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so uh can we do something about negate please lol
I've played this game for 6 years now, and have never been the type to complain about anything being broken, or the type that cries that something needs a nerf just because people found a way to kill me with it. But uh yea.. its uh getting pretty ridiculous at this point, and pretty much made a forum account after this long just to politely make it known that sorcerer's negate is the most brainrot ability in the game, and somehow people in PVP are just recently starting to realize it. You can barely look at anyone anymore who doesn't have negate or streak on their bar (if they arent a dk or werewolf super special 1vxer!!!), and some people have entire zerg discord calls of people yelling to spam negates in fights because they know it LITERALLY makes it so no one can even play the game. If you think Im making it up, there are streamers who show their zerg guilds doing it every night. Virtually 24-36 people in one discord call, and all of them have negate on. People come on and complain about every little nonsensical thing, but apparently no one has noticed yet that in every fight in cyrodiil, the entire keep is blanketed in negates, from guards, to 40 person zergs who have it double barred. It's so boring to play anymore lol because you literally cant do it. You cant walk 5 steps without someone negating you. 100 posts a day of people exclaiming "this is is the reason pvp is dying!!!", i promise you this garbage skill is one of the real reasons no one wants to pvp anymore, Do something lol
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ballgroups are bad but 40 person discord calls with all of them double barring an ability that literally makes it so no one can even play the game is totally fine!!!!
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Luneca✭✭✭✭✭I take it as a badge of honor when a faction stack with two ball groups in DC has to negate the entire area just to kill me on my templar or they die on the breach. I know those ball groups love me., they even do it on the open field. They have to to waste over 12 ultimates just to make sure no matter where I roll and how much I cannot escape negate.
But unfortunately for them I might start running rally and vigor soon. The craziest part about it is that I only have around 15K resistances and don't even run as tanky as I could be and they still need to resort to that. What a shame it would be if I started stacking health and tank stats. Oh wait, what if I slotted CP in the CP campaign?
Ah, wait no. I'm getting distracted. If I did that then I wouldn't have enough time to fire siege.0 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Negate is one of the few skills available against bgs and you want it nerfed?
What platform you on as bgs on PSEU aren’t doing this (yet 😬).7 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Negate rarely got used because people didn't know it was useful. Now that it's (thankfully) getting used more frequently, players want it nerfed. 🙄6 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Negate should be buffed not nerfed. It should remove shields + HoTs to mimic how it used to work when healing was majority 'ground' based (with stacked healing springs).
Negate is an expensive denial ultimate which should require groups to 'counter' or move.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)15 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Negate should be buffed not nerfed. It should remove shields + HoTs to mimic how it used to work when healing was majority 'ground' based (with stacked healing springs).
Negate is an expensive denial ultimate which should require groups to 'counter' or move.
I can't even with the nerf sorc nonsense anymore. One of the other threads (not by this OP) was even starting on Rune Cage of all abilities.
DenverRalphy wrote: »Aren't Stamina based abilities the counter to Negate?
Shhh, you can't present facts based ways to counter Sorc abilities, that goes against the #nerfsorc mantra the forums has carefully curated over the decade of this games lifespan. /s
On to a more serious and informative comment in regards to OPs original complaint:
Negate spam is a direct result of ZOS doing almost nothing for a decade to curb the exponentially growing power ceiling that ball groups have enjoyed for far too long now. If ball groups weren't left to become such a massive issue, Negate would have remained the same rarely used ability it has always been because on it's own, it's not a good ability.
As was mentioned above, Stamina abilities (such as Vigor for healing) still work under negate, as do over time effects already on you when the negate was cast. Core combat also still works under negate, so dodge rolling is a very easy way to move around and reduce the impact of Negate.
Lets also be perfectly honest with ourselves here, ANY ability being cast 40+ times will feel oppressive and overpowered, even 40 light attacks will still feel like significant pressure to be on the receiving end of, and that is supposed to happen because it's simple numbers, and for those sorts of numbers to not feel oppressive, would mean whatever individual thing is being hit by those numbers is clearly completely imbalanced in some shape or form.8 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »
I can't even with the nerf sorc nonsense anymore. One of the other threads (not by this OP) was even starting on Rune Cage of all abilities.
That isn't remotely the argument I made about Rune Cage, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't mischaracterize my argument.
The original discussion was about whether Streak is too easy to land and therefore doesn't need a nerf. Someone tried to dismiss that concern by claiming Javelin is an even easier-to-land CC and therefore Streak isn't particularly problematic. My response was that Javelin isn't an appropriate comparison because it's a single-target, dodgeable CC, whereas Streak is an AoE CC with completely different properties.
That's why I brought up Rune Cage. I was simply pointing out that if you want to compare Javelin to a Sorc single-target CC, Rune Cage is the more comparable ability. I wasn't making some separate argument that Rune Cage is better than Javelin or that Rune Cage needs a nerf.
So the Rune Cage debate is basically a tangent created by people misunderstanding what I was actually saying. The original point was that using Javelin as evidence that Streak is balanced is a terrible comparison, especially when the person defending Streak was trying to claim Javelin is somehow more problematic than Streak.
You're arguing against a position I never made.
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CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭✭"I died!"😭 "Everyone needs nerfed!"🤡 STOP RUINING OUR CHARACTERS!
PvP was going to be fixed if we remove Shattered Path, PvP was going to be fixed if we nerfed Warden Charm, PvP was going to be fixed if we nerfed the Wardens Ultimate, PvP was going to be fixed if we nerfed the DK, PvP was going to be fixed if we Nerfed the WW, PvP was going to be fixed if we...
Nerfing things you don't like IS the problem! It's not going to fix ANYTHING. It drives people away from the game. It dissuades new players. It spills over into PvE and hurts the entire player base and it needs to STOP.
It's Tamriel's oldest broken record playing the same song again, "Nerf this, nerf that"
Who is supposed to be dying in PvP? Everyone else, just not you? What are people SUPPOSED to be playing in PvP? What they want, or just characters that haven't been nerfed yet? They've already gutted the newest and only Class refreshes. Why in the world would anyone stick around to see the rest now? And now you're calling for more nerfs to unrefreshed Classes? Why even build a Sorcerer? It's just going to get gutted like the rest.
@Zos Remove GH and reform IC and BG to be in line with Vengeance and stop this INSANITY. Nerfs are not going to fix anything. It is chasing people directly out of the game and people are fed up. Our Guilds are crumbling around us and people are fleeing in droves now. I strongly urge you to see the writing on the wall. Gta6, Once Human, Black Desert and ArcheAge are calling now. And the DKs, WWs, Wardens and soon to be Sorcerers you ruined are already there! If you want the closest thing to balanced PvP, you as the Developers need to take control and set and establish rules for combat. For better or worse. And you have to do it without bending to the will of Ball Groups and people who think they know better than you do - they don't. You just destroyed the nicest characters we had. And for what? To empower nerf calling? To destroy the Sorcerer before it's even reworked? Why not just get pro active and nerf the Templars, Necros, Arcanists too while you're at it. Why not just spare us all the torment and complete waste of time and gut everything?
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »
I can't even with the nerf sorc nonsense anymore. One of the other threads (not by this OP) was even starting on Rune Cage of all abilities.
That isn't remotely the argument I made about Rune Cage, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't mischaracterize my argument.
The original discussion was about whether Streak is too easy to land and therefore doesn't need a nerf. Someone tried to dismiss that concern by claiming Javelin is an even easier-to-land CC and therefore Streak isn't particularly problematic. My response was that Javelin isn't an appropriate comparison because it's a single-target, dodgeable CC, whereas Streak is an AoE CC with completely different properties.
That's why I brought up Rune Cage. I was simply pointing out that if you want to compare Javelin to a Sorc single-target CC, Rune Cage is the more comparable ability. I wasn't making some separate argument that Rune Cage is better than Javelin or that Rune Cage needs a nerf.
So the Rune Cage debate is basically a tangent created by people misunderstanding what I was actually saying. The original point was that using Javelin as evidence that Streak is balanced is a terrible comparison, especially when the person defending Streak was trying to claim Javelin is somehow more problematic than Streak.
You're arguing against a position I never made.
From the other thread, I have also bolded the relevant section for convenience:CannedChicken wrote: »
Javelin isn't really comparable to Streak at all.
Javelin is single-target and dodgeable, and its base range is 22m, so calling it "max range" is misleading. It also doesn't benefit from Cyrodiil's range bonuses in the same way abilities with a lower base range do.
If you actually want to compare Javelin to a Sorc CC, Rune Cage is the much more appropriate comparison. Rune Cage has significantly more range and can reach roughly 41m in Cyrodiil with the relevant range bonuses.
And that's before getting to the obvious difference: Templar doesn't have an AoE CC equivalent to Streak. Sorc gets both a superior long-range single-target CC and Streak.
Streak is an instant AoE CC that is unblockable and undodgeable, has a massive hit area, deals damage, has no meaningful target cap, and simultaneously functions as arguably the strongest mobility ability in the game.
So comparing a dodgeable, single-target Javelin to Streak because "it's easier to land" doesn't really tell us anything about Streak's balance. You're comparing two completely different types of CC.
Honestly, if you can't even identify the basic differences between these abilities before making the comparison, you're not really contributing to the balance discussion. You're just throwing out whichever Sorc/Templar ability you remember and hoping nobody checks the mechanics.
Please inform the crowd what the definition of "Superior" is.2 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’m of the contrary opinion that we do not have enough Negate in the game.
Healers have run rampant over the past few months as for the average player it’s been either heal or play Werewolf or DK.
Negate is the natural counter to Healers and so it only makes sense you’d see more of them considering the power of Practiced Incantation being used off of cooldown.
Moving forward, I would like to see Dark Magic specialize in varies forms of Negate, like shorter duration active skills.Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA3 -
Just_Attivi✭✭✭✭✭I dont think negate is broken, though maybe it should cost more, have a shorter duration, or have a shorter duration and gain a time bonus scaling with # of sorc skills slotted or something. Id be fine with it being like 6 seconds, or costing like 300. It is very powerful. But i dont mind it as is.
It is absolutely ridiculous though, being small man or sometimes solo, and 24+ EP roll in and drop 10+ negates to blanket entire regions lol. This is routine behavior in cyrodiil of late. I think its less so negate being an issue, and more so a symptom of the high health and largely mag (DK/sorc) meta we are in.0 -
Zallion✭✭✭✭Negate is fine. Streak is fine.
If anything more silence/dispel abilities and sets in the game would be cool.5 -
hollow_winds✭✭Shocker.
The ball group player wants something that kills his ball group nerfed, lolPC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style8 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Negate is balanced. In high mmr competitive battlegrounds it's one of the very few things to counter healers.
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hollow_winds✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style8 -
LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups0 -
hollow_winds✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
Where did I cry about ball groups? Also, show me a clip of 40 people spamming negates, not NPC’s, actual players. If you’re struggling with NPC negates then that’s a skill issue 🤷🏼♂️PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style4 -
LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
Where did I cry about ball groups? Also, show me a clip of 40 people spamming negates, not NPC’s, actual players. If you’re struggling with NPC negates then that’s a skill issue 🤷🏼♂️
just go watch hellsangels or bobbyblaster on twitch every day. 2-3 full 12 man groups who do nothing but spam negates at everyone. and those are just 2 streamers, there are many more groups in game that do the exact same thing, on every alliance. you probably dont pay attention to this in game, because you play solo probably just playing a block tank or siege bot build; we do not have the same experience. again, just from your tone and holier-than-thou type posts, you dont want an actual engagement, you just want to cry about groups and insult people.0 -
hollow_winds✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
Where did I cry about ball groups? Also, show me a clip of 40 people spamming negates, not NPC’s, actual players. If you’re struggling with NPC negates then that’s a skill issue 🤷🏼♂️
just go watch hellsangels or bobbyblaster on twitch every day. 2-3 full 12 man groups who do nothing but spam negates at everyone. and those are just 2 streamers, there are many more groups in game that do the exact same thing, on every alliance. you probably dont pay attention to this in game, because you play solo probably just playing a block tank or siege bot build; we do not have the same experience. again, just from your tone and holier-than-thou type posts, you dont want an actual engagement, you just want to cry about groups and insult people.
Me saying you want negates nerfed so your ballgroup doesn’t die means I’m crying about groups? How does that make any sense? I find it incredibly hard to believe there’s 40 players all running a negate build, if you have a clip or screenshot, I’d love to see it.
And I didn’t insult anyone. If you can’t handle a simple NPC negate then that’s most definitely a skill issue. I would imagine most players here would agree. Also, I’ve never played a block tank or siege bot in my life but okay 🙂PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style3 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
This sounds like it could just be one group of players trolling, rather than an actual problem.
If it was a group of players that large all hitting Remembrance, Corrosive, Eye of the Storm, Onslaught, ect… it would be equally, if not more disruptive.
Your real problem is the number of people coordinating ultimates.Founder of New Age Crusade, the #1 Battlegrounds guild on Xbox NA5 -
LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
This sounds like it could just be one group of players trolling, rather than an actual problem.
If it was a group of players that large all hitting Remembrance, Corrosive, Eye of the Storm, Onslaught, ect… it would be equally, if not more disruptive.
Your real problem is the number of people coordinating ultimates.
its not coordinated beyond "we have 36 people in one discord call and we're all spamming negate so these people cant play the game", and trust me, its not just one group - its multiple, on every alliance. Just because we have different experiences, does not mean this isnt happening and isnt an issue.0 -
hollow_winds✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
This sounds like it could just be one group of players trolling, rather than an actual problem.
If it was a group of players that large all hitting Remembrance, Corrosive, Eye of the Storm, Onslaught, ect… it would be equally, if not more disruptive.
Your real problem is the number of people coordinating ultimates.
its not coordinated beyond "we have 36 people in one discord call and we're all spamming negate so these people cant play the game", and trust me, its not just one group - its multiple, on every alliance. Just because we have different experiences, does not mean this isnt happening and isnt an issue.
This is a really specific claim you’re making without any evidence other than “trust me bro”PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style6 -
LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
This sounds like it could just be one group of players trolling, rather than an actual problem.
If it was a group of players that large all hitting Remembrance, Corrosive, Eye of the Storm, Onslaught, ect… it would be equally, if not more disruptive.
Your real problem is the number of people coordinating ultimates.
its not coordinated beyond "we have 36 people in one discord call and we're all spamming negate so these people cant play the game", and trust me, its not just one group - its multiple, on every alliance. Just because we have different experiences, does not mean this isnt happening and isnt an issue.
This is a really specific claim you’re making without any evidence other than “trust me bro”
you can literally go watch these people stream, or actually try to play in a group instead of just being a siege bot complaining about everyone who plays better than you0 -
hollow_winds✭✭LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »LoganSpencer1 wrote: »
Know the game? You're just upset that there's a somewhat useful and reliable counter to your ballgroup and because it hinders your group, you want it nerfed. As others have stated in this post, negates aren't even particularly strong and deserve a buff.
really theres nothing wrong with 40 people spamming an ability that literally makes it so you cant play the game? theres nothing wrong with going into a keep and THE NPCS are blanketing you with the best, most obtrusive skill in the game? You dont actually care if the ability is brainrot or not, you just want to cry about ballgroups
This sounds like it could just be one group of players trolling, rather than an actual problem.
If it was a group of players that large all hitting Remembrance, Corrosive, Eye of the Storm, Onslaught, ect… it would be equally, if not more disruptive.
Your real problem is the number of people coordinating ultimates.
its not coordinated beyond "we have 36 people in one discord call and we're all spamming negate so these people cant play the game", and trust me, its not just one group - its multiple, on every alliance. Just because we have different experiences, does not mean this isnt happening and isnt an issue.
This is a really specific claim you’re making without any evidence other than “trust me bro”
you can literally go watch these people stream, or actually try to play in a group instead of just being a siege bot complaining about everyone who plays better than you
Who’s complaining? Lol. You literally made a post complaining about negates killing your ballgroup.
Never played a “siege bot” in my life either, 🤷🏼♂️PC NA
Necro & NB Main
1vX & Bowgank Style3
