Challenge difficulty is so much fun

AlterBlika · April 19

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat

Last time I checked, on vestige regular enemies still aren't close enough to being damage sponges, and bosses take some time to kill even on adventurer. On vestige they just feel right.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them?

Imo short fights aren't a good fit for ESO - you would just abuse dodge rolls to take no damage from mobs while dispatching them with aoe in a couple of hits. Plus sustain wouldn't matter. One less niche for sustain races which are already considered bad.

SilverBride · April 19

randconfig wrote: »

Honestly, there is only one way this challenge difficulty thing is going to work without separate instances:
Mark players and foes in vestige difficulty with an icon, and force any lower difficulty player into that difficulty the moment they join the combat. Do not let them grief and ruin my experience or the experience of my friends.

Otherwise, at least give us a pass on violating the ToS when we inevitably get into verbal fights with griefing players lol.

The mobs don't belong to the Vestige. They belong to everyone that logs in, just like they always have. The open world has always been occupied by players of all skill levels, and gear, and builds because that is how an MMO works. A new system for optional difficulty levels doesn't change that. No one is griefing anyone or ruining anyone else's experience by playing an MMO the way they have always been played. And no one will be forced into playing a way they don't want to because it's someone else's preference.

JimT722 · April 19

questing on master feels good. i'm really liking it. I just don't think it will be great when it hits live as is. People on lower difficulty will just destroy everything. Zos says they aren't willing to separate people by difficulty so I don't know what the solution would be that allows this mode to work well.

OsUfi · April 19

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threat or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

BretonMage · April 19

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

OsUfi · April 19

BretonMage wrote: »

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

But you're still going to be able to run past them or blow them up quickly. You also don't have to set it to max difficulty. A notch or two up would add a little resistance and pushback from the world without being too hard.

They could have just buffed all the bosses, but lordy, we know how that would have gone down after 10 years of setting the difficulty bar as low as it is now.

BretonMage · April 19

OsUfi wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

But you're still going to be able to run past them or blow them up quickly. You also don't have to set it to max difficulty. A notch or two up would add a little resistance and pushback from the world without being too hard.

They could have just buffed all the bosses, but lordy, we know how that would have gone down after 10 years of setting the difficulty bar as low as it is now.

I'm not sure buffing everyone including trash mobs was better. It was probably too complex for them to tweak properly, but I was hoping for a system like, only bosses or enemies with bars will be more dangerous. Which, granted, would also include enemies like trolls and wispmothers, but it would at least make more sense than what we have on PTS.

spartaxoxo · April 19

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

It's a toggle that you can turn on and off at will. It only works that way if you want it to work that way. You can very easily turn it off while out and about and only turn it on during the big bad.

BretonMage · April 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

It's a toggle that you can turn on and off at will. It only works that way if you want it to work that way. You can very easily turn it off while out and about and only turn it on during the big bad.

That's a pretty cumbersome way to go about things though. Also, you'd be flipping back and forth between difficulty modes in public dungeons.

It would have been great if they had a setting where challenge difficulty would only apply to bosses. I'd use that. (And turn it off for WBs, lol).

AliceIbanez · April 19

Guys, you're making me want to try it!
Can't wait to try it on live server !!!

spartaxoxo · April 19

BretonMage wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

It's a toggle that you can turn on and off at will. It only works that way if you want it to work that way. You can very easily turn it off while out and about and only turn it on during the big bad.

That's a pretty cumbersome way to go about things though. Also, you'd be flipping back and forth between difficulty modes in public dungeons.

It would have been great if they had a setting where challenge difficulty would only apply to bosses. I'd use that. (And turn it off for WBs, lol).

You could just only use it for story questing to make it less cumbersome. I'm probably just going to turn it on and forget about unless I'm farming but if I wanted to work on bosses alone I'd probably just skip turning it on for PDs. The group event bosses from the more recent dlc are a good difficulty on their own anyway. I do think a bosses only setting would be nice but I can also see why they kept it simple given the tech issues at play.

Jammy420 · April 20

Displaced_Salad wrote: »

That's great (and I mean that sincerely). Now add story mode for those on the opposite side of the spectrum, ZOS, please.

The default overland difficulty IS story mode, it legit could not be any easier....

Jammy420 · April 20

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

See, I have done the math on this, and that simply is just not true. 100 percent of the damage a wolf does on me atm, is less than 1 percent of my life. So if the wolf did 10 times that (1000 percent) , it will still only take ten percent of my life. Hardly dangerous.

twisttop138 · April 20

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Honestly, there is only one way this challenge difficulty thing is going to work without separate instances:
Mark players and foes in vestige difficulty with an icon, and force any lower difficulty player into that difficulty the moment they join the combat. Do not let them grief and ruin my experience or the experience of my friends.

Otherwise, at least give us a pass on violating the ToS when we inevitably get into verbal fights with griefing players lol.

Nope. Any difficulty other than adventurer is opt-in. Nobody can be forced into a higher difficulty.

They wouldn't be. It would be their choice to engage (or not) with a clear icon tag.

It's a moot point because it'll never happen.

The devs have already spoken their piece about this. They know situations like this will happen but know that for the majority of the time it will be fine. This is not really different than it is already on live right this second. If looking for the quote, it's in the same place posted up thread with the comments about the technical limitations.

We're all just gonna have to learn to live together and get along. We don't play the game alone. We could all try to have a little courtesy for the next guy, maybe we'll be alright.

BretonMage · April 20

Jammy420 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

See, I have done the math on this, and that simply is just not true. 100 percent of the damage a wolf does on me atm, is less than 1 percent of my life. So if the wolf did 10 times that (1000 percent) , it will still only take ten percent of my life. Hardly dangerous.

Perhaps not one wolf's normal attack. But if you're fighting a few trash mobs, a number of normal attacks followed by a heavy attack might kill you. I was killed by a trash group in a public dungeon, can't remember if it was seasoned or master difficulty. I see trash mobs as nuisances I don't even want to fight, so this was not something I enjoyed.

twisttop138 · April 20

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

You can also switch it on and off at will iirc. So you can have the best of both worlds. This isn't some permanent thing. I'll use it for quest bosses probably exclusively. I don't care if trash mobs have mechanics I don't want to plot out my routes and all this, though respect to those that do. I just don't have the time for hassle in the overland. But bosses? I'm replaying the entire game to have harder bosses. Every quest.

SilverBride · April 20

It seems like a lot of players plan to just use difficulty for Bosses, in particular Story Bosses. It seems to me that providing a Challenge Banner with different difficulty settings could have been sufficient for a lot less work.

Jammy420 · April 20

BretonMage wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

See, I have done the math on this, and that simply is just not true. 100 percent of the damage a wolf does on me atm, is less than 1 percent of my life. So if the wolf did 10 times that (1000 percent) , it will still only take ten percent of my life. Hardly dangerous.

Perhaps not one wolf's normal attack. But if you're fighting a few trash mobs, a number of normal attacks followed by a heavy attack might kill you. I was killed by a trash group in a public dungeon, can't remember if it was seasoned or master difficulty. I see trash mobs as nuisances I don't even want to fight, so this was not something I enjoyed.

Then you need to invest in invisibility potions. The point of more difficult settings is that you need to think a bit more, not just mindlessly run through everything.

BretonMage · April 20

twisttop138 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

You can also switch it on and off at will iirc. So you can have the best of both worlds. This isn't some permanent thing. I'll use it for quest bosses probably exclusively. I don't care if trash mobs have mechanics I don't want to plot out my routes and all this, though respect to those that do. I just don't have the time for hassle in the overland. But bosses? I'm replaying the entire game to have harder bosses. Every quest.

Yeah I really only wanted harder delve and public dungeon bosses. And switching back and forth between normal and challenge difficulty in a delve or public dungeon will get tiresome - there are usually 5 or more bosses in a public dungeon. Not terribly immersive either: "oops, here comes the boss, please wait while I toggle this switch to nerf myself...."

twisttop138 · April 20

BretonMage wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

You can also switch it on and off at will iirc. So you can have the best of both worlds. This isn't some permanent thing. I'll use it for quest bosses probably exclusively. I don't care if trash mobs have mechanics I don't want to plot out my routes and all this, though respect to those that do. I just don't have the time for hassle in the overland. But bosses? I'm replaying the entire game to have harder bosses. Every quest.

Yeah I really only wanted harder delve and public dungeon bosses. And switching back and forth between normal and challenge difficulty in a delve or public dungeon will get tiresome - there are usually 5 or more bosses in a public dungeon. Not terribly immersive either: "oops, here comes the boss, please wait while I toggle this switch to nerf myself...."

Oh I get the complaint for sure. To be completely fair though, I don't know what people thought it would be. This is a Zos that cannot do chapters anymore. A Zos that is greatly diminished. We were always going to get the basic economy package. There's a lot of people super excited though, and that makes me happy. I will use it for story bosses and maybe delves or PD bosses. If I'm honest, I don't really care about immersion. If it's easy to use, I'll be satisfied.

BretonMage · April 21

twisttop138 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why do you enjoy Damage Sponges? having to hit an enemy 100 times is not engaging combat, I get the enemies dealing more damage to you so you have to dodge attacks and move around but why do we do less damage to them? why not make all fights as realistic as can be and make it so being stabbed once = death regardless of if you're the player or an NPC.

For many of us it's not about wanting damage sponges. It's about the big evils that are built up over entire stories falling over when light attacked a couple of times with absolutely no threes or danger at all.

For the entire base game, and the first few DLCs you'd spend 40 hours exploring an area, getting the vibe, listening to all the stories, then sneezing on the end boss to kill him while he posed no threat at all.

It's too far in the other direction. It's to easy. There's no stakes to anything. When every single story feels like it could be done by Bill the cabbage farmer, then what's the point?

Ah, if only it was the "big evils" that were dangerous. With challenge difficulty the way it's set up now, wolves and bandits will be almost as dangerous as the big evils. Which is ridiculous, and is why I won't be participating.

You can also switch it on and off at will iirc. So you can have the best of both worlds. This isn't some permanent thing. I'll use it for quest bosses probably exclusively. I don't care if trash mobs have mechanics I don't want to plot out my routes and all this, though respect to those that do. I just don't have the time for hassle in the overland. But bosses? I'm replaying the entire game to have harder bosses. Every quest.

Yeah I really only wanted harder delve and public dungeon bosses. And switching back and forth between normal and challenge difficulty in a delve or public dungeon will get tiresome - there are usually 5 or more bosses in a public dungeon. Not terribly immersive either: "oops, here comes the boss, please wait while I toggle this switch to nerf myself...."

Oh I get the complaint for sure. To be completely fair though, I don't know what people thought it would be. This is a Zos that cannot do chapters anymore. A Zos that is greatly diminished. We were always going to get the basic economy package. There's a lot of people super excited though, and that makes me happy. I will use it for story bosses and maybe delves or PD bosses. If I'm honest, I don't really care about immersion. If it's easy to use, I'll be satisfied.

So with the new seasonal challenge we just got, "kill 100 bosses". There is obviously already a way for them to differentiate between bosses and non-bosses. Why not use that to give us an extra challenge setting of "bosses only"? I'm sure it will be popular.