Class Mastery breakdown - tierlist for Solo PvP & Group PvP to showcase where adjustments are needed

evLRise · August 19

There's a pretty big discrepancy at the moment between classes, not only when it comes to their basic kit, but to class masteries as well. This thread approaches each class 1 by 1, assessing strengths and weaknesses of the class mastery system, and ranks them based on the average of the 2 best masteries each class has.

A. Solo Play

1. Nightblade

Pure NB is probably in the worst state it has been in years, maybe comparable to Greymoor release, when it was the class that benefited the least from Malacath. And the class masteries don't really do anything to help address this.

a. Nocturnal Inspiration

The Night Mistress rewards those who strike without reservation. Upgrades rank 2 of Hemorrhage to have a chance to generate 2 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 0.3 seconds and the chance is equal to your Weapon Critical chance.

Nocturnal Inspiration generates a decent amount of ult. The issue is, it doesn't necessarily provide any extra power / survival / utility. It simply allows you to do the same combo with the exact same potency, simply more often, and since NB does not have enough damage instances due to lack of DoTs / pressure to proc this reliably, it makes this mastery rather bad.

Tier: D

b. An Eye for Exploitation

Every strike, every stab, is a step towards execution. Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by up to 2000, based on your target's missing Health. Reduces your damage taken by up to 20%, based on your attacker's missing Health. Both effects are halved against targets with Battle Spirit.

NB's kit is built around burst. The class has 0 pressure tools, and often looks to 100-0 a target. As such, in 99% of times, your enemy will be full HP, granting you no benefit. You get a somewhat decent buff to damage for your follow-up abilities when you go into your burst combo, but most of this passive gives you 0 benefits in the majority of situations.

Tier: D

c. Above and Beyond

An assassin is only as good as their reputation. Increases your Critical Damage and Healing by 25%. This effect is reduced to 5% against targets with Battle Spirit. Increases your maximum Critical Damage and Healing by 30%.

The 30% crit cap is as useless as it gets in solo play, as you will never reach 155% crit damage. Therefore, this passive translates to 5% crit damage in PvP, marking it as the worst mastery in the whole game.

Tier: Below F

d. Cutthroat's Focus

This duel will be their last. For you, it's just another dance. Activating a Nightblade ability while bracing causes you to dodge attacks for 0.3 seconds. Whenever you dodge an attack, your attacker's psyche suffers, increasing their damage taken by 5% for 5 seconds, increasing to 20 seconds against monsters.

The dodge window of this passive is too small to be reliable, and it's more of a "maybe I get lucky" kind of upside. The 5% increased damage taken on dodge is a unique debuff and sadly this passive is usually taken by NB players simply because the rest of the passives are even worse.

Tier: C

e. Share the Spoils

Secrets and coin are tools as sharp as the daggers you wield. Upgrades rank 2 of Transfer to grant group members 250 Magicka and Stamina, 2 Ultimate, and doubles the Ultimate you gain when it activates.

Share the Spoils does nothing interesting for solo play, as we do not get the sustain ourselves, and the ultimate we generate is worse than Nocturnal Inspiration

Tier: F

Overall NB Tier: D

2. Necromancer

Necro is in a decent'ish spot for solo at the moment, but mostly due to Corpsebuster being a very solid set. The masteries are somewhat decent, but not necessarily great. Due to their nature, necros are mostly forced to run max HP setups, as it's the only way to benefit from the actually good masteries.

a. Nothing Wasted

As an abattoir of death, no remnants of life are wasted. Upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to also grant a stack of Nothing Wasted for 15 seconds, which increases your Max Health by 2% and Weapon and Spell Damage by 2% per stack, up to 10 times. Stacks decay three at a time instead of all at once.

Having a lot of Max HP can make a necro very tanky, and with the amount of ways to generate corpses / triggers way to use corpses on yourself / enemies, this passive is decent to sustain and keep up, especially considering the recent PTS buffs. Overall, this is one of the best necro masteries available, and allows for some interesting ways to play.

Tier: A

b. Malevolent Promise

Death's knell is a familiar song. Share it with your enemies. Upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to mark the closest non-player enemy to you with death's touch for 6 seconds, allowing you to use a corpse consuming ability on them. Consuming or replacing this effect forcibly triggers rank 1 of Corpse Consumption's Ultimate generation and triggers rank 2 of Death Gleaning. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Since this only works on non-players, it marks this mastery as an automatic F-tier for PvP.

Tier: F

c. Cycle Unending

The cycle of life and death continues: you will live, others will die. Upgrades rank 2 of Reusable Parts to grant Cycle Unending for 25 seconds, increasing the potency of your damage done by 1% for every 1% Health you have more than your target. The damage bonus caps at 25%, or 10% against players.

10% bonus damage when you're full HP and the enemy is at 0 is not really great. At most you'll get a 5% damage buff on average, if even that, making this an awful passive to slot.

Tier: F

d. Pound of Flesh

Knock upon death's door and demand your due. When you take damage you have a 10% chance to heal 1600 Health and restore 5% of your missing Stamina, up to once per second. This chance increases by 1% for every missing Health percent you have and the healing is based off your Max Health.

Combined with Nothing wasted, this passive generates good heals and keeps your stamina floating quite a bit, allowing you to block consistently. Overall a very solid pick for survival and sustain

Tier: B

e. Veil's Forfeit

Call souls back from an early grave. Only you may grant them release. While you are in combat, directly healing a target below 66% Health relinquishes them from death's clutches and allows you to use a corpse consuming ability against them within 10 seconds, up to once every second. Extends the duration of Major Vulnerability you apply by 50%.

This passive doesn't really provide much. You might get some extra corpsebuster procs on yourself, but otherwise irrelevant. The Major Vulnerability increase doesn't matter much, as you'd only gain Vulnerability when playing the Totem / Colossus combo, and if your enemy is not dead when that drops, your kill potential drops significantly afterwards.

Tier: F

Overall Necro Tier: B

3. Sorcerer

Sorc is one of the most overloaded classes when it comes to good masteries, as the vast majority of them feel great to play and have amazing returns.

a. Conservation of Energy

Spellcasting is second nature to you. A skill honed by tireless study. Upgrades rank 2 of Blood Magic to work with all abilities with a cost, excluding cost per tick abilities, and restores 239 Magicka and 239 Stamina when it activates. This effect scales off your Max Magicka and Stamina.

Conversation of Energy provides insane survival and sustain, making it one of the strongest class masteries available in-game. The amount of healing received from this mastery alone rivals vigor, and the sustain is definitely not negligible.

Tier: S

b. Font of Power

Within you is a wellspring of near unlimited power. Upgrades rank 2 of Exploitation to work with any Sorcerer ability and increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 6% for 10 seconds. The Weapon and Spell Damage increases by 1% for every 1750 Max Magicka or Stamina you have, whichever is higher.

Font of power is probably the biggest raw damage increase for sorc, ranking up considerable numbers with a decent magicka pool. Overall, a very solid mastery.

Tier: A

c. Static Reverberation

The battlefield crackles with untapped potential. Make use of it. When you deal damage, you have a 5% chance to deal 315 Shock Damage, up to once every 0.3 seconds. The chance increases by 1% for every 1% missing Health the target has. The chance is divided by 1 plus every permanent pet you have active.

Static Reverb is mostly a DPS passive, relying on a lot of damage events to proc consistently. While mostly played in WW specs, it provides good enough DPS to be worth considering.

Tier: B

d. Calculated Defense

Success is a certainty when nothing is left to chance. While beginning to use a Sorcerer ability or an ability with a cast time, you gain a damage shield for 0.5 seconds that can absorb 5280 damage. This effect is based off your Max Health. If the shield does not break, you and nearby group members gain 6% Weapon and Spell Damage for 20 seconds.

The defensive part of Calculated Defense is rather decent, and the Weapon and Spell damage increase is not bad either, but for solo play this passive feels just a tiny bit lacking to be worth considering, mostly due to other alternatives being better.

Tier: B

e. Sphere of Influence

Magicka extends your reach, a benefit to those who fight beside you. Casting a damage shield on yourself or an ally grants an additional shield that absorbs up to 2400 damage for 4 seconds and 225 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery for 12 seconds. The shield scales off the higher of your Max Health or Max Magicka, and is capped at 25% of the target's Max Health.

Sphere of Influence is pretty average for solo play, as the shields you get are not really impactful when outside a group scenario.

Tier: D

Overall Sorc tier: S

4. Dragonknight

Dragonknight is in a very decent spot in solo PvP even after the PTS nerfs, as it still has infinite sustain from Core of Flame, multiple delayed burst skills and very strong tankiness and healing. The masteries also help DK quite a bit, as they are definitely impactful.

a. Inexorable Descent

Be as the landslide. Let nothing stop you. Improves your Landslide passive to increase the potency of your damage done, healing done, and damage shield strength by 1% per stack.

A very well rounded passive for DK, providing a decent amount of everything you need.

Tier: S

b. Booming Voice

Let your voice echo across the peaks. Activating rank 2 of The Storm Voice now also grants 5 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery for every Ultimate spent for 10 seconds after a delay of 15 seconds.

While Core of Flame exists, sustain will never be a problem for DK. This passive is outright useless, and specing points into it is 100% griefing

Tier: F

c. Wildfire Embers

Fire forged within can never be extinguished. Fan the flames. When your Dragonknight damage over time effects end, you apply Wildfire Embers to the target, dealing 1565 Flame Damage over 12 seconds. This effect stacks up to 12 times and increases in damage by 25% per stack.

Wildfire Embers shines in long, attrition fights, which is exactly what DKs are good at. Paired with Pyrebrand, it will sit at the top of your logs on every single duel, making it one of the, if not, the best pressure passive in-game

Tier: S

d. Resolute Defense

You are as unyielding as a mountain. Each second you remain Bracing, you increase the amount of damage you block by 6%, up to 5 times. Blocking damage has a 20% chance to restore 500 Stamina. This effect can occur once every block cost.

Not necessarily a bad passive, due to having so much stamina that you can permablock on DK, thanks to Core of Flame. Having to stay stationary on a melee character makes this pretty unusable tho, marking it a strictly PvE passive.

Tier: F

e. Lead from the Front

Let others be swept along in the wake of your flame. Activating rank 2 of The Storm Voice grants you and group members within 28 meters of you Major Berserk and Protection for 1 second per 15 Ultimate spent, increasing damage done and reducing damage taken by 10%.

While amazing for group play, in solo play you'll at most see a 40% uptime on Major Berserk and Major Protection. Yes, both are great buffs, but other options simply provide even more utility than this.

Tier: B

Overall DK tier: S

5. Arcanist

Arcanist is in a pretty rough spot, mostly due to a lackluster basic kit, as a decent amount of abilities are simply unusable in PvP.

a. Abyssal Emergence

Dive deep into the abyss where power is yours to claim. Activating an Arcanist Ultimate immediately generates maximum Crux and grants you 666 Weapon and Spell Damage for 15 seconds.

Generating Maximum crux is overall not bad for arca, but there are very little ways to spend it, other than to shield & heal or for some buffed tentacles. Additionally, being forced to run an arcanist ultimate, which are generally not great for PvP, makes this mastery a bit lackluster. There are some niche applications for it, such as tentacles into ult into beam, but overall beam is very clunky to use in PvP, which is why this mastery is overall not that great.

Tier: C

b. Erudite's Rigor

Master the archaic and forge new runes of conflict. Upgrades Fatewoven Armor to inflict Minor Cowardice on your attacker while granting Major Vitality to you and your group for 4 seconds. You gain 1 Ultimate for every Crux you have. These effects can occur once every 2 seconds.

Major Vitality and Minor Cowardice are 2 very difficult buffs to keep up by classic standards, and this mastery provides a good chunk of defenses, making it a decent pick. Since vitality also buffs shields, it also makes beam arcanist ever so slightly more viable, as the enemies need to dish out more DPS before our beam shield breaks and we can be interrupted.

Tier: A

c. Unbound Potential

Surpass your limits in the fieldwork of battle. Upgrades rank 2 of Fated Fortune to also increase your damage done by 30%, halving against players, for the duration.

15% damage done is a decent generic DPS buff with 100% uptime. Not that big of a fan as it provides 0 defense capability compared to a % WD/SD buff like sorcerer has.

Tier: B

d. Fate Realigned

Be the hand that guides the weave of fate. Upgrades rank 2 of Implacable Outcome to generate maximum Crux, up to once every 15 seconds. After this effect triggers you gain 300 Weapon and Spell Damage for 25 seconds.

For quite a while, this passive was bugged. It was fixed in the latest PTS itteration, despite not being announced in the patch notes. Being able to generate maximum crux on demand is rather great, especially for survivability. However, the 15 second cooldown might be a bit harsh, and the 300 Weapon and Spell damage buff is pretty average. While this passive looks good on paper, it might not feel that amazing in practice.

Tier: B

e. Ink-Scribe's Verve

Illuminate body and mind with glimmering ink. While in combat, when you heal or overheal a total of 100000 Health, you generate a Crux and grant you and your group members Major Force for 10 seconds, increasing Critical Damage by 20%.

100k heal or overheal for solo every 10s is rather impossible to achieve. That doesn't mean this passive is not usable, but the uptime will be rather low.

Tier: D

Overall Arca tier: B

6. Templar

Templar is doing OK'ish in solo PvP, with a handful of somewhat decent masteires.

a. Bastion of Light

Light consecrates the ground on which you tread. Sacred Ground is now applied while you are in your own Nova and Spear Shards, and while Radial Sweep and Solar Barrage are active. While Sacred Ground is active, you heal for 1280 Health every 1 second. If you are at full Health after being healed from this effect while in combat, you also gain 2 Ultimate.

The heal you get from the passive is decent, especially with a decent enough HP pool. The passive ticks for 8% of your max HP per second - which does reward investment into max HP through stuff like triune traits on jewelry / 3-5 heavy armor pieces / HP based race / Death Dealer Fete as mythic, but due to templar's kit being very defense oriented, going for a defense class mastery will lead to lots of slatemates against tankier opponents. The ult gen looks good, but it definitely won't proc anywhere near to 100% of times, so additional shield investments might be required.

Tier: A

b. Devout Guardian

Radiant is the shield that pushes back the dark. While Sacred Ground is active, you gain a damage shield for 6 seconds, up to once every 6 seconds. The shield absorbs up to 3200 damage and provides 300 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery while active. If the shield breaks, you gain 10 Ultimate.

The shield will break instantly in most scenarios. Thus, this passive more commonly translates to 10 ult every 6s, which is a slightly better Minor Heroism for the templar alone. This can be used to "shelter" your HP once in a while in conjunction with Bastion of Light in order to get ult ticks while at max HP, but often feels like you'd really want another shield on top of this one, to once again provide a "shelter" for it so that it survives enough for the sustain to do something.

Tier: B

c. Bright Harbinger

Light's banner instills hope. You are its bearer. Upgrades rank 2 of Illuminate to also grant Bright Harbinger for the duration, which grants 300 Weapon and Spell Damage to allies and doubles for you.

This mastery is rather solid, with 600 WD/SD being a respectable number, especially in BGs so that the rest of the group can benefit from it, although a bit behind other options from other classes

Tier: B

d. Judgment's Brand

Judgement follows in the wake of your radiance. When rank 2 of Burning Light deals damage, your Templar abilities gain 1400 damage done for 3.1 seconds. This bonus is halved against players.

This mastery has fancy looking numbers up until you see the battlespirit reduction, and will limit your playstyle to Jabs, which is what the majority of templars want anyway. Overall a pretty situational pick. Due to the Battle Spirit nerfs, it doesn't shine as bright as it could. Chances are the situation won't change much after the current PTS buffs.

Tier: C

e. Steadfast Candescence

Your conviction is unwavering. Light gives no quarter. Sacred Ground now activates and refreshes itself while Bracing. Increases the amount of damage you can block by 20% while stationary.

In general refreshing Sacred Ground is not that big of a deal, making the main point of this passive a bit underwhelming and rather bad outside of block plar meme specs.

Tier: F

Overall Templar tier: B

7. Warden

Warden class masteries are one of the best in-game, with amazing values all around.

a. Tundra's Maw

Expose your enemies to unrelenting cold. Applying Chill to an enemy also applies Major Brittle for 2 seconds, increasing their Critical Damage taken by 20%.

Tundra's Maw is the one and only reliable Major Brittle source in-game. However, being forced to wear an ice staff to proc it consistently downgrades this passive to A-tier for solo play.

Tier: A

b. Wild Adaptation

The battlefield is your grove. Tend to it. Gain 333 Weapon and Spell Damage for each status effect on your target, up to a maximum of 1665..

This is the most number-loaded mastery in game, providing an insane amount of weapon and spell damage, with a rather decent to achieve condition.

Tier: S

c. Glacial Obstinance

Tap into the wellspring of permafrost's resolve. Upgrades Bond with Nature to also activate when casting Winter's Embrace abilities and to grant 15% Weapon and Spell Damage for 10 seconds if you are at full Health after the heal.

15% weapon and spell damage is not negligible. The heal on Winter's Embrace abilities feels more like a nice-to-have bonus, rather than something you explicitly care about. Overall, a decent passive.

Tier: A

d. Green-Keeper's Hide

The twisting of seasons has tempered your will. Reduce your damage taken by 3% for every status effect active on your attacker, up to a maximum of 15%.

A nice tanky pair for Wild Adaptation, granting a unique 15% damage reduction buff.

Tier: A

e. Bountiful Harvest

Share in the spoils of nature's abundance. Upgrades rank 2 of Nature's Gift to grant you and your group members Major Heroism for 3 seconds and an additional 125 Magicka and Stamina, up to once ever 2 seconds.

While amazing for any group scenario, warden doesn't benefit as much from ult spaming as other classes do, such as DK. It still remains a solid pick, as it also tries to address the sustain issues wardens have.

Tier: B

Overall Warden tier: S

Overall Solo PvP situation when it comes to class mastery strength:

- S tier: Sorc, Warden, DK
- A tier: Templar, Arcanist, Necro
- B tier:
- C tier: Nightblade

B. Group Play

1. Nightblade

For group play, Nightblade is in a slightly better spot than for solo play. It has some somewhat viable applications, but definitely not enough to compete with the strongest options. It can be played both as a DD with Nocturnal Inspiration for huge ult generation, as a Crit Damage DD with Above and Beyond, as a Healer, or as some niche utility setup.

a. Nocturnal Inspiration

The Night Mistress rewards those who strike without reservation. Upgrades rank 2 of Hemorrhage to have a chance to generate 2 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 0.3 seconds and the chance is equal to your Weapon Critical chance.

Nocturnal Inspiration can generate A LOT of ultimate, especially if you spec a little bit into it with daggers, thief mundus, and some decisive traits. The most obvious choice would be a nightblade DD, with Balorgh to benefit from the ult generation and Soul Harvest for even more ult on kill. The problem with that is, Nightblade doesn't have too many good ultimates for group play. Heal Tether is obsolete due to Arcanist providing Major Vitality from masteries. Damage Tether will count as a HoT, nerfing your own healing due to the heal cap rule, and generic options like dawnbreaker are not good enough to justify this route. Barrier is also suboptimal on a Nightblade, as it does not have ways to increase it's potency, like a DK with landslide mastery or arcanist with Curative Runeforms passives, and Destro Ult is not playable due to NB not having access to an AoE Ranged Burst Heal for group play, locking you on Restoration Staff backbar.

Tier: C

b. An Eye for Exploitation

Every strike, every stab, is a step towards execution. Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by up to 2000, based on your target's missing Health. Reduces your damage taken by up to 20%, based on your attacker's missing Health. Both effects are halved against targets with Battle Spirit.

Due to the bursty nature of group play, the less damage taken part of this mastery is rather irrelevant, as your enemies will mostly be 100% HP the majority of time, and quickly go to 0% when you go for damage. For that same reason the Increase to WD/SD is also rather unappealing, as you would like your team to leave enemies low, ideally below 50% HP before you deal damage, which is too difficult to control accurately in practice, making this passive suffer for the exact same reasons as a solo NB.

Tier: F

c. Above and Beyond

An assassin is only as good as their reputation. Increases your Critical Damage and Healing by 25%. This effect is reduced to 5% against targets with Battle Spirit. Increases your maximum Critical Damage and Healing by 30%.

Compared to solo play, achieveing the 155% crit damage cap is doable in group play, with Minor/Major Force, Minor/Major Brittle and sets like Elemental Catalyst, Farstrider, Lucent Echoes etc. However, the extra 30% crit damage needs to come from the nightblade itself through stuff like DW axes and shadow mundus ( which is already an opportunity cost ), as the group gets 0 benefit from crit damage over 125%. Even in this scenario, the NB is more of a fun to play setup, as it would still get outperformed by a subclass DD with access to Deep Fissure and Soul of Flame when it comes to raw damage output.

Tier: B

d. Cutthroat's Focus

This duel will be their last. For you, it's just another dance. Activating a Nightblade ability while bracing causes you to dodge attacks for 0.3 seconds. Whenever you dodge an attack, your attacker's psyche suffers, increasing their damage taken by 5% for 5 seconds, increasing to 20 seconds against monsters.

The dodge window of this passive is too small to be reliable, and it's more of a "maybe I get lucky" kind of upside. The 5% increased damage taken on dodge is a unique debuff, but doesn't look appealing enough to be worth slotting, especially considering the proc condition - dodging - which is rather risky to do against other groups.

Tier: D

e. Share the Spoils

Secrets and coin are tools as sharp as the daggers you wield. Upgrades rank 2 of Transfer to grant group members 250 Magicka and Stamina, 2 Ultimate, and doubles the Ultimate you gain when it activates.

Share the Spoils is an interesting group utility. It is rather tedious to use on cooldown as the CD is very small ( 4 seconds ). But assuming a 100% uptime, it translates to 125 sustain and a worse Minor Heroism for your group. There's also the possibility to play a ult gen NB with Cryptcannon and share your ult with your group, rather than using one yourself, but the downsides of this spec are that, in a small group, justifying a pureclass NB is incredibly difficult, and in a big group, the ult you share with each member gets divided even more the bigger the group is. Overall, a pretty mediocre passive.

Tier: D

Overall NB Tier: C

2. Necromancer

Necro sits in a rather weird spot in group play, where masteries don't really provide significant enough buffs to warrant a pure necro in your team, and the nice have necro skills - Colossus and Res Ult - can be outsourced through subclassing.

a. Nothing Wasted

As an abattoir of death, no remnants of life are wasted. Upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to also grant a stack of Nothing Wasted for 15 seconds, which increases your Max Health by 2% and Weapon and Spell Damage by 2% per stack, up to 10 times. Stacks decay three at a time instead of all at once.

This mastery alongside the scribing class mastery and the necro passives can allow for the highest max-health setup doable in-game. This makes pureclass necro the best shielder in-game when it comes to scribing shields, which scale off max HP. This is only doable, however, in very large groups, as in groups of 8 or smaller there's simply no space for a pure necro due to other classes and specs being way stronger and impactful. Additionally, with shields capped at 6 targets, shielding becomes way more RNG based the bigger the group is, and for groups who value consistency, having to roll a 50/50 dice to see if the one person who got focused in your 12-man was amongst the 6 people who got the shields when it mattered is not really desireable. The increase to Weapon and Spell damage does allow for pretty decent heals tho.

Tier: B

b. Malevolent Promise

Death's knell is a familiar song. Share it with your enemies. Upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to mark the closest non-player enemy to you with death's touch for 6 seconds, allowing you to use a corpse consuming ability on them. Consuming or replacing this effect forcibly triggers rank 1 of Corpse Consumption's Ultimate generation and triggers rank 2 of Death Gleaning. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Since this only works on non-players, it marks this mastery as an automatic F-tier for PvP.

Tier: F

c. Cycle Unending

The cycle of life and death continues: you will live, others will die. Upgrades rank 2 of Reusable Parts to grant Cycle Unending for 25 seconds, increasing the potency of your damage done by 1% for every 1% Health you have more than your target. The damage bonus caps at 25%, or 10% against players.

May Azura forgive me for saying this, but this is somehow even worse than Nightblade Passives. Aside from Necro being a pretty poor DD in group play, the return you get from this is beyond inconsequential.

Tier: F

d. Pound of Flesh

Knock upon death's door and demand your due. When you take damage you have a 10% chance to heal 1600 Health and restore 5% of your missing Stamina, up to once per second. This chance increases by 1% for every missing Health percent you have and the healing is based off your Max Health.

Rather decent stamina sustain return from this passive, as well as good healing for a Necro shielder since the healing scales off max HP. Despite providing 0 utility for the group, the Stamina return is usually good enough to allow a necro to run the Assault Speed Buff, taking some sustain burden away from other players.

Tier: C

e. Veil's Forfeit

Call souls back from an early grave. Only you may grant them release. While you are in combat, directly healing a target below 66% Health relinquishes them from death's clutches and allows you to use a corpse consuming ability against them within 10 seconds, up to once every second. Extends the duration of Major Vulnerability you apply by 50%.

This passive provides rather nothing of value. The Major Vulnerability duration increase is rather useless aside from some super niche bait scenario, where you commit a colossus hoping to force an enemy group to expend some resources like Barriers and Negates, thinking you're going for a big push. Having to heal someone below 66% makes this passive inconsistent, and planning around inconsistency in group play is a pretty bad idea.

Tier: F

Overall Necro Tier: C

3. Sorcerer

Sorc looks just as good in group play as it looks in solo play, not only because the amazing utility it has from it's kit, but because of how much the class masteries provide.

a. Conservation of Energy

Spellcasting is second nature to you. A skill honed by tireless study. Upgrades rank 2 of Blood Magic to work with all abilities with a cost, excluding cost per tick abilities, and restores 239 Magicka and 239 Stamina when it activates. This effect scales off your Max Magicka and Stamina.

In group play, the healing aspect of Conservation of Energy is definitely not as pronounced as in solo play. Even so, this passive eliminates most of the sustain issues you might face, marking it a good choice.

Tier: A

b. Font of Power

Within you is a wellspring of near unlimited power. Upgrades rank 2 of Exploitation to work with any Sorcerer ability and increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 6% for 10 seconds. The Weapon and Spell Damage increases by 1% for every 1750 Max Magicka or Stamina you have, whichever is higher.

Font of power is a pretty decent pick in group play as well if you choose to stack magicka, as it provides a lot of healing power through big WD/SD increase. Despite all this, this passive is rarely picked as there's another class mastery enabling an even stronger spec for Sorc in group.

Tier: D

c. Static Reverberation

The battlefield crackles with untapped potential. Make use of it. When you deal damage, you have a 5% chance to deal 315 Shock Damage, up to once every 0.3 seconds. The chance increases by 1% for every 1% missing Health the target has. The chance is divided by 1 plus every permanent pet you have active.

Static Reverb is a pretty bad passive for group play. Not only is sorc rarely played as a DD in bigger groups, but you care way more about burst than DPS, making this a suboptimal choice.

Tier: F

d. Calculated Defense

Success is a certainty when nothing is left to chance. While beginning to use a Sorcerer ability or an ability with a cast time, you gain a damage shield for 0.5 seconds that can absorb 5280 damage. This effect is based off your Max Health. If the shield does not break, you and nearby group members gain 6% Weapon and Spell Damage for 20 seconds.

The 6% weapon & spell damage buff from this passive is what makes it a viable choice for group play. In a group with lots of buffs ( PA, SPC, Minor/Major Brutality, Pearlescent ), people can reach close to 10k Weapon / Spell damage, in which case 6% translates to 600 WD/SD for the group.

Tier: A

e. Sphere of Influence

Magicka extends your reach, a benefit to those who fight beside you. Casting a damage shield on yourself or an ally grants an additional shield that absorbs up to 2400 damage for 4 seconds and 225 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery for 12 seconds. The shield scales off the higher of your Max Health or Max Magicka, and is capped at 25% of the target's Max Health.

Sphere of Influence is by far the Number #1 reason why you want a pure sorc in your group. The raw amount of survivability against pressure you get from this passive makes sorc an easy S tier even if you were to slot this as your only Class mastery and ignore the rest. Simply slotting a Banner Bearer with a shield script is enough to proc this passive so consistently, that it rivals a full shielder spamming scribing shields 24/7.

Tier: S

Overall Sorc tier: S, just from Sphere of Influence alone.

4. Dragonknight

Dragonknight is in a pretty decent spot for PvP, mostly because of one particular passive, making 1 pure DK desireable in most groups.

a. Inexorable Descent

Be as the landslide. Let nothing stop you. Improves your Landslide passive to increase the potency of your damage done, healing done, and damage shield strength by 1% per stack.

This passive is definitely nothing fancy, but it's a strong enough all rounder to be the go-to for most pure DKs. It fits every spec - shielder, healer, DD, and the numbers are very solid. It can be difficult to keep up in group play, but there are no better alternatives.

Tier: B

b. Booming Voice

Let your voice echo across the peaks. Activating rank 2 of The Storm Voice now also grants 5 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery for every Ultimate spent for 10 seconds after a delay of 15 seconds.

While Core of Flame exists, sustain will never be a problem for DK. This passive is outright useless, and specing points into it is 100% griefing your team.

Tier: F

c. Wildfire Embers

Fire forged within can never be extinguished. Fan the flames. When your Dragonknight damage over time effects end, you apply Wildfire Embers to the target, dealing 1565 Flame Damage over 12 seconds. This effect stacks up to 12 times and increases in damage by 25% per stack.

Wildfire Embers shines in long, attrition fights, which is the opposite of what group play tries to achieve, and therefore, one of the worst choices on DK for groups.

Tier: F

d. Resolute Defense

You are as unyielding as a mountain. Each second you remain Bracing, you increase the amount of damage you block by 6%, up to 5 times. Blocking damage has a 20% chance to restore 500 Stamina. This effect can occur once every block cost.

Block mitigation is overall a pretty bad stat for group play, as most of your deaths will be due to sheer pressure ( unblockable DoTs, siege, oils etc. ), or being bursted down while CC'd ( in which case, being feared makes your block mitigation useless ). This passive should never be picked for group play

Tier: F

e. Lead from the Front

Let others be swept along in the wake of your flame. Activating rank 2 of The Storm Voice grants you and group members within 28 meters of you Major Berserk and Protection for 1 second per 15 Ultimate spent, increasing damage done and reducing damage taken by 10%.

Lead from the Front is an amazing mastery. It provides the group with 2 of the most difficult buffs to obtain in-game: Major Protection and Major Berserk, being an all-round utility / defense / offense pick, and the main reason you want to have a DK in your group.

Tier: S

Overall DK tier: A

5. Arcanist

Despite being quite bad in solo play, Arcanist provides a large amount of difficult to obtain buffs through it's class masteries, making it a must have for group play.

a. Abyssal Emergence

Dive deep into the abyss where power is yours to claim. Activating an Arcanist Ultimate immediately generates maximum Crux and grants you 666 Weapon and Spell Damage for 15 seconds.

Most crux related skills are rather bad for Arcanist in group play. In general, arcanists make poor DDs for groups, and are played as either healers or shielders. As such, none of the crux consuming abilities are really worth slotting.

Tier: F

b. Erudite's Rigor

Master the archaic and forge new runes of conflict. Upgrades Fatewoven Armor to inflict Minor Cowardice on your attacker while granting Major Vitality to you and your group for 4 seconds. You gain 1 Ultimate for every Crux you have. These effects can occur once every 2 seconds.

Major Vitality and Minor Cowardice are 2 very difficult buffs to keep up by classic standards. Having this mastery provides the group with amazing utility that's easy to keep up. The extra ult gen is just the cherry on top, and this passive would still be an easy S tier even without it.

Tier: S

c. Unbound Potential

Surpass your limits in the fieldwork of battle. Upgrades rank 2 of Fated Fortune to also increase your damage done by 30%, halving against players, for the duration.

Since you rarely consume crux in group play, not only the uptime of this passive would be pretty bad, but arcanist does poorly as DD in group.

Tier: F

d. Fate Realigned

Be the hand that guides the weave of fate. Upgrades rank 2 of Implacable Outcome to generate maximum Crux, up to once every 15 seconds. After this effect triggers you gain 300 Weapon and Spell Damage for 25 seconds.

For the exact same reason as above, this passive won't see much play in groups.

Tier: F

e. Ink-Scribe's Verve

Illuminate body and mind with glimmering ink. While in combat, when you heal or overheal a total of 100000 Health, you generate a Crux and grant you and your group members Major Force for 10 seconds, increasing Critical Damage by 20%.

The main reason arcanist is played as a healer - this passive frees up the Saxhleel slot in a group, and provides close to 100% major force uptime. A simply must-have.

Tier: S

Overall Arca tier: S

6. Templar

Templar is currently not doing amazing in group play, and that includes the current PTS changes. Templar's kit is rather mediocre. Purify is unusable due to Plaguebreak, most Dawn's Wrath abilities are just bad for group play, with the exception of Nova, so proc'ing the new armor passive requires using a bad skill just for the passive benefits, and Templar overall provides little group utility other than minor recoveries. Class Masteries sit in the exact same mediocre spot as the base Templar kit.

a. Bastion of Light

Light consecrates the ground on which you tread. Sacred Ground is now applied while you are in your own Nova and Spear Shards, and while Radial Sweep and Solar Barrage are active. While Sacred Ground is active, you heal for 1280 Health every 1 second. If you are at full Health after being healed from this effect while in combat, you also gain 2 Ultimate.

Most of the abilities used to proc Sacred Ground are not used at all in group play. The heal is rather average and the ult gen pretty inconsistent. Overall this passive provides close to nothing. At the very least, having cross healing means that you will be at full health the majority of times, and the ult gen is rather consistent

Tier: D

b. Devout Guardian

Radiant is the shield that pushes back the dark. While Sacred Ground is active, you gain a damage shield for 6 seconds, up to once every 6 seconds. The shield absorbs up to 3200 damage and provides 300 Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery while active. If the shield breaks, you gain 10 Ultimate.

The shield is tiny enough to break instantly in most scenarios. Thus, this passive translates to 10 ult every 6s, which is a slightly better Minor Heroism for the templar alone. Combined with Bastion of Light, it can lead to somewhat decent Nova uptimes, although investing a pure templar for this alone feels like a pretty awful idea.

Tier: D

c. Bright Harbinger

Light's banner instills hope. You are its bearer. Upgrades rank 2 of Illuminate to also grant Bright Harbinger for the duration, which grants 300 Weapon and Spell Damage to allies and doubles for you.

This mastery is rather solid, and it's a shame that it's the only decent mastery templar has for group play. 300 WD is the equivalent of a Powerful Assault set, and 600 for the Templar itself means pretty decent heals. Easily the best pick on templar for group play.

Tier: A

d. Judgment's Brand

Judgement follows in the wake of your radiance. When rank 2 of Burning Light deals damage, your Templar abilities gain 1400 damage done for 3.1 seconds. This bonus is halved against players.

This mastery, while pretty bad in itself, even with the current PTS buffs, screams "Jabs". And Jabs is a horrible skill to use in group play, mostly due to the inability to block while casting it, making it a very bad passive for a templar in group.

Tier: F

e. Steadfast Candescence

Your conviction is unwavering. Light gives no quarter. Sacred Ground now activates and refreshes itself while Bracing. Increases the amount of damage you can block by 20% while stationary.

Sacred ground is not completely awful as a passive, as it provides 8% healing. The block mitigation however is not exactly too useful in PvP, as your deaths will be due to pressure ( DoTs, oils etc which are unblockable ), or pure burst after you get CC'd, in which case you cannot block.

Tier: F

Overall Templar tier: C

7. Warden

Warden class masteries are nothing short of amazing and easy to integrate in group play, with multiple S-tier picks.

a. Tundra's Maw

Expose your enemies to unrelenting cold. Applying Chill to an enemy also applies Major Brittle for 2 seconds, increasing their Critical Damage taken by 20%.

Tundra's Maw is the one and only reliable Major Brittle source in-game, making it insanely strong for any group due to the amount of group DPS increase you receive from this alone.

Tier: S

b. Wild Adaptation

The battlefield is your grove. Tend to it. Gain 333 Weapon and Spell Damage for each status effect on your target, up to a maximum of 1665..

While the number themselves on this passive are great, a pure warden DD won't deal near as much damage as a subclass DD in a group, especially considering the need to run frost staff for Major and Minor Brittle procs. Paired with the fact that groups rarely spec into Status effects, this makes this passive rather bad, especially considering the opportunity cost.

Tier: D

c. Glacial Obstinance

Tap into the wellspring of permafrost's resolve. Upgrades Bond with Nature to also activate when casting Winter's Embrace abilities and to grant 15% Weapon and Spell Damage for 10 seconds if you are at full Health after the heal.

15% weapon and spell damage is not negligible. The heal on Winter's Embrace abilities feels more like a nice-to-have bonus, rather than something you explicitly care about. Overall, a decent passive, but far outshined by other options

Tier: B

d. Green-Keeper's Hide

The twisting of seasons has tempered your will. Reduce your damage taken by 3% for every status effect active on your attacker, up to a maximum of 15%.

Similar to Wild Adaptation, not spec'ing into status effects as a group makes this mastery rather uncomfortable to run.

Tier: D

e. Bountiful Harvest

Share in the spoils of nature's abundance. Upgrades rank 2 of Nature's Gift to grant you and your group members Major Heroism for 3 seconds and an additional 125 Magicka and Stamina, up to once ever 2 seconds.

Major Heroism is easily one of the hardest buffs to obtain in-game. That is, unless you run a pure warden. The 125 sustain on top of it makes this passive a must have for every group scenario.

Tier: S

Overall Warden tier: S

Overall Group PvP situation when it comes to class mastery strength:

- S tier: Sorc, Warden, Arcanist
- A tier: DK
- B tier: Templar
- C tier: Necro, Nightblade

In general, most groups should run a Sorc, Warden and Arcanist, as well as a DK if possible, depending on group size, with other pure class options opening up the larger the group becomes, either as a fun to play spec, or simply when the group is big enough (10-12) to warrant some specific picks, such as Plar for 300 WD/SD and the new armor buff.

While some passives are simply not designed for this type of content, a large part of them are unplayable simply because they are too weak. Comparing the Solo & Group PvP rankings for both classes as a whole and each individual passive, you'll see that there isn't really that big of a discrepancy for a large number of them, proving that it's not necessarily about it being a situational pick, but simply a bad pick ( Necro sitting across F tier consistently, NB sitting in the C, D & F tier the vast majority of time etc. )

There are plenty of adjustments to be made to this system, and the fact that we barely saw any changes after all this time is rather disappointing, but just to name a few suggestions.

Nightblade:
Above and Beyond - Buffing the crit damage in PvP to 15% would make this an actually viable way to play nightblade as a DD in group. as it wouldn't be so far behind a subclassed DD.
Share the Spoils - Inflicting debuffs on enemies such as Magickasteal and also introducing Staminasteal as it's counterpart would make this a really nice to have passive, and very in-theme with the siphoning kit.
Cutthroat's Focus - increasing the damage taken to 8% would make it a desireable buff both for solo and group play. Adding a cooldown to the dodge effect and increasing the duration to 1s would make it an actually controllable and skillful effect, rather than just something u just do and hope it does something.
Nocturnal Inspiration - Adding an additional effect for when you use an ult, such as a WD/SD or % damage buff would make this worthwhile.

Necro:
Cycle Unending - Add the same condition to healing - more healing based on however much % HP you have more than your target, and raising the PvP cap to 15% would at least bring this passive in line with An Eye for Exploitation, since the NB one also affects healing ( Although is plain awful in itself outside of PvE ).
Veil's Forfeit - the condition and reward for this mastery is very niche and unrewarding. As a rework - on the life & death theme of Necro, AoE heals could also apply heal absorption to the enemies in that area, at 33% value, with a 5s cooldown, or scaling based on corpses consumed.

Templar:
Bastion of Light - Extend the effect to the rest of the group at half value.
Steadfast Candescence - Why do I care if Sacred Ground moves with me if i need to be stationary? Get rid of the Stationary Condition.

Arcanist:
Fate Realigned - With the nerfs to the shield, the cooldown here could easily be lower. 12s, so you have it at least once every 1 CC windows, not 1 out of 3 if the enemy back to back CCs me every 7s.
Abyssal Emergence - Being limited to an arcanist ult makes this buff rather unappealing.

RedMamba · August 19

Great post

Firstmep · August 19

Judgements brand A in pvp? Erm, excuse me.

Bastion is by far, like a mile far, the best plar mastery. The consistent healing is very helpful for a Frontline fighter and the ult gen is on par with major heroism as long as you can keep yourself topped up, which is where:

Devout Guardian comes in. I was too skeptical about this mastery at first, but it does provide notable benefits, the shields consistent and passive nature does pad your overall healing a lot and even if it breaks after 1 gcd, that's an extra ult tick from Bastion.
The recovery comes into play when you are closing the distance from fight to fight.

VinnyGambini · August 19

Firstmep wrote: »

Judgements brand A in pvp? Erm, excuse me.

Bastion is by far, like a mile far, the best plar mastery. The consistent healing is very helpful for a Frontline fighter and the ult gen is on par with major heroism as long as you can keep yourself topped up, which is where:

Devout Guardian comes in. I was too skeptical about this mastery at first, but it does provide notable benefits, the shields consistent and passive nature does pad your overall healing a lot and even if it breaks after 1 gcd, that's an extra ult tick from Bastion.
The recovery comes into play when you are closing the distance from fight to fight.

Exactly, judgements brand is definetely D tier in PvP, dmg is just too low. On PvE it's decent, but PvP nobody uses it, it's garbage.

Also agree bastion of light is definetely A tier, quite solid passive.

With the rest I agree, we can clearly see which classes should be buffed, and which nerfed.

evLRise · August 19

Firstmep wrote: »

Judgements brand A in pvp? Erm, excuse me.

Bastion is by far, like a mile far, the best plar mastery. The consistent healing is very helpful for a Frontline fighter and the ult gen is on par with major heroism as long as you can keep yourself topped up, which is where:

Devout Guardian comes in. I was too skeptical about this mastery at first, but it does provide notable benefits, the shields consistent and passive nature does pad your overall healing a lot and even if it breaks after 1 gcd, that's an extra ult tick from Bastion.
The recovery comes into play when you are closing the distance from fight to fight.

I tried Bastion + Devout a bit. It's decent in BGs vs multiple opponents. Personally due to how consistent DKs, Sorcs and WWs can just permablock due to infinite sustain I prefer having consistent damage rather than a big burst which will get blocked ( by that I mean ult ).

Overall the healing from the base kit felt decent enough, and not running damage masteries ended up resulting in a lot of stalemates vs tankier enemies, hence the preference for the damage masteries.

I play plar rarely so there's a good chance my reasoning is a bit off. I guess I could see both working together if you play more of a HP stacker, with a HP race, 3x triune, 3-5 heavy and death dealer as mythic, since bastion is 8% max HP/s and Devout is 20% Max HP / proc. But even then I get a strong feeling you would need a 2nd shield to somehow shelter the Devout shield in order to gain actual decent value from it, which sounds a bit weird for plar. But sure. I can bring the masteries a bit closer to each other.

Firstmep · August 19

evLRise wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Judgements brand A in pvp? Erm, excuse me.

Bastion is by far, like a mile far, the best plar mastery. The consistent healing is very helpful for a Frontline fighter and the ult gen is on par with major heroism as long as you can keep yourself topped up, which is where:

Devout Guardian comes in. I was too skeptical about this mastery at first, but it does provide notable benefits, the shields consistent and passive nature does pad your overall healing a lot and even if it breaks after 1 gcd, that's an extra ult tick from Bastion.
The recovery comes into play when you are closing the distance from fight to fight.

I tried Bastion + Devout a bit. It's decent in BGs vs multiple opponents. Personally due to how consistent DKs, Sorcs and WWs can just permablock due to infinite sustain I prefer having consistent damage rather than a big burst which will get blocked ( by that I mean ult ).

Overall the healing from the base kit felt decent enough, and not running damage masteries ended up resulting in a lot of stalemates vs tankier enemies, hence the preference for the damage masteries.

I play plar rarely so there's a good chance my reasoning is a bit off. I guess I could see both working together if you play more of a HP stacker, with a HP race, 3x triune, 3-5 heavy and death dealer as mythic, since bastion is 8% max HP/s and Devout is 20% Max HP / proc. But even then I get a strong feeling you would need a 2nd shield to somehow shelter the Devout shield in order to gain actual decent value from it, which sounds a bit weird for plar. But sure. I can bring the masteries a bit closer to each other.

I really learned to love guardian/bastion combo. The passive healing means I can stay offensive more and have to spend less time blocking or using active healing, which translates to better sustain.
I can consistently go toe to toe often with multiple dks putting pressure on me without dropping below 75% hp. I say this not to pad my own ego, just to describe how nice these 2 masteries can be together.

The sustain from guardian is really more of an afterthought, the dinky little shield you get on the other hand can be very handy in long fights.

But I do play your run of the mill maarselok dot plar so i have even less burst than someone using let's say gorethief or lancer.

evLRise · August 19

Firstmep wrote: »

evLRise wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Judgements brand A in pvp? Erm, excuse me.

Bastion is by far, like a mile far, the best plar mastery. The consistent healing is very helpful for a Frontline fighter and the ult gen is on par with major heroism as long as you can keep yourself topped up, which is where:

Devout Guardian comes in. I was too skeptical about this mastery at first, but it does provide notable benefits, the shields consistent and passive nature does pad your overall healing a lot and even if it breaks after 1 gcd, that's an extra ult tick from Bastion.
The recovery comes into play when you are closing the distance from fight to fight.

I tried Bastion + Devout a bit. It's decent in BGs vs multiple opponents. Personally due to how consistent DKs, Sorcs and WWs can just permablock due to infinite sustain I prefer having consistent damage rather than a big burst which will get blocked ( by that I mean ult ).

Overall the healing from the base kit felt decent enough, and not running damage masteries ended up resulting in a lot of stalemates vs tankier enemies, hence the preference for the damage masteries.

I play plar rarely so there's a good chance my reasoning is a bit off. I guess I could see both working together if you play more of a HP stacker, with a HP race, 3x triune, 3-5 heavy and death dealer as mythic, since bastion is 8% max HP/s and Devout is 20% Max HP / proc. But even then I get a strong feeling you would need a 2nd shield to somehow shelter the Devout shield in order to gain actual decent value from it, which sounds a bit weird for plar. But sure. I can bring the masteries a bit closer to each other.

I really learned to love guardian/bastion combo. The passive healing means I can stay offensive more and have to spend less time blocking or using active healing, which translates to better sustain.
I can consistently go toe to toe often with multiple dks putting pressure on me without dropping below 75% hp. I say this not to pad my own ego, just to describe how nice these 2 masteries can be together.

The sustain from guardian is really more of an afterthought, the dinky little shield you get on the other hand can be very handy in long fights.

But I do play your run of the mill maarselok dot plar so i have even less burst than someone using let's say gorethief or lancer.

Adjusted the list a bit to reflect that. Everything else should be pretty accurate and close to reality, +/- based on preference in some cases.

cubbo · August 19

Kinda crazy to put sorc in S tier in "group play" when the only way a sorc is getting into a good PvP group is as a shielder with negate spam 💀

Firstmep · August 19

cubbo wrote: »

Kinda crazy to put sorc in S tier in "group play" when the only way a sorc is getting into a good PvP group is as a shielder with negate spam 💀

It's a thankless job but someone's gotta do it.

Zallion · August 19

Really appreciate the effort put into this post, though a few minor points I don’t 100% agree with. Mostly on the nose though, awesome analysis.

evLRise · August 20

cubbo wrote: »

Kinda crazy to put sorc in S tier in "group play" when the only way a sorc is getting into a good PvP group is as a shielder with negate spam 💀

Sorc has tons of great group tools even without masteries. Streak is the best CC in game, has no target cap and if often way more impactful than negate on a good sorc; A good streak can keep you alive more than most heals in-game, and an offensive streak to CC enemy healers can be stronger than raw damage in a lot of scenarios. Negate is an amazing ult still. Power Surge is good healing. Vibrant Shroud is a really nice burst heal for Major Maim especially. Lightning Flood is a decent Synergy. The sorc execute is nice for single target focus. Quite a lot of good stuff actually.

But the tier list is specifically for class masteries. And if i can dish out 20-25m shields across a 2h run just from slotting 1 passive, the scribing banner and then simply hanging around my group, that's definitely S-tier.

Radiate77 · August 20

Shhh don’t tell him how good the Templar Masteries are in PvP… 🥷

Molagcat · August 20

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

VinnyGambini · August 20

Molagcat wrote: »

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why almost nobody plays necro pvp?

ceruulean · August 20

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Molagcat wrote: »

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why almost nobody plays necro pvp?

1) the class costs money 2) you have to be able to track the target, turn the camera fast enough to maintain blastbones 3) short buff/debuff timers and not always knowing where corpses are makes the corpse siphon mechanic clunky 4) too clunky, demanding of precise rotation, and laggy for high ping players

Firstmep · August 20

ceruulean wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Molagcat wrote: »

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why almost nobody plays necro pvp?

1) the class costs money 2) you have to be able to track the target, turn the camera fast enough to maintain blastbones 3) short buff/debuff timers and not always knowing where corpses are makes the corpse siphon mechanic clunky 4) too clunky, demanding of precise rotation, and laggy for high ping players

To be fair the armor buff and nobility make keeping up siphon very easy.

ceruulean · August 20

Firstmep wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Molagcat wrote: »

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why almost nobody plays necro pvp?

1) the class costs money 2) you have to be able to track the target, turn the camera fast enough to maintain blastbones 3) short buff/debuff timers and not always knowing where corpses are makes the corpse siphon mechanic clunky 4) too clunky, demanding of precise rotation, and laggy for high ping players

To be fair the armor buff and nobility make keeping up siphon very easy.

Yes it's easier than it used to be, but spirit guardian and the other morph feel pretty short. And if you siphon on yourself when you meant to hit the corpse near an enemy it's kinda annoying

AdonisJorge · August 20

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Molagcat wrote: »

I’ve been playing the Necromancer since it was first implemented, and right now, the Necromancer is in the perfect state for solo PvP—neither too strong nor too weak.
There’s no need to buff or nerf it.
It’s very well balanced.
Also, Corpsebuster is powerful in vE but not so strong in vP—unless, of course, the enemies aren’t moving like dummies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why almost nobody plays necro pvp?

Generally, people prefer to use the most overpowered option available. Why play Necro when I can play DK, WW, or Sorc in PvP?

RedMamba · August 20

I wish they would implement some of these changes this update

XVestigeXx · August 21

This is a fantastic post, well done. I really hope zos looks at this and listens especially for NB and Arcanist. I have really wanted to play an arcanist but its the worst to play rn

Firstmep · August 21

XVestigeXx wrote: »

This is a fantastic post, well done. I really hope zos looks at this and listens especially for NB and Arcanist. I have really wanted to play an arcanist but its the worst to play rn

I really think they need to look at tentacle specifically, it's a worse whip with less damage and misses way too often. At the very least they should add a few meter pbaoe effect to it so it doesn't miss nearby targets so often.

Spattering disjunction made it a bit easier to deal damage on Arca in pvp, but tentacle is still a massive issue.

Defensively the sustain is abysmal too, for such an active defensive playstle to work the defensive skills simply cannot be this expensive.
In comparison, my templars healing mostly comes from long term effects such as masteries and the rune, which makes sustaining significantly easier, even tho that class is also miles behind dk/sorc/ww.

HalensShade · August 21

Warden has the "capability" to have the most well rounded masteries. In its current state, that's just not true. In PvE it feels fine, as strong as it's ever been. However in PvP you are funneled into using one set and one ability on every build to even make your masteries function. Serpent's Disdain and Elemental Susceptibility. Serpent's Disdain is a great set, I don't think it needs adjustments. However, I think the proc conditions on warden's mastery needs to change. Instead of how many are active, place a duration on the buff after applying one. Simple. Improves pvp. Doesn't affect pve.

Elemental Susceptibility on the other hand is redundant on pve AND pvp warden as they already have Deep Fissure to account for breach. Making this redundant ability cost Magicka in the next update (good change, but this affects warden specifically) will only hurt warden's sustain, making us sacrifice MORE damage just to have the ability to keep up with other classes when it comes to resource management.

I like the theme of the status effect masteries. I think it's cool, but I think the way they operate need to change to add diversity all around for both PvP and PvE communities.

And even then the other mastery that offer ult gen and sustain only work on overheals with a limited number of green balance abilities. In the current meta you are RARELY at full health in pvp. You get zero return from these. I don't know of a single warden that has even glanced at these. They're just bad and too restricted. In PvE they're amazing for groups. In pvp it's just a other placehold for something that will never be used.

Proposals:
Tundra's Maw, increase duration to 4 seconds and proc off of any chilled to give a window for actually using it in PvP and not being gated behind an ice staff.

Wild Adaptation, whenever you apply chilled or hemorrhaging to an enemy you gain 333 spell and weapon damage for 10 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

Glacial Obstinance, kinda redundant with Wild Adaptation. Proc condition is fine. Maybe more value. Idk. Add resistances or something. You're an obstinate glacier. You should be sturdy. Right?

Green Keepers Hide, gain 3% damage reduction every time you are afflicted with a status effect, stacking up to 5 times. (Having to use elemental Susceptibility to get any value out of this is only going to get worse when the cost is introduced. You have to SPAM it if you are outnumbered. It makes more sense to function off of your ailments rather than someone else' s anyway)

Bountiful Harvest, gain major heroism and 125 Magicka and stamina when you heal yourself with a green balance ability. 1 second cooldown on major heroism.

Edit: I realize that these masteries were just thrown together for warden because of the impending refresh, but they could still stand to have some improvements just like every other class is getting.

ESO_Nightingale · August 21

HalensShade wrote: »

Warden has the "capability" to have the most well rounded masteries. In its current state, that's just not true. In PvE it feels fine, as strong as it's ever been. However in PvP you are funneled into using one set and one ability on every build to even make your masteries function. Serpent's Disdain and Elemental Susceptibility. Serpent's Disdain is a great set, I don't think it needs adjustments. However, I think the proc conditions on warden's mastery needs to change. Instead of how many are active, place a duration on the buff after applying one. Simple. Improves pvp. Doesn't affect pve.

Elemental Susceptibility on the other hand is redundant on pve AND pvp warden as they already have Deep Fissure to account for breach. Making this redundant ability cost Magicka in the next update (good change, but this affects warden specifically) will only hurt warden's sustain, making us sacrifice MORE damage just to have the ability to keep up with other classes when it comes to resource management.

I like the theme of the status effect masteries. I think it's cool, but I think the way they operate need to change to add diversity all around for both PvP and PvE communities.

And even then the other masteries that offer ult gen and sustain only work on overheals with a limited number of green balance abilities. In the current meta you are RARELY at full health in pvp. You get zero return from these. I don't know of a single warden that has even glanced at these. They're just bad and too restricted. In PvE they're amazing for groups. In pvp it's just a other placehold for something that will never be used.

Agreed. Warden is about applying specific status effects (namely chilled and hemo) a lot over the course of an encounter. Not applying a wide range of status effects.

Umbracat449 · August 22

I really wish this sub of the forum would make it's mind up on sorc.

I expect inconsistency and way out views in the main sub, but this is where the smart people hang out. 🤣🤣

And I'm no good at the intricacies of this game, and this sub is a life line.

But it's very confusing 🤣

Turtle_Bot · August 22

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Dojohoda · August 22

Thank you for sharing your Class Mastery breakdown. Good discussion here.

evLRise · August 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Reverb is probably around C- / D tier if it gets implemented the way it was showcased in the summary. Just waiting for the actual change to make it to PTS before updating the list. CoE probably remains S after the changes still.

madmufffin · August 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason

Turtle_Bot · August 23

evLRise wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Reverb is probably around C- / D tier if it gets implemented the way it was showcased in the summary. Just waiting for the actual change to make it to PTS before updating the list. CoE probably remains S after the changes still.

CoE will remain S-tier because ZOS didn't actually fix what was making it so strong in the first place. No amount of numerical nerfs will have ever changed that (unless it's something completely stupid like 80%+ reduction). Unfortunately the nerfs to CoE will only really hurt the builds that were trying to use it in a fairer way (i.e. not abusing it with health costs for free abilities, or the interaction with core combat to not need vigor).

Also, yep, reverb is basically useless if it's not allowed to (at the bare minimum) work with shock damage (Sorcs "element") on top of Sorc abilities. The 100ms frequency "buff" is also completely useless because Sorc doesn't have abilities in the class kit to make use of this change, so it might as well just not have been made at all.

Turtle_Bot · August 23

madmufffin wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason

Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.

Firstmep · August 23

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Reverb just dropped down a few tiers with the proposed week 4 changes. Everyone will just swap to Font and sit around 40k mag/stam for a sizable buff to weapon damage while maintaining enough room in the build to have 40k health, max mitigations, plenty of weapon damage, lots of sustain and keeping their current overtuned procs.

Conservation got some nerfs, but nothing that fixes what makes it so strong in the first place (core combat, health costs and overly cheap abilities). So it will still be everywhere and the same problematic Sorc build everyone is crying about will just become even more common as players that currently play other, less optimal/more balanced, Sorc builds will just swap to the DoT build because the nerfs to reverb and CoE hit the other builds much harder than it hit this build.

Finally found a pvp build I like and a nice damage source is getting dunked on for no reason

Yep, same here, had a shock sorc build that was fun to play, purely thematic and a high pressure spec, that entirely revolved the fact that Reverb was generic, allowing me to actually run very off-meta abilities (shock reach) as part of the core of my build.

I didn't find reverb to be problematic, but the new version might not be as cheeks either. With 20% base chance it can reach a 50% proc chance at just 30% missing hp. That's pretty hefty even if there are fewer sources to proc it.
It's also better for sorcs using sorc skills over the usual master dw or bfb setups for example.
Once I'm done with my plar tests on pts I'll probably take a closer look at reverb too.