Light Armor + Staff, 3 solutions

SFBryan18

If the other armors are too weak, then buff them, but don't start removing abilities or penalizing us for wearing light armor. I mean, it already looks like a dress. That's bad enough. I'm seriously negotiating having my mage wear all light armor except for the dress, and instead, he'll be topless. There's a hide helmet option, can we also get a hide dress option too?

Tankqull

Hedonist_Jester wrote: »

There are really only three answers to this problem:
1. Light armor needs the cost reduction to magicka skills removed or squelched.

you are forgetting that every stamina weapon line provide 20% staminacost reduction as a passive while medium armor provides much much more crit than LA how are you balancing that fact in return?

Hedonist_Jester wrote: »

2. Light armor needs negatives to balance what positives come from it (negative HPs per piece worn, increased susceptibility to fire, etc)
4. Medium and Heavy armor need passives that would bring them into desirability to an equal level.

all they need to do is change the way the defensive "skills" roll/dodge cc break block interfere with stamina skills. that could be easily changed by changing them from %based to hard numberes lets say 500stamina points for rolling and blocking and change the 5slot bonus to give 12% cost reduction per piece of medium regarding rolls and heavy armor in terms of blocking. tada the stamina issues would be severly lessend. or simply move them to a seperated resource pool.

Hedonist_Jester wrote: »

Until this is fixed, any boosting/nerfing of class abilities and/or staff based weapon skills have no effect on the paradigm. You reduce the damage on Pulsar, the Dragonknight robe wearer simply uses a different AoE in it's place. You increase the damage on Impale, the Nightblade robe wearer thanks you. Now if you were to give an "Evocation" passive to the medium/heavy armor tree, and a fighter's guild passive that allowed dodge/roll/block stamina to come from the magicka pool? Your 8 different robe wearing staff weilders become thousands of effective builds.

Heavy Armor Passive: Strength of Will. Rank 1 Combat Manuevers cost Magicka instead of Stamina while wearing 5 pieces of heavy armor or more.
Heavy Armor Passive: Empowered Plates: Rank 1/2/3 Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and skills by 1%/2%/3%, and increases maximum HPs/Stamina by 0.5%/1%/1.5% per piece of heavy armor worn.

Medium Armor Passive: Catlike Reflexes Rank 1 Combat Manuevers costs are split between your Magicka and Stamina pools equally while wearing 5 or more pieces of medium armor.
Medium Armor Passive: Dexterity: Rank 1/2 Reduces the cost of all spells and skills by 1%/2%, increases melee critical strike chance by 1%/2%, and increases melee critical strike damage by 1%/2% per piece of medium armor worn.

what they definatly should change are the armor rating and resistance caps and tie them to the armor lets say heavy 3000, medium 2000, light 1000 just as examples the other way round in case of spell resistance. or as an self-appointed anchestor of DAoC add absorb values , heavy 30% dmg reduction, medium 15%, light 0.

Soloeus

Garbage, all 3 "solutions" are just as bad as "the problem."

The synergy between Light Armor and Staves is fine. Without it, mages may as well have no armor passives at all. It would make it so a mage can use 3 abilities, then run out of battle until they can "recharge." Is this the PVE you want? Is this the support you want in PVP?

Probably not.

You just want to weaken others. You hate how bad Stamina Builds are but you fail to see some things.

1. Stamina, not Magicka is used for passive elements that everyone even mages use. Roll Dodging, Sprinting, Blocking. Mages burn through stamina while doing these things. They don't take out of our resource pool.

2. Stamina Builds don't have items that really support them. We don't have a lot of items, enchants and set bonuses that give Stamina Flood (akin to Magicka Flood) or Reduced Stamina costs. There are ways into this bonus but it isn't as easy as the mage parts for the same pieces.

3. Stamina Builds don't have a lot of abilities that recharge Stamina. Magicka builds are based entirely on restoring magicka and managing magicka. This also plays into not sharing my resource pool with blocking, weapon switching,and dodging.

If you want more power, ask for it. Don't sit there asking for others to be weakened just to make them unfun to play.

Hedonist_Jester

Soloeus wrote: »

Garbage, all 3 "solutions" are just as bad as "the problem."

The synergy between Light Armor and Staves is fine. Without it, mages may as well have no armor passives at all. It would make it so a mage can use 3 abilities, then run out of battle until they can "recharge." Is this the PVE you want? Is this the support you want in PVP?

Probably not.

You just want to weaken others. You hate how bad Stamina Builds are but you fail to see some things.

1. Stamina, not Magicka is used for passive elements that everyone even mages use. Roll Dodging, Sprinting, Blocking. Mages burn through stamina while doing these things. They don't take out of our resource pool.

2. Stamina Builds don't have items that really support them. We don't have a lot of items, enchants and set bonuses that give Stamina Flood (akin to Magicka Flood) or Reduced Stamina costs. There are ways into this bonus but it isn't as easy as the mage parts for the same pieces.

3. Stamina Builds don't have a lot of abilities that recharge Stamina. Magicka builds are based entirely on restoring magicka and managing magicka. This also plays into not sharing my resource pool with blocking, weapon switching,and dodging.

If you want more power, ask for it. Don't sit there asking for others to be weakened just to make them unfun to play.

You're making a very incorrect assumption that this has anything to do with power, and not completely based on flavor. In fact, every dress wearing stick - gripper in this thread has assumed it was a call to nerf them into the ground. I want ESO to succeed, and it won't happen if 80% of the players are forced into light armor/staff to be competitive.

If you want to be a stereotypical mage build, you should be just as viable as the plate wearing lancelot. I am not disagreeing with this. My solutions posed are not at all perfect and need balanced just as anything else that changes in the game - but don't assume I want anyone to be "worse". This game is young enough to change core systems and survive... which makes the word "nerf" completely irrelevant unless you only wanted to play for a month or so.

The tragedy would be if nothing was done, and I for one would rather be constructive and throw my stupid ideas into the hat, instead of going into random forums threads and bashing any concept of change that threatened a bad system I've adapted to.

Reykice

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Yes, light armor + resto/destro staff + class abilities is too good.

No, they should not be nerfed as the solution. The reason medium/heavy armor and melee weapon/stamina builds suck right now is not because light armor is too good... it's because they suck.

If you just nerf everything until everyone is equally crappy, the game is not going to be fun anymore.



Here's my proposed solution:

-Change the 20% stamina reduction cost in each weapon skill tree to the following:

Two Handed: Balanced Blade
Reduces the cost of all stamina abilities by 10/20% while wielding a two handed weapon.
One Handed & Shield: Fortress
Reduces the cost of blocking by 15/30% and the cost of all stamina abilities while wielding a one handed weapon and shield by 10/20%.
Dual Wield: Controlled Fury
Reduces the cost of all stamina abilities by 10/20% while dual wielding.
Bow: Ranger
Reduces the cost of all stamina abilities by 10/20% while wielding a bow.


-Change the passive "Evocation" in the light armor tree to the following:

Evocation
Increases spell critical strike chance by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor equipped. Current bonus: X%


-Change the following passives in the destruction and restoration staff skill lines:

Destruction Expert (destruction staff)
Current: Restores 3/6 magicka when killing a target with a destruction spell.
New: Reduces the cost of all magicka abilities by 10/20% while wielding a destruction staff.

Absorb (restoration staff)
Current: Blocking spells restores X magicka.
New: Reduces the cost of all magicka abilities by 10/20% while wielding a restoration staff.


-Change inner light and it's morphs to the following (remove crit, as it is now available in the light armor line):

Magelight:
Summons a light that reveals hidden and invisible enemies within 12 meters.
(no more crit, no more magicka reduction, it's a free passive that requires a skill slot)

Radiant Magelight:
Summons a brighter light at the targetted location that reveals hidden and invisible enemies within 20 meters for 30 seconds. Allies in the area take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.
(Instead of floating around you, the ball is cast at an area and reveals a larger area, still provides the defensive bonus. Would be more useful for defending keeps).

Inner Light:
Increases weapon and spell damage by 10%, but reduces max magicka and max stamina by 5%. No longer reveals hidden or invisible enemies.
(no more glowing ball, thus no more stealth detection, this simply works as a damage boost in place of the crit that it once gave).


-Change the following skills in the heavy armor skill line:

Juggernaut:
Increases weapon damage and spell damage by 1% / 2% per piece of heavy armor equipped. Current bonus: X%.
(no longer just a melee damage bonus. This way heavy armor is useful for both stamina and magicka builds, while medium armor is stamina focused and light armor is magicka focused).


-Add the following restrictions to armor active abilities:

Annulment / Dampen Magic / Harness Magicka
Can only be activated if at least 4 pieces of light armor are equipped.

Evasion / Shuffle / Elude
Can only be activated if at least 4 pieces of medium armor are equipped.

Immovable / Immovable Brute / Unstoppable
Can only be activated if at least 4 pieces of heavy armor are equipped.




What these changes will accomplish:

-Light armor no longer provides reduced magicka costs, but instead provides critical for spells, this gives it the same benefits for a magicka build that medium armor gives for stamina builds.

-Stamina reduction passives in melee/bow skill lines will now apply to all stamina abilities, including alliance war and fighter's guild abilities.
-Magicka reduction passives are now gained from the destruction staff and restoration staff skill lines, rather than from light armor.

-Magelight is no longer a 'must have' ability for spell builds, and now becomes equally useful for both stamina and magicka builds.

-Heavy armor becomes equally useful for either stamina/melee focused characters OR magicka focused characters, or better yet hybrid characters. In fact, heavy armor would become the armor type of choice for hybrid builds, while medium armor is more favorable to heavy stamina builds and light armor is more favorable to heavy magicka builds. The changes to juggernaut also allow for heavy armor damage dealers to be effective.

-Players wearing all light armor (or all medium armor) will no longer be able to abuse immovable for the crowd control immunity and armor bonus, and likewise for the light armor and medium armor active abilities.



maybe after all of that is done, actual balancing on the damage/cost values between magicka and stamina abilities can occur.

No, this only works for PvP and that is what? 10% of the population? It would suck for the rest.

The reason stamina builds are useless is because every class skill uses magicka. Want to fix stamina builds, work on that first.

Also, NEVER remove the Mage Light Stealth detection. Its fine the way it is and has a purpose.

Hedonist_Jester

No, this only works for PvP and that is what? 10% of the population? It would suck for the rest.

This statement only goes to show how our of touch with the demographic you actually are. While any proposed fixes if the above length protect themselves entirely from being read, it's not going to be a quick or easy fix.

So long as there is a large DPS disparity, people will pigeon hole to a standard. So long as weapon skills are universally accessible, changes to weapon line DPS will not fix it alone.

Another option would be to have the weapon line skillset morph based on class: IE your DK gets two handed morphs like "fiery charge" and "scaled edge" whereas your Templar gets morphs like "Holy Smite" and "Dawns Pommel". Without class based segregation, weapon lines will always mean nothing compared to class skills as they will be available to all... which isn't in and of itself a bad thing if synergies are checked. In the case of light armor, it's unchecked, unbalanced, and any quick population glance will serve as evidence.

Bhakura

Light armor and staves is fine, its stamina thats lacking.
Buff stamina skills and youll have more options then just light armor and staves.
Cost reduction, a little beef in damage, like reverse slash for instance, the skill is near useless since it requires several hits before it gets the damage proc but its eating stamina away, heavy attacks are far better then that skill and it dont cost nothing.
Doubling natural stamina regeneration would already fix alot of problems.
People already mass evacuating because "its to hard", nerfing the one setup that is more ensured of victory doesnt help, buffing the ones that are lacking is far better.
And another thing, add a focus bar, for blocking and running and dodging and stamina builds become even more useful.

captain_awesome

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

So, do you guys even compare the different amounts of spell resist & armor you get with full light, medium & heavy?

Wtf is this? ok guys, we got DKs nerfed & sorc semi nerfed, lets find the next thing to cry about & get it nerfed?

instead of nerfing everything, propose things to bring the other armor types on par with light, instead of crying qq op nerf !!!!1!111!!!

i honestly thing they're fine as is, light gives magicka recovery, medium gives stam recovery, heavy gives hp recovery. Light gives bonus to spells, medium to weapons, heavy to survivability.

wtf is you guys problem? are you trying to run magicka based builds while you pump *** in stam? learn what different class abilities & weapon abilities are considered as, not all "spells" are spells ....

clearly you dont know how things actually work. soft caps mean that you reach the soft cap for armour easily in light armour with a boost from any number of shield type abilities.. this negates any advantage you have while wearing heavy armour..

if this wasnt the case and you could get a sizable reduction in damage thro mitigation over someone in light armour (as is usually the case in every other game) then there would be the trade off.. heavy armour = much harder to kill

light armour =more damage but easier to kill

sound familiar? ,, cos its what works in every other game MMO or RPG ive ever played in the last 20 years.

so perhaps you should learn about soft caps and mitigation before you go spouting nonsense.

ok? not caus you played mmo's and rpgs for 20 years that every game should follow every other games way of functioning.

if i just wear light armor i barely overcharge my spell resist softcap (note, thats with a mix & match of purple/blue/green armor pieces) my armor gets to 800 ish give or take (as stated earlier above, softcaps), even with all 7 pieces upgraded to purple & even if i added the armor increase trait, i doubt i'll reach the 1900 softcap for armor.

now if i want more magicka regen, or spell dmg, or fire / poison resist, i wont have options to add armor or spell resist glyphs.

medium armor gets closer to both spell resist & armor softcap. heavy armor reaches both & beyond.

a friend of mine using heavy armor (7 pieces) equipped armor & spell resist glyphs and i can tell you you can't reach the amounts he got with light armor.

granted i can reach the softcap if i add glyphs in jewelry, but then im sacrificing magicka regen & other stuff.

and this is as a sorc btw. DKs get passives to increase spell resist, NBs get passives to increase armor & spell resist coming out of stealth, templars get passives for spell resist, and reduced ability cost for magicka, stamina & ultimate.

if you want to shout out nerf light armor, consider all the class synergies & *** with it.

oh, but i don't know how to play, or read, or test i guess...... 20 years experience def trumps my 15 years. stop expecting *** to work as any other copycat mmo out there. read, test, learn.

ok if you can read so well highlight the part in any of my posts where i ask for anything to be nerfed.... if you can i,ll accept you can actually read properly .. if not i would have to argue you just proved me right..... i,ll wait over here and give you time to find the sentence where i ask for a nerf in this thread......

NERFED you went BEYOND NERFED you want the core functions of the game to simply change because you believe it should work differently IE not tanking in light armor any more.

That's a core function being able to do that. But its something a player has to work for it doesn't come easy and it comes at a much higher cost than if wearing Heavy Armor.

The core functions should change because they make no fracking sense.

Yes it's a magical and in some cases illogical fantasy world, I accept that!

BUT! The current combat system make no sense at all. It needs a Full overhaul from the ground up. Even if I squint sideways and look at it from every tangential aspect - it still doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Nothing less than a full overhaul is needed. Zos, the drawingboard is >>> that way.

If everything in this game can be done better wearing light armour why are heavy and medium in the game?

The armour passives need a rework, the armour active skills need a rework so they can be only used if youre wearing X pieces of that gear. Armour bonuses from spells need a rework/capping/changed depending what armour you wear, perhaps a flat % increase rather than large bonuses like +1200, should be the same for armour potions too.

Stamina based skills need a rework to do more damage.
Perhaps reserve Stamina for dodge/block and create a 3rd resource for physical damage - call it power??

Whatever you do some serious rethinking of the entire combat system and armour systems are needed.

Phinix1

Hedonist_Jester wrote: »

There are really only three answers to this problem:
1. Light armor needs the cost reduction to magicka skills removed or squelched.
2. Light armor needs negatives to balance what positives come from it (negative HPs per piece worn, increased susceptibility to fire, etc)
3. Medium and Heavy armor need passives that would bring them into desirability to an equal level.

1) No, wrong. Nerfing to the lowest common denominator results in ALL options sucking. Basic MMO design balance 101. Why not add Stamina cost reduction on Medium Armor? Makes a LOT more sense then rage-flailing the nerf bat.
2) Wrong again. This isn't Vampirism. This isn't some gimmick where guards need to attack you on sight for wearing a robe (unless it has a REALLY offensive color pattern). What is CLEARLY needed is some buffs to the other armor types. I suggest a similar Stamina cost reduction on Medium armor and a MAX health increase on heavy.
3) See above.

Balance by nerf is the most lazy, unimaginative, and destructive option possible. It shouldn't even be considered as a last resort by any self-respecting game designer.

Shaun98ca2

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Hedonist_Jester wrote: »

There are really only three answers to this problem:
1. Light armor needs the cost reduction to magicka skills removed or squelched.
2. Light armor needs negatives to balance what positives come from it (negative HPs per piece worn, increased susceptibility to fire, etc)
3. Medium and Heavy armor need passives that would bring them into desirability to an equal level.

1) No, wrong. Nerfing to the lowest common denominator results in ALL options sucking. Basic MMO design balance 101. Why not add Stamina cost reduction on Medium Armor? Makes a LOT more sense then rage-flailing the nerf bat.
2) Wrong again. This isn't Vampirism. This isn't some gimmick where guards need to attack you on sight for wearing a robe (unless it has a REALLY offensive color pattern). What is CLEARLY needed is some buffs to the other armor types. I suggest a similar Stamina cost reduction on Medium armor and a MAX health increase on heavy.
3) See above.

Balance by nerf is the most lazy, unimaginative, and destructive option possible. It shouldn't even be considered as a last resort by any self-respecting game designer.

Whats wrong with the stamina cost reduction on all weapons?

Hedonist_Jester

I'm surrounded by morons. There's no "nerf" if the environment also changes. Adding to medium and heavy, or bringing down light - they're both the same when balancing and scaling happens.

If this problem was one dimensional your argument would make sense... but since balancing has to also happen : quit being butt hurt about proposed fixes.