Bolt Escape Versus Gap Closers

Grimbim

NordJitsu wrote: »

The only thing this nerf has done is punish people who use Bolt Escape (either morph) in active combat. People who use Streak for damage and CC get punished. Tanks who use Ball of Lightning for the absorption (since we don't get Reflective Scales or Eclipse) get punished.

They've hurt anyone who uses this ability except for the people they ought to have been targeting.

A better change would be to remove both casting penalties for Streak, keep only the Magicka regen debuff for Ball of Lightning (since there is a lingering effect which usually hurts your magicka pool ala Mage Light), increase the damage of Streak (to encourage people to pick this morph and to use it for damage rather than just running), and make casting Bolt Escape remove CC-immunity from any source so that enemy players would always have easy counter-play options.

Exactly!
I still wonder why most people don't want to understand that this nerf has affected the wrong target. You still can escape spamming BE, but the offensive use of this ability has been strongly restricted. And that is what most sorcerers criticize at the moment. Of course a change was needed to prevent the abuse as an always escape ability, but that shouldn't destroy its potential for an offensive playstyle.

Vis

NerfEverything wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I do believe the number of sorc nerf rage threads has indeed exceeded the number of DK nerf rage threads.

But, we really don't have enough threads about the nerf to Bolt escape. need more.

Devs have confirmed multiple times on these forums that BE is exactly where they want it to be. Plus the vast majority of players are happy with the change.

Seems silly that a small minority of horrible sorcs are managing to create such a toxic environment in these forums.

I don't know why the mods aren't closing these threads.

This puzzles me, link for both plz

L2Forum, click the developer tracker link on the right. But here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/982766

L2Read Nowhere in the comment does she agree that the regeneration nerf is WAI. In fact, her leaving it out demonstrates how clueless she is to the bugs they created.

Vis

ruebezal wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

The only thing this nerf has done is punish people who use Bolt Escape (either morph) in active combat. People who use Streak for damage and CC get punished. Tanks who use Ball of Lightning for the absorption (since we don't get Reflective Scales or Eclipse) get punished.

They've hurt anyone who uses this ability except for the people they ought to have been targeting.

A better change would be to remove both casting penalties for Streak, keep only the Magicka regen debuff for Ball of Lightning (since there is a lingering effect which usually hurts your magicka pool ala Mage Light), increase the damage of Streak (to encourage people to pick this morph and to use it for damage rather than just running), and make casting Bolt Escape remove CC-immunity from any source so that enemy players would always have easy counter-play options.

Exactly!
I still wonder why most people don't want to understand that this nerf has affected the wrong target. You still can escape spamming BE to escape, but the offensive use of this ability has been strongly restricted. And that is what most sorcerers criticize at the moment. Of course a change was needed to prevent the abuse as an always escape ability, but that shouldn't destroy its potential for an offensive playstyle.

Exactly, we now have gap closers that are spammable (and yes, I know I spam them too) versus a skill that is good for running away but not for staying in a fight.

My sorc is: "Vae Exilis" for anyone who wants to judge what I do/don't know about sorcs.

HelpingHand

Vis wrote: »

4.) Allow bolt to root anyone within 5m of the starting point

This is the only one that makes any sense. The rest is asking for it to be broken again.

Syndy

HelpingHand wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

4.) Allow bolt to root anyone within 5m of the starting point

This is the only one that makes any sense. The rest is asking for it to be broken again.

No, they have a class skill that gives a root already. Why not cast that then Bolt Away?

Giving BE a Root along with what it does already is probably the stupidest thing I have read on these forums, and on these forums, that is saying something.

crislevin

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

HelpingHand wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

4.) Allow bolt to root anyone within 5m of the starting point

This is the only one that makes any sense. The rest is asking for it to be broken again.

No, they have a class skill that gives a root already. Why not cast that then Bolt Away?

Giving BE a Root along with what it does already is probably the stupidest thing I have read on these forums, and on these forums, that is saying something.

because EVERYBODY has ranged skills, encase only immobilize opponent, but has no restriction on their attack activities.

Syndy

crislevin wrote: »

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

HelpingHand wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

4.) Allow bolt to root anyone within 5m of the starting point

This is the only one that makes any sense. The rest is asking for it to be broken again.

No, they have a class skill that gives a root already. Why not cast that then Bolt Away?

Giving BE a Root along with what it does already is probably the stupidest thing I have read on these forums, and on these forums, that is saying something.

because EVERYBODY has ranged skills, encase only immobilize opponent, but has no restriction on their attack activities.

Did you even read what I quoted? Because if you did, what you said makes absolutely ZERO sense to what I said.

Reykice

you are right but they won`t listen.

Lyall84

My vote, reduce the initial cost a bunch. Like a lot, then every time you cast you get a 10 second defuff that adds the initial casting cost to the next cast. That way you can spam as much as you have mana, and the original cost is low enough to not be broken. Make the debuff stack so first cast is normal, 2nd costs x2, 3rd cast x3, etc. Have the debuffs fade off 10 seconds after each is applied, so if you outright spam, it drains mana, but if you wait a little between castings, you can use it to move around without killing your mana pool.

SilverWF

Vis wrote: »

May I suggest then we re-imagine bolt escape?

ZO, take this man for your main game designer role, I'm swear, you'll kill WOW after this!

Lyall84

crislevin wrote: »

1. don't turn around, and keep BEing (except you don't have enough magicka to get out of their range) and they just turn around and see your ass running, pull/teleport strike your behind, which I may add, also stuns you.

2. turn around and ready to fight, but they are already out of "stun" and ready to pull you over or teleport striking you, which I may add again, also stuns you.

Night Blade Teleport Strikes only stun monsters last time I checked, not players, so not sure where you are getting that information. The stun, if you are getting one, happens when a night blade attacks from stealth (passive from assassin tree) so it effects any attack from stealth.

NordJitsu

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Liquid_Time

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

Vis

Liquid_Time wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

*Bump*

Just because I want Liquid's words to live for eternity ... and for ZOS to fix my bolt.

Though really ZOS, I bolt and the DKs/NBs charge ... why am I even bolting anymore?

Valn

Vis wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

*Bump*

Just because I want Liquid's words to live for eternity ... and for ZOS to fix my bolt.

Though really ZOS, I bolt and the DKs/NBs charge ... why am I even bolting anymore?

Because you're a terrible player who doesn't know how to play their class properly. As a sorc you shouldn't even be in range of a melee user.

/thread.

Vis

Valn wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

*Bump*

Just because I want Liquid's words to live for eternity ... and for ZOS to fix my bolt.

Though really ZOS, I bolt and the DKs/NBs charge ... why am I even bolting anymore?

Because you're a terrible player who doesn't know how to play their class properly. As a sorc you shouldn't even be in range of a melee user.

/thread.

Is this guy for real? Is he is the same one who insisted:

-Fragments can proc off of itself?
-Heavy charges can be instantly casted?
-You can hold a heavy attack on a destro-staff?
-Created a whole thread because an NB killed his v12 in under 4 seconds?

SilverWF

Vis wrote: »

-Created a whole thread because an NB killed his v12 in under 4 seconds?

This is most funny part ^^

Valn

Vis wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

*Bump*

Just because I want Liquid's words to live for eternity ... and for ZOS to fix my bolt.

Though really ZOS, I bolt and the DKs/NBs charge ... why am I even bolting anymore?

Because you're a terrible player who doesn't know how to play their class properly. As a sorc you shouldn't even be in range of a melee user.

/thread.

Is this guy for real? Is he is the same one who insisted:

-Fragments can proc off of itself?
-Heavy charges can be instantly casted?
-You can hold a heavy attack on a destro-staff?
-Created a whole thread because an NB killed his v12 in under 4 seconds?

Still upset that you can't run away from fights anymore?

And you do realise you can do a charged heavy attack on a destro staff right?

DDemon

Increase range to 30, set a 10-15 second timer on it for re-use. Bolt _escape_.

fambaab16_ESO

Well NPCs can open a portal to oblivion (instant cast) but hey I can travel 15 meters for 20% of my magicka wohooo.

Vis

Valn wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Liquid_Time‌

Disagree all you want, but post a reason. Just saying "no thanks" adds nothing to the conversation and is considered spam (just like saying only /signed or "qft" is considered spam.)

If you've got nothing substantive to add you're just spamming at best and flame baiting at worst.

I laid out an argument for why this nerf was bad, didn't solve the problem people were complaining about, punished BE users that people weren't complaining about, and I gave a solution for how to fix the actual problem.

The fact that all you can say is "no thanks" leads me to believe you've got no real ground to stand on so you're being contrarian just 'cuz.

Darn.. I thought this thread died already.. Ugh..

You could have left things where they were, but you chose to continue commenting on my statement.. Why is that? Do you feel it was needed to call me out and attempt to explain why I said no thanks?

I thought I explained myself quite clearly...

*Bump*

Just because I want Liquid's words to live for eternity ... and for ZOS to fix my bolt.

Though really ZOS, I bolt and the DKs/NBs charge ... why am I even bolting anymore?

Because you're a terrible player who doesn't know how to play their class properly. As a sorc you shouldn't even be in range of a melee user.

/thread.

Is this guy for real? Is he is the same one who insisted:

-Fragments can proc off of itself?
-Heavy charges can be instantly casted?
-You can hold a heavy attack on a destro-staff?
-Created a whole thread because an NB killed his v12 in under 4 seconds?

Still upset that you can't run away from fights anymore?

And you do realise you can do a charged heavy attack on a destro staff right?

You obviously did not read the OP. That's the problem, I can Still run away from Any fight I want. The nerf did not fix the core complaint, it only added new problems.

You cannot hold a charged heavy attack (like with a bow).

Nox_Aeterna

BE is still freaking strong for the same reason it was OP to begin with , no target , which is the reason why it could be used to run away to start with.

Add a target to the skill and problem solved , they can return it to what used to be , because for now , even this nerf was not enough , should have been an even bigger nerf.

Make one morph blink to the target , make one morph blink away , BOTH will have a range and target , for the actual BE skill just pick one , the morph will open the choice. Then game will actually go back to the balance of a guy uses a skill to get far , the other one uses a gap closer , both spent the resource ...

That is balance , not a guy deciding to teleport away and getting a free pass to run.

SilverWF

Gap-closer must be fixed, to not let to spam it!

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Add a target to the skill and problem solved , they can return it to what used to be , because for now , even this nerf was not enough , should have been an even bigger nerf.

And how it will help to you if I'll turn my camera to your direction and will start blinking away? Also, I can target everything: mobs, critters, another enemies, etc.

Vis

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

BE is still freaking strong for the same reason it was OP to begin with , no target , which is the reason why it could be used to run away to start with.

Add a target to the skill and problem solved , they can return it to what used to be , because for now , even this nerf was not enough , should have been an even bigger nerf.

Bigger nerf is not the answer. Nerfs in general is rarely the answer. We need something more creative than cost increases; something that promote fighting over running.

As it stands now, the nerf promotes running over fighting (because of spammable gap closers) and only hurts your sorc friends whom you never had issues with.

While a target could play a role, no sorc is in need of another gap closer (the entire game is in no need of more of them). However, I like that you are willing to think outside of the nerf box and that is respectable.