Endless War - Why rescue Kinlady Estre?

jesterstear

They finally fixed the quest !

But I have to ask, did anyone else rescue Kinlady Estre?

I actually spent a skill point to buy Intimidation just to bust her out of there along with the mages... but why?

I suppose other faction players can be forgiven for not knowing her behaviour in life, but it's got me asking questions about myself.

She threw her lot in with racial supremacists (who remain an ever present threat to the Dominion) and is quite the narcissist and sociopath. In life, she was prepared to stoop to anything in her bid for power, including destroying whole towns and consorting with what we might call "the devil".

But now she's being all charming, and trying to pass it off as merely doing "what she thought was best " and wanting to "have it all". So has this been a transformative experience, or did her initial contact with MB expose her to a corrupting influence as he tried to make her his pawn?

There's an interesting article in the Guardian newspaper from a professor publically admitting he is a sociopath, but finds that if he makes the effort to treat people well, they don't care that it has not come from genuine "empathy".

Perhaps she'll renounce the Heritance and stop being such a pain in the butt. It's what I keep telling myself.

adriant1978

[Disclaimer: I haven't done the quest yet, so maybe this is explained in dialogue]

What's Estre doing in Coldharbour anyway? Didn't she pledge her soul to Mehrunes Dagon towards the end of the Veiled Heritance arc?

jesterstear

Lady Estre after her rescue :



From what I understand, "The Endless War" is a battlezone in Coldharbour where Molag Bal puts his servants that have failed him, and forces them to fight each other over and over, notionally with the aim of winning their freedom.

There are three factions in this endless war, matching up to the three factions of Tamriel, representing the "naughty" of each one. Heritance soldiers , in undead/shriven form and lead by Estre, make up the Dominion contingent.

The Worm Cult are there too. It turns out they have a leader and an origin in another faction, but having only done the Dominion campaign I was never aware of this. Their leader has a Nordic accent. Finally there's some army of skeletons lead by this creepy, jovial bloke with a beard who sounds like a Covenant.

Of course, normally you'd leave them all to rot in hell and kill each other over and over again, but the premise of the quest is that three persons from the Mage's guild, lost in Coldharbour, have been pressed into the armies of these factions and you have to win the game for one of the factions. As a reward, you go free and you can take either the faction leader you fought for or the mages with you. Or you can Intimidate and bring all 4 home.

The rational choice is to rescue only the Mages since they have done nothing wrong to end up in this game. Is there any argument for any of the leaders to obtain redemption ?

1) The Nordic zombie guy heals the injured Breton mage. That's compassion I suppose, though like all the other leaders, he just wants the mage guild npcs to use as elites in their army.

2) Estre shows similar "compassion" for the mage who wants to escape from the game by taking his own life..... so she can use him as a personal bodyguard ofc.. Interesting , this guy is a Dark Elf. I suppose this is a climbdown from the extreme racist position of the Heritance.

Surinen

Please refrain from labeling racial supremacism and racism as something wrong. Do not call her noble behaviour as sociopathic, for it is empathy that binds cattle in its glorification of their weakness.
She is guilty of one thing and for this she should be executed: sharing the ball with Mehrunes Dagon.
from a superiorly bred Mer, that this Altmer perspective, bringing back abomination that once belonged to the only race is a crime against purity.
The Right answer is: roll the dice for the lesser races leader.

silent88b14_ESO

Wrongness is the nature, rather than a label, of the racial supremacist.

Surinen

wrongness is the assumption that racial supremacism is wrong

silent88b14_ESO

Were it an assumption it would be.

Surinen

but it is an assumption, vile assumption. man made agentricks

silent88b14_ESO

Altmer pretensions to supremacy are compensatory, born of an egoistic need that is indicative of deeply-seated fear of inferiority.

Surinen

Altmer display of supremacy is the force of nature; godly action. reaction unites slave morality ridden lesser races in the game of mediocrity.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

Compassion, I suppose. High Kinlady Estre hasn't learned anything from the experience. She's nice now because she wants out, but she'll never renounce the Heritance.

In life, she made deals with Maormer, Goblins, and all sorts she would consider "beneath her." She doesn't let her own bigotry conflict with her diplomacy, so long as she is able to accomplish something that suits her.

However, during the quest, Angof the Gravesinger implies that even if he, Thallik, or Estre are able to leave the Cliffs of Failure, they can't ever leave Coldharbour, so there's no danger in releasing them. At least, no danger to Tamriel.

adriant1978 wrote: »

[Disclaimer: I haven't done the quest yet, so maybe this is explained in dialogue]

What's Estre doing in Coldharbour anyway? Didn't she pledge her soul to Mehrunes Dagon towards the end of the Veiled Heritance arc?

There are a series of documents found in Mehrune's Spite (I think) where she and Mannimarco work out some sort of deal, which possibly gave Molag Bal claim to her soul.

Surinen

please refrain from calling her 'bigot'. she is a racist, as any proper Altmer should be.

ShedsHisTail

I chose her largely because both of the other options seemed completely unrepentant.

I saved her because I figured the more help I had against Molag Bal, the better.
I'm a pragmatist.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i picked angof, he was the only one even slightly repentant of what he had done

jesterstear

I suppose there is the fact that a high profile defector from the enemy's ranks is worth something, even if they're not the kind of person you'd normally associate with. For example, Abnur Tharn.

The Coldharbour version of Estre is much nicer than the Tamriel version, even before the Tamriel version is revealed as an enemy and after the Coldharbour one has been released from the Cliffs of Failure. Although she is oblivious to her living quarters being full of human skulls and implements of torture, merely complaining about the colours being bland. It also seems not to occur to her that she may no longer be welcome "back in Altmer lands" after laying waste to half of them and trying to assassinate the Queen. Seems to have a bit of a blind spot.

ShedsHisTail

Seemed like kind of a waste to bother saving anyone, honestly.
I mean, I suppose I had more cheerleaders for the final encounter, but I don't think I saw any of them -do- anything.

Falmer

Actually, Angof was the only one I felt had a shot at redemption even though I played through as a Dominion character.

I actually felt even after Angof was freed that it was the right choice to make. The other two didn't seem like they had learned anything yet at all.

Pyatra

Falmer wrote: »

Actually, Angof was the only one I felt had a shot at redemption even though I played through as a Dominion character.

I actually felt even after Angof was freed that it was the right choice to make. The other two didn't seem like they had learned anything yet at all.

Yeah, Angof was the least evil of them, he just wanted to go home and become human again.

Lorgren_Benirus

I worked with Angof myself since out of the three he was only one who admitted his errors and what he had done and wanted to do something right, even without asking anything in return. Other two had not learned anything and could have stayed where they were for all I care.

Maotti

Where do i go to get this quest?

EnlilofNippur

jesterstear wrote: »

I actually spent a skill point to buy Intimidation just to bust her out of there along with the mages... but why?

I suppose other faction players can be forgiven for not knowing her behaviour in life, but it's got me asking questions about myself.

Yes, good question, why? If you think that says something about yourself, then maybe it does. That is not a statement of incrimination - at all - but if you feel that way, maybe there is more to it than wondering about it.

zhevon

jesterstear wrote: »

But now she's being all charming, and trying to pass it off as merely doing "what she thought was best " and wanting to "have it all". So has this been a transformative experience, or did her initial contact with MB expose her to a corrupting influence as he tried to make her his pawn?

Possibly redemption ...

The writing in this game sometimes wimps out; there is a DC quest where *** noble is causing Dreugh to kill villagers. You have a choice to have him go on trial or get him lynched. I chose to get him lynched; turns out if you ask around later he got rescued.