Stamina only for skills...

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO · June 2014

...4th resource (endurance?) for stealth, sprint, dodge, block, cc-break.
Everyone has 1000 base.
Armorglyphs to raise it.

Your welcome

Ah and raise weaponskilldamage a little bit.

KracsNZ · June 2014

Yup, agreed with all of that. /signed.

Emian · June 2014

Number specifics not withstanding, /agreed

GrimCyclone · June 2014

Click insightful, agree, awesome on his post then guys.

Queripel · June 2014

Great idea!

Awesomed!

Darastix · June 2014

No, Stamina is fine the way it is. Once you learn to balance your combat abilities you will see this.

aipex8_ESO · June 2014

Stamina and endurance are basically the same thing, so it would be very confusing to have both. I think upping the discounts that you get from passives like Athletics is a better way to go. But, like Darastix said, it really doesn't have to be changed too much.

heitor · June 2014

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

Stamina and endurance are basically the same thing, so it would be very confusing to have both. I think upping the discounts that you get from passives like Athletics is a better way to go. But, like Darastix said, it really doesn't have to be changed too much.

Instead of calling Endurance, it could be called Energy.

zgrssd · June 2014

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO wrote: »

...4th resource (endurance?) for stealth, sprint, dodge, block, cc-break.
Everyone has 1000 base.
Armorglyphs to raise it.

You propably thought that up because Stam builds are not fully viable in PvP and lategame right now and having an extra stat for this would leave more for offensive actions.

The actually problem is that magica skills are just a bit too effective. They are in the process of nerfing the magica based abilities down to the stam effectivenes level (maybe slightyl below to account for extra Stam drains), after wich they will re-balance the PvE content.
I am confident the issue will soon (1-2 months) cease to exist. Fixes that only counter the symptoms instead of the Illness are never a good idea and your is targeted at the symptom.

Lynx7386 · June 2014

Removing the block, sprint, dodge, cc break, and stealth costs from stamina (making them use up a fourth 'energy' bar as is suggested here) would only partially fix the problem - though it is a very good fix IMO.

The second half of the problem comes in with stamina abilities across the board doing less damage and costing more than any equivalent magicka abilities, and with light armor offering better overall passives to magic than medium armor offers to stamina.

Light armor:
-Reduces the cost of all magicka based abilities, regardless of if they're class based, weapon based, guild based, etc.
-Increases spell penetration, while medium armor lacks any kind of armor penetration value.
-Reduces the cost of it's own active ability (Annulment) due to it being magicka based, while the active abilities from medium and heavy armor have nothing to reduce their cost.
-Can hit the armor cap nearly as easily as medium or heavy armor, thus nullifying any difference in survivability based on armor type.

Medium armor:
-Has no way to reduce stamina ability cost.
-Gives 11% more crit chance than light armor gives to magicka users, but that ends up being countered by the 20% crit from inner light that they have access to.
-Does not have significantly more survivability value than light armor.
-Does not reduce the cost of stamina abilities.

Heavy armor is just downright bad in all areas of the game right now, because nobody gets better performance out of it with any build than someone using light or even medium.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · June 2014

Darastix wrote: »

No, Stamina is fine the way it is. Once you learn to balance your combat abilities you will see this.

Said the mage.

Currently stamina builds are disadvantaged because they cannot afford to drain their stamina resource to zero on attacking like a mage can and still have the ability to base-attack and dodge/break/block/run.

There's a number of ways to address the problems but something has to be done because, atm, this game is lacking viable mundane weapon classes. It's mages, mages, mages. This was clearly not the intention and is a long way from WAI.

Mud_Puppy · June 2014

signed

Obscure · June 2014

Let's play devil's advocate, shall we?

Stamina is immediately no longer a required resource. If it's only used to manage skills that use it, this new "Endurance" resource now takes the center stage for all the current mundane uses of Stamina. Magicka based abilities vastly outnumber the Stamina abilities, so Magicka based specializations retain build versatility, whilst all Stamina based specializations persist to require the use of Magicka. The "Mage" archetype is now more viable than presently, freed from every Stamina based concession they needed to make with their build and shifted focus on "Endurance" completely ignoring Stamina... It's just a green bar on the screen that never moves. Cost reduction of the various uses of "Endurance" being grandfathered over from once effecting Stamina compound the lower viability of the Stamina specialization, as it's strong suit of being able to use the pool for these features now is limited by a second resource.

Put simply an "Endurance" bar means the Magicka specialized build still only needs to pay attention to (and gear for) 2 managed resources, but Stamina specialized builds must now manage 3. Players cannot ignore Magicka skills the way they can ignore Stamina skills for builds, and "Endurance" will ultimately underpower Stamina specialized players even further whilst persisting to encourage a meta game that is built on Light Armor and Staves. More damage on those Stamina skills for your Stamina specialization to compensate? The tarrget Mage could have higher "Endurance" and can out block, out run, out dodge, out bash, out sneak, and out CC break you all day long...and has superior cost reduction of his skills, more defense bypass, higher crit damage, all thanks to Light Armor and can do a wide variety more things than you can with Stamina (higher build versatility).

I'm gonna say no thanks. They can't balance a two resource system, what makes you think they could do a better job with three?

ferzalrwb17_ESO · June 2014

Solution to above concerns: Base Endurance on Stamina.
Changes for current magicka builds: none
Changes for stamina builds: Able to use stamina based skills more effectively

For the mages-only here (most of you), imagine if CC breaking consumed magicka (let alone block/dodge/run)...

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO · June 2014

The problem is. If you buff stamina skills your still have a disadvantage because you have to use stamina for other things too.

So if you buff stamina skills to the same power as magicka skills (or nerf magickaskills, doesnt matter. So if you balance them to the same level) but let staminaskills have lower costs then stamina will be overpowered cause it can be used more often then.

As long as you have two resources but one is only used for skills and the other for different things too its almost impossible to balance that.

So if you dont have to block,cc break,dodge. Stamina and magicka on same level = balanced.
If you have to block,cc,dodge. Stamina and magick on same level = magicka better again.
If you dont need to block,cc,dodge... stamina more powerful than magick = stamina better

Especially without cooldowns skills should be at the exact same level. But this would lead to stamina always be underpowered.

Either switch something to the magickaside (make it a magic dodge and cc break for example) so that both resource have to be used in more ways or my idea and balance stamina skills ti the exact same level as magickaskills (which also will be much much easier then)

Everything else will stay unbalanced any many many situations

Its hard to explain, as I am no native speaker, but what I try to explain is.

Its too hard to balance the way it is atm.
Too many different situations where you need stamina for other things or not.

Having another resource would make balancing soo much easier AND would buff medium armor if it would benefit stamina and (lets call it) energy. Heavy armor could benefit health and stamina (seems legit as it is heavy) and light benefit magicka and energy.

U see what I did here:
Light = be agil and do magic damage
Medium = be agil and do physical damage (at the same level as magic damage)
Heavy = have much health and do physical damage

dennis.schmelzleb16_ESO · June 2014

Ill post this in another post cause the other one will be too long otherwise.

So be a less tanky more agil tank with weapon = use heavy and medium
Less tanky more agil tank with magic = use heavy and light
Magic meele dd = medium + light
Tanky meele dd = medium + heavy
Etc.

Also with stamina and magicka at the same level there are more reasons to wear medium or heavy armor

Darastix · June 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Darastix wrote: »

No, Stamina is fine the way it is. Once you learn to balance your combat abilities you will see this.

Said the mage.

Currently stamina builds are disadvantaged because they cannot afford to drain their stamina resource to zero on attacking like a mage can and still have the ability to base-attack and dodge/break/block/run.

There's a number of ways to address the problems but something has to be done because, atm, this game is lacking viable mundane weapon classes. It's mages, mages, mages. This was clearly not the intention and is a long way from WAI.

Speak for yourself, i'm no mage. I'm fully decked out in lvl 40 heavy armor, duel wielding swords.