Maintenance for the week of May 11:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
We will be performing maintenance for patch 12.0.4 on the PTS on Monday at 12:00AM EDT (4:00 UTC).

Let's talk about Werewolf Grimoires (Update 50 and onwards)

Erickson9610
Erickson9610
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Update 50 reworked the Werewolf skill line entirely, making the entire toolkit more cohesive and thematic to the roleplay fantasy of being a savage lycanthrope. The aim of this thread is to discuss the implications of this rework on the potential designs for a future Scribing Grimoire for the Werewolf skill line.
This first part is just basic justification for the existence of a Werewolf Grimoire. Feel free to skip over this section.
Why should Werewolf get a Grimoire?
  1. It would give Werewolf players a 6th skill they can pick from, meaning they will have much more build diversity than before.
  2. It would allow Werewolf players to swap one skill for another, creating an implicit power tradeoff.
  3. It would source additional effects and ability types into Werewolf's toolkit, mitigating inherent problems with the playstyle's locked-down nature.
  4. Werewolf is the only playstyle which cannot use Scribing abilities, due to the strict skill limitation while transformed.
How would a Werewolf Grimoire be justified in the lore?
  1. Scribing is described as a way to customize and specialize both spell-craft and skill-craft. This means a Scribing skill does not need to be magical in nature; it can instead be Martial in nature.
  2. There are several interested parties in the world who would create a Grimoire for werewolves to use. Banner Bearer was created after Scribing was discovered and is recorded as the first new Grimoire. A Werewolf Grimoire could be created some time after Banner Bearer, perhaps by a Reachman or a witch, who would view werewolves in a different light than most.
  3. The physical Grimoire that we Scribe the Scripts and Luminous Ink onto is never used by our characters to know how to use these skills. A werewolf would have no problem remembering how to perform the action of a Werewolf Grimoire, especially if the skill was more martial and savage in nature.
  4. The physical Grimoire does not need to be sold by the Scribing merchant if it is deemed a Criminal Act to do so. Instead, the Grimoire can be sourced through another game system like Antiquities, or through another merchant who would supply Criminal Act Grimoires.

What should a Werewolf Grimoire actually do, and what should be its theme?
The Update 50 Werewolf skills have this general theme:
  • (Ultimate) A transformation into or out of your werewolf form. If you use enough Werewolf skills, you can go on a rampage.
  • A pounce/leap onto your target from a range. In melee range, you slam down with your claws to apply a bleed.
  • A howl which heals and buffs you.
  • A roar which scares/debuffs enemies and buffs allies.
  • A bite attack.
  • A claw swipe attack.
This list is not exhaustive with every function of the skills, but rather this summary is meant to capture the general theme.

The question is, what theme for a 6th Werewolf skill could we possibly get that would fit in with these existing skills? Here's a few different ideas:
  • If the Grimoire was more magical in nature, it would logically make sense to be power derived from Hircine. Just like how Hircine's Bounty invokes the Huntsman's blessing, a Werewolf Grimoire that is more magical in nature would similarly involve Hircine.
    1. My personal favorite idea I've come up with is a ground effect, to play off the name of Hircine's Hunting Grounds. The Scripts used here could do anything from making the area snare enemies, heal/buff allies, deal damage, and so on. The visuals could have flora taken from The Hunting Grounds, with the color changing depending on the focus script used.
    2. Maybe we could get a Grimoire that functions like Shadow Cloak, since we don't get to properly sneak. Invisibility is one way we can be stealthy hunters. Conversely, a skill which makes it easier to pursue fleeing enemies (like a Movement Speed buff and a snare purge) would be another way to stay thematic to the hunting theme.
    3. It may be a stretch, but the Werewolf Behemoth is capable of basic elemental magic. Why not something nature themed that functions like Imbue Weapon?
  • If the Grimoire was more martial in nature, it would need to be something we'd expect a werewolf to be able to do, without overlapping with any of the themes of the other Werewolf skills.
    1. Werewolves can use their sense of smell, but what about their hearing? Maybe the Grimoire could be a utility skill that highlights enemies through walls, like the Detect Life effect when using the Totem of the Hunt ability as a werewolf in TES V: Skyrim. You could pair both senses together to be able to sense just about anything nearby.
    2. We could get a displacement ability (similar to Piercing Javelin or Scatter Shot) which knocks enemies back. This could be themed as us throwing the enemy using our jaws (like that one Slaughter animation) or simply grabbing the enemy and tossing them. Maybe we could just kick the enemy back if we wanted something more inspired by martial arts in the same vein as our "uppercut" bash animation.
    3. We could go back to the origins of Piercing Howl, before it lost the ability to knock the target down. A Werewolf Grimoire could have us shout at the enemy, knocking them to the ground and immobilizing them.
Most of my better ideas from the last time I made a thread like this were realized in the skill line itself this update. I'm just trying to show that there's still potential here for a 6th Werewolf skill in the form of a customizable Grimoire.

What sort of unique effects would make this Grimoire appealing?
Here's a few ideas for various Scripts:

Wayfarer's Mastery (improved functionality of skill line passives)
  • Insatiable Hunger also generates Stamina and Magicka per tick while this ability is slotted.
  • Blood Rage generates x Ultimate once every y seconds when dealing damage while this ability is slotted.
  • (Feral Cruelty) Gain Minor Resolve and gain an additional x% Weapon and Spell Damage while this ability is slotted.
  • (Call of the Hunt) Completely negate the cost of remaining transformed while this ability is slotted.
  • This ability is x% more effective per stack of Blood Hunger. Consumes all stacks of Blood Hunger.
  • This ability generates x stacks of Blood Hunger.
  • This ability generates double Fury.

Class Flourish (unique effects based on your base Class)
Note that Banner Bearer has a different implementation of Class Flourish, so this Werewolf Grimoire can, too!

Certain Class Flourish effects would need to be modified to be useful in Werewolf form, such as Arcanist's "generate a Crux", which in this context could be changed entirely to do something with status effects instead. Sorcerer can get pets with Pack Leader or go without pets with Werewolf Berserker, so a description change there may or may not be desired. Templar Werewolf can only get the Sacred Ground needed for their Class Flourish from using their Class Mastery passives. Necromancer Werewolf can proc all relevant corpse-related effects with Insatiable Hunger, which is (literally) a corpse-consuming ability. The rest of the Class Flourish effects don't require Class abilities and should be fine to use in the Werewolf Grimoire as-is.


And here's a list of buffs and other effects which Werewolf may want to source (not exhaustive):
  • Some form of crossheal (Healing focus script, preferably on an AoE skill)
  • A snare (Hunter's Snare signature script)
  • Minor Resolve (Resolve affix script)
  • Increased movement speed (Expedition affix script, Thief's Swiftness signature script)
  • A snare purge (Crusader's Defiance signature script)
  • Disease Damage put back in the kit (Disease Damage focus script)
  • Ultimate generation (Generate Ultimate focus script, Heroism affix script)
  • A heal over time (Sage's Remedy signature script)
Remember that with 6 skills, we aren't guaranteed the slotted buffs from any of the original 5 Werewolf skills. We're only guaranteed the buffs from the passives (and whichever effects are shared between all morphs of the Werewolf Transformation Ultimate), so buffs given from the Grimoire like Major Resolve (sourced in-kit from the Feral Cruelty passive) should instead offer Minor Resolve. It's okay to offer buffs like Major Savagery from the affix scripts, since it's not guaranteed that we'll be using the morph of Roar that gives it (or that we'll be using Roar or its morphs at all).

The hope with a Werewolf Grimoire in general is to allow us to expand the ways we build for and play Werewolf. Maybe we want to replace Rending Claws for a different kind of skill which buffs our defense. Maybe a Werewolf Grimoire allows us to buff and heal our packmates. It would be interesting trying to figure out which of the original 5 Werewolf abilities to replace to make room for a Werewolf Scribing ability, should we choose to use it. However such a Werewolf Scribing Grimoire is implemented, it should feel as if it was always part of our toolkit.

@ZOS_Kira @ZOS_Erin @ZOS_BrianWheeler
PC/NA — Lone Werewolf

Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak Prowling added in Update 50!
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color) Added in Update 50!, Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    All the non-class skill lines that don't have a grimoire should get one.

    And Undaunted's should be an ultimate
    Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • LunaFlora
    LunaFlora
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    good ideas!
    i also want more Grimoires and Werewolf would definitely benefit from it
    miaow this is my forum signature! my name is Luna ( she/her ).

    🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
    "Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
    🦬🦌🐰

    PlayStation EU is my primary server.
    LunaFloraBlossom on PlayStation 5 and PC.


    my main character is a Bosmer Warden named Greehnhart in-game, Greenie Florahart in full.

    all characters on PS EU:
    - Luna Blossom, Bosmer Dragonknight.
    - Dotty Greehnhart, Bosmer Sorcerer.
    - Lía Greehnhart, Khajiit Nightblade.
    - Lady Greehnhart, Altmer Templar. Lady is her name and title.
    - Holly Blossom, Altmer Sorcerer.
    - Sally Jadehart, Argonian Nightblade. Like a green salamander.
    - Dorothy Pizzalover, Orc Warden. add pizzas to the game please.
    - Greehnhart, Bosmer Warden.
    - Lúcia Azurehart, imperial Necromancer. Azureblight, she has a Maarselok outfit.
    - Bunny Rubyhart, Dunmer Nightblade.
    - Wisteria Antheia, Khajiit Templar. blue hair like the wisteria.
    - Cynthia Turquesa, Breton Warden.
    - Rubyhart, Bosmer Nightblade.
    - Hestia Rubyhart, Dunmer Dragonknight.
    - Aurelia Cherryhart, Altmer Warden. Spriggan.
    - Aurora Honey, Redguard Templar. Meridian cultist.
    - Speaks-With-Blossom, Argonian Warden.
    - Lulu Nightshade, Nord Necromancer.
    - Lunetta Gleamblossom, Bosmer Arcanist. Ohmes Khajiit.
    - Dianna Hyacinth, Altmer Arcanist. Maormer, water hyacinth.
  • Erickson9610
    Erickson9610
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    All the non-class skill lines that don't have a grimoire should get one.

    And Undaunted's should be an ultimate

    It would be interesting to see how a Scribing Ultimate is balanced! The Undaunted line could really use an Ultimate. Presumably it has a synergy effect, just like every other Undaunted skill — I think it would make sense for the synergy to change depending on how the Undaunted Grimoire is scribed.
    LunaFlora wrote: »
    good ideas!
    i also want more Grimoires and Werewolf would definitely benefit from it

    I feel that Werewolf would benefit from it the most, since everyone else at least has access to Wield Soul. A Werewolf Grimoire would be truly unique in that only a Werewolf could use it. Likewise, a Vampire Grimoire would be unique and thematic to a Vampire.
    PC/NA — Lone Werewolf

    Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak Prowling added in Update 50!
    Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color) Added in Update 50!, Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).
Sign In or Register to comment.