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Are you fed up of the constant nerfs & nerf threads for PvP balance?
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reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Noplaysforfun wrote: »Nearly every post these days on this forum is a nerf this & nerf that for the sake of PvP, I for one am getting sick of seeing it & having nerfs in PvE & PvP for the sake of PvP balance to the point I am questioning if I should continue playing the game I have played since beta if the nerf hammer is going to keep effecting builds I do, mats ain't cheap & it's time consuming.
The only toxicity I see is coming from the PvE'rs trying to, yet again, claim they are somehow victims of the PvP players. Multiple people in this thread have even suggested removing PvP from the game entirely. It doesn't get any more toxic than that.
Edited by reazea on 5 September 2026 22:142 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »ZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
That would require more staff to be hired/delegated to a testing task.
They did just had a wave of layoffs, and IIRC it's still not really over but I get mixed signals.
My former coworker always joked you can spend a work week "licking walls" looking for a crack in the world's boundaries, but a player will still find a hole in it and clip through.
So I imagine that even if ZOS went that direction, it still wouldn't be enough because its a team of few people vs whole playerbase's creativity.
@Luneca pointed out to me the matter of how many people actually want a nerf or buff, and that's a great point.
If the vibe is that ZOS does not listen, or however they collect the data on what should be nerfed/buffed is not satisfying - then maybe using the feedback system to submit nerf/buff requests could be a more streamlined solution.
That way we'd see if, for example, Negate Magic really is a problematic skill or is it just a selected few that find it problematic.
The request/suggestion to focus on Class Reworks already has better turnover for voting in the Feedbacks than that one poll on the forum in General suggestions (+2k vs ~150 people had voted), so by that alone it looks like its working.
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
These aren't "cracks" though. These are glaring imbalances that go live that could have easily been spotted. Microsoft has the resources to hire a dedicated team to playtest their combat. There is really no good reason why they don't. They had a large staff before the layoffs you mentioned, and they still didn't do it. So, it's clear to me this is not resource issue. It's just their general design philosophy that has decided - for whatever reason - to rely on player feedback for balance purposes, and that is a mistake.
Also; if they would make more of an effort to balance their combat and hire a dedicated team for that purpose, it would end up making them more money (not less). Because I imagine that is the root cause of why many players cancel their subscriptions in the first place. I know it sure was mine. So, it would be worth the investment. Nothing is more frustrating for an individual playing a game then to have their hard work gutted or removed entirely because something was deemed imbalanced by other players. The live server should not be treated as a testing ground.2 -
playsforfun✭✭✭✭Yesplaysforfun wrote: »Nearly every post these days on this forum is a nerf this & nerf that for the sake of PvP, I for one am getting sick of seeing it & having nerfs in PvE & PvP for the sake of PvP balance to the point I am questioning if I should continue playing the game I have played since beta if the nerf hammer is going to keep effecting builds I do, mats ain't cheap & it's time consuming.
The only toxicity I see is coming from the PvE'rs trying to, yet again, claim they are somehow victims of the PvP players. Multiple people in this thread have even suggested removing PvP from the game entirely. It doesn't get any more toxic than that.
It's coming both sides, the division is quite clear but keep the thread constructive, a suggestion is not toxic, it's an option for sure if it can't be balance & is broken then removal of a game feature from the game is for sure an option it's not a path I would personally take, I want to see both PvP & PvE thrive, there are definitely better suggestions out there than complete removal of PvP for sure, maybe something like PvP has to wear PvP gear & PvE has to wear PvE gear, DCUO did this & I know other mmo's do this as well, it's the only way I see real balance without effecting eachother, this way the two are balanced separately in tandem with one another, to do this updating useless PvP sets to have similar set bonus that PvE have so you still have the variety to choose from so you still can enjoy the playstyles you would like to have within the game.
*Edit* I am going to say this with the current trajectory no one is winning not PvE & not PvP, people are leaving from both sides which isn't good for either of the playerbase, you have to see the bigger picture here, it's a game with uncertainty currently we don't know what is going to happen in the future but this is an old mmo now which is struggling to retain new players & slowly has been dripping players over the years, if we want this game to exist for many more years we need to figure out a solution that works for both PvE & PvP, also we don't know if the big M will do more layoffs, so this is something that should be up on the top of priority list while we still have time.Edited by playsforfun on 6 September 2026 05:232 -
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭✭YesCatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »I sentence the OP to 50 hours of mandatory cyrodiil front lines for this offense. You will come to love the labors of balance and suffer its faults until then.
People who wanted to try to do Veterancy and thought it was fun to play the new WW and DK are walking away from the game now. They are already off the collapsing trial rosters. So are the Wardens and Signet users you had ruined. So are the Sorcerers you want gutted. And they aren’t going to attempt to finish it, aren’t going to wait for reworks and have and are still moving into other games now. Just because the other 6 Classes have bad Sustain doesn't mean you ruin the 2 that don't. They aren't broken and neither is Sorcerer. You finish the other ones. And the more people that read these threads and see it's the same toxic people, with the same bad attitudes and the constant calls to ruin everyone's characters, the more people understand that investing another penny in this game is pointless. It's the same thing as paying ball groups and nerf callers to ruin the entire game while every one of you demonize the subscription of millions of other people. Whether they play PvP or not. Because you died, and everyone else should be nerfed🤡
It is abundantly clear to everyone that every single one of our characters will be immediately destroyed upon release now. And they are being destroyed. Nerfs have never, do not and will never create balance. They have not created balance in 11 years! You are attempting to prop up a broken and unbalanceable state of combat that is a subdivision of what was once one of the greatest MMOs of all time. Even suggesting otherwise is fallacy. Show me when balance was achieved in 11 straight years of nerfs.
It's time to try the only thing we have never tried. That's STOPPING THE NERFS. It's time to stop letting an absolute minority of Ball Groups and nerf callers influence more bad decisions by Zos. I strongly urge the developers to investigate Guild activity, Group Finder activity, PvP player counts and ques in relation to these unjustified, unreasonable and game killing nerfs. And check the percentages against the entire overall game population in direct correlation to them. Not just the smallest pond of people who want clicks on their streams and websites. And do a complete in game survey of the entire game population about the reality if where these nerfs stem from and how many people have left and are expected to leave when they happen. And incorporate it against the same numbers over the entire history of Eso. And also to take back control of their own combat system, hire professionals and eliminate the PTS in its entirety.
Something has to change. What has been going on and is going on is not going to work anymore.
So basically, they are quitting because their cheese melted? Is it their first time?
And if someone only plays a game mode because they can build to become a god without any thought, then it literally proves balance is bad and needs adjusting.
Lastly, how can taking power that wasn't there a two to three patches ago "ruin" a game that was functioning without it?
Those are things you and anyone else that feels the same way need to answer. Somehow I don't think a convincing answer will ever be found.
Now that you mention it, remove Subclassing. Start there, then don't add any costs to the zero cost abilities either. Also, don't consider nerfing block like they're talking about in the pts thread. Haven't needed any of these in 10 years1 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭✭YesOceanchanter wrote: »ZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
That would require more staff to be hired/delegated to a testing task.
They did just had a wave of layoffs, and IIRC it's still not really over but I get mixed signals.
My former coworker always joked you can spend a work week "licking walls" looking for a crack in the world's boundaries, but a player will still find a hole in it and clip through.
So I imagine that even if ZOS went that direction, it still wouldn't be enough because its a team of few people vs whole playerbase's creativity.
@Luneca pointed out to me the matter of how many people actually want a nerf or buff, and that's a great point.
If the vibe is that ZOS does not listen, or however they collect the data on what should be nerfed/buffed is not satisfying - then maybe using the feedback system to submit nerf/buff requests could be a more streamlined solution.
That way we'd see if, for example, Negate Magic really is a problematic skill or is it just a selected few that find it problematic.
The request/suggestion to focus on Class Reworks already has better turnover for voting in the Feedbacks than that one poll on the forum in General suggestions (+2k vs ~150 people had voted), so by that alone it looks like its working.
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
These aren't "cracks" though. These are glaring imbalances that go live that could have easily been spotted. Microsoft has the resources to hire a dedicated team to playtest their combat. There is really no good reason why they don't. They had a large staff before the layoffs you mentioned, and they still didn't do it. So, it's clear to me this is not resource issue. It's just their general design philosophy that has decided - for whatever reason - to rely on player feedback for balance purposes, and that is a mistake.
Also; if they would make more of an effort to balance their combat and hire a dedicated team for that purpose, it would end up making them more money (not less). Because I imagine that is the root cause of why many players cancel their subscriptions in the first place. I know it sure was mine. So, it would be worth the investment. Nothing is more frustrating for an individual playing a game then to have their hard work gutted or removed entirely because something was deemed imbalanced by other players. The live server should not be treated as a testing ground.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
The point of this anecdote was to portray that playerbase is in vastly larger numbers than that imaginary "team of professionals" being proposed.
A team of, say, 20 can test only so much within given time window.
I wouldn't hold my breath ZOS hires some PvP professionals to test the balance.
I'm pretty sure ZOS already has something like a balance/combat team, but the wishes of some players don't align with whatever they are doing + long cycles between patches do make it look like they don't listen because the fix is not wthin 2h of making the post.
As for the rest - sorry, but its "tell me you never worked corporate without telling me you never worked corporate" type of situation.
It's not as simple as you're making it to be, and the topic is not really about it, so I won't address that further.
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Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoOceanchanter wrote: »Oceanchanter wrote: »ZOS needs their own team of experts to test new skills and gear before they go live. Relying on player input after the fact to balance your game through nerfs is a recipe for disaster for many reasons.
That would require more staff to be hired/delegated to a testing task.
They did just had a wave of layoffs, and IIRC it's still not really over but I get mixed signals.
My former coworker always joked you can spend a work week "licking walls" looking for a crack in the world's boundaries, but a player will still find a hole in it and clip through.
So I imagine that even if ZOS went that direction, it still wouldn't be enough because its a team of few people vs whole playerbase's creativity.
@Luneca pointed out to me the matter of how many people actually want a nerf or buff, and that's a great point.
If the vibe is that ZOS does not listen, or however they collect the data on what should be nerfed/buffed is not satisfying - then maybe using the feedback system to submit nerf/buff requests could be a more streamlined solution.
That way we'd see if, for example, Negate Magic really is a problematic skill or is it just a selected few that find it problematic.
The request/suggestion to focus on Class Reworks already has better turnover for voting in the Feedbacks than that one poll on the forum in General suggestions (+2k vs ~150 people had voted), so by that alone it looks like its working.
Still doesn't solve the issue of such nerfs or buffs affecting PvE, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
These aren't "cracks" though. These are glaring imbalances that go live that could have easily been spotted. Microsoft has the resources to hire a dedicated team to playtest their combat. There is really no good reason why they don't. They had a large staff before the layoffs you mentioned, and they still didn't do it. So, it's clear to me this is not resource issue. It's just their general design philosophy that has decided - for whatever reason - to rely on player feedback for balance purposes, and that is a mistake.
Also; if they would make more of an effort to balance their combat and hire a dedicated team for that purpose, it would end up making them more money (not less). Because I imagine that is the root cause of why many players cancel their subscriptions in the first place. I know it sure was mine. So, it would be worth the investment. Nothing is more frustrating for an individual playing a game then to have their hard work gutted or removed entirely because something was deemed imbalanced by other players. The live server should not be treated as a testing ground.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
The point of this anecdote was to portray that playerbase is in vastly larger numbers than that imaginary "team of professionals" being proposed.
A team of, say, 20 can test only so much within given time window.
I wouldn't hold my breath ZOS hires some PvP professionals to test the balance.
I'm pretty sure ZOS already has something like a balance/combat team, but the wishes of some players don't align with whatever they are doing + long cycles between patches do make it look like they don't listen because the fix is not wthin 2h of making the post.
As for the rest - sorry, but its "tell me you never worked corporate without telling me you never worked corporate" type of situation.
It's not as simple as you're making it to be, and the topic is not really about it, so I won't address that further.
The whole QC argument remains moot as long as ZOS is willing to release broken content against better knowledge. Many severe issues have been spotted and highlighted multiple times already upon the release of patch notes. Cramming class balancing into PTS cycles seems to be a losing strategy, if the quality of changes is regularly not even making it through the conceptual/planning stages.
PTS should be purely for implementation testing and combat DEVs should work closely with community feedback.0 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Noplaysforfun wrote: »playsforfun wrote: »Nearly every post these days on this forum is a nerf this & nerf that for the sake of PvP, I for one am getting sick of seeing it & having nerfs in PvE & PvP for the sake of PvP balance to the point I am questioning if I should continue playing the game I have played since beta if the nerf hammer is going to keep effecting builds I do, mats ain't cheap & it's time consuming.
The only toxicity I see is coming from the PvE'rs trying to, yet again, claim they are somehow victims of the PvP players. Multiple people in this thread have even suggested removing PvP from the game entirely. It doesn't get any more toxic than that.
It's coming both sides, the division is quite clear but keep the thread constructive, a suggestion is not toxic, it's an option for sure if it can't be balance & is broken then removal of a game feature from the game is for sure an option it's not a path I would personally take, I want to see both PvP & PvE thrive, there are definitely better suggestions out there than complete removal of PvP for sure, maybe something like PvP has to wear PvP gear & PvE has to wear PvE gear, DCUO did this & I know other mmo's do this as well, it's the only way I see real balance without effecting eachother, this way the two are balanced separately in tandem with one another, to do this updating useless PvP sets to have similar set bonus that PvE have so you still have the variety to choose from so you still can enjoy the playstyles you would like to have within the game.
*Edit* I am going to say this with the current trajectory no one is winning not PvE & not PvP, people are leaving from both sides which isn't good for either of the playerbase, you have to see the bigger picture here, it's a game with uncertainty currently we don't know what is going to happen in the future but this is an old mmo now which is struggling to retain new players & slowly has been dripping players over the years, if we want this game to exist for many more years we need to figure out a solution that works for both PvE & PvP, also we don't know if the big M will do more layoffs, so this is something that should be up on the top of priority list while we still have time.
No.
The entire premise of your thread is baseless.
Sets and skills are not nerfed because they are over performing in PvP. Sets are nerfed because they are over performing in every aspect of the game. It's just that the PvP'rs know how to get the most out of the toolbox and quickly figure out what is and isn't OP.
Your OP is designed to create and encourage a rift between PvE and PvP and blame PvP players for actions ZOS takes.2 -
ellmarie✭✭✭✭YesYes, and it hasn't been just happening these days. It's been like this for years. I play on console, so for years I had no add-ons or anything and building a character to the level and strength you wanted was a milestone. 'Yay I finally did a dungeon or trial to get the right gear'! It was a feat to get your build to a level that you could actually fight a boss yourself or do single play. So, for them to nerf things that get too powerful on your PvE build has always been frustrating for me. If there's certain gear that's better for PvE and/or in PvP lands, just dedicate changing the gear buffs instead of the skill lines. I mean you wouldn't take your PvE build into PvP generally, so I'm not sure why it has to be a nerf to the whole skill. Why does it have to be balanced. There could be dedicated classes or whatever for each how you play.Xbox X- NA0 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭playsforfun wrote: »Nearly every post these days on this forum is a nerf this & nerf that for the sake of PvP, I for one am getting sick of seeing it & having nerfs in PvE & PvP for the sake of PvP balance to the point I am questioning if I should continue playing the game I have played since beta if the nerf hammer is going to keep effecting builds I do, mats ain't cheap & it's time consuming.
The only toxicity I see is coming from the PvE'rs trying to, yet again, claim they are somehow victims of the PvP players. Multiple people in this thread have even suggested removing PvP from the game entirely. It doesn't get any more toxic than that.
I'm guessing you didn't see the number of comments just very recently deleted. Some of them were outright nasty.Edited by DenverRalphy on 6 September 2026 14:402 -
playsforfun✭✭✭✭Yesplaysforfun wrote: »playsforfun wrote: »Nearly every post these days on this forum is a nerf this & nerf that for the sake of PvP, I for one am getting sick of seeing it & having nerfs in PvE & PvP for the sake of PvP balance to the point I am questioning if I should continue playing the game I have played since beta if the nerf hammer is going to keep effecting builds I do, mats ain't cheap & it's time consuming.
The only toxicity I see is coming from the PvE'rs trying to, yet again, claim they are somehow victims of the PvP players. Multiple people in this thread have even suggested removing PvP from the game entirely. It doesn't get any more toxic than that.
It's coming both sides, the division is quite clear but keep the thread constructive, a suggestion is not toxic, it's an option for sure if it can't be balance & is broken then removal of a game feature from the game is for sure an option it's not a path I would personally take, I want to see both PvP & PvE thrive, there are definitely better suggestions out there than complete removal of PvP for sure, maybe something like PvP has to wear PvP gear & PvE has to wear PvE gear, DCUO did this & I know other mmo's do this as well, it's the only way I see real balance without effecting eachother, this way the two are balanced separately in tandem with one another, to do this updating useless PvP sets to have similar set bonus that PvE have so you still have the variety to choose from so you still can enjoy the playstyles you would like to have within the game.
*Edit* I am going to say this with the current trajectory no one is winning not PvE & not PvP, people are leaving from both sides which isn't good for either of the playerbase, you have to see the bigger picture here, it's a game with uncertainty currently we don't know what is going to happen in the future but this is an old mmo now which is struggling to retain new players & slowly has been dripping players over the years, if we want this game to exist for many more years we need to figure out a solution that works for both PvE & PvP, also we don't know if the big M will do more layoffs, so this is something that should be up on the top of priority list while we still have time.
No.
The entire premise of your thread is baseless.
Sets and skills are not nerfed because they are over performing in PvP. Sets are nerfed because they are over performing in every aspect of the game. It's just that the PvP'rs know how to get the most out of the toolbox and quickly figure out what is and isn't OP.
Your OP is designed to create and encourage a rift between PvE and PvP and blame PvP players for actions ZOS takes.
You are not seeing the bigger picture this effects both sides, if people leave the game it effects both PvE & PvP & the game itself in general.
If we want this game to be around for a long time it's something that needs to be discussed, if we brush it under the table it'll be too lateEdited by playsforfun on 6 September 2026 16:510
