Maintenance for the week of May 11:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
hard facts about wizards wardrobe breaking the add-on terms and CoC
-
ShutUpitsRed✭✭✭✭✭This thread is really scary. I imagined running a trial without add-ons telling me wth is going on and it made me yearn for the comparative serenity of Castle Alessia on a Saturday night.
To me, doing trial scoreboard runs without add-ons sounds like the same kind of self sabotage as doing monoclass runs or naked runs. Like, you can, but... why, unless you're doing a gimmick run? Is sitting there like, thank the gods I'm not allowed to switch to a build that better suits this circumstance, more fun?
Add-ons are a part of the game, and ZOS definitely knows about a name as big as WW. If anything, add-ons are an accessibility feature imo.1 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭Reginald_leBlem wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »First, an exploit isn't what you define it to be, it's what ZOS defines it to be, and they've been clear on what is and isn't.
Second, the argument you are making is effectively equivalent to, "There are restrictions on gun sales, so there should also be restrictions on kitchen knife sales."
Allowing full respec (like changing subclasses) is different in degree than just changing gear or slotted skills, much like a gun is different than a kitchen knife, even if both can be used as murder weapons.
Finally, gear swap addons have been around for over a decade; Dressing Room has been around since June 2015 and AlphaGear since July 2015. The horse left the barn and is now in a different country and you're just now trying to shut the barn door. Also, the fact that ZOS has allowed gear swap addons for over a decade says something.
(But hey, all this had been said before. In response to the countless other times you've spammed this topic on the forums.)
EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
wizards uses resources to give advantages ( locked only behinde it ) to players using it ( exploiting leaderboards and scored content, able to bypass restrictions in content other systems has to follow ) , the fact that zos/eso development has covered for these actions for 10 years on PC donest change the fact that they are there and now been on consloe for a year it just goes to show that they favor not enforcing their add-on terms and CoC in favor of out-side developers because an personal connection and popularity of the item violating the ADD-ON TERMS AND COC set froth by the game development ...
i get and understand fully that they have let this go unchecked for so long that players fells its not a real issue but thats only because you are now protecting what has been allowed for so long ,, i get thats a failure on zos reinforcing their add-on terms and CoC but it doesnt change that they allow it and that its wrong .. as long as it can be used in content that has leaderboards and scoring it will 100% go against
Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game
and no matter what since it gives a disadvantage it will be seen as a burden and against
Add-on Terms of Use 1 (iii) undue or unfair burden to the Game, its Services, including customer service support, and/or to other users.
no matter how long it is in game been in game or let to stay in game or how popular it is
An addon is not a person, resource or situation.
It's not unfair if everyone has access to it.
It's not selfish when someone took hours (or days, I don't know how long it takes to code this sort of thing) to make an addon for free and put it on a website for everyone who wants it.
the add-on uses resources ( API ) in ways that gives advantages.. can be used in leaderboards , counts while doing speed runs ( tho gives a advantage of time ) that effect both leaderboards and scoring system
it being available for all doesnt change its core actions and by having its core actions it become mandatory not a choice
it may not be selfish but it does give a advantage that is unique only to it so unfair advantage fits that part of exploit more so then it being selfish but you can pick what parts fit your views
Edited by heimdall14_9 on 12 May 2026 04:22Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
where i play if i play how i play has not differences to the fact of the actions being talked about here ADD-ON TERMS and COC aint limited to one platform tho they have only been enforced on console it would seem for the last 10 yearsEdited by heimdall14_9 on 12 May 2026 04:26Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShutUpitsRed wrote: »This thread is really scary. I imagined running a trial without add-ons telling me wth is going on and it made me yearn for the comparative serenity of Castle Alessia on a Saturday night.
To me, doing trial scoreboard runs without add-ons sounds like the same kind of self sabotage as doing monoclass runs or naked runs. Like, you can, but... why, unless you're doing a gimmick run? Is sitting there like, thank the gods I'm not allowed to switch to a build that better suits this circumstance, more fun?
Add-ons are a part of the game, and ZOS definitely knows about a name as big as WW. If anything, add-ons are an accessibility feature imo.
I have a friend who runs 0 addons. He's one of the best DDs, if not the best DD, I know. He knows every visual and audio cue in the game. He finds it fun, and he gets a sense of accomplishment from it (I suspect), and him lacking addons has never screwed up any run, so who am I to tell him what to do?! He does his job better than DDs I know with addons coming out the wazoo.
Some raid leads mandate Elms or Crutch. I prefer to teach people where to stand. Now, some may say I am disadvantaged, I say I'm not. Standing on a marker is fine if everything is going well, but it breeds complacency and reliance imo. So when something goes wrong people are unsure of what to do as there is no marker for them to go to in that moment, and that can lead to death and wipes.
I use addons to compensate for sight issues, and for QoL. That's my choice. Others will make different choices, but if everyone has access to the same addons then I really don't see the issue.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
ETA
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing. In my case I'm glad I was forced to step out of my comfort zone and try them but not everyone will be and not everyone even can here.
WoW recently made changes to their games to decrease the importance of add-ons. So, it's definitely worthy of consideration.
Although I don't think the solution is delete the add-ons like OP does. I don't find them selfish at all and am grateful to the add-ons devsEdited by spartaxoxo on 12 May 2026 04:432 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
I also think they could make changes to some base game experiences, personally. Like the tell for heavy attacks and interrupts are pretty hard to see.3 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShutUpitsRed wrote: »This thread is really scary. I imagined running a trial without add-ons telling me wth is going on and it made me yearn for the comparative serenity of Castle Alessia on a Saturday night.
To me, doing trial scoreboard runs without add-ons sounds like the same kind of self sabotage as doing monoclass runs or naked runs. Like, you can, but... why, unless you're doing a gimmick run? Is sitting there like, thank the gods I'm not allowed to switch to a build that better suits this circumstance, more fun?
Add-ons are a part of the game, and ZOS definitely knows about a name as big as WW. If anything, add-ons are an accessibility feature imo.
You can still switch to other builds, respeccing isn't stopping you?
But also, there's red AoE's. and indicators.
Unless you think that ZoS should relegate trial design to be more bare-bones as to necessitate addons?0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
I also think they could make changes to some base game experiences, personally. Like the tell for heavy attacks and interrupts are pretty hard to see.
I can't see them at all in most cases. Night Market mobs have been particularly brutal on my eyes. I also think ZOS should pony up some dough (even though they already technically own all addons while at the same time not - legal clauses) for some addon writers for creating them, and incorporate them into their (ZOS') LUA code. @code65536 's Combat Alerts and his extended journal are definitely something that should be in the default UI.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
The first step is to see what addons provide in PC and to try to emulate that level of accessibility with game design... Not half-ass it and offload it to 3rd parties.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
I also think they could make changes to some base game experiences, personally. Like the tell for heavy attacks and interrupts are pretty hard to see.
I can't see them at all in most cases. Night Market mobs have been particularly brutal on my eyes. I also think ZOS should pony up some dough (even though they already technically own all addons while at the same time not - legal clauses) for some addon writers for creating them, and incorporate them into their (ZOS') LUA code. @code65536 's Combat Alerts and his extended journal are definitely something that should be in the default UI.
No. I think we need to champion your cause. Addons should provide this functionality. And those not willing or knowledgeable enough should be cast into the dirt and scorned like the plebs they are.0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
The first step is to see what addons provide in PC and to try to emulate that level of accessibility with game design... Not half-ass it and offload it to 3rd parties.
Modern games don't do that. They tend to go with a minimalistic UI as I explained earlier.- Lower development costs
- Because people like (and MMO players in particular) expect to be able to customise their UI
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »No. I think we need to champion your cause. Addons should provide this functionality. And those not willing or knowledgeable enough should be cast into the dirt and scorned like the plebs they are.
Depends how you define functional. Of the two examples I gave, Extended Journal is just a QoL tracker of things you can already see in game, just in a more convenient package. Combat Alerts is simply replacing the default Combat Tips in a format I can see better, but that might not be true for everyone. i.e. deciding what is functional is subjective.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
where have i said if i want to use or not use ive just stated what its use does and that its mandatory and the violations it has .. so this aint about i dont want it so nobody should this is 100% about the issues this add-on brings to the game and its violation of rules set forth by zos
when i tried to show its violation of automation i was only asking that part be moved into a system that player must interact with at time of change 1 action or 60 a action needs to be done for something to be used
now with taking these violstions removing its use in pvp , leaderboard activities and scored content would bring it in line and take the disadvantages it makes awayEdited by heimdall14_9 on 12 May 2026 05:14Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭heimdall14_9 wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
where have i said if i want to use or not use ive just stated what its use does and that its mandatory and the violations it has .. so this aint about i dont want it so nobody should this is 100% about the issues this add-on brings to the game and its violation of rules set forth by zos
It doesn't violate the terms. The terms you quoted says "burden". It can be argued that the addon confers an "advantage", but that is by definition not the same as a "burden".
Neither is it an exploit - being that is the ability to do something that is not intended. ZOS wrote and gave access to the API, meaning it is not beyond their intention.
And lastly, it is not abuse as that is referring to things like hacking the server to alter scores.
Edit: TyposEdited by Gabriel_H on 12 May 2026 05:14PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
The first step is to see what addons provide in PC and to try to emulate that level of accessibility with game design... Not half-ass it and offload it to 3rd parties.
Modern games don't do that. They tend to go with a minimalistic UI as I explained earlier.- Lower development costs
- Because people like (and MMO players in particular) expect to be able to customise their UI
Depending on copyright they may be able to lift code, ideally in a PR positive and time sensitive way.
Default off options.Avran_Sylt wrote: »No. I think we need to champion your cause. Addons should provide this functionality. And those not willing or knowledgeable enough should be cast into the dirt and scorned like the plebs they are.
Depends how you define functional. Of the two examples I gave, Extended Journal is just a QoL tracker of things you can already see in game, just in a more convenient package. Combat Alerts is simply replacing the default Combat Tips in a format I can see better, but that might not be true for everyone. i.e. deciding what is functional is subjective.
Functional is subjective. That it is in either way functionality superior is not. (especially with options)Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
Well, addons, and subclassing, are a thing. Are they gonna half-ass it? We'll see. (Probably)Edited by Avran_Sylt on 12 May 2026 05:170 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭heimdall14_9 wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
where have i said if i want to use or not use ive just stated what its use does and that its mandatory and the violations it has .. so this aint about i dont want it so nobody should this is 100% about the issues this add-on brings to the game and its violation of rules set forth by zos
It doesn't violate the terms. The terms you quoted says "burden". It can be argued that the addon confers an "advantage", but that is by definition not the same as a "burden".
Neither is it an exploit - being that is the ability to do something that is not intended. ZOS wrote and gave access to the API, meaning it is not beyond their intention.
And lastly, it is not abuse as that is referring to things like hacking the server to alter scores.
Edit: Typos
once you let it into leaderboards and scoring it become a burden , that one must have add-on to get over as nothing in the game can do its unique functions to give back its TIME SAVED in a SPEED RUN 2.5 seconds with add-on V 30+ seconds manually becomes a big burden to beat if you want to push score runs and zos is pushing out more and more content where it becomes necessary to switch your gear sets and making each new SPEED RUN faster than the times before due to speed other content has been done with the use of add-onEdited by heimdall14_9 on 12 May 2026 05:41Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
The first step is to see what addons provide in PC and to try to emulate that level of accessibility with game design... Not half-ass it and offload it to 3rd parties.
Modern games don't do that. They tend to go with a minimalistic UI as I explained earlier.- Lower development costs
- Because people like (and MMO players in particular) expect to be able to customise their UI
Depending on copyright they may be able to lift code, ideally in a PR positive and time sensitive way.
Default off options.Avran_Sylt wrote: »No. I think we need to champion your cause. Addons should provide this functionality. And those not willing or knowledgeable enough should be cast into the dirt and scorned like the plebs they are.
Depends how you define functional. Of the two examples I gave, Extended Journal is just a QoL tracker of things you can already see in game, just in a more convenient package. Combat Alerts is simply replacing the default Combat Tips in a format I can see better, but that might not be true for everyone. i.e. deciding what is functional is subjective.
Functional is subjective. That it is in either way functionality superior is not. (especially with options)Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
Well, addons, and subclassing, are a thing.
ZOS own the copyright. The effectively own all addon code, but at the same time also shield themselves from any liability should said code cause issues. It's entirely a PR thing to bung addon writers money to use the code they wrote.
Functional or functionally superior are both subjective in this instance, as most addons are primarily cosmetic in nature altering the view generated by ZOS' underlying code.
Yeah, but neither are actually needed to complete the content. People choose the path of least resistance. ZOS can try to steer that path which is why cycles of buff/nerf/buff/nerf happen.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
On console, that is not true. PS5 users can use add-ons and PS4 ones cannot. Same with XBOX. I don't think the add-on in question is a problem but I wanted to throw in as a reminder as it's untrue for 2/3 servers. OP plays on console so that is not an unrealistic scenario here.
Aware, but in the OPs case he's already stated he plays on PS5/PC
That doesn't mean his whole team does or his friends. Personally, I'm not in this situation but it's a thing on consoles and it's normal for that to impact the opinion of console users.
I actually didn't realize just how useful add-ons truly were until they came to PS5. I felt like I had to get them once they did but I find them to a great thing
Seems to be a personal complaint rather than a group one. Besides, it's also worth noting that cross-play is coming, the first step for that was giving newer consoles access to addons. They'll have to do the same for older consoles at some point, or just drop older gen consoles for cross-play to succeed.
The first step is to see what addons provide in PC and to try to emulate that level of accessibility with game design... Not half-ass it and offload it to 3rd parties.
Modern games don't do that. They tend to go with a minimalistic UI as I explained earlier.- Lower development costs
- Because people like (and MMO players in particular) expect to be able to customise their UI
Depending on copyright they may be able to lift code, ideally in a PR positive and time sensitive way.
Default off options.Avran_Sylt wrote: »No. I think we need to champion your cause. Addons should provide this functionality. And those not willing or knowledgeable enough should be cast into the dirt and scorned like the plebs they are.
Depends how you define functional. Of the two examples I gave, Extended Journal is just a QoL tracker of things you can already see in game, just in a more convenient package. Combat Alerts is simply replacing the default Combat Tips in a format I can see better, but that might not be true for everyone. i.e. deciding what is functional is subjective.
Functional is subjective. That it is in either way functionality superior is not. (especially with options)Avran_Sylt wrote: »heimdall14_9 wrote: »EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means
YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.
If everyone had to use the Arcanists beam to be competitive, would you say "Alright, I'm convinced this is A OK"?
For one thing, ZOS have demonstrated this isn't what they intended or wanted, and for another it's not necessary to complete the content. It's a choice people make (or RLs impose). That isn't remotely the same as someone saying 'I don't want to use an addon, so nobody should be able to use it.'
Well, addons, and subclassing, are a thing.
ZOS own the copyright. The effectively own all addon code, but at the same time also shield themselves from any liability should said code cause issues. It's entirely a PR thing to bung addon writers money to use the code they wrote.
Functional or functionally superior are both subjective in this instance, as most addons are primarily cosmetic in nature altering the view generated by ZOS' underlying code.
Yeah, but neither are actually needed to complete the content. People choose the path of least resistance. ZOS can try to steer that path which is why cycles of buff/nerf/buff/nerf happen.
I've worked front-end.
Was QA on a website for a fortune 500 company (#buzzword #burnout).
PR to "bung"le(?) creator... Managerial to reduce workload via asset "PR bungle"... Workhours to scrub it (prioritizing invested employee recommendation initially if managers sources from ground up).
WCAG would like to disagree with you on accessibility standards especially if your target audience was literally DEAF.
PEOPLE CHOOSE THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE. ZOS CAN, or 3RD PARTIES CAN. (regarding addons at least)0 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭why is there another discussion on whether or not time saving add-ons are allowed?
miaow this is my forum signature! my name is Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation EU is my primary server.
LunaFloraBlossom on PlayStation 5 and PC.
my main character is a Bosmer Warden named Greehnhart in-game, Greenie Florahart in full.
all characters on PS EU:- Luna Blossom, Bosmer Dragonknight.
- Dotty Greehnhart, Bosmer Sorcerer.
- Lía Greehnhart, Khajiit Nightblade.
- Lady Greehnhart, Altmer Templar. Lady is her name and title.
- Holly Blossom, Altmer Sorcerer.
- Sally Jadehart, Argonian Nightblade. Like a green salamander.
- Dorothy Pizzalover, Orc Warden. add pizzas to the game please.
- Greehnhart, Bosmer Warden.
- Lúcia Azurehart, imperial Necromancer. Azureblight, she has a Maarselok outfit.
- Bunny Rubyhart, Dunmer Nightblade.
- Wisteria Antheia, Khajiit Templar. blue hair like the wisteria.
- Cynthia Turquesa, Breton Warden.
- Rubyhart, Bosmer Nightblade.
- Hestia Rubyhart, Dunmer Dragonknight.
- Aurelia Cherryhart, Altmer Warden. Spriggan.
- Aurora Honey, Redguard Templar. Meridian cultist.
- Speaks-With-Blossom, Argonian Warden.
- Lulu Nightshade, Nord Necromancer.
- Lunetta Gleamblossom, Bosmer Arcanist. Ohmes Khajiit.
- Dianna Hyacinth, Altmer Arcanist. Maormer, water hyacinth.5 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭why is there another discussion on whether or not time saving add-ons are allowed?
this aint about time saving add-ons being allowed this is about how a add-on is braking add-on terms and CoC
Add-on Terms of Use 1 (iii) undue or unfair burden to the Game, its Services, including customer service support, and/or to other users.
Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game
Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wizard's Wardrobe has been available for years.
why would zos leave it alone if it truly breaks their rules?
miaow this is my forum signature! my name is Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation EU is my primary server.
LunaFloraBlossom on PlayStation 5 and PC.
my main character is a Bosmer Warden named Greehnhart in-game, Greenie Florahart in full.
all characters on PS EU:- Luna Blossom, Bosmer Dragonknight.
- Dotty Greehnhart, Bosmer Sorcerer.
- Lía Greehnhart, Khajiit Nightblade.
- Lady Greehnhart, Altmer Templar. Lady is her name and title.
- Holly Blossom, Altmer Sorcerer.
- Sally Jadehart, Argonian Nightblade. Like a green salamander.
- Dorothy Pizzalover, Orc Warden. add pizzas to the game please.
- Greehnhart, Bosmer Warden.
- Lúcia Azurehart, imperial Necromancer. Azureblight, she has a Maarselok outfit.
- Bunny Rubyhart, Dunmer Nightblade.
- Wisteria Antheia, Khajiit Templar. blue hair like the wisteria.
- Cynthia Turquesa, Breton Warden.
- Rubyhart, Bosmer Nightblade.
- Hestia Rubyhart, Dunmer Dragonknight.
- Aurelia Cherryhart, Altmer Warden. Spriggan.
- Aurora Honey, Redguard Templar. Meridian cultist.
- Speaks-With-Blossom, Argonian Warden.
- Lulu Nightshade, Nord Necromancer.
- Lunetta Gleamblossom, Bosmer Arcanist. Ohmes Khajiit.
- Dianna Hyacinth, Altmer Arcanist. Maormer, water hyacinth.5 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭why is there another discussion on whether or not time saving add-ons are allowed?
In PvP? Where every second counts? In the PvE economy, where time is money? In leaderboards, where you're scored on clear time?
TBH, I'm glad we don't have a global trade hub. I just use Tamriel Trade Center.0 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭Wizard's Wardrobe has been available for years.
why would zos leave it alone if it truly breaks their rules?
for starters it was only available for PC where add-ons use is encouraged over national game play , 2nd popularity of add-on , 3rd personal connections to add-on developer , being a zos employee, 4th zos lack of enforcement of rules set forth to ALL PLAYES in favor of a few
thats my guesses why zos has let this go for so long again these are just guesses due to information others has said , zos lack of doing anything about the numerous TOS/ADD-ON TERMS/COC players i myself has shown zos this add-on violate or borders the lines ofEdited by heimdall14_9 on 12 May 2026 06:25Nordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As part of the ongoing Services provided to You, ZOS will make available an application programming interface (the "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content, including user-generated Content ("UGC"), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for The Elder Scrolls® Online software-as-a-service product purchased by You (the "Game").
It is ZOS's sole discretion if an add-on violated the COC. This add-on has been allowed to stand for years. While ZOS does not endorse or officially support any add-on and reserves the right to disable one at anytime in its sole discretion, it can and will disable an add-on if it decides it's unfair. Instead of disabling the Wardrobe, they created similar functionality base game with the Armory Assistant. Therefore, we can conclude that this add-on does not violate the COC regardless if you wish they should. Add-ons are allowed to enhance the user experience.
Trying to argue that it violates the tos or that add-ons that provide accessibility options to players is unfair are both poor arguments that undermines the broader idea that there is not parity between those who can use them and those who cannot.
You'd be better served arguing for more things to be made better base game than such arguments imoEdited by spartaxoxo on 12 May 2026 06:234 -
heimdall14_9✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »As part of the ongoing Services provided to You, ZOS will make available an application programming interface (the "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content, including user-generated Content ("UGC"), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for The Elder Scrolls® Online software-as-a-service product purchased by You (the "Game").
It is ZOS's sole discretion if an add-on violated the COC. This add-on has been allowed to stand for years. While ZOS does not endorse or officially support any add-on and reserves the right to disable one at anytime in its sole discretion, it can and will disable an add-on if it decides it's unfair. Instead of disabling the Wardrobe, they created similar functionality base game with the Armory Assistant. Therefore, we can conclude that this add-on does not violate the COC regardless if you wish they should. Add-ons are allowed to enhance the user experience.
Trying to argue that it violates the tos or that add-ons that provide accessibility options to players is unfair are both poor arguments that undermines the broader idea that there is not parity between those who can use them and those who cannot.
You'd be better served arguing for more things to be made better base game than such arguments imo
you know i once was told id be better off not fighting something , but after getting 6 1/2 years and not life i was 100% glad i had fought for what i felt right than to give up id still be behind bars had i notNordic-Knights (PSN)/Sir-A-Crowley (PSN)/Sir_Crowley ( PC) 16 account holder !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19x emperor , 99% full game all vet HM SR ND ( U46) release day ESO VET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ww add-on takes the integrity of the GAME away0 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭Gear swapping addons have been a part of the game on PC for almost 10 yrs at this point.
Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, the judge here should be ZoS, and by their lack of action despite the knowledge of broad common use, by them exposing and maintaining the api that allows this to happen, and them supporting stream team members who have actively used demonstrates this is not viewed as a problem by the only people that actually matter.
I don't generally use them but will do if asked, and don't begrudge those that do use them. It doesn't change my acheivements in game. When I've missed speedruns by a few seconds in the past, my mind doesn't go to, ooh I should have used WW. No, it goes to, with this group with this comp how can we 'git gud' to shave those seconds off.4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭heimdall14_9 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »As part of the ongoing Services provided to You, ZOS will make available an application programming interface (the "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content, including user-generated Content ("UGC"), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for The Elder Scrolls® Online software-as-a-service product purchased by You (the "Game").
It is ZOS's sole discretion if an add-on violated the COC. This add-on has been allowed to stand for years. While ZOS does not endorse or officially support any add-on and reserves the right to disable one at anytime in its sole discretion, it can and will disable an add-on if it decides it's unfair. Instead of disabling the Wardrobe, they created similar functionality base game with the Armory Assistant. Therefore, we can conclude that this add-on does not violate the COC regardless if you wish they should. Add-ons are allowed to enhance the user experience.
Trying to argue that it violates the tos or that add-ons that provide accessibility options to players is unfair are both poor arguments that undermines the broader idea that there is not parity between those who can use them and those who cannot.
You'd be better served arguing for more things to be made better base game than such arguments imo
you know i once was told id be better off not fighting something , but after getting 6 1/2 years and not life i was 100% glad i had fought for what i felt right than to give up id still be behind bars had i not
I'm not telling you not to fight for parity. I'm just saying that you need to consider how you go about it. Ultimately, you want to make arguments that will convince players and developers this is something worth addressing.
This is ZOS's property. I make the rules about what can and cannot be done on my property. They do the same (within the reasonable confines of the law in various regions). So it's not a great argument.
I think your cause of making add-ons feel less mandatory is a good one. WoW just made significant changes to its game to accomplish the same. But, trying to get this particular add-on banned just seems like you're missing the forest for the tree imo.Edited by spartaxoxo on 12 May 2026 06:492