What is "The Endgame"?

Haxnschwammer · May 2014

I read quite often the last days that people
- are tired of questing and want to do "The Endgame"
- Are tired of leveling and want to do "The Endgame"
- are tired of grinding gear and want to do "The Endgame"

Ok, what is "The Endgame"?
Killing the same Boss again and again and again?
Rushing the same Dungeon again and again and again?
Farming Mobs for Gear again and again and again?

This is a serious question, what does "The Endgame" mean to you?
Is there something at all you would call "The Endgame"?

true2moon_ESO · May 2014

I would like to say PvP is the end game but even that is all *** up right now, so...

end game is unsubbing I think.

Preachan · May 2014

For me, the Endgame isn't dungeon grind or stuff like that.
Endgame for me is PVP with friends and people I met online.

anakaki · May 2014

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

I read quite often the last days that people
- are tired of questing and want to do "The Endgame"
- Are tired of leveling and want to do "The Endgame"
- are tired of grinding gear and want to do "The Endgame"

Ok, what is "The Endgame"?
Killing the same Boss again and again and again?
Rushing the same Dungeon again and again and again?
Farming Mobs for Gear again and again and again?

This is a serious question, what does "The Endgame" mean to you?
Is there something at all you would call "The Endgame"?

End game is content you focus on when you've reached level cap. It could be anything really but diversity is what makes people stay. An exempel of this is trials for dk and sorc and feeding your horse for temp and NB.

Edit: don't buy iPad air

true2moon_ESO · May 2014

anakaki wrote: »

An exempel of this is trials for dk and sorc and feeding your horse for temp and NB.

lol

zgrssd · May 2014

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Ok, what is "The Endgame"?
Killing the same Boss again and again and again?
Rushing the same Dungeon again and again and again?
Farming Mobs for Gear again and again and again?

Yes. In every MMO.

MMO are inherently goal-less/endless games. And they can only make so many Content patches. Especially in the first half year after launch, where everything is focussed on the cleaning the (natural) birthpains of a new MMO.

Ninnghizhidda · May 2014

Sadly, as in many cases and other MMOs, it means to run the very same dungeons, do the very same bosses for 100s or even 1000s of times, hoping to acquire that next elusive piece of "ultimate" gear. Or something like that.

More or less meaningless routine. Also, when you reach that stage you can obviously rage about "lack of content" and how "fail the game is". When new content arrives, you finish that in a few hours / days, and repeat the process.

Or, you can be online with a few (or more) good friends / people and enjoy doing those things together, even if it means it is the same things really. Because being with good company matters. Maybe.

Ah, for the "PK freaks", it probably means gloating some more about "uberness" and how you just wasted that clueless noob(s) who are such bad players. Sure, whatever floats your boats.

mutharex · May 2014

"Endgame" is an identificator, not of a stage or part of the game but of a particular type of person.

Turelus · May 2014

Endgame for me will be PVP because it's something which will constantly have content.
Normal PVE endgame is where I leave games, I don't want to run the same instance over and over just to find items to do the next one.

Mablung · May 2014

It is a mythical place in MMOs where carebears go to feed unicorns, slide down rainbows and take naps on soft, fluffy clouds.

KhajitFurTrader · May 2014

"Endgame" used to mean "gameplay shortly before, or at the game's end". Then the game ended, and play would stop. Unless you replayed it, if possible.

Along came MMOs. Primary design goal and promise to players: "As long as you pay, you can play" and, vice versa: "As long as you want play, you must pay". Instead of selling a box and earn big money only one time, try to keep earning a little bit of money over a much longer time. Instead of having only small, finite amounts of content at irregular intervals, MMOs promise to have endless amounts of content regularly. Win-Win.

Except... content cannot, by any means, be developed as fast as it's played. Solution: create "interesting (enough) repetition". As long as players have something to do, and they still want to do it, they will pay for it. This will tide you over until the next chunk of non-repetitive content. Rinse and repeat.

This was the stroke of genius, or the curse (however you want to see it) of WoW over the years: instead of training players to want and wait for non-repetitive content, they successfully conditioned them to wait for and expect the repetitive content at level cap, aka "the endgame".

Hence the confusion of some why there is already a VR12, and the constant asking for more "endgame", i.e. repetition ad nauseam.

Nermy · May 2014

To me the 'end-game' was a very hard raid or instance. Something you can test your skills against. Something that requires team-work, patience, strategy and playing the best you can and getting the best from your class...

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

PvP is my endgame in every MMO.

I only PvE to level, gear up, test skills and toy with builds.

CTraveler · May 2014

To me, "Endgame" is a term that should never have existed with MMOs. But to give it a definition as it exists... it is "the enjoyable content that you want to experience while playing."

To me the Journey itself of playing the game is the "endgame." You look, and experience, and think on what it is you're doing and have done...To simply state that only *one part* of the game is desirable is quite simply insulting to the concept of exploring and learning about the world around you, especially in a lore-rich game like the Elder Scrolls.

There are journals, and notes, and all kinds of NPC dialogue that most people just skip over in this rush for "End Game" and then they run those same paths over and over without doing something different....Mainly because most MMO's *don't* offer a choice in branching paths, or offer such a choice of random dialogue.

Most games have taught us that "You MUST rush to MAX LVL for ENDGAMEZ" and I feel like that's not the way to go. To me, the "Endgame" concept is actually playing the game and not caring about what level you're at or how fast you gain EXP. Endgame is reaching the end of everything there is and thinking, "I want to have the story continue."

Regoras · May 2014

When I get done with the game and don't resubscribe.

Catflinger · May 2014

That which keeps you playing the game after you've completed the main questline, killed the big baddie, and reached the level cap.

*shrug*

Bromburak · May 2014

anakaki wrote: »

End game is content you focus on when you've reached level cap.

This is the common understanding for most players and the definition in MMO design.

The problem with that is that TESO needs more PvE options beside PvP to fullfil this definition. Zenimax is aware about this but the question is when they start moving further into this direction and if the announced feature content (Darkbother Hood, Thieves Guild etc.) already will fit into V12 +

Otherwise it doesnt look that good from PvE perspective. Adventure zones are not delivered that fast and its not the core of the game anyway.

Luckily my focus is PvP and i can wait a couple more month for some PvE stuff but many others might not happy with it and actually forced to have a break if they are not going to level their alts.

NordJitsu · May 2014

For me its PvP. I want my character to reach an end point where he is as strong as I can make him so I can spend all my time doing nothing but fighting other players.

Every month or so I hope they'll release new content so I can get some variety.

Every 6 months to a year I'd hope for a VR increase so I can level up further.

Thalmar · May 2014

People doesn't need a content that force them to be competitive and see all other players as a potential threat and competitor. People needs to cooperate.

So called end-game builds a comunity full of elitists who ignores any kind of manners to get better gear to become stronger to feed their ego or while their testosterone push them to be more competititive. I was so hoping this time developers will build a community where they play together while they enjoy the journey, but it is obvious they want everyone rush to highest level possible to be competitive in end-game. If you ask my opinion end-game is where the game ends and it is time to move to another new title.

Rammi · May 2014

I believe when people say endgame they mean: My characters progress is "complete" in regards to leveling.So now my Characters strength is no longer gated by the core progress system but through my ability as a player and the gear I can acquire. In theory the playing field for all should be the same apart from those last two factors (Skill/Gear but build and balance does play a roll)

People as always go to talking about function rather than the reality of what people mean. PVP, RAIDS, Crafting etc are functions of end game but really getting to endgame means something different which is what I believe is at the core of the question asked by the OP.

Endgame is not "enjoyable content" as that is subjective and in theory leveling can be endgame to someone. Endgame is inherently linked to the core progress system in game that limits your ability to complete activities regardless of whether you are doing PVP, Raids, Questing.

Endgame to me means you now should be able to do anything you want in game and not be gated by the game itself.

Cybrdroyd · May 2014

What is this "Endgame" you speak of?

Of the countless mmos I have played over the past 15 years, I have yet to max level on a single one of them. Why? I don't know. I guess because I think its a damn shame to rush through a game just to get to this "Endgame" people talk about. It seems to me, once people get to "Endgame", they seem to whine quite a lot on the forums about how boring the game is now that they have gotten to "Endgame" or they say, "Oh the grind is just awful, and oh look, they just released more 'Endgame' content and now my gear is useless, lets go on another grind for a month until I get bored with 'Engame' again"

What is this ***? I'll tell you what it is, its a bunch of snot-nosed gamers who rush to beat the game so they can whine about it on the forums endlessly instead of rolling a new character and taking their time with the next playthrough.

Dumb ***.

bg22 · May 2014

End game to me is PvP. Being level cap so I'm as strong as possible, and doing dungeon runs to find new and better gear sets. I DO NOT want the level cap to increase every 1.5 months. Every 6-8 months? Sure.

I want enough time to experience lvl cap, gather great gear AND use the gear before the level cap is expanded. I've never heard of lvl cap increasing after only 45 days, and I'll add that it pissed me off.

End-game is NOT adding levels and copy/pasting code. That is prolonging actually having to create end-game. So hopefully the lvl cap is halted for several months now, and hopefully whoever brought up the idea of increasing lvl cap so quickly has been fired.

In a game where it is possible for lvl 10's to fight VRs, you only decrease the already small value of the lvl 10 by increasing the lvl cap further.

The grade school running back was already up against the high school senior defense, now you've sent them against college senior linebackers.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · May 2014

Nermy wrote: »

To me the 'end-game' was a very hard raid or instance. Something you can test your skills against. Something that requires team-work, patience, strategy and playing the best you can and getting the best from your class...

This is really lacking in ESO and a lot of games. i remember how raids use to be. The prep before each one, the arrival to the raid area overland usually in some hostile area. The group set up the raid leader hoping everyone remembers to run left when the boss bellowed, stomped and farted. And then groaning when half the people forgot and went right. Ah good times. Then I remmber the raid when it was on farm status and everyone got their gear and by the time that occured, new content to level and new raid to master appeared. Thats what I remember end game to be. Somewhere sometime that all changed.