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"Hunding's Rage" Damage bonus Broken
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Sorry for not being clear. I am coming from DAOC.
Weapon Style = Weapon Ability.
It still does not increase your weapon ability.
If this was Daoc the set would buff your "weapon skill" but only when you are using "styles".
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ishilb14_ESO✭✭✭✭WITHOUT the HR set on:
Hit someone with crushing shock - 157 x3 damage
Hit someone with twin strikes - 97 damage
WITH HR set on:
Hit someone with crushing shock - 157 x3 damage
Hit someone with twin strikes - 97 damage
Tested both of these against the same DK. I fail see to see what you guys are trying to prove with all that overcomplicated calculating bs. I can look at the damage done and tell, without a calculator, that the set does nothing.
Also, here's the response I got when I sent a ticket about it last week:
"I would like to apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. Someone had left the backdoor open and a passing mob of Ice Wraiths entered into the server room, causing unfavorable results as our equipment is not "100% Cold Proof."
At the current moment, we are actively tending to these issues. Once the patch fix rolls out, this armor set will be restored to 100% functionality. We announce all our patches in the official forum and social media sites with a detailed list of issues addressed." From someone named "Jonathan".
How do you think I felt when I got this as a response? "Jonathan" is lucky he wasn't near me.
I canceled my sub last week. I'll come back to this game when they fix forward camps and this armor set. Hopefully they get their heads out of their asses and start fixing stuff like this because I've made 5 legendary pieces of this set and I'm not the only one who has, and guess what, none of us are happy about it.Edited by ishilb14_ESO on June 16, 2014 6:58PMOriginal DC #Bloodthorn2014
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Officer - Mega Best Friends
Officer - Eminent Gaming1 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭OK. Since last test was inconclusive, tried to do another one. This time tried a 3rd setup with Death Wind also. (6 damage added, white set)
Weapon used. White V5 Maul. No food. Test Subject. V5 Bears outside Rift.
With Hunding Rage ON,
Wrecking blow hits for 403.
(made a mistake and didn't took a clear hit from Brawler, sorry).
With Hunding Rage OFF,
Wrecking blow hits for 372.
Brawler hits for 128.
With Hunding Rage OFF, and Death Wind ON (6 dmg)
Wrecking blow hits for 372.
Brawler hits for 126.
I am surprised that Stampede, hits for 312 no matter the armour set though. Shouldn't get a bonus, even if little, from Hunding Rage set?
It is an ability after all. Damage bonus should apply to it.0 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »I can look at the damage done and tell, without a calculator, that the set does nothing.
But you cant understand WHY it does nothing, assuming it does nothing, because oddly on my character it does indeed do more damage.Edited by Gisgo on June 16, 2014 6:59PM0 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »I am surprised that Stampede, hits for 312 no matter the armour set though. Shouldn't get a bonus, even if little, from Hunding Rage set?
It is an ability after all. Damage bonus should apply to it.
Yes it should and you might have found a new bug.
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These setbonuses read all to well sometimes. Its the same with the soulshine set, basically the magicka version of hundings rage except its heavy armor T.T
I used 3 jewelry and 2 armorpieces. Only a few spells got the damage bonus but no weapon skill spells, like staff spells.
The sets may not be broken, just the tooltip isn't very helpful sometimes.0 -
Andy22✭✭✭The skills take exactly 63% of the weapons damage not "around 50%". I already took that into the equation.
Than your equation is not very accurate or simply incorrect. Here is the simplified formula for your weapon skill damage using stamina.
Tooltip_DMG = (Max. Stamina /20) + (Weapon Damage /1.9) * skill_coeff * rank_coeff.
V12 Softcap Examples:
Example1: 1100 Sta and 150 Weapon Damage- no Hundings: DMG = (1100 /20) + (150 /1.9) * coeffs = 134 * coeffs
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (1100 /20) + ((150*119%) /1.9) * coeffs = 149 * coeffs
Thats a 11.19% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
Example2: 2100 Sta and 150 Weapon Damage- no Hundings: DMG = (2100 /20) + (150 /1.9) * coeffs = 184 * coeffs
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (2100 /20) + ((150*119%) /1.9) * coeffs = 199 * coeffs
Thats a 8.15% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
Example3: 2100 Sta and 189+36 Weapon Damage(Softcap + 3*Epic Rings/Neck)- 36 extra weapon damage is diminished by around 46% to 16 Weapon damage
- no Hundings: DMG = (2100 /20) + ((189+16) /1.9) * coeffs = 213 * coeffs
- after softcap Hundings only provides 46% of its effect = 8.74%
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (2100 /20) + ((189+16)*108.74%) /1.9) * coeffs = 222 * coeffs
Thats a 4.22% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
As you can see there is no "fixed" 63% and i have no clue how you came up with this number anyway?
I noted the 50%, since thats the usual endgame contribution if you have around 2100 stamina and 200+ Weapon Damage, since than each term results in the same 105 contribution, which effectively is a 50/50 damage contribution split.ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »I fail see to see what you guys are trying to prove with all that overcomplicated calculating bs. I can look at the damage done and tell, without a calculator, that the set does nothing.
Than you simply did not read all posts, which is understandable. I have pointed out that Hundings is not working for Staff abilities and thats either a bug or tooltip problem.
I also don't understand why people fail to realize that this set is probably the best stamina set u can get even if u are at softcap.
So lets compare it against the 5 piece 5% crit set:- 5% more crit = 2.5% more DPS
- at 2100 stamina and 200 WD: 19% "Weapon Damage" * 46% DR = 8.75% * 50% damage contribution = 4.37% more DPS.
We could try to argue that we also gain Ultimate 2-4% faster with the crit set and hundings does not effect light/heavy attacks. So maybe the crit set gets to 3% or 3.5% more DPS, which makes Hundings still come out ahead.
If you are a NB and you use siphoning strikes, you also do not reach the softcap, so hundings effectively nearly negates your siphoning toggle. In this case no other stamina build set, comes even close to hundings.Edited by Andy22 on June 17, 2014 12:10PM1 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭I am using a 134 damage VR9 weapon when I am VR11. So as far as I know, no where near the softcap. Only time I can get the weapon damage to go overcharged is if i go VR11 weapon and use accessories that add weapon damage.
You should find where the softcap is for you and how many points you are below it; if the Hunding Rage does not bring you above the softcap and you still get less than 12% damage bonus then yes it is broken; but you didnt prove it yet.
You ran a lot of tests and forgot to check your weapon damage soft cap, possibly the most important stat to check.
softcap for VR 11 is like 180. So well below. The soft cap changes to 174 in Cryo for some reason.
While I did not check the soft cap. I purposely did this test with lower level, white gear just so i would not be anywhere close the soft cap. So, I already know that was an important stat to be aware of.Edited by Lyall84 on June 17, 2014 4:14PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭So if you are already near or at weapon damage soft cap this set is pretty bad to get, because of the diminishing returns of overcharge on weapon damage? Or does this buff not get affected by overcharge? It seems very confusing. Wouldn't white damage be the best way to test the actual increase to weapon damage IE just spam heavy attack with and without bonus below weapon overcharge and then again when it would push you over?
only effects abilities, not normal or heavy attacks.0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭fambaab16_ESO wrote: »These setbonuses read all to well sometimes. Its the same with the soulshine set, basically the magicka version of hundings rage except its heavy armor T.T
I used 3 jewelry and 2 armorpieces. Only a few spells got the damage bonus but no weapon skill spells, like staff spells.
The sets may not be broken, just the tooltip isn't very helpful sometimes.
soulshine only works on channeled spells i think. Like Soul Assault. Not all spells with a casting timer. Just ones that continue to have effect while they cast. The sorcerer one that uses stamina to restore health and magicka come to mind as well.0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭The skills take exactly 63% of the weapons damage not "around 50%". I already took that into the equation.
Than your equation is not very accurate or simply incorrect. Here is the simplified formula for your weapon skill damage using stamina.
Tooltip_DMG = (Max. Stamina /20) + (Weapon Damage /1.9) * skill_coeff * rank_coeff.
V12 Softcap Examples:
Example1: 1100 Sta and 150 Weapon Damage- no Hundings: DMG = (1100 /20) + (150 /1.9) * coeffs = 134 * coeffs
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (1100 /20) + ((150*119%) /1.9) * coeffs = 149 * coeffs
Thats a 11.19% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
Example2: 2100 Sta and 150 Weapon Damage- no Hundings: DMG = (2100 /20) + (150 /1.9) * coeffs = 184 * coeffs
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (2100 /20) + ((150*119%) /1.9) * coeffs = 199 * coeffs
Thats a 8.15% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
Example3: 2100 Sta and 189+36 Weapon Damage(Softcap + 3*Epic Rings/Neck)- 36 extra weapon damage is diminished by around 46% to 16 Weapon damage
- no Hundings: DMG = (2100 /20) + ((189+16) /1.9) * coeffs = 213 * coeffs
- after softcap Hundings only provides 46% of its effect = 8.74%
- Hundings(19%): DMG = (2100 /20) + ((189+16)*108.74%) /1.9) * coeffs = 222 * coeffs
Thats a 4.22% damage increase using hundings in this setup.
As you can see there is no "fixed" 63% and i have no clue how you came up with this number anyway?
I noted the 50%, since thats the usual endgame contribution if you have around 2100 stamina and 200+ Weapon Damage, since than each term results in the same 105 contribution, which effectively is a 50/50 damage contribution split.ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »I fail see to see what you guys are trying to prove with all that overcomplicated calculating bs. I can look at the damage done and tell, without a calculator, that the set does nothing.
Than you simply did not read all posts, which is understandable. I have pointed out that Hundings is not working for Staff abilities and thats either a bug or tooltip problem.
I also don't understand why people fail to realize that this set is probably the best stamina set u can get even if u are at softcap.
So lets compare it against the 5 piece 5% crit set:- 5% more crit = 2.5% more DPS
- at 2100 stamina and 200 WD: 19% "Weapon Damage" * 46% DR = 8.75% * 50% damage contribution = 4.37% more DPS.
We could try to argue that we also gain Ultimate 2-4% faster with the crit set and hundings does not effect light/heavy attacks. So maybe the crit set gets to 3% or 3.5% more DPS, which makes Hundings still come out ahead.
If you are a NB and you use siphoning strikes, you also do not reach the softcap, so hundings effectively nearly negates your siphoning toggle. In this case no other stamina build set, comes even close to hundings.
I came up with 63% based on the tool tip if every weapon skill, I checked 3 bow skills 3 two hand skills and 2 sword and board skills.
I took 100% off of everything off my character. Then look at the skill damage (unfortunately cannot test it without a weapon equipped) then equip just the weapon. The amount the skill damage increases for each and every one of those skills is between 62.7 and 63.2% of the weapons damage.
So two things just happened. First, you taught me that the % of weapon effectiveness is also based on my stamina levels. Second, you just proved that my numbers are correct. All you did was determine that I have 0 stat points in stamina. So your statement about my equation not being accurate is incorrect.
Also, if everything that you are pointing out with your stamina equations is correct. Then if anything, me, who sees more weapon damage in the total skill damage, the set should be more effective for me vs someone who stacks stamina.
Still does not change the fact that the set is only increasing weapon (after all the math goes through) skill damage by about 2-3% when it should be closer to 8-11% based on a 18% set bonus.
As far as not working for the staves being a tool tip problem. It is a tool tip problem for ALL weapons, none of the HR damage shows up on tool tips. You need 3rd party mods to find it.
This set SHOULD be the best stamina set regardless of the soft cap, but it does not work the way it is suppose to. That is why everyone is so upset. There is even a post from yesterday that one guy got from the help center acknowledging that the set is going to be corrected.ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »WITHOUT the HR set on:
Hit someone with crushing shock - 157 x3 damage
Hit someone with twin strikes - 97 damage
WITH HR set on:
Hit someone with crushing shock - 157 x3 damage
Hit someone with twin strikes - 97 damage
Tested both of these against the same DK. I fail see to see what you guys are trying to prove with all that overcomplicated calculating bs. I can look at the damage done and tell, without a calculator, that the set does nothing.
Also, here's the response I got when I sent a ticket about it last week:
"I would like to apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. Someone had left the backdoor open and a passing mob of Ice Wraiths entered into the server room, causing unfavorable results as our equipment is not "100% Cold Proof."
At the current moment, we are actively tending to these issues. Once the patch fix rolls out, this armor set will be restored to 100% functionality. We announce all our patches in the official forum and social media sites with a detailed list of issues addressed." From someone named "Jonathan".
How do you think I felt when I got this as a response? "Jonathan" is lucky he wasn't near me.
I canceled my sub last week. I'll come back to this game when they fix forward camps and this armor set. Hopefully they get their heads out of their asses and start fixing stuff like this because I've made 5 legendary pieces of this set and I'm not the only one who has, and guess what, none of us are happy about it.
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Lyall84✭✭✭✭
I did all my tests using a 134 damage weapon, and a 18% set bonus. Not the upgraded 22% one.Edited by Lyall84 on June 17, 2014 4:49PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭I think they easiest way for Zenimax to correct this would be to simply make the set bonus increase weapon damage by X%. Maybe not leave it at the max 22% that it is now, but if they did that, it would simplify any math going into the set bonus, and make it effect normal/heavy attacks.0
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭
I asked what is your Weapon Damage (Power) not the damage of your weapon.
On anything above 144 the HR set will give you diminshing returns.
Edited by Gisgo on June 17, 2014 4:55PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭
I asked what is your Weapon Damage (Power) not the damage of your weapon.
On anything above 144 the HR set will give you diminshing returns.
I will double check, but because I am doing these tests without anything else equipped, or any buffs, or additional abilities other than the one I was testing at the time. I think it was the same, but not 100%.
Thank you for pointing that out. I will update.
EDIT: adding the (power) made me realize what you were asking, about on the character sheet vs the weapon damage.
EDIT 2: 134 damage, same as weapon damage. No outside gear, skills or buffs effecting. So yes, still WAY below the soft cap.Edited by Lyall84 on June 18, 2014 3:41PM0 -
Andy22✭✭✭Also, if everything that you are pointing out with your stamina equations is correct. Then if anything, me, who sees more weapon damage in the total skill damage, the set should be more effective for me vs someone who stacks stamina.
Actually yes.Still does not change the fact that the set is only increasing weapon (after all the math goes through) skill damage by about 2-3% when it should be closer to 8-11% based on a 18% set bonus.
I did retest this yesterday and i see a 6-8% damage increase on Flurry and DW Light Attacks.
The numbers u presented are very "vague" and miss some vital infortmation to correctly calculate the damage, so can u repost more complete numbers?
So give us your exact test numbers and damage log values, maybe the different skill coeffs are the cause for this variation?
We need your char level, max. Stamina + Weapon Damage, shown in your char screen and the exact damage log numbers for the exact same mob, using no glpyhs/buffs/debuffs. Make sure your stamina does not change if u go from 4 pieces to 5 pieces on hundings.
Edited by Andy22 on June 18, 2014 9:42AM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭@Andy22
I put in my post that I was using un-enchanted, white gear, no jewelry etc. I still don't know how that is vague, and how you tell me to make sure my stamina does not changed etc. I even said that I was using. No enchants, means no possible change in stamina. I have posted MANY times here, that the weapon damage (YES FOR THE LOVE OF THE NINE, BOTH THE WEAPON DAMAGE AND THE CHARACTER SCREEN DAMAGE) is 134, well below my cap of 180 at VR11.
I understand that you are frustrated that the set does not work for staff users (does not matter to me if only partially or if not at all), but when I pointed out that this set is not working for anyone else as it should you started down this crusade of proving me wrong, when I never said that you were wrong either. This set is like a leaking row boat, full of holes and barely floats. Don't be upset when I point out that you are not the only one in it.
@ishilpatelb14_ESO put in a post that he got a response from Zenimax stating that the set is not providing the intended bonuses. Are you going on a crusade to prove him wrong or demand screen shots? I sure am not. Personally I am happy with the news, at least someone got a response. All I have to do now is wait for the next patch to come out and see if corrections are actually made. If they are or not will prove if he was telling the truth. I for one am choosing the believe him.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭broken passives, broken skills, broken set bonuses, broken quests, broken dungeons, broken bosses and a date with daedric prince of madness is what this game offers.Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on June 18, 2014 4:31PM2 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭
@ishilpatelb14_ESO put in a post that he got a response from Zenimax stating that the set is not providing the intended bonuses. Are you going on a crusade to prove him wrong or demand screen shots? I sure am not.
Customer support does not really matter what do they know about the Hunding Rage set?
Either we have an answer here from the DEVs or we have to find out ourselves.
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Andy22✭✭✭@Lyall84 I guess i need to apologize
So i did retest Hundings properly again and indeed the 6-21% value made no sense in my sheets. I actually found the problem so here it goes:
Hundings Rage actually "add's" the listed percentage value as raw "Weapon Damage", instead of using the listed number as % "increase". This seems like a typo in the tooltip.
So the white V12 set adds "19 Weapon Damage" instead of "increasing" it by "19 %". I confirmed this also using a "6%" low level, "10%" lvl 30 set and also a "21%" V12 set. If i replace the % values by raw "Weapon Damage" values using the formulas that work very correctly, all math works out and makes sense.
PS: This is still effectively double the amount the old pre-patch set had with 5% "increase". If u are under softcap it's also more DPS, than the 5 set 5% weapon crit. If u are over softcap it's less or identically to the 5% weapon crit set.Edited by Andy22 on June 24, 2014 9:43PM1 -
Saet✭✭✭Wow that sucks. Thats a very far cry from what the percentage boost would be. I was thinking this would Raise my weapon based attacks damage a lot and made a nice purple set of this. I'm so glad I didnt make it legendary yet. Still a lot of watse improvement mats though.Saet - stam nb
Hordak - magicka nb
Demigorgon - stam sorc0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭adamrussell52_ESO wrote: »19% is way OP. Like "you should have known" OP.
19% of skill damage maybe, but of the weapons damage before it gets tossed into the skill equation, not really. Especially seeing the sad state of weapon skill dps. Bottom line, even if it is 19% instead of value, with the soft and hard cap being so disgustingly low, higher level weapons can't make full use of the set before smashing into the caps.
My VR12 purple great sword has 160 base weapon damage, 5 set deaths wind adds 7 damage, for 167, flawless dawnbreaker increases by 10%, gets me to 182 overcharged (math says 183 or 184, but it is overcharged ). Go to cyrodiil, drops down to 174. No clue why, or for what reason. So if 7 damage caps me, what use is 19% or 19 damage for that matter? Does nothing for PvP. PvE might still get some benefits, but if the diminishing returns turn that 19 damage into 8 or 9 damage, the 1 or 2 damage increase is almost not worth mentioning, so it needs to be % to actually have value.
Be it straight 19 value or 19%, for higher damage weapons (though HR only applies to skills, so does not show on sheet) the set is useless for PvP at least. At 19% with a VR12 160 damage weapon is about 30 weapon damage, assuming diminished returns cut that in half, you are looking at 15 weapon damage after diminshing returns, vs 19 damage before, which would end in around 9 damage. Seeing how deaths wind caps you, and it is only 2 trait required, it is insulting for the 6 trait to be capped and useless or at best only being a 2 to 3 damage increase. Also, seeing how it applies only to skills, not normal light/heavy attacks, it should be % not value. Value would make sense if the bonus would apply to weapon damage period, not just skills.Edited by Lyall84 on June 24, 2014 11:19PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭@Lyall84 I guess i need to apologize
So i did retest Hundings properly again and indeed the 6-21% value made no sense in my sheets. I actually found the problem so here it goes:
Hundings Rage actually "add's" the listed percentage value as raw "Weapon Damage", instead of using the listed number as % "increase". This seems like a typo in the tooltip.
So the white V12 set adds "19 Weapon Damage" instead of "increasing" it by "19 %". I confirmed this also using a "6%" low level, "10%" lvl 30 set and also a "21%" V12 set. If i replace the % values by raw "Weapon Damage" values using the formulas that work very correctly, all math works out and makes sense.
PS: This is still effectively double the amount the old pre-patch set had with 5% "increase". If u are under softcap it's also more DPS, than the 5 set 5% weapon crit. If u are over softcap it's less or identically to the 5% weapon crit set.
Interesting, never thought of looking to see if the math worked as a value instead of a %. Makes sense why with a 18% set I was only seeing a 8 damage increase or whatever (18 base 50% used for skill, to 9 damage less armor, 8 makes sense) instead of the 8-9% increase that I was looking for.
My next question would be, are they going to fix the set to match the tool tip, or fix the tool tip to match the set (like they are doing with Night Blade leeching strikes, tool tip says 4%, gives 2.5%, so they change the tool tip to say 2.5% instead of fixing the skill).
EDIT: I hate being right sometimes...ninja update in this last patch. They removed the % from the tool tip. Adds 22 weapon damage while using weapon abilities...still better for skill damage than deaths wind, but does not effect normal attacks, not to mention drives me way past the soft cap. Not sure, but the difference in skill damage on HR vs the increase of normal damage with DW...I may switch those up.Edited by Lyall84 on June 25, 2014 7:27AM0 -
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Sihnfahl✭✭✭✭Okay, tested last night with V11 blues (+20).
The results are, unfortunately, mixed due to other passives in play. Some increased as much as 35, some about 10.
We really need crafting on PTS so I can play with the passives.
Although it was fun doing a 2700 dam opener with a 2H...0