Loot system for trials is not satisfactory

SteveRuimy

Hi,

I'd like to point out a fact after almost 3 weeks of constant farming of Hel Ra and AA trials that could be interesting for the devs and for the community.

After having completed the trials a good 100+ times I still haven't completed the set I'm looking for (I have only 2 pieces) and here is the reason why:

Only the LAST boss from each trials drop ONE set piece, their loot table is composed of Weapons (1h/2h) + Armor set pieces (heavy/light/medium) + Necklaces. 28 ITEMS total = 1/28 = 0.3571 = 3.57% drop chance for the item you want

For your information maybe you don't know it yet but RINGS and some other set pieces (like boots for example) can only be found in the daily bag (only once per week).

I understand the point of Zenimax that it should be hard to get your stuffs and I'm completely in favor of that, but considering the time and effort put by the PVE players I think the reward is not here at the end of the line. It is more frustrating than anything right now. There's is no satisfaction knowing that a new patch will be present every 6 weeks and those items will be outdated.

The other bosses in trials drops set pieces (blue) and 1 purple that is useless, let's be honest they are only good for deconstruct.

I think you should see things differently and maybe think it this way (updated solutions found thanks to this post):

- Differentiates the loot table between Hel Ra and AA by dividing the loot table of 28 items of each boss (for example: Only heavy + light and or necklaces sets can drop in Hel Ra's last boss and only Medium + weapons and or necklaces can drop in the last boss of AA)

- Make items bound to raid for a short period of time so people can switch the drops they had with the people in the raid. (Please do NEVER make them bound on equip, terrible idea, killed Neverwinter)

- Each boss could drop a set piece, for example 1st boss can drops only gloves or belt, 2nd boss (boots or shoulders), 3rd boss (necklace or legs), last boss (weapons or head or chest)

PVE is my main interest in most of the game I play, the time and effort we put in our character should be rewarded by an easier way to get stuff in trials, Crafted items are amazing and I love the way it is right now but I want to have the possibility to also use those beautiful set you made. Right now the loot table on the final bosses are way too big to make it possible to get the items I want.

I hope a dev will come this way and read my post,

Best.

Unknown_poster

And you would run it exactly as many times as it took you to get your shiny. Then would be here posting about how "game suxxors, not enough endgame."

SteveRuimy

Please take the time to read what I said again, I'm not really talking from my perspective but in a global point of view.

Unknown_poster

"interesting point" comes off more of a "I want my cookie now, or I'm gonna cry." post to me.

Vuron

Actually, the loot system for the entire game is bad. I think the lack of loot is one of the issues impacting the entire VR experience. What is the point of doing an hour long quest chain, knowing that your reward will be 2% of your xp bar, a few hundred gold, and a single item that gets vendored, or even worse, a trophy with a 0 value that takes up a valuable bank slot.

People wonder why so many people want to farm dungeons, certain mobs in Craglorn, or do trials. At least there is a small chance of getting something random that might actually be useful or valuable.

It's pretty sad when you have a better chance of getting a valuable item by fighting a trash mob than you have by doing a long, boring quest chain.

Better loot options, please.

SteveRuimy

Then you haven't read my post or you're still not doing trials yet, I'm making a point about a normal player who's not going to be able to farm it like I can with my guild. How long is it going to take him to find his set? I'm pretty sure he'll never have it. Having such a LARGE loot table in only 1 boss is compromising the satisfaction for normal players. The loot table could be divided between different bosses, maybe only the 2 last one then and not on each of them. The fact that rings can be dropped only in bags is nice I'm not against it because you'll have to go at least 1 time a week to get what you need.

I'll write it down for you so you get my point: 1 2h, 1h sword, 1 2h bow, 1 2h frost staff, 1 2h fire staff, 1 2h lightning staff, 1 2h resto staff, 3 different necklaces + let's say they can drop the 5 set pieces but I know boots are only in bags so: 5 pieces x3 (light/heavy/medium) (I'll let you make the probability if you have time to lose)

How long is it gonna take the normal player to get his set done? I'm pretty sure more than the 6 weeks before the next patch.

Lupinemw

I know its an odd thing to say. But have you thought to ask the other guys doing the trials if they got the item and are willing to swap as it appears to be a what's mine is mine moment..

Logic dictates teamwork is better, but I guess that if your running in a PuG thats the lacking factor.

Manoekin

Definitely need something like this. Not even about time, just that after the 15th frost staff you want something useful.

SteveRuimy

You can't swap item Lupinemw, each person can loot the boss and received 1 item (for the last boss) which is the only one you really want since the loots from other bosses are "trash" to be honest. Everything dropped by last boss are set pieces that are "Bound" to you, you can't swap them with anyone.

Lupinemw

SteveRuimy wrote: »

You can't swap item Lupinemw, each person can loot the boss and received 1 item (for the last boss) which is the only one you really want since the loots from other bosses are "trash" to be honest. Everything dropped by last boss are set pieces that are "Bound" to you, you can't swap them with anyone.

Ahh fair enough, the old Bound at times can be a pain.

SteveRuimy

Yeah if it was possible I wouldn't have make this post tbh, I hope my answer helped you.

Vuron

SteveRuimy wrote: »

Then you haven't read my post or you're still not doing trials yet, I'm making a point about a normal player who's not going to be able to farm it like I can with my guild. How long is it going to take him to find his set? I'm pretty sure he'll never have it. Having such a LARGE loot table in only 1 boss is compromising the satisfaction for normal players. The loot table could be divided between different bosses, maybe only the 2 last one then and not on each of them. The fact that rings can be dropped only in bags is nice I'm not against it because you'll have to go at least 1 time a week to get what you need.

I'll write it down for you so you get my point: 1 2h, 1h sword, 1 2h bow, 1 2h frost staff, 1 2h fire staff, 1 2h lightning staff, 1 2h resto staff, 3 different necklaces + let's say they can drop the 5 set pieces but I know boots are only in bags so: 5 pieces x3 (light/heavy/medium) (I'll let you make the probability if you have time to lose)

How long is it gonna take the normal player to get his set done? I'm pretty sure more than the 6 weeks before the next patch.

I read your post, understood your point, and actually agree. I was just saying that the loot in the entire game is horrible, but at least dungeons and AA are slightly better and, at least, are random. I absolutely agree with your point in that most people, including hardcore players, will never be able to finish most of the sets.

So, lets give random loot for quest rewards, and adjust the loot tables for dungeons and AA for a greater chance of getting sets. Or, better yet, keep the drop rates the same and stop with the 'bind on pickup' crap so that we can trade for what we need.

SteveRuimy

Sorry you took it for you Vuron, my answer was directed towards "davidgawronrwb17_ESO"

SteveRuimy

I'll be glad if people could give their thoughts on it. Maybe propose different ideas. If you have cleared trials, attempted to clear it or just leveling, at the end you'll be facing the same difficulty as us. Dungeons and quests loot system are not really different but I'm not here to compare the loots of a dungeon 4 man to a raid 12 man.

Thank you for sharing your ideas!

Worstluck

Items should be bound to the 'raid' not to the player if possible. Whoever has that item in their inventory when they leave the instance, that item is now bound to them (like set pieces from bosses, not random loot). That way you can trade items between raid members while inside the instance so that hopefully everyone gets something useful for their efforts.

SteveRuimy

Worstluck wrote: »

Items should be bound to the 'raid' not to the player if possible. Whoever has that item in their inventory when they leave the instance, that item is now bound to them (like set pieces from bosses, not random loot). That way you can trade items between raid members while inside the instance so that hopefully everyone gets something useful for their efforts.

That's a nice idea thanks! Could solve some issues but knowing that everyone is wearing light + destro/resto staff I don't really know if it's going to work out well, but it's a nice first step if it was implemented!

SteveRuimy

Bump, I think it's an interesting topic and the more people see/comment it the better will be the help we could provide to ZOS.

Lkory

GOOD, you still have something to accomplish.

How long do you think it took early wow and everquest players to get a full set when Raid Mobs droped 1 epic per kill for the whole raid.

You all whine about no end game and you all whine not enough loot ...could you make up your mind?...

Damn...i miss DKP systems... it was actually fun compared to the easy end game we have and the no end game whiners. We used to raid for a 1/24 chance to get great gear. Raids were hard has it required this gear to complete but it was granted to your group very slowly hence END GAME.

So please find the missing pieces, i really cant wait for your 'NO END GAME' post in a few days.

SteveRuimy

And another one that did not read carefully everything I said but went through my post reading what he wants to see.

Early vanilla was 1 loot on each boss (1 was legs, 1 was chest etc..) for each raid until they implemented tokens.. sorry you're wrong, and the loot table between each raid were DIFFERENT (t1/t2) here everything is the same regardless of helra or AA

I'm for 1 loot per boss, but only the final boss it's a bit too much considering the loot table is 25+ items on the same boss, the probability is HUGE, for example monday over 12 Runs I got 6 staff 3 heavy pieces (2 times the same head) 2 necklaces and 1 2h sword. This is just an example for you to understand how big is the loot table.

So maybe drop only on the 2 last boss?

SteveRuimy

Or light/heavy only in AA and medium/weapons necklace only in Hel Ra since it's more difficult than AA what do you think?

Cogo

ESO isn't a "farm" game. The reason for the random drops are just cause the main feature in ESO is not gear. It is a big part of it, but they described the loot drops to have value. If everything drops all the time, gear looses value.

And didn't I read in the road ahead AND one of the coming patches, that they will add specific, rare types of loot, that will be rare and only drops from hard encounters? Also, they adding more types of loot.

Unless I understood this wrong, please correct me, cause I don't want to make a fool out of me by stating this. ESO is a player experience, you choose what to do, challenging, Lore connecting and REAL achievement based game? Loot is not the ultimate price, like in most MMOs end game raids.

WHAT the mobs drops, no matter where, isn't the real goal. To beat the challenge is the goal. This is one of the reasons why I like a loony keeps describing ESO as a new type of MMO.

HOWEVER, as an old hardcore raider. Raid bosses, Trial bosses, events where you need high player skill and cooperation to beat the event, which you would not be able to do without lots if wipes, learning, using every possible resource to win the ultimate boss fight......that should DAMN WELL drop the best items in the game!
Not 100%, but if trials fails 8 times of 10 for a GOOD team, then there SHOULD be rewards accordingly. Risk vs reward IS a feature Zenimax have talked about.

Cogo

Lkory wrote: »

GOOD, you still have something to accomplish.

How long do you think it took early wow and everquest players to get a full set when Raid Mobs droped 1 epic per kill for the whole raid.

You all whine about no end game and you all whine not enough loot ...could you make up your mind?...

Damn...i miss DKP systems... it was actually fun compared to the easy end game we have and the no end game whiners. We used to raid for a 1/24 chance to get great gear. Raids were hard has it required this gear to complete but it was granted to your group very slowly hence END GAME.

So please find the missing pieces, i really cant wait for your 'NO END GAME' post in a few days.

Everquest raids and DKP
8 hours raid in plane of fear, 12 hour raid in Luclin dragon raid boss zone (Forgot the name). Sleepers tomb, where you needed a key per player to even enter. And you could not kill all the bosses in there, cause when you did....Sleepers tomb closed permanently on that server. ONLY those who deserved it had access to the raid and gear.

And the wonderful plane of time mechanics, where you also needed to go from zone to zone, key a player for the next encounter, where getting all raiders (72 people), keyed from each of the elemental planes bosses, to enter the plane of time, where the best loot dropped, but VERY difficult even for hardcore raiders.

I remember that I always kept track of my DKP, not bidding on items I could use, but when THAT item dropped (we did not know what boss droped what item), I choose to blow all my DKP on THAT item.

Oh, everquest raids.....nothing beats it. Still....

Everything do evolve, but what most MMO players/raiders today think is hard......simply have no idea what hardcore raiding is.

Lkory

SteveRuimy wrote: »

And another one that did not read carefully everything I said but went through my post reading what he wants to see.

Early vanilla was 1 loot on each boss (1 was legs, 1 was chest etc..) for each raid until they implemented tokens.. sorry you're wrong, and the loot table between each raid were DIFFERENT (t1/t2) here everything is the same regardless of helra or AA

I'm for 1 loot per boss, but only the final boss it's a bit too much considering the loot table is 25+ items on the same boss, the probability is HUGE, for example monday over 12 Runs I got 6 staff 3 heavy pieces (2 times the same head) 2 necklaces and 1 2h sword. This is just an example for you to understand how big is the loot table.

So maybe drop only on the 2 last boss?

Ok so you got 9 very rare epic items, and the 11 other players also got 9 very rare epic items each, in a day and you are whining? (ok but i cant sell em /cries) when you admit that getting 1 loot per 3-7 days for a whole raid of 24 persons was fine until you could finally get to the 2nd or 3rd boss of said raid and get more loot for your raid. And then you had to start it all over for T2? Seriously?

Tokens...ya the short cut for whiners, do raid 10 time and you get the exact reward you wanted? Well that is the reason every MMO will never have an satisfying end game. WoW made it to easy and ruined MMO's.

Cogo

Worstluck wrote: »

Items should be bound to the 'raid' not to the player if possible. Whoever has that item in their inventory when they leave the instance, that item is now bound to them (like set pieces from bosses, not random loot). That way you can trade items between raid members while inside the instance so that hopefully everyone gets something useful for their efforts.

Interesting suggestion. Been thinking about this for a bit. I am on the fence. It does make sense. But first I need to know how rare the drops are.
If you only need to raid the same thing a few times, trade items, then got everything.......the raid looses its value.

But, I cant get away that your suggestion makes sense.

Cogo

Vuron wrote: »

I read your post, understood your point, and actually agree. I was just saying that the loot in the entire game is horrible, but at least dungeons and AA are slightly better and, at least, are random. I absolutely agree with your point in that most people, including hardcore players, will never be able to finish most of the sets.

So, lets give random loot for quest rewards, and adjust the loot tables for dungeons and AA for a greater chance of getting sets. Or, better yet, keep the drop rates the same and stop with the 'bind on pickup' crap so that we can trade for what we need.

@SteveRuimy

I would agree here, but one main feature in ESO is crafting, and the master crafters that have learned all the skills needed and got the mats needed, found the right place to craft it, is the key to create the missing pieces.

I think this symbiosis is important.

Oh, Bind on pickup on rare items you only get by a very hard effort, it is bind on pickup just because the player who wear it, deserve it.
As suggested, MAYBE the same raid members could trade among the raid. NOT someone who joins after the raid boss is down.

I am against a greater chance of the best gear dropping, MAYBE, increase the drop rate of ALL items, where not all are best in game.

And again, You have the powerful crafters, who spent months maybe to be the best at a specific crafting. This suits perfectly to connect the "best" gear for a player.

I NEVER want to see the games best items sold to anyone with gold enough.
Of course a master crafter can do this, but the mats required to create one set piece should be as rare/difficult to gain, as to kill the best bosses.

ganja.mullarwb17_ESO

@SteveRuimy - Firstly, i feel most people didnt even take the time to understand the issue and proceeded to whine and complain and even troll in some posts.
- Secondly, to the matter at hand - From my understanding of your initial post, i feel the loot is all there and attainable - it just needs to be organised well enough to be able to actively try and "farm" it.
- Thirdly, about 75-80% (or more) of the guilds/people in the game right now (at least in the EU server) are unable to finish trials at will. If they ever do its a once in a blue moon thing.
- Lastly, to recommend a solution - It seems a better way to identify what items drop where could be a good way to go about this. Maybe a system where heavy sets drop only from warrior - light sets only from mage and medium sets from 3rd bosses ( half from 1 instance half from another ) - keep jewelry in the containers.

Solution 2 - Maybe they could implement a smart loot system that only drops items for which you have skills invested in - same rate, same last boss, same rate of trial completion on server - yet characters will find it a bit easier.

Solution 3 - Go back to WoW.
Cheers

SteveRuimy

Damn @ganja.mullarwb17_ESO‌ THANK YOU FOR READING my entire post seems like you are the only one with a brain except some others that made really interesting points.

My post is not about myself i'm full best in slot almost every craft 8 traits in medium+light, i'm making this post because as you pointed it out 80% of the people can't farm these instances and the new trials+dungeons are gonna be in 2-3 weeks max and i'm pretty sure most of the people leveling or the one that can't kill it one or multiple times will never have the chance to wear these UNIQUE set which look completely different from the crafted set that EVERYONE can have.

I'm not for tokens or easy loot because it's not rewarding, it's just that now the way it is made is that 2 boss have the same loot table of 25+ items with the same chances of dropping them and repeatedly.

Your solutions are the one we talked out:
Making 2 different loot tables for each trials (one with light heavy, other one with medium and weapons for example) or make it bound to equip ONLY UNTIL YOU LEAVE ZONE so you can swap gear with guildmates. Never make trials items bound on equip because it'll kill the economy of the game if the best in slot game were available for purchase (e.g: neverwinter economy was killed because of that).

I like your idea about smart loot but I also like to be able to drop heavy for example because I could reroll tank whenever I want and it'll stop me from doing so. (btw items are bound to account which is amazing)

ganja.mullarwb17_ESO

Im sure ZOS guys are hashing this out as we speak - Balance loot/skills/class wise is the main thing that makes or breaks a game - not content imho. BTW @SteveRuimy - id love to join you on some runs if your EU

SteveRuimy

@Cogo I like your idea thanks for sharing that with us! I'm not saying increase the drop rate, 1 items for the final boss is perfectly fine, I feel like repeating myself again but it's just about the loot table and I think it's time to do some maths: 1 items, over a loot table of 28 items (http://dulfy.net/2014/05/26/eso-aetherian-archive-trial-loot-drops/) which is 1/28 = 0.0357 = 3.57% (repeatable) (it's been a while since i've done statistics/proba if i'm wrong thanks for correcting me)
Crafting is amazing and I'm personally wearing full willow + twilight for the +10% spell crit total but you can also understand that from a PVE player perspective it's always cool to look different and have a different stuff than everyone (btw the mage set bonus is pretty nice too). It's just my point of view.

Cogo

@SteveRuimy

I think we agree, just talked around eachother.

In both next patches there is more content in Craglorn, more items. Specificly RARE items that will be rare. They are working with whole Craglorn. Adds, changes, the lot.

Lets wait and see what they manage to do?

I don't get it but one thing most seams to agree on is Dye. EVERYONE cant wait on this to color their gear like they want. Um, ok...niec feature, fits good in the game. Not my prime, second or even middle wish but hey, why not.

They also adding things to crafting. To make crafter do "more" without interfearing with balance and other things. I am curious what this will be.

Oh, I am a full PVE player. The only PvP I have ever even considered to do, is here in ESO, when a guildie who knows me, FORCED me there. Made me do and read the newbie quest. Played in a group, got points to buy a catapult.......and since then I am hooked! Blowing up walls is cool!

And I dont call ESO for PvP. Its war, battles, tactics.

But since you are a PvE person and obviously a raider, you KNOW, then when you got everything you possibly can from an encounter. Sure, you raid it with your guild. But DKP system doesnt exist much anymore and the reason for you coming to those raids....drops...right? ;-)

Cogo

Btw, when Dyes goes live, and cities are overrun with pink bunnylooking characters, I will change my hard opinion about NO PVP outside Cyro....to open PvP everywhere....including my own alliance.

I am fekin gonna murder every single ESO person who will ruin the city look by invading it with pink bunnies!