Maintenance for the week of October 5:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – October 8, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – October 8, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
Does Entropy Rising Get Special Treatment?
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AinGeal✭✭✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph. -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph.
Reading books is one thing. Reading them typed on a forum is another. -
cjmarsh725b14_ESO✭✭✭✭/sigh
You can just use abilities yourself and count how much ultimate you get and notice you stop earning Ultimate once you've earned 15... *just like we did*
Then you notice that there are some aberrant abilities that don't conform to that limit and let ZoS know... *just like we did*
You're welcome btw.
Well I suppose you get points for helping out the community. And lost them all for being a patronizing jerk about it. Makes me feel great that you're the representative we have for the 'hardcore feedback' the developers are getting, and seemingly a source of information the community has to rely on. -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph.
true but if at first glance it looks like a massive rant i'm less tempted to read it. if its a page in an engaging story that just happens to have no dialogue or logical place to put paragraphs its much easier to deal with
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph.
true but if at first glance it looks like a massive rant i'm less tempted to read it. if its a page in an engaging story that just happens to have no dialogue or logical place to put paragraphs its much easier to deal with
The post is completely off topic. He is ranting about how we all should sing and be merry and then finishes with his suggestion to things needing fixed. Nothing to do with ER or the OPs post. -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph.
true but if at first glance it looks like a massive rant i'm less tempted to read it. if its a page in an engaging story that just happens to have no dialogue or logical place to put paragraphs its much easier to deal with
The post is completely off topic. He is ranting about how we all should sing and be merry and then finishes with his suggestion to things needing fixed. Nothing to do with ER or the OPs post.
yes i figured as much when skimming it. maybe he put that together as a generic rant to be cut and pasted into every thread
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
Serious people, L2Read. It's as if you've never opened a novel and had pages that consistent of nothing but one giant paragraph.
true but if at first glance it looks like a massive rant i'm less tempted to read it. if its a page in an engaging story that just happens to have no dialogue or logical place to put paragraphs its much easier to deal with
The post is completely off topic. He is ranting about how we all should sing and be merry and then finishes with his suggestion to things needing fixed. Nothing to do with ER or the OPs post.
yes i figured as much when skimming it. maybe he put that together as a generic rant to be cut and pasted into every thread
Which is what he frequently does.
Sorry for the derail, back to yelling at each other about the injustice ZOS delivers and their favoritism with a handful of guilds specifically ER. -
snipped wall of text
To break down and make what you said simpler:
1/ You think everyone here who gives a negative opinion regardless of being constructive or not shouldn't be listened to.
2/ You think people here shouldn't have the right to complain or ask more more information on changes, and that people here are only interested in getting/keeping their abilities buffed.
3/ You think all feedback here is worthless and you feel guilds are the only ones that should give it.
4/ Your fourth load of paragraphs are just another "if you don't like the way it is GTFO" kneejerk response.
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Mortosk✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese."Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King) -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an official manner, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.Edited by Mablung on June 14, 2014 4:12AM -
Mystborn✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
The knowledge I have about the game that gives me an advantage is knowledge I spent dozens, or hundreds of hours accumulating, testing, and then more time making videos to share that knowledge with other players.
We do all pay the same purchase/subscription and we all receive the same agreed upon service in exchange. Any discussion we have exists outside of that payment for service agreement. -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
The knowledge I have about the game that gives me an advantage is knowledge I spent dozens, or hundreds of hours accumulating, testing, and then more time making videos to share that knowledge with other players.
We do all pay the same purchase/subscription and we all receive the same agreed upon service in exchange. Any discussion we have exists outside of that payment for service agreement.
And this is the heart of the problem. Accepting what has allegedly taken place as something that does not impact the community or you as a gamer who has invested lots of your money and time. We should not turn a blind eye for the sake of avoiding conflict or because discussions about the game fall outside of some payment agreement. Honestly, lack of communication has been a big issue for a lot of people on the forums since day one and this revelation is just icing on the cake.
I applaud you in your efforts to test and share knowledge. Ideally everyone wants exactly that who is involved in the community. With this concept privileged information should not exist.
I know the next phase of the argument is the game and its development belong to ZOS and they can do with it what they want, including information sharing. Fair enough but by excluding the majority of their player base when sharing information with select guilds they will ultimately hurt their bottom line and potentially sabotage their own game.Edited by Mablung on June 14, 2014 4:11AM -
Mortosk✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
Well, I agree they shouldn't be given knowledge that isn't freely available. That's a big no-no, and provides an unfair advantage to those they divulge it to. But, it sounded more like the ER guys figured out on their own and asked the devs to clarify if they were right or not, and maybe they shouldn't have let that information slip. But, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it probably wasn't intentional. Doubt they will ever do it again though after this thread.
One of the differences between WoW and this game is with WoW everything was out there. There were huge resources from various fan sites with datamined information about how each and every skill worked, they had theory crafting calculators, and sites like elitist jerks that went pretty hard core into the math, and the patch notes were extremely detailed and concise. Questions were answered on the forums fairly regularly and usually a clear definition was given about how something worked.
Seems the specifics of this game is a bit obfuscated. Their patch notes are extremely vague and confusing at times. Sometimes, even wrong. Furthermore, they also do not seem to have the staff needed to address issues that come up on the forum. I think perhaps they view the forums as mostly noise, and in order to filter through that, given their limited budget for community managers/ESO dev posters, they talk to the top guilds to get a more filtered version of what is wrong. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that seems to be what is happening.
I mean, for crying out loud, we didn't even know Zenimax knew Templars were a complete joke of a class until tonight when Jessica mentioned in passing that she discusses these same topics with ER that she reads on the forums, and listed "Templars" as one of those topics. That was literally the first thing anyone has posted about Templars in over 2 weeks. The last thing was an inaccurate explanation of a nerf that wasn't even documented in the original patch notes.
"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King) -
Kingslayer✭✭✭Regardless The community team going to speak to certain guilds only and sharing info with them has the rest of the population wondering. As i said before transparency here sucks. Its like trying to get info out of the US government in fact i'd say that is easier. Open up the game start showing details you have previously hidden from us. The social side of this game blows to there is little to no reason to assimilate with anyone.
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
Well, I agree they shouldn't be given knowledge that isn't freely available. That's a big no-no, and provides an unfair advantage to those they divulge it to. But, it sounded more like the ER guys figured out on their own and asked the devs to clarify if they were right or not, and maybe they shouldn't have let that information slip. But, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it probably wasn't intentional. Doubt they will ever do it again though after this thread.
One of the differences between WoW and this game is with WoW everything was out there. There were huge resources from various fan sites with datamined information about how each and every skill worked, they had theory crafting calculators, and sites like elitist jerks that went pretty hard core into the math, and the patch notes were extremely detailed and concise. Questions were answered on the forums fairly regularly and usually a clear definition was given about how something worked.
Seems the specifics of this game is a bit obfuscated. Their patch notes are extremely vague and confusing at times. Sometimes, even wrong. Furthermore, they also do not seem to have the staff needed to address issues that come up on the forum. I think perhaps they view the forums as mostly noise, and in order to filter through that, given their limited budget for community managers/ESO dev posters, they talk to the top guilds to get a more filtered version of what is wrong. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that seems to be what is happening.
I mean, for crying out loud, we didn't even know Zenimax knew Templars were a complete joke of a class until tonight when Jessica mentioned in passing that she discusses these same topics with ER that she reads on the forums, and listed "Templars" as one of those topics. That was literally the first thing anyone has posted about Templars in over 2 weeks. The last thing was an inaccurate explanation of a nerf that wasn't even documented in the original patch notes.
Exactly. The point is communication and the perception that someone or a group of someones has more information over me, the gamer, than they should. I believe this is why we see the min/maxers and other elitist types. This is why they rush to endgame, so they can report back and garner more nuggets for themselves and keep secret other 'features' they have discovered.
It creates an unfair gaming environment for the rest of us. It does not require us to look back very far and see the 'fixes' with Craglorn AA, Vamps and the sudden change in the terminology in regards to repairing nightblades to fully understand something is changing in the developers thought process and it is not being influenced by anything stated on the official forums.Edited by Mablung on June 14, 2014 4:17AM -
leave ER alone, they have done a great job for both Zeni and the Community and invested alot of UNPAID time in testing....
blame Zeni ....
ER made so much suggestions that would improve the game, but none/near to non was realised
Edited by andreas.rudroffb16_ESO on June 14, 2014 4:17AM -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »leave ER alone, they have done a great job for both Zeni and the Community and invested alot of UNPAID time in testing....
blame Zeni ....
ER made so much suggestions that would improve the game, but none/near to non was realised
I do not think anyone here is blaming ER, at least that is not what I have gathered. I completely agree that the fault lies solely with ZOS. -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
The knowledge I have about the game that gives me an advantage is knowledge I spent dozens, or hundreds of hours accumulating, testing, and then more time making videos to share that knowledge with other players.
We do all pay the same purchase/subscription and we all receive the same agreed upon service in exchange. Any discussion we have exists outside of that payment for service agreement.
And this is the heart of the problem. Accepting what has allegedly taken place as something that does not impact the community or you as a gamer invested with lots of your money and time. We should not turn a blind eye for the sake of avoiding conflict. Honestly, lack of communication has been a big issue for a lot of people on the forums since day one and this revelation is just icing on the cake.
I applaud you in your efforts to test and share knowledge. Ideally everyone wants exactly that who is involved in the community. With this concept privileged information should not exist.
I know the next phase of the argument is the game and its development belong to ZOS and they can do with it what they want, including information sharing. Fair enough but by excluding the majority of their player base when sharing information with select guilds they will ultimately hurt their bottom line and potentially sabotage their own game.
Actually, the issue is that you have this perceived injustice based on an incorrect assumption. I don't know why you are under the impression that the members of ER have some secret repository of knowledge regarding the mechanics of the game. Mystborn has stated in this thread and demonstrated through numerous videos that the information that he has gained has been through intensive testing.
You're using a single, specific example to try to blow everything out of proportion. The example that you're using regarding proc rates is a perfect example of the types of issues that used to be tested and discussed during PTS. It has nothing to do with the developers hand picking who, and who doesn't have access to information.
I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question about what people propose the community managers do in the future. If they're already sourcing this forum, mmorpg, TF, reddit, facebook, twitter, PvP guilds, PvE guilds, RP guilds, casual guilds, crafting guilds, etc., what would make you happy?
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
The knowledge I have about the game that gives me an advantage is knowledge I spent dozens, or hundreds of hours accumulating, testing, and then more time making videos to share that knowledge with other players.
We do all pay the same purchase/subscription and we all receive the same agreed upon service in exchange. Any discussion we have exists outside of that payment for service agreement.
And this is the heart of the problem. Accepting what has allegedly taken place as something that does not impact the community or you as a gamer invested with lots of your money and time. We should not turn a blind eye for the sake of avoiding conflict. Honestly, lack of communication has been a big issue for a lot of people on the forums since day one and this revelation is just icing on the cake.
I applaud you in your efforts to test and share knowledge. Ideally everyone wants exactly that who is involved in the community. With this concept privileged information should not exist.
I know the next phase of the argument is the game and its development belong to ZOS and they can do with it what they want, including information sharing. Fair enough but by excluding the majority of their player base when sharing information with select guilds they will ultimately hurt their bottom line and potentially sabotage their own game.
Actually, the issue is that you have this perceived injustice based on an incorrect assumption. I don't know why you are under the impression that the members of ER have some secret repository of knowledge regarding the mechanics of the game. Mystborn has stated in this thread and demonstrated through numerous videos that the information that he has gained has been through intensive testing.
You're using a single, specific example to try to blow everything out of proportion. The example that you're using regarding proc rates is a perfect example of the types of issues that used to be tested and discussed during PTS. It has nothing to do with the developers hand picking who, and who doesn't have access to information.
I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question about what people propose the community managers do in the future. If they're already sourcing this forum, mmorpg, TF, reddit, facebook, twitter, PvP guilds, PvE guilds, RP guilds, casual guilds, crafting guilds, etc., what would make you happy?
I am not targeting ER. It is the principle of the matter. Sharing of any information game related that is not shared with the community has a perception of deception associated with it. This in turn leads to the idea that others have an unfair advantage over the rest of the community who does not have that information, perceived or otherwise.
Sharing of information or communicating with the community is not something these developers have done. There lies the root of the problem and has been one of the main issues brought up time and time again on these forums.
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Kingslayer✭✭✭Doctoruniverse wrote: »I agree with Mablung, ZOS conduct has been shameful in this instance.
And trying to save it now only makes it worse.
Honestly, guys. This is nothing new. WoW devs have talked to the top guilds like Paragon, Vodka, and Blood Legion outside of the forums. They did the same thing in FFXIV:ARR, except in Japanese.
You are missing the point. No one is saying that is not fine to speak with guilds, sharing of information is the issue. They have knowledge about the game that could possibly give them an advantage over the rest of the community. Without sharing that information in an officially, the elitist guilds will continue to have more say than your average gamer. We all pay the same at purchase and in subscription. Their voice should be no louder than anyone else.
The knowledge I have about the game that gives me an advantage is knowledge I spent dozens, or hundreds of hours accumulating, testing, and then more time making videos to share that knowledge with other players.
We do all pay the same purchase/subscription and we all receive the same agreed upon service in exchange. Any discussion we have exists outside of that payment for service agreement.
And this is the heart of the problem. Accepting what has allegedly taken place as something that does not impact the community or you as a gamer invested with lots of your money and time. We should not turn a blind eye for the sake of avoiding conflict. Honestly, lack of communication has been a big issue for a lot of people on the forums since day one and this revelation is just icing on the cake.
I applaud you in your efforts to test and share knowledge. Ideally everyone wants exactly that who is involved in the community. With this concept privileged information should not exist.
I know the next phase of the argument is the game and its development belong to ZOS and they can do with it what they want, including information sharing. Fair enough but by excluding the majority of their player base when sharing information with select guilds they will ultimately hurt their bottom line and potentially sabotage their own game.
Actually, the issue is that you have this perceived injustice based on an incorrect assumption. I don't know why you are under the impression that the members of ER have some secret repository of knowledge regarding the mechanics of the game. Mystborn has stated in this thread and demonstrated through numerous videos that the information that he has gained has been through intensive testing.
You're using a single, specific example to try to blow everything out of proportion. The example that you're using regarding proc rates is a perfect example of the types of issues that used to be tested and discussed during PTS. It has nothing to do with the developers hand picking who, and who doesn't have access to information.
I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question about what people propose the community managers do in the future. If they're already sourcing this forum, mmorpg, TF, reddit, facebook, twitter, PvP guilds, PvE guilds, RP guilds, casual guilds, crafting guilds, etc., what would make you happy?
I can see where these people are coming from i too am wondering what could of been spoken about with regards to classes. when its been done where no one hears it. obviously their will be rumor and at the end of the day we are customers. And as customers we should have the same time with the zos team as others do. I myself don't have an issue but i can full well see the issue. I found a new home to waste my hours gaming will most likely come back when their is something to come back to. Grinding with no progression barely in the vr levels gets repetitive. -
Aenthel✭✭✭IF, through some miracle, any of those guilds you picked are actually representing the majority of the population, I'd definitely not mind, however I highly doubt that you guys would seriously, still continue to actually talk to them if they were truly expressing their real opinions, about stuff that is wrong. I'm pretty sure you would ignore them, just like you ignore these forums you got here.
So what we got here is, lets see... some Zeni Staff actually admitting that they bypass the actual majority but instead talk to a couple guild members. And then they admit they keep hearing these problems, as they call it, which has been going on since the beta, but they don't give a flying **** and instead they keep breaking more things.
I'm not sure if I should be happy that they are still doing as they please and not listening to those guild members... or should be sad that they are not listening to anyone at all, going headlong and ruining this game...
EDIT: If you truly want to know how to communicate, go check those Marvel Heroes forums, sure, maybe its a small game and all, but hell even the DEVs are actually participating in the ACTUAL forums, taking feedbacks on balances and on things they screwed up, they actually fix it.Edited by Aenthel on June 14, 2014 4:52AM -
Kingslayer✭✭✭IF, through some miracle, any of those guilds you picked are actually representing the majority of the population, I'd definitely not mind, however I highly doubt that you guys would seriously, still continue to actually talk to them if they were truly expressing their real opinions, about stuff that is wrong. I'm pretty sure you would ignore them, just like you ignore these forums you got here.
So what we got here is, lets see... some Zeni Staff actually admitting that they bypass the actual majority but instead talk to a couple guild members. And then they admit they keep hearing these problems, as they call it, which has been going on since the beta, but they don't give a flying **** and instead they keep breaking more things.
I'm not sure if I should be happy that they are still doing as they please and not listening to those guild members... or should be sad that they are not listening to anyone at all, going headlong and ruining this game...
Yep that very same small minority which also got ignored when they complained about the API being locked for a lot of reasons.
I would still love to know which genius PTS testing guild complained about name plates etc.
Its obvious the name plates are gone for the console but Zos won't even let us have an add on for it just for the pc.
No wonder eso is going the way of the dodo bird, i really wish it wasn't so i had big hopes and still like lots about it.
EDIT Just seen your Edit, Go check out the wildstar forums on the dev tracker i hate that game but you only need to read a page or two to be able to tell the difference. zos needs to take a page from other companies customer service manuals if you ask me.Edited by Kingslayer on June 14, 2014 4:55AM -
Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭My only concern with favoring specific guilds for feedback is that you miss out on many knowledgeable and experienced players who prefer soloing/pugging. Your guild affiliation is a poor measure of your overall skill and contributions as an individual player.
For instance, ER (nothing personal to them) prefers grouping for most of their pvp, and as a primarily solo pvp'er I would be suspicious of opinions that make sense for large groups but less sense for us loners.
ZOS could benefit just as much (if not far more) by reaching out to individual players who have personally demonstrated aptitude towards this game.Edited by Vis on June 14, 2014 5:06AMv14 Sorc Vae Exillis
v14 DK Costs
v14 NB 'Vis
v14 Temp Fiat Lux -
Kingslayer✭✭✭My only concern with favoring specific guilds for feedback is that you miss out on many knowledgeable and experienced players who prefer soloing/pugging. Your guild affiliation is a poor measure of your overall skill and contributions as an individual player.
For instance, ER (nothing personal to them) prefers grouping for most of their pvp, and as a primarily solo pvp'er I would be suspicious of opinions that make sense for large groups but less sense for us loners.
ZOS could benefit just as much (if not far more) by reaching out to individual players who have personally demonstrated aptitude towards this game.
Alright Vis no need to pimp yourself out now :P lol -
Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭But on a side note: this really is a "dammed if you do dammed if you don't" situation for ZOS.
I appreciate their team is so dedicated as to reach out to players on their own time and with the unfiltered medium of voice chat. That is rare and is to be respected (even if it is only to a select few).
Much love to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, who must have some truly amazing armor to survive all the forum rage. You could not pay me enough to read everyone's comments and expect me to answer nicely, and she has disarmed my nerd rage more than once.
If any of you want to experience what true dev neglect feels like, I suggest looking at the LOTRO forums.Edited by Vis on June 14, 2014 5:45AMv14 Sorc Vae Exillis
v14 DK Costs
v14 NB 'Vis
v14 Temp Fiat Lux -
BadgerRider1✭✭✭I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question about what people propose the community managers do in the future.
I believe that community managers should begin by recognizing that no particular play style, be it min/max, event first achievers, trial time besters, crafters, solo or groupers qualifies anyone as being "special" or deserving of any consideration whatsoever over another.
The only thing that qualifies any of us as "special", at least from a (successful) business standpoint is the fact that we spend money each month in order to play. All of us should be treated accordingly and equally.
This would mean no access to any company person not available to any other and especially no information of any kind that is not also available to everyone else. Always.
While it may be true that certain proclivities of individuals would be of more interest or help to some players (builds, rotation, gear, etc.), it is not the work that should be applauded by the community, but rather, the willingness to share and help others. The only payback should come from the thankfulness of their peers in the community, and never, in any form, from the company.
While I like that ZO mines data from many different sources, I believe it is a mistake to list those other sources by name. Perception is reality, and no source outside of their own official forums should ever be perceived as having even an equal input on how they design the game.
The job of a community manager is no doubt a difficult one. It is, after all, their job to wade through the emotion and identify the root causes that keep their game from achieving its potential.
Once identified and passed on to the dev's, their responsibility shifts from data collection to informational liason. The most important thing they can do for any of us is to keep us informed. Even if that information is sometimes dissapointing. Having an answer that you may not particularly like is not nearly as bad as having no answer at all.
Any answer though, must be given to all of us and not some of us, no matter how special those accustomed to receiving those answers feel that they are.
They also need to gauge the breadth and scope of a particular issue. Plainly, some issues are quite beyond the community managers ability to explain. In these cases, as the information liason to the entire community, I look to them to do whatever it takes to drag the responsible dev into this forum and have him/her explain the whys and wherefores of the issue at hand. If they have to pull em by the ear or jump on their desk, who cares? If it needs to be done, do it. This game sorely needs more communication directly from those who do the design/developing.
As to what they should not do, I'll refer the reader back to the numerous previous posts. It should be abundantly clear.
Now, while I have enjoyed reading every (well almost every, there was one......) post so far, there was one that I found disturbing and that was the official post from Jessica, where she stated that many community managers do reading (work) on their own time.
I have spent decades in the corporate world, for one of the worlds most recognized corporations. My immediate family members include many other career corporate members, including CEO's of multi-billion dollar companies, so I am very familiar with the culture and how it seems to value the work over all else "commitment" of a "team-player".
My advice is don't do it.
Take the time away from work to decompress and unwind. Your work will be better for it. You probably won't get to be CEO that way, but your quality of life will be much, much better.
No matter how much of your life you sacrifice, they will never build a statue of you in front of corporate headquarters. Even if they did, it would just be another place for the pigeons to poop!
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Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭^Holy Mother of Long-Winded Responses
Though I agree with you that it would be nice to read more:
"I see you're all upset. I acknowledge you exist. We're aware of it and have plans."Edited by Vis on June 14, 2014 6:06AMv14 Sorc Vae Exillis
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Evandus✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »Game development is not a democracy, so of course the devs of eso take their advice from whomever they want, if im not mistaken, ER didnt want the Bolt Escape nerf, good thing the Devs got brains enough themselves to understand thats a totally biased point of view.
Yeah, about that... ER publicly and vocally opposed the previous implementation of BE for a long time.
But, I don't think BE ever came up in feedback session though.
Wasn't the discussion regarding Bolt Escape on Tamriel Foundy centered on whether or not BE should be able to be used to transport Elder Scrolls?
At least, before all the trolling started in there.
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Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭All this talk reminds me of one of the worst ideas ever implemented by any MMO: Lotro's Player Council.
Want to increase the overall toxicity of your community? Want to create a breeding ground for conspiracy theories? "Randomly" pick a handful of player applicants who will form a Council to "distill" all the forum feedback for the developers.
So no matter what ZOS is doing, aways remember they could be doing something so much worse.Edited by Vis on June 14, 2014 6:24AMv14 Sorc Vae Exillis
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Evandus✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi folks,
Wanted to pop in here and offer some clarification. The Community Team does indeed participate in regular voice chats with some of our most active guilds. The guilds we're currently in regular talks with are a good mix of PvP, PvE, and casual. In addition to reading the forums and fansites, this helps us to better understand what the main issues are and their severity, where the best opportunities for improvement are, and identify what everyone wants more details on. More often than not, we hear the same things over and over (such as Templars, weapons skills/stamina builds, and heavy armor needing improvements and in some case fixes, changes needed to make PvP more rewarding, etc.)
These talks do not replace or hold more value to us than what we read here on our official forums, and are often done in the late evening on our own time. It adds another layer of valuable insight, and gives us the opportunity to ask about things in-person that we need clarification or more details on.
All that said, we are doing what we can, when we can, to get in here and answer your questions more often.
This is PR propaganda. The fish is out of the bag and outside of beta testing there is absolutely no reason to take a select fews advice over the communities. None.
How does speaking to a select few translate into everyone?
How does talking to those select few NOT hold more value when you obviously have dialogue with them yet do not have that same interaction with the community on these forums?
In my opinon, this argument loses it's potency when one considers that the CS folks are reading and responding (granted not often enough), on the official forums as well. It's been stated that some of these intereactions even take place outside of the time table of the workday.
There is no speaking to a select few. It's wholly unreasonable to expect CS to respond individually to every player. This is why targeting select demographics, like guilds, provides needed perspective in additon to reading/responding on the official forums.
People being willing to work unpaid and on their offtime to gather information needed to improve the game experience should be appluaded. Taking it as a slight and responding as such becomes questionable.