Back to pop locked GH for hours while vengeance can't even fill one bar

JustLovely · July 28

Such a relief to have PvP back. And surprise surprise, GH is pop locked with over an hour queue on a Monday, and vengeance can't even fill one bar.

Come on ZOS. Catch a clue.

Gabriel_H · July 28

[snip]

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great. No desync, no lag, stable fps only taking a small hit when 300+ players were casting skills simultaneously, and set procs having little to no impact on performance.

Little reason for ZOS not to now add back non-combat passives, the rest of the set bonuses, the CP trees, and resource type morphs for skills and see how the performance is then.

I suspect much of the performance problem has been solved by reworking the skills and eliminating combat passives. The next step after the above would be to add back limited passives and see how the performance fares.

[snip]

[edited for baiting/flaming]

JustLovely · July 28

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

Except vengeance is not a test environment and the participation numbers speak for themselves. Vengeance isn't popular enough to stand on it's own merits.

Gabriel_H · July 28

JustLovely wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

Except vengeance is not a test environment and the participation numbers speak for themselves. Vengeance isn't popular enough to stand on it's own merits.

[snip]

Yes, not a test environment, that's why they keep testing things. [snip]

Oh and nothing to do with it being a Vengeance thread. Everything to do with it being out of context misinformation poorly presented.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

JustLovely · July 28

Gabriel_H wrote: »

[snip]

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great. No desync, no lag, stable fps only taking a small hit when 300+ players were casting skills simultaneously, and set procs having little to no impact on performance.

Little reason for ZOS not to now add back non-combat passives, the rest of the set bonuses, the CP trees, and resource type morphs for skills and see how the performance is then.

I suspect much of the performance problem has been solved by reworking the skills and eliminating combat passives. The next step after the above would be to add back limited passives and see how the performance fares.

[snip]

Except there was desync, lag and disconnecting issues. Performance was even worse than GH this time around.

Lokiator · July 28

JustLovely wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great. No desync, no lag, stable fps only taking a small hit when 300+ players were casting skills simultaneously, and set procs having little to no impact on performance.

Little reason for ZOS not to now add back non-combat passives, the rest of the set bonuses, the CP trees, and resource type morphs for skills and see how the performance is then.

I suspect much of the performance problem has been solved by reworking the skills and eliminating combat passives. The next step after the above would be to add back limited passives and see how the performance fares.

But you're not interested in a good faith debate, are you?!

Except there was desync, lag and disconnecting issues. Performance was even worse than GH this time around.

As someone who was in Vengeance one evening when all 3 factions had 3 bars of population, I experienced one very brief desync, but thought the performance was fantastic given that there were more than 600 players online. I saw no lag and never disconnected once.

Luneca · July 28

Lokiator wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great. No desync, no lag, stable fps only taking a small hit when 300+ players were casting skills simultaneously, and set procs having little to no impact on performance.

Little reason for ZOS not to now add back non-combat passives, the rest of the set bonuses, the CP trees, and resource type morphs for skills and see how the performance is then.

I suspect much of the performance problem has been solved by reworking the skills and eliminating combat passives. The next step after the above would be to add back limited passives and see how the performance fares.

But you're not interested in a good faith debate, are you?!

Except there was desync, lag and disconnecting issues. Performance was even worse than GH this time around.

As someone who was in Vengeance one evening when all 3 factions had 3 bars of population, I experienced one very brief desync, but thought the performance was fantastic given that there were more than 600 players online. I saw no lag and never disconnected once.

As someone that plays in Gray Host regularly, even when locked, I don't experience lag or desync and my ping is 40 or less over 99.9% of the time. I can even run the build I use -- essentially a trash build with Hiti's Whisper since I don't need gear to fire siege, and still roll and block well enough to the point I don't get one shot.

Vengeance has zero purpose for me, if it's about lag. That means the other parts of it have to be on par or better than Gray Host. Spoiler: they aren't. And that's what @JustLovely is getting at. It has no real purpose other than supposedly being a less laggy experience, yet, in reality it still isn't such an experience for enough players that it doesn't matter.

Also, highly doubt you didn't experience lag considering the way how sets work and complexity. I am pretty sure once players started finding true meta builds to use there and abuse the 6 damage limit, etc. the sets would have bogged the server down for sure for everyone.

it may have simply lagged less for you based on the time slot you participated in, and the fact that a large portion of the PvP players that would be there with the obnoxious builds and ball grouping didn't appear because they did not want to help test esp. when coerced into doing so.

At any rate, the conclusion they were looking to test could have been reached by opening up a computer science book instead of going for a test. And that conclusion is still valid whether you claim to have experienced lag or not. Which is why I never discount the experience of anyone lagging in GH either.

The fact that the testing was based on player participation makes the conclusion that it "lags less" a faulty one, even if that were the end result, because the number of players participating says nothing about the complexity they are adding to the system. Which is exactly why the experience may have differed between posters on these very forums in the first place.

Necrotech_Master · July 28

had no issues in vengeance myself during the test, even though GH is bad the moment a ball group shows up

ping in vengeance was stable at 80-90 even during massive fights in keeps, where as GH a single ball group shows up and ping jumps to 120+ and up to 300+ if its an actual large fight with multiple ball groups (basically cant do anything except fire siege which in GH feels like it does diddly)

i dont know how much overhead the procs have, but the main key difference i notice between GH and vengeance is with my killcounter tracking

in vengeance killcounter only reports killing blows, not assists, where as GH it reports killing blows and assists

thing is i usually end up having like 10x more assists than killing blows, and i think that with a big fight, the number of assist kills could be flooding the network API

so that combined with reduced target caps to prevent 1 person from say nuking 30 people at once is likely freeing up the network bandwidth to generally improve performance even during large fights

katanagirl1 · July 28

I was looking forward to getting back to Gray Host, but it seemed hardly anyone on PS NA knew it was back and our one bar of DC was being steamrolled by two bars of EP when I got there.

Sigh.

CAB_Life · July 28

Sorry, I ask again and again, and no one has a single video of anything bigger than at best 50v50 on Alessia bridge from the FIRST Vengeance test (I saw this all over in GH last night, so), or, some anecdotal “believe me bro” stories from EU. Where were these 300+ players all in glorious zerg v zerg and why couldn’t you or anyone so much as screen cap that splendor to naysay all the anti-vengeance folk? I suspect I know why. In this day and age it takes 5s to clip something. We have no reason to believe these population caps are correct other than blind trust.

And I’m not even anti-vengeance but the whole thing has been so aggressively and passive-aggressively engineered and foisted that its entire purpose and implementation should be questioned at this point.

[edited to remove quote]

Four_Fingers · July 28

This debate is getting old, who cares as long as we have both GH and Vengeance.

BardokRedSnow · July 28

Four_Fingers wrote: »

This debate is getting old, who cares as long as we have both GH and Vengeance.

I do because they only had a "test" with greyhost and vengeance ONCE and Im tired of having our favorite game mode stripped away every "test" for people who have a chip on their shoulder about pvp and do more pvp on the forums copy pasting statements than actually playing the game.

Korvax_Ironwhisper · July 28

CAB_Life wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great. No desync, no lag, stable fps only taking a small hit when 300+ players were casting skills simultaneously, and set procs having little to no impact on performance.

Little reason for ZOS not to now add back non-combat passives, the rest of the set bonuses, the CP trees, and resource type morphs for skills and see how the performance is then.

I suspect much of the performance problem has been solved by reworking the skills and eliminating combat passives. The next step after the above would be to add back limited passives and see how the performance fares.

But you're not interested in a good faith debate, are you?!

Sorry, I ask again and again, and no one has a single video of anything bigger than at best 50v50 on Alessia bridge from the FIRST Vengeance test (I saw this all over in GH last night, so), or, some anecdotal “believe me bro” stories from EU. Where were these 300+ players all in glorious zerg v zerg and why couldn’t you or anyone so much as screen cap that splendor to naysay all the anti-vengeance folk? I suspect I know why. In this day and age it takes 5s to clip something. We have no reason to believe these population caps are correct other than blind trust.

And I’m not even anti-vengeance but the whole thing has been so aggressively and passive-aggressively engineered and foisted that its entire purpose and implementation should be questioned at this point.

I'm not sure there is a big enough Cyrodiil community to even fill all three factions on pc-na. There were some large battles but I doubt over 70-100 vs.

As for lag, it wasn't really stress tested even. I noticed next to no lag as far as Cyrodiil goes. Ping wasn't outrageous like GH.

At the end of the day, the test is over. Enjoy your queued, PVD, or fairly empty campaign. I'm making steady progress on veterancy regardless.

CalamityCat · July 28

So Vengeance was live before the test, then there was a week of testing and it's back to the old version. Meaning that Vengeance players never lost access to Vengeance. So why would they suddenly rush to pop lock it this week? If anything I'd expect players to take a break after a week of testing sets and builds, especially those who realized they could get faster gains there and level up veterancy a lot faster in Vengeance.

Meanwhile Those Who Will only Fight in Grey Host went elsewhere for a week and were clearly frustrated that they were locked out of GH. So of course they pop locked GH when it came back, because some were clearly pacing the floor waiting for GH to re-open. My dog did the same thing when we painted the downstairs and she couldn't pop lock the sofa for a few days. Zero surprises all round.

So there really isn't any news here, just PvPers who don't like Vengeance tests trying to count the population and declare it's a failure. But you're the only players who are trying to win with population bars. You can claim you're winning the race, but you're the only people who are actively competing...

Korvax_Ironwhisper · July 28

NovelliESO wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

So Vengeance was live before the test, then there was a week of testing and it's back to the old version. Meaning that Vengeance players never lost access to Vengeance. So why would they suddenly rush to pop lock it this week? If anything I'd expect players to take a break after a week of testing sets and builds, especially those who realized they could get faster gains there and level up veterancy a lot faster in Vengeance.

Meanwhile Those Who Will only Fight in Grey Host went elsewhere for a week and were clearly frustrated that they were locked out of GH. So of course they pop locked GH when it came back, because some were clearly pacing the floor waiting for GH to re-open. My dog did the same thing when we painted the downstairs and she couldn't pop lock the sofa for a few days. Zero surprises all round.

So there really isn't any news here, just PvPers who don't like Vengeance tests trying to count the population and declare it's a failure. But you're the only players who are trying to win with population bars. You can claim you're winning the race, but you're the only people who are actively competing...

GH is pop locked every single night, so your bad faith engagement with the facts doesn't really mean anything. But that's all the people on the vengeance side can do, because engaging with facts when the facts don't benefit them is just as bad a route.

I hate to break it to you, but some people hop into vengeance casually and have FUN. They aren't sitting on the forums splitting hairs trying to make the forums pvp as well. Vengeance needs to evolve more over time for sure. GH is what it is, [snip]

I hate to break it to you, but some people hop into GH and casually have FUN. They aren't sitting on the forums splitting hairs trying to make the forums pvp as well.

What point do you think you are making? Of course you don't see the reason to whine, you don't engage with reality. People on the forums are trying to point out the difference in population because GH gets shut down for testing in vengeance which more people do not want than do, can you not understand that? Can you engage with that point, at all? No? Okay.

I can understand being frustrated by the tests, I don't really think GH should be shut down. But the pvp community is a rather small portion of the game population and ZoS probably knows they cannot test without enticing the whole pvp population. I don't really care either way to be honest, as I am casual with pvp and don't take it seriously at all. It is a game and I treat it as so. I just like vegeance more because it has less of the cheesy one shot type stuff and I don't need to fill even more of my inventory with sets I will only use on occasion.

[snip] Vengeance exists, Blackreach exists, GH exists, do what you enjoy and let others to their time.

To each their own.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

NovelliESO · July 28

Orbital78 wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

So Vengeance was live before the test, then there was a week of testing and it's back to the old version. Meaning that Vengeance players never lost access to Vengeance. So why would they suddenly rush to pop lock it this week? If anything I'd expect players to take a break after a week of testing sets and builds, especially those who realized they could get faster gains there and level up veterancy a lot faster in Vengeance.

Meanwhile Those Who Will only Fight in Grey Host went elsewhere for a week and were clearly frustrated that they were locked out of GH. So of course they pop locked GH when it came back, because some were clearly pacing the floor waiting for GH to re-open. My dog did the same thing when we painted the downstairs and she couldn't pop lock the sofa for a few days. Zero surprises all round.

So there really isn't any news here, just PvPers who don't like Vengeance tests trying to count the population and declare it's a failure. But you're the only players who are trying to win with population bars. You can claim you're winning the race, but you're the only people who are actively competing...

GH is pop locked every single night, so your bad faith engagement with the facts doesn't really mean anything. But that's all the people on the vengeance side can do, because engaging with facts when the facts don't benefit them is just as bad a route.

I hate to break it to you, but some people hop into vengeance casually and have FUN. They aren't sitting on the forums splitting hairs trying to make the forums pvp as well. Vengeance needs to evolve more over time for sure. GH is what it is, [snip]

I hate to break it to you, but some people hop into GH and casually have FUN. They aren't sitting on the forums splitting hairs trying to make the forums pvp as well.

What point do you think you are making? Of course you don't see the reason to whine, you don't engage with reality. People on the forums are trying to point out the difference in population because GH gets shut down for testing in vengeance which more people do not want than do, can you not understand that? Can you engage with that point, at all? No? Okay.

I can understand being frustrated by the tests, I don't really think GH should be shut down. But the pvp community is a rather small portion of the game population and ZoS probably knows they cannot test without enticing the whole pvp population. I don't really care either way to be honest, as I am casual with pvp and don't take it seriously at all. It is a game and I treat it as so. I just like vegeance more because it has less of the cheesy one shot type stuff and I don't need to fill even more of my inventory with sets I will only use on occasion.

To each their own.

Your original point was "I don't understand why people whine, it doesn't effect them.. aside from the time it effects them" Imagine a scenario in which you go into your house and you were burglarized and someone says "I don't see why you are complaining, you were only robbed once this month, otherwise this doesn't even effect you." It's such an elementary non-engagement with any reality. Yes, believe it or not, aside from the times in which people are negatively effected by something, they are no longer being negatively effected once it stops effecting them. This is a nonsensical argument.

If you are a causal PvPer you shouldn't be engaging with something that you say doesn't even effect you, you don't take it seriously by your own admission. If you like vengeance more that's fine, I hope you play it and enjoy it, nobody is saying otherwise. We, as the greater majority of the PvP playerbase, do not want GH taking a back seat to vengeance when more people enjoy GH to begin with, it doesn't make sense from any logical perspective.
[edited to remove quote]

JustLovely · July 28

Four_Fingers wrote: »

This debate is getting old, who cares as long as we have both GH and Vengeance.

I care. I play GH and vengeance is a direct threat to the existence of GH as it stands now.

If ZOS was planning on keeping GH they wouldn't pull it down every time they wanted to "test" vengeance.

Leave "testing" vengeance to those who want to play it WITHOUT removing the PvP we've been playing since inception. It's not too much to expect.

SeaGtGruff · July 28

JustLovely wrote: »

Such a relief to have PvP back.

As someone who enjoys both Gray Host and Vengeance, and who has been spending time actually playing in Vengeance (as opposed to just peeking in briefly from time to time), I really cannot understand the kinds of remarks that some players keep making about Vengeance, such as "it isn't PvP," or "it's PvP for beginners." As far as I can tell, it's just one of the ways they are trying to discourage other players from even thinking about participating in Vengeance, as if boycotting Vengeance on their own isn't enough so they try to shame others into joining their boycott.

If you don't like Vengeance, that's fine-- just say so, and don't participate in it. Stick to whichever campaign you prefer, be that Gray Host or Blackreach. But trying to shame or belittle anyone who plays in Vengeance is uncalled for.

There were many large-scale PvP battles going on last week in Vengeance, and there were times when one or more alliance had 3 bars, which as far as I know represents a larger population size than a pop-locked alliance in Gray Host. And most of the times when I was on, Vengeance had at least 2 bars of each alliance. Time of day is absolutely a factor in this. Late last night I looked at all three campaigns, and in every single one of them-- Gray Host included-- all of the alliances had just 1 bar. Back when I had Gray Host as my Home campaign, there were many nights when I would go to Cyrodiil hoping for some fun PvP action, only to see that my alliance had very few people on at that hour. And yes, that happens in Vengeance, too. But if I go to Cyrodiil at other hours of the day-- whether in Vengeance, or before when I was playing in Gray Host-- there is plenty of action going on.

CalamityCat · July 28

NovelliESO wrote: »

GH is pop locked every single night, so your bad faith engagement with the facts doesn't really mean anything. But that's all the people on the vengeance side can do, because engaging with facts when the facts don't benefit them is just as bad a route.

LOL. Nowhere did I say it was unusual for GH to be pop locked. It's cute that you wanted to claim bad faith, but I'm not the one who made a big deal because GH was pop locked when the Vengeance test ended. Call the OP out on that, because as I have already said, there isn't anything surprising about either the GH population or the Vengeance one. Anyone could have guessed what would happen this week. People who play GH went back into GH when it returned. People who never lost access to Vengeance were never going to pop cap it after the test. 100% predictable. Even this thread popping up was predictable...

I'm also not on the "Vengeance side" because unless there's a test on I don't play there, so again you're wrong. It's too different from GH/Blackreach for me to go there regularly. I PvP in GH, Blackreach, IC and BGs depending what kind of PvP I want and the time I have to do it. I'm not a fanatic or hater of any of them.

NovelliESO · July 28

CalamityCat wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

GH is pop locked every single night, so your bad faith engagement with the facts doesn't really mean anything. But that's all the people on the vengeance side can do, because engaging with facts when the facts don't benefit them is just as bad a route.

LOL. Nowhere did I say it was unusual for GH to be pop locked. It's cute that you wanted to claim bad faith, but I'm not the one who made a big deal because GH was pop locked when the Vengeance test ended. Call the OP out on that, because as I have already said, there isn't anything surprising about either the GH population or the Vengeance one. Anyone could have guessed what would happen this week. People who play GH went back into GH when it returned. People who never lost access to Vengeance were never going to pop cap it after the test. 100% predictable. Even this thread popping up was predictable...

I'm also not on the "Vengeance side" because unless there's a test on I don't play there, so again you're wrong. It's too different from GH/Blackreach for me to go there regularly. I PvP in GH, Blackreach, IC and BGs depending what kind of PvP I want and the time I have to do it. I'm not a fanatic or hater of any of them.

Sure, I'll explain how this is bad faith because you don't understand your own words, or you are acting as if you don't in an attempt to come off as if you aren't bad faith.

Your first question "So Vengeance was live before the test, then there was a week of testing and it's back to the old version. Meaning that Vengeance players never lost access to Vengeance. So why would they suddenly rush to pop lock it this week? If anything I'd expect players to take a break after a week of testing sets and builds...."

What does this convey? You are saying nobody would rush back into vengeance because it was just a week long test, so the lower population is to be expected post test, everyone is exhausted from the last week of testing!!! In reality, population in vengeance is low the entirety of the time it is around and not forced on players with double AP and the removal of GH and BR, with the exception of PC EU. You are trying to act as if it is only unpopulated because of the post test decrease in players, bad faith and wrong.

Second bad faith argument, "Meanwhile Those Who Will only Fight in Grey Host went elsewhere for a week and were clearly frustrated that they were locked out of GH. So of course they pop locked GH when it came back"

This is you trying to convey that pop locked it due to not having GH for a week, when GH is pop locked daily. If you are going to act as if you aren't saying those things when you words things like that, you are just furthering your bad faith, but that's fine, I don't expect you to argue in good faith anyway, because as I've already stated, facts regarding population always ends up hurting vengeance players.

Mogli · July 28

Just to add to the conversation, I only play ESO for Gray Host, if it's gone or not an option I simply play another game. If Gray Host gets removed, I quit the game. Simple as.

RedMamba · July 28

Vengeance performance was terrible this test................

kargen27 · July 28

I'm happy they are still trying to come up with a better solution for Cyrodiil. Gray Host doesn't give us the epic battles we had before most the calculations had to go server side and Vengeance doesn't give us the freedom we want. So it's good they are still trying to figure that out.
And it really isn't fair comparing population bars as Vengeance allows 150% more players. A long queue time in Gray Host isn't always because of a large number of players waiting to get in but more how long players stay once in. Gray Host is my favorite but if shutting it down for a week from time to time can lead to improvements I'm all for it.

Eldovar · July 28

JustLovely wrote: »

Such a relief to have PvP back. And surprise surprise, GH is pop locked with over an hour queue on a Monday, and vengeance can't even fill one bar.

Come on ZOS. Catch a clue.

Who cares?
Go play GH or BR if you prefer that.

The co-existence of Vengeance will cause you no mental or physical harm if you ignore it. I promise!

I do hope they don't turn off GH in the future so we can have a whining free forum.

CalamityCat · July 28

NovelliESO wrote: »

Your first question "So Vengeance was live before the test, then there was a week of testing and it's back to the old version. Meaning that Vengeance players never lost access to Vengeance. So why would they suddenly rush to pop lock it this week? If anything I'd expect players to take a break after a week of testing sets and builds...."

What does this convey? You are saying nobody would rush back into vengeance because it was just a week long test, so the lower population is to be expected post test, everyone is exhausted from the last week of testing!!! In reality, population in vengeance is low the entirety of the time it is around and not forced on players with double AP and the removal of GH and BR, with the exception of PC EU. You are trying to act as if it is only unpopulated because of the post test decrease in players, bad faith and wrong.

When I say I'd expect players to take a break from testing, I'm not saying "they took a break because they were testing the previous week." I simply stated that it could be expected in that situation. Those are very different sentences.

I made it clear that there was no reason for a larger population in Vengeance because they didn't get locked out the previous week. Because that is the only reason why I'd expect a higher than normal population this week. Why else would there be a higher Vengeance population this week? I merely added a reason why it might not be high, because it's a particularly silly week to point to these pop bars and claim it's some sort of "message". Vengeance pop was never going to be newsworthy this week and we all know that.

Second bad faith argument, "Meanwhile Those Who Will only Fight in Grey Host went elsewhere for a week and were clearly frustrated that they were locked out of GH. So of course they pop locked GH when it came back"

This is you trying to convey that pop locked it due to not having GH for a week, when GH is pop locked daily. If you are going to act as if you aren't saying those things when you words things like that, you are just furthering your bad faith, but that's fine, I don't expect you to argue in good faith anyway, because as I've already stated, facts regarding population always ends up hurting vengeance players.

No I didn't say it pop locked because they'd been locked out, I said of course they pop locked it because I know it is normally busy. I've gone on guild raids in GH for several years at peak times, I'm well aware of when I'll need to start queuing based on what's happening each week. The only surprising outcome would have been if it wasn't pop locked. So you can try and claim what you like about what I'm saying, but there still isn't a reason to get excited about the population bars this week.

And I'll say it again, I'm not a Vengeance player. The only players who make threads obsessing about population numbers are from GH. Nobody from Vengeance has made a thread complaining about the low population after a test week. So if you want to daydream about Vengeance players crying because GH has a pop cap, you need a new hobby.

JustLovely · July 28

Eldovar wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Such a relief to have PvP back. And surprise surprise, GH is pop locked with over an hour queue on a Monday, and vengeance can't even fill one bar.

Come on ZOS. Catch a clue.

Who cares?
Go play GH or BR if you prefer that.

The co-existence of Vengeance will cause you no mental or physical harm if you ignore it. I promise!

I do hope they don't turn off GH in the future so we can have a whining free forum.

You care, and so do I.

There is no co-existence of vengeance and GH when ZOS removes GH from the game. That is the problem. That and those who have such a visceral hatred of PvP and PvP players that can't tolerate people complaining when the content they log on to play is removed from the game.

James-Wayne · July 28

JustLovely wrote: »

Such a relief to have PvP back. And surprise surprise, GH is pop locked with over an hour queue on a Monday, and vengeance can't even fill one bar.

Come on ZOS. Catch a clue.

You know vengeance supports 9 times the population right? Which is why the bars are lower, simple maths

JohnRingo · July 28

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Still not understanding the bars are different numbers, and that Vengeance is a test environment.

You know, if you'd actually helped test the last week you'd have found that the test went great.

A choice to not participate in testing is a valid option and provides clear feedback on its own merits.

For me, I have never been happier to wait in queue for GH.

JohnRingo · July 28

Sorry @Gabriel_H. Didn’t get the quote section quite right in my prior post!

Stamicka · July 29

They should stop removing GH for these tests, but this population debate is tired. What is it supposed to accomplish anyway? ZOS has more exact population data than we will ever have, so it’s not like you’re letting them know something new.

ZOS_CouchTato · July 29

After review of this thread, we have decided to remove some unnecessary back and forth. Please keep our threads constructive and civil, and keep the Community Rules in mind when posting.