You've nerfed the worst class in this PTS
-
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But on PCNA nobody uses incap anymore because it took a backseat to merciless or onslaught being preferred in the combo.
The usual engagement is using your timed skill into surprise attack medium stun with whatever you want for guaranteed damage that GCD. Because the Offbalance stun being off gcd with a medium attack lets you practically guarantee hitting ults or merciless in most scenarios if done right.I only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »gravelord + assassination + aedric has been my favorite stack the whole subclass era
death knell goes with monomyth really well
I really liked this one too but unfortunately it can't compete with meta setups
It's very repetitive and predictable. Like we were saying, if you break free from Javelin, it's a bad stack. if you don't, strongest thing around maybe even WITH new DK. (in NMG obviously)
but allow me to brag when I have the rare opportunity, afaik I came up with Savagery on Siphon so i do try to force myself to use it 😂 this meta is just WAY too fast for it even if I'm not running Merciless (then I use magelight)Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »gravelord + assassination + aedric has been my favorite stack the whole subclass era
death knell goes with monomyth really well
I really liked this one too but unfortunately it can't compete with meta setups
It's very repetitive and predictable. Like we were saying, if you break free from Javelin, it's a bad stack. if you don't, strongest thing around maybe even WITH new DK. (in NMG obviously)
but allow me to brag when I have the rare opportunity, afaik I came up with Savagery on Siphon so i do try to force myself to use it 😂 this meta is just WAY too fast for it even if I'm not running Merciless (then I use magelight)
It's super good damage wise but nearly impossible to sustain and 0 survavibility1 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »But on PCNA nobody uses incap anymore because it took a backseat to merciless or onslaught being preferred in the combo.
The usual engagement is using your timed skill into surprise attack medium stun with whatever you want for guaranteed damage that GCD. Because the Offbalance stun being off gcd with a medium attack lets you practically guarantee hitting ults or merciless in most scenarios if done right.
It's unfortunately easily countered by block. Everyone have endless sustain now and people just block weave all the time, at least on PC EU. It takes no skill but it heavily counters all of the burst builds that have no access to hard CCEdited by Prionyx on 28 April 2026 20:510 -
ArctosCethlenn✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »But on PCNA nobody uses incap anymore because it took a backseat to merciless or onslaught being preferred in the combo.
The usual engagement is using your timed skill into surprise attack medium stun with whatever you want for guaranteed damage that GCD. Because the Offbalance stun being off gcd with a medium attack lets you practically guarantee hitting ults or merciless in most scenarios if done right.
You've also got to remember that subclassing gives easy access to self purges so the incap/soul harvest damage amp just gets stripped off, while onslaught's pen is a buff on the caster and won't disappear after a half second. Incap is still strong its just there're other stronger options that aren't as easily countered.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Did you describe the burst of Nightblade as Incap + Surprise attack instead of Merciless Resolve, the hardest hitting skill in the game? Dragonknight is the king of burst without contest; but Nightblade is and will be even moreso the 2nd best burst.
I am not at all concerned for Nightblade burst or gankers, because they will shred as always. I am concerned about what lies outside of this. What will you do in an age of wing spammers who half your spectral bow's damage and have far beyond 30k HP? If you cannot burst them (no ranged class currently can. Traditional Sorc suffers in this same regard) then they get up and heal to full.
Every other class you can most likely eat up, except toxic Wardens who break things with Shimmering Shield. But what other playstyle do you have besides burst? That is the real question, and I think Nightblade is in this one-sided category and has not many (strong enough) options outside of that. Surprise Attack is top 3 of the best spammables in pvp, but you will not pressured a meta HoT build with this alone.
Please read my post before texting something like this
Why didn't I take incap+merciless "combo" into consideration? Because anyone who have played PVP for at least a few weeks will always dodge merciless. It's not guaranteed, predictable and there is too much time to react. Back in the day I thought it may take some reaction, but in reality it doesn't. Found it out in a few funny ways: I tried playing PC NA for a bit where I have 300 ping and I dodged every single merciless after incap, didn't get hit a single time. But that's nothing, once I logged to duel my friend when I came back after my other friend's birthday where we had a drinking game that didn't go well for me, I guess at this point I had 1000+ ping inside my head but I still dodged all of the bow procs. It doesn't take reaction or skill to dodge it at all. But even if I would take it into consideration incap+merciless still deals less damage than db+bb+bfb, let alone DK's combo.
Anyone with half a brain will dodge incap+merciless, if you take it into consideration then I"ll say arcanist is op because arc can kill anyone if they just stand and eat their beam, because it's the same thing as not doding bow after incap
NB doesn't have any burst whatsoever compared to other classes
I did read it Prionyx. I stand by it still because Merciless being dodgable, particularly as a ranged skill, is something shared by many skills. You say that Crystal Fragments is somehow superior to Merciless, even though it has not only less damage, but has the same minimum travel time issue and gets dodged.
What should outrage us much more than this is the shameless 50% damage mitigation DK Wings (one of the most used and spammed skill) grants against both of these skills. So if you would have mentioned this, I would be with you. Otherwise, this is nothing uniquely detrimental about Merciless over any other ranged skill. Merciless actually activates faster than Crystal Fragments by the way; hence harder to dodge.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.4 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wings is a relic of a long bygone era where DK had little ability to catch a quick ranged player. Either it needs a nerf or BETTER YET - DK needs a permanent snare.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I also don't get why people are complaining about Crit being a problem in PvP.
No, it's the triple layered damage:
Shalks+Ulfsild's+Surprise Attack
(And with DK it's now Core of Flame+Fossilize+Flame Lash)
Sure, all these lines do also add crit, but they mostly layer damage that allows you to burst people into execute range.Edited by Avran_Sylt on 29 April 2026 03:220 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was going to write a big ole post about my thoughts on pure nb going into specifics but decided I didn’t care enough. I will say that despite how I’ve disagreed with prionyx in the past, his points largely strike true in today’s meta.
The burst of pure nb is nothing special anymore. Multiclassss and pure DK do it better both by having higher tooltips and by having options to secure the combo better.
I’m not commenting to get nb buffed. Only doing so because I see some comments about how merciless + bow is/could be too strong.
My advice to people looking to play pure nb is to just play pure dk. It’s the type of playstyle you are looking for just done better. Wait for the rework.
1 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭Did you describe the burst of Nightblade as Incap + Surprise attack instead of Merciless Resolve, the hardest hitting skill in the game? Dragonknight is the king of burst without contest; but Nightblade is and will be even moreso the 2nd best burst.
I am not at all concerned for Nightblade burst or gankers, because they will shred as always. I am concerned about what lies outside of this. What will you do in an age of wing spammers who half your spectral bow's damage and have far beyond 30k HP? If you cannot burst them (no ranged class currently can. Traditional Sorc suffers in this same regard) then they get up and heal to full.
Every other class you can most likely eat up, except toxic Wardens who break things with Shimmering Shield. But what other playstyle do you have besides burst? That is the real question, and I think Nightblade is in this one-sided category and has not many (strong enough) options outside of that. Surprise Attack is top 3 of the best spammables in pvp, but you will not pressured a meta HoT build with this alone.
Please read my post before texting something like this
Why didn't I take incap+merciless "combo" into consideration? Because anyone who have played PVP for at least a few weeks will always dodge merciless. It's not guaranteed, predictable and there is too much time to react. Back in the day I thought it may take some reaction, but in reality it doesn't. Found it out in a few funny ways: I tried playing PC NA for a bit where I have 300 ping and I dodged every single merciless after incap, didn't get hit a single time. But that's nothing, once I logged to duel my friend when I came back after my other friend's birthday where we had a drinking game that didn't go well for me, I guess at this point I had 1000+ ping inside my head but I still dodged all of the bow procs. It doesn't take reaction or skill to dodge it at all. But even if I would take it into consideration incap+merciless still deals less damage than db+bb+bfb, let alone DK's combo.
Anyone with half a brain will dodge incap+merciless, if you take it into consideration then I"ll say arcanist is op because arc can kill anyone if they just stand and eat their beam, because it's the same thing as not doding bow after incap
NB doesn't have any burst whatsoever compared to other classes
I did read it Prionyx. I stand by it still because Merciless being dodgable, particularly as a ranged skill, is something shared by many skills. You say that Crystal Fragments is somehow superior to Merciless, even though it has not only less damage, but has the same minimum travel time issue and gets dodged.
What should outrage us much more than this is the shameless 50% damage mitigation DK Wings (one of the most used and spammed skill) grants against both of these skills. So if you would have mentioned this, I would be with you. Otherwise, this is nothing uniquely detrimental about Merciless over any other ranged skill. Merciless actually activates faster than Crystal Fragments by the way; hence harder to dodge.
Merciless is better than frags, but merciless is all we have, sorc has curse(this is sorc's core skill, not frags, and it is better than merciless) and bound armamentsEdited by Prionyx on 29 April 2026 09:391 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Did you describe the burst of Nightblade as Incap + Surprise attack instead of Merciless Resolve, the hardest hitting skill in the game? Dragonknight is the king of burst without contest; but Nightblade is and will be even moreso the 2nd best burst.
I am not at all concerned for Nightblade burst or gankers, because they will shred as always. I am concerned about what lies outside of this. What will you do in an age of wing spammers who half your spectral bow's damage and have far beyond 30k HP? If you cannot burst them (no ranged class currently can. Traditional Sorc suffers in this same regard) then they get up and heal to full.
Every other class you can most likely eat up, except toxic Wardens who break things with Shimmering Shield. But what other playstyle do you have besides burst? That is the real question, and I think Nightblade is in this one-sided category and has not many (strong enough) options outside of that. Surprise Attack is top 3 of the best spammables in pvp, but you will not pressured a meta HoT build with this alone.
Please read my post before texting something like this
Why didn't I take incap+merciless "combo" into consideration? Because anyone who have played PVP for at least a few weeks will always dodge merciless. It's not guaranteed, predictable and there is too much time to react. Back in the day I thought it may take some reaction, but in reality it doesn't. Found it out in a few funny ways: I tried playing PC NA for a bit where I have 300 ping and I dodged every single merciless after incap, didn't get hit a single time. But that's nothing, once I logged to duel my friend when I came back after my other friend's birthday where we had a drinking game that didn't go well for me, I guess at this point I had 1000+ ping inside my head but I still dodged all of the bow procs. It doesn't take reaction or skill to dodge it at all. But even if I would take it into consideration incap+merciless still deals less damage than db+bb+bfb, let alone DK's combo.
Anyone with half a brain will dodge incap+merciless, if you take it into consideration then I"ll say arcanist is op because arc can kill anyone if they just stand and eat their beam, because it's the same thing as not doding bow after incap
NB doesn't have any burst whatsoever compared to other classes
I did read it Prionyx. I stand by it still because Merciless being dodgable, particularly as a ranged skill, is something shared by many skills. You say that Crystal Fragments is somehow superior to Merciless, even though it has not only less damage, but has the same minimum travel time issue and gets dodged.
What should outrage us much more than this is the shameless 50% damage mitigation DK Wings (one of the most used and spammed skill) grants against both of these skills. So if you would have mentioned this, I would be with you. Otherwise, this is nothing uniquely detrimental about Merciless over any other ranged skill. Merciless actually activates faster than Crystal Fragments by the way; hence harder to dodge.
Merciless is better than frags, but merciless is all we have, sorc has curse(this is sorc's core skill, not frags, and it is better than merciless) and bound armaments
You're right in that. Curse of course has its own set of problems with being cleansable and being telegraphed as a lesser downside. So either way, the burst of both classes is unreliable and too abundantly countered.
From a pure Nightblade context it truly is very one sided. Strong (if no wings are present) but one sided.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭Did you describe the burst of Nightblade as Incap + Surprise attack instead of Merciless Resolve, the hardest hitting skill in the game? Dragonknight is the king of burst without contest; but Nightblade is and will be even moreso the 2nd best burst.
I am not at all concerned for Nightblade burst or gankers, because they will shred as always. I am concerned about what lies outside of this. What will you do in an age of wing spammers who half your spectral bow's damage and have far beyond 30k HP? If you cannot burst them (no ranged class currently can. Traditional Sorc suffers in this same regard) then they get up and heal to full.
Every other class you can most likely eat up, except toxic Wardens who break things with Shimmering Shield. But what other playstyle do you have besides burst? That is the real question, and I think Nightblade is in this one-sided category and has not many (strong enough) options outside of that. Surprise Attack is top 3 of the best spammables in pvp, but you will not pressured a meta HoT build with this alone.
Please read my post before texting something like this
Why didn't I take incap+merciless "combo" into consideration? Because anyone who have played PVP for at least a few weeks will always dodge merciless. It's not guaranteed, predictable and there is too much time to react. Back in the day I thought it may take some reaction, but in reality it doesn't. Found it out in a few funny ways: I tried playing PC NA for a bit where I have 300 ping and I dodged every single merciless after incap, didn't get hit a single time. But that's nothing, once I logged to duel my friend when I came back after my other friend's birthday where we had a drinking game that didn't go well for me, I guess at this point I had 1000+ ping inside my head but I still dodged all of the bow procs. It doesn't take reaction or skill to dodge it at all. But even if I would take it into consideration incap+merciless still deals less damage than db+bb+bfb, let alone DK's combo.
Anyone with half a brain will dodge incap+merciless, if you take it into consideration then I"ll say arcanist is op because arc can kill anyone if they just stand and eat their beam, because it's the same thing as not doding bow after incap
NB doesn't have any burst whatsoever compared to other classes
I did read it Prionyx. I stand by it still because Merciless being dodgable, particularly as a ranged skill, is something shared by many skills. You say that Crystal Fragments is somehow superior to Merciless, even though it has not only less damage, but has the same minimum travel time issue and gets dodged.
What should outrage us much more than this is the shameless 50% damage mitigation DK Wings (one of the most used and spammed skill) grants against both of these skills. So if you would have mentioned this, I would be with you. Otherwise, this is nothing uniquely detrimental about Merciless over any other ranged skill. Merciless actually activates faster than Crystal Fragments by the way; hence harder to dodge.
Merciless is better than frags, but merciless is all we have, sorc has curse(this is sorc's core skill, not frags, and it is better than merciless) and bound armaments
You're right in that. Curse of course has its own set of problems with being cleansable and being telegraphed as a lesser downside. So either way, the burst of both classes is unreliable and too abundantly countered.
From a pure Nightblade context it truly is very one sided. Strong (if no wings are present) but one sided.
Yeah I honestly have no idea why curse, potl and incap's debuffs can be purged. I mean it makes sence logic wise but design wise and balance wise that's weird.
Regarding sorc's burst - this class isn't really renowned for burst, it always was a pressure class, and often too good at that along with near immortality0 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
* 3x Medium Armor - 6% ==> this is not class, this is armor
* Khajiit - 12% ==> This is not class, this is race
* Shadow Mundus 11-18% ==> this is not class, this is bonus mundus stone
* Elemental Susceptibility 10% ==> isn't this a skill for the Destruction Staff (magic)
* Backstabber 10% ==> Not part of the NB class, it is a champion point perk as I recall it So is Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Class Mastery - 5% & Warden 20% ==> It is my understanding that one cannot have subclass with class mastery
Seems there are a lot of non NB counts on the list. What do you get if you go pure NB. No subclass, no CP, no armor or outside bonuses?3 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
* 3x Medium Armor - 6% ==> this is not class, this is armor
* Khajiit - 12% ==> This is not class, this is race
* Shadow Mundus 11-18% ==> this is not class, this is bonus mundus stone
* Elemental Susceptibility 10% ==> isn't this a skill for the Destruction Staff (magic)
* Backstabber 10% ==> Not part of the NB class, it is a champion point perk as I recall it So is Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Class Mastery - 5% & Warden 20% ==> It is my understanding that one cannot have subclass with class mastery
Seems there are a lot of non NB counts on the list. What do you get if you go pure NB. No subclass, no CP, no armor or outside bonuses?
It doesn't matter anyway, you'd need 195% crit damage to reach cap in pvp. Don't bother, this guy just wants NB dead because he doesn't like this class. I kept asking him how could NB burst someone and he just kept changing the subject. In the end I asked to make a simulation, said "what skills will you press to burst me"? and he just stopped replying since he clrealy got nothing to say and is obviously wrongEdited by Prionyx on 29 April 2026 12:101 -
shadoza✭✭✭✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
* 3x Medium Armor - 6% ==> this is not class, this is armor
* Khajiit - 12% ==> This is not class, this is race
* Shadow Mundus 11-18% ==> this is not class, this is bonus mundus stone
* Elemental Susceptibility 10% ==> isn't this a skill for the Destruction Staff (magic)
* Backstabber 10% ==> Not part of the NB class, it is a champion point perk as I recall it So is Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Class Mastery - 5% & Warden 20% ==> It is my understanding that one cannot have subclass with class mastery
Seems there are a lot of non NB counts on the list. What do you get if you go pure NB. No subclass, no CP, no armor or outside bonuses?
It doesn't matter anyway, you'd need 195% crit damage to reach cap in pvp. Don't bother, this guy just wants NB dead because he doesn't like this class. I kept asking him how could NB burst someone and he just kept changing the subject. In the end I asked to make a simulation, said "what skills will you press to burst me"? and he just stopped replying since he clrealy got nothing to say and is obviously wrong
NB was the first class I played back when the game first went live. Half of my characters use NB still. One uses pure NB. I do not see NB doing well in dungeons, boss fights, or even some guests fights. NB does not have a naturally strong attack and it really lacks defense. I have made it work through the years because I have a set of skills that allow me to. But it has been nerffed over and over again because of PvP complaints. I get very frustrated with having to see my preferred class get rolled because PvP players cannot or will not develop their own adaptable skill set under their own choice of class. If players stopped copying other players and just did what worked for them, we would not be seeing these PvP player-demanded power creeps
I do not understand why other players buy into someone else's gear set up and demand nerfs for ever other class because they cannot change what they copied.
Not nice sounding but this is how I see these arguments.1 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
* 3x Medium Armor - 6% ==> this is not class, this is armor
* Khajiit - 12% ==> This is not class, this is race
* Shadow Mundus 11-18% ==> this is not class, this is bonus mundus stone
* Elemental Susceptibility 10% ==> isn't this a skill for the Destruction Staff (magic)
* Backstabber 10% ==> Not part of the NB class, it is a champion point perk as I recall it So is Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Class Mastery - 5% & Warden 20% ==> It is my understanding that one cannot have subclass with class mastery
Seems there are a lot of non NB counts on the list. What do you get if you go pure NB. No subclass, no CP, no armor or outside bonuses?
It doesn't matter anyway, you'd need 195% crit damage to reach cap in pvp. Don't bother, this guy just wants NB dead because he doesn't like this class. I kept asking him how could NB burst someone and he just kept changing the subject. In the end I asked to make a simulation, said "what skills will you press to burst me"? and he just stopped replying since he clrealy got nothing to say and is obviously wrong
NB was the first class I played back when the game first went live. Half of my characters use NB still. One uses pure NB. I do not see NB doing well in dungeons, boss fights, or even some guests fights. NB does not have a naturally strong attack and it really lacks defense. I have made it work through the years because I have a set of skills that allow me to. But it has been nerffed over and over again because of PvP complaints. I get very frustrated with having to see my preferred class get rolled because PvP players cannot or will not develop their own adaptable skill set under their own choice of class. If players stopped copying other players and just did what worked for them, we would not be seeing these PvP player-demanded power creeps
I do not understand why other players buy into someone else's gear set up and demand nerfs for ever other class because they cannot change what they copied.
Not nice sounding but this is how I see these arguments.
It's not and wasn't doing good anywhere(excluding healing at some points) since 2019 but low skilled players who don't want to press break free kept complaining and since there were a lot of them ZOS kept listening to them. NB kept getting nerfs even when it was the weakest class and all because people don't want to press break free or at least do some simple math and realize that necro or warden do way more burst but are also fat, they just see that merciless deals 3k more damage and think that NB is op without ever going deeper to realize how things really areEdited by Prionyx on 29 April 2026 12:470 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
Hey, major brittle, minor brittle doesnt count for crit damage cap as far as i know. Also as some one who tried Orders wrath + Monomyth + RAT on NB on PTS i can just tell you that it totalled to around 150% crit damage maximum and effectively less than that in duels. It also isnt particularly a good way to build imo because despite the good burst damage you are left way too squishy so probably abandoning orders wrath for even less damage and going for a defensive set like rallying cry will be necessary on NB to be anything but a gank build.
And with them raising the cap and further lowering the crit damage in pvp, its probably not going to be realistic to reach maximum crit damage without sacrificing way too much.
Though my worry is that this seems really hard to balance because i dont expect many people surviving an Incap into bow proc with an even unoptimized NB as long as both crit. It's not good during duels, yes. But going about your business and then immediately dying to an NB from invis will be imo way more common in IC and Cyro.
I would like them to be more lenient on crit damage with battle spirit active but treat it more like landslide so it stacks while you deal or take damage, effectively making NB more brawlery and less ganky which is a problem.One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.
NB needs an actual skill that applied major resolve and through passive. When I’m on a NB I always forget proccing it.
Then for the God's sake tell us what makes NB's damage good. I've asked this multiple times, why didn't you answer? Because it's obviously bad, there is nothing that would reinforce your statement because it's just simply wrong, you just always change subjest or reply "no it's good". I've texted multiple arguments and reasons why NB's damage is poor and all you do is say "no it's good". You just want class you don't like nerfed. It's probably because you just don't read my messeges considering you said that nobody talks about NB survivability when it was literally the first thing I mentioned in my original post.
Also NB doesn't need any skill to proc resolve, it's automatically uptimed with path and NB really needs that because of the lack of slots since NB skills mostly just give you 1 thing. Your sustain skill is just a sustain skill, your brutality skill is just a brutality skill, your special damage skill is just a damage skill etc. For example warden's sustain skill also gives brutality and warden's special damage skill also applies major AND minor breach
I prefer race against time when I’m on a NB for minor force. So it doesn’t really help. NB needs a dedicated skill for major resolve
“What makes a NB damage good?” Seriously? Second best spammable (after DK), high crit chance, high crit damage, best execute (Jesus beam is ahh now), element of surprise (with invisibility), second best burst damage after DK if not the best burst, need I say more?…
I say it again
One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Pure class nb feels way too squishy but the st damage is great. They really should try to make NB more of a brawler and less of a ganker rather than feeding into it. As its currently its too squishy in a normal fight but will destroy any one caught unaware. Too polarizing
Major and Minor Brittle DO count towards the cap.2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
* 3x Medium Armor - 6% ==> this is not class, this is armor
* Khajiit - 12% ==> This is not class, this is race
* Shadow Mundus 11-18% ==> this is not class, this is bonus mundus stone
* Elemental Susceptibility 10% ==> isn't this a skill for the Destruction Staff (magic)
* Backstabber 10% ==> Not part of the NB class, it is a champion point perk as I recall it So is Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Class Mastery - 5% & Warden 20% ==> It is my understanding that one cannot have subclass with class mastery
Seems there are a lot of non NB counts on the list. What do you get if you go pure NB. No subclass, no CP, no armor or outside bonuses?
It doesn't matter anyway, you'd need 195% crit damage to reach cap in pvp. Don't bother, this guy just wants NB dead because he doesn't like this class. I kept asking him how could NB burst someone and he just kept changing the subject. In the end I asked to make a simulation, said "what skills will you press to burst me"? and he just stopped replying since he clrealy got nothing to say and is obviously wrong
NB was the first class I played back when the game first went live. Half of my characters use NB still. One uses pure NB. I do not see NB doing well in dungeons, boss fights, or even some guests fights. NB does not have a naturally strong attack and it really lacks defense. I have made it work through the years because I have a set of skills that allow me to. But it has been nerffed over and over again because of PvP complaints. I get very frustrated with having to see my preferred class get rolled because PvP players cannot or will not develop their own adaptable skill set under their own choice of class. If players stopped copying other players and just did what worked for them, we would not be seeing these PvP player-demanded power creeps
I do not understand why other players buy into someone else's gear set up and demand nerfs for ever other class because they cannot change what they copied.
Not nice sounding but this is how I see these arguments.
IMO the current ulti-gen class passive and the critical damage make for good PvE buildcrafting around Order's Wrath and (Perfected) Mora Scribe's Whispers, both together increasing critical chance by 23.1% and crit damage by a Unique 20%.
Not really worth it for brawling in PvP though as you forgo a lot of survivability/sustain.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Justice for Dark Cloak.
It came in for the random gogiga-nerf about a year ago with zero rationale ever provided for why it happened.3 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Justice for Dark Cloak.
It came in for the random gogiga-nerf about a year ago with zero rationale ever provided for why it happened.
We were begging ZOS to make it SPD based HOT instead of health based but they just kept nerfing it for no reason in particular... First reduced healing, then duration, then there was the last nail in it's coffin with this stupid "stand still" condition to the point where it became useless skill but even this wasn't enough, somehow they decided this skill is too good and reduced duration again and also made even more ridicilous condition - BRACING, it was basically a spit on the grave... Mysterious are the ways of the ZOS2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭The above and beyond nerf really is a terrible decision, with those low values you’re still better off subbing into Aedric/AC for the crit damage and burst/stun, the benefit of subclassing will outshine NB masteries in PvP. NB mains will still be running Hurricane/Betty/Spear unfortunately. So another what, 2 years of being an Assassination main instead of an actual NB."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭✭Necro is the worst class in the game, especially since they removed stalking blastbone.PC EU1 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭nightbringer1993 wrote: »Necro is the worst class in the game, especially since they removed stalking blastbone.
Necro is in the same boat as NB, one good skill line. Colossus bombs are as prevalent as Merc bows. Currently the masteries aren’t good enough to pure class into either of these classes. Unless I guess if you want to be a Necro tank."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »@Urzigurumash 😂
@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.
They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance
Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed
You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.
Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage
There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included
You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class
* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%
I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage
I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on
Hey, major brittle, minor brittle doesnt count for crit damage cap as far as i know. Also as some one who tried Orders wrath + Monomyth + RAT on NB on PTS i can just tell you that it totalled to around 150% crit damage maximum and effectively less than that in duels. It also isnt particularly a good way to build imo because despite the good burst damage you are left way too squishy so probably abandoning orders wrath for even less damage and going for a defensive set like rallying cry will be necessary on NB to be anything but a gank build.
And with them raising the cap and further lowering the crit damage in pvp, its probably not going to be realistic to reach maximum crit damage without sacrificing way too much.
Though my worry is that this seems really hard to balance because i dont expect many people surviving an Incap into bow proc with an even unoptimized NB as long as both crit. It's not good during duels, yes. But going about your business and then immediately dying to an NB from invis will be imo way more common in IC and Cyro.
I would like them to be more lenient on crit damage with battle spirit active but treat it more like landslide so it stacks while you deal or take damage, effectively making NB more brawlery and less ganky which is a problem.One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.
NB needs an actual skill that applied major resolve and through passive. When I’m on a NB I always forget proccing it.
Then for the God's sake tell us what makes NB's damage good. I've asked this multiple times, why didn't you answer? Because it's obviously bad, there is nothing that would reinforce your statement because it's just simply wrong, you just always change subjest or reply "no it's good". I've texted multiple arguments and reasons why NB's damage is poor and all you do is say "no it's good". You just want class you don't like nerfed. It's probably because you just don't read my messeges considering you said that nobody talks about NB survivability when it was literally the first thing I mentioned in my original post.
Also NB doesn't need any skill to proc resolve, it's automatically uptimed with path and NB really needs that because of the lack of slots since NB skills mostly just give you 1 thing. Your sustain skill is just a sustain skill, your brutality skill is just a brutality skill, your special damage skill is just a damage skill etc. For example warden's sustain skill also gives brutality and warden's special damage skill also applies major AND minor breach
I prefer race against time when I’m on a NB for minor force. So it doesn’t really help. NB needs a dedicated skill for major resolve
“What makes a NB damage good?” Seriously? Second best spammable (after DK), high crit chance, high crit damage, best execute (Jesus beam is ahh now), element of surprise (with invisibility), second best burst damage after DK if not the best burst, need I say more?…
I say it again
One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Pure class nb feels way too squishy but the st damage is great. They really should try to make NB more of a brawler and less of a ganker rather than feeding into it. As its currently its too squishy in a normal fight but will destroy any one caught unaware. Too polarizing
Major and Minor Brittle DO count towards the cap.
I did not now that.
Gonna need to revise my build what with wardens providing that.0 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭nightbringer1993 wrote: »Necro is the worst class in the game, especially since they removed stalking blastbone.
Right now on PTS with new masteries necro is 3rd best1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mean, given that they did present NB as a support role, it does track that they should be the weakest class in the game.
Looking forward I expect the assassin role to be relegated to a Dk or some other class.
(In the class identity refresh, they are the only class listed as being a support. Yes, the assassin class is the support in a team. like a healer.)Edited by Avran_Sylt on 29 April 2026 21:511 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NB is relegated to the chuck chair.
We are not supposed to have damage, we are to give our allies an advantage, at the expense of ourselves.
If you want to be a killer, play a frontliner like a DK.
Cannot wait for the NB refresh...Edited by Avran_Sylt on 29 April 2026 21:561 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BTW I am salty about the two posts above, just stating what I think ZOS is aiming towards.
(Oh cool my assassin/sniper/glass cannon class is actually supposed to be a support/sustainer).Edited by Avran_Sylt on 29 April 2026 22:030 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »NB is relegated to the chuck chair.
We are not supposed to have damage, we are to give our allies an advantage, at the expense of ourselves.
If you want to be a killer, play a frontliner like a DK.
Cannot wait for the NB refresh...
At this point it truly feels like ZOS just don't like NB and want it to be weak. Everyone were saying that NB was the worst PVP class on the PTS and how laughable our mastery is but they nerfed them1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »NB is relegated to the chuck chair.
We are not supposed to have damage, we are to give our allies an advantage, at the expense of ourselves.
If you want to be a killer, play a frontliner like a DK.
Cannot wait for the NB refresh...
At this point it truly feels like ZOS just don't like NB and want it to be weak. Everyone were saying that NB was the worst PVP class on the PTS and how laughable our mastery is but they nerfed them
I absolutely get the aversion to being one-shot from literally nothing that comes from stealth ganking.
But that's PvP. (ficking irony given most oneshots are against non-meta builds using MULTICLASS from Arcanist/Sorc Crystal Weapon plus Winterborn on squishes)
I hope the NB refresh has a LOT of Battle Spirit conditionals... But it'll be a few years out...Edited by Avran_Sylt on 29 April 2026 22:070