Just remove bolt escape

Daethz

Bolt Escape is causing nothing but problems, It was super rigged, it got nerfed, massive outcry from people who wanted to keep being rigged, consistent QQ over wanting it to be OP again.

Just remove the spell entirely and come up with a completely different new one, and make sure its not rigged.

Venithar

I completely agree, remove all gap closers as well please, I mean they are OP as well.

CombatBeard

But if they remove BE people will be making compensation claims for injuries due to tripping on their skirts while running away.

Nox_Aeterna

Yeap it is a broken skill , zen should have added it with a target since the start , then it would not have been such a big deal.

SilverWF

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Yeap it is a broken skill , zen should have added it with a target since the start , then it would not have been such a big deal.

Do you even have a brain in your head?
WHAT I need to target if I want to escape FROM someone? Horizon? But we all already doing this!

Venithar wrote: »

I completely agree, remove all gap closers as well please, I mean they are OP as well.

+1

Daethz

Another idea:
Combat Exhaustion: You have successfully fled from near death on the battlefield, for the next 30 minutes you are too tired to use any ability and swing your weapon"
(Removes on death)

I dont think there would be bolt qq if that was added.

Nox_Aeterna

SilverWF wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Yeap it is a broken skill , zen should have added it with a target since the start , then it would not have been such a big deal.

Do you even have a brain in your head?
WHAT I need to target if I want to escape FROM someone? Horizon? But we all already doing this!

That is exactly the point , it should be a way to get away from melee then people would use the gap closer and thus there would be balance LIKE EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMO.

Instead , we have sorcs that just spam it to run away.

Not that it matters , zen nerfed it once and i hope they do it again , sorcs are still using to run over the hills.

Maybe then they will be ones who will have to show they got a brain and made an actually fair build.

SilverWF

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Instead , we have sorcs that just spam it to run away.

And how it can be OP??

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

Daethz

If they ever undo the fix to this spell.
Id like to see DK's Obsidian Shard be buffed into WoW's paladin bubble, that way we both have ways to run away from people in combat.

ZOS_TristanK

Hey, guys. We moved this from the Support section to the Class Skills section so other fans can see it and provide their feedback. Thanks!

Nox_Aeterna

SilverWF wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Instead , we have sorcs that just spam it to run away.

And how it can be OP??

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

I dont think you understand how a fair fight works hehe.

Let me put it this way , in a fair fight , both sides should have a fair chance to win.

Right now , that is not the way it works.

Either the sorcs wins (they killed the player , cause you know , sorcs do win fights also) OR the sorcs run away.

That is the reason it was nerfed and the reason it should be even more nerfed.

With that said , just having a target to teleport the sorc back would have made this balanced since the start.

Nox_Aeterna

Daethz wrote: »

Another idea:
Combat Exhaustion: You have successfully fled from near death on the battlefield, for the next 30 minutes you are too tired to use any ability and swing your weapon"
(Removes on death)

I dont think there would be bolt qq if that was added.

Problem with this is , the guy the sorc run from , yeah the guy who won the fight.

He also will count , so now , he is stuck for 30 mins because of the sorc.

I dont know how they could possibly track which side should have won , so both survivors would be hit.

Venithar

Daethz wrote: »

Another idea:
Combat Exhaustion: You have successfully fled from near death on the battlefield, for the next 30 minutes you are too tired to use any ability and swing your weapon"
(Removes on death)

I dont think there would be bolt qq if that was added.

So, you won't mind having an insta heal exhaustion either, where you can no longer heal or be healed for 30 minutes after using a heal in combat?

Venithar

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

I dont think you understand how a fair fight works hehe.

Let me put it this way , in a fair fight , both sides should have a fair chance to win.

Right now , that is not the way it works.

Either the sorcs wins (they killed the player , cause you know , sorcs do win fights also) OR the sorcs run away.

That is the reason it was nerfed and the reason it should be even more nerfed.

With that said , just having a target to teleport the sorc back would have made this balanced since the start.

Yes, let's have fair fights for sorcs as well... please remove reflective scales and unstable core from the game.

Daethz

I think ZOS should just get rid of their no cooldown promise for this one spell.

Varicite

I would just like for ZOS to take a look at the mechanics of the new version of Bolt Escape.

Magicka cost reduction applies to the initial cast, but not the additional cast.

If Bolt Escape costs 200 after cost reduction, the subsequent Bolt Escape should cost 300 magicka (50% more than the initial cast).

Instead, it costs 450 magicka for the subsequent cast in the live game currently.

I believe this is a bug, and that it should cost 50% more than the initial cast, not the base magicka cost before reductions.

Also, as an aside, is it intended for magicka regeneration to be halted for 4 seconds ON TOP of the 50% increased cost that currently ignores all magicka cost reductions?

Because right now, this seems like a bit overkill.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

I would just like for ZOS to take a look at the mechanics of the new version of Bolt Escape.

Magicka cost reduction applies to the initial cast, but not the additional cast.

If Bolt Escape costs 200 after cost reduction, the subsequent Bolt Escape should cost 300 magicka (50% more than the initial cast).

Instead, it costs 450 magicka for the subsequent cast in the live game currently.

I believe this is a bug, and that it should cost 50% more than the initial cast, not the base magicka cost before reductions.

Also, as an aside, is it intended for magicka regeneration to be halted for 4 seconds ON TOP of the 50% increased cost that currently ignores all magicka cost reductions?
Because right now, this seems like a bit overkill.

near as i can tell all skills work this way. vamp hp regen reduction gets "overwritten" by hp regen buffs ( like restoring aura). so instead of 80% of reduced regen. its 80% more than unadjusted regen.

this is doing the same thing in reverse. instead of 50% more of the reduced cost. the cost reduction gets overwritten for the 4 seconds. its just the easy way out for them rather than build a buff/debuff priority list.

NordJitsu

Daethz wrote: »

I think ZOS should just get rid of their no cooldown promise for this one spell.

They broke the promise hard with Bitting Jabs already. And they basically added a cool down to BE as well.

Still_Mind

NordJitsu wrote: »

Daethz wrote: »

I think ZOS should just get rid of their no cooldown promise for this one spell.

They broke the promise hard with Bitting Jabs already. And they basically added a cool down to BE as well.

I'd consider it an "added cooldown" if the cost increase was 100-200%. BE is a medium-cost skill baseline, and the "nerf" just bumps it to Encase price range if spammed. Tbh, I wouldn't mind the effect to be a bit shorter so that I could weave Streak better into active combat rotations, but I do like the change, because halting mana regen didn't sit right with me when I used it in combat (and not to escape combat).

As for Jabs, Jabs are fine now. ZOE seemed to have normalized ICD on everything.

NordJitsu

@Still_Mind‌

It still hits your magicka regen in addition to the subsequent cost penalty.

The didn't replace the prior nerf, they added to it.

Still_Mind

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Still_Mind‌

It still hits your magicka regen in addition to the subsequent cost penalty.

The didn't replace the prior nerf, they added to it.

The "Halts magicka regeneration" part was removed from the tooltip. Are you certain?

Makkir

I still can't believe people are crying over this.
I guess it's game breaking when your opponent won't stand still while you mash buttons and kill him.

plaxy186

Bolt Escape Is still Viable as an Escape skill that part of it not really anymore effected by this change, Why it was nerfed was for it to stop being used as a Super Travel Mode to run across Cyrodil or maps 3x faster than a level 50 speed horse could. <-- this was the abuse that got it nerfed not Sorcs using it 3-4 times seperating them selves from combat,

Obscure

There are still sorcs out there spamming it in excess of 10 times back to back. IMO no magicka based skill should be able to be used more than 5 times back to back without some severe drawback. Stamina skills face this type of drawback, and the fact Magicka skills do not is, in a word, bullcrap.

The problems with BE were never specific to BE and continue not to be specific to BE, but now are compounded with a Nerf that accomplished about as much as one would expect smearing a lump of wet dog *** on it might have accomplished. If it's all you have to keep yourself alive you'll deal with the dog ***.

Magicka is imbalanced, not the things that use it. Fix that and the problem goes away. I swear every mother *** complaint about every one of the skills being abused isn't because of the skill, it's because they can cast the mother *** over and over and over, while holding block, without any risk/reward to concern themselves with, with defense bypasses easily exceeding 90%, and with cost reductions that can stacked over -30%. But nooooooo, let's just whip out the Nerf hammer and play effin' whack-a-mole with the skills to make it even harder on players not wearing a mother *** dress and waving around a bit of magic wood, ultimately making the obvious disparity even more effin' obvious.

Guess what builds are spamming these skills making a mockery of the game mechanics ZOS? I'll give you a hint, it's not the dude in Heavy Armor running around with a Two-Hander. Easy fix? Delete the light armor skill line and just watch what happens. A more reasonable fix? Light Armor cost reductions, spell critical, and spell resist bypasses only apply to weapon skills (destro/resto).. Then you have the freedom to fix the classes and bring them in line without worrying about how light armor and staves will be used to abuse the ever living *** out of the intended balance.

Yasha

Its still one of the best skills in the game- I couldn't even tell it had been nerfed after the nerf.....

Armitas

@‌Obscure

You seem to understand the the fine details of the problem. What do you think about the following instead of the current nerf to balance BE without effecting the individual skill?

A new stat bar is added called power. Power = ((Stamina + Magicka)/2). All block, dodge, interrupt etc consumes power rather than stamina. Any skill that needs a restriction, due to spamability (BE/gap closers) would be tied into the power system. When the skill is used an exhaustion debuff is applied for a short duration. If the skill is used again while under the exhaustion debuff then power will be consumed and the exhaustion debuff will stack to a higher tier with a higher consumption. If one runs out of power while under the exhaustion debuff then the skill cannot be cast until the power to do so is available or the dubuff times out.

1) It fixes the double consumption of stamina for weapon users.
2) Puts weapon users on par with block casters without effecting blockcasters (you can block while using weapon skills)
3)Lets BE remain fully tactical while ending the boltboltboltbolt garbage.
4)Catches gap closers into the same system
5)Talon spam should be included into the debuf
6)Adds an effective GCD without ever adding an actual GCD. One can still spam if they want it will just have detrimental consequences.

yelloweyedemon

Armitas wrote: »

Any skill that needs a restriction, due to spamability (BE/gap closers) would be tied into the power system.

They should just go ahead and add a 2-4 sec CD to all skills in game IMO. It eliminates poor gameplay (spaming 1-2 skills and rarely using the rest) and should clear many problems.

I don't think spamming 1 or 2 should get you rewarded in any situation.

Obscure

@Armitas
I could get behind that and push. Though I'm not entirely sure I've warmed up enough to the idea of an additional resource pool to manage. It's hard to say how it would effect the meta game. Despite the optimist in me saying it'll work to foster more build viability, the pessimist in me keeps pointing at how poorly ZOS juggles three resources and doubts tossing in fourth will improve their juggling act.

Though I'm very intrigued by the idea of an "exhaustion" mechanic for certain overly abused skills, as the debuff you suggested would function. I'd say instead of pesky timers any of these "powerful" skills should be given an exhaustion kicker just tossed into them and the exhaustion effect simply triggers any time that skill is used while in combat. Exhaustion, even from skills that consume stamina, would always apply to Magicka, and simply is a secondary cost to any skill that can cause exhaustion. Exhaustion itself would simply reduce maximum Magicka by 5% per cast and Magicka recovery is consumed to restore this lost maximum before restoring Magicka (EX: With 50 Magicka lost in exhaustion, a Magicka recovery of 100 first restores the missing 50 to the maximum, then restores 50 Magicka to the Magicka pool). This Exhaustion mechanic would only need to be put on skills that might need to be given additional costs to prevent abuse, but could be used as a general mechanic for all Magicka consuming abilities, giving every Magicka consuming ability an exhaustion cost of varied value (1% - 10% of Maximum Magicka).

I personally don't want to upset the risk/reward balance for Stamina based skills as it stands, I actually find sacrificing defense for offense in the current design to be a good mechanic to foster game balance. Simply put Magicka just requires the same balance producing limitations to bring it into balance. Perhaps another resource pool would work, perhaps it'll only make matters worse, I can't say. Though when it comes down to it the simplest, most eloquent method, that doesn't do anything altogether massive to change the existing system is the best route in my opinion...unfortunately I have no real solid idea of what that would be, though ZOS pays people good money to figure that sort of thing out.

driosketch

People always bring up the running away as the issue. That it could be used to fast travel, superior to even a fast horse, and it's use in combat, in some ways better then your normal gap closers, always struck me as a bigger issue.

Zormac

Suddenly, everybody is a game designer.

frwinters_ESO

I say remove all abilities! Only light and heavy attacks!