[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Idinuse · June 2016

I suppose you are the one that knows what other people think?

yumyum wrote: »

and then you all think

yumyum · June 2016

I don't know what other people think, but i can go on what i have read in the 27 pages and i know that people read a few things on the net, and that a small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are.

Turelus · June 2016

yumyum wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the first time we have really seen ZOS talk about the issues after fact and people want to keep the pressure on that it continues to happen. Many in the community (and I can't/won't speak for everyone) are tried of the old ways and want to make sure ZOS don't band-aid it and move on again.

Yes it is and that is why you all need to give them time to work on it. If you wanted to help ZOS then report the players that you think could be cheating, as i said no one here knows what ZOS are working on or what ZOS are now doing.

We tried that, that's why we are where we are now. A jaded and cynical community who don't believe ZOS will ever do anything to solve the issues.
Right now they need to be communicating if they want to hold onto their more hardcore/veteran members who have been through this over and over. They're doing a good job, Jessica's updates here have been fantastic, but for many that's just the start of what they want to see.

sadownik · June 2016

Grao wrote: »

Calippe_Hac wrote: »

I closed my plus account and stopped playing @ 2 months ago (before the date of this thread) when I first heard about the hacks, etc. and the weak ESO response. After reading a bit of this thread I am now convinced I acted correctly.

ESO relies too much on the good will of the player base created from their very successful Elder Scrolls single player series and either cannot run a multiplayer game or chooses to take advantage of this good will.

I am glad I no longer reinforce ESO's destructive behavior.

Though I believe Zenimax has made several mistakes that justify no longer subscribing as a ESO plus, I do think people should be a little more forgiven in this particular instance. One thing one has to understand is that Bethesda and Zenimax had no MMO experience when they created this game. They are companies that previously worked mostly with single player platforms and if the game was hacked then, it simply didn't mattered, it didn't affect other players.

So they chose to make ESO have most of its calculations Client side, yes, it was a mistake, but one born out of inexperience and naivety, not necessarily corporation greed. They simply didn't expect hackers to dod what they are doing, it is really quite silly if you think about it. They are cheating in a rather insignificant game, ESO isn't even close to being played professionally.

The truth is, hackers aren't doing this because they care about getting an advantage in the game, they just want to prove to everyone that they can break whatever incription Zenimax managed to layer over their game, that is what is fun for them... Once that is done they can sell the final product or simply give it away to observe the chaos...

This is absolutly wrong and very murica'nish way to look at companies. They are not persons. Look who ZOS hired. How many of the crew that was building the game had MMO ecxperience.

Makkir · June 2016

hamgatan wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I think, that along with banning the account. They should also ban the ip adresss, email adress and credit card used on that account. At least make it difficult for them to start another account.

no that's going a bit far.. well on the IP front anyway.

with the IPV4 space running out worldwide, ISP's are rapidly switching to dynamic IP (DHCP) for subscriber links. In most cases it costs extra to have a Static reservation now. By banning the IP you may inadvertently block another customer who is allocated that IP from the DHCP pool who has done nothing wrong..

Bro i think the chances of someone else with the same ID also playing Elder scrolls online.....well i think you got a better chance of finding a 3 legged ballerina. besides i think theres only about 9 of us left who still play on PC . :-)

yumyum · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

hamgatan wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

I think, that along with banning the account. They should also ban the ip adresss, email adress and credit card used on that account. At least make it difficult for them to start another account.

no that's going a bit far.. well on the IP front anyway.

with the IPV4 space running out worldwide, ISP's are rapidly switching to dynamic IP (DHCP) for subscriber links. In most cases it costs extra to have a Static reservation now. By banning the IP you may inadvertently block another customer who is allocated that IP from the DHCP pool who has done nothing wrong..

Bro i think the chances of someone else with the same ID also playing Elder scrolls online.....well i think you got a better chance of finding a 3 legged ballerina. besides i think theres only about 9 of us left who still play on P . :-)

Lets hope that ZoS has no one like you working for them.

Pomaikai · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Is this going to be like vet levels 2.0 where ZOS looks to the side and whistles pretending nothing is wrong for a year and a half until their playerbase becomes anemic and they're forced to act?

We're not finished with our efforts to keep cheaters out of ESO by any means - if anything, the round of bannings you all saw was just the beginning of a multi-faceted effort. Some of it you'll see, some of it you won't (beyond cheaters getting banned.) There's a good possibility we'll quietly roll out what we're working on so that those still using cheat programs aren't tipped off and we catch them in the act.

This is better. But you still haven't told us what your OFFICIAL policies are on cheating and exploiting. What are the penalties? Where are the lines in the sand?

Naming and shaming. Learn from your competition what works. Your players MUST be too afraid to cheat, or the vast majority who normally wouldn't cheat will feel they have no choice but to join the cheaters if they wish to remain competitive. Because if the perception is that you're weak and ineffectual against cheaters, then there is no compelling reason not to join them.

Makkir · June 2016

yumyum wrote: »

Lets hope that ZoS has no one like you working for them.

Whys that? I would ban these people no questions asked and take the loss. I would then invest in some better hardware to improve performance, I would introduce a Recruit a Friend program, and I would also look at instituting a reward policy for turning in evidence that results in banning exploiters. And then I would hire the nerd who is creating these hacks to be on my dev team.

yumyum · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Bro i think the chances of someone else with the same ID also playing Elder scrolls online.....well i think you got a better chance of finding a 3 legged ballerina. besides i think theres only about 9 of us left who still play on P . :-)

Lets hope that ZoS has no one like you working for them.

Whys that? I would ban these people no questions asked and take the loss. I would then invest in some better hardware to improve performance, I would introduce a Recruit a Friend program, and I would also look at instituting a reward policy for turning in evidence that results in banning exploiters. And then I would hire the nerd who is creating these hacks to be on my dev team.

Hmm so you would ban by Ip and damn and hard luck to dynamic IP users, you would ban players without 100% proof a player is cheating, not to hard to fake a video and make it look like that player was using a speed cheat. I stand by my 1st comment. what you know about Anti cheat would fit on the back of a postage stamp

Makkir · June 2016

yumyum wrote: »

Hmm so you would ban by Ip and damn and hard luck to dynamic IP users, you would ban players without 100% proof a player is cheating, not to hard to fake a video and make it look like that player was using a speed cheat. I stand by my 1st comment. what you know about Anti cheat would fit on the back of a postage stamp

I am really not offended by someone named yumyum...who are you again? Last girl I brought home was certainly not because of how much I knew about anti-cheat...lolz
If I were in charge, it'd be my rules or the highway. You see, there are 2 types of people out there...ones who work FOR the company, and the ones who think the company works for them. I'm not very partial to that second group. If you are going to come to my party, then you will play by my rules. And that's where I think ZOS, and any company for that matter, should stand.

Tavore1138 · June 2016

yumyum wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the first time we have really seen ZOS talk about the issues after fact and people want to keep the pressure on that it continues to happen. Many in the community (and I can't/won't speak for everyone) are tried of the old ways and want to make sure ZOS don't band-aid it and move on again.

Yes it is and that is why you all need to give them time to work on it. If you wanted to help ZOS then report the players that you think could be cheating, as i said no one here knows what ZOS are working on or what ZOS are now doing.

I *think* you may be missing the point - in the past we have seen cheats cheat and seemingly get away with it and we have seen exploits/cheats go on for a long long time until something has forced them into dealing with it... this latest round of cheating is a case in point.

It is encouraging to see them apparently dealing with this and not letting it be forgotten BUT at the same time by reminding them that we are still interested and not willing to let this go then we, hopefully, maintain that sense of urgency.

It's a little like how when some big story hits the news politicians are all about dealing with whatever it is right up until the media stop reporting it - then any actions fizzle out and the problem never gets solved.

I have no doubt that the likes of @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_BrianWheeler want to fix their game but they don't hold the budgets and sometimes us being grumpy here might actually give them the ammunition they need to keep the accountants giving them the resources they need to deal with this.

I don't expect them to let me know the precise code changes they are making or whatever else they plan to detect cheats BUT I do want them to give us some feedback on the general levels of progress because that in turn gives me the confidence to keep playing (and paying) while the issues are resolved rather than finding something else to do with my time and money.

Grao · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Hmm so you would ban by Ip and damn and hard luck to dynamic IP users, you would ban players without 100% proof a player is cheating, not to hard to fake a video and make it look like that player was using a speed cheat. I stand by my 1st comment. what you know about Anti cheat would fit on the back of a postage stamp

I am really not offended by someone named yumyum...who are you again? Last girl I brought home was certainly not because of how much I knew about anti-cheat...lolz
If I were in charge, it'd be my rules or the highway. You see, there are 2 types of people out there...ones who work FOR the company, and the ones who think the company works for them. I'm not very partial to that second group. If you are going to come to my party, then you will play by my rules. And that's where I think ZOS, and any company for that matter, should stand.

And it is companies having this 'my way or the highway' mentality that precludes them from thinking they have to be transparent and hear to their communities on several important matters. It has lead more than once to great games being ruined...

Makkir · June 2016

Grao wrote: »

And it is companies having this 'my way or the highway' mentality that precludes them from thinking they have to be transparent and hear to their communities on several important matters. It has lead more than once to great games being ruined...

Yeah but that's a separate issue. You can rule with an iron fist and be receptive.

yumyum · June 2016

I was not trying to offend you and reading your post has giving me a smile as i had forgotten that there are people like you

hamgatan · June 2016

Grao wrote: »

And it is companies having this 'my way or the highway' mentality that precludes them from thinking they have to be transparent and hear to their communities on several important matters. It has lead more than once to great games being ruined...

Arthg · June 2016

This is one of the last threads on a serious, still unaddressed issue.
Keep your private life and your political opinions to yourselves.

ZOS's announcement falls short of meeting reasonable expectations.

First, they should acknowledge that their response to cheating has been inappropriate.
They should announce a new policy.
They should publicize what they're doing, in a non-technical, yet firm, manner.

My pleasure at playing the game has been considerably undermined by cheating.
It started with the mats/banker exploit, and ZOS doing virtually nothing.
Now with the new patch, why should I not believe that these exploiters are selling their mats for an arm and a leg?

The absence of certainty that my opponents are not increasing their resource regen, their damage, their dodging chance, their speed, their potion cooldown makes me not want to play anymore - at least I've lost the enthusiasm.

I'm keeping an eye on what ZOS will be doing in the next few weeks.
But should they keep feeding us non-events, non-announcements, non-policies, I'll just unsub and give away my stuff.

XANTITHESISX · June 2016

I can tell you how it is being handle by damage control...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270635/exploiters-at-it-again#latest

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »
We've removed several posts that were discussing moderation. Any questions or concerns regarding moderator action on these forums should be sent to the moderator via private message. Please try to remember that the primary responsibility of forum moderators is to maintain civil and constructive discussion in this community.

We don't allow naming-and-shaming on these forums because it generally involves an in-game situation and/or Terms of Service violation, which the ESO Community Team is unable to assist with. Naming-and-shaming typically elevates to a point where the subject feels legitimately harassed. We believe that naming-and-shaming posts and threads can be abused and are very harmful to the community. We also don't feel that publicly calling out or accusing others by name on our forums is in spirit of the game or our community.

I wrote:

Cheating or being caught cheating is not in the spirit of the game or the community either.. yet it continues... and continues. Who cares if the cheaters feels harassed. Simple.. don't cheat.

As I have said, if there are no real consequences then it will continue.

I agree that <b>ABUSING</b> "Naming & Shaming" is harmful to the community but ask yourself. What is worse on the community in the long run, allowing the few and minority that are ruining the game for the people that love the game and basically enabling the cheaters/exploiters to continue with no real consequences?

It is obvious they couldn't care less about the game... only themselves. The cheaters will leave the game when no one wants them in their guild or wants to group with them. It appears that ZOS cares more about the feelings of the cheaters than the cheated.

Instead let them hang around with a simple 3 day ban while they run off 20 people that cared about the game. People do not want to invest into a game that is being controlled by those that cheat. Why would anyone want to continue to spend money on something that they do not feel secure in the longevity of the game due to exploits/hacks/cheats?

I wish ZOS would reconsider naming these individuals.. there is a difference between naming and abusing. The video was enough proof and nothing negative was said about the cheater other than the <b>TRUTH</b> .

Until then I look forward to ESOCheaters.com

... then once you reply to the thread it doesnt bump the thread

✭✭
I find it funny that this (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270635/exploiters-at-it-again#latest) thread doesn't bump to the top when someone replies that confirms my belief that ZOS is trying to bury these topics for appearance sakes... We wouldn't want the general public that may be checking out information on the game to see that cheaters are running rampant with no real consequences.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Day 9

XANTITHESISX · June 2016

Tavore1138 wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is the first time we have really seen ZOS talk about the issues after fact and people want to keep the pressure on that it continues to happen. Many in the community (and I can't/won't speak for everyone) are tried of the old ways and want to make sure ZOS don't band-aid it and move on again.

Yes it is and that is why you all need to give them time to work on it. If you wanted to help ZOS then report the players that you think could be cheating, as i said no one here knows what ZOS are working on or what ZOS are now doing.

I *think* you may be missing the point - in the past we have seen cheats cheat and seemingly get away with it and we have seen exploits/cheats go on for a long long time until something has forced them into dealing with it... this latest round of cheating is a case in point.

It is encouraging to see them apparently dealing with this and not letting it be forgotten BUT at the same time by reminding them that we are still interested and not willing to let this go then we, hopefully, maintain that sense of urgency.

It's a little like how when some big story hits the news politicians are all about dealing with whatever it is right up until the media stop reporting it - then any actions fizzle out and the problem never gets solved.

I have no doubt that the likes of @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_BrianWheeler want to fix their game but they don't hold the budgets and sometimes us being grumpy here might actually give them the ammunition they need to keep the accountants giving them the resources they need to deal with this.

I don't expect them to let me know the precise code changes they are making or whatever else they plan to detect cheats BUT I do want them to give us some feedback on the general levels of progress because that in turn gives me the confidence to keep playing (and paying) while the issues are resolved rather than finding something else to do with my time and money.

Very well said... no one wants to invest money if all confidence is lost.

kevlarto_ESO · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

I think it is a great idea so the player base would see that cheaters gets banned and suspended. Glad to see there is still ongoing methods going into place to catch more cheaters, I am just disappointed so many players seemed to use it, crying shame really, and the funny thing cheaters think everyone cheats, got news for them no not everyone cheats, I have played mmo's since the 90's never used any kind of cheat or known exploit, I come to play the game and build my skills though legit game play.

ZOS_DaryaK · June 2016

XANTITHESISX wrote: »

... then once you reply to the thread it doesnt bump the thread

✭✭
I find it funny that this (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270635/exploiters-at-it-again#latest) thread doesn't bump to the top when someone replies that confirms my belief that ZOS is trying to bury these topics for appearance sakes... We wouldn't want the general public that may be checking out information on the game to see that cheaters are running rampant with no real consequences.

This was completely unintentional and I have corrected the error that caused that thread to not rise when replied to. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Ghost-Shot · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Is this going to be like vet levels 2.0 where ZOS looks to the side and whistles pretending nothing is wrong for a year and a half until their playerbase becomes anemic and they're forced to act?

We're not finished with our efforts to keep cheaters out of ESO by any means - if anything, the round of bannings you all saw was just the beginning of a multi-faceted effort. Some of it you'll see, some of it you won't (beyond cheaters getting banned.) There's a good possibility we'll quietly roll out what we're working on so that those still using cheat programs aren't tipped off and we catch them in the act.

So what about the guy who has been in the top 5 of TF AD this campaign who is in one of the cheat engine threads on video spamming banners? Why was he not banned when he is on video using it? I forget the name but I'd be glad to post it when I can check later.

XANTITHESISX · June 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

XANTITHESISX wrote: »

... then once you reply to the thread it doesnt bump the thread

✭✭
I find it funny that this (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270635/exploiters-at-it-again#latest) thread doesn't bump to the top when someone replies that confirms my belief that ZOS is trying to bury these topics for appearance sakes... We wouldn't want the general public that may be checking out information on the game to see that cheaters are running rampant with no real consequences.

Thank you.. I really have been trying to stay positive about all of this and believing the best about ZOS… the forums have been so toxic as of late and I understand why. It is not to the fault of ZOS. We need to blame the cheater/exploiters… but as I have said, it is my opinion that is part of allowing the community to name these people. I will not advocate for verbal abuse of these players but I will never see anything wrong with naming them. I would not even want to be in a guild that harbored them.

Docmandu · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

Tavore1138 · June 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

As a species we're generally competitive - most people stay within the rules of the game (or society) if they are clear and reasonably well enforced but some will always seek to gain advantage by going outside the rules. This is why I find the approach ZOS take to 'known' cheats and exploits frustrating.

For example as a gaming community we are all pretty much aware that with the exception of spambush you can get onto a keep wall with various gap closers.... what many do not know is that this has been officially pronounced an exploit and a cheat... why do they not know? Because to be aware of it you need to dig around in multi page threads to find the posts from various mods or devs that together appear to make that a policy... or hack through the dev tracker looking for relevant posts to compare to the TOS.

What, IMHO, might help is a clear sticky'd thread pointing at a news item that announces that ZOS will be taking a much firmer stance on cheats going forward.

It should make clear in that article and thread that any tool that interferes with the client, the server or the communication between them is hacking and cheating and if proven will involve that account being banned forever.

In the thread there should be a maintained list of known exploits (i.e. bugs) that are deemed to be cheating if used outside their intended fashion - the penalties for abusing those cheats should also be clear be it a temp ban or a longer ban for repeated use.

Because right now we've got people exploiting the gap closer thing all day everyday in PvP, my guildies have reported and sent videos to ZOS but those guys are still playing. I spoke with someone in that alliance who I happen to have on my friends list and while that person considered it cheating they said that the people using it would not stop until they were clearly told it was cheating.

The point again is that this sort of info should be not be hidden in various posts on epic length threads but shouted from the rooftops so that there is no excuse for anyone not to know what is considered a cheat and that if someone sends a video of them using it then they WILL be banned.

I know ZOS do not like to communicate more than absolutely necessary but on this type of issue a clearer more open approach could help. No-one wants to know the specifics of what you are doing to catch people on the code side but clear statements on what is and isn't considered cheating on a case by case basis removes any grey areas.

TL;DR ZOS please communicate more about cheating/exploiting and... bump.

Alurria · June 2016

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

As a species we're generally competitive - most people stay within the rules of the game (or society) if they are clear and reasonably well enforced but some will always seek to gain advantage by going outside the rules. This is why I find the approach ZOS take to 'known' cheats and exploits frustrating.

For example as a gaming community we are all pretty much aware that with the exception of spambush you can get onto a keep wall with various gap closers.... what many do not know is that this has been officially pronounced an exploit and a cheat... why do they not know? Because to be aware of it you need to dig around in multi page threads to find the posts from various mods or devs that together appear to make that a policy... or hack through the dev tracker looking for relevant posts to compare to the TOS.

What, IMHO, might help is a clear sticky'd thread pointing at a news item that announces that ZOS will be taking a much firmer stance on cheats going forward.

It should make clear in that article and thread that any tool that interferes with the client, the server or the communication between them is hacking and cheating and if proven will involve that account being banned forever.

In the thread there should be a maintained list of known exploits (i.e. bugs) that are deemed to be cheating if used outside their intended fashion - the penalties for abusing those cheats should also be clear be it a temp ban or a longer ban for repeated use.

Because right now we've got people exploiting the gap closer thing all day everyday in PvP, my guildies have reported and sent videos to ZOS but those guys are still playing. I spoke with someone in that alliance who I happen to have on my friends list and while that person considered it cheating they said that the people using it would not stop until they were clearly told it was cheating.

The point again is that this sort of info should be not be hidden in various posts on epic length threads but shouted from the rooftops so that there is no excuse for anyone not to know what is considered a cheat and that if someone sends a video of them using it then they WILL be banned.

I know ZOS do not like to communicate more than absolutely necessary but on this type of issue a clearer more open approach could help. No-one wants to know the specifics of what you are doing to catch people on the code side but clear statements on what is and isn't considered cheating on a case by case basis removes any grey areas.

TL;DR ZOS please communicate more about cheating/exploiting and... bump.

This needs to be quoted, you expressed this very well. How do you expect people to play by the rules if they don't know them. Cheat engines are one thing, but using an ability that is working is another. There needs to be a distinction. For all of you wondering I haven't stepped foot in cryo since beta and then shortly after launch when the gap closer exploiting was in full swing. Personally, these tactics do not bother me to me it adds dimension to keep siegeing, in the absence of ladders or wall scaling apparatuses we have gap closers. Either make it legit or let it be widely known it is a bug and not to be used in this manner. We need official communication clearly posted and communicated to all players.

Just as in any company when the rules change notification is sent to all customers affected.

ИВАН_ВОДКА · June 2016

YESTERDAy i saw EP character PC NA with speedhack
he running VERY fast by foots and when he meet big water - he just running like Jesus

cannot report him because hes too fast

so CE still working, obviously

JamilaRaj · June 2016

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

As a species we're generally competitive - most people stay within the rules of the game (or society) if they are clear and reasonably well enforced but some will always seek to gain advantage by going outside the rules. This is why I find the approach ZOS take to 'known' cheats and exploits frustrating.

For example as a gaming community we are all pretty much aware that with the exception of spambush you can get onto a keep wall with various gap closers.... what many do not know is that this has been officially pronounced an exploit and a cheat... why do they not know? Because to be aware of it you need to dig around in multi page threads to find the posts from various mods or devs that together appear to make that a policy... or hack through the dev tracker looking for relevant posts to compare to the TOS.

What, IMHO, might help is a clear sticky'd thread pointing at a news item that announces that ZOS will be taking a much firmer stance on cheats going forward.

It should make clear in that article and thread that any tool that interferes with the client, the server or the communication between them is hacking and cheating and if proven will involve that account being banned forever.

In the thread there should be a maintained list of known exploits (i.e. bugs) that are deemed to be cheating if used outside their intended fashion - the penalties for abusing those cheats should also be clear be it a temp ban or a longer ban for repeated use.

Because right now we've got people exploiting the gap closer thing all day everyday in PvP, my guildies have reported and sent videos to ZOS but those guys are still playing. I spoke with someone in that alliance who I happen to have on my friends list and while that person considered it cheating they said that the people using it would not stop until they were clearly told it was cheating.

The point again is that this sort of info should be not be hidden in various posts on epic length threads but shouted from the rooftops so that there is no excuse for anyone not to know what is considered a cheat and that if someone sends a video of them using it then they WILL be banned.

I know ZOS do not like to communicate more than absolutely necessary but on this type of issue a clearer more open approach could help. No-one wants to know the specifics of what you are doing to catch people on the code side but clear statements on what is and isn't considered cheating on a case by case basis removes any grey areas.

TL;DR ZOS please communicate more about cheating/exploiting and... bump.

This needs to be quoted, you expressed this very well. How do you expect people to play by the rules if they don't know them. Cheat engines are one thing, but using an ability that is working is another. There needs to be a distinction. For all of you wondering I haven't stepped foot in cryo since beta and then shortly after launch when the gap closer exploiting was in full swing. Personally, these tactics do not bother me to me it adds dimension to keep siegeing, in the absence of ladders or wall scaling apparatuses we have gap closers. Either make it legit or let it be widely known it is a bug and not to be used in this manner. We need official communication clearly posted and communicated to all players.

Just as in any company when the rules change notification is sent to all customers affected.

So the company can not be (successfully) sued by customers. It is not as though customers actually read often lenghty, convoluted ToS agreements (which basically boil down to: 1) you agree with everything, 2) we guarantee nothing, 3) you can not sue us and 4) really, you can to sue us), deduce what is legit or not and adjust their behaviour.
Most people play by the rules because they are plain conformists doing what what people around do. Assuming people around play by the rules. If people around send other people to gas chambers, they will help them with that too.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

JamilaRaj wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

As a species we're generally competitive - most people stay within the rules of the game (or society) if they are clear and reasonably well enforced but some will always seek to gain advantage by going outside the rules. This is why I find the approach ZOS take to 'known' cheats and exploits frustrating.

For example as a gaming community we are all pretty much aware that with the exception of spambush you can get onto a keep wall with various gap closers.... what many do not know is that this has been officially pronounced an exploit and a cheat... why do they not know? Because to be aware of it you need to dig around in multi page threads to find the posts from various mods or devs that together appear to make that a policy... or hack through the dev tracker looking for relevant posts to compare to the TOS.

What, IMHO, might help is a clear sticky'd thread pointing at a news item that announces that ZOS will be taking a much firmer stance on cheats going forward.

It should make clear in that article and thread that any tool that interferes with the client, the server or the communication between them is hacking and cheating and if proven will involve that account being banned forever.

In the thread there should be a maintained list of known exploits (i.e. bugs) that are deemed to be cheating if used outside their intended fashion - the penalties for abusing those cheats should also be clear be it a temp ban or a longer ban for repeated use.

Because right now we've got people exploiting the gap closer thing all day everyday in PvP, my guildies have reported and sent videos to ZOS but those guys are still playing. I spoke with someone in that alliance who I happen to have on my friends list and while that person considered it cheating they said that the people using it would not stop until they were clearly told it was cheating.

The point again is that this sort of info should be not be hidden in various posts on epic length threads but shouted from the rooftops so that there is no excuse for anyone not to know what is considered a cheat and that if someone sends a video of them using it then they WILL be banned.

I know ZOS do not like to communicate more than absolutely necessary but on this type of issue a clearer more open approach could help. No-one wants to know the specifics of what you are doing to catch people on the code side but clear statements on what is and isn't considered cheating on a case by case basis removes any grey areas.

TL;DR ZOS please communicate more about cheating/exploiting and... bump.

This needs to be quoted, you expressed this very well. How do you expect people to play by the rules if they don't know them. Cheat engines are one thing, but using an ability that is working is another. There needs to be a distinction. For all of you wondering I haven't stepped foot in cryo since beta and then shortly after launch when the gap closer exploiting was in full swing. Personally, these tactics do not bother me to me it adds dimension to keep siegeing, in the absence of ladders or wall scaling apparatuses we have gap closers. Either make it legit or let it be widely known it is a bug and not to be used in this manner. We need official communication clearly posted and communicated to all players.

Just as in any company when the rules change notification is sent to all customers affected.

So the company can not be (successfully) sued by customers. It is not as though customers actually read often lenghty, convoluted ToS agreements (which basically boil down to: 1) you agree with everything, 2) we guarantee nothing, 3) you can not sue us and 4) really, you can to sue us), deduce what is legit or not and adjust their behaviour.
Most people play by the rules because they are plain conformists doing what what people around do. Assuming people around play by the rules. If people around send other people to gas chambers, they will help them with that too.

Comparing people that follow a video games rules to conformist and willing to enter gas chambers irl

2/10

Arthg · June 2016

JamilaRaj wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

How about you make a thread then where you post every month how many cheaters and exploiters you have caught in the past month? You could also add some other numbers like how many bans of each type you handed out or how many exploits have been fixed for example. That way people can see that something is being done about it.

That's seems pretty reasonable and doable. We'll talk with our Dev and Support teams about it.

Can I called it "CHEATER BANNORATED TALLY"?

Do it!! There's some FREE publicity to be had.. like this:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/no-more-mr-nice-ubisoft-first-time-division-cheaters-now-banned-permanently/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/blizzard-takes-zero-tolerance-stance-on-overwatch-cheating/

Also.. this shows ZOS isn't the only company having to deal with this.

As a species we're generally competitive - most people stay within the rules of the game (or society) if they are clear and reasonably well enforced but some will always seek to gain advantage by going outside the rules. This is why I find the approach ZOS take to 'known' cheats and exploits frustrating.

For example as a gaming community we are all pretty much aware that with the exception of spambush you can get onto a keep wall with various gap closers.... what many do not know is that this has been officially pronounced an exploit and a cheat... why do they not know? Because to be aware of it you need to dig around in multi page threads to find the posts from various mods or devs that together appear to make that a policy... or hack through the dev tracker looking for relevant posts to compare to the TOS.

What, IMHO, might help is a clear sticky'd thread pointing at a news item that announces that ZOS will be taking a much firmer stance on cheats going forward.

It should make clear in that article and thread that any tool that interferes with the client, the server or the communication between them is hacking and cheating and if proven will involve that account being banned forever.

In the thread there should be a maintained list of known exploits (i.e. bugs) that are deemed to be cheating if used outside their intended fashion - the penalties for abusing those cheats should also be clear be it a temp ban or a longer ban for repeated use.

Because right now we've got people exploiting the gap closer thing all day everyday in PvP, my guildies have reported and sent videos to ZOS but those guys are still playing. I spoke with someone in that alliance who I happen to have on my friends list and while that person considered it cheating they said that the people using it would not stop until they were clearly told it was cheating.

The point again is that this sort of info should be not be hidden in various posts on epic length threads but shouted from the rooftops so that there is no excuse for anyone not to know what is considered a cheat and that if someone sends a video of them using it then they WILL be banned.

I know ZOS do not like to communicate more than absolutely necessary but on this type of issue a clearer more open approach could help. No-one wants to know the specifics of what you are doing to catch people on the code side but clear statements on what is and isn't considered cheating on a case by case basis removes any grey areas.

TL;DR ZOS please communicate more about cheating/exploiting and... bump.

This needs to be quoted, you expressed this very well. How do you expect people to play by the rules if they don't know them. Cheat engines are one thing, but using an ability that is working is another. There needs to be a distinction. For all of you wondering I haven't stepped foot in cryo since beta and then shortly after launch when the gap closer exploiting was in full swing. Personally, these tactics do not bother me to me it adds dimension to keep siegeing, in the absence of ladders or wall scaling apparatuses we have gap closers. Either make it legit or let it be widely known it is a bug and not to be used in this manner. We need official communication clearly posted and communicated to all players.

Just as in any company when the rules change notification is sent to all customers affected.

So the company can not be (successfully) sued by customers. It is not as though customers actually read often lenghty, convoluted ToS agreements (which basically boil down to: 1) you agree with everything, 2) we guarantee nothing, 3) you can not sue us and 4) really, you can to sue us), deduce what is legit or not and adjust their behaviour.
Most people play by the rules because they are plain conformists doing what what people around do. Assuming people around play by the rules. If people around send other people to gas chambers, they will help them with that too.

How desperately conformist of you.
Derailing a thread by illustrating Godwin's law.
Fancy yourself a rebel, I guess.

Ouch.