Guild Bank - raid and quit

WilliamTee

I'm sure many will say this is our own stupid fault.

Myself and a few others had a small guild for the extra storage space and to easily share spare loot.

One guy had been offline for a few weeks... Maybe he'd quit, maybe he had personal stuff going on, so thought we'd leave him put.

Needless to say, weeks into the game the bank was looking fairly full. Nothing astounding, truly nice bits and pieces we kept in our own banks, but lots of nice set pieces or spare epics and crafting materials.

I'm sure you all know what comes next.

The wanderer returned during the dead of night, took as much as he could from the guild bank, and immediately quit the guild. Cringefully, i still have him on my friends list.

My question for discussion therefore:

Is this/should there be anything you can do about this?

Mablung

Nothing you can do. You should have removed him from the guild and sent him a nice email stating he was welcome back once he returned. I personally would have given him 5 days, maybe less especially if he was just some random invite and not someone I had a gaming history with.

Sleepydan

The only thing to do is have people you have not vetted or otherwise trust not have build bank access and have to ask you or those you do trust to remove items for them.

That is a before you get robbed choice, not an after though.

WilliamTee

Hmm, I worry you're probably correct. Some games do take action against things like this, but i spose their are much bigger fish to fry right now

AlexDougherty

If someone isn't active in the guild for a couple of weeks, remove guild bank access from them, the chances are they aren't gelling with the rest of the guild, and will do something nasty before leaving.

If it turns out he was elsewhere for reasonable reasons, then restore his access, but make sure he is getting on with at least some members, and these are not in a cliche of their own (ie a guild within a guild).

WilliamTee

But then there's also the question of should people be able to do things like this?

AlexDougherty

WilliamTee wrote: »

But then there's also the question of should people be able to do things like this?

Well not to put too fine a point on it, how is the game supposed to know the difference between some accessing the guild bank normally, and accessing it before a rage quit.

Even we can't really tell the difference until after the fact.

Fuzzylumpkins

add me in game WilliamTee
@‌ fuzzylumpkins2005
Im not greedy, have tons of effing mats and gear to pop in that bank to help you rebuild. Can drop one of my trade guilds. Not everyone is raised an entitled d-bag. The most recent generation of gamers is an awful one. Being raised on internet access gives you no respect for who is on the other end of it. To this guy you were just anonymous virtual people that put in no time gather/storing items.

It is a shame but it is a vast majority of the target audience for this product.


Does anyone remember when we were told we would have instanced servers and guilds that automatically allowed us to opt out of playing with players under/over specific ages ? Not that this player was one of the cowardly kids that ninjas and bails.

zgrssd

WilliamTee wrote: »

But then there's also the question of should people be able to do things like this?

You gave him the right too.
You could have easily kicked him out or removed his G-bank access temporarily.
You choose not too.
If you leave your Pin and Bank card lying around, you are fully liable if someone grabs it and cleans our your bank account. And you did just do the ESO equivalent of that.

It might constitute a Griefing action (wich are against the TOS) and it should be reported as such. Maybe it has some effect. Maybe not.

WilliamTee

Hmm... perhaps I should have phrased it as 'get away with'.

Yes, if i left my pin and card lying around i would get fudged... But i'd also get my money back once i proved it wasn't me, and if the whoever who took it left his name on every withdrawal they'd be the one in trouble in the end...

I'm asking, should you be able to ask for justice?

WilliamTee

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

add me in game WilliamTee
@‌ fuzzylumpkins2005
Im not greedy, have tons of effing mats and gear to pop in that bank to help you rebuild. Can drop one of my trade guilds. Not everyone is raised an entitled d-bag. The most recent generation of gamers is an awful one. Being raised on internet access gives you no respect for who is on the other end of it. To this guy you were just anonymous virtual people that put in no time gather/storing items.

It is a shame but it is a vast majority of the target audience for this product.


Does anyone remember when we were told we would have instanced servers and guilds that automatically allowed us to opt out of playing with players under/over specific ages ? Not that this player was one of the cowardly kids that ninjas and bails.

Cheers dude, great to see some humanity online still

Truthfully, we'll cope. It was a lot of spare things really. Wonderful stuff for alts or future members, we were sharing it rather than selling it is all.

AlexDougherty

WilliamTee wrote: »

Hmm... perhaps I should have phrased it as 'get away with'.

Yes, if i left my pin and card lying around i would get fudged... But i'd also get my money back once i proved it wasn't me, and if the whoever who took it left his name on every withdrawal they'd be the one in trouble in the end...

I'm asking, should you be able to ask for justice?

You can ask for justice, might not get it, but you can report the player, if you have the character name.

As for getting your money back, it depends what country you're in, in some countries you don't.

WilliamTee

Well, most frustratingly, i still have him on my friends list

I've asked him for our stuff back. Perhaps I'm a bit too naive

ThisOnePosts

AlexDougherty wrote: »

If someone isn't active in the guild for a couple of weeks, remove guild bank access from them, the chances are they aren't gelling with the rest of the guild, and will do something nasty before leaving.

If it turns out he was elsewhere for reasonable reasons, then restore his access, but make sure he is getting on with at least some members, and these are not in a cliche of their own (ie a guild within a guild).

I agree. I have a guild with some friends as well and only those that I trust to keep any items in there. However, you will never see me putting anything that's really expensive in there regardless, that's what my personal bank is for.

Also to the OP: You and your guildmates, try submitting tickets and see if you can have anything done about it. They can trace who did what when and where, so maybe they will be able to help you.

Custos91

If somebody is offline, write him a mail, take his rights, if he comes back, he can contact you to get his rights back, easy as that

Singular

WilliamTee wrote: »

Well, most frustratingly, i still have him on my friends list

I've asked him for our stuff back. Perhaps I'm a bit too naive

I would have asked him why he did that. But he's likely put you on ignore now.

Anyways, you're not getting that back. Sorry. I started a guild, the one in my sig, with the intentions of allowing everyone access to the guild bank - I had this utopian idea that we'd all forage and drop off whatever we didn't need in the back for our crafters.

Well...someone robbed us, dropped the guild, and one of my officers asked me to change withdraw options from the bank to officers and above only. That person only took a nice set, not the entire bank, but there's no way to get that back from them. After all, they had permission to do just that.

The nastiness is when they subsequently drop the guild - making it obvious they just wanted the stuff.

When someone steals your entire guild bank, you have to wonder if they're gold farmers. A lot of those people join up just for that reason - to rob banks. I'm in a few guilds that give permission from the lowest levels. Sure that some people will pilfer that!

Yam_of_the_Center

It was indeed partly your own stupid fault, WilliamTee, but regardless of "could have...", "should have...", or "would have..." the vast majority of the blame lies with the person that did it. Each and every one of us could go out right now and do utterly horrible things to our family, friends, and neighbors, and if we did these things we as individuals would be to blame because that choice was made and the action taken, not because our victims didn't have enough locks or booby traps or know well enough to live far away on a desert island. Someone can have the key to your house and if he comes and burgles it he's still the one that broke the law and the one to blame.

As far as this situation, if nothing comes of talking to the person about it then as AlexDougherty and ViciousWayz have suggested you can always report him. The worst that can happen is nothing at all and it'll just stay as it is now.

bFunk

The comparison to burglary simply doesn't stick. You gave access to a guild bank where members are free to put and take items as they please. In this case this person took items as he pleased. Although from the OP he did not contribute to the bank's items, a friendly request towards the particular person to return any valuable items is all you can hope for.

Imho this does not fall under any scamming or other such scheme, so I'd wonder if Zenimax would do anything about it even if many mouths started shouting (submitting tickets), which in the real world tends to work really well.

zgrssd

Yam_of_the_Center wrote: »

It was indeed partly your own stupid fault, WilliamTee, but regardless of "could have...", "should have...", or "would have..." the vast majority of the blame lies with the person that did it. Each and every one of us could go out right now and do utterly horrible things to our family, friends, and neighbors, and if we did these things we as individuals would be to blame because that choice was made and the action taken, not because our victims didn't have enough locks or booby traps or know well enough to live far away on a desert island. Someone can have the key to your house and if he comes and burgles it he's still the one that broke the law and the one to blame.

All of those examples violate the laws of our world.
You can be an ***, as long as you don't break any of the laws.

Now if you are a *** towards while breaking the laws, I will use every legal way to get retirbution. And I can be an *** about you being an *** to me

Yam_of_the_Center wrote: »

As far as this situation, if nothing comes of talking to the person about it then as AlexDougherty and ViciousWayz have suggested you can always report him. The worst that can happen is nothing at all and it'll just stay as it is now.

We already asserted that his behavior was against the common rules of behavior.
The only question is if it was against the Laws of the game too. Here they are, 1's on 0's:
http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us
You can start a Trial at the local Court (Zenimax) simply by using the Report player function. That was your right and his risk all along.

You have the rules to protect you. You have your own liabilities. And you have the tools to demand your rights.

zeuseason

WilliamTee wrote: »

But then there's also the question of should people be able to do things like this?

Yes. There shouldn't be any in-game mechanics to prevent outside of what you set your own guild controls to.

gladen5rwb17_ESO

Personally I think the entire banking system needs an overhaul. The lack of bank options is the problem.

phaneub17_ESO

It's weird when other MMO's have been out so long that some of the the features which have become standard options aren't included with ESO at launch. Bank withdrawal limits and tiered banks (100 slots to lowest rank, 100 for members, 100 for officers, etc) being a couple of the norm.

theyancey

Sucks but that horse has left the stable. Personally anytime I take something from a guild bank I try to leave at least as much other stuff in return. One of my guilds doesn't even let anyone but officers have withdraw rights. I tend not to deposit as much in that one though. Maybe just some stale radishes. LOL.

Dayel

I almost always deposit more then I take in a guild's bank. However, I will confess if a guild does not allow me to withdraw I tend to only give them the "stale bread" kind of items and put my real effort in the guild store. It's a two way street, because trying to chase down an officer and coordinate withdrawals is simply too much trouble.

In a word, I am not willing to suffer because of the actions of thieves.

Fuzzylumpkins

zgrssd wrote: »

WilliamTee wrote: »

But then there's also the question of should people be able to do things like this?

You gave him the right too.
You could have easily kicked him out or removed his G-bank access temporarily.
You choose not too.
If you leave your Pin and Bank card lying around, you are fully liable if someone grabs it and cleans our your bank account. And you did just do the ESO equivalent of that.

It might constitute a Griefing action (wich are against the TOS) and it should be reported as such. Maybe it has some effect. Maybe not.

Stealing is not a right it is an ability. The player was given the ability to act right or wrong and used his ability to steal. You probably think driving a car is a right as well. It is a privilege not a right. Some just chose to abuse it like this player did.

We cannot stop ignorance but we can continue to fight it.

Arsenic_Touch

Hopefully zenimax will see that their current system needs a complete overhaul to prevent things like this from happening again.... I made a funny! Who am I kidding, this has been a hot topic for a while (bank permissions and options) and we haven't heard squat from them about it.

LadyDestiny

WilliamTee wrote: »

Well, most frustratingly, i still have him on my friends list

I've asked him for our stuff back. Perhaps I'm a bit too naive

Hope his username was not something like "jkfghradgjnfn....lol j/k. Makes me wonder how many of these gold sellers would do this just to make some gold. Sorry this happened, but I noticed you are not the only one that recently had this happen in their guild. Unfortunately there are players that have no conscience or respect for other people and their generosity.

Thechemicals

The rules on gbanks are pretty clear. You made a mistake.

Yam_of_the_Center

bFunk wrote: »

The comparison to burglary simply doesn't stick. You gave access to a guild bank where members are free to put and take items as they please. In this case this person took items as he pleased.

In pure game terms, no. It's more like the roommate that was told, "what's mine is yours!", and then after mysteriously disappearing for a few weeks the roommate snuck back into the house and made that statement all too true. I also don't care, I'd still call the cops. Actually I'd hunt him down myself, but that's rather pointless in Tamriel as there's no friendly fire.

zgrssd wrote: »

All of those examples violate the laws of our world.
You can be an ---, as long as you don't break any of the laws.

Well, sure, but also examples of... I don't know, let's call it "ethical accountability", and sometimes being an --- and breaking the laws overlap. I may think of a victim, "you idiot, it's your own fault, what did you expect!" but I still don't ultimately blame the victim for it, it's the guy that was an ---.

zgrssd wrote: »

We already asserted that his behavior was against the common rules of behavior.
The only question is if it was against the Laws of the game too. Here they are, 1's on 0's: http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us
You can start a Trial at the local Court (Zenimax) simply by using the Report player function. That was your right and his risk all along.
You have the rules to protect you. You have your own liabilities. And you have the tools to demand your rights.

Indeed it's so, and I came and agreed and said it some more. The "game laws" question is what matters in this case, and Zenimax is the final arbiter. So... we're saying the same thing.

Ooohhhh, I see what it was, you suggested it first but I only mentioned the other two! Well, here you are: WilliamTee, if it comes down to it, do as zgrssd suggests and report it is griefing! hahahhah

Ultimately, personally I wouldn't report it because I don't really care much about items and getting involved with the whole reporting thing sounds like a bother. My only real points were that regardless of circumstance the guy that did it is the one that did it and therefore the one to blame and that the worst that can come of reporting it should WilliamTee choose to is the status quo.

Woolenthreads

There are always scum who pull this kinda rubbish. Ask any players from any other MMO and they'll likely be able to name incidents where things like this, or worse have happened. I remember that in Eve the most "celebrated" one several years back happened when Goonswarm convinced an Alliance Director of "Band of Brothers" to turn his coat. I wouldn't call that particular Guy, "scum". though, BoB and GS were at war so it was regarded as a legitimate intelligence warfare tactic.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

WilliamTee wrote: »

I'm sure many will say this is our own stupid fault.

Myself and a few others had a small guild for the extra storage space and to easily share spare loot.

One guy had been offline for a few weeks... Maybe he'd quit, maybe he had personal stuff going on, so thought we'd leave him put.

Needless to say, weeks into the game the bank was looking fairly full. Nothing astounding, truly nice bits and pieces we kept in our own banks, but lots of nice set pieces or spare epics and crafting materials.

I'm sure you all know what comes next.

The wanderer returned during the dead of night, took as much as he could from the guild bank, and immediately quit the guild. Cringefully, i still have him on my friends list.

My question for discussion therefore:

Is this/should there be anything you can do about this?

should have set the bank access so that he should not have had access
I will point out we had a similar issue in Rift with the guy actually changing servers after his theft. CS returned all the items to us and banned his account. Perhaps CS will help here