On subclassing being free for base game

loosej · May 15

When subclassing was announced, combined with the double skill point cost, I immediately had a suspicion that the real reason for the double cost is sales. But to not throw out wild accusations, I just did some math.

(note: combination of Urich's Skill Point Finder screenshot, some quick napkin math, and a bit of rounding; numbers will likely be off by a couple but should be close enough to explain the idea, but please correct me if you see big mistakes)

A player who only has access to the base game, and gets subclassing "for free", currently has access to about 330 skill points.

If we assume this is a more casual player who doesn't pvp, that number drops to about 260 (no 50 points grand overlord v2, no IC/Cyro skyshards).

To unlock every skill, that player currently needs:

Class skills: 3 times 20 points = 60
Weapon skills: 6 times 22 = 132
Armor skills: 3 times 13 = 39
Racial skills: 9
Soul magic: 10
Fighters/Mages/Undaunted: 52
Crafting (no JC): 139

That gives a total of 441 skill points needed. About 300 if we ignore crafting, but in reality you want at least some of those passives. I forgot to include a curse (apologies), and I didn't include assault/support because we're assuming no pvp. Obviously people do the intro quest for the mount speed passive but I'll call that a rounding error.

This isn't a huge deal with a combination of armory, respec shrine, and only unlocking skills that are being used. But once subclassing is released, they'll need an additional 40 points per subclassed skill line, so in practice 80 total. Even if they don't keep points assigned in the skill lines they drop, that's still 40 additional points needed. A lot of those players won't have 40 spare points available.

And the solution for those people is pretty simple: chapters, content passes and dlc. Something to keep in mind if you're excited about this being a "free" addition to the base game.

Rungar · May 15

literally everything zos does is about sales. lol. I have exactly zero expectations that a company like zos would just do things from a goodwill, appreciation of players, or go the extra mile when they don't need to perspective. Its why they are mediocre and their next game will be as well. No need for suspicion. Subclassing is popular in other games like Balders Gate 3 and this is basically free content generation for zos for their maintenance mode game.

Djennku · May 15

I want to point out that if you unlock every skill, morph and passive available to your character you will make your toon overloaded with things the game needs to calculate (considering any other things like gear, CP, etc.) and you will end up having things stop loading properly.

I had that issue for awhile before I finally figured it out. So really, you never need to put points into everything, BUT the game does provide you with plenty of skill points to customize your builds, especially with the armory.

I play a character that has all but 3-4 skill points collected, and with the builds I am using on her, I have over 200 extra in reserve.

Renato90085 · May 15

but why you need unlock all skill same time?
I mean if you are Dps,when you need use heal staff or sword/Shield？

VoidCommander · May 15

Hot take here but…..

Sounds like free to play leachers will either need to become intimately familiar with PvP or give up crafting, which makes the most sense due to the lack of the craft bag.

I have very little sympathy for players who assume they deserve any accommodation while not paying for the game they are playing. Go play Oblivion or Skyrim if you want a static game that doesn’t get new updates and features.

But don’t come into the forums complaining that life is inconvenient for the player-base who contribute a minute fraction of the revenue needed to keep this game running (the base game cost in OP’s example). You don’t pay the industry standard subscription -> you don’t get quality of life options like easy skillpoint access, armor sets, story lines, craft bags, trials, dungeons, etc.

freespirit · May 15

On one of my secondary accounts I have very few skill points available to me as I am still very early on in a total game play through HOWEVER she is perfectly capable of solo-ing most base game dungeons(that can be solo-ed) and pretty much all WB's

I do have plus on that account but have yet to do pretty much any non base game content.

My point is that many players that choose not to sub are already experts at juggling skill points, inventory etc I think it's quite likely they will still be able to play with and enjoy subclassing.

Also I think as someone mentioned above why on earth would you waste skill points in weapons you are never going to use on that character??

ZOS_Kevin · May 15

So we'll say this about the general premise here. We promised a year of transition and we are making moves to make the game more accessible to everyone, less barriers, which is feedback we have gotten in the past. We have more changes coming over the next year and looking forward to sharing those when ready. But Subclassing and the free nature of it are there to allow player flexibility and power fantasy, like other Elder Scrolls games. That was something determined very early on in the process. It is set us up for everyone to have more choice when playing. Not having subclassing be a base game feature would not fit our philosophy there.

We also have a deep dive on subclassing coming in the coming weeks that should go into more of the philosophy around subclassing.

Erickson9610 · May 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we'll say this about the general premise here. We promised a year of transition and we are making moves to make the game more accessible to everyone, less barriers, which is feedback we have gotten in the past. We have more changes coming over the next year and looking forward to sharing those when ready. But Subclassing and the free nature of it are there to allow player flexibility and power fantasy, like other Elder Scrolls games. That was something determined very early on in the process. It is set us up for everyone to have more choice when playing. Not having subclassing be a base game feature would not fit our philosophy there.

We also have a deep dive on subclassing coming in the coming weeks that should go into more of the philosophy around subclassing.

I worry that players will see that deep dive on Subclassing and still be unsatisfied with the answers, like how players felt about the announcement and deep dive of the Vengeance tests.

Some players, not all, just don't want things like Vengeance or Subclassing to happen, and they likely won't be happy with any justification given for them.

TempestM · May 16

loosej wrote: »

That gives a total of 441 skill points needed

How are they "needed"? Why would you need all weapon skills and all passives at the same time? Every single crafting skills? You lvl up upgrading to gold on every single alt? Well.. you don't need too

mrreow · May 16

Honestly eso is okay but I don’t know how anyone could play it for more than two weeks at a time.
There are vastly better elder scrolls games out there and there are vastly better mmos.

Subclassing only solves “not enough money in q1 2025” problem but otherwise is a strange and suprising addition in an mmo the way it is done that probably no player wanted or even suggested. It just came up in some product management brainstorm session.

I wouldn’t invest all my time and energy in eso if there exist such games as mp morrowind with Tamriel rebuilt. It’s like a third option to kill time at best, lore wasn’t even the same nor recovered since beth medievalled cyrodill. Tes 3 is peak and defining experience of everything elder scrolls.

Doesn’t have 100 dollars houses or 50 dollars mounts either

Can you seriously say that they have done justice to necrom and this awkward slice of “telvanni penisula”? All these zones are incredibly down watered. You don’t even feel they are real in any way. Add in zoomer marvel comedy to everything and the end result is just tes lore theme park with a souvenir shop on every corner efficiently making it impossible to ignore the cartoon figures in the background and fundamentally comedic and unserious existence of any and all eso npc ever

The only really brilliant thing in this game that wasn’t copied from the IP is PVP and that is going to be basically gone if PTS goes live.

Because even the pve raid mechanics don’t hold a candle to something like ffxiv. It’s all mostly a gargantuan fan service and not really a solid game on its own.

If it was its own IP it wouldn’t survive two months. We are all here because it is elder scrolls not because it is a good game that happens to be set in elder scrolls universe

ADarklore · May 16

You don't NEED every skill unlocked... respecing is easy and they also have armories (you get two free). So you could have a role build and a crafting build to free up skill points. IMO, it seems like OP is trying to generate more angst towards subclassing when there really isn't one over skill points. The ONLY issue would be for a brand new player coming in and having to spend more of their time farming skyshards than 'playing the game'. That's what I found frustrating when I first started, was having to spend my immediate time grinding for stuff, instead of actually playing the game. No, many years later, I still don't have all the skyshards but I tend to have about 60 skill points left over.

WalkingBomb · May 16

Bit of a stretch to complain about needing 8-16 extra skill points compared to a regular setup when there are 100s in the game. Out of all the things to provide criticism for, this ain't it, chief.

BattleAxe · May 16

loosej wrote: »

When subclassing additional 40 points per subclassed skill line, so in practice 80 total. Even if they don't keep points assigned in the skill lines they drop, that's still 40 additional points needed. A lot of those players won't have 40 spare points available.

And the solution for those people is pretty simple: chapters, content passes and dlc. Something to keep in mind if you're excited about this being a "free" addition to the base game.

Factor in and adjust as u only will feasibly have 2 maybe 3 weapon skill lines freeing up 66 skill points then misc free up as u wont get every skill in each skill line

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we'll say this about the general premise here. We promised a year of transition and we are making moves to make the game more accessible to everyone, less barriers, which is feedback we have gotten in the past. We have more changes coming over the next year and looking forward to sharing those when ready. But Subclassing and the free nature of it are there to allow player flexibility and power fantasy, like other Elder Scrolls games. That was something determined very early on in the process. It is set us up for everyone to have more choice when playing. Not having subclassing be a base game feature would not fit our philosophy there.

We also have a deep dive on subclassing coming in the coming weeks that should go into more of the philosophy around subclassing.

I worry that players will see that deep dive on Subclassing and still be unsatisfied with the answers, like how players felt about the announcement and deep dive of the Vengeance tests.

Some players, not all, just don't want things like Vengeance or Subclassing to happen, and they likely won't be happy with any justification given for them.

Agreed it’s easier to criticize the devs than to accept changes that are balanced over long term versus short term. Now do I agree with every change of course not but being able to look past the short term these changes may very well benefit eso for the next 10 yrs. I’m sure players will see the devs comment on this post and still not be happy with the communication from the devs.

Ragnarok0130 · May 16

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So we'll say this about the general premise here. We promised a year of transition and we are making moves to make the game more accessible to everyone, less barriers, which is feedback we have gotten in the past. We have more changes coming over the next year and looking forward to sharing those when ready. But Subclassing and the free nature of it are there to allow player flexibility and power fantasy, like other Elder Scrolls games. That was something determined very early on in the process. It is set us up for everyone to have more choice when playing. Not having subclassing be a base game feature would not fit our philosophy there.

We also have a deep dive on subclassing coming in the coming weeks that should go into more of the philosophy around subclassing.

@ZOS_Kevin such a drastic all encompassing change to the game's core combat system would require an entire year of PTS testing, not just a condensed normal PTS spread over a few weeks. I fear not only will subclassing destroy pure classes by nerfing skill lines to compensate for subclassing's unintended synergies but force resistant players to use subclassing against their will to remain competitive after pure classes are heavily nerfed. I fear that subclassing will also destroy any semblance of combat balance driving players away due to frustration with the added skill point cost and unnecessary skill expertise grind creating much more player churn. I recall player churn is a metric that publishers don't like to see increase from previous quarterly earnings calls with other studios.

The deep dive needs to be an actual deep dive that answers the questions and more importantly fears expressed by players here on the forums. Historically when we've been promised a "deep dive" by ZoS it was little more than a marketing pitch that answered little to none of the questions that kept the community up at night.

May I also remind the studio that they promised us a deep dive in response to U35's changes and then they cancelled it when it became apparent we wanted explanations of why it was allowed to happen and a way forward correct the situation? There's not a lot of trust left with the player base to give the devs the benefit of the doubt to such a drastic and unrequested change to the game after 11 years of them being unable to balance a much less complicated class based version of the game.

gc0018 · May 16

With subclassing lots of non-class skill are now trash, like two-handed execution. you will always get better skill for class-based skilline. It actually reduces the need of many contexts. Scribing plus subclassing covers almost everything except some passive.

tsaescishoeshiner · May 17

It's good to be concerned for basegame players, but the math is incorrect here in a pretty major way. It takes less than half as many skillpoints as in the original post to use all skills in a subclass. And why do players need all skills, passives, and morphs leveled that they're not using?

Luckily, it's not up to 40 skill points per fully-skilled subclass skill line (almost no players will need all skills and passives from their subclass), it's up to 20 skill points. Because you can take up to 20 back from the skill line you're removing, and the new skill line costs up to 40 (which you won't need), so 40 - 20 = 20 at max.

And that makes 40 the maximum extra skill points a player will need if they take two subclasses and replace all 12 abilities with new ones, which almost no one will. It's more safe to assume 8 per subclass for passives + 2 per skill they use. Which is super doable and barely an inconvenience if people just stop by the respec shrine to clean up their unused skills and morphs.

Basegame access, without PvP, has had many extra skillpoints for years, and subclassing definitely cuts into that a bit. But it's not over a point where it's a real obstacle. I play fully-skilled characters in all content without having anywhere near the 260 skillpoints from the basegame, doing only a fraction of the dungeons, skyshards, quests, etc.

Again, a good concern, but looking at the math more, this is reminding me of that tweet about the candle budget.

Treeshka · May 17

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Rungar · May 17

Treeshka wrote: »

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Because its the cost of doing business. Zos benefits if players play more and this will cause that. Theyll have something convenience wise to sell. You could also make the case that its outside your area of expertise so you need to work harder at it but id say they just want you to grind a bit more. Theres a glut of skillpoints to be found in the game. Its a minor cost.

SwimsWithMemes · May 17

It's to sell time & convenience in Skyshards packs.

You get like, 64(?) skill points from leveling. If you do LL

Rungar wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Because its the cost of doing business. Zos benefits if players play more and this will cause that. Theyll have something convenience wise to sell. You could also make the case that its outside your area of expertise so you need to work harder at it but id say they just want you to grind a bit more. Theres a glut of skillpoints to be found in the game. Its a minor cost.

It's a garbage cost. It's literally only a forced grind for new players or players with alts they want to try out.

It's a sign that there has been no real thought about what subclassing should be - is it a "freeform, open up the game" type system? Then why does it cost more? That's the opposite of accessibility is trying things to a time grind. Is it a drawback mechanic? If so, its again only a drawback at the outset, and not a balancing of the flexibility you get.

Is it a placeholder for a better and more interesting system? We have heard nothing.

Subclassing should either be just identical to normal skill lines in terms of experience and time, or it should be a bespoke system that rewards you for trying new combinations.

It just feels lazy and a way to force engagement.

Rungar · May 17

SwimsWithMemes wrote: »

It's to sell time & convenience in Skyshards packs.

You get like, 64(?) skill points from leveling. If you do LL

Rungar wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Because its the cost of doing business. Zos benefits if players play more and this will cause that. Theyll have something convenience wise to sell. You could also make the case that its outside your area of expertise so you need to work harder at it but id say they just want you to grind a bit more. Theres a glut of skillpoints to be found in the game. Its a minor cost.

It's a garbage cost. It's literally only a forced grind for new players or players with alts they want to try out.

It's a sign that there has been no real thought about what subclassing should be - is it a "freeform, open up the game" type system? Then why does it cost more? That's the opposite of accessibility is trying things to a time grind. Is it a drawback mechanic? If so, its again only a drawback at the outset, and not a balancing of the flexibility you get.

Is it a placeholder for a better and more interesting system? We have heard nothing.

Subclassing should either be just identical to normal skill lines in terms of experience and time, or it should be a bespoke system that rewards you for trying new combinations.

It just feels lazy and a way to force engagement.

isnt it lazy though to complain about this rather than just go do some content and get the points. They arent charging you $50 for it. You have to do SOMETHING. You have to give them some room to make a convenience profit from it. I find double skillpoints to be completely fair.

sarahthes · May 17

Subclassing is free because it's a material change to the game engine and I think it's probably far simpler to give it to everyone than to restrict it.

That it also aligns with their core philosophies above per Kevin would be why they wouldn't put in that work anyway.

LootAllTheStuff · May 18

ADarklore wrote: »

You don't NEED every skill unlocked... respecing is easy and they also have armories (you get two free). So you could have a role build and a crafting build to free up skill points. IMO, it seems like OP is trying to generate more angst towards subclassing when there really isn't one over skill points. The ONLY issue would be for a brand new player coming in and having to spend more of their time farming skyshards than 'playing the game'. That's what I found frustrating when I first started, was having to spend my immediate time grinding for stuff, instead of actually playing the game. No, many years later, I still don't have all the skyshards but I tend to have about 60 skill points left over.

It seems to me that a new player coming into the game using a free-to-play base game option such as GamePass (the premise of the OP) might very well be in it for PvE at least initially. If so, they're going to want to do all the story content - so, main story and all guild and alliance story lines. Such a player would be unlikely to find that a grind, and will get plenty of skill points along the way. Ask me how I know

. Then at some point they'll want some of the DLC stories, so they'll either bite the bullet and take out ESO+ or they'll buy crowns and get the chapters as they go.

Also, to pick up on one of the other posts above: Could we please stop with the "free-to-play-leaches" stuff? I don't know about other platforms, but if someone is playing base game through GamePass (for either XBox or PC), some of that subscription money is already going back into the game. Calling everyone who does not subscribe a "leach" is derogatory and unjustified. I have no idea how many play the game *consistently* on a completely free basis, but I have a hard time believing it's actually that many - much more likely to be a constant stream of people trying it for free and not sticking for more than a month.

SwimsWithMemes · May 18

Rungar wrote: »

SwimsWithMemes wrote: »

It's to sell time & convenience in Skyshards packs.

You get like, 64(?) skill points from leveling. If you do LL

Rungar wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Because its the cost of doing business. Zos benefits if players play more and this will cause that. Theyll have something convenience wise to sell. You could also make the case that its outside your area of expertise so you need to work harder at it but id say they just want you to grind a bit more. Theres a glut of skillpoints to be found in the game. Its a minor cost.

It's a garbage cost. It's literally only a forced grind for new players or players with alts they want to try out.

It's a sign that there has been no real thought about what subclassing should be - is it a "freeform, open up the game" type system? Then why does it cost more? That's the opposite of accessibility is trying things to a time grind. Is it a drawback mechanic? If so, its again only a drawback at the outset, and not a balancing of the flexibility you get.

Is it a placeholder for a better and more interesting system? We have heard nothing.

Subclassing should either be just identical to normal skill lines in terms of experience and time, or it should be a bespoke system that rewards you for trying new combinations.

It just feels lazy and a way to force engagement.

isnt it lazy though to complain about this rather than just go do some content and get the points. They arent charging you $50 for it. You have to do SOMETHING. You have to give them some room to make a convenience profit from it. I find double skillpoints to be completely fair.

I've also already done the content, and very few things outside of dungeons in this game are appealing or worth repeating. I've done the skyshard grind many times in different places on different characters. You actually mean "isn't it lazy to do the thing you've already done before a half dozen times, another half dozen times?" Which the answer is "No. If the game thinks it's entitled to players time it needs to make it interesting and enjoyable". And for me, grinding another 60-120 Skyshards is not good game design.

They get money from ESO+ already, that's how I have supported the game historically. I have also paid for the game and a previous chapter collection. I already pay a convenience fee for the privilege of engaging with the crafting system.

Double skill points is a "cost" in lieu of interesting or enjoyable gameplay. It's not new content.

Jaimeh · May 18

Rungar wrote: »

literally everything zos does is about sales. lol. I have exactly zero expectations that a company like zos would just do things from a goodwill, appreciation of players, or go the extra mile when they don't need to perspective.

This ^ The moment seals of endeavours came out, everything in crates increased a tier, so costumes etc., went from 100 gems to 400 gems in apex tier, and so on. The house never loses.

Rungar · May 19

SwimsWithMemes wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

SwimsWithMemes wrote: »

It's to sell time & convenience in Skyshards packs.

You get like, 64(?) skill points from leveling. If you do LL

Rungar wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

I think if they make Scribing and Subclassing base game for the sake of accessibility.

Why there is two skill point cost? Lets say i am a Sorcerer that knows all the magical things and such. But why reading a book about Necromancy costs twice as much?

Because its the cost of doing business. Zos benefits if players play more and this will cause that. Theyll have something convenience wise to sell. You could also make the case that its outside your area of expertise so you need to work harder at it but id say they just want you to grind a bit more. Theres a glut of skillpoints to be found in the game. Its a minor cost.

It's a garbage cost. It's literally only a forced grind for new players or players with alts they want to try out.

It's a sign that there has been no real thought about what subclassing should be - is it a "freeform, open up the game" type system? Then why does it cost more? That's the opposite of accessibility is trying things to a time grind. Is it a drawback mechanic? If so, its again only a drawback at the outset, and not a balancing of the flexibility you get.

Is it a placeholder for a better and more interesting system? We have heard nothing.

Subclassing should either be just identical to normal skill lines in terms of experience and time, or it should be a bespoke system that rewards you for trying new combinations.

It just feels lazy and a way to force engagement.

isnt it lazy though to complain about this rather than just go do some content and get the points. They arent charging you $50 for it. You have to do SOMETHING. You have to give them some room to make a convenience profit from it. I find double skillpoints to be completely fair.

I've also already done the content, and very few things outside of dungeons in this game are appealing or worth repeating. I've done the skyshard grind many times in different places on different characters. You actually mean "isn't it lazy to do the thing you've already done before a half dozen times, another half dozen times?" Which the answer is "No. If the game thinks it's entitled to players time it needs to make it interesting and enjoyable". And for me, grinding another 60-120 Skyshards is not good game design.

They get money from ESO+ already, that's how I have supported the game historically. I have also paid for the game and a previous chapter collection. I already pay a convenience fee for the privilege of engaging with the crafting system.

Double skill points is a "cost" in lieu of interesting or enjoyable gameplay. It's not new content.

if you had done it all youd have all the points already and wouldnt need to do more.

xAlucardx92 · May 19

loosej wrote: »

When subclassing was announced, combined with the double skill point cost, I immediately had a suspicion that the real reason for the double cost is sales. But to not throw out wild accusations, I just did some math.

(note: combination of Urich's Skill Point Finder screenshot, some quick napkin math, and a bit of rounding; numbers will likely be off by a couple but should be close enough to explain the idea, but please correct me if you see big mistakes)

A player who only has access to the base game, and gets subclassing "for free", currently has access to about 330 skill points.

If we assume this is a more casual player who doesn't pvp, that number drops to about 260 (no 50 points grand overlord v2, no IC/Cyro skyshards).

To unlock every skill, that player currently needs:
Class skills: 3 times 20 points = 60

Weapon skills: 6 times 22 = 132

Armor skills: 3 times 13 = 39

Racial skills: 9

Soul magic: 10

Fighters/Mages/Undaunted: 52

Crafting (no JC): 139

That gives a total of 441 skill points needed. About 300 if we ignore crafting, but in reality you want at least some of those passives. I forgot to include a curse (apologies), and I didn't include assault/support because we're assuming no pvp. Obviously people do the intro quest for the mount speed passive but I'll call that a rounding error.

This isn't a huge deal with a combination of armory, respec shrine, and only unlocking skills that are being used. But once subclassing is released, they'll need an additional 40 points per subclassed skill line, so in practice 80 total. Even if they don't keep points assigned in the skill lines they drop, that's still 40 additional points needed. A lot of those players won't have 40 spare points available.

And the solution for those people is pretty simple: chapters, content passes and dlc. Something to keep in mind if you're excited about this being a "free" addition to the base game.

Play the game and you have enough Skillpoints. When this is your main concern, I don't know ….,

sarahthes · May 19

xAlucardx92 wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

When subclassing was announced, combined with the double skill point cost, I immediately had a suspicion that the real reason for the double cost is sales. But to not throw out wild accusations, I just did some math.

(note: combination of Urich's Skill Point Finder screenshot, some quick napkin math, and a bit of rounding; numbers will likely be off by a couple but should be close enough to explain the idea, but please correct me if you see big mistakes)

A player who only has access to the base game, and gets subclassing "for free", currently has access to about 330 skill points.

If we assume this is a more casual player who doesn't pvp, that number drops to about 260 (no 50 points grand overlord v2, no IC/Cyro skyshards).

To unlock every skill, that player currently needs:
Class skills: 3 times 20 points = 60

Weapon skills: 6 times 22 = 132

Armor skills: 3 times 13 = 39

Racial skills: 9

Soul magic: 10

Fighters/Mages/Undaunted: 52

Crafting (no JC): 139

That gives a total of 441 skill points needed. About 300 if we ignore crafting, but in reality you want at least some of those passives. I forgot to include a curse (apologies), and I didn't include assault/support because we're assuming no pvp. Obviously people do the intro quest for the mount speed passive but I'll call that a rounding error.

This isn't a huge deal with a combination of armory, respec shrine, and only unlocking skills that are being used. But once subclassing is released, they'll need an additional 40 points per subclassed skill line, so in practice 80 total. Even if they don't keep points assigned in the skill lines they drop, that's still 40 additional points needed. A lot of those players won't have 40 spare points available.

And the solution for those people is pretty simple: chapters, content passes and dlc. Something to keep in mind if you're excited about this being a "free" addition to the base game.

Play the game and you have enough Skillpoints. When this is your main concern, I don't know ….,

Most of the people who play at the level where subclassing will be *required* rather than only for flavour, if they quest at all, do so on only one character.