The Silence On Antiquity Leads Is Defeaning!

Emeratis · May 6

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

The lead is likely not broken. I've done hundreds of runs of the leads I need over the past few months with no luck, but lootlog shows them frequently dropping for other players in the runs (especially dungeon leads). At least LL helps confirm it's not broken but it is annoying and boring to run the same five dungeons almost a thousand times and still not have even the second copy of a lead....

yeah, but the chance is so slim then, then it could be considered broken, in a different meaning. But to each its own, I won't do this mess anymore.

The problem is we've had several threads about the abysmal droprate of leads and asking if it's bugged and zos has said "we will go check it" and come back shortly after saying it's working as intended. That is the problem, they do not currently see a problem with the current droprates in the system despite us as players trying to get them to see it is a problem, hence this thread and others.

We also know from the earlier threads if you come to them with the accusation it is bugged, they will check for bugs and if it is not they will say "there is no problem here." That is why lead discourse has changed to how it's disrespecting players time/effort, has no sense of reliable progression like every other system in game does, etc, because at the heart of it that is the problem with leads and the things we need them to address/fix. That is why I advise not continuing to spin our wheels talking about bugs and go straight to where the problem lies, because I think that's the only hope we have for seeing it change.

Al_Ex_Andre · May 6

Personally, for loot like this, I think that buying the lead should be the solution if one doesn't want to farm with that minuscule chance to drop. But in Infinite archive the leads you want never comes, and in Imperial city too.

They should fix that.

But like i said to each its own, I won't do that anymore in the current state. The solution for me was direct and simple.^^

For what anyway? There's no character sheet to make it visible to other players just to tell the story of this achievement. It's just personal satisfaction.^^

So yes but no. Dead content.

Gabriel_H · May 6

For some added context: By the time I had farmed the 3 relics, and the 3 dungeons in the Night Market I had 3 out of 3 on all codex entries for those antiquities.

In the same amount of time, I've run BC2 and the 1st secret boss in GD well over a dozen times and have not had the 3rd iteration of their leads drop.

MoonPile · May 7

Emeratis wrote: »

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

The lead is likely not broken. I've done hundreds of runs of the leads I need over the past few months with no luck, but lootlog shows them frequently dropping for other players in the runs (especially dungeon leads). At least LL helps confirm it's not broken but it is annoying and boring to run the same five dungeons almost a thousand times and still not have even the second copy of a lead....

yeah, but the chance is so slim then, then it could be considered broken, in a different meaning. But to each its own, I won't do this mess anymore.

The problem is we've had several threads about the abysmal droprate of leads and asking if it's bugged and zos has said "we will go check it" and come back shortly after saying it's working as intended. That is the problem, they do not currently see a problem with the current droprates in the system despite us as players trying to get them to see it is a problem, hence this thread and others.

We also know from the earlier threads if you come to them with the accusation it is bugged, they will check for bugs and if it is not they will say "there is no problem here." That is why lead discourse has changed to how it's disrespecting players time/effort, has no sense of reliable progression like every other system in game does, etc, because at the heart of it that is the problem with leads and the things we need them to address/fix. That is why I advise not continuing to spin our wheels talking about bugs and go straight to where the problem lies, because I think that's the only hope we have for seeing it change.

That's a good point.

Some people in the past (some, not even Devs) have taken "bug" etc. literally and it derails the conversation. Whereas in most cases like this, the customer is saying "This feels broken. This feels bad." When a design or UX feels bugged, it may as well be bugged, as far as the user is concerned. If the answer is only "it's working as intended", you'll lose those customers sooner or later. Though sure, whether their number is significant enough / whether they're important to retain is another question.

Most of us surely get this. But still, I support not getting lost in the semantics in favor of addressing the actual issues.

ApoAlaia · May 7

Gabriel_H wrote: »

For some added context: By the time I had farmed the 3 relics, and the 3 dungeons in the Night Market I had 3 out of 3 on all codex entries for those antiquities.

In the same amount of time, I've run BC2 and the 1st secret boss in GD well over a dozen times and have not had the 3rd iteration of their leads drop.

The night market lead situation is outrageous.

What is this nonsense? You don't have to camp the same argent for 135 respawns to get a lead? You just... engage with the gameplay loop and you get rewarded for it?

Absolutely ludicrous.

Hereby I prescribe that you farm no less than three buzzing spines as means of atonement.

Gabriel_H · May 8

I'll be adding this to my OP.

One of, if not our biggest, gripes with leads are the ones from Treasure Maps. ZOS recently changed the maps to not only stack, but also to come a container containing a random map. This has caused this problem:

TTC Listing for Telvanni Treasure Maps in their entirety:

TTC Listing for Unopened Treasure Map:

That's a problem.

Emeratis · May 8

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I'll be adding this to my OP.

One of, if not our biggest, gripes with leads are the ones from Treasure Maps. ZOS recently changed the maps to not only stack, but also to come a container containing a random map. This has caused this problem:

TTC Listing for Telvanni Treasure Maps in their entirety:

TTC Listing for Unopened Treasure Map:

That's a problem.

Before the map changes I could get Telvanni maps for 1-3k on PC NA, now it's 8-10k for a bargain but most are closer to 15-20k. A friend of mine has sent me their extra treasure maps for over a year and I used to get 1-3 mails a week but since the u49 changes I have been lucky to get 1 a month. It's really not cool that it feels like the treasure map QOL changes came with a drawback/monkey's paw effect and ZOS should really buff them back to their old droprate. QOL is meant to be QOL not a tradeoff...

MoonPile · May 11

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I'll be adding this to my OP.

One of, if not our biggest, gripes with leads are the ones from Treasure Maps. ZOS recently changed the maps to not only stack, but also to come a container containing a random map. This has caused this problem:

TTC Listing for Telvanni Treasure Maps in their entirety:

TTC Listing for Unopened Treasure Map:

That's a problem.

It's even worse with Solstice Maps, of course. "Cheap" price is ~50k.

I fluffing called it, too:

https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/806644089059688448/is-eso-update-49-addressing-treasure-map-issues

(Post from back when this change was announced. The player who asked was referencing the issues we're talking about in this thread and the others linked in the post, incl. the main one about maps specifically: "Removing Map Based Leads?")

“Is ESO update 49 addressing treasure map issues?”

A player asked me.
No. Not at all.

It might actually make the latest DLC maps worse because stacking maps will make hoarding them easier (waiting for rng-boost events), thereby increasing their absurd price.

Gabriel_H · May 12

MoonPile wrote: »

It's even worse with Solstice Maps, of course. "Cheap" price is ~50k.

Oh, it's not the price I was having the issue with. When I said that was the entirety of the TP listing I meant it - 7 maps for sale vs 44 pages (440 items) of Unopened maps.

Edit: Added items number

Yökarhu · May 12

Leads are so super frustrating, bc you are at the mercy of the rng, no matter what you do, you can't effect the outcome and I loathe gambling. Sure, its fine we need to farm the leads, but they shouldn't be our day job!

It is absolute grabage, to farm Galen dailies for weeks, getting hundreds of coffers and not a lead to the darn furniture that I need to do 3 HECKING TIMES to be able to buy it to my other houses. I regret sooo much buying 6 months eso+ (learned my lesson, not gonna happen again). there is no respect for our time. Did you know Galen has only 2 WB? Guess how many times I have been doing that unbelievebly annoying wood-dude boss?? I haven't done that zone quest yet and I never will, if I one day get those *sensured* leads I will never set my foot in there again. Can't stand that zone anymore. Is this the reasult they want?
What is even funnier /s, is to try to do the lava fields many times a day with different characters to get the coffers, when you have to wait for 10-20 minutes to get at least another player so you don't have to solo the hecking field. Sure I can do it, but it is not fun, it is tedious and takes forever. If I'm playing the game and thinking constantly: "god I hope this is over soon", the game has done something wrong, imo.

It just feels like bullying at this point and I know, I am stupid for being stubborn. Been trying it for so long, can't stop now. :P So what's the other point besides make us annoyed and frustrated. It can't be just artifically bloat the time ppl are playing, sure no? They wouldn't desrespect and use us like that, yeah?
if I have to farm one lead for weeks, 4-6h a day, it is not rewarding, not challenging, not OK, Zos. Not ok.

AzuraFan · May 12

Yökarhu wrote: »

Leads are so super frustrating, bc you are at the mercy of the rng, no matter what you do, you can't effect the outcome and I loathe gambling. Sure, its fine we need to farm the leads, but they shouldn't be our day job!

It is absolute grabage, to farm Galen dailies for weeks, getting hundreds of coffers and not a lead to the darn furniture that I need to do 3 HECKING TIMES to be able to buy it to my other houses. I regret sooo much buying 6 months eso+ (learned my lesson, not gonna happen again). there is no respect for our time.

That's what I hate about the rng for leads. As I've said before, most of the time I think about quitting this game, it's because I've invested tons of time into trying to get a lead, and it just won't drop.

In an MMO, it's important that reward match the time invested, and this is one area where it doesn't. Not by a long shot. It starts to feel like the dev teams hates its players. They need to do at least one of three follwing three things:

1. A pity system
2. Increased RNG for leads (and remove double RNG cases)
3. More leads vendors that take more currencies. Right now, only those who like the IA or PvP in IC have an easy mode to get leads. The rest of us deserve one too.

MoonPile · May 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

It's even worse with Solstice Maps, of course. "Cheap" price is ~50k.

Oh, it's not the price I was having the issue with. When I said that was the entirety of the TP listing I meant it - 7 maps for sale vs 44 pages (440 items) of Unopened maps.

Edit: Added items number

I've seen that too, barely any base zone maps for sale anywhere. Even unopened are scant because people are hoarding (including me, and just as I thought would happen).

That aside, I definitely do have an issue with the price (especially given all of the data collected here: https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/808642600457338880/info-treasure-map-antiquities-leads-02-2026)

QOL for whom?

A friend has a theory that maybe this will all improve when Antiquities get added to base game later on. Maybe they are saving a real QOL update for then. Can only hope.

fall0athboy · 12:25AM

AzuraFan wrote: »

Yökarhu wrote: »

Leads are so super frustrating, bc you are at the mercy of the rng, no matter what you do, you can't effect the outcome and I loathe gambling. Sure, its fine we need to farm the leads, but they shouldn't be our day job!

It is absolute grabage, to farm Galen dailies for weeks, getting hundreds of coffers and not a lead to the darn furniture that I need to do 3 HECKING TIMES to be able to buy it to my other houses. I regret sooo much buying 6 months eso+ (learned my lesson, not gonna happen again). there is no respect for our time.

That's what I hate about the rng for leads. As I've said before, most of the time I think about quitting this game, it's because I've invested tons of time into trying to get a lead, and it just won't drop.

In an MMO, it's important that reward match the time invested, and this is one area where it doesn't. Not by a long shot. It starts to feel like the dev teams hates its players. They need to do at least one of three follwing three things:

1. A pity system
2. Increased RNG for leads (and remove double RNG cases)
3. More leads vendors that take more currencies. Right now, only those who like the IA or PvP in IC have an easy mode to get leads. The rest of us deserve one too.

Any time I complain about leads in my guild chats, I mention how much I like the RuneScape boss pet pity system.

For those unfamiliar:

Let's say to get the Ritual Circlet for the Gaze of Sithis, the drop rate is 1 / 20 from Cradle of Shadows.

The pity system would work as follows.

Each source of a lead will have a threshold, we'll call it y. For the purposes of this, Cradle of Shadows' threshold is 20. For each run of Cradle of Shadows, we increment a counter by one each time we do not get the lead. When our counter reaches 20, it resets. The drop rate will then become 2 / 20, and the cycle begins again until we get the lead. For the sake of this, we should probably make it lower, because 20 is roughly where people are getting leads at anyways.

AzuraFan · 1:26AM

fall0athboy wrote: »

The pity system would work as follows.

Each source of a lead will have a threshold, we'll call it y. For the purposes of this, Cradle of Shadows' threshold is 20. For each run of Cradle of Shadows, we increment a counter by one each time we do not get the lead. When our counter reaches 20, it resets. The drop rate will then become 2 / 20, and the cycle begins again until we get the lead. For the sake of this, we should probably make it lower, because 20 is roughly where people are getting leads at anyways.

I think the "pity rate" should depend on where the lead is sourced. You have to spend a lot of time for a chance at some dungeon leads. Other leads, not so much. Harvesting leads (leads you get from a resource node) can be very time consuming if they're not dropping, so perhaps a node count would be good there.

I doubt very much they'll implement a pity system because it would require tracking a ton of data for each account. So while I suggested it, I did so more for completeness. Instead, I'd like to see drop rates increased significantly where it makes sense. Bosses in dungeons, for example, where you might have to spend 20-30 minutes (not counting queue time) just for a chance at the lead.

And I'd really, really like to see #3. Two vendors that take specific currencies and only offer 2 leads a week just isn't enough. There should be vendors that take other currencies, and for the love of Azura, have them offer 10-20 leads a week, please, so we don't have to wait more than a year for a lead to come around.

Gabriel_H · 3:12AM

AzuraFan wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

The pity system would work as follows.

Each source of a lead will have a threshold, we'll call it y. For the purposes of this, Cradle of Shadows' threshold is 20. For each run of Cradle of Shadows, we increment a counter by one each time we do not get the lead. When our counter reaches 20, it resets. The drop rate will then become 2 / 20, and the cycle begins again until we get the lead. For the sake of this, we should probably make it lower, because 20 is roughly where people are getting leads at anyways.

I think the "pity rate" should depend on where the lead is sourced. You have to spend a lot of time for a chance at some dungeon leads. Other leads, not so much. Harvesting leads (leads you get from a resource node) can be very time consuming if they're not dropping, so perhaps a node count would be good there.

I doubt very much they'll implement a pity system because it would require tracking a ton of data for each account. So while I suggested it, I did so more for completeness. Instead, I'd like to see drop rates increased significantly where it makes sense. Bosses in dungeons, for example, where you might have to spend 20-30 minutes (not counting queue time) just for a chance at the lead.

And I'd really, really like to see #3. Two vendors that take specific currencies and only offer 2 leads a week just isn't enough. There should be vendors that take other currencies, and for the love of Azura, have them offer 10-20 leads a week, please, so we don't have to wait more than a year for a lead to come around.

They already track a ton of data, from boss kills to plants harvested.