Healing - mobs vs players...something is definitely wrong here

Magdalina

I'm not sure that's the right part to post this, but it's the most active one and it sure seems to be a problem in need of attention to me, so I'll post it anyway:)
I'm vet 4 questing at Alik'r Desert. Just before maint, an hour or so ago, I met another pack of 3 aldmeri mobs, healer included. My soulmagic ultimate was up, so I decided to use it on the healer - why not? Soulmagic ultimate, mind you, does about 2.5k damage after morph, in a matter of 3 or so seconds. And as you probably guessed by now, she(trash vet 4 healer. TRASH) healed it. Not only she healed it, but she happily stayed at full health while she was supposed to get deep fried from 2.5k damage.

Now, I know some of you will rush to tell me that I should learn to play. But my problem isn't that I couldn't defeat her - I could, interrupted her healing and nuked her before she could do smth else, not big of a problem for sorc with destro staff. However, it IS a big problem, for, say, Templar tank. I play with my bf who is unfortunate to have chosen this one build, and while he is a good player, healers are 100% impossible for him now. He cannot, in any way, do enough damage to them before they heal again. He literally dies if he meets a healer if I'm not by his side. What the hell, Zeni?

And now the most interesting, in my eyes, part. I myself am a healer. I dps normally, but I heal full-scale in dungeons. My resto staff is 50, I have all the nice +healing passives, Ritual Mundus stone, and I can heal...I'm not sure on exact numbers, but I am pretty damn sure 2.5k per 3 seconds is NOWHERE close to that. So what the HELL, Zeni? Why does a TRASH healer heal more damage than an ultimate can do to her/him? And why do I heal like...7 times less than said trash?

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

He could use Volcanic Rune or Crushing Shock on a Destro Staff to stun them and nuke them. Also I know I've used Soul Assault on Templars in pvp and watched them just heal through it too.

Weberda

Very good question. Bosses don't scare me but opposing healers.....they're the ones that need a good nerf. I play a Sorc and a Dk and the opposing healer is my first target regardless of the mob. Not being a Templar I sympathize strongly with their plight and believe they need some buffing for sure also.

Ingwe

Healer Templar here, I know what you mean....would be interesting to hear the thoughts. Anycase, Templars are just in a bad spot now. I hear even in Craglorn they only take 1 Healer now and 10 DPS with 1 Tank. Sooo ye....

Lifacs

With my DK I either need full magicka with a food buff or my ultimate to kill healers.

Magdalina

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

He could use Volcanic Rune or Crushing Shock on a Destro Staff to stun them and nuke them. Also I know I've used Soul Assault on Templars in pvp and watched them just heal through it too.

He is a tank. He's as melee as it goes=x He uses 2h to dps but he still cannot do enough damage to them. Volcanic rune interrupts them, yes, but not for very long and then you have to either keep recasting it or nuke healer before she/he starts healing again. And he cannot do enough damage to nuke the healer fast enough, again.

BrassRazoo

NPC healers are totally in need for a fix. 100% in 2 seconds with some ignoring all interrupts, especially ranged is just crazy .. why can't I do that?

Weberda

For some reason it is very difficult to do an interrupt and follow-up with enough damage on them. They just heal up too fast particularly the healer bosses. You really need two people on them. i really hate em'.

LadyDestiny

Totally agree with this and we keep telling them. The patch broke it and even when they supposedly tried to revert the damage the npc's were dishing out in the VR zones to prepatch, it failed. They have still yet to fix this, and it is really not enjoyable anymore. Healers are insane to kill. Two handers and sword and boards just plow through you like a rug mat because apparantly they don't believe in being blocked. Archers are way overpowered. I mean seriously, I am a nightblade and my volly does nothing compared to an npc's volly. Why does an npc do far more damage than an actual player? Then multiply that by 3, 4, 5 or 6 npc's on you at once. I can see a boss being tough, and dying a few times till you figure out how to manage the fight, but regular npc's definitely need some fixing. Tired of having to go repair after every quest just to come back kill the boss and repair again. Getting old and wearing me down....I am not alone on this either.

crislevin

mobs hit harder, heals better, i wonder why they don't just grab a peasant off street to save the world from Molag Bal to begin with.

Anyway, key to defeat healer is interrupt. Need to get close and be on guard, bash her when she begin to do that thing.

BrassRazoo

In Reapers March just now (EP VR10) out of all the fights and quests I had it was the run of the mill quest where I had to kill two mini-bosses after freeing a NPC from a cell that caused me the most difficulty.
I can do VR dungeons and solo some World Bosses, but a simple dual NPC mini boss make up of a healer + melee was the most challenging.

Magdalina

It's actually almost scary to see the difference. I have heard a lot about Templar/NB being very underpowered(and further nerfed for some reason), but for the first time I see it make such a striking difference right on my screen. I CAN tackle mobs of 3 with healer without much problem. I can interrupt them, nuke them, have pets to distract them and Negate Magic on top to silence them if things go badly. He can't. In any way o.O And...that just doesn't make sense. He has a lot more exp with MMOs than I do, and I don't pride myself on being such a great player anyway.

So 1)Templars are clearly underpowered compared to Sorcerers(at least)
2)trash healers should NOT heal 2.5k damage in 3 seconds
3)if they do, give me equal healing and I'll be happy:) Seriously, I won't mind it at all if *I* can heal 2.5k damage in 3 seconds, not 300

EDIT: And 4), no one apparently cares>.<

KerisDoin

Im playing templar healer and dps/heal sorc and never had problems with healer mobs. Templar got really powerful ccs and if i need to i just run up and interrupt with bash.
As for the 2.5k healing... as a v12 templar healer my Breath of Life crits for 1.3k (this is only the big heal on the main target without any food/pvp buffs, counting the heals on two additional targets would double this amount) and is pretty much spammable ever since they changed the animation with the last patch, so i can reach that no problem. For my sorc i use Crit Surge healing me by a lot every time my attacks crit, i prolly wouldnt reach 2.5k heal within 3s especially on other people but it still a bunch if i can chain crit.

Ulvich

It's interesting that someone mentioned this. I have noticed the same thing as well. And not just with one type of healer in a specific zone. It seems (at least for me) to be in all zones.
A few days ago I was out on a quest and a came across a healer with two other mobs. I was able to kill the two rather quickly. But the healer? Well, I fought him long enough to recharge my ultimate ability twice. I did everything I could. I even switched weapons several times.
After a while I did kill him. It just took a very long time.

murklor007neb18_ESO

NPC healers has been insane from the start. There is absolutely no way you can outdps it (its just impossible) and you have 0.5 seconds to interrupt a heal because if you dont, they will recover 50-75% HP in the next 0.5 seconds. You literally cannot interrupt them fast enough. Given the 300+ ms latency of the "EU" server... That's not easy to match and often end up with interrupts being proactive. "Is he healing? Nope, bash anyway. Is he healing? Nope, bash anyway. Is he healing? OMG he is and it was interrupted, score!". Its *** and not the way action based combat should be.

As it is now, if you engage 2 healers + whatever you can just roll over and die. You aint going to kill them unless you have either alot of dps or just sheer dumb luck in bringing one of them down. Good luck if there's 2 more mobs with 1.6-2.5K attacks around you.

BrassRazoo

murklor007neb18_ESO wrote: »

NPC healers has been insane from the start. There is absolutely no way you can outdps it (its just impossible) and you have 0.5 seconds to interrupt a heal because if you dont, they will recover 50-75% HP in the next 0.5 seconds. You literally cannot interrupt them fast enough. Given the 300+ ms latency of the "EU" server... That's not easy to match and often end up with interrupts being proactive. "Is he healing? Nope, bash anyway. Is he healing? Nope, bash anyway. Is he healing? OMG he is and it was interrupted, score!". Its *** and not the way action based combat should be.

As it is now, if you engage 2 healers + whatever you can just roll over and die. You aint going to kill them unless you have either alot of dps or just sheer dumb luck in bringing one of them down. Good luck if there's 2 more mobs with 1.6-2.5K attacks around you.

I have the same issue. When I come across a certain combo of NPCs, it's like give up already.
Even with Ult sometimes it useless. Especially as I'm mostly ranged Sorc, I can't just run up to them and slap them in the face with my staff.
Besides I have so little stamina a couple of mistimed hits and I'm empty anyway.

Stuns, prisons and crowd control spells do not work most of the time.

Djern

@murklor007neb18_ESO‌

I feel your pain. The vet healers with Aussie lag are little mini bosses.

I reported this a few times in PTS.

Dorgon

Yeah healers are fun: (Start it at 24:13 for the fight)

http://youtu.be/Kyn3yVj0Ih0?t=24m13s

Note this was just Vet rank 1. Hate to see these babies at higher level.

KerisDoin

Dorgon wrote: »

Yeah healers are fun: (Start it at 24:13 for the fight)


Note this was just Vet rank 1. Hate to see these babies at higher level.

Maybe you should start to use some actual skills instead of just poking stuff with light/heavy attacks. You can chain CC single mobs with Crystal Fragments which is also one of the highest damage skills, you just perform poorly it has nothing to do with healer mobs being OP.

Sidereal

Can't really speak much on the lag, but for what it's worth I am a Templar who has been through all of the vet zones alone.

Your bf, magdalina, is going to want to rock 5 pieces of heavy with 2 light. The heavy is so that he can mitigate enough damage to survive these fights and the 2 light arm pieces provide modest magicka regen and spell reduc. He'll want food, either the kind that increases all three stats, or at least stam/magicka. His potions should be the triple effect kind (health/mag/stam) or in a pinch the ones that increase spell pwr, spell crit, and restore magicka. I personally dumped 40 attribute points into health and the rest (9) into magicka. After that I have a health glyph on my chest and the rest of my glyphs are split equally between magicka/stamina.

Once his equip/items are squared away we can move onto an actual plan for dealing with mobs in regard to our abilities. Used to be you could just spam Puncturing Strike on a healer to keep them in an infinite knock back loop (this will apparently be made so again in the next patch). These days, if you 1 hand and shield, you can get away with simply Shield Charging them every time they're on their feet. After they're knocked down, you can insert whatever abilities you'd like.

If you don't, for some reason, like 1 hand and shield, you can always grab Piercing Javelin. It'll allow you to keep them on the ground to a certain extent, but it's not always reliable and does have a chance to miss/not knock back.

If he uses a bow, venom arrow will interrupt them.

If he wants a gap closer that isn't Shield Charge, Focused Charge is an alternative that interrupts and unbalances them. It can be morphed into a stun.

If he has Sun Shield, he can morph this into Blazing Shield and repeatedly apply it after stunning/interrupting/knocking back the healer to constantly mitigate a fair amount of damage while doing AoE damage to surrounding enemies. Cleansing Ritual can be thrown down to further mitigate damage. While Blazing Shield is active, it's recommend that the Templar either uses white attacks or stamina based abilities to conserve magicka for healing/Blazing Shields.

The above are just a few ideas, but your bf can make it if he tries a bit harder.

kasain

Healers are wdak. You can cc them, then spam uppercut. Tbe jnockback and 4.5 sec stun prevents healing. Hence they die. If you need time due to other adds prism it at some point.

Personaly I hate archers. Cc to slow. But for them stampede.

RangerChad

Anybody else here who started in Ebonheart, got to Greenshade and had to do the "interrupt the ritual" quest? The boss is a pyro lightning healer, oh and you cannot CC it. LOL Most OP creature in the game so far, and was impossible to kill alone. When it gets to 40% hp it does instant cast healing ritual and restores 50% hp which takes about 10 minutes to knockdown.

Dag86novanub19_ESO

Templar has a thrown spear ability that stuns target for six seconds until damaged again. Mix that with interrupt, it can't be that hard.

A tank templar can still use magicka to apply dps templar skills.

Dorgon

KerisDoin wrote: »

Dorgon wrote: »

Yeah healers are fun: (Start it at 24:13 for the fight)


Note this was just Vet rank 1. Hate to see these babies at higher level.

Maybe you should start to use some actual skills instead of just poking stuff with light/heavy attacks. You can chain CC single mobs with Crystal Fragments which is also one of the highest damage skills, you just perform poorly it has nothing to do with healer mobs being OP.

I never said I was good.

Edit: Course I did pick up Volcanic Rune the other day.

murklor007neb18_ESO

Dag86novanub19_ESO wrote: »

Templar has a thrown spear ability that stuns target for six seconds until damaged again. Mix that with interrupt, it can't be that hard.

A tank templar can still use magicka to apply dps templar skills.

Well you see, the problem isnt that its hard.

The problem is that you get a healer down to say 30%. He start channeling. You press the button to throw that spear which successfully hit and interrupt the healer.

But guess what he's already back to 100% HP because the server has a 300ms latency, you where another 0.5s late with pushing the button and the spear had a 0.5s animation time too, so you let him recover for about a second and half.

The way they heal and how you interrupt is fine, no one is complaining about healers healing. But they heal too damn fast. It would be explainable if they had a 3s channel time and then swooped up to 100% HP, but no. They're healing at around 1000 HP per second in 0.5 second ticks (they've basicly healed 25% of their HP before the server even send that info to you).

AlexDougherty

magdalina157eb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the right part to post this, but it's the most active one and it sure seems to be a problem in need of attention to me, so I'll post it anyway:)
I'm vet 4 questing at Alik'r Desert. Just before maint, an hour or so ago, I met another pack of 3 aldmeri mobs, healer included. My soulmagic ultimate was up, so I decided to use it on the healer - why not? Soulmagic ultimate, mind you, does about 2.5k damage after morph, in a matter of 3 or so seconds. And as you probably guessed by now, she(trash vet 4 healer. TRASH) healed it. Not only she healed it, but she happily stayed at full health while she was supposed to get deep fried from 2.5k damage.

Now, I know some of you will rush to tell me that I should learn to play. But my problem isn't that I couldn't defeat her - I could, interrupted her healing and nuked her before she could do smth else, not big of a problem for sorc with destro staff. However, it IS a big problem, for, say, Templar tank. I play with my bf who is unfortunate to have chosen this one build, and while he is a good player, healers are 100% impossible for him now. He cannot, in any way, do enough damage to them before they heal again. He literally dies if he meets a healer if I'm not by his side. What the hell, Zeni?

And now the most interesting, in my eyes, part. I myself am a healer. I dps normally, but I heal full-scale in dungeons. My resto staff is 50, I have all the nice +healing passives, Ritual Mundus stone, and I can heal...I'm not sure on exact numbers, but I am pretty damn sure 2.5k per 3 seconds is NOWHERE close to that. So what the HELL, Zeni? Why does a TRASH healer heal more damage than an ultimate can do to her/him? And why do I heal like...7 times less than said trash?

Indeed, NPC healers plain simply heal too much too fast, they need a delay in their healing ability, it's a bad design.

I don't mind a challenge, but these healers are ridiculous.

BrierTOG

Yes i agree, if we could heal that well, it would be nice.

Dodece

The trash mobs healers are usually doable if you overkill them quickly, but the mini bosses, or full fledged bosses are insanely difficult, and are quite often just plain impossible to defeat solo. It isn't just one thing, but a combination. Their healing is all the more potent, because they have vast health pools, and worse still at higher levels they also receive substantial armor bonuses.

Making it all but impossible even with interrupts to carry the day. You will usually run out of the action pull you are drawing upon to perform those interrupts long before you have depleted their health pool. Meaning they will erase all progress made in that regard in one or two seconds. It is quite infuriating, and it is a poor design choice on their part, or more like a terribly lazy one.

It is quite obvious that their response to make things more difficult was nothing more thought out then just buffing the stats across the board. An obvious bad call on their part. Increasing the stats across the board increased their healing while making it simultaneously much harder to do the damage interrupt combo effectively enough to get the job done.

The Reapers March duo owned me no fewer then six times yesterday before the quest bugged out, and I had to stop, and I am one of the few players that is actually building as a triple threat. I keep a wide stable of well developed, and diverse abilities so I can change up radically if one strategy fails me utterly. It quite simply requires more then one player to complete.

elvigy01

Just wanted to agree that NPC healers are overpowered. Sure, make the bosses harder. But the trash mobs should not be able to heal the way they do.

On my Templar, it's pretty much impossible. I just don't have the CC needed to stop them from healing. On my Sorc, I Rune Prison the healer, deal with the other mobs and then spam Crystal Shards on the healer to keep him/her from healing.

Don't know how other classes handle them but these are trash mobs we're talking about. They shouldn't be able to outheal any player that is equal level or higher. And yet they can.

Dodece

@elvigy01‌

You shouldn't overlook the weapon specific skill lines. The destruction staff line has an incredibly effective knock back ability that can be unlocked. All you need to do is unlock destructive touch, and level it until you can morph it into clench. The clench ability when combined with a fire staff will do a good bit of damage, and cause a knock back effect. Which not only interrupts, but also knocks down an enemy for 4.5 seconds.

Using this move is usually more then enough to eliminate healers from the trash mob equation. The real issue is that bosses have more then enough health, and armor that even if they are susceptible to this effect. They can usually with ease outlast the players action pools, and once those are exhausted they instantly erase all of the gains made. Returning the player to square one. With the added disadvantage that their special abilities are completely spent.

The issue really is one of the gas tank running dry. Yesterday I had a mini boss healer down to half her health, and just ran right out of steam. Just two seconds before my potion timer reset she got back up, and instantly removed all of the damage I had done. To effectively deal with these particular mobs using default attacks is a futile gesture. We are limited in the amount of damage we can do given a set amount of time, but they aren't limited to the amount of damage they can repair.

elvigy01

I actually do have Destructive Clench but I find Rune Prison more useful since it takes the mob completely out of the picture for about 30 seconds. Plus I prefer staying at range, though that doesn't really work on healer bosses. I have to get up in their face to interrupt them with my staff, since they are often immune to other crowd control.