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Streak needs a CC nerf
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CannedChicken✭✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »But regardless I still think it should be left. Sorc has big penalties for not slotting actual sorc skills on their bar and if you nerf more of their abilities into oblivion it causes more and more issues.
I'm not asking for Streak to be nerfed into oblivion or for Sorc to lose its mobility identity. I'm asking for the CC component to have some reasonable counterplay.
Pretty much every other CC has to give something up. Fear requires you to get into close range, while other AoE CCs are blockable or dodgeable. Streak bypasses all of those normal restrictions while being attached to the strongest mobility skill in the game.
Streak can remain an excellent mobility tool. I just don't think the CC should get to bypass every normal restriction placed on other CCs.
Sorc already lost its mobility when everyone has access to movement speed tools. Asking for Streak to be nerfed is a slap in the face lol. You want Streak nerfed? Remove easy access to mobility then. It's infuriating to see a Templar or DK sprint as fast as my Sorc when my class is supposed to be the fastest class in the game. What a joke
I also think Streak is a bit overtuned specifically as a CC. No one is calling for its mobility to be removed, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Sorc's mobility in this thread.
Someone else gaining access to movement speed doesn't mean Sorc somehow "lost" its mobility. You still have Streak, and it remains an extremely strong mobility tool.
And I still don't understand where this idea comes from that Sorcerer is **supposed to be the fastest class in the game**. That's a player-created class identity, not some rule ZOS has established. If you have a ZOS statement saying Sorc is explicitly designed to be the fastest class, I'd genuinely like to see it.
Until then, "my class is supposed to be the fastest" isn't really an argument for leaving Streak's CC untouched.
The discussion is about whether Streak is overtuned as a CC. Other classes gaining access to movement speed doesn't change that.
Sorc was the fastest class to make up for its weakness of having little defensive heals. Unless you're telling me a Templar should be able to move as quickly as a Sorc??
By that logic, Sorcs gaining access to Healing Soul means Templars have lost healing, because Sorc now has access to tools that previously helped distinguish Templar defensively.
That's obviously not how this works. Other classes gaining access to tools doesn't mean a class has somehow "lost" something or that every historical class tradeoff has to remain frozen forever when the game has changed drastically with subclassing, class masteries, and scribing.
Have you gotten around to addressing the actual issue yet — why Streak gets arguably the strongest CC in the game by a mile compared to every other CC, while also attaching it to the strongest mobility tool in the game?
You are arguing semantics. Sorc's whole identity was a hit-and-run class and it relied on positioning/CC to survive. Take a look at the class' defensive kit. Dark Deal/Conversion heal is a fixed tooltip locked behind a channel that can be interrupted. Crit Surge is a heal that requires dealing critical damage to proc, so RNG based. Hardened Ward has no heal attached anymore.
Even if you consider Healing Soul burst heal, Sorc still does not have good defensive healing compared to other classes prior to U50. It needs to do damage and position well to survive, or else it dies. People who only played classes with good defensive heals generally struggled when they hopped on Sorc because they never developed the skills required to pilot that class.
So when ZOS made movement speed readily available, Sorc lost its edge yet only gained minimal compensation in return. It's laughable that you are trying hard to argue semantics when I'm in Cyrodiil getting chased down by DKs and Templars moving at max speed while on my Sorc. By definition, Sorc lost its mobility because other classes are faster. When all classes can move at speed cap, there is no gap, hence mobility is lost.
Please stop arguing semantics. It sounds fancy, but it's fundamentally flawed.
This doesn't address anything being discussed in this thread and is completely off topic.
The thread is about the CC component of Streak and whether it is overtuned. Nobody is arguing about Sorc's healing toolkit, how difficult Sorc was to play historically, or whether other classes have gained movement speed.
You can make whatever argument you want about Sorc's historical class identity, but none of that explains why Streak's CC should be AoE, unblockable, undodgeable, uncapped, damaging, and attached to its mobility tool.
If you want to debate Sorc's mobility or defensive healing, make a thread about that. It has nothing to do with the actual proposal being discussed here.
Streak is not overtuned, end of story. Like I said, threads like this pop up every year when Sorc is meta, but nothing gets addressed because there's nothing to address. All your arguments fall flat the moment you step into Cyrodiil and fight people.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.0 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »But regardless I still think it should be left. Sorc has big penalties for not slotting actual sorc skills on their bar and if you nerf more of their abilities into oblivion it causes more and more issues.
I'm not asking for Streak to be nerfed into oblivion or for Sorc to lose its mobility identity. I'm asking for the CC component to have some reasonable counterplay.
Pretty much every other CC has to give something up. Fear requires you to get into close range, while other AoE CCs are blockable or dodgeable. Streak bypasses all of those normal restrictions while being attached to the strongest mobility skill in the game.
Streak can remain an excellent mobility tool. I just don't think the CC should get to bypass every normal restriction placed on other CCs.
Sorc already lost its mobility when everyone has access to movement speed tools. Asking for Streak to be nerfed is a slap in the face lol. You want Streak nerfed? Remove easy access to mobility then. It's infuriating to see a Templar or DK sprint as fast as my Sorc when my class is supposed to be the fastest class in the game. What a joke
I also think Streak is a bit overtuned specifically as a CC. No one is calling for its mobility to be removed, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Sorc's mobility in this thread.
Someone else gaining access to movement speed doesn't mean Sorc somehow "lost" its mobility. You still have Streak, and it remains an extremely strong mobility tool.
And I still don't understand where this idea comes from that Sorcerer is **supposed to be the fastest class in the game**. That's a player-created class identity, not some rule ZOS has established. If you have a ZOS statement saying Sorc is explicitly designed to be the fastest class, I'd genuinely like to see it.
Until then, "my class is supposed to be the fastest" isn't really an argument for leaving Streak's CC untouched.
The discussion is about whether Streak is overtuned as a CC. Other classes gaining access to movement speed doesn't change that.
Sorc was the fastest class to make up for its weakness of having little defensive heals. Unless you're telling me a Templar should be able to move as quickly as a Sorc??
By that logic, Sorcs gaining access to Healing Soul means Templars have lost healing, because Sorc now has access to tools that previously helped distinguish Templar defensively.
That's obviously not how this works. Other classes gaining access to tools doesn't mean a class has somehow "lost" something or that every historical class tradeoff has to remain frozen forever when the game has changed drastically with subclassing, class masteries, and scribing.
Have you gotten around to addressing the actual issue yet — why Streak gets arguably the strongest CC in the game by a mile compared to every other CC, while also attaching it to the strongest mobility tool in the game?
You are arguing semantics. Sorc's whole identity was a hit-and-run class and it relied on positioning/CC to survive. Take a look at the class' defensive kit. Dark Deal/Conversion heal is a fixed tooltip locked behind a channel that can be interrupted. Crit Surge is a heal that requires dealing critical damage to proc, so RNG based. Hardened Ward has no heal attached anymore.
Even if you consider Healing Soul burst heal, Sorc still does not have good defensive healing compared to other classes prior to U50. It needs to do damage and position well to survive, or else it dies. People who only played classes with good defensive heals generally struggled when they hopped on Sorc because they never developed the skills required to pilot that class.
So when ZOS made movement speed readily available, Sorc lost its edge yet only gained minimal compensation in return. It's laughable that you are trying hard to argue semantics when I'm in Cyrodiil getting chased down by DKs and Templars moving at max speed while on my Sorc. By definition, Sorc lost its mobility because other classes are faster. When all classes can move at speed cap, there is no gap, hence mobility is lost.
Please stop arguing semantics. It sounds fancy, but it's fundamentally flawed.
This doesn't address anything being discussed in this thread and is completely off topic.
The thread is about the CC component of Streak and whether it is overtuned. Nobody is arguing about Sorc's healing toolkit, how difficult Sorc was to play historically, or whether other classes have gained movement speed.
You can make whatever argument you want about Sorc's historical class identity, but none of that explains why Streak's CC should be AoE, unblockable, undodgeable, uncapped, damaging, and attached to its mobility tool.
If you want to debate Sorc's mobility or defensive healing, make a thread about that. It has nothing to do with the actual proposal being discussed here.
Streak is not overtuned, end of story. Like I said, threads like this pop up every year when Sorc is meta, but nothing gets addressed because there's nothing to address. All your arguments fall flat the moment you step into Cyrodiil and fight people.
If all of my arguments fall flat, then feel free to address them. But simply hand-waving them away isn't a convincing response, especially when we're talking about arguably the strongest CC in the game.
Saying "Streak is not overtuned, end of story" doesn't actually address anything I've raised. I've given specific reasons why I think the CC is overtuned. If you disagree, explain which part of the argument you disagree with and why.
"Go play Cyrodiil" isn't a counterargument. The fact that Streak is strong in actual PvP doesn't somehow invalidate an argument about why its combination of properties may be overtuned. If anything, that's exactly what we're discussing.1 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?1 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
There is no counterplay to the CC itself. The only actual option is an Immovability potion, which is a universal answer to CC and isn't unique to Streak.
If someone wants to stun you with Streak then there isn't anything you can really do about it.
Why should Streak be the exception when other CCs have additional ways to be avoided, especially when Streak also brings AoE, damage, range, and exceptional mobility to the table?
1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping0 -
MeridiaFavorsMe✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
Was all the counterplay provided in that post? I guess that explains why you didn't actually provide any.
If someone misses Streak, that's a skill issue, not meaningful counterplay. It's one of the easiest CCs in the game to land, especially compared to CCs like Fear that require you to put yourself in melee range and actually risk something.
And honestly, it's much harder to avoid Streak than it is to land Streak. "They might miss" isn't a serious counterplay argument.1 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.1 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Nobody is reactionarily sidestepping a streak, this is just an absurd thing to try and state. If this is how you are engaging with people on this thread I can see why they are frustrated with you. Nobody, within the window of time it takes to see someone activating streak until to moment you are stunned can sidestep it unless you are already so far to one side you won't be hit, or ironically, if you also have streak and have streaked away from them.
So then, building move speed to just run away from them is your entire argument as far as "counterplay" this is the same as saying yeah to counter a guy who can one shot you, just build to never actually be in range to be one shot. This isn't engagement or a logical point at all. Realistically there is no counterplay to streak, you just have to eat the stun.2 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »But regardless I still think it should be left. Sorc has big penalties for not slotting actual sorc skills on their bar and if you nerf more of their abilities into oblivion it causes more and more issues.
I'm not asking for Streak to be nerfed into oblivion or for Sorc to lose its mobility identity. I'm asking for the CC component to have some reasonable counterplay.
Pretty much every other CC has to give something up. Fear requires you to get into close range, while other AoE CCs are blockable or dodgeable. Streak bypasses all of those normal restrictions while being attached to the strongest mobility skill in the game.
Streak can remain an excellent mobility tool. I just don't think the CC should get to bypass every normal restriction placed on other CCs.
Sorc already lost its mobility when everyone has access to movement speed tools. Asking for Streak to be nerfed is a slap in the face lol. You want Streak nerfed? Remove easy access to mobility then. It's infuriating to see a Templar or DK sprint as fast as my Sorc when my class is supposed to be the fastest class in the game. What a joke
I also think Streak is a bit overtuned specifically as a CC. No one is calling for its mobility to be removed, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Sorc's mobility in this thread.
Someone else gaining access to movement speed doesn't mean Sorc somehow "lost" its mobility. You still have Streak, and it remains an extremely strong mobility tool.
And I still don't understand where this idea comes from that Sorcerer is **supposed to be the fastest class in the game**. That's a player-created class identity, not some rule ZOS has established. If you have a ZOS statement saying Sorc is explicitly designed to be the fastest class, I'd genuinely like to see it.
Until then, "my class is supposed to be the fastest" isn't really an argument for leaving Streak's CC untouched.
The discussion is about whether Streak is overtuned as a CC. Other classes gaining access to movement speed doesn't change that.
Sorc was the fastest class to make up for its weakness of having little defensive heals. Unless you're telling me a Templar should be able to move as quickly as a Sorc??
By that logic, Sorcs gaining access to Healing Soul means Templars have lost healing, because Sorc now has access to tools that previously helped distinguish Templar defensively.
That's obviously not how this works. Other classes gaining access to tools doesn't mean a class has somehow "lost" something or that every historical class tradeoff has to remain frozen forever when the game has changed drastically with subclassing, class masteries, and scribing.
Have you gotten around to addressing the actual issue yet — why Streak gets arguably the strongest CC in the game by a mile compared to every other CC, while also attaching it to the strongest mobility tool in the game?
You are arguing semantics. Sorc's whole identity was a hit-and-run class and it relied on positioning/CC to survive. Take a look at the class' defensive kit. Dark Deal/Conversion heal is a fixed tooltip locked behind a channel that can be interrupted. Crit Surge is a heal that requires dealing critical damage to proc, so RNG based. Hardened Ward has no heal attached anymore.
Even if you consider Healing Soul burst heal, Sorc still does not have good defensive healing compared to other classes prior to U50. It needs to do damage and position well to survive, or else it dies. People who only played classes with good defensive heals generally struggled when they hopped on Sorc because they never developed the skills required to pilot that class.
So when ZOS made movement speed readily available, Sorc lost its edge yet only gained minimal compensation in return. It's laughable that you are trying hard to argue semantics when I'm in Cyrodiil getting chased down by DKs and Templars moving at max speed while on my Sorc. By definition, Sorc lost its mobility because other classes are faster. When all classes can move at speed cap, there is no gap, hence mobility is lost.
Please stop arguing semantics. It sounds fancy, but it's fundamentally flawed.
This doesn't address anything being discussed in this thread and is completely off topic.
The thread is about the CC component of Streak and whether it is overtuned. Nobody is arguing about Sorc's healing toolkit, how difficult Sorc was to play historically, or whether other classes have gained movement speed.
You can make whatever argument you want about Sorc's historical class identity, but none of that explains why Streak's CC should be AoE, unblockable, undodgeable, uncapped, damaging, and attached to its mobility tool.
If you want to debate Sorc's mobility or defensive healing, make a thread about that. It has nothing to do with the actual proposal being discussed here.
Streak is not overtuned, end of story. Like I said, threads like this pop up every year when Sorc is meta, but nothing gets addressed because there's nothing to address. All your arguments fall flat the moment you step into Cyrodiil and fight people.
If all of my arguments fall flat, then feel free to address them. But simply hand-waving them away isn't a convincing response, especially when we're talking about arguably the strongest CC in the game.
Saying "Streak is not overtuned, end of story" doesn't actually address anything I've raised. I've given specific reasons why I think the CC is overtuned. If you disagree, explain which part of the argument you disagree with and why.
"Go play Cyrodiil" isn't a counterargument. The fact that Streak is strong in actual PvP doesn't somehow invalidate an argument about why its combination of properties may be overtuned. If anything, that's exactly what we're discussing.
I've addressed all your points. Every class has one skill that performs multiple things. Templar has Cleansing Ritual (5 debuff cleanse, AoE HoT, full cleanse synergy. DK has Wings (50% ranged damage mitigation, AoE knockback, snare immunity and removal, Major Expedition), Warden has Deceptive Predator (10% Minor Evasion, snare immunity and removal, Major Expedition), etc. Streak is in the same ballpark.
You're also singling out and looking at this ability without considering the entire class' playstyle and what made it overperform. U50 broke the class because of CoE. Prior to U50, Sorc was not that tanky and relied on Streak to survive. If you're going to address the class, address the actual offender which is CoE.
And yes, go play cyrodiil is an actual counterargument because if you had spent even 1 hour in Cyro using Streak, you would have instantly understood what I meant by Streak having nuances. Your arguments sound good in theory, but fall short in practice. I have personally chased down Sorcs without needing Streak because I stack max movement speed, which also lets me kite around a Sorc as he attempts to Streak stun me. It's literally not a big problem lol.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Nobody is reactionarily sidestepping a streak, this is just an absurd thing to try and state. If this is how you are engaging with people on this thread I can see why they are frustrated with you. Nobody, within the window of time it takes to see someone activating streak until to moment you are stunned can sidestep it unless you are already so far to one side you won't be hit, or ironically, if you also have streak and have streaked away from them.
So then, building move speed to just run away from them is your entire argument as far as "counterplay" this is the same as saying yeah to counter a guy who can one shot you, just build to never actually be in range to be one shot. This isn't engagement or a logical point at all. Realistically there is no counterplay to streak, you just have to eat the stun.
You can literally tell when someone is about to Streak because they deliberately move forward into range. Having game sense also helps anticipating the person's intent.
I am also frustrated with everyone here because I deal with Sorcs ALL THE TIME and I literally have zero issues against Streak. It's not a problem for me, so perhaps we don't share any common ground here. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Nobody is reactionarily sidestepping a streak, this is just an absurd thing to try and state. If this is how you are engaging with people on this thread I can see why they are frustrated with you. Nobody, within the window of time it takes to see someone activating streak until to moment you are stunned can sidestep it unless you are already so far to one side you won't be hit, or ironically, if you also have streak and have streaked away from them.
So then, building move speed to just run away from them is your entire argument as far as "counterplay" this is the same as saying yeah to counter a guy who can one shot you, just build to never actually be in range to be one shot. This isn't engagement or a logical point at all. Realistically there is no counterplay to streak, you just have to eat the stun.
You can literally tell when someone is about to Streak because they deliberately move forward into range. Having game sense also helps anticipating the person's intent.
I am also frustrated with everyone here because I deal with Sorcs ALL THE TIME and I literally have zero issues against Streak. It's not a problem for me, so perhaps we don't share any common ground here. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
"You can tell when someone is about to streak because they are in range of the streak, just never be in range of their streak" flawless argument.
Edit: Also, I have literally seen you get stunned by streak and die to sorcs, so what are you talking about?Edited by NovelliESO on 23 August 2026 18:241 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.
Javelin is also impossible to react to and requires anticipating the combo. By your logic, Javelin should be nerfed too. See the problem here?
There is counterplay to Streak and it's called building movement speed. This is how I counter Streak users and it works beautifully.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.
Javelin is also impossible to react to and requires anticipating the combo. By your logic, Javelin should be nerfed too. See the problem here?
There is counterplay to Streak and it's called building movement speed. This is how I counter Streak users and it works beautifully.
No, I read the comments in this response, the person was disagreeing about the comparison and they are right to. You can't block jav, but you can dodge it, even if you ignore the fact that you can dodge it, it hits a single person, not a group.1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teeba_Shei wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.
Javelin is also impossible to react to and requires anticipating the combo. By your logic, Javelin should be nerfed too. See the problem here?
There is counterplay to Streak and it's called building movement speed. This is how I counter Streak users and it works beautifully.
You're comparing two completely different things again.
Javelin has travel time and can be dodged. You can react to the projectile because it has a travel time and dodge roll it. Streak is instant and cannot be dodged or blocked. Saying both require "anticipation" doesn't make their counterplay equivalent.
And "build movement speed" isn't a Streak-specific counter. Movement speed is just movement speed. The Streak user has access to the exact same tools and can simply wait for you to move before casting.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.Edited by hoangdz on 23 August 2026 18:290 -
MeridiaFavorsMe✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.Teeba_Shei wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
Counterplay is a deliberate action available to the person being affected that allows them to avoid, mitigate, or punish an ability. It doesn't mean "the other player might miss."
If your answer to an instant CC is "move around and hope they miss," that's not meaningful counterplay. The Streak player controls when they cast it and can simply wait for your movement before using it. The outcome ultimately depends on whether they make a mistake, not whether you made the correct defensive play.
Good counterplay would be something like being able to block, dodge, outrange, interrupt, or otherwise react to the CC through your own gameplay. Saying "hope the Streak player is bad" puts the entire burden on the attacker making a mistake rather than giving the defender a reliable way to respond.
Javelin is also impossible to react to and requires anticipating the combo. By your logic, Javelin should be nerfed too. See the problem here?
There is counterplay to Streak and it's called building movement speed. This is how I counter Streak users and it works beautifully.
Javelin isn't remotely comparable to Streak. You're comparing a single-target projectile with travel time that can be dodge rolled to an instant-cast AoE CC that is unblockable, undodgeable, and has no target cap.
Those aren't remotely equivalent levels of counterplay. Saying "you have to anticipate both" doesn't magically erase the massive mechanical differences between them.
Streak is simply overloaded as an ability and a CC. It gets an absurd combination of range, area, damage, mobility, and lack of counterplay that no other CC comes close to.0 -
merevie✭✭✭✭✭Not a sorc < Die to sorcs often. Never considered streak to be the problem. More the delayed lag dot bursts. CC is just CC.2 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
All of those examples actually prove the opposite of what you're arguing. The other CCs have actual counterplay built into their mechanics. Javelin can be dodge rolled, Fossilize can be dodged, and Fear requires the user to get into melee range, meaning you can simply outrange them.
And you're still comparing completely different abilities. Javelin and Fossilize are single-target CCs with defensive answers. Streak is an AoE, unblockable and undodgeable CC attached to a mobility skill, while also dealing damage and having no target cap. The overall utility and power aren't remotely comparable.
"Sidestep and hope the Sorc doesn't hit you" isn't equivalent counterplay. That's just trying not to be inside the hitbox of an ability that has already been cast.
Your 15,000 duels don't change the mechanics. If after 15,000 duels your best example of Streak counterplay is "I anticipate it and sidestep," then you've failed to identify any actual counterplay. You can have all the experience in the world, but experience doesn't magically turn "hope you're not standing in the hitbox" into a defensive mechanic.
You haven't named a single way to block it, dodge it, outrange it, or otherwise interact with the CC itself. That's the entire point.1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?
Everything I wrote addresses what you said. I play with 300 ping, so Streak doesn't even work for me because it never lands. In some of my clips, I use Ball of Lightning instead, so it's not like I'm benefitting from Streak lol.
And yes, I block cast every ability when fighting (except for kiting because it slows me down).0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?
Everything I wrote addresses what you said. I play with 300 ping, so Streak doesn't even work for me because it never lands. In some of my clips, I use Ball of Lightning instead, so it's not like I'm benefitting from Streak lol.
And yes, I block cast every ability when fighting (except for kiting because it slows me down).
You literally don't your own videos show that.0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?
Everything I wrote addresses what you said. I play with 300 ping, so Streak doesn't even work for me because it never lands. In some of my clips, I use Ball of Lightning instead, so it's not like I'm benefitting from Streak lol.
And yes, I block cast every ability when fighting (except for kiting because it slows me down).
Okay, well that explains why you don't understand how the skill works. For the rest of us who aren't playing from the moon, the game works just fine. If you're playing on 300 ping and Streak "never lands," you're probably not the best person to use your personal experience with Streak as evidence for how balanced it is.
I play around 60ms, and Streak is extremely easy to land. So your experience of the ability being unreliable at 300 ping isn't particularly relevant to how the skill performs under normal conditions.
And none of the rest of this addresses the argument either. Block-casting everything doesn't give Streak counterplay; it just means you're already using a general defensive habit. You've also posted footage where you weren't block-casting, so I'm not sure how relevant that claim is anyway. And saying you use Ball of Lightning in some clips doesn't somehow make Streak's mechanics less powerful.
Your ping, block-casting habits, and which skill you happened to use in some clips don't change the mechanics of Streak for the rest of the player base.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?
Everything I wrote addresses what you said. I play with 300 ping, so Streak doesn't even work for me because it never lands. In some of my clips, I use Ball of Lightning instead, so it's not like I'm benefitting from Streak lol.
And yes, I block cast every ability when fighting (except for kiting because it slows me down).
You literally don't your own videos show that.
I block casted every skill in this subclassed duel video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOn1tUNqsmk&t=90s
If you're wondering why the damage taken numbers don't show blocked, it's because I play with 300 ping, so the latency difference ends up making the skills go through my block anyway.
0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Teeba_Shei wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Yea I’m sorry but even if he didn’t port you were not catching that man lol. If a Sorc wants to get away and they’re not an npc level player you’re not catching them.
In fact he probably only slowed down to port in the first place
He Streaked 3x in a row. You don't do that unless you need to get away.
Honestly, this video doesn't paint Streak in the light you think it does.
The player you're chasing is walking between casts instead of sprinting, so they're making a pretty poor effort to actually escape. Meanwhile, you're sprinting at full speed the entire time and still can't catch them. If they had been sprinting between Streak casts as well, they would've created even more distance.
So you have someone making a mediocre effort to escape while you're making your best possible effort to catch them, and they're still outpacing you. That's not exactly compelling evidence that Streak's mobility is weak.
And again, this thread isn't about nerfing the mobility. The issue is the CC attached to it. The mobility can remain strong while the instant, AoE, unblockable, undodgeable CC gets some reasonable restrictions.
I think you're trying pretty hard to sound like you would do better than that person in the video. I don't think you would. We can always put this down to a test in game. I don't think you'd be able to get away from me just by Streaking though.
Stop acting like a keyboard warrior and stay on topic. This thread is about Sorc CC, not who's better at chasing each other around Cyrodiil.
If you want to challenge someone to a duel or test your Streak escape theory, take it to DMs and do it in-game. Nobody cares about your hypothetical 1v1 here. The discussion is whether Streak's CC component is overtuned and what reasonable counterplay could be added to it.
There is nothing to address lol. All the counterplays have been provided. Failing to do so is not Streak's problem.
... what counterplay?
Building movement speed and sidestepping
So your counterplay solution is to anticipate the timing of an instant-cast ability and hope the player using Streak is bad enough to miss?
"Sidestep it" isn't meaningful counterplay when Streak has a huge hit area and is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. Movement speed doesn't change the fact that the Streak user can simply wait for your movement and cast it when you're in the path.
That's not counterplay to the ability's mechanics. That's just hoping the Streak player screws up.
The counterplay is to read the opponent and know he's about to Streak. It's called having game sense.
Also, you're not going to die from being stunned by Streak. It's literally not a big problem. Getting stunned by Streak is literally no different than randomly getting stunned by Javelin or CCed by other abilities. It happens all the time.
This is an even worse line of argumentation. The counterplay is to know the future. I have been playing the game for as long as you, you know you aren't going to read your opponent properly all the time, you probably don't read your opponent properly the majority of the time. Do you block every single instance of damage that would deal higher than X amount of damage to you? No, of course not, this is such a silly way to engage. Do you block every single instance of blockable CC? No of course not.
The other part of this, "haha you won't die to the stun, getting stunned by streak or jav randomly doesn't kill you" You can die to streak and the ability you cannot play against for that gcd because you were stunned by CC you cannot counter during that time period. I don't even care about streak being nerfed or not, but hearing this as your argument makes me kind of want to take a pro nerfing streak position. This is your best defense, predict the future? Come on now.
I've done over 15000 duels against different players on various classes to know each class' combo by heart. I know when someone is about to use their CC after they've casted certain abilities. For example:
If a Templar casts Purifying Light/PoTL, Ele sus, Crescent, then I know Javelin will be next and will roll dodge spam to avoid it.
A DK will try to use Fossilize every 7s, so I naturally play around that window and anticipate the stun.
A NB will try to play around off-balance, so I hold block when it's up. If they use Fear, I'll just play around the 7s window as they will try to CC into Spectral Bow.
A Necro will try to combo around Blastbones with Turn Evil/Pull, so I'll just hold block when Blastbones is up
A Sorc will try to Streak stun after applying Curse and/or Elesus and other debuffs, so I just sidestep and run around after they do so.
I also block cast every ability, so naturally I block a lot of stuff without needing to think about it.
If you fail to anticipate a combo, then it's not my problem. Just spend more time fighting people and you'll see.
You do realize this entire thing is non-responsive right? The entire thing you wrote doesn't address anything I said.
Also, you are just being bad faith or lying, you can pick which. You do not block cast every ability. You are, even in videos that YOU posted not block casting every ability. Want to try having an actual discussion or are you going to lie, obfuscate, and make horrible meaningless responses to every single person on this thread in an attempt to keep streak from getting attention for being overloaded as a CC?
Everything I wrote addresses what you said. I play with 300 ping, so Streak doesn't even work for me because it never lands. In some of my clips, I use Ball of Lightning instead, so it's not like I'm benefitting from Streak lol.
And yes, I block cast every ability when fighting (except for kiting because it slows me down).
You literally don't your own videos show that.
I block casted every skill in this subclassed duel video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOn1tUNqsmk&t=90s
If you're wondering why the damage taken numbers don't show blocked, it's because I play with 300 ping, so the latency difference ends up making the skills go through my block anyway.
yes, I block cast every ability becomes I block casted every ability in this video. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 24 August 2026 16:074