Dk's dropping down to a useless class thanks for the nerfs

coryevans_3b14_ESO

If you think Dks are useless now because of a couple small changes, you are over reacting a bit. Also, L2P. Adjust.

Wifeaggro13

drackonir wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Yet another DK crying thread about how his/her OP character is getting "nerfed into the ground" when it's STILL superior to the other 3 classes even AFTER the class balances.

Yet another person who has no bloody clue what he is talking about but he feels like adding his own 3 cents

And sadly none of the problems will be fixed. because very little of the OP had to do really with the Dk and its class . it was largely to do with a certain build and the synergy with light armor and staves. sadly all these dummies thinking it will level the playing field are still going to be gimped because issues of stamina, melee skills and the armor passives were never addressed. unfortuantely Zos is listening and reacting to people who have no knowledge and zero ability to do simple math on the builds. all they see is a dk with spiked armor killing a dozen mobs , and never realizing only 2 abilites were actualy DK abilites.
the future for this game and its longevity is shrinking rapidly which is sad. Nerfing the DK dps would have been fine but destroying its utility before they fixed there *** aggro system and social Line of sight issues was stupid. The End game is just light armor AOE Destro staff at every encounter.

Khivas_Carrick

Seriously now? DK's got nerfed once before to make them not be able to solo content. Now they're getting adjusted, properly adjusted mind you and people are throwing fits?

You guys do know you're still top dog right? That at least you folks are getting some attention and all that, because as a Templar I'm still being laughed at pretty damned regularly.

Second, I will give you this: You have a point here with the weapon skills and light armor, and the issue is that Staffs are too strong and Medium and Heavy Armor is too weak.

Wifeaggro13

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Seriously now? DK's got nerfed once before to make them not be able to solo content. Now they're getting adjusted, properly adjusted mind you and people are throwing fits?

You guys do know you're still top dog right? That at least you folks are getting some attention and all that, because as a Templar I'm still being laughed at pretty damned regularly.

Second, I will give you this: You have a point here with the weapon skills and light armor, and the issue is that Staffs are too strong and Medium and Heavy Armor is too weak.

Not throwing a fit at all and DK needed some adjustment the problem is they nerfed the hell out of utility . it was the DK's strong point in heavy armor with a traditional tank build. the adjusted the DK in the wrong places . Ulti building banner spamming was an issue . only doable in light armor in heavy you had no way of running that ***. Unfortuantely the nerfs destroyed the builds that were not OP. As for templar, your upset because your DPS is not as high as Sorc? Your the best damn heals in game hands f ing down not even a close . Please just remove the Ardent flame line in DK and give me the F ing heals i would be happy as a pig in *** to be able to have a heal role.As it stand s now templar is a far better tank with the nerfs .second anywhere. this is why Zos's every class can do anything fell apart they should have stuck to Post oblivion class system of Daggerfall and arena. Much more complex and much more flexible.

Kewljag_66_ESO

But yet DKs still own the battle field and are taking on 1 vs X and still winning on most occasions.... So to you.. useless must mean you cant beat 1 Vs 4 anymore

YourNameHere

Want an ice cream?

NerfEverything

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic

You instantly lose all credibility. That lunatic should have been banned from the forums long ago.

It is a lot of fun watching the still-OP DKs complain about nerfs. It is even sweeter that the devs straight up told you that you are still OP and are getting more nerfs. Oh so many LOLs.

EvilEmpire

NerfEverything wrote: »

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic

You instantly lose all credibility. That lunatic should have been banned from the forums long ago.

It is a lot of fun watching the still-OP DKs complain about nerfs. It is even sweeter that the devs straight up told you that you are still OP and are getting more nerfs. Oh so many LOLs.

This is where your inability to comprehend really shines. It's not DKs in general that are over-powered. It's the light armor/staff builds that are over powered.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

EvilEmpire wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic

You instantly lose all credibility. That lunatic should have been banned from the forums long ago.

It is a lot of fun watching the still-OP DKs complain about nerfs. It is even sweeter that the devs straight up told you that you are still OP and are getting more nerfs. Oh so many LOLs.

This is where your inability to comprehend really shines. It's not DKs in general that are over-powered. It's the light armor/staff builds that are over powered.

Those of us not running fotm LA and staffs are gimped as all hell thanks to the nerfs. Too bad most are too ignorant to research before screaming nerf mhoar!

NerfEverything

EvilEmpire wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic

You instantly lose all credibility. That lunatic should have been banned from the forums long ago.

It is a lot of fun watching the still-OP DKs complain about nerfs. It is even sweeter that the devs straight up told you that you are still OP and are getting more nerfs. Oh so many LOLs.

This is where your inability to comprehend really shines. It's not DKs in general that are over-powered. It's the light armor/staff builds that are over powered.

Oh really? So a stamina s+b DK isn't stronger than every other classes stamina s+b build? Oh no wait, it still is.

Once again, more LOLs. DKs can't convince people that they aren't OP so they are trying to change the argument.

Leesha

An unskilled player depends on overpowered abilities to succeed. A skilled player adapts to changes and still succeeds.

EvilEmpire

NerfEverything wrote: »

EvilEmpire wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic

You instantly lose all credibility. That lunatic should have been banned from the forums long ago.

It is a lot of fun watching the still-OP DKs complain about nerfs. It is even sweeter that the devs straight up told you that you are still OP and are getting more nerfs. Oh so many LOLs.

This is where your inability to comprehend really shines. It's not DKs in general that are over-powered. It's the light armor/staff builds that are over powered.

Oh really? So a stamina s+b DK isn't stronger than every other classes stamina s+b build? Oh no wait, it still is.

Once again, more LOLs. DKs can't convince people that they aren't OP so they are trying to change the argument.

so that's you're argument? a s+b stamina DK is better than a s+b stamina sorc, so they must be OP?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

colonel_schmeevin

First off I'm a NB but I can understand some of the frustrations. Because ZOS is going about some of the NB fixes in the same way. They seem to think the problems are in the class skills but the majority of the problems lie in class DPS, armors, armor passives, etc. DKs should be extremely hard to kill. But they shouldn't have as much DPS because of this. They can't have both. So if I see a DK taking on 4 or 5 enemies in PVE or PVP, I think nothing of it. That's their role. Now are they supposed to survive without someone healing them? No but they should last a long time. That's their job. Take the heat and let the other classes help out. Everyone seems to forget that the point of this game is to be running around with others and things work their best when diff classes are fighting alongside each other. But unfortunately, veteran content sucks so bad and is so OP that most aren't in those zones so you're almost forced to solo sometimes. But in my opinion they just need to first get the armor and DPS sorted out right FOR ALL CLASSES before they go nerfing class skills for each.

monkeymystic

They are stripping the DK a part, piece by piece.
Next up they are taking away survivability, which is the last thing DKs got.

Other classes have unique factors like mobility, range dps, bolt escape, cloak, group heals, dispels, summons, siphon regen and so on, which makes the classes unique.
DKs are now losing all of that. There is nothing unique with DKs any longer that another class can not come up with through a build.

After the nerfs there are simply no reason to roll a DK instead of a Sorc. A sorc can do every role better, with more variation, range, mobility, summons, DPS, selfhealing/survivability through crit surge and so forth.

DKs can be replaced by anyone because they will no longer have any strong key points, which every class is supposed to have, and every class started out with. Now DKs have none, and they are stuck with 5 meter range.

Imagine if they took range, mobility and summons away from sorcerors, and forced them to play in melee. Or if they took cloak away from Nightblades. Or heals and dispels away from Templars. There would be an outcry.

This is exactly what's happening to DK's now. They are no longer unique as a class.

alexj4596b14_ESO

un_ahri wrote: »

I have almost same thinking with Monkeymystic. Here is the link:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106429/dks-once-again-get-4th-nerfhammer-rip-non-staff-non-light-armor-dks-will-be-useless-reroll-sorc

DKs with staff and 7/7 light armor do deal a lot DPS before nerf, and make people believe this is how "all DKs do it", when its not.

And all people think NightBlade & Templar deals less DPS comparing with DK & Sorc, when its not. Some of my NB & Templar friends also can do 600~800 dps while I am doing the same DPS with Molten Whip build.

Molten Whip build
Unstable flame
engulfing flame
molten whip
spell symmetry
inner light

As far as I know, those who can't do Above-500 DPS mostly are using weapon skills such as bow, dual wield skills as main Dps skills, when we all know that class skill doing better job on dps than weapon skills.

let's see how DK got nerfed into pieces.

Ardent Flame
-- Ult
---Standard of Might: Reduced the damage bonus and damage reduction of this ability.(From 35% to 20%)
---Shifting Standard: The ult points you gained will be disappeared after you move the standard to a new location.

-- Inferno
---the magicka recovery will be locked to 0 while its activated.

-- Molten whip
---slightly increased the post global cooldown.(And there is no announcement about it.)

Dragonic power
-- Ult
--- USELESS

-- Inhale
--- Useless after nerfed.

-- Talon
--- nerfed twice. It says

This ability no longer cost magicka if no enemy got damaged.

but it will cost 2X magicka if there is a enemy affected by Talon

-- Others?
--- simply Tank based skills, and it's quite useless.

Earthen Heart
-- Ult
--- I have to say its still very useful after nerf.

-- Others
--- useless.

What I have to say is the Earthen Heart skill line is totally useless except ult. Molten weapons & Obsidian Shield can only BUFF 4 allies, including yourself where trials have 12 members. And most important problem is that it will buff one ally twice.

Balance is good, but its important to not continue breaking a class completely piece by piece until there are no roles left to fill for that class.

Umm no? The buff needs too be fixed too apply too the whole group. Now scorc's have the MOST versatile everything! Period end of story, however we could still never achieve what DKs were able too do. The one video of a scorc soloing any content was nothing even close too what DKs were doing. The one skill that enabled that needs too be adjusted, 65% of health from
Crits is too high it's needs too 45%. Templars are by far the hardest class too play. When you level them you and you die allot but not because you can't play the class but because you just simple don't have access too the skills you need at lower levels. Templar as a whole is nothing but a support class all of it's abilities are completely support based the only reason that Templars are doing damage is because they have learned too use damage empowering skills. Now because of this support type class abilities and stamina weapon based abilities are subbed par too staff, medium and heavy amour are sub par too light this horrible combination is what's causing Templars too deal subpar damage come paired too DK and scorc.

Now onto night blade! Now NB has been broke from
Before beta period. The class has been so broke players or deves have no idea what would or could come out of that class. Now any OP NB builds right now are due too either 1 something is broken and now allowing for the combats rolls too roll properly or is over tuned. It's just that simple. No one knows what NB can achieve because they are just so broken now.

Now ZoS don't want too lose subs they want money they don't hate any class they want all players too love the game. Simple!

infraction2008b16_ESO

Baphomet wrote: »

DKs basicly were nerfed because a lot of people weren't skilled enough to combat their mechanics. They then took their frustration to the forums where they let their estrogen flow freely - and here we are.

Granted, some changes were warranted by Zenimax went completely overkill with the nerfs.

As they say the dog who barks the loudest gets the bone, unfortunately it's people who don't have a clue and either just got killed by a DK in PvP or saw one of the cookie cutter builds soloing group content chucking their toys out of the pram screaming for nerfs.

And meanwhile as the whole class gets nerfed the whole root of the problem to why these cookie cutter builds are so powerful gets ignored entirely and I bet you'll still see people soloing dozens of mobs or soloing craglorn by facerolling on the keyboard, all this nerf has done is given the people who don't roll the OP builds an excuse to roll them now because they are going to under perform otherwise.

Huckdabuck

monkeymystic wrote: »

Imagine if they took range, mobility and summons away from sorcerors, and forced them to play in melee.

Have you read the PTS notes? This is going to happen to an extent with the increased cost per spammed use although they are being kind enough to give the class an instant instead of casted dark deal which should even out. Most people I know who rolled a sorc have taken BE off of their bars a couple of weeks ago because of the loss of DPS and only put it back on the bar for certain instances.

Artis

they can't be useless while they have those talons.

Wifeaggro13

Artemis wrote: »

they can't be useless while they have those talons.

LOL what talons they have broken since patch they only fire half the time and the radius is 5 meters limited to three NPC's . your kind of shortsighted restraining prison is far more effective of a CC. cast from 15 meters away and not limited in targets

OrangeTheCat

Mephos wrote: »

The Dragonknight is still a bit stronger than intended, and we’ll be making some small changes over time to the class. Our intent—no matter what you read on the internet—is not to nerf DKs into Oblivion (so to speak), but to continue tweaking them until they are in line with the survivability of the other classes.

CONTINUE tweaking! .. yeah, thats when you get used to being OP all the time. every nerf that makes you more balanced (normal) makes you feel like you got cut off a leg.

more nerfs inc.. have fun.

I agree with this and I am speaking as a sorc who is getting the nerf hammer.

What pisses me off is that if we choose to respec because of a nerf or any change in balance, we still have to pay the outrageous respec cost. Reduce the cost of respect to reasonable levels and nerf all you want for all I care.

Muletide

I see these "L2P" comments which I have an acronym to reply... EB4UT: Experience B4 You Talk! The OP problem is not the DK class, it is the DK class that uses Light Armor/Staves. Each chip away at DK is putting the Heavy Armor/S&B tank style DK at an disadvantage in regular VR questing. I'm not looking to be top DPS as a tank or solo Bosses. I just want to enjoy VR questing in the style I want to play! I don't wan't to do the Light Armor/ Staff build just to be viable, my Sorcerer alt already has that area covered.

jimmulvaney

I posted this elsewhere but I think the main problem with these "yet another DK nerf complaint" type of remarks are missing three important points.
- when something gets nerfed due to pvp reasons it also happens to pve.
- the robe wearing, staff wielding DKs are the ones who are Op'd. They put all their magic into attack and save stamina for other skills, defenses and buffs. Technically, if you think about it they are a better example of "how to play the game" because they are an efficient (albeit cheap) use of the class system, unlike Sorcs who use mostly magic and very little stamina.
- lastly, you likely have never played a Hvy Warrior type of DK because if you did, then you too would experience the following...

getting butt-*** over a barrel by the same group of 3 Skeevers in Bad Man's Hallow! Even though my V1 2h Hvy Nord DK maxed out heavy armor, 2 handed weapons, Earthen Heart, and Werewolf... has all passives for those skill lines and then some, is wearing a full set of blue Calcinium heavy armor with 3 health 2 stam and 2 mag enchants, including three pieces of rare armor set and swings a purple Sword (causes splash damage) with Damage Shield enchant and Purple Axe (causes bleeding) with HP return enchant. Still wearing Ring of Duchess for massive Armor boost, as well as Signet of Sancre Tor for massive magic defense and uses the Lady boon to increase armor even further. Reality is that my stamina is so depleted from blocking, dodging and interrupts that all I can do is sit and left-click away. Eventually, I can no longer block even if I do manage to kill the first skeever. I feel like my char should storm the gates of Cyrodil and strangle the emperor with his bare hands at this point... but watch out for them skeevers! and what is your solution?

Prepare yourself for Dennis Leary rant
:dev pushes up glasses: "erm... lets nerf those DKs a bit more.. they are a bit too powerful..." That includes standard of might (the one "thank you jesus" move they have) that they can't spam anyways because it requires ultimate and you have to build it up to use it in the first place. Talons is pointless unless you are in a group to take advantage of synergy. Talons is designed to snare and add a bit of damage... DK TANKS DO NOT USE SNARE BECAUSE WE DO NOT RUN AWAY... it takes too much stamina which we need in order to attack and defend. The most I can do with my magic is add armor buffs or a temporary burning effect to my weapons. The Destro/ Resto DKs use it to attack, not us! Now, I COULD put more magic-based attacks on my skill bar but that is not the way I like to play. I like to crack skulls and backhand my enemies, pound them into the dirt! Like a WARRIOR I want blood on my face and the walls and then end a grueling boss fight with a bellowing war cry! And ZOS said we would be able to play it how we wanted to. How is that possible when my only chance to survive is resorting to magic? There should be a skill that lets you use magic to pay for non-damage dealing buffs in place of stamina... that would generate some more balance.

hk11

marchiggs_707b16_ESO wrote: »

my DK kicks arse learn to play the game and stop qqing this game requires some lvl of skill if ya want to buttonbash go play WOW or one of the other cookie cutter generic mmos out there that hold ya hand and hand everything to you on a plate.

Yes, stop playing ESO and go to one of the only fully functional MMOs available. That is actually pretty solid advice. Using 5 skills requires much more thought than the endless bars that kiddy wow has. Be one of the 4 or 5 cookie cutter specs per class in WoW, real skill lies in only using light armor and staves no matter your class. 40 or 50 specs is for kids.

jimmulvaney

And as a DK I described above I have three slots for magic skills and only 2 for stamina skills because my stamina depletes way too fast to have a third skill based on stamina.

Cimos

Read all the DK whiner threads 2 weeks ago about them being OP.

Now I am reading all the DK whiner threads about them being useless.

I am beginning to wonder, is there anything in between Useless and Overpowered? Apparently not...LOL. You are either overpowered or you are useless.

Quite funny I have to admit. People are so extreme and so emotional.

ThreeEyedCrow

un_ahri wrote: »

-- Molten whip
---slightly increased the post global cooldown.(And there is no announcement about it.)

Next patch changes Molten to only affect Ardent Flame abilities not all Fire abilities.

Loco_Mofo

Confirmed.

DKs biggest sooks out of all classes.

ThreeEyedCrow

psufan5 wrote: »

They are still the most OP class by a long shot, in this game. Period. A good DK will never lose a 1v1, or even a 3v1 in PVP unless its against another DK.

If you want to play a theory crafting game, then a good Sorc will NEVER die to a good DK 1v1.

They will either always escape a 1v1 or out of magicka the DK by nuke-kiting and then win.

Theory crafting on forums is fun!

KracsNZ

Think people are confusing points here. DKs still have some of the best actives and ultimates in the game. Don't mix up the *** stamina skills or the useless heavy armor with DKs. Those are issues across all classes and it's currently light/staff >>>> everything else.

And the DK that's complaining his NB and Templar friends are pulling good DPS now as well... ummm, you're complaining they're now starting to equal you? Seriously? Bet the Templar was in light armor to pull that off to.

jimmulvaney

The point is that there are two types of DKs Magic-based and Stamina-based. The ones people are complaining about being OP'd are the magic-based ones. The ones devs are nerfing are both of them but who is it hitting the hardest? The stamina-based ones. If you want better balance then there has to be a higher MP cost for stam builds (likewise higher stam cost for magic builds) so they can not spam attacks and buffs at the same time. Which is why people are viewing them as over powered.