ZOS - HA builds need your help, we are dying.

tixiyweter · September 4

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

Hello.

We need your help. With the latest rework of the Lightning Staff, we lost the ability to properly damage large groups of targets.
Please restore the passive. Our build was built on it, without it, we're just wasting our time heavy-attacking.

For example, to kill a bunch of mobs in Craglorn (while gathering resources), we used to use 1-2 heavy attacks before nerf.
A DK or Arcanist also kills mobs in one breath or beam.

Now, to kill a bunch of three mobs, we need to use 3-6 heavy attacks (damaging one mob at a time). Our damage against AoE mobs has dropped threefold!
This is a huge nerf to our builds, especially considering we don't have a lot of damage, and that was the key to our builds—good AoE damage.
Now it's gone, and we're extremely sad because our builds are completely broken.
It's like heavy attacking in random sets—the result is almost the same.
We loved our builds, we played them all this time - and they were the best the game could give to us.

This latest explosive heavy attack is extremely inconvenient - we don't like it. It ia extremly uncomfortable to play now.

We played like this for an entire patch, and many got upset and quit the game. Those who remained are now writing to you asking you to save our builds and fix the Lightning Staff passive to what it was before the rework.
(So that all Lightning Staff HA is AoE).

We're not asking for tons of damage, we're just asking for a return of what was unfairly taken from us.
DK and Arcanist have a similar skill, it's not an imbalance—after all, we dealt this damage with a heavy attack, we were good at AoE damage. Now we're bad at everything.
Our builds don't work in PvP (the sets and skills were disabled in PvP, even though we enjoyed playing PvP, it's a shame such an update was made).

Also, Lightning Staff heavy attacks used to tick 4 times instead of 3 before some patch, and we lost some damage from this too. This was compensated by increasing Empower's strength.
But our damage output remained roughly the same as always. We do not make 200k DPS in single target as some builds did.
Our sets are outdated. I'd like to see them reworked so they all deal damage on par with the Sergeant's set, because it turns out they're all useless since there's a Sergeant, and you just always choose him.
I'd like the numbers on the other sets to be adjusted to match him, so we have a choice of what to wear.

If we're completely cut off from PvP, please at least let us play PvE normally, because it's incredibly unfair. We created these builds for ourselves, and we enjoyed playing them.
We don't want to play like everyone else, using light attacks - we don't like that kind of gameplay.
The game has introduced long-casting skills—an alternative to HA—but we still want to play heavy attacks! And we had that opportunity, please don't take it away!

So please give us back our AoE damage, bring back the Lightning Staff's AoE passive. We were the only ones using it, so why was our builds subjected to such unfounded hate?
We want fairness, and if there are new builds with huge AoE damage and less single-target damage, we want to occupy our niche in it, on par with other AoE builds. Don't deprive us of this opportunity we've had since the very beginning of the game.
We do very little single-target damage, and AoE damage is all we have left. Don't take that away either.

Thank you.

I haven’t played Heavy Attack builds in the past, but I don’t think they’re weak today. Maybe veterans see things differently, but as a new player I’ve been using an HA build recently—even in PvP on my Sorcerer—and I’ve had a lot of fun. It might not be meta, but I can still grab some kills and be annoying. Would I like more damage? Sure. But I don’t think it feels weak right now.

HA sets do not work in PVP now. Only sergant and knight slayer still remain

So it was quite time ago you make it ) I love HA PVP too. It was not win condition but you can do a lot of AOE DPS than - you dead Funny option but some times even kill some body. Build was not bad in 1 on 1 the same time. Not the best but really fun to play.

Ikr, i use knight slayer, sergeant, or deadly strike combination. Btw i think that Deadly Strike + Sergeant is better with Voidmantle than with Oakensoul

I do not like Okensoul and all mythics. I personally like monster helmets

)) So now i play Zaan on HA build. And buff crit with Psijic before fight (not rebuffing it).

But on other builds i use Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet

Like this one - because it gives crit power buff and DPS. Do not like fighters guild skill for buff )

tixiyweter · September 4

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds

Not only HA

AdonisJorge · September 4

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7AEeRTGhwA&t=9230s

A video of people doing the job on one bar HA build

Ei8htba11 · September 4

"tixiyweter wrote:

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

Did it with my guild using a 1 bar build. Didn't die. Guild has a good 'run what you brung' attitude, specific mechanics are discussed before the encounter and then we go.. it's amazing what actual communication about what to expect and positioning will do, regardless of build.

Also..

"tixiyweter wrote:

I do and everyone else who plays two bar builds. One bar builds are easier in every respect, and therefore should NEVER be as strong as two bar builds. You want easy mode, fine, but there should be a cost.

There IS a cost, fewer skills and utility. Mechanics don't get easier if you're using one bar or two. I enjoy playing both my one bar builds and two bar builds, I don't think anyone should be excluded based on the number of buttons they press in game :P

Do the content, have fun, that's a win

kafedristoran · September 4

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

Hello.

We need your help. With the latest rework of the Lightning Staff, we lost the ability to properly damage large groups of targets.
Please restore the passive. Our build was built on it, without it, we're just wasting our time heavy-attacking.

For example, to kill a bunch of mobs in Craglorn (while gathering resources), we used to use 1-2 heavy attacks before nerf.
A DK or Arcanist also kills mobs in one breath or beam.

Now, to kill a bunch of three mobs, we need to use 3-6 heavy attacks (damaging one mob at a time). Our damage against AoE mobs has dropped threefold!
This is a huge nerf to our builds, especially considering we don't have a lot of damage, and that was the key to our builds—good AoE damage.
Now it's gone, and we're extremely sad because our builds are completely broken.
It's like heavy attacking in random sets—the result is almost the same.
We loved our builds, we played them all this time - and they were the best the game could give to us.

This latest explosive heavy attack is extremely inconvenient - we don't like it. It ia extremly uncomfortable to play now.

We played like this for an entire patch, and many got upset and quit the game. Those who remained are now writing to you asking you to save our builds and fix the Lightning Staff passive to what it was before the rework.
(So that all Lightning Staff HA is AoE).

We're not asking for tons of damage, we're just asking for a return of what was unfairly taken from us.
DK and Arcanist have a similar skill, it's not an imbalance—after all, we dealt this damage with a heavy attack, we were good at AoE damage. Now we're bad at everything.
Our builds don't work in PvP (the sets and skills were disabled in PvP, even though we enjoyed playing PvP, it's a shame such an update was made).

Also, Lightning Staff heavy attacks used to tick 4 times instead of 3 before some patch, and we lost some damage from this too. This was compensated by increasing Empower's strength.
But our damage output remained roughly the same as always. We do not make 200k DPS in single target as some builds did.
Our sets are outdated. I'd like to see them reworked so they all deal damage on par with the Sergeant's set, because it turns out they're all useless since there's a Sergeant, and you just always choose him.
I'd like the numbers on the other sets to be adjusted to match him, so we have a choice of what to wear.

If we're completely cut off from PvP, please at least let us play PvE normally, because it's incredibly unfair. We created these builds for ourselves, and we enjoyed playing them.
We don't want to play like everyone else, using light attacks - we don't like that kind of gameplay.
The game has introduced long-casting skills—an alternative to HA—but we still want to play heavy attacks! And we had that opportunity, please don't take it away!

So please give us back our AoE damage, bring back the Lightning Staff's AoE passive. We were the only ones using it, so why was our builds subjected to such unfounded hate?
We want fairness, and if there are new builds with huge AoE damage and less single-target damage, we want to occupy our niche in it, on par with other AoE builds. Don't deprive us of this opportunity we've had since the very beginning of the game.
We do very little single-target damage, and AoE damage is all we have left. Don't take that away either.

Thank you.

I haven’t played Heavy Attack builds in the past, but I don’t think they’re weak today. Maybe veterans see things differently, but as a new player I’ve been using an HA build recently—even in PvP on my Sorcerer—and I’ve had a lot of fun. It might not be meta, but I can still grab some kills and be annoying. Would I like more damage? Sure. But I don’t think it feels weak right now.

HA sets do not work in PVP now. Only sergant and knight slayer still remain

So it was quite time ago you make it ) I love HA PVP too. It was not win condition but you can do a lot of AOE DPS than - you dead Funny option but some times even kill some body. Build was not bad in 1 on 1 the same time. Not the best but really fun to play.

Ikr, i use knight slayer, sergeant, or deadly strike combination. Btw i think that Deadly Strike + Sergeant is better with Voidmantle than with Oakensoul

I do not like Okensoul and all mythics. I personally like monster helmets )) So now i play Zaan on HA build. And buff crit with Psijic before fight (not rebuffing it).

But on other builds i use Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet

Like this one - because it gives crit power buff and DPS. Do not like fighters guild skill for buff )

So basically you are using extremely casual build and whining here that HA builds are dying?

Renato90085 · September 5

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

Ishtarknows · September 5

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

Valkanos · September 5

>> Xynode Website <<
Full video -> Always a winner!

https://youtu.be/UmkfBGfz1CY

tixiyweter · September 5

kafedristoran wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

Hello.

We need your help. With the latest rework of the Lightning Staff, we lost the ability to properly damage large groups of targets.
Please restore the passive. Our build was built on it, without it, we're just wasting our time heavy-attacking.

For example, to kill a bunch of mobs in Craglorn (while gathering resources), we used to use 1-2 heavy attacks before nerf.
A DK or Arcanist also kills mobs in one breath or beam.

Now, to kill a bunch of three mobs, we need to use 3-6 heavy attacks (damaging one mob at a time). Our damage against AoE mobs has dropped threefold!
This is a huge nerf to our builds, especially considering we don't have a lot of damage, and that was the key to our builds—good AoE damage.
Now it's gone, and we're extremely sad because our builds are completely broken.
It's like heavy attacking in random sets—the result is almost the same.
We loved our builds, we played them all this time - and they were the best the game could give to us.

This latest explosive heavy attack is extremely inconvenient - we don't like it. It ia extremly uncomfortable to play now.

We played like this for an entire patch, and many got upset and quit the game. Those who remained are now writing to you asking you to save our builds and fix the Lightning Staff passive to what it was before the rework.
(So that all Lightning Staff HA is AoE).

We're not asking for tons of damage, we're just asking for a return of what was unfairly taken from us.
DK and Arcanist have a similar skill, it's not an imbalance—after all, we dealt this damage with a heavy attack, we were good at AoE damage. Now we're bad at everything.
Our builds don't work in PvP (the sets and skills were disabled in PvP, even though we enjoyed playing PvP, it's a shame such an update was made).

Also, Lightning Staff heavy attacks used to tick 4 times instead of 3 before some patch, and we lost some damage from this too. This was compensated by increasing Empower's strength.
But our damage output remained roughly the same as always. We do not make 200k DPS in single target as some builds did.
Our sets are outdated. I'd like to see them reworked so they all deal damage on par with the Sergeant's set, because it turns out they're all useless since there's a Sergeant, and you just always choose him.
I'd like the numbers on the other sets to be adjusted to match him, so we have a choice of what to wear.

If we're completely cut off from PvP, please at least let us play PvE normally, because it's incredibly unfair. We created these builds for ourselves, and we enjoyed playing them.
We don't want to play like everyone else, using light attacks - we don't like that kind of gameplay.
The game has introduced long-casting skills—an alternative to HA—but we still want to play heavy attacks! And we had that opportunity, please don't take it away!

So please give us back our AoE damage, bring back the Lightning Staff's AoE passive. We were the only ones using it, so why was our builds subjected to such unfounded hate?
We want fairness, and if there are new builds with huge AoE damage and less single-target damage, we want to occupy our niche in it, on par with other AoE builds. Don't deprive us of this opportunity we've had since the very beginning of the game.
We do very little single-target damage, and AoE damage is all we have left. Don't take that away either.

Thank you.

I haven’t played Heavy Attack builds in the past, but I don’t think they’re weak today. Maybe veterans see things differently, but as a new player I’ve been using an HA build recently—even in PvP on my Sorcerer—and I’ve had a lot of fun. It might not be meta, but I can still grab some kills and be annoying. Would I like more damage? Sure. But I don’t think it feels weak right now.

HA sets do not work in PVP now. Only sergant and knight slayer still remain

So it was quite time ago you make it ) I love HA PVP too. It was not win condition but you can do a lot of AOE DPS than - you dead Funny option but some times even kill some body. Build was not bad in 1 on 1 the same time. Not the best but really fun to play.

Ikr, i use knight slayer, sergeant, or deadly strike combination. Btw i think that Deadly Strike + Sergeant is better with Voidmantle than with Oakensoul

I do not like Okensoul and all mythics. I personally like monster helmets )) So now i play Zaan on HA build. And buff crit with Psijic before fight (not rebuffing it).

But on other builds i use Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet

Like this one - because it gives crit power buff and DPS. Do not like fighters guild skill for buff )

So basically you are using extremely casual build and whining here that HA builds are dying?

I have a lot of builds. Starting from tank in Leeching Plate and Cyrodiil crest stoping on some HA long breath DK.

HA builds are my favorite.

And yes - wuth this change they are dying.

I personally do not like play any no HA build. Exept tanks. Tanks are ok too. In Leeching Plate and Cyrodiil crest

Some times i even buff party damage with some thing like war machint and Turning Tide - but like sets like Leeching Plate and Cyrodiil crest more

Fat tank - nothing can kill me

Or really some thing can but let's not talk about it

tixiyweter · September 5

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

So they skip that ? I did not understand how the pass by video. Well they are really lazy - do not even make swap mechanics.

Well - what can I say - ZOS really need to 2 bars HA builds more than one bar

Too lazy game play is not right too

To make heals swap panels

Nice avoiding of the mechanic lol

Valkanos · September 5

Maybe some players are actually okay with that?
Maybe some players just want to complete the content?
Or maybe some players are simply happy to help others?

Ahhh, never mind. Being toxic is way better in this game...
And after disbanding because the group can’t complete the content, it also gives them a reason to talk about the HA\1bar players who try to join them. Right?

Renato90085 · September 5

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

Personally, I wouldn't do that in any pug.
but yes..because oakensoul Gryphon Heart core is work like this...?
if you are run oaken in vcr with rele(swap bar)mech,you just shifting the pressure onto the other players.
but if you try any hard content..the work most is on sup role,any skip mech alway mean healer/tank have more work should do,
like vrg oax hm skip 3~4 mini,the healer need kite2 boss mech/heal group in dmg circle stack/taunt and pull sec mini leave group ,and sprint to boss& stop boss charge move
or VLC twin hm skip swap room need tank/healer parse traveling knife buffs and healer taunt 3 mobs pull to group and high hps check
and dps still like parse trial dummy,not any pressure

zammo · September 5

Heavy attack builds are way to rewarding for the effort required. I said what I said.

tixiyweter · September 5

Renato90085 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

Personally, I wouldn't do that in any pug.
but yes..because oakensoul Gryphon Heart core is work like this...?
if you are run oaken in vcr with rele(swap bar)mech,you just shifting the pressure onto the other players.
but if you try any hard content..the work most is on sup role,any skip mech alway mean healer/tank have more work should do,
like vrg oax hm skip 3~4 mini,the healer need kite2 boss mech/heal group in dmg circle stack/taunt and pull sec mini leave group ,and sprint to boss& stop boss charge move
or VLC twin hm skip swap room need tank/healer parse traveling knife buffs and healer taunt 3 mobs pull to group and high hps check
and dps still like parse trial dummy,not any pressure

1 bar HA builds really do nod need any buff - the same time 2 bar HA builds need more love.

Sorcs are to good in HA damage - all classes need to be the same - it was DK build before becouse only DK had buff on HA.

Now it shift to sorc DPS. It would be good if any class can wear HA build. And have the same DPS. To not make other classes get nerfs becouse only 1 class do good DPS as example.

It is harder to get good DPS on HA on DK as example. Sorc is more easy.

AdonisJorge · September 5

I agreed that HA could be some QOL buffs but i do not think it is a weak build, seriously you can do Vet HM Trials with it and even have some fun if you are not too competitive on PVP

Frayton · September 5

Soarora wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I know a guildee that has specialised in 1 bar builds, and does very well indeed; their 1 bar warden was particularly effective.

Have played 1 bar sorc, and 2 bar arcanist, and I disagree with a poster here that the arc is more ‘complicated’ to play. It really is not.

I don’t understand the 1 bar hatred. Anything that enables players to access parts of the game that previously were very ‘gatekept’ is good.

There are complaints here about the lack of players doing trials - well what do you expect if there are people preventing others from joining, rather than encouraging? Trial leads that ask for unrealistic top tier damage based on what they have seen on a stream are not helpful.

1 bars gave some players a chance to join, and do decent damage. So what is the issue?

I am genuinely curious, if anyone cares to enlighten me, what the skill curve of playing a 1-bar or HA build is. Like I said, I have not played such a build— my experience with 1-bar is limited to an only-jabs build, werewolf, and leveling in Skyreach. I know from personal experience (of mid-top parsing in content and attempting to be good at parsing on the dummy. Key word is attempting, I always fail to reach the peak of damage.) that arcanist has the potential to be more complicated than it’s been portrayed as on this thread. Reducing arcanist to “pressing two buttons” doesn’t make for a GOOD arcanist. I didn’t even mention builds specific for trash and burning, which HA builds cannot do since they have to use HA-boosting sets.

In return, I will answer the trial question. Midgame is said to have died long ago. There are certainly still guilds who do midgame, but I suppose it is less prevalent. What this means is less people willing to prog with low dps and low skill players (a stereotype of HA builds), proportionally more people want to get an easy, clean clear. It’s a video game, no one’s being paid to teach people, so it is an unrealistic expectation for people to suffer in a prog they do not want for a stranger.

The stereotype is based in experience: HA players getting very defensive and refusing to change anything about their build, lacking skill (such as standing behind the healer even when told to stand in front of the healer), and lacking damage (whether due to the state of the build or because the wielder has edited the standard build to be worse). The tension on the forums about HA and oakensoul only further this problem, but I also recognize my part in that as well. Of course, people know stereotypes do not apply to everyone… but between two strangers, would they pick the HA player? Perhaps not. I don’t know how the stereotype problem gets resolved but first step is in recognizing it and second step is in understanding why it exists.

Yeah, while I agree with OP, I can't take the rest of the thread seriously after reading other replies that are hijacking this thread to cry about their own grievances. The fact that some think 2 bar Arc builds are the same as a 1 bar HA build floors me. If all you do is flail and beam and never press anything else on your bars, then sure, it's the same, but you're going to be pulling much lower damage and drag down any group you're in.

Another thing that stands out is the utter lack of taking the initiative and responsibility for yourself and your playstyle by refusing to form your own groups where you can set the rules, but I guess it's easier to cry gatekeeping and play the victim of those who actually do care enough about how they want to play then make their own groups.

There is no gatekeeping by others in ESO beyond the one you put on yourself because anyone can access anything.

Frayton · September 5

mocap wrote: »

Ulfsild + Pulsar combo easily kills a regular pack of 32k mobs.

HA is at good spot atm. Have pure NB with stats:
42k+ HP
30k resistances + major evasion
17k pen
63k+ DPS 3m parse (rotation: Surprise + HA + HA, repeate)
6k HPS and 16k burst (crit)
Infinite mag and stam sustain (no potions)

It's a mirracle ZOS didn't nerf it yet.

Well done for thinking outside the box and finding a solution.

ceruulean · September 5

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

You can use Rhakkat Voidnantle and still play a HA build, just barswap when you get the mechanic.

Anyway truth is HA and 1-bar builds are competing for parse DPS slots in endgame and most leaders are lacking support DPS who are flexible, not parse DPS and not HA builds which can only run 1-3 selfish sets.

tixiyweter · September 5

I have about 160 k solo DPS (158.798) on LA 1 bar build (easy rotation), but i want to play HA even so.
May be it will be nerfed next patch (did not read patch nouts).

HA is more comfortable gameplay. It is build you really want to play in - not this stupid builds that you need span F1 and LA.

But I have may be 110 k dps on 2 bar rotation. (Not as 1 bar build !!!)
It is really bad for the build.

Sorcs have more - but I want to play as DK so get some pain on it.

DK 2 panel - HA builds need more love. And our AOE damage back =(

Frayton · September 5

ceruulean wrote: »

Anyway truth is HA and 1-bar builds are competing for parse DPS slots in endgame and most leaders are lacking support DPS who are flexible, not parse DPS and not HA builds which can only run 1-3 selfish sets.

This needs more emphasis.

It's more than just damage that makes HA users less likely to get a raid spot. HA builds are inherently selfish and not flexible. They take everything from a group and give little to nothing in return. To clarify, in endgame jargon, saying a build is selfish isn't about someone's personality and isn't used to disparage anyone. It's just means the build only benefits the wearer and not the group.

You have to customize a raid for HA builds if you want your raid to be effective, or you have to just not care about the extra pressure on you especially as a tank or healer. It's fine if you want to do that, you do you, but someone who doesn't want that extra pressure on them isn't a gatekeeper as some here like to believe. They're just being real with the situation and their own limits.

If any changes are made to HA builds, I think the best would be to make them less selfish and more group oriented. As it is, HA, especially Oakensoul, seems like it was meant for solo play.

DenverRalphy · September 5

Frayton wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Anyway truth is HA and 1-bar builds are competing for parse DPS slots in endgame and most leaders are lacking support DPS who are flexible, not parse DPS and not HA builds which can only run 1-3 selfish sets.

This needs more emphasis.

It's more than just damage that makes HA users less likely to get a raid spot. HA builds are inherently selfish and not flexible. They take everything from a group and give little to nothing in return. To clarify, in endgame jargon, saying a build is selfish isn't about someone's personality and isn't used to disparage anyone. It's just means the build only benefits the wearer and not the group.

+1 QFE

Though not so much HA builds per se, but moreso One Bar builds. They're light on throwing out synergies, and little to no room left on the skillbar for monster debuffs and ally buffs that increase the group/raid's overall dps, survivability, performance, etc..

There are many situations where I'd sooner take a 2bar Zen build who's dps may well be lower than a one-bar HA build, but the entire group is getting a DPS buff. The overall group benefit outweighs the narrower focus of the one bar build.

Ishtarknows · September 5

Renato90085 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

Personally, I wouldn't do that in any pug.
but yes..because oakensoul Gryphon Heart core is work like this...?
if you are run oaken in vcr with rele(swap bar)mech,you just shifting the pressure onto the other players.
but if you try any hard content..the work most is on sup role,any skip mech alway mean healer/tank have more work should do,
like vrg oax hm skip 3~4 mini,the healer need kite2 boss mech/heal group in dmg circle stack/taunt and pull sec mini leave group ,and sprint to boss& stop boss charge move
or VLC twin hm skip swap room need tank/healer parse traveling knife buffs and healer taunt 3 mobs pull to group and high hps check
and dps still like parse trial dummy,not any pressure

Yes that's right supports already do lots of extra things that DDs don't have to do. My point was that the only way for Oakenbuilds to achieve VCR+3 is to burden the supports even more. Is that ok? People say that HA builds can do any content, but really? If you had 8 oaken DDs could you really get VRG HM done? Xalvakka's DPS check is pretty harsh.

tixiyweter · September 5

Frayton wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Anyway truth is HA and 1-bar builds are competing for parse DPS slots in endgame and most leaders are lacking support DPS who are flexible, not parse DPS and not HA builds which can only run 1-3 selfish sets.

This needs more emphasis.

It's more than just damage that makes HA users less likely to get a raid spot. HA builds are inherently selfish and not flexible. They take everything from a group and give little to nothing in return. To clarify, in endgame jargon, saying a build is selfish isn't about someone's personality and isn't used to disparage anyone. It's just means the build only benefits the wearer and not the group.

You have to customize a raid for HA builds if you want your raid to be effective, or you have to just not care about the extra pressure on you especially as a tank or healer. It's fine if you want to do that, you do you, but someone who doesn't want that extra pressure on them isn't a gatekeeper as some here like to believe. They're just being real with the situation and their own limits.

If any changes are made to HA builds, I think the best would be to make them less selfish and more group oriented. As it is, HA, especially Oakensoul, seems like it was meant for solo play.

To add buffs to current HA sets is good Idea, but with out AOE dps - builds do not normally play.

You can easely get solo target 160 k + DPS on werewolf, or get 100k DPS on HA.
It was normal when HA do a lot of AOE DPS than you can at least say - well - i DO more AOE damage.

Now you do not make normal AOE and do not make normal solo DPS.

So what support can we even talk.

If sets like Opportunist get buff like aether has - it would be playable.

If other sets get buffs in adition to their HA damage - it would be good for paty.

You at least can make own HA group than and play like AOE DPS annihilator gun and hope get enough time to kill boss on harder achivments after that. With out AOE damage - you have not got even a chance.

And it is not that i ask for buff - it was nerfed, I ask for restoration of justice !

The same time it would be good if 2 panel HA build get some good buff, now oakensol HA build do near the same DPS as 2 panels. May be give empower to oakensol was to much buff for it.

Vaqual · September 5

I skipped some of the thread, so this might be redundant. But the main thing I'd say is that the cleave on the Lightning Destro channelled damage has been removed on purpose, because it was too much scalable, resource-free damage. HA builds have also not per se fallen behind much, it is rather that some subclassing combinations, reworked classes, and classes with good masteries have pulled ahead. There is still a good bunch of builds that are performing in the same range of the spectrum.

So I'd ask:

-What builds are we specifically talking about?

-What are you weaving between heavies? Which sets are you using to achieve good AoE? Are we keeping in mind that several classes have to specifically commit to dedicated AoE setups?

-What is the exact expectation? With what kind of setup should it compare? What alternatives would be up for consideration? Would possible changes be fair for other weapon types or other staves?

My personal opinion is that the specific change to Lightning Destro channels should not be reverted. It think Lightning Destro should not be a unique solution or even mandatory for this play style. I would rather imagine a weapon agnostic approach. This should come at a certain opportunity cost, e.g. a 5-piece bonus or something comparable, like with any other commitment to increase AoE beyond in respect to scaling and returned value.

tixiyweter · September 5

Vaqual wrote: »

I skipped some of the thread, so this might be redundant. But the main thing I'd say is that the cleave on the Lightning Destro channelled damage has been removed on purpose, because it was too much scalable, resource-free damage. HA builds have also not per se fallen behind much, it is rather that some subclassing combinations, reworked classes, and classes with good masteries have pulled ahead. There is still a good bunch of builds that are performing in the same range of the spectrum.

So I'd ask:

-What builds are we specifically talking about?

-What are you weaving between heavies? Which sets are you using to achieve good AoE? Are we keeping in mind that several classes have to specifically commit to dedicated AoE setups?

-What is the exact expectation? With what kind of setup should it compare? What alternatives would be up for consideration? Would possible changes be fair for other weapon types or other staves?

My personal opinion is that the specific change to Lightning Destro channels should not be reverted. It think Lightning Destro should not be a unique solution or even mandatory for this play style. I would rather imagine a weapon agnostic approach. This should come at a certain opportunity cost, e.g. a 5-piece bonus or something comparable, like with any other commitment to increase AoE beyond in respect to scaling and returned value.

All HA builds lose AOE DPS. I personally play DK. Any HA build. I have all HA sets in the game in gold excluding may be undaunted underware (because main build was on undaunted infiltrator before sergant comes to the game).

We have :
"Tri Focus IIWith Destruction Staff Equipped Fully-charged Inferno Staff Heavy Attacks deal an additional 8180 Flame Damage over 20 seconds. Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. Fully-charged Ice Staff Heavy Attacks grant you a damage shield that absorbs 6600 damage. This effect scales off your Max Health. While an Ice Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina."

<== Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. ==>

So they remake only last hit of lightning staff HA do damage. It is very uncomfortable change - because on big mobs you lose 2/3 of your DPS from it (it hits 3 times) - and on small mobs they die faster than you do last hit - so you do not really do any AOE DPS.

Renato90085 · 5:29AM

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

What to do if boss gives you debuff that you need swap a panel ? How do it work with Oakensoul ?

So in such condition - party would not be happy to have any 1 bar builds Not only HA

the crhm swap bar mech only choose 5 player(2bar priority),so if 5 2 bar player not dead/fail in mech ,you never got this mech
so oaken GH is 5 sup role(3tank 2healer ) got pain mode and 7 dd is easy mode

So you're putting the onus of the barswap mechanic on the supports who are already doing a more difficult job? Right, thanks.

Personally, I wouldn't do that in any pug.
but yes..because oakensoul Gryphon Heart core is work like this...?
if you are run oaken in vcr with rele(swap bar)mech,you just shifting the pressure onto the other players.
but if you try any hard content..the work most is on sup role,any skip mech alway mean healer/tank have more work should do,
like vrg oax hm skip 3~4 mini,the healer need kite2 boss mech/heal group in dmg circle stack/taunt and pull sec mini leave group ,and sprint to boss& stop boss charge move
or VLC twin hm skip swap room need tank/healer parse traveling knife buffs and healer taunt 3 mobs pull to group and high hps check
and dps still like parse trial dummy,not any pressure

Yes that's right supports already do lots of extra things that DDs don't have to do. My point was that the only way for Oakenbuilds to achieve VCR+3 is to burden the supports even more. Is that ok? People say that HA builds can do any content, but really? If you had 8 oaken DDs could you really get VRG HM done? Xalvakka's DPS check is pretty harsh.

yes...it possible,but problem is sup role must is top tier player and got pain
there post only care his dps,but your dps is from other player buff/debuff/other dps output/GCD...etc
i know few years ago have oaken PB,but there sup role need run light armor tank boss,because no sup dd , all work is tank/healer work
now oaken lost aoe cleave,but st dps more high i think only problem(Xalvakka dps check)is easy too,but how oaken player attract top player join they GF run as sup role?

CatalinaWineMixer2 · 6:59AM

The problem is, destro staff cleave was replaced with Arcanist. There either shouldn't be ranged cleave at all OR every Class should be able to attain ranged cleave. This is part of the problem we had with the Acanists being everywhere for over a year. They shouldn't be able to do this with an aoe beam, or everyone should. That is, without being an Arcanist

Valkanos · 7:51AM

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

The problem is, destro staff cleave was replaced with Arcanist. There either shouldn't be ranged cleave at all OR every Class should be able to attain ranged cleave. This is part of the problem we had with the Acanists being everywhere for over a year. They shouldn't be able to do this with an aoe beam, or everyone should. That is, without being an Arcanist

Without any question. Nerfing HA and Lightning Staff was nothing more than a way to help sell Arcanist. ZoS nerfed one playstyle, then sold us another that was 100% more powerful (Arcanist).
I completely agree with you. It makes no sense to have Arcanist cleave like no other class, while at the same time ZoS nerfs HA.
So yes, all classes should be able to cleave in the same way, or Arcanist really needs a very, very big nerf to its beam.

tixiyweter · 7:55AM

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

The problem is, destro staff cleave was replaced with Arcanist. There either shouldn't be ranged cleave at all OR every Class should be able to attain ranged cleave. This is part of the problem we had with the Acanists being everywhere for over a year. They shouldn't be able to do this with an aoe beam, or everyone should. That is, without being an Arcanist

Just to show difference in cleave from HA long brerath / HA / Werwolf on 6 targets - can not check it for arcanist because i do not play one.

Every one can do HA build and have cleave before - no we can not.

Every one can get werwolw and do AOE 40k DPS. (On only 1 button)

Now HA players can not.

The same time we do not have near 170k DPS on 1 panel ! As werwolf has. (I check my own DPS, top parses have 190-200k).

Test only 1 button build because in other situarions difference would be the same value.

So 1 button builds ! Who would win ? Werwolf dooes.

Do not know about arcanist.

Vaqual · 9:14AM

tixiyweter wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I skipped some of the thread, so this might be redundant. But the main thing I'd say is that the cleave on the Lightning Destro channelled damage has been removed on purpose, because it was too much scalable, resource-free damage. HA builds have also not per se fallen behind much, it is rather that some subclassing combinations, reworked classes, and classes with good masteries have pulled ahead. There is still a good bunch of builds that are performing in the same range of the spectrum.

So I'd ask:

-What builds are we specifically talking about?

-What are you weaving between heavies? Which sets are you using to achieve good AoE? Are we keeping in mind that several classes have to specifically commit to dedicated AoE setups?

-What is the exact expectation? With what kind of setup should it compare? What alternatives would be up for consideration? Would possible changes be fair for other weapon types or other staves?

My personal opinion is that the specific change to Lightning Destro channels should not be reverted. It think Lightning Destro should not be a unique solution or even mandatory for this play style. I would rather imagine a weapon agnostic approach. This should come at a certain opportunity cost, e.g. a 5-piece bonus or something comparable, like with any other commitment to increase AoE beyond in respect to scaling and returned value.

All HA builds lose AOE DPS. I personally play DK. Any HA build. I have all HA sets in the game in gold excluding may be undaunted underware (because main build was on undaunted infiltrator before sergant comes to the game).

We have :
"Tri Focus IIWith Destruction Staff Equipped Fully-charged Inferno Staff Heavy Attacks deal an additional 8180 Flame Damage over 20 seconds. Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. Fully-charged Ice Staff Heavy Attacks grant you a damage shield that absorbs 6600 damage. This effect scales off your Max Health. While an Ice Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina."

<== Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. ==>

So they remake only last hit of lightning staff HA do damage. It is very uncomfortable change - because on big mobs you lose 2/3 of your DPS from it (it hits 3 times) - and on small mobs they die faster than you do last hit - so you do not really do any AOE DPS.

I am aware of that part. I meant to see more details about your efforts to do AoE, e.g., by weaving an AoE spammable instead of a single target spammable, utilizing an AoE scaling set for certain pulls, etc.

You need to go deeper into the details. A blanket buff to AoE is simply going to cause other issues. I think I spelled it out in sufficient detail previously, so I am not going to repeat the same. Maybe refer again to my post above.