Craglorn = V10 or not?

PharmaChief · May 2014

MrDosu wrote: »

I dont understand a simple criticism that gets constantly raised:

Howso is veteran levelling boring compared to the rest of the game when it is EXACTLY the same mechanic as 1-50, just a lot more challenging difficulty wise?

Should it not be more exciting? Do people want easier content (wich is viable, a lot of people prefer casual play with less chance of failure)? Am i missing something?

Most people want a change in their routine after level 50 and are disappointed that game play remains the same... Also if you are already playing more than one faction then you will be forced to replay the same things again. Another factor imo is that until 1.1 update comes out, it is not possible to gain enough vr experience by doing pvp alone...

Blackwidow · May 2014

Pewpie wrote: »

I got bored in mid V2 and started an alt instead.

I have to ask.

Sense veteran levels are basically the same as making a new alt, why did you not just continue with the veteran levels?

Blackwidow · May 2014

NiRN wrote: »

It's quiet as a graveyard and feels empty.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97067/the-graveyard#latest

dmanlongb14_ESO · May 2014

MrDosu wrote: »

I dont understand a simple criticism that gets constantly raised:

Howso is veteran levelling boring compared to the rest of the game when it is EXACTLY the same mechanic as 1-50, just a lot more challenging difficulty wise?

Should it not be more exciting? Do people want easier content (wich is viable, a lot of people prefer casual play with less chance of failure)? Am i missing something?

Well there are a few reasons.

1. Questing is about story. I don't want to give spoilers, but at the end of 50,you finish the game and it's very epic. V1 - V10 = No main characters, no Main quests, No Factions - The entire V1 - V10 content is side quests, public dungeons, dark anchors an the other stuff. There is absolutly no epic moments besides the little area quests. It is truly a story without a antagonist.

2. Segway from 1. There is no protagonist. The most important part of the story is missing - You. Hard to again explain without spoilers, but you are not you. You are a ghost experiencing someones vision. To add fuel to the fire - IT'S THE OTHER FACTIONS STORY - Yes, your sworn enemy. How would Star Wars feel if you destroyed the Death Star as Luke Skywalker and then all of a sudden, you are replaying the entire story as a faceless Stormtrooper killing Luke's parents on Tatooine?

3. VR is lonely right now. Why, well because it takes forever to level. I started at 5 day early access. I play every night for a few hours, but I am not hardcore. The VR levels are not filled with people like the lower levels. I have to wait in public dungeons for help and stand at dark anchors spamming LFM for 10 minutes sometimes to get enough to do it. I sat at a world boss last night for a long while and gave up because I could not find people to do it. This will change when groups catch up, but right now, VR is not very populated and I did not rush at all. I crafted and explored and completed each map. All the rushers are at Vr10 now.

4. There are no alternatives to leveling. PvP Xp is way too low at the moment and Dungeons are challenging - so wipes will surely happen. This costs gold and does not reward enough xp to make it worth it to do, besides one time. Gear is replaced every level, so there is basically no reason to do anything besides quest or grind.

5. Lower levels are worthless. Vr10 is the only level that matters. All endgame content is for max VR. So, the only incentive is to rush to VR. MMORPGs are about building your character. If your character simply gets stronger by leveling, then the best thing to do is level. Even crafting is only important at max level. The lowest level hard mode dungeon drops VR5 loot. This totally invalidates all lower VR levels.

I should add, that I do really like this game a lot and it does some amazing stuff. There is a lot to build on and I think the developers created an amazing game. I do recommend it. The veteran levels suck, plain and simple. They need to change them and its not enjoyable. When I hit 50, I went "Wow, what a great ending and what a great game!".. Veteran Content makes me say "I think Im gonna watch some TV". It's just not fun.

RylukShouja · May 2014

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I think people are missing the fact that this is simply the "first" content patch. It happens in this one they are introducing V10-12, plus group questing plus 12 man raids (along with various fixes, balancing etc.) It is not the "only" content patch ever, nor the last. I won't be using craglorn for while but I am completely happy it is being put in. I fell sorry for producers sometimes, it is a no win situation forums wise no matter what they do

It's not a no-win. They just need to do it better. Introduce bug fixes, endgame content, levelling content, an easymode I-win button version of the game, pvp improvements, epic crafting fixes and sets, a new class or four, and then everyone would be happy.

Oh...but then people would complain about the color of the I-win button. Never mind, you have a point.

NerfEverything · May 2014

It's not like Craglorn content is going to disappear after some V10s complete it. Once you get to V10, you can do it too. I don't understand where the complaining is coming from. You don't see level 35's complaining that they can't do the VR zones. Why are VR1-5s complaining that they can't do the V10 zone?

Do you think you should just be automatically allowed to do all the content at any time? That is stupid and completely defeats the purpose of progression. This thread should be closed.

Pewpie · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Pewpie wrote: »

I got bored in mid V2 and started an alt instead.

I have to ask.

Sense veteran levels are basically the same as making a new alt, why did you not just continue with the veteran levels?

Because you can actually get into the story (although i rarely do) if you play a character that is part of the storyline. AND you actually get some sort of "reward" by playing an alt as you get levels and rise with the content.

VR is a looooong booooring grind, it give you NO rewards whatsoever except for a skyshard here and there and some new gear (that looks exactly like the ones you had). You can play through a whole map and almost not see your experience bar change. It is a bad game design, based on the fact that they did not have the game finished and released it with copy/paste "endgame".

Zabus · May 2014

I heard craglorn is v1-10, but I won't be taking any low levels with me

deamor666eb17_ESO · May 2014

Even though Veteran levels do bring you skill points and better gear, you do not gain any more attribute points in them.

And the people who really do want to do Craglorn as a certain specced character has most likely already maxed out the skills he wants to use before they even reached VR 1.

So I don't see a huge problem. Craglorn will most likely be pretty much accessible at VR 1. As long as you have a group of people with speccs maxed.

LIQUID741 · May 2014

I could care less about the new content for the moment...looking forward to maybe a fix to the NB skills...anxious to see if they applied themselves to fixes or content to the minimals.

Alphashado · May 2014

People usually complain when a new MMO takes too long adding new content. This has to be the first time I've ever seen people complaining that an MMO added content too soon...

It's better to have it and and not be ready for it than to be ready for it and not have it. Some people will never be happy. If they delayed Craglorn, then all the people that are ready for it would be screaming at zos for delaying something that was promised before launch and threatening to leave because they are bored.

YstradClud · May 2014

I wouldn't sweat it too much about not being vr10 unless you want to run trials early. There is going to be other things for people to do even if you haven't got a spot in a trials group.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

countesscrownub18_ESO wrote: »

I agree with you here. This is crazy. They are literally making less then 1 percent of their population happy when 80 percent or more is pissed about the exploits and bots. *shakes head* I don't get it.

Well what do you expect, there is not much endgame..
If you are v10 you will understand, and its not 1%.. actually quite a lot of people are v10 already

DLaren · May 2014

MrDosu wrote: »

I dont understand a simple criticism that gets constantly raised:

Howso is veteran levelling boring compared to the rest of the game when it is EXACTLY the same mechanic as 1-50, just a lot more challenging difficulty wise?

Should it not be more exciting? Do people want easier content (wich is viable, a lot of people prefer casual play with less chance of failure)? Am i missing something?

People bought an Elder Scrolls game and are upset that they have to do "too many" Elder Scrolls quests...silly, I know.

Selstad · May 2014

This brings back "memories" from the WoW forums, how Blizzard locked away content from their players and a whole lot of "WAAAAAAAH!" and crying from some players that were very vocal.

The burning crusade is by many considered the best expansion to world of warcraft, it had a major increase in subscription and it was also one of the hardest expansions out there. If you weren't dedicated and hardcore about it, you'd probably never see a raid boss. It took the best raiding guilds a whole lot of time to get down all the bosses, and they didn't have all bosses down until after the first content patch.

What relevance has that to Craglorn? Well it disproves that a whole lot of players will - without question - leave since Craglorn is for "hardcore" players. Give players something to stretch after, something to accomplish, and they'll stay. It's a lot more enticing for people to stay and maybe get there eventually, than having things handed to them. Again, look at WoW, they handed out raids and dungeons without a thought, trivializing the content using automated tools that paired you with others and teleported you to the raid or dungeon in question. And what has happened? WoW has dived to around 7.6M subscribers, down from 12M which they had in mid Wrath.

I like that the game here is locked away behind dedication and doesn't hand things out freely. It gives both casual and hardcore players something to reach for. It's very bad that MMOs these days always seem to boil down to people whining about how the game is locked away, then leave when handed things to them because the game is too easy. I hope that Zenimax keeps a firm hand on their production and don't cave in for these empty cries of despair. They can lose a few of the whining casual players this way - which isn't all that bad - or they can lose both casual and hardcore players if they cave inn and start trivializing the content like Blizzard have done with WoW. I think I prefer the first option.

JinShepard01 · May 2014

My two cents is that they made a mistake with the Veteran way of life.

I like alts, I was looking forward to the fact of three sides. Then veteran came to be and read info about it and I knew, it's anti alts for me. If I want to experience the most of the game I have to level to V10. Even though I dont want to, I want to experience those sides with my alts, but alas.

Then They could have just made Craglorn scale better or make areas that was suggested a few posts above, 1-12. Then, EVERYONE is happy. But Zenimax seems to make choices that makes only a few happy.

Also, yes they are quests that are elder scroll like, but only the stories are diffferent, the rest is exactly the same from 1-50. I already saved a couple of npcs in a public dungeon deciding to have a change of heart and doesn't want to be part of the bandits anymore. Eh, I did that too on Ebonheart side already! Lame..

I got 5 more Veteran level to go, and iam close to burning out, and I even toke it rather slow.

Pewpie · May 2014

I dont think wow is loosing players due to content updates or whatever.

They loose players because the game feels old, graphics are a pure CRAP, people get bored, new games pop up that might look more fun to play. And WoW is not the game you probably want to start out with in your mmo career nowdays. There are tons of better looking games that will attract all the newcomers.

Or hell, they grow up, get kids and can't play silly games anymore. People that started wow vanilla as teens are now driving around in volvos, have dogs and a bunch of kids.