State of the game for NBs - 1.1.2 nerf (dk buff...?)

Solnai

monkeymystic wrote: »

I have NOT made this video, it's from the user "medakonable" on Youtube.

But it shows a Nightblade SOLO Veteran spindleclutch.

Yea it shows a NB tank, use the 2 abilities from the Siphon tree with Shadow Cloak. It does not account for any of our passive or other abilities being broken. Also note there are several videos of NB using Shadow Cloak to solo bosses in PvE (probably due to NB not being very popular in group content), but it does not change the fact that a majority of the skills and passives for the class are not working!

KaedianEQ

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I love that this thread is right next to a thread about how DKs got nerfed.

Thanks for taking this community one step closer to WoW by posting constant complaints about how [x] class is underpowered.

Typical mmo forum thread:

Paper is fine, nerf Rock.

Thanks,
Scissors

Sleepwalker

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're working on an update post on the Nightblade class. We should have it today.

*grasps arms around his knees, rocking back and forth while stealthed*

Soon...

dragnier

GreasedLizard wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

GreasedLizard wrote: »

...

Mark Target is not broken. It's just PvE mobs have 5-7.5% resistance, so the trade-off is pointless other than a Spell Power Buff + heal (not debuff) Can test within PvP with a friend to verify debuff values.

...

Entering combat will always negate your stealth damage bonus and only register as a critical hit.

How does casting a buff or debuff that does not cause aggro in any way while hidden constitute entering combat? Entering combat is when you initiate aggro, not the use of a skill.

I never enter combat, unless I am within aggro range while buffing. You will lose stealth and start crouching again. The 3 sec delay in crouch to fully hidden (this bonus) can be done while popping Shadow Cloak while moving into position.

Let me reiterate, I'm not talking about shadow cloak or its morphs. I'm talking about Blur/Mirage/Double Take.

No matter where I am in relation to the mobs, if I've waited 'til hidden, use the buff, and then attack from hidden which never breaks at all from that skill, I don't get the stealth bonus to the first hit, ever. Just gives me the regular crit without the stealth bonus.

IMHO Mark Target and its morphs should be applicable here too. No reason it should cause aggro from stealth. It would level the playing field a bit. Ignoring 75% of nearly nothing casters have vs. ignoring 75% of what tanks have would equate to more equal stealth crits on that first hit.

Avg Light armor at V10 = around 900-1k. Avg Heavy armor at V10 = approx 2k+

75% of those = 250 and 500+ respectively which would result in only slightly higher crits vs light but much more reliable first hit stealth crits on heavy. Couple that with the fact that we are much more vulnerable to them afterwards and it evens out.

And if you really wanted to make it more fair, they could change it to affect different thresholds of armor by different amounts. Such as, less than 1200 is 40% reduction, less than 1900 is 60%, and 1900+ is 70 %.

That would equal 600 vs. 1k, 600 vs. 1500, and 600 vs. 2k which would make all the numbers about even between light, medium, and heavy depending on your exact amount of armor. This would result in even more equal first hit from stealth crits.

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO

gotta go take a nightblade be right back

Talketzanto

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO wrote: »

gotta go take a nightblade be right back

BRB, let me take out the nightblade, tomorrow is pickup day

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO

yea its kind of a bummer i live more if i use bow but my main build is duel wield

GreasedLizard

@dragnier‌

I haven't tested those buffs. Extensively tested Resto buffs, although I use Cloak a ton to move in. Maybe buff - start crouch - Cloak - position and see if you land big Veiled Strike

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO

all they need to do is fix pressure points passive in assassination now

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO

and fix mark target

ckf12b14_ESO

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

DK's got shield bash nerf (whichthey primarily used), Talon nerf (abused in PvP), and an upcoming huge Banner ult nerf (heavily abused in PvP).

I agree that Nightblades are getting the shaft right now, but let's not claim things that aren't true about other classes in our anger.

That's because those abilities were incredibly overpowered.

NB's aren't and still get the shaft.

I know that? The OP claimed that NB's got a nerf (they did, which I don't think is fair as I stated) and that DKs got a buff (they didn't, they got nerfed, as they should have). That's what I was referring to when I said "don't claim things that aren't true".

dragnier

GreasedLizard wrote: »

@dragnier‌

I haven't tested those buffs. Extensively tested Resto buffs, although I use Cloak a ton to move in. Maybe buff - start crouch - Cloak - position and see if you land big Veiled Strike

That might work, but it shouldn't take me editing like that for it to work. That is called a work around for a bug.

kunchoktashiiub17_ESO

and haste

McWop

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

DK's got shield bash nerf (whichthey primarily used), Talon nerf (abused in PvP), and an upcoming huge Banner ult nerf (heavily abused in PvP).

I agree that Nightblades are getting the shaft right now, but let's not claim things that aren't true about other classes in our anger.

That's because those abilities were incredibly overpowered.

NB's aren't and still get the shaft.

I know that? The OP claimed that NB's got a nerf (they did, which I don't think is fair as I stated) and that DKs got a buff (they didn't, they got nerfed, as they should have). That's what I was referring to when I said "don't claim things that aren't true".

I wasn't clear. The few DK bugs they had were fixed, most of those bugs increased the damage of said spells. Yes they got a nerf, but if anything they're on par with sorcs now, still more powerful than a NB/temp

Kewljag_66_ESO

I am very happy with changes this patch for my NB.

dead enemies can no longer detect you, now i can hide right away after killing them and not get picked off 20 seconds later.

DW got a slight damage increase

Huntingtons Rage set got buffed from 5% melee to 15% at VR1 and 18% at VR10

DKs got balanced more, they are might hardest fight, now i dont have to do everything perfect in the fight to win

snowmanflvb14_ESO

McWop wrote: »

While I love my Nightblade, the fact that our broken class got a nerf as a priority in craglorn over fixing the 10+ broken skills and passives says a lot. Nightblade crit builds were one of the few ways a NB could have fun in PvP and PvE, and now the best part of that build is gone too.

SO while DKs and sorcs have there run of the game right now, the most broken class gets basically ignored.

If anyone knows me, I've been a huge advocate for this game. I've defended it at almost every turn. But its very demoralizing when i see how you (ZoS) prioritize your content and updates. I'm betting we see the invisibility exploit in PvE fixed before we see passives fixed (wasted skill points FYI)

I wont say much more, I'm not one to tell anyone how to do their jobs. I just hope you guys get a balancing patch out ASAP, currently the state of balance is...for lack of a better word...broken. I refuse to make the FOTM class, i love PvP but I will not roll a DK just to do well in it. I'm not unskilled, but i have a really hard time justifying my time in PvP when i cant take out a DK or Sorc with the same cookie cutter builds as the rest of them, and they win simply because of that build.

I'm tired, I'm tired of defending a game who wont defend themselves. The devs are way too quiet about **everything**. We (the gamers) are the reason you'll stay in business, I'd highly recommend interacting with us.

Hm todays fixs hardly seem like a nerf infact they seem to have fixed us a great deal. The change to Death Stroke was the only "nerf" and really it was just fixing it to what it was suppose to be. Overall, I welcome the fixes for us in todays patch.


Nightblade
Fixed an issue that was causing Nightblade abilities to become unresponsive in high-intensity combat situations. This issue is caused by a number of factors, and we will continue to monitor it after this patch.

Catalyst: Fixed an issue with the Catalyst passive ability. It will now properly increase the effect of speed potions.

Dark Shades (Summon Shade morph): This ability now deals more damage as the ability ranks up.

Death Stroke: This ability no longer receives the critical damage bonus when used as a sneak attack. It will still cause a stun and a guaranteed critical hit.

Focused Attacks: Fixed an issue where ranks II – IV of Focused Attacks were not restoring stamina.

Sap Essence (Drain Power morph): Fixed an issue where this ability wasn’t granting the initial Weapon Damage bonus you should receive when no target is hit.

Noobie

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

McWop wrote: »

SO while DKs and sorcs have there run of the game right now, the most broken class gets basically ignored.

You haven't read 1.1.2 notes properly, have you? DK had shield bash nerfed which is a big thing. Both damage and stamina reduction have been decreased.

I agree that NB is broken ATM but see if it works better after the update

SHield bash isnt just a DK ability my NB used that build. Im not mad just switched mains today though due to the problems with NB

ckf12b14_ESO

McWop wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

DK's got shield bash nerf (whichthey primarily used), Talon nerf (abused in PvP), and an upcoming huge Banner ult nerf (heavily abused in PvP).

I agree that Nightblades are getting the shaft right now, but let's not claim things that aren't true about other classes in our anger.

That's because those abilities were incredibly overpowered.

NB's aren't and still get the shaft.

I know that? The OP claimed that NB's got a nerf (they did, which I don't think is fair as I stated) and that DKs got a buff (they didn't, they got nerfed, as they should have). That's what I was referring to when I said "don't claim things that aren't true".

I wasn't clear. The few DK bugs they had were fixed, most of those bugs increased the damage of said spells. Yes they got a nerf, but if anything they're on par with sorcs now, still more powerful than a NB/temp

Except that the bug fixes were only half the nerf. Some of their stats and damages that worked as intended were flat out nerfed.

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. I think Nightblades got unfairly nerfed and they honestly deserved a buff, more so now than ever. But look at the title of the thread itself. OP claimed DK's got a buff. They didn't. They got nerfed in the gut.

jvargas150_ESO

monkeymystic wrote: »

I have NOT made this video, it's from the user "medakonable" on Youtube.

But it shows a Nightblade SOLO Veteran spindleclutch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNESCiD5Wt0

Stop lying... he isn't able to get past the 2nd boss not enough dps.. hench why the recording stop prior to that

dragnier

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

Stop lying... he isn't able to get past the 2nd boss not enough dps.. hench why the recording stop prior to that

Nah, its because the mechanics of that fight get messed up if you do this, the only thing seemingly unaffected is the enrage timer. If that boss didn't have an enrage or if the bug affected the enrage timer too, he could take as long as needed to kill it no matter how low his dps. Just as well though, because it does prevent him going past that point in that dungeon, but the other dungeons don't have that problem. You could easily solo them if you are patient enough using this bug/exploit.

Its just not worth the time it takes to do it, honestly.

Solnai

Hm todays fixs hardly seem like a nerf infact they seem to have fixed us a great deal. The change to Death Stroke was the only "nerf" and really it was just fixing it to what it was suppose to be. Overall, I welcome the fixes for us in todays patch.


Nightblade
Fixed an issue that was causing Nightblade abilities to become unresponsive in high-intensity combat situations. This issue is caused by a number of factors, and we will continue to monitor it after this patch.

Catalyst: Fixed an issue with the Catalyst passive ability. It will now properly increase the effect of speed potions.

Dark Shades (Summon Shade morph): This ability now deals more damage as the ability ranks up.

Death Stroke: This ability no longer receives the critical damage bonus when used as a sneak attack. It will still cause a stun and a guaranteed critical hit.

Focused Attacks: Fixed an issue where ranks II – IV of Focused Attacks were not restoring stamina.

Sap Essence (Drain Power morph): Fixed an issue where this ability wasn’t granting the initial Weapon Damage bonus you should receive when no target is hit.

Yes they fixed one tree Siphon and buffed Dark Shades (an ability I rarely see anyone use). In regards to Death Stroke being a fix and not a nerf, I guess it is a difference in opinion. Personally I felt it was working as intended, seeing Death Stroke was part of the Assassination tree line, was an Ultimate ability (not spammable, requires you to build points to use it), was a single target ability and required you to sneak up to your target to receive the full damage output. Now Death Stroke will do less damage than Concealed Weapons which is just a normal skill available in your base skill tree. So if making an "Ultimate" ability less powerful than a normal ability is a fix, I stand corrected.

Compilation of Broken NB Abilities and Passives

tamrielfoundry.com/topic/compilation-of-bugged-nightblade-abilities/

PBpsy

You mean the reduction of ultimate generation of Drain Power and the nerf to S&B that makes the NB tanks quite a bit weaker? Or do you mean the nerf to destro staff that will make siphoning attacks destro staff build a pain?

This patch is a NB nerffest.

dragnier

PBpsy wrote: »

You mean the reduction of ultimate generation of Drain Power and the nerf to S&B that makes the NB tanks quite a bit weaker? Or do you mean the nerf to destro staff that will make siphoning attacks destro staff build a pain?

Why would you use siphoning attacks with a destro AoE build? The damage reduction vs. the mana return isn't worth it even if you used Power Extraction with it.

Destro staff isn't any good for single target so I am guessing you meant AoE anyway. My AoE build consists of Power Extraction, Refreshing or Twisting Path (depending on if you need the heal), Elemental Ring, some form of mitigation like Blur/Mirage/Double Take or Shadow Cloak, and Inner Light. My alternate bar is single target stuff and a Resto Staff to have mana regen that doesn't gimp my dmg.

Also, why would you be using drain power as a tank? Tanks aren't meant to do dps though it is a bonus if they can and survive. Most tanking is single target, even in large pulls the tank is responsible for controlling the worst mobs not everything. Again, if they can control multiple mobs its a bonus but not required.

Tanking would rely more on Siphoning Attacks to keep up Magicka/Stamina for taunts and mitigation. Seems to me you have those skills backwards.

Zafu

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. I think Nightblades got unfairly nerfed and they honestly deserved a buff, more so now than ever. But look at the title of the thread itself. OP claimed DK's got a buff. They didn't. They got nerfed in the gut.

Huge nerf to DK (laff). Now they can just annihilate 3 players at once instead of 12 at once. It's fine. My V5 NB is on the shelf. I'm leveling up a DK & Scorcerer as the game requires for any that enjoy PVP. Will get old though with just two classes viable in pvp.

ckf12b14_ESO

Zafu wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. I think Nightblades got unfairly nerfed and they honestly deserved a buff, more so now than ever. But look at the title of the thread itself. OP claimed DK's got a buff. They didn't. They got nerfed in the gut.

Huge nerf to DK (laff). Now they can just annihilate 3 players at once instead of 12 at once. It's fine. My V5 NB is on the shelf. I'm leveling up a DK & Scorcerer as the game requires for any that enjoy PVP. Will get old though with just two classes viable in pvp.

Can any of you people read?

I would call being able to take down a zergfest and now only being able to wreck 3-4 players a big nerf, yeah. DK's are still top tier and are in line for many more balances and nerfs, and NB's are still bottom tier and wholly deserving of many fixes and buffs (and not these uncalled for nerfs).

The_Drexill

Sounds like a broken skill is being brought in line. Saying that NB is "broken" to justify not fixing one of the items that makes them "broken" because it's the helpful kind of broken... I just don't know.

frwinters_ESO

Im a nigthblade only class i ever played and I am happy with the notes.

McWop wrote: »

While I love my Nightblade, the fact that our broken class got a nerf as a priority in craglorn over fixing the 10+ broken skills and passives says a lot. Nightblade crit builds were one of the few ways a NB could have fun in PvP and PvE, and now the best part of that build is gone too.

SO while DKs and sorcs have there run of the game right now, the most broken class gets basically ignored.

If anyone knows me, I've been a huge advocate for this game. I've defended it at almost every turn. But its very demoralizing when i see how you (ZoS) prioritize your content and updates. I'm betting we see the invisibility exploit in PvE fixed before we see passives fixed (wasted skill points FYI)

I wont say much more, I'm not one to tell anyone how to do their jobs. I just hope you guys get a balancing patch out ASAP, currently the state of balance is...for lack of a better word...broken. I refuse to make the FOTM class, i love PvP but I will not roll a DK just to do well in it. I'm not unskilled, but i have a really hard time justifying my time in PvP when i cant take out a DK or Sorc with the same cookie cutter builds as the rest of them, and they win simply because of that build.

I'm tired, I'm tired of defending a game who wont defend themselves. The devs are way too quiet about **everything**. We (the gamers) are the reason you'll stay in business, I'd highly recommend interacting with us.

Really? One you have what two stars next to yoru name which shows you dont post often or get a lot of agrees/blah blah blah so i dont know how much of a supporter you are.

Two your missing the biggest problem the nightblades have had an issue with and that's the un-responsiveness of abilities.

"Fixed an issue that was causing Nightblade abilities to become unresponsive in high-intensity combat situations. This issue is caused by a number of factors, and we will continue to monitor it after this patch."

They have addressed that here. Some of the biggest complaints about the NB is our abilities locking up and not going off as planned. How many times you hit Shadowy Disguise and it doesn't happen? The issue was unresponsiveness in intense combat situations. I can't count how many times i do shadowy disguise try to come out with Surprise attack and it lags heavily and i dont get my stun off properly. If you don't stun and move a melee NB is dead in my opinion.

As for death stroke, they changed the mechanic. Now it stuns AND guaranteed crit? That's much better in my book. With no extra crit damage there are times it wont crit at all, now it will crit every time and stun. I am a Soul Tether man and now with this change I may even switch to try it out. the rest of there NB fixes are all boosts. Cant call it a nerf when the rest of our notes are all boosts.

Now DK getting boosts? Yeah they did cause from what most people tell me, most DK's don't use half of there own abilities anyway. There ultimate's, Talons, and Sword and Board or Destro staff abilities. That's it. There abilities were just as broken just not used frequently. I dont play DK's just what guildies tell me and reading on forums.

Look at the Templar changes. they have the most changes, and I have heard the least amount of complaints about this one class. I feel more bad for templar players then NB or DK players at the moment.

monkeymystic

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

I have NOT made this video, it's from the user "medakonable" on Youtube.

But it shows a Nightblade SOLO Veteran spindleclutch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNESCiD5Wt0

Stop lying... he isn't able to get past the 2nd boss not enough dps.. hench why the recording stop prior to that

Maybe see the rest of the parts of his videos before you call people liars?

xentek_ESO

Sorry, but the ability to crit someone for 2k health regardless of where it comes from is broken. It's not like sneaking up behind someone is difficult to do or takes skill to accomplish.

We'll see how things play out. Perhaps many NB passives got fixed as a result of larger issues that have been resolved like the vampire and other passives disappearing on death.

It's a little early to say that they've done nothing for us. Frankly, the bash nerfs alone should improve our effectiveness since fewer people might be running s/sh spam bash bats builds.

Zafu

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

Zafu wrote: »

ckf12b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. I think Nightblades got unfairly nerfed and they honestly deserved a buff, more so now than ever. But look at the title of the thread itself. OP claimed DK's got a buff. They didn't. They got nerfed in the gut.

Huge nerf to DK (laff). Now they can just annihilate 3 players at once instead of 12 at once. It's fine. My V5 NB is on the shelf. I'm leveling up a DK & Scorcerer as the game requires for any that enjoy PVP. Will get old though with just two classes viable in pvp.

Can any of you people read?

I would call being able to take down a zergfest and now only being able to wreck 3-4 players a big nerf, yeah. DK's are still top tier and are in line for many more balances and nerfs, and NB's are still bottom tier and wholly deserving of many fixes and buffs (and not these uncalled for nerfs).

No Class with the survivability of a DK should be able to wreck 3-4 players. Ability to take down a zergfest was grossly negligent of the developers and should of been fixed in beta. What's the point of discussing this any way? If the developers of this game can't understand their own game I sure don't expect you to.