Make Pyrebrand crit again

s3dulo · May 5

When Pyrebrand first came out, it was definitely a little OP and needed some tuning but the subsequent nerf was far too heavy handed. It nearly killed the set. -16% damage was rough but the real injustice was treating it like oblivion damage and taking away it's ability to crit. I don't have all the sets and abilities memorized but I can't think of another example of a DoT that can't crit besides oblivion damage. In addition to the Dot, I really like the heavy attack Pyreburst feature of this set. It's such a unique idea and very fitting for a DK but without the ability to crit it all just feels so flat and underwhelming.

So it's time to let Pyrebrand crit once more. I don't think that asking for this proc set to crit like every other proc set (A few even stronger than Pyrebrand's DPS potential) is asking too much.

Luneca · May 5

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 5

Pyrebrand cannot crit because it has a % scaling modifier.

I can't think of another example of a DoT that can't crit besides oblivion damage.

Any set with a % scaling modifier works like this. To list a few:

Pyrebrand; scales on how many dots the target has applied to them.

Plaguebreak; the explosion scales on how many targets are hit (neither the DoT nor the burst can crit, despite only the explosion scaling).

Maarselok; scales based on how many negative effects the target has on them

Zaan; each tick scales a % higher than the last

Vateshran Destruction Staff; each tick scales a % higher than the last

There are a few others I believe as well. This is the case because allowing the % scaling sets to crit would cause their damage to scale extremely high due to multiplicative interactions.

Wuuffyy · May 5

=

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

What happens if/when they nerf siege though?

Also, OP they're going to come for you. This was the ultimate sin.

I don't think Pyrebrand should crit but it also shouldn't be 'on monster'd either so there's that.

xylena · May 5

Bold move asking for buffs to the S-Tier proc set exclusive to the S-Tier class.

s3dulo · May 5

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pyrebrand cannot crit because it has a % scaling modifier.

I can't think of another example of a DoT that can't crit besides oblivion damage.

Any set with a % scaling modifier works like this. To list a few:

Pyrebrand; scales on how many dots the target has applied to them.

Plaguebreak; the explosion scales on how many targets are hit (neither the DoT nor the burst can crit, despite only the explosion scaling).

Maarselok; scales based on how many negative effects the target has on them

Zaan; each tick scales a % higher than the last

Vateshran Destruction Staff; each tick scales a % higher than the last

There are a few others I believe as well. This is the case because allowing the % scaling sets to crit would cause their damage to scale extremely high due to multiplicative interactions.

Pyreburst might have a % scaling modifier but the actual light attack DoT does not. And the Pyreburst is pretty weak regardless.

Alchimiste1 · May 5

No ty

s3dulo · May 5

xylena wrote: »

Bold move asking for buffs to the S-Tier proc set exclusive to the S-Tier class.

S Tire proc set is not accurate at all. It's just OK and has fallen off since the DK refresh. I stopped using it in favor of much more effective sets and I never see it in my damage recap or CMX anymore. Maybe it will get picked up again since it can proc wildfire next patch.......maybe. Even so, being able to crit still wouldn't give it the DPS potential of Null Arca

s3dulo · May 5

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 5

s3dulo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pyrebrand cannot crit because it has a % scaling modifier.

I can't think of another example of a DoT that can't crit besides oblivion damage.

Any set with a % scaling modifier works like this. To list a few:

Pyrebrand; scales on how many dots the target has applied to them.

Plaguebreak; the explosion scales on how many targets are hit (neither the DoT nor the burst can crit, despite only the explosion scaling).

Maarselok; scales based on how many negative effects the target has on them

Zaan; each tick scales a % higher than the last

Vateshran Destruction Staff; each tick scales a % higher than the last

There are a few others I believe as well. This is the case because allowing the % scaling sets to crit would cause their damage to scale extremely high due to multiplicative interactions.

Pyreburst might have a % scaling modifier but the actual light attack DoT does not. And the Pyreburst is pretty weak regardless.

Yes, but like Plaguebreak, since 1 portion has a scaling modifier, neither portion can crit.

s3dulo · May 5

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pyrebrand cannot crit because it has a % scaling modifier.

I can't think of another example of a DoT that can't crit besides oblivion damage.

Any set with a % scaling modifier works like this. To list a few:

Pyrebrand; scales on how many dots the target has applied to them.

Plaguebreak; the explosion scales on how many targets are hit (neither the DoT nor the burst can crit, despite only the explosion scaling).

Maarselok; scales based on how many negative effects the target has on them

Zaan; each tick scales a % higher than the last

Vateshran Destruction Staff; each tick scales a % higher than the last

There are a few others I believe as well. This is the case because allowing the % scaling sets to crit would cause their damage to scale extremely high due to multiplicative interactions.

Pyreburst might have a % scaling modifier but the actual light attack DoT does not. And the Pyreburst is pretty weak regardless.

Yes, but like Plaguebreak, since 1 portion has a scaling modifier, neither portion can crit.

A fully-charged heavy attack pyreburst with loads of DoTs is still weak and not worth doing. I've tried it a lot in PVP and it's weak and useless. That's what I'm asking for. Take a weak and useless aspect of a set and make it better. Let it crit. People acting like this would be game breaking. It will make an OK set a little stronger. I'm strongly in favor of making sets more useful and remove them from the vast pile of mediocre to absolutely useless sets.

Honestly weird to see pushback against that. Name your favorite class.....I'm in favor of buffing all class sets related to that class because 1. I'm not afraid to compete against it 2. More variety and options are better.

As long as things are still competitive, it's not a problem.

Militan1404 · May 5

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

s3dulo · May 5

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

Militan1404 · May 5

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Pinktraining · May 6

We're in an awkward period. Before all classes are refreshed, it's difficult to comment on whether a particular class or set is too powerful, or whether there are other class/set builds that can counteract its strength. I think we'll ultimately have to wait until all classes are refreshed; hopefully, it won't be too long...

Luneca · May 6

Pinktraining wrote: »

We're in an awkward period. Before all classes are refreshed, it's difficult to comment on whether a particular class or set is too powerful, or whether there are other class/set builds that can counteract its strength. I think we'll ultimately have to wait until all classes are refreshed; hopefully, it won't be too long...

I don't think it is difficult to comment when some classes aren't getting any attention for over a year from now and will continue to be subpar post-masteries.

s3dulo · May 6

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

xylena · May 6

DK is fine, but buffing Pyrebrand further would break it.

If someday DK needs buffs again, do it through its skills, not through freakin proc sets.

Prionyx · May 6

No

Militan1404 · May 6

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

BattleAxe · May 7

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Militan1404 · May 7

BattleAxe wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Becouse its breaking class identity for once, what they trying to fix becouse of sub-classing destroyed class identity not breaking it even more. DKs identity is pressure, and being tanky, lacks burst, mobility, take down players by tiering them down and outlasting them. Not whatever they become now, master of everything and i am lucky if a fight last longer then 10sec.

Why is that not fair? You mean its its fair to buff one class to the moon while the other classes have to wait months and years? Yeah that sound fair.. and other classes is put in line with DK where is class identity then? Then we all are just a Jack of all trades running around in different skins beeing masters of everything and identity would be dead and ZOS once again messed up the one thing they where trying to fix.

And the the DK aint balanced within him self, when you compare the skills DK som are lacklusting while some are so stacked that it makes a no brainer to choose skills. The other is that as tanky as DKs are now they are only tanky for other players not being a DK as you easily could one shoot DK when being a DK your self and you are not even needing the new fancy mytich to do that. So DKs damage outperform its defensive capabilities by a long shot.

BattleAxe · May 7

Militan1404 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Becouse its breaking class identity for once, what they trying to fix becouse of sub-classing destroyed class identity not breaking it even more. DKs identity is pressure, and being tanky, lacks burst, mobility, take down players by tiering them down and outlasting them. Not whatever they become now, master of everything and i am lucky if a fight last longer then 10sec.

Why is that not fair? You mean its its fair to buff one class to the moon while the other classes have to wait months and years? Yeah that sound fair.. and other classes is put in line with DK where is class identity then? Then we all are just a Jack of all trades running around in different skins beeing masters of everything and identity would be dead and ZOS once again messed up the one thing they where trying to fix.

And the the DK aint balanced within him self, when you compare the skills DK som are lacklusting while some are so stacked that it makes a no brainer to choose skills. The other is that as tanky as DKs are now they are only tanky for other players not being a DK as you easily could one shoot DK when being a DK your self and you are not even needing the new fancy mytich to do that. So DKs damage outperform its defensive capabilities by a long shot.

So first paragraph you’d rather dks hit like a wet noodle but stack dots? Which can easily be purged. Also dks go back to only being good for tanking? Also what do you define as pressure? Most PvP games I’ve played pressure is forcing the opponent on the defense and pushing their location which is either outright rolling over them or forcing them to give ground which dk is accomplishing.

Would you compare a freshly picked ripe apple to one that’s been sitting on a shelf for days? Obviously the fresh picked ripe apple will be better. Also you think it’s easy to code and alter the game so easily when in reality it takes time. What this means is by doing one class at a time they can give each class a more complete refresh versus what we got in the past only hitting small points on each class which solves little to nothing. Where is identity then when all classes are up to the dk standard? Well in the class itself a dk skills are nothing like any of the other classes. Just like a nightblades skills aren’t the same as a templars. Identity won’t be dead even when all classes are balanced. Everyone will play out their preferred classes power fantasy and not feel left behind because another class is by far the superior option.

Dk isn’t balance within itself. What!? At most you have 10 skill slots you can use with 2 ultimates. A damage dealer doesn’t need a lot of heals just as a tank doesn’t need a lot of damage skills. So obviously choices need to be made in selecting skills to accomplish a chosen role. Also as you state dks are only tanky against non dk players may I remind you dk is only class that has been reworked currently so again this is comparing fresh apple to old apples.

s3dulo · May 7

Militan1404 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Becouse its breaking class identity for once, what they trying to fix becouse of sub-classing destroyed class identity not breaking it even more. DKs identity is pressure, and being tanky, lacks burst, mobility, take down players by tiering them down and outlasting them. Not whatever they become now, master of everything and i am lucky if a fight last longer then 10sec.

Why is that not fair? You mean its its fair to buff one class to the moon while the other classes have to wait months and years? Yeah that sound fair.. and other classes is put in line with DK where is class identity then? Then we all are just a Jack of all trades running around in different skins beeing masters of everything and identity would be dead and ZOS once again messed up the one thing they where trying to fix.

And the the DK aint balanced within him self, when you compare the skills DK som are lacklusting while some are so stacked that it makes a no brainer to choose skills. The other is that as tanky as DKs are now they are only tanky for other players not being a DK as you easily could one shoot DK when being a DK your self and you are not even needing the new fancy mytich to do that. So DKs damage outperform its defensive capabilities by a long shot.

I emboldened what I think the issue is here. Just get better at PVP, my guy. Nothing changed for me between pre-subclass, to subclass, to DK refresh. Nothing changed except my own overall skills grew. I can hang in fights against almost any build. And when I encounter a fight where I felt I had no chance, I look at my CMX and I either see Relequen or Null Arca. That still holds today with the new DK. I got melted just last week by someone running releq, vaet staff, and maarselok. It was ridiculous. I just laughed and thought I would run that too if I had the gear.

I've encountered several very skilled sorc mains and nightblades that were in the fight the whole time and I stalemated and even lost a few times. Sorc damage right now, in the right hands, can be extremely tough to deal with and pinning down a good sorc for a burst who is timing the streak stun at the end of every CC immunity is a nightmare. After the class masteries come out, sorc might just be the new meta.

If you feel that defeated over DK then just post your build and ask for help. At the highest levels of the game there are a few builds and skill class combos that work and the rest just don't.

I don't even run pure DK right now. I subclass and use 2 DK skill lines and I have absolutely destroyed a number of pure DKs. Pure DK is strong but it's definitely not stronger than every subclass combo.

Alchimiste1 · May 7

@s3dulo nothing changed for you maybe.

PvP as a whole changed drastically since the introduction to multiclassing. And not for the better. I’m not going to advocate for a pure dk nerf because that’ll put us right back to subclassing but there is no way I’ll advocate for something like pyre to get buffed when current DK absolutely should not get and further power.
The other guy wasn’t wrong. Best burst, best sustain, tanky , heals , mobility it’s got it all.

Revisit asking for any dk buffs until after all the other classes get a rework.

s3dulo · May 7

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@s3dulo nothing changed for you maybe.

PvP as a whole changed drastically since the introduction to multiclassing. And not for the better. I’m not going to advocate for a pure dk nerf because that’ll put us right back to subclassing but there is no way I’ll advocate for something like pyre to get buffed when current DK absolutely should not get and further power.
The other guy wasn’t wrong. Best burst, best sustain, tanky , heals , mobility it’s got it all.

Revisit asking for any dk buffs until after all the other classes get a rework.

When I said nothing changed for me I meant that I wasn't left with a PVP space that I couldn't compete in. Good players find a way. Just because a build that used to work really well in most any situation suddenly doesn't work anymore doesn't mean something is broken, it means the game changed and you should adapt. I used to main a max mag sorc. It was fun until a lot of key things about the build go nerfed. So it was back to the drawing board. I cannot understand people complaining about DK being too strong. Just get better at the game.

Subclassing is still stronger than pure DK. It can compete but subclassing still edges it out. Heart of Flame is the best sustain in the game for sure. The burst is pretty good but it's arguable that it's the best in the game. It's good at a lot of things but that was the point of the class refresh. Give a class everything it needs so you aren't at a disadvantage against subclassing. DK still is not very mobile. The fact that it has sustain and is tanky makes up for the lack of mobility. Sorc is still the undisputed King of mobility and it's not even close. if a Sorc doesn't want to fight a DK at melee range, there isn't much to be done about it.

Just wait, next patch all of the mediocre players will be whining and complaining about pure sorcs. DK meta was only ever going to be a thing for a few months.

Alchimiste1 · May 7

s3dulo wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@s3dulo nothing changed for you maybe.

PvP as a whole changed drastically since the introduction to multiclassing. And not for the better. I’m not going to advocate for a pure dk nerf because that’ll put us right back to subclassing but there is no way I’ll advocate for something like pyre to get buffed when current DK absolutely should not get and further power.
The other guy wasn’t wrong. Best burst, best sustain, tanky , heals , mobility it’s got it all.

Revisit asking for any dk buffs until after all the other classes get a rework.

When I said nothing changed for me I meant that I wasn't left with a PVP space that I couldn't compete in. Good players find a way. Just because a build that used to work really well in most any situation suddenly doesn't work anymore doesn't mean something is broken, it means the game changed and you should adapt. I used to main a max mag sorc. It was fun until a lot of key things about the build go nerfed. So it was back to the drawing board. I cannot understand people complaining about DK being too strong. Just get better at the game.

Subclassing is still stronger than pure DK. It can compete but subclassing still edges it out. Heart of Flame is the best sustain in the game for sure. The burst is pretty good but it's arguable that it's the best in the game. It's good at a lot of things but that was the point of the class refresh. Give a class everything it needs so you aren't at a disadvantage against subclassing. DK still is not very mobile. The fact that it has sustain and is tanky makes up for the lack of mobility. Sorc is still the undisputed King of mobility and it's not even close. if a Sorc doesn't want to fight a DK at melee range, there isn't much to be done about it.

Just wait, next patch all of the mediocre players will be whining and complaining about pure sorcs. DK meta was only ever going to be a thing for a few months.

It has the best burst. Pure dk is better than the vast majority of subclassing build and is comparable to the top subclassing builds. It doesn't get outshined. DK is mobile now it's just not sorc mobile but arguably nothing else should be as that was their niche. Dealing with range damage isn't a dk exclusive, every patch that's had a magsorc meta has been rough but at least dk has wings.

I'm just saying dk is in a great spot rn. 0 reason to buff it more by giving it an even stronger class exclusive set.

Militan1404 · 3:06AM

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Becouse its breaking class identity for once, what they trying to fix becouse of sub-classing destroyed class identity not breaking it even more. DKs identity is pressure, and being tanky, lacks burst, mobility, take down players by tiering them down and outlasting them. Not whatever they become now, master of everything and i am lucky if a fight last longer then 10sec.

Why is that not fair? You mean its its fair to buff one class to the moon while the other classes have to wait months and years? Yeah that sound fair.. and other classes is put in line with DK where is class identity then? Then we all are just a Jack of all trades running around in different skins beeing masters of everything and identity would be dead and ZOS once again messed up the one thing they where trying to fix.

And the the DK aint balanced within him self, when you compare the skills DK som are lacklusting while some are so stacked that it makes a no brainer to choose skills. The other is that as tanky as DKs are now they are only tanky for other players not being a DK as you easily could one shoot DK when being a DK your self and you are not even needing the new fancy mytich to do that. So DKs damage outperform its defensive capabilities by a long shot.

I emboldened what I think the issue is here. Just get better at PVP, my guy. Nothing changed for me between pre-subclass, to subclass, to DK refresh. Nothing changed except my own overall skills grew. I can hang in fights against almost any build. And when I encounter a fight where I felt I had no chance, I look at my CMX and I either see Relequen or Null Arca. That still holds today with the new DK. I got melted just last week by someone running releq, vaet staff, and maarselok. It was ridiculous. I just laughed and thought I would run that too if I had the gear.

I've encountered several very skilled sorc mains and nightblades that were in the fight the whole time and I stalemated and even lost a few times. Sorc damage right now, in the right hands, can be extremely tough to deal with and pinning down a good sorc for a burst who is timing the streak stun at the end of every CC immunity is a nightmare. After the class masteries come out, sorc might just be the new meta.

If you feel that defeated over DK then just post your build and ask for help. At the highest levels of the game there are a few builds and skill class combos that work and the rest just don't.

I don't even run pure DK right now. I subclass and use 2 DK skill lines and I have absolutely destroyed a number of pure DKs. Pure DK is strong but it's definitely not stronger than every subclass combo.

If you dont notice any difference maybe you should learn the game becouse its a big difference, mathematically its not possible for the other classes to compete with DK. But as i said i play DK and has for 10 years also so il be fine but i dont like to be carried by the class. If you are a bad player that beat a good player while on a DK you still a bad player becouse you just got carried and kind takes away the thrill. And it kind of funny how you are trying to pose ur self as a pvp god while trying to defend your class DK, even here asking for a pyrebrand buff like DK arent cheesy enough right now as it is. I tell you what, lets wait for 10years before they balance shatterd path becouse maybe thats the new standard for what sets should be like, so lets just wait years and see if they balance the rest first right? Becouse thats how stupid your argument is.

Dracane · 1:36PM

s3dulo wrote: »

if a Sorc doesn't want to fight a DK at melee range, there isn't much to be done about it.

Just wait, next patch all of the mediocre players will be whining and complaining about pure sorcs. DK meta was only ever going to be a thing for a few months.

Then I will tell them to slot and use Wings and look at how much those Sorcs can do. Complaining about Sorcs as a DK, who can mitigate 50% of their most important damage, is adventurous. And chains have a longer range than Streak and far lower a cost. I see many DKs use this to great effect to counter ranged classes on top of having 50% damage mitigation against half the skills in the game.

DK hard counters Sorc in every way, and Warden is right up there as well with Shimmering Shield being an even crazier version of wings (minus the 4 pieces of utility DK wings have) So once the Warden rework comes, Sorcs will have to compete with their 2 biggest hard counters, and there is nothing you can do unless the enemy DK or Warden somehow lags out and forgets to reapply their immortality button.

s3dulo · 2:27PM

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.

When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.

I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.

The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.

Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.

Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.

What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.

Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.

No DK is not fine at all, and if you think so i are living in denial. Right now DK has no drawbacks, they have best burst, pressure, infinity sustain, tanky, great heals and mobility all at once. Class mastery wont fix that, not even close and each class would still be lacking in some parts. And some classes even have really bad class mastery passives. With sub-classing it was hard to be a pure class but could be done, and i was even playing a pure dk then and was doing fine. No other class should be brought up to the power creep DK is doing right now, its a no skill carry class right now.

Why should dk be brought down? The point of the class refresh/rework is to make pure class on par if not ahead of subclass. Also it’s not very fair to compare dk to every other class currently considering every class will be refreshed most likely by end of next yr.

Becouse its breaking class identity for once, what they trying to fix becouse of sub-classing destroyed class identity not breaking it even more. DKs identity is pressure, and being tanky, lacks burst, mobility, take down players by tiering them down and outlasting them. Not whatever they become now, master of everything and i am lucky if a fight last longer then 10sec.

Why is that not fair? You mean its its fair to buff one class to the moon while the other classes have to wait months and years? Yeah that sound fair.. and other classes is put in line with DK where is class identity then? Then we all are just a Jack of all trades running around in different skins beeing masters of everything and identity would be dead and ZOS once again messed up the one thing they where trying to fix.

And the the DK aint balanced within him self, when you compare the skills DK som are lacklusting while some are so stacked that it makes a no brainer to choose skills. The other is that as tanky as DKs are now they are only tanky for other players not being a DK as you easily could one shoot DK when being a DK your self and you are not even needing the new fancy mytich to do that. So DKs damage outperform its defensive capabilities by a long shot.

I emboldened what I think the issue is here. Just get better at PVP, my guy. Nothing changed for me between pre-subclass, to subclass, to DK refresh. Nothing changed except my own overall skills grew. I can hang in fights against almost any build. And when I encounter a fight where I felt I had no chance, I look at my CMX and I either see Relequen or Null Arca. That still holds today with the new DK. I got melted just last week by someone running releq, vaet staff, and maarselok. It was ridiculous. I just laughed and thought I would run that too if I had the gear.

I've encountered several very skilled sorc mains and nightblades that were in the fight the whole time and I stalemated and even lost a few times. Sorc damage right now, in the right hands, can be extremely tough to deal with and pinning down a good sorc for a burst who is timing the streak stun at the end of every CC immunity is a nightmare. After the class masteries come out, sorc might just be the new meta.

If you feel that defeated over DK then just post your build and ask for help. At the highest levels of the game there are a few builds and skill class combos that work and the rest just don't.

I don't even run pure DK right now. I subclass and use 2 DK skill lines and I have absolutely destroyed a number of pure DKs. Pure DK is strong but it's definitely not stronger than every subclass combo.

If you dont notice any difference maybe you should learn the game becouse its a big difference, mathematically its not possible for the other classes to compete with DK. But as i said i play DK and has for 10 years also so il be fine but i dont like to be carried by the class. If you are a bad player that beat a good player while on a DK you still a bad player becouse you just got carried and kind takes away the thrill.

When I said nothing changed for me I meant that I wasn't left with a PVP space that I couldn't compete in. Good players find a way. Just because a build that used to work really well in most any situation suddenly doesn't work anymore doesn't mean something is broken, it means the game changed and you should adapt. I used to main a max mag sorc. It was fun until a lot of key things about the build got nerfed. So it was back to the drawing board.

YES. DK is a stronger pure class than any other pure class but subclassed builds can still be stronger and pure sorc is still right there. There are pure sorc builds RIGHT NOW that compete just fine against pure DK. I dueled one last night for a full give minutes before we were interrupted and it was very close. But I do agree, some previously mediocre players are being carried by pure DK right now. That will change as soon as update 50 comes out. If you aren't a good player, the new class passives will go a long way into bridging the gap.

And it kind of funny how you are trying to pose ur self as a pvp god while trying to defend your class DK, even here asking for a pyrebrand buff like DK arent cheesy enough right now as it is. I tell you what, lets wait for 10years before they balance shatterd path becouse maybe thats the new standard for what sets should be like, so lets just wait years and see if they balance the rest first right? Becouse thats how stupid your argument is.

Why so you so mad? See that's my point. I'm not even close to a PVP god. I'm just OK, and I'm still not going to whine on the forums about everything needing to be nerfed because I can't win. If I can't beat something or someone, I try to figure out why. I go on the PTS and try stuff out. I go on youtube and see what seasoned players suggest.

They can do whatever they want with Shattered Path. I don't care. I have yet to actually be ganked by it and quite a few have tried. Even when I was in the middle of a duel. In the right hands, its very strong, and when everyone in a zerg has it and is spamming pulse, it's pretty much a wrap but whatever. It's not ruining the game for me.

I still think Pyrebrand should crit but I guess the timing of my ask is really what has you so bent out of shape.

s3dulo · 3:07PM

Dracane wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

if a Sorc doesn't want to fight a DK at melee range, there isn't much to be done about it.

Just wait, next patch all of the mediocre players will be whining and complaining about pure sorcs. DK meta was only ever going to be a thing for a few months.

Then I will tell them to slot and use Wings and look at how much those Sorcs can do. Complaining about Sorcs as a DK, who can mitigate 50% of their most important damage, is adventurous. And chains have a longer range than Streak and far lower a cost. I see many DKs use this to great effect to counter ranged classes on top of having 50% damage mitigation against half the skills in the game.

DK hard counters Sorc in every way, and Warden is right up there as well with Shimmering Shield being an even crazier version of wings (minus the 4 pieces of utility DK wings have) So once the Warden rework comes, Sorcs will have to compete with their 2 biggest hard counters, and there is nothing you can do unless the enemy DK or Warden somehow lags out and forgets to reapply their immortality button.

Where did you get that I was complaining? I'm just point out where sorc is stronger than a DK and that's in mobility. I love the sorc class. I've played many hours as a sorc in Cyro. I'm thrilled that it will be stronger with the class passives and even more thrilled for the coming class refresh. But sorc as a pure class is probably the least disadvantaged against a DK. That's why I see so many subclassed DKs who opt to run storm calling over earthen heart or draconic. Yes Wings is a good counter to a sorc's range damage but it's not practical to keep 100% uptime on that and expect to be offensive enough to beat a sorc. It's only 6 seconds so 100% uptime isn't sustainable unless the DK wants to just turtle defensively and stalemate. Offensively, the DK has to open up at some point. And if the sorc just wants to leave the fight or escape a group of pure DKs. There's no catching him. Chains might have a greater range than streak but a sorc can streak twice in a row. Suddenly out of range.