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The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.1.3 is available.
Class Mastery breakdown - tierlist for Solo PvP & Group PvP to showcase where adjustments are needed
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ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭
✭If nwe reverb cannot be used on shock damage , then it is almost worthless to Sorc. Sorc lacks sufficient damage over time (DoTs) and instant-cast spam (Crystal takes 0.8 seconds, far exceeding 100ms).
Perhaps DoTs should be added to some less popular skills, such as Shattering Spines and Daedric Tomb, or a viable spam should be added to Sorc.Edited by ZhuJiuyin on 23 August 2026 11:35"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.1 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
The issue with it hasn't really been the proc chance though, the issue is that there's no inherent synergy within Sorcs kit to get even close to the max potential of it and that hasn't changed, hence why it was made generic in the first place.
Everyone looks at it as X damage multiplied by Y times per second for Z total damage as though it will be some crazy big burst of damage every single second, but they also completely ignore that unless Y specifically is consistently more than 1, then the mastery is nothing more than a DoT tick of damage and that Sorcerers abilities outside of Armaments all have Y = 1 at best (assuming 100% proc chance).
Giving up another mastery for what essentially amounts to a potential single DoT tick of damage being added to Sorc damage abilities only is really not worth it when looking at what the other masteries do.
I think ZOS could probably go for a middle ground to bring it back up a little and count shock damage for it (since that would limit it's generic applications to at least being on theme) and/or make the class flourish count as "sorc damage".1 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Coe doesn’t proc off both active skills and core combat abilities at the same time because it has an innate cd of about a sec.Edited by Zyaneth_Bal on 24 August 2026 02:460 -
Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
The issue with it hasn't really been the proc chance though, the issue is that there's no inherent synergy within Sorcs kit to get even close to the max potential of it and that hasn't changed, hence why it was made generic in the first place.
Everyone looks at it as X damage multiplied by Y times per second for Z total damage as though it will be some crazy big burst of damage every single second, but they also completely ignore that unless Y specifically is consistently more than 1, then the mastery is nothing more than a DoT tick of damage and that Sorcerers abilities outside of Armaments all have Y = 1 at best (assuming 100% proc chance).
Giving up another mastery for what essentially amounts to a potential single DoT tick of damage being added to Sorc damage abilities only is really not worth it when looking at what the other masteries do.
I think ZOS could probably go for a middle ground to bring it back up a little and count shock damage for it (since that would limit it's generic applications to at least being on theme) and/or make the class flourish count as "sorc damage".
It would be great if cd was made per target, could help it a bit in pve, there’s no reason for it not to be.
Class flourish counting as sorc damage could be a nice addition. Or mb make static proc off shock damage too.0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
It'll probably be stronger in PVE since you're always melee and run hurricane, lightning flood, bound armaments, frags, and power overload when you can. Gonna feel real ungood in pvp for non brawler builds.0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
The issue with it hasn't really been the proc chance though, the issue is that there's no inherent synergy within Sorcs kit to get even close to the max potential of it and that hasn't changed, hence why it was made generic in the first place.
Everyone looks at it as X damage multiplied by Y times per second for Z total damage as though it will be some crazy big burst of damage every single second, but they also completely ignore that unless Y specifically is consistently more than 1, then the mastery is nothing more than a DoT tick of damage and that Sorcerers abilities outside of Armaments all have Y = 1 at best (assuming 100% proc chance).
Giving up another mastery for what essentially amounts to a potential single DoT tick of damage being added to Sorc damage abilities only is really not worth it when looking at what the other masteries do.
I think ZOS could probably go for a middle ground to bring it back up a little and count shock damage for it (since that would limit it's generic applications to at least being on theme) and/or make the class flourish count as "sorc damage".
It would be great if cd was made per target, could help it a bit in pve, there’s no reason for it not to be.
Class flourish counting as sorc damage could be a nice addition. Or mb make static proc off shock damage too.
Even in PVE, I don't think there's enough sources of damage to make per target really matter. You have at best like 4 sorc skills on your bar if you're not toggling power overload. This change is very bleh for both game modes.
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Zyaneth_Bal✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
The issue with it hasn't really been the proc chance though, the issue is that there's no inherent synergy within Sorcs kit to get even close to the max potential of it and that hasn't changed, hence why it was made generic in the first place.
Everyone looks at it as X damage multiplied by Y times per second for Z total damage as though it will be some crazy big burst of damage every single second, but they also completely ignore that unless Y specifically is consistently more than 1, then the mastery is nothing more than a DoT tick of damage and that Sorcerers abilities outside of Armaments all have Y = 1 at best (assuming 100% proc chance).
Giving up another mastery for what essentially amounts to a potential single DoT tick of damage being added to Sorc damage abilities only is really not worth it when looking at what the other masteries do.
I think ZOS could probably go for a middle ground to bring it back up a little and count shock damage for it (since that would limit it's generic applications to at least being on theme) and/or make the class flourish count as "sorc damage".
It would be great if cd was made per target, could help it a bit in pve, there’s no reason for it not to be.
Class flourish counting as sorc damage could be a nice addition. Or mb make static proc off shock damage too.
Even in PVE, I don't think there's enough sources of damage to make per target really matter. You have at best like 4 sorc skills on your bar if you're not toggling power overload. This change is very bleh for both game modes.
The only reason for this change is ww, if static procs off shock damage and mb even physical it won’t cause any issues but add more opportunities to proc it. The problem was ww’s million bleed ticks0 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.
Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.
Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason
Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.
I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.
The issue with it hasn't really been the proc chance though, the issue is that there's no inherent synergy within Sorcs kit to get even close to the max potential of it and that hasn't changed, hence why it was made generic in the first place.
Everyone looks at it as X damage multiplied by Y times per second for Z total damage as though it will be some crazy big burst of damage every single second, but they also completely ignore that unless Y specifically is consistently more than 1, then the mastery is nothing more than a DoT tick of damage and that Sorcerers abilities outside of Armaments all have Y = 1 at best (assuming 100% proc chance).
Giving up another mastery for what essentially amounts to a potential single DoT tick of damage being added to Sorc damage abilities only is really not worth it when looking at what the other masteries do.
I think ZOS could probably go for a middle ground to bring it back up a little and count shock damage for it (since that would limit it's generic applications to at least being on theme) and/or make the class flourish count as "sorc damage".
It would be great if cd was made per target, could help it a bit in pve, there’s no reason for it not to be.
Class flourish counting as sorc damage could be a nice addition. Or mb make static proc off shock damage too.
Even in PVE, I don't think there's enough sources of damage to make per target really matter. You have at best like 4 sorc skills on your bar if you're not toggling power overload. This change is very bleh for both game modes.
The only reason for this change is ww, if static procs off shock damage and mb even physical it won’t cause any issues but add more opportunities to proc it. The problem was ww’s million bleed ticks
I think WW got hit with a big enough stick to be allowed to keep bleed proc'ing reverb... or just give WW its own masteries at this point and quit making everyone else miserable to balance the wet dogs1