Rele gone from pvp

Wup_sa · April 28

Thank you for finally getting rid of this terribly designed set for pvp. But why was there no mention of this in patch notes, that it was changed to 1 second duration?

Thumbless_Bot · April 28

What happened?

coop500 · April 28

Imma guess it's this undisclosed change.

YandereGirlfriend · April 28

Honestly, they should take the final step and just make it "Against Monsters".

xylena · April 28

PRAISE SITHIS

Thumbless_Bot · April 28

coop500 wrote: »

Imma guess it's this undisclosed change.

Ahahahahahahhaa...

Radiate77 · April 28

Radiate77 · April 28

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

Prionyx · April 28

coop500 wrote: »

Imma guess it's this undisclosed change.

Oh wow, thank God. One of the best changes in years

Radiate77 · April 28

When is Essence Thief getting whacked?
Or Wretched Vitality.

Burtan · April 28

This next please.

Dracane · April 28

Wow, there is hope. They really do listen.

Lord_Hev · April 28

When is rush of agony getting battle-spirited?

Turtle_Bot · April 29

Lord_Hev wrote: »

When is rush of agony getting battle-spirited?

Never, at least not until ZOS releases a new even more broken set for ball groups that also plays their offense for them. ZOS has made that painfully clear over the past few years whenever threads about this set have popped up.

YandereGirlfriend · April 29

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

When is rush of agony getting battle-spirited?

Never, at least not until ZOS releases a new even more broken set for ball groups that also plays their offense for them. ZOS has made that painfully clear over the past few years whenever threads about this set have popped up.

Ballgrouper checking-in and I would not mind if Rush were banished to the Shadow Realm.

Vulkunne · April 29

Not sure what we're celebrating here. They'll just replace it with something else. As for Rele itself, set was dead to me when they flipped the Crit% for Dmg. Personally, I think dmg overall is the problem and they should address that, not break sets for performing. It really won't do any good because another set will take its place. Same goes for RoA, VD, all of that noise, which yeah, I hate 'em too but don't want to see them get destroyed.

What do we do next time, keep breaking things we don't like? ZOS has demonstrated how when 'fixing' something, even if it isn't right, even if its left broken and useless they take forever to go back and fix it, if ever... Jabs and Flurry annnnd Necro, annnnd others for example. I'm not for breaking sets or people's builds. I think there are better solutions than going after things people enjoy using.

That said, yes people have used Rele against me frequently, but that goes for alot of things. I look at it this way, if I need a new shed, I rebuild the one I have, not burn down that part of the back yard and just leave it in ruins. That's not how you make a quality product. Rele needs to be real or don't have it to start with. Don't insult me by giving me a half attempt at copy and paste for a lack luster set. If I goto a fine restaurant, I expect good food cause that what I paid for... not pedestrian sandwiches (from whatever passes as the local drive thru joint). If I wanted cheap, I'd eat somewhere else instead.

Sets and things to avoid:

1) Azure Blight
2) Jabs & Flurry
3) Berserker WW (post update 50... but maybe WW in general cause they can't do damage like before)
4) Cloudrest Trial Sets (Right, not just Rele but Siroria is garbage too and I've never even heard of anyone using the other set)

So there is no real reason to care about Cloudrest Trial or Lair of Maarselok now.

acanca · April 29

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

Dracane · April 29

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

acanca · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

Wuuffyy · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

Haha, can we maybe leave the class sets be for a bit in PvP? I like to glow on my werewolf and have something meaningful of my class. These are pain in the rear to farm and are locked out almost exclusively by dedication (most PvPers aren't going through this effort, in other words). No that doesn't mean it should be OP...

but it's a slightly-lower-scaling unfathomable darkness (unfathomable darkness is a slightly bigger tooltip not counting one of the 2, 3, 4 being crit on that set and this set is clearly, heavily inspired by it)... it just so happens to give more damage when you're specced as a warden and can run Aerie's (but like- unfathomable itself is a pretty dog proc set that can and should be brought up in value or changed like MANY other sets in this game currently).

On a side note, this is exactly what I feared with the 'on monsters' effect. First werewolf berserker bleed just ravished from live and now every proc set in existence sourced from PvE needs to be obliterated into the shadow realm for PvP (would take like a damage value nerf 'on players' but like... the WHOLE set???). I mean, sure Rush of Agony is toxic, nonsense trash b/c burst damage+no-CC-pull so get rid of it... but like a set that's a pain to farm+ unique to a class+ ~1k dps on the proc itself+ purgeable... we have to turn that OFF in PvP?

Firstmep · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

Meanwhile Aetheric Lancer still has a stupid pick up game and Wrathsun takes 40 seconds to build up.

Wuuffyy · April 29

Vulkunne wrote: »

...Sets and things to avoid:

1) Azure Blight
2) Jabs & Flurry
3) Berserker WW (post update 50... but maybe WW in general cause they can't do damage like before)
4) Cloudrest Trial Sets (Right, not just Rele but Siroria is garbage too and I've never even heard of anyone using the other set)

So there is no real reason to care about Cloudrest Trial or Lair of Maarselok now.

Better get the pencil ready, peeps above pining for another one. This totally isn't going to get out of hand or anything... I'm sure, right?

Dracane · April 29

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

My partner uses Aerie and Rallying Cry at the moment. He contemplates dropping Rallying for something like Pariah.
He doesn't even build particularly offensive, but can sustain around 8k DPS on me from range. (Like a dummy parse obviously; just standing still and parsing. So not altogether realistic)

Wuuffyy · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

My partner uses Aerie and Rallying Cry at the moment. He contemplates dropping Rallying for something like Pariah.
He doesn't even build particularly offensive, but can sustain around 8k DPS on me from range. (Like a dummy parse obviously; just standing still and parsing. So not altogether realistic)

No offense Dracane but this throwing up numbers from everyone and ZoS just eating it up is actually diabolical. I’m in actual disbelief that now anything I decide to run/test that is remotely viable, I’m going to have to look over my shoulder and the forums to see if it’s taking a hit because good ol’ BillyBob42 said he pulled 11k while running ‘savage werewolf’. Can y’all not go play vengeance if y’all want basic as fluff template PvP with ‘all the skill’ and ‘no flashy sets’?

I don’t care if this ‘sounds dumb’ the premise I mentioned above is even more so. I don’t want to go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ where your freedom of expression was Hundings Rage/Hulking Draugr.

Dracane · April 29

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

My partner uses Aerie and Rallying Cry at the moment. He contemplates dropping Rallying for something like Pariah.
He doesn't even build particularly offensive, but can sustain around 8k DPS on me from range. (Like a dummy parse obviously; just standing still and parsing. So not altogether realistic)

No offense Dracane but this throwing up numbers from everyone and ZoS just eating it up is actually diabolical. I’m in actual disbelief that now anything I decide to run/test that is remotely viable, I’m going to have to look over my shoulder and the forums to see if it’s taking a hit because good ol’ BillyBob42 said he pulled 11k while running ‘savage werewolf’. Can y’all not go play vengeance if y’all want basic as fluff template PvP with ‘all the skill’ and ‘no flashy sets’?

I don’t care if this ‘sounds dumb’ the premise I mentioned above is even more so. I don’t want to go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ where your freedom of expression was Hundings Rage/Hulking Draugr.

I understand. For my partner's sake I also do not want it nerfed. It's more like me asking whether people are aware of this and if this is fine and whether I am unjustified in my surprise of its damage.

I don't want to make you nervous.

Wuuffyy · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

My partner uses Aerie and Rallying Cry at the moment. He contemplates dropping Rallying for something like Pariah.
He doesn't even build particularly offensive, but can sustain around 8k DPS on me from range. (Like a dummy parse obviously; just standing still and parsing. So not altogether realistic)

No offense Dracane but this throwing up numbers from everyone and ZoS just eating it up is actually diabolical. I’m in actual disbelief that now anything I decide to run/test that is remotely viable, I’m going to have to look over my shoulder and the forums to see if it’s taking a hit because good ol’ BillyBob42 said he pulled 11k while running ‘savage werewolf’. Can y’all not go play vengeance if y’all want basic as fluff template PvP with ‘all the skill’ and ‘no flashy sets’?

I don’t care if this ‘sounds dumb’ the premise I mentioned above is even more so. I don’t want to go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ where your freedom of expression was Hundings Rage/Hulking Draugr.

I understand. For my partner's sake I also do not want it nerfed. It's more like me asking whether people are aware of this and if this is fine and whether I am unjustified in my surprise of its damage.

I don't want to make you nervous.

I’m not nervous. This micro/macro (cannot remember which one applies) social exchange of what forum-goers believe should be annihilated in relation to the actual game I’m playing has me borderline ready to quit and deattach from the game again (yeah, yeah ‘I know nobody cares: blah blah’). I cannot remember a time the nerf calling has had this much fervor and actual power to boot.

Source: a dude that has played for 10 years in PvE and PvP at a relatively proficient level and has never once (if my memory serves me correctly) went to the forums/Reddit to demand a nerf.

Dracane · April 29

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Good change. Would be good to be able to get full mats back after a decon when a set gets nerfed like this but i dont care about the mats wasted that much as long as game is in a healthier state.

Now give pyrebrand the same treatment, it does the same if not more damage and is way more stickier

And Aerie's Cry particularly could be looked at. It hits for around 4k every few seconds, so similarly to the best burst proc sets around, but automatically, every few seconds, through walls, through everything. It now even stacks. And this is leaving aside the 10% damage bonus it passively grants.

This was just a friendly test we did. Only afterwards did we notice how hard this constantly hits.

And works from backbar, probably still not good enough to beat backbar rallying cry but pretty cool set

My partner uses Aerie and Rallying Cry at the moment. He contemplates dropping Rallying for something like Pariah.
He doesn't even build particularly offensive, but can sustain around 8k DPS on me from range. (Like a dummy parse obviously; just standing still and parsing. So not altogether realistic)

No offense Dracane but this throwing up numbers from everyone and ZoS just eating it up is actually diabolical. I’m in actual disbelief that now anything I decide to run/test that is remotely viable, I’m going to have to look over my shoulder and the forums to see if it’s taking a hit because good ol’ BillyBob42 said he pulled 11k while running ‘savage werewolf’. Can y’all not go play vengeance if y’all want basic as fluff template PvP with ‘all the skill’ and ‘no flashy sets’?

I don’t care if this ‘sounds dumb’ the premise I mentioned above is even more so. I don’t want to go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ where your freedom of expression was Hundings Rage/Hulking Draugr.

I understand. For my partner's sake I also do not want it nerfed. It's more like me asking whether people are aware of this and if this is fine and whether I am unjustified in my surprise of its damage.

I don't want to make you nervous.

I’m not nervous. This micro/macro (cannot remember which one applies) social exchange of what forum-goers believe should be annihilated in relation to the actual game I’m playing has me borderline ready to quit and deattach from the game again (yeah, yeah ‘I know nobody cares: blah blah’). I cannot remember a time the nerf calling has had this much fervor and actual power to boot.

Source: a dude that has played for 10 years in PvE and PvP at a relatively proficient level and has never once (if my memory serves me correctly) went to the forums/Reddit to demand a nerf.

I care and I don't ever want someone passionate to quit something they are passionate about. Things tend to fade when no one is passionate about them.

Wuuffyy · April 29

I care and I don't ever want someone passionate to quit something they are passionate about. Things tend to fade when no one is passionate about them.

I mentioned that part of the comment that you are referencing to stave off some of the comments I’ve been receiving in these forums simply asking what I perceive as logical basics. I was not trying to be dramatic and the quitting/detaching from this game has no emotional value for me any more (in the sense I’m not worried about ‘losing time/value/etc. from prior play time).

It’s more like I used to love this game, PvP-wise it became notably worse me over time (especially werewolf), and then I simply lost interest a ~year-2 years ago. I log on occasionally (every few weeks or so; PvP of course) and play with friends and have done so far more recently with upcoming changes on the horizon.

However, the bad taste if they were to ship werewolf (I see that 1 sec dot change as downright malicious as far as balance goes, I won’t lie to you) as it is right now along with the mental bleh of having to champion anything unpopular with these polarized forum goers is legitimately enough to uninstall and never play again. I’m just trying to be honest as a past and current paying customer of ESO who is part of a metric somewhere.

But I really do appreciate your kindness and sincerity, it is only a game after all so wanted to let you know no-big-deal either way I suppose.

Dracane · April 29

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I care and I don't ever want someone passionate to quit something they are passionate about. Things tend to fade when no one is passionate about them.

I mentioned that part of the comment that you are referencing to stave off some of the comments I’ve been receiving in these forums simply asking what I perceive as logical basics. I was not trying to be dramatic and the quitting/detaching from this game has no emotional value for me any more (in the sense I’m not worried about ‘losing time/value/etc. from prior play time).

It’s more like I used to love this game, PvP-wise it became notably worse me over time (especially werewolf), and then I simply lost interest a ~year-2 years ago. I log on occasionally (every few weeks or so; PvP of course) and play with friends and have done so far more recently with upcoming changes on the horizon.

However, the bad taste if they were to ship werewolf (I see that 1 sec dot change as downright malicious as far as balance goes, I won’t lie to you) as it is right now along with the mental bleh of having to champion anything unpopular with these polarized forum goers is legitimately enough to uninstall and never play again. I’m just trying to be honest as a past and current paying customer of ESO who is part of a metric somewhere.

But I really do appreciate your kindness and sincerity, it is only a game after all so wanted to let you know no-big-deal either way I suppose.

This nerf/buff rodeo; I have been on it too many times across the years. It makes me anxious all the same, but overall I feel much more positively about ESO than I have. I sense that this team is trying much harder, and not only in regards to combat. I'm excited for ESO's future. It feels like it's really heading into a tremendous direction at large.

This is not to nicen the nerfs that have occured and will occur. And most likely I will crash out next week or when Update 50 comes and more things have been nerfed. Hopefully not.

xylena · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

I care and I don't ever want someone passionate to quit something they are passionate about. Things tend to fade when no one is passionate about them.

Nobody is "passionate" about a specific set though. I like MDW but it's nothing compared to say, the entire StamSorc class, or the whole of dual wield melee, or the entire dot pressure playstyle. There are dozens of other sets that functionally do the same thing as Relequen, without breaking the game. Sets are interchangeable, they go in and out of the meta all the time.

Speaking of, Rushing Agony (and the charm stun effect) has had its time to shine. Time to put it to bed. Let there be a new large scale group set meta.

Wuuffyy · April 29

Dracane wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I care and I don't ever want someone passionate to quit something they are passionate about. Things tend to fade when no one is passionate about them.

I mentioned that part of the comment that you are referencing to stave off some of the comments I’ve been receiving in these forums simply asking what I perceive as logical basics. I was not trying to be dramatic and the quitting/detaching from this game has no emotional value for me any more (in the sense I’m not worried about ‘losing time/value/etc. from prior play time).

It’s more like I used to love this game, PvP-wise it became notably worse me over time (especially werewolf), and then I simply lost interest a ~year-2 years ago. I log on occasionally (every few weeks or so; PvP of course) and play with friends and have done so far more recently with upcoming changes on the horizon.

However, the bad taste if they were to ship werewolf (I see that 1 sec dot change as downright malicious as far as balance goes, I won’t lie to you) as it is right now along with the mental bleh of having to champion anything unpopular with these polarized forum goers is legitimately enough to uninstall and never play again. I’m just trying to be honest as a past and current paying customer of ESO who is part of a metric somewhere.

But I really do appreciate your kindness and sincerity, it is only a game after all so wanted to let you know no-big-deal either way I suppose.

This nerf/buff rodeo; I have been on it too many times across the years. It makes me anxious all the same, but overall I feel much more positively about ESO than I have. I sense that this team is trying much harder, and not only in regards to combat. I'm excited for ESO's future. It feels like it's really heading into a tremendous direction at large.

This is not to nicen the nerfs that have occured and will occur. And most likely I will crash out next week or when Update 50 comes and more things have been nerfed. Hopefully not.

Well I think part of it is they left so much alone for so long and now they’re just coming in with a sledgehammer and smashing random things like glass bottles instead of taking a step back and properly setting ground rules and then applying all at once for everything in a cleaner fashion (again versus following through with ‘hits’ for the top forumgoers). (this is the relevant to the conversation part y’all)

Werewolf I simply can’t believe cannot even make it out of the PTS onto live with the promise to adjust the following patch for all but the most extreme of examples. From what I could see, it’s still performing suboptimally against high pressure without sorc masteries and has no burst. So aside from extreme situations like extended 1 v 1s and outside of updated animations- I’m failing to see what has actually been ‘solved’ (beyond the ability to PvE in melee-range only) in any meaningful way with all of these nerfs especially.

ZOS has a vision, listens to the absolute most critical of players that have no interest in whether or not something continues existing in any viable fashion after, and just takes a whack at it in some way similar to throwing darts at a dart board and whatever they hit simply goes on the running list of underwhelming concepts this game has an abundance of. Like throwing ‘on monsters’ to a set that has existed for years ‘without issue’ in PvP is a BIG deal and doing that ‘at random’ is an even bigger deal.