I'm finally feeling the sting of the Nightblade at VR2

Troponin

If you Vets are willing to try something in the meantime, you can attempt this build. You can modify this a bit. For instance, if you want a little added healing and want your staff to be single target only, then use something like Entropy in place of Volcanic. I switched out of the medium armor, went heavy, and switched this and it's night and day difference in survivability. I am not level 50 yet, but have heard of several people using sword and board like this and doing very well in vet levels all the way to 6+ before having any issues at all.

I know this doesn't "fix" the issue, but it could help until the other fixes are in. I recently went to medium armor and DWing, and honestly, I am missing the survivability I had with this build. This guy apparently went all stam for some reason, claims it gives him the ability to evade everything, but I am not sure I would totally agree with it, but he claims it works really well. take it with a grain of salt and modify it to your liking.

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#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

alexj4596b14_ESO

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

I tried to stick with it, I got to VR2, out of Auridon and into the next Daggerfall vet zone, and if one sneak attack messes up, or i get detected, im usually as good as dead now. This really wasn't the case in VR1, now its a rule.

It'd be great if my sneak attack didn't fail for no reason some times. It'd be nice if dots didn't pull me out of Invis. it'd be nice if Player healing scaled enough to deal with VR damage when solo.

I'm even using a STICK and LIGHT ARMOR.... yup i must be really bad

I really really wanted to keep up with my Nightblade and check out the VR content, but I've since rerolled a Orc Sorc (14) 2handed, 5 heavy/2 light, lots and lots of targeted and PBAOE and just love him. I see his build holding up a lot better in VR content then the sneaky, fragile NB caster.

I'm not having any issues, but I'm only lvl 11 and in the pvp zone I can kill those npc's just fine over all.

jambam817_ESO

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

I tried to stick with it, I got to VR2, out of Auridon and into the next Daggerfall vet zone, and if one sneak attack messes up, or i get detected, im usually as good as dead now. This really wasn't the case in VR1, now its a rule.

It'd be great if my sneak attack didn't fail for no reason some times. It'd be nice if dots didn't pull me out of Invis. it'd be nice if Player healing scaled enough to deal with VR damage when solo.

I'm even using a STICK and LIGHT ARMOR.... yup i must be really bad

I really really wanted to keep up with my Nightblade and check out the VR content, but I've since rerolled a Orc Sorc (14) 2handed, 5 heavy/2 light, lots and lots of targeted and PBAOE and just love him. I see his build holding up a lot better in VR content then the sneaky, fragile NB caster.

I'm not having any issues, but I'm only lvl 11 and in the pvp zone I can kill those npc's just fine over all.

as stated in my original post this as regards to veteran rank 1 in above. The normal levels 1 through 50 are not an issue.

alexj4596b14_ESO

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

I tried to stick with it, I got to VR2, out of Auridon and into the next Daggerfall vet zone, and if one sneak attack messes up, or i get detected, im usually as good as dead now. This really wasn't the case in VR1, now its a rule.

It'd be great if my sneak attack didn't fail for no reason some times. It'd be nice if dots didn't pull me out of Invis. it'd be nice if Player healing scaled enough to deal with VR damage when solo.

I'm even using a STICK and LIGHT ARMOR.... yup i must be really bad

I really really wanted to keep up with my Nightblade and check out the VR content, but I've since rerolled a Orc Sorc (14) 2handed, 5 heavy/2 light, lots and lots of targeted and PBAOE and just love him. I see his build holding up a lot better in VR content then the sneaky, fragile NB caster.

I'm not having any issues, but I'm only lvl 11 and in the pvp zone I can kill those npc's just fine over all.

as stated in my original post this as regards to veteran rank 1 in above. The normal levels 1 through 50 are not an issue.

The pvp area are all vet 5 npc's. That why I said I'm not haveing any issues in the PVP area!

Ysne58

I'm vet 1. Current main bar resto staff weapon -- swallow soul, circle of protection morphed to turn undead, Soul trap morphed to heal if the attack kills, Volcanic Rune and Silver Shards. Ultimate is currently Soul Siphon.

I'm using the second bar to level up Force Siphon, Drain Power and a couple of others on quest turn ins.

Squa

I was too lasy to read all of the comments, but I just want to say, I am a vet 4 NB tank, and I have no issue with groups of 4 or 5 mobs. With 3, there is no chance of a loss, with 4 or 5, its only if I mess up or the game lags.

I use 5 heavy 2 light, shield and 1h. My main skills are shield bash, leaching strike, volcano rune, and either veil of blades or soul tether for the ult. I situationaly use mark target, refreshing path, and soul siphon.

Lyall84

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Are you guys all using light armor? Or mix of light/med? Any heavy at all? Using light is what is stuffing up my survivability.

And the only mitigation/avoidance skills I can really use are Blur, Annulment or Evasion or Immovable (and their morphs).

If you compare class defensives:

Sorcerer
- Lightning Form (+ armor and spell resist)
- Bound Armor (constant + armor at cost of magicka)

Dragonknight
- Spiked Armor (+ armor)
- Reflective Scale (spell reflect)
- Dragon Scale (self-heal)
- Obsidian Shield (damage absorb)

Templar
- Sun Shield (damage absorb)
- many self heals

Nightblade
- Blur (increase avoidance)
- Summon shade (reduce inc damage)

Obviously not every class is the same. I'm more familiar with the other mitigation abilities for other classes as I levelled my NB as a stealth melee and tried to burst down mobs before they could damage me. But even while levelling 1-50 I found whenever I got into a new zone I had to swap out my medium armor for heavy and then replace it again as I levelled up and got more powerful. For the other classes I've levelled (templar 40, dk 42, sorc 32) I've just used one of those mitigation abilities and I haven't had a problem.

What am I missing in terms of damage/mitigation? Frinzee above mentioned using CC with the Fear which I will try. But for specific damage mitigation what have I missed, other than the armor skills?

For sorcerer you forgot the ward in daedric summoning, approx 30% health shield

ozgod22_eso

For sorcerer you forgot the ward in daedric summoning, approx 30% health shield

Oh yes Conjured Ward.

Jaxom

I hit my wall at VR3 and swapped to dual restro staff and havent looked back. VR9 currently. There is no way in hades that I could have finished some of the story line quests without it (looking at you Queen of Blades, vr7 story boss). Nearly Impossible for a NB without a resto staff.

Lyall84

Samadhi wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

...
My suggestion, make the invisibility last for the full 2.9 seconds unless another ability is triggered. Not saying make us immune to the damage of DoTs or AoE or anything overpowered. I am saying that for the whopping 420 magicka we have to spend each time we cast that, we should stay invisible for the full 2.9 seconds unless we cast another ability. Make it so the only thing that can negate that invisibly is another Night Blade with Piercing Mark.
...

Magelight and Detection potions should still serve as invisibility counters.
Also, the spellcrafting system when it is added should have a Detect Life skill available in line with previous Elder Scrolls games.

I make this statement as a V4 Magicka build Nightblade with Shadowy Disguise on both of my bars.

I'd like to see Shadowy Disguise give 100% weapon and spell crit for its duration.

Stealth counters sure, but not invisibility. The reason I say that, is because at least with the mark it can be cleansed off, or I am only vulnerable to one player or a set about of time. Mage light would completely negate our only major defense. While all other classes get full benefits of there major defense skills no matter what.

And I think disguise is suppose to effect magic critical.

steinernein

2H , full medium, NB haven't hit any walls at VR3 and probably won't ... ever.

I can take on about 6 without using ult, but that requires popping a potion depending on how RNG things get, and requires me to pay a lot more attention (though ranged mobs means I have to be a lot more conservative).

Double Take, Sap, Brawler, Elude / Momentum / Executioner , Siphon and Veil.

Pretty standard.

Chelo

I quit the game and unsub, Im thinking about coming back 6 months later to see what happend with the updates...

Bezz

Volcanic Rune, Killer's Blade, Concealed Weapon, Ambush, Shadowy Disguise.
Why people are having problems I just won't understand.

Tripp3r

Dude i'm VR 3 and iv'e been through everything you have stated so far.
the other day i got bored so i respecced.
duel weild swords
bow
7 piece medium set up.
set bonuses and traits and enchants
and it's all blue.
i than took about a full day just theorizing my abilities and how they all work, and how i can get them to compliment each other.
assassination
Shadow
Vamp
duel wield
bow
^ the only ability tree's i use.
i than started reading reddit posts about how this games combat actually worked, so i knew what to block, why, and when essentially...

anyway after a full day of doing all that ^ i managed to make a build that actually works.. and the weird thing was it was only slightly different to my original build when i first started playing.

I mean, i can kill PVE mobs now... 3-4 mobs per group, no problem.
I actually manage to kill quite a few VR12's.

I'm not intending to put anyone down with this following comment.. just saying..
Personally i feel a lot of people who are hitting VR content and around VR3 finding it impossible are simply dealing with a pretty significant difficulty change for example, most of my friends agree on the fact that at level 49 they were steam rolling through mobs than VR1 suddenly 2+ mobs would slaughter them.
people need to understand.. that VR content isn't meant to be easy.. at least not yet... you can't just walk in and go 1-3-2-4-5-5-5-r-r-r-r-2-2-2-2-2 to kill things anymore, if you actually think about it, how many times do you remember blocking in levels 1-49?

TL;DR I can kill things now, because i researched the games combat mechanics properly, and now i know when to block effectively.

ozgod22_eso

Jaxom wrote: »

I hit my wall at VR3 and swapped to dual restro staff and havent looked back. VR9 currently. There is no way in hades that I could have finished some of the story line quests without it (looking at you Queen of Blades, vr7 story boss). Nearly Impossible for a NB without a resto staff.

@Jaxom‌ What do you have on your action bars for both Destro and Resto?

ozgod22_eso

Tripp3r wrote: »

Dude i'm VR 3 and iv'e been through everything you have stated so far.
the other day i got bored so i respecced.
duel weild swords
bow
7 piece medium set up.
set bonuses and traits and enchants
and it's all blue.
i than took about a full day just theorizing my abilities and how they all work, and how i can get them to compliment each other.
assassination
Shadow
Vamp
duel wield
bow
^ the only ability tree's i use.
i than started reading reddit posts about how this games combat actually worked, so i knew what to block, why, and when essentially...

anyway after a full day of doing all that ^ i managed to make a build that actually works.. and the weird thing was it was only slightly different to my original build when i first started playing.

I mean, i can kill PVE mobs now... 3-4 mobs per group, no problem.
I actually manage to kill quite a few VR12's.

I'm not intending to put anyone down with this following comment.. just saying..
Personally i feel a lot of people who are hitting VR content and around VR3 finding it impossible are simply dealing with a pretty significant difficulty change for example, most of my friends agree on the fact that at level 49 they were steam rolling through mobs than VR1 suddenly 2+ mobs would slaughter them.
people need to understand.. that VR content isn't meant to be easy.. at least not yet... you can't just walk in and go 1-3-2-4-5-5-5-r-r-r-r-2-2-2-2-2 to kill things anymore, if you actually think about it, how many times do you remember blocking in levels 1-49?

TL;DR I can kill things now, because i researched the games combat mechanics properly, and now i know when to block effectively.

@Tripp3r‌ I was running with a DW/1H spec with medium armour and I haven't had problems with that. What I want to know is how people are getting a destro/resto spec to work while levelling through vet.

captain_awesome

Alikr Desert and Bangkoria is where it hurts hard for NB before that it started to get tough around some of the V6-7 areas. Solo there (in V9-10 areas) as a Medium armour Dagger user is hard work. I'm there at V7 now and damn, it's just not fun at all, 95% not fun if I was forced to put a number on it. I really don't feel like logging into my NB at the moment.

My Templar is V12 and while it had some tough times getting max level, it does not compare to how bad the NB is. Templar was fun to get Max level, difficult but doable if you changed skills regularly to get past different mobs. NB is really really really not fun at high levels. And I wont farm though it at anomalies.

So I rolled a DK and a Sorc. Both level 14 at the moment.

Jaxom

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

I hit my wall at VR3 and swapped to dual restro staff and havent looked back. VR9 currently. There is no way in hades that I could have finished some of the story line quests without it (looking at you Queen of Blades, vr7 story boss). Nearly Impossible for a NB without a resto staff.

@Jaxom‌ What do you have on your action bars for both Destro and Resto?

@ozgod22_eso I use Swallow Soul, Impale, Crippling Grasp, Mass Hysteria, Leeching Strikes (toggled on). DPS runs between 300-400 on average so it's not amazing for dungeons but is fantastic for world bosses and solo questing. On average I am healing 350 HPS between, everything.

On my Second bar (this one changes frequently), I have Dark Cloak, Healing Ward, Mutagen. Concealed Weapon (for the speed), and the 5th tends to be whatever. For PvP, my second bar changes a bit more so I have Ambush and Impale on this bar as well.

For ultimates I use Soul Strike (Soul Skill Line) and Veil of Blades.

What I try to do is for groups of 3, use my second bar to burst the first mob down, then swap to bar 1, use the fear and kill the rest. On most pulls, I wont even take damage if I time my fears correctly. Fear works on almost all mobs (except the ones that cant be cc-ed, which arent a lot when you are solo questing).

Without Veil, and the self healing, that Queen of Blades quest specifically, would have been near impossible. She spawns like 5 whisps and splits herself into 3. Since this is solo only (story quest), I cannot think of another way to beat her with how the current NB problems exist.

Troponin

Tripp3r wrote: »

Dude i'm VR 3 and iv'e been through everything you have stated so far.
the other day i got bored so i respecced.
duel weild swords
bow
7 piece medium set up.
set bonuses and traits and enchants
and it's all blue.
i than took about a full day just theorizing my abilities and how they all work, and how i can get them to compliment each other.
assassination
Shadow
Vamp
duel wield
bow
^ the only ability tree's i use.
i than started reading reddit posts about how this games combat actually worked, so i knew what to block, why, and when essentially...

anyway after a full day of doing all that ^ i managed to make a build that actually works.. and the weird thing was it was only slightly different to my original build when i first started playing.

I mean, i can kill PVE mobs now... 3-4 mobs per group, no problem.
I actually manage to kill quite a few VR12's.

I'm not intending to put anyone down with this following comment.. just saying..
Personally i feel a lot of people who are hitting VR content and around VR3 finding it impossible are simply dealing with a pretty significant difficulty change for example, most of my friends agree on the fact that at level 49 they were steam rolling through mobs than VR1 suddenly 2+ mobs would slaughter them.
people need to understand.. that VR content isn't meant to be easy.. at least not yet... you can't just walk in and go 1-3-2-4-5-5-5-r-r-r-r-2-2-2-2-2 to kill things anymore, if you actually think about it, how many times do you remember blocking in levels 1-49?

TL;DR I can kill things now, because i researched the games combat mechanics properly, and now i know when to block effectively.

Can I assume it has to do with the armor and stam bonuses you get from activating shadow abilities/Shadowy cloak and the crit bonus?

I am trying to put together a build like this, but I am finding I can't come up with a 5 skill combo that gives me what I need. Any way you can help me out a little and peak at what you passives you are utilizing etc?

BTW, not sure where you get the idea that people can get away with not blocking or dodging. By level 10+, the heavy damage in groups of 3 becomes insane and I was dying on almost every pull until I got the add on that would tell me when there was incoming heavy damage etc.

Pinn

Gave up on my NB at VR 9. Sorc is now level 16 but playing less. Minor tweaks are not the answer. Some kind of fix for stamina builds is what's really needed but may be beyond the dev's ability to re-balance. I mean you want better survivability in pve but don't want to see one shotting in rvr.

Maybe some weapon dam passives linked to class or medium/heavy armor. Dunno.

jambam817_ESO

Pinn wrote: »

Gave up on my NB at VR 9. Sorc is now level 16 but playing less. Minor tweaks are not the answer. Some kind of fix for stamina builds is what's really needed but may be beyond the dev's ability to re-balance. I mean you want better survivability in pve but don't want to see one shotting in rvr.

Maybe some weapon dam passives linked to class or medium/heavy armor. Dunno.

I'm actually in the same position. Rolled an Orc Sorc lvl 16 but my interest has just declined. Its unfortunate to spend over a week of /played on a character only to find out it cannot be what you had intended at the start.

They need to normalize 1-50 and Vet Level mob behavior/damage so that unique builds aren't squashed once you hit Veteran rank.

yelloweyedemon

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

If you compare class defensives:

Sorcerer
- Lightning Form (+ armor and spell resist)
- Bound Armor (constant + armor at cost of magicka)

Dragonknight
- Spiked Armor (+ armor)
- Reflective Scale (spell reflect)
- Dragon Scale (self-heal)
- Obsidian Shield (damage absorb)

Templar
- Sun Shield (damage absorb)
- many self heals

Nightblade
- Blur (increase avoidance)
- Summon shade (reduce inc damage)

Obviously not every class is the same. I'm more familiar with the other mitigation abilities for other classes as I levelled my NB as a stealth melee and tried to burst down mobs before they could damage me. But even while levelling 1-50 I found whenever I got into a new zone I had to swap out my medium armor for heavy and then replace it again as I levelled up and got more powerful. For the other classes I've levelled (templar 40, dk 42, sorc 32) I've just used one of those mitigation abilities and I haven't had a problem.

What am I missing in terms of damage/mitigation? Frinzee above mentioned using CC with the Fear which I will try. But for specific damage mitigation what have I missed, other than the armor skills?

So, templar has "many self heals" and we have none?

Killer's Blade: Restores 20% of health on kill ...

Mark target: Restores 40% health on kill ... (can be morphed to restore 60%)

Catalyst (trait): 30% greater potion effectiveness

Refreshing path: Slightly healing player

Strife - (Swallow soul) - Great HoT

Siphoning Strikes - (Leeching Strikes): restore 2.5% health on basic attack hit

* Mark Target - (reaper's mark) when used with Killer's blade) can restore 80% of player's health on kill*

Oh- and it's not over...

-Mitigation-

Shadow barrier (trait): gives a gazillion of armour and spell resistance when coming out of stealth for 4 secs

Consuming Darkness: 60% damage reduction for 12 secs

...

I've had no problem with my NB through ANY content, and most probably I'll never have.

I won't deny that there are some bugs that need to be fixed, but the class does not need any massive boosts. I don't want an easymode killing machine, where I won't even have to stealth.. The doom n' gloom on the forum is just ... (what's the word for 2 levels above overkill?)

Also No, I'm not some genious or the best player in the world, i just know what my class is capable of, and what to use depending on the situation.

From what I have seen I could easily say that a good 80% of the NB's do not know their class. (And I'm being generous with the percentage...)

ozgod22_eso

Jaxom wrote: »

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

I hit my wall at VR3 and swapped to dual restro staff and havent looked back. VR9 currently. There is no way in hades that I could have finished some of the story line quests without it (looking at you Queen of Blades, vr7 story boss). Nearly Impossible for a NB without a resto staff.

@Jaxom‌ What do you have on your action bars for both Destro and Resto?

@ozgod22_eso I use Swallow Soul, Impale, Crippling Grasp, Mass Hysteria, Leeching Strikes (toggled on). DPS runs between 300-400 on average so it's not amazing for dungeons but is fantastic for world bosses and solo questing. On average I am healing 350 HPS between, everything.

On my Second bar (this one changes frequently), I have Dark Cloak, Healing Ward, Mutagen. Concealed Weapon (for the speed), and the 5th tends to be whatever. For PvP, my second bar changes a bit more so I have Ambush and Impale on this bar as well.

For ultimates I use Soul Strike (Soul Skill Line) and Veil of Blades.

What I try to do is for groups of 3, use my second bar to burst the first mob down, then swap to bar 1, use the fear and kill the rest. On most pulls, I wont even take damage if I time my fears correctly. Fear works on almost all mobs (except the ones that cant be cc-ed, which arent a lot when you are solo questing).

Without Veil, and the self healing, that Queen of Blades quest specifically, would have been near impossible. She spawns like 5 whisps and splits herself into 3. Since this is solo only (story quest), I cannot think of another way to beat her with how the current NB problems exist.

@Jaxom‌ I will definitely try that setup out. I don't have Mass Hysteria yet but it won't take too long to level the fear to that morph. And what mix of light/med/heavy are you using?

Jaxom

I'm running 7/7 light for the passives. Too good to pass up until they make medium armor on par

Tamanous

evandarrowb14a_ESO wrote: »

I was too lasy to read all of the comments, but I just want to say, I am a vet 4 NB tank, and I have no issue with groups of 4 or 5 mobs. With 3, there is no chance of a loss, with 4 or 5, its only if I mess up or the game lags.

I use 5 heavy 2 light, shield and 1h. My main skills are shield bash, leaching strike, volcano rune, and either veil of blades or soul tether for the ult. I situationaly use mark target, refreshing path, and soul siphon.

It has been stated too many times for people to keep missing the point. The game only supports 2 ways to compete in late vet ranks:

Take X class and make it into an AOE tank.
Take X class and make it into an AOE mage.

You made an aoe tank. You are not addressing the real issues by telling everyone you took 1 of the only 2 builds this game supports at this time. Also it is NEVER a good idea to start out your post with, "I was too lazy to read all the comments".

fallensbane_ESO

Even with all the bugs I was able to carefully handle myself up in the VR's. Until I hit the VR7 specific zone. All of a sudden things are just tearing me apart there. There is virtually no room for error if I go up against a group of three or I am dead. =/