Guild Tools sending mails to unselected ranks

Keekalakookoo · June 9

Hey guys,

I tried the new guild mailing feature, which I'm very excited about. I first sent myself a test mail picking the Guildmaster rank, and after that a mail to one of our other ranks. That second mail was sent to me too, which surprised me, as my rank was not selected.
Then I received messages from my officers that they got both those mails in their inbox as well. I double checked to make sure I did not make a mistake and I did not. After some digging it seems that a copy of any mail sent out is sent to ranks who have the guild mailing permission turned on.

Is this intended?

Thanks.

ApoAlaia · June 9

I've observed the same behaviour myself. Surely this is not intended?

KCMail · June 9

I have tested on Live and this seems to be the current behaviour but from what I can remember this wasn't present when I was testing on PTS, so clarity on if it is the intended behaviour or a bug would be incredibly appreciated.

WolfStar07 · June 10

I reported this bug on the forum in the latter part of PTS testing, and a guildie submitted a report in game, and it seems it still went live. If this was intended behavior, it should've been mentioned. Personally, I don't think it makes sense. Officers with permissions don't necessarily want to or need to know about mails being sent to specific groups they're not in (like if a rank is reserved for guildies who are subject to being purged if they don't make requirements).

heinousmoz · June 10

It gets even more fun than that. I tested out the behaviour and found that when I was the only person authorised only I and those at the rank I selected got the mail. Later that evening I authorised the Co-GM accounts to be able to send mail and when those accounts logged in this morning they had now retrospectively received the email.

I can understand that with something like a welcome mail that would be useful but when you are sending out reminder mails to people for not meeting requirements if they get one as soon as their rank is changed they'll potentially end up getting ones for multiple previous weeks where it didn't apply to them.

Is this also intended behaviour, is there any way to opt out of some of these features, is there any indication of how far back the retrospective feature will mail people you don't necessarily want it to?

WolfStar07 · June 10

heinousmoz wrote: »

Is this also intended behaviour, is there any way to opt out of some of these features, is there any indication of how far back the retrospective feature will mail people you don't necessarily want it to?

I think yes, it is intended because of the case you mentioned, welcome mails and such. The only way to stop that is to remove the mail from the list of active mails after you've sent it. I expect that wouldn't remove the mail from the recipients' mailboxes. Good news is that it (is supposed to) remain active for only 2 weeks before naturally expiring.

Actually, it does seem that removing the mail from the active list removes it from recipients' mailboxes.

heinousmoz · June 10

That's a terrible way to work it. Either you delete it too early and people who should have got it don't because they haven't logged on in the meantime. Or you leave it too late to delete it and people get it twice. Oh and it relies on people knowing how the mail system works and remembering to do that every single time...

WolfStar07 · June 10

I'm not sure if they would get it twice. That'll depend on whether ZOS internally kept track of who received the mail. Changing ranks shouldn't affect that unless they moved to a rank that received mail which that person previously had not. And since you confirmed that happened, maybe ZOS is internally tracking recipients. What would be interesting to know is whether this happens if that person- changes ranks multiple times, or leaves the guild and returns during that 2 week period. And if promoting/demoting someone multiple times results in them getting the mail multiple times, did moving out of a rank that they'd received guild mail on (which they hadn't been deleted) remove that mail from their inbox? Or do they just have multiple copies of it?

heinousmoz · June 10

It would be nice if someone from ZOS could actually explain how it is supposed to work and what functionality, if any, isn't working as planned.

At this point the way it "seems" as if it might work makes it impractical for use in sending our weekly reminder mails which rather defeats the purpose of it.

Keekalakookoo · June 10

The more I learn about it, the more confused I am if I'm honest. At this point I don't know what is intended and what is a bug anymore.

I'll stop using it for now and hope there will be some answers or clarification from ZOS, it would greatly help.

WolfStar07 · June 10

I know the send mail to people in the rank while it is active is by design because they actually said so during the showcase earlier this year. But I guess no one (including us, since I never saw anyone mention it here) ever thought about any case but someone joining the guild. Now we're finding unintended consequences. Everything else is a toss up between whether it's intended with unforeseen consequences or a bug.

KCMail · June 10

WolfStar07 wrote: »

did moving out of a rank that they'd received guild mail on (which they hadn't been deleted) remove that mail from their inbox? Or do they just have multiple copies of it?

It removes it, they will receive it again if their rank changes back, so if you have a "welcome rank" [Like my guild does] it doesn't even work as a welcome mail feature, because it's gone after they're promoted and will probably never be seen

hiyde · June 10

A guild can have 5 mails active at once, with whatever rank targeting you desire.
If someone earns that rank while a mail is active for it, they'll get it retroactively.
If someone loses a rank that has mail targeted to it, it will get removed from their inbox if they didn't already delete it themselves.

@heinousmoz
"I can understand that with something like a welcome mail that would be useful but when you are sending out reminder mails to people for not meeting requirements if they get one as soon as their rank is changed they'll potentially end up getting ones for multiple previous weeks where it didn't apply to them."

It's only going to send them *currently active* mails targeted at their new rank. Old (deleted,expired) mails are not going to be sent to anyone retroactively.

There will still be use cases for addons like Godsend, and this tool could use some polish, but wow it is so nice not to have to stare at 500 mails sending one by one for the weekly guild newsletter.

heinousmoz · June 11

All I want is the facility to be able to send weekly reminders without worrying that deleting if from the mail tool will delete it from their inbox unread and not deleting it from the guild tool will confuse matters week by week when the ranks are done, like a real email system.

Apparently that that was too "simple" and we have this strange system with unintended (or not, who knows) consequences.

Happily there is still Godsend out there but I shall miss the brief moment of hope of being able to send mails to multiple people with one click on a weekly basis.

hiyde · June 11

heinousmoz wrote: »

All I want is the facility to be able to send weekly reminders without worrying that deleting if from the mail tool will delete it unread from their inbox unread and not deleting it from the guild tool will confuse matters week by week when the ranks are done, like a real email system.

Apparently that that was too "simple" and we have this strange system with unintended (or not, who knows) consequences.

Happily there is still Godsend out there but I shall miss the brief moment of hope of being able to send mails to multiple people with one click on a weekly basis.

I hear you that it's wonky but for your weekly reminders:
Send it.
7 days later, before sending the next one, delete it.
Send the new one.

During that 7 days, everyone who should see that week's mail will see it. When you're sending the next one, that's a great time to delete the previous one if it contains (now outdated) info.

I also would have been happier with them just duplicating Godsend and making it instant-send. But as far as I know, GMs/Officers weren't asked for input on how it should work. Is it helpful as-is? Yes. Is it overly complicated/messy? Also Yes imo.

WolfStar07 · June 11

.

hiyde wrote: »

I also would have been happier with them just duplicating Godsend and making it instant-send. But as far as I know, GMs/Officers weren't asked for input on how it should work. Is it helpful as-is? Yes. Is it overly complicated/messy? Also Yes imo.

Well, sort of. There was a GM summit... last year? And we were asked for what we wanted and we were told they'd figure out how to do various things within their own constraints. It would've been nice to get more input or clarification from them, but I guess this is how they made it work.

Keekalakookoo · June 11

hiyde wrote: »

heinousmoz wrote: »

All I want is the facility to be able to send weekly reminders without worrying that deleting if from the mail tool will delete it unread from their inbox unread and not deleting it from the guild tool will confuse matters week by week when the ranks are done, like a real email system.

Apparently that that was too "simple" and we have this strange system with unintended (or not, who knows) consequences.

Happily there is still Godsend out there but I shall miss the brief moment of hope of being able to send mails to multiple people with one click on a weekly basis.

I hear you that it's wonky but for your weekly reminders:
Send it.
7 days later, before sending the next one, delete it.
Send the new one.

During that 7 days, everyone who should see that week's mail will see it. When you're sending the next one, that's a great time to delete the previous one if it contains (now outdated) info.

I also would have been happier with them just duplicating Godsend and making it instant-send. But as far as I know, GMs/Officers weren't asked for input on how it should work. Is it helpful as-is? Yes. Is it overly complicated/messy? Also Yes imo.

The previous one does not contain 'outdated' info, it contains info that someone did not meet requirements for the given week and this does not change when the next week starts. If someone is afk for a bit for whatever reason, and this happens frequently, when they log back on they see they missed requirements for said weeks by the mails left in their inbox. Deleting a previous mail will cost them insight and us income.

Like moz and you, all I hoped for was simply the option to send mails to selected ranks or guild wide. Godsend, but without the risk of being kicked. This is now called 'guild mail', but does not function like mail at all, more like a notification board one can put things up on and remove at will. Which I get is useful for f.e. social guilds to put up events and whatnot, but it's missing the basic mail functionality.

Also from a member perspective and not just GM, sometimes I keep mails to read things through again or not forget, I find it incredibly odd someone (or a system) that is not me is deleting my mails.

WolfStar07 · June 11

Keekalakookoo wrote: »

This is now called 'guild mail', but does not function like mail at all, more like a notification board one can put things up on and remove at will.

I remember that also being a specific request at the GM summit, so I wonder if ZOS chose this approach to combine the two. Unfortunately, it's one of those solutions which doesn't work for everyone.

And I agree, not crazy about mail getting deleted from my inbox through someone else's actions.