madmufffin wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

.

madmufffin wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

yes please if beam is so brainless why does everyone jump onto it when the going is good ? buff uup arcanist see how many wan to play other roles haha ? the brainless kind ?

That's literally why? Why would you not want to play the class that takes half the number of inputs to provide a comparable output when that's an option? Arcanist is barely above oaken from an effort perspective.

It is brainless. I’m glad it made some content accessible for some people, but that one skill should not be the defining and overshadowing characteristic of the class. In PvP it’s a terrible skill. Tentacular Dread actually does offer the burst potential, but the rest of the kit drags the class down as a whole.

Fatecarvers prominence, or by some accounts former prominence in the pve space, had allowed this class to gather dust as a result even after sustaining substantial nerfs to its survivability.

This post is PvP context. I don’t care for the beam in PvP, it’s seldom viable. Latency and movement speed will always make it unreliable and there is no fixing that unless the skill was reworked altogether, which I don’t want - tentacular dread is fine as a burst/semispam substitute.

The class, outside of beam in pve, needs buffs.

Oh 100%. Arcanist is the best thing to ever happen to PVE. It made the endgame population vastly larger and most accessible, which is good for the game. I think the single target setup with runeblades and tentacular need to be buffed by substantial margins so that the class can be competitive with others as a single target cpm class as well as being usable in PVP.

I got the kill 20 arcanists quest in Cyro the other day and just instantly abandoned it because the class is so bad that I don't think there's 20 arcanists total in GH.

i think subclassing set that standard not arc i never met 2 arcs that play the same way myself in pve

Arc had like 2 years of outright dominance before subclassing even existed. Subclassing, if anything, was hugely detrimental to end game PVE. Arc was actually a good thing for the game.

not over my other 8 chars it did not lol

i hate this not being able to edit thing lol, not sspamming but i dont come forum demanding change everytime my tank cannot complete a dungeon or dies with a pug group

I'd like both morphs of tentacles to get a bigger overall radius, it misses too much due to positional desyncs.
The sustain issue for arcanist comes from the fact that the class has a very acfive defensive style with multiple expensive skills to rotate.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

My main gripe with PvP Arcanist is that multiple abilities compete for crux. Use a tentacle and I won't have a heal for my shield.. use my shield and my tentacle will be weak until I build more crux. Other classes don't have to make this kind of decision (ex: casting Wings doesn't cause a DK to lose their Seething Fury stacks). That said, I do enjoy the crux mechanic. I think every non-crux-consuming class ability should generate a crux upon activation.. maybe it could come in the form of a passive. Another possible solution could be to remove the "if you have none" stipulation from Treatise. Being able to activate my own Runebreak synergy would also be pretty sweet.

The funny part is that the shield doesn't even scale as well as let's say hardened ward, which can be sp

zammo wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

the good news is if i read the other post right i have been playing my Arcanist 300 w/s damage underpowered because the class mastery was halted for a while, hope they restart it soon after the all the grey clounds have passed over

question is this are we not getting the that 300 and how long has it been this way please ? as it has always been one of my class mastery choices

It hasn't worked since class mastery was introduced. It's only just been fixed in this PTS.

Arcanist PvE performance is irrelevant when considering it in the PvP environment. Because it's OK in one doesn't mean it should be overlooked, ignored and bypassed in the other. Arcanist needs help in PvP. For now, it doesn't need wholesale changes, just massage a few skill costs and tool tips. For whatever reason this isn't considered even when we are told efforts are being made to bring others in line?

Speaking more broadly, and it feels pointless saying it now, but the development of these sort of changes needs to be more reactive and agile. I've played this game since beta, and feel like i've always been waiting for something to improve the experience, be it features, class balancing, hardware refreshes, and now class refreshes etc. The timelines are frequently extraordinary, and ultimately not the answer.

Arcanist pvp issues don't really have anything to do with it's pve performance. Offensively, tentacle needs a larger radius, period.

Defensively, it has a very active playstyle so it needs a cost reduction on those skills.

I also wouldn't mind a proper hot skill that's not directly tied into the crux system, having to use runeward for basic survival eats into arcanist damage way too much.

Either that or make chakrams scale a bit more aggressively with stats.

zammo wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I'd like both morphs of tentacles to get a bigger overall radius, it misses too much due to positional desyncs.
The sustain issue for arcanist comes from the fact that the class has a very acfive defensive style with multiple expensive skills to rotate.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

My main gripe with PvP Arcanist is that multiple abilities compete for crux. Use a tentacle and I won't have a heal for my shield.. use my shield and my tentacle will be weak until I build more crux. Other classes don't have to make this kind of decision (ex: casting Wings doesn't cause a DK to lose their Seething Fury stacks). That said, I do enjoy the crux mechanic. I think every non-crux-consuming class ability should generate a crux upon activation.. maybe it could come in the form of a passive. Another possible solution could be to remove the "if you have none" stipulation from Treatise. Being able to activate my own Runebreak synergy would also be pretty sweet.

The funny part is that the shield doesn't even scale as well as let's say hardened ward, which can be sp

zammo wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

the good news is if i read the other post right i have been playing my Arcanist 300 w/s damage underpowered because the class mastery was halted for a while, hope they restart it soon after the all the grey clounds have passed over

question is this are we not getting the that 300 and how long has it been this way please ? as it has always been one of my class mastery choices

It hasn't worked since class mastery was introduced. It's only just been fixed in this PTS.

Arcanist PvE performance is irrelevant when considering it in the PvP environment. Because it's OK in one doesn't mean it should be overlooked, ignored and bypassed in the other. Arcanist needs help in PvP. For now, it doesn't need wholesale changes, just massage a few skill costs and tool tips. For whatever reason this isn't considered even when we are told efforts are being made to bring others in line?

Speaking more broadly, and it feels pointless saying it now, but the development of these sort of changes needs to be more reactive and agile. I've played this game since beta, and feel like i've always been waiting for something to improve the experience, be it features, class balancing, hardware refreshes, and now class refreshes etc. The timelines are frequently extraordinary, and ultimately not the answer.

Arcanist pvp issues don't really have anything to do with it's pve performance.

They don't in theory, but can you say for sure that someone hasn't looked at Arcanist PvE parses in the past, seen how competitive they were (thanks to beam and everything it brings), and immediately moved onto the next class in need ignoring all other Arcanist pitfalls that affect other areas of the game to an increased degree? I don't think either of us can say for sure, but it's possible?

Beam is a crutch for the class in PvE, but a hindrance in PvP, and that changes the context of the class in the latter environment completely.

Similar thing with The Unblinking Eye ult and morphs, great in PvE where enemy movement is limited, but it just doesn't work consistently in PvP. And then they tie a class mastery strictly to Arcanist ults...

As far as Tentacle goes, i'd be happy if Tentacular Dread only consumed crux on dealing damage.

Defensively, it's a shadow of it's former self, and sustaining without significant investment is difficult (although I accept some of this problem is me ;D). Investment into sustain that takes away from other things you need to build into and therefore cannot.

It isn’t just you, the sustain is abysmal due to the cost of the skills and the crux mechanic overly competing with itself. You need GCDs, plus probably 1-2 ability costs to get your 3 crux, to get the most of your lackluster shield or chakram. You can’t run this class in a competitive capacity without a solid investment into sustain somewhere. Which is okay, if the kit functioned better defensively. A charge up mechanic works fine for offensive abilities, but much less so for defensive ones where you need the heal when you need the heal etc.

The mechanic could be fine if they made it more rewarding. I listed a few worthy options in the OP. A HoT, or a cleanse per crux on the shield would go a long way. If base skills were useable with 0 crux, with crux just amplifying power making it worth building to three, but not more or less mandatory to get use of. Another fix is dynamic crux consumption skills, or consuming 1 at a time instead of all 3 - with some tooltip changes obviously to not make it broken. That would buff the entire kit and aid with the sustain issue.

Offensively the kit has tentacular dread and treatise/scholarship as the only truly viable parts of the kit, with dread still being essentially a skill shot and unreliable. Fatecarver not in the conversation that’s how awful it is without a complete rework. Runeblades is so weak as a spammable and only earns a slot for easy crux gen on certain builds - the only benefit being each Runeblade damage instance having a separate status proc chance but that isn’t really enough and still amounts to tickle damage compared to other spammables. Fulminating rune could be good if we can hit our own synergy, but is otherwise a mid dot and when factoring bar space is a very hard sell to earn a spot. Colorless pool/uncanny adoration work fine as hard ccs, but are easily blockable and should provide some sort of damage too since they’re both incredibly easy to counter, almost all other ccs offer some sort of damage component. Tide kings gaze and morphs, just simply walk away to counter, the offensive line ult is hard countered by movement speed.

It’s like in U44 they went “hey that shield is strong and annoying to fight against” nerfed it into the ground and then left the class more or less unchanged, minus minor beam damage adjustments, til this day.. Meanwhile power creep be creeping elsewhere the whole time. Arcanist receiving only a bug fix this patch is so wild with how poorly the kit stacks up in PvP. 300 wd isnt holding the class back and will be welcomed but will hardly make a difference.

theres a free buff to arcanist coming right there

SonOfAsura wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

SonOfAsura wrote: »

Arcanist dps are worst pve class atm. They should buff it.

That is hyperbole. Arcanist beam is the easiest and still best cleave class, so it shouldn't have the highest single target damage.

Disagree. Check esologs reef guardian dmg. I cant see any arcanist doing better cleve dmg for example.
Please don't definitively state whether a character is strong or weak based on the veteran dungeon and veteran pug trial.

Necromancer blastbones and syphon doing more cleve dmg than arcanist. Im not include corpseburster anyway

Lol what are you talking about? Arcanist is #2 in reef hm and beats other necros in the fight:

https://www.esologs.com/reports/qJ98aBfTAtbZr6w2?fight=23&type=damage-done

Arcanist #3 in Bahsei HM:

https://www.esologs.com/reports/tHn17hmCw3fgL92Z?fight=22

I'd like to see the logs where arcanist is so weak it "loses" to non-Corpseburster necro. The top necro cleave use Azureblight since necro is the highest DoT parse class in the current patch.

Arcanist is certainly better than DK/NB/sorc/plar for cleave, that's for sure. Arc is in a good state for PvE, not the best at everything but still a solid pick for DPS and support. And I know this has nothing to do with PvP but let's not cry about how "bad" the class is for PvE when it still has decent usage rates in both casual and high end groups.

why do you even care who came first in trial ? alsong as you passed it and passed it in time for what you went there for in the first place ? why even compete with each other can you not all find roles you like and classes you like best and play them getting more comfort in knowledge that you did it your way and not a scripted way ? then truly become the forums new sinatra

ceruulean wrote: »

SonOfAsura wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

SonOfAsura wrote: »

Arcanist dps are worst pve class atm. They should buff it.

That is hyperbole. Arcanist beam is the easiest and still best cleave class, so it shouldn't have the highest single target damage.

Disagree. Check esologs reef guardian dmg. I cant see any arcanist doing better cleve dmg for example.
Please don't definitively state whether a character is strong or weak based on the veteran dungeon and veteran pug trial.

Necromancer blastbones and syphon doing more cleve dmg than arcanist. Im not include corpseburster anyway

Lol what are you talking about? Arcanist is #2 in reef hm and beats other necros in the fight:

https://www.esologs.com/reports/qJ98aBfTAtbZr6w2?fight=23&type=damage-done

Arcanist #3 in Bahsei HM:

https://www.esologs.com/reports/tHn17hmCw3fgL92Z?fight=22

I'd like to see the logs where arcanist is so weak it "loses" to non-Corpseburster necro. The top necro cleave use Azureblight since necro is the highest DoT parse class in the current patch.

Arcanist is certainly better than DK/NB/sorc/plar for cleave, that's for sure. Arc is in a good state for PvE, not the best at everything but still a solid pick for DPS and support. And I know this has nothing to do with PvP but let's not cry about how "bad" the class is for PvE when it still has decent usage rates in both casual and high end groups.

The point my friend is missing is this:

As a raid lead, why would I bring a class that is mediocre at ST and only decent at AoE when I can bring a class that performs well in both ST and AoE? I’d only want that class in my raid as a support DD or a healer. But as a pure DPS? No.

You’re only using your specific log as an example. Please open the top parses for Reef Guardian and look at them yourself.

Even between the other classes(except necro and azure dds), their AoE is pretty close. The top Arcanist parse on Reef Guardian is only around 10k lower or 10k higher than the others. The maximum difference is like 15–20k.

That doesn’t even make Arcanist’s AoE so ridiculously strong that you can call it “OP AoE.”

You don’t need insane cleave damage for Bahsei HM. And DSR isn’t just about Reef Guardian either.

There’s nothing wrong with knowing the weaknesses of your main class compared to other classes and asking for buffs to address those weaknesses. It’s not a crime to want your favorite class to be competitive.