U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery

Contraptions · April 16

I'm seeing that these new passives can be really powerful on paper and in terms of numbers which is nice. But I'm more of a "flavour" and visuals type of player and would have liked if some of these passives had a bit more oomph to them and feed into the class fantasy EVEN MORE rather than just stats upgrades.

Like say, sorc's mastery passives allow pure sorcs to proc additional pools of lightning as opposed to Static Reverb which is just... an additional damage number on your screen. Or summon a temporary daedra pet that does the additional damage for you. Necro could get temp pets, bone yards, additional tethers, drop corpses. DKs could get the old inferno fireball back etc. Something that makes me go, wow, what's that skill that guy is using?

All im saying, sets like Wrathsun or Monolith of Storms now both look and feel powerful. Would prefer some of the class mastery passives be the same too.

SuperMexHero · April 16

The Class Mastery system looks really cool and I love how most of the passives work, really like how there's a system in place with power amps in the interim until all the classes see their refreshes.
From a PVE DD's perspective a lot of these felt really good in the PTS but there definitely were a few that fell flat for me as someone who does almost exclusively 12-man content.

- Necromancer | "Malevolent Promise" This passive has a really cool interaction with the Corpseburster set and I can totally see this being extremely useful in content even without it (Stingy bosses running away from your Siphon ticks!) But compared to "Nothing Wasted" and "Cycle Unending" I found this passive really lagging behind in testing in terms of damage production.
Maybe tacking on some extra power somewhere or even introducing a group wide or solo debuff such as a unique damage amp of some kind (Damage over time, Raw damage, Critical damage, Status Effect damage, ect.) on targets affected by "Death's Touch" for a duration would be really cool to see elevate this passive into contention with the former two mentioned.

finally for Necro just a slight gripe I have against "Nothing Wasted" in terms of scorepushing content I definitely see this being a bit of a pain point to utilize in a few encounters just because of the max stack count you have to get to. Going into fights like Zhaj'hassa where you'll have no stacks to start the fight in a scorepushing scene the boss is 100% going to die before you even can get to 10 stacks. This is a more niche case though so I understand looking past this :P

- NightBlade | The concept of "An Eye For Exploitation" and "Above And Beyond" is fine I think but it seems the numeric values might need to be slightly adjusted at least from what I experienced in testing. For a class that until it gets refreshed has absolutely abysmal AOE DPS it was a strong bit behind current Sub-Classed options in Single Target damage.

- DragonKnight | This is more of a personal preference than a "This really fell flat for me" thing but for "Lead From The Front" I would have really liked to see this passive retain the Major Herosim instead of the Major Berserk since that can already be source from "Summon Storm Atronach" and would provide a huge power amp to the group making it really compelling to stick with a pure class DK over subbing out the crappy "Draconic Power" skill line for dealing damage.

Anyways, thanks for reading! Have a good one

Firstmep · April 16

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Why does Templar have Battle Spirit limitations on stuff that’s just cool for the class. The good damage mastery is fine but I don’t see Templar being able to complete with other pure classes nevertheless someone who is Subclassing. Also the Wrathsun battlespirit debuff is a joke.

Frankly both class masteries and the buff wrathsun are too weak. Theres 1 good mastery while the rest are boring and lackluster.

warm_blanket · April 16

Quick first thoughts from a solo pvp perspective, using subclassing meta as a comparison point:

An Eye For Exploitation: Looks better than it is, not worth giving up subclassing for. In practice you only get a small fraction of the 1250 stat available. Double the value to 2500 for the next pts cycle and if needed adjust from there.

Nocturnal Inspiration: Pretty good, but its value scales with how strong pure nb is. As things stand not worth taking.

Above and Beyond: Very funny guys. Your original values of 25%/35% were more compelling.

There are some real monsters coming with u50 (which I'm all for btw), it would be nice to at least have pure nb easily match against established subclassing builds.

sweatapodimas · April 16

Above and beyond: Needs to get rid of the reduction vs players, not needed.

Eye For Exploitation: 1400 was fair why reduce it by 150???

Wondering who suggested these, play testers or devs.

At least they tried. For me to come back to the game they need more than this. CM passives across the board still doesn't come close to competing with this abhorrent subclassing meta. Its a joke in my opinion.
'
Good luck and cheers!

xylena · April 16

Arcanist Mastery seems weak, needs things to DO with Crux not just make it, buffs for holding the Crux when you can't spend it, etc. Arc DD is in dire need of PvP help.

Nightblade Mastery should maybe do something other than one shot assassin RP because that's never gonna be balanced in anything outside Dark Brotherhood quests. Really miss when you could make blood mage brawler builds like Sap Tank or the old Axe Bleed MDW specs.

DK and Sorc Mastery seem to be in a good place for PvP, though Sorc is very pushed.

YandereGirlfriend · April 16

Like others have said, most of the new Masteries seem focused exclusively upon damage dealing, which is highly problematic. It seems as though the official decision is that support roles must subclass and that pureclassing is reserved only for damage dealing roles.

Further, group support seems to have been neglected almost entirely on certain classes, chief among them Sorcerer, Necromancer, and Nightblade.

Of these, Sorcerer looms the largest. Why? Because that class already brings next to nothing to an organized group. It shares a "unique" class buff, Minor Prophecy, with the meta Nightblade damage line, which means that the buff is never needed. That leaves Major Berserk from Atro. But what is happening in U50? Oh right, pureclass Dragonknights are stealing that away from Sorcerers, leaving them with literally nothing to offer anyone. The 3% WD and damage shields do not move the needle. Show me (Sorcerers) the metaphorical money. Create a new buff if you have to. Or upgrade Minor Prophecy into a unique Critical Chance source while pureclassed so that it cannot be co-opted by Nightblades.

Next are Necromancers. There was no attempt even made with the Masteries to give Necromancers something unique to provide to their groups. Like actually nothing. What the what?! Necromancers do not even have a unique buff to offer their groups and their previously unique debuff, Major Vulnerability, has been handed-out like Halloween candy to about a dozen other sources, including basic sets. The devs seem to think that it is still 2019 and Major Vulnerability is still 30% and unique to Necromancers. Because only that ancient point of view could lead to them to determining that Necromancers are fine as they are. Necromancers need an entirely new buff or debuff but we will seemingly have to wait two more years for any progress on the supremely neglected class. In the meantime, however, allow pureclassed Necromancers to upgrade their Colossus Major Vulnerability to 20%.

Lastly, Nightblades. The group utility from their Masteries is totally nonexistent. A small amount of shared resource-return and 1 measly ultimate for only 4 group members? This relegates the entire passive to dungeon-only and mechanically obviates it from ever seeing use in trials. Currently, Nightblade screams, "I am the selfish class!" but that seems like a very strange restriction to place upon an entire class. NB healing and tanking are popular but they receive nothing for groups from this update, so they will always be excluded in favor of subclassed options. Similarly to my Sorcerer suggestion, allow pureclassed Nightblades to upgrade Minor Savagery into a unique Critical Chance source.

Cominfordatoothbrush · April 16

It would be really nice (forgive if this has been stated and I missed it) to see what kind of power levels ZOS is aiming for with these changes. It would be even better to see them bolt down a rough power level they're going for and going forward balance things around it. I'm sure there will be lots of adjusting on class sets and pure class passives throughout this PTS but they seem to vary pretty wildly so far, about 30k+ dps difference from the lowest to highest top parses per class I've seen floating around so it would be really good to know even for the sake of giving valuable feedback on what needs buffed/nerfed

MSattrtand · April 16

Let's check pain points that PvE NB-DD has on live and take a look, if class masteries address them:

Mediocre ST DPS - on week 1 of PTS NB is on the lower end of all ST-parses. The only class that parses (barely) lower is arc. And cro, if we're talking about a non-cheesy cro set-up.

Low cleave - no mastery gives you more cleave directly. Masteries boost your DPS overall, but from the previous point, we can see that it's not even a big boost, so your low cleave remains low.

Complex rotation, extremely dependent on proper weaving - nothing.

Bad sustain - in theory, ulti-gen passive improves the sustain cause you will use ult more often instead of regular skills. In practice, this mastery isn't that good DPS-wise. And "Share the Spoils" only gives sustain for your allies, not you.

Low group utility - ulti-gen passive can boost your group if you're in WM or Crypt jail. That already sounds pretty sad, but remember that Plar also has ultigen mastery. And a unique 300 WPD/SPD from new mastery. And synergy for Kosh from Ritual. Well, Share the Spoils also gives something to allies - sustain, that no one needs, and a low amount of ult - and it's bad DPS-wise.

So, NB masteries solve none of these issues. And, you know, NB is the only class that suffered directly from "damage to monsters" becoming additive with "damage done", since Shadowy Disguise got nerfed with this change. And Shadow is already either the least or second least popular skill line for DDs, which also got nerfed twice, since multiclassing came out.

Now masteries from the PvE healer PoV:

Nocturnal Inspiration - in theory decent utli-gen, but only in fights with multiple enemies, since your crit is low, and you can only proc it with Light Attack or Elemental Blockade. I'm not sure that multiclassing into Bone Tyrant in this case won't grant you more ulti. And the change scales from weapon critical, which is probably lower, since hybridisation is not complete, and you won't have Major Savagery in most cases.

An Eye for Exploitation - more HPS against low HP allies, but you already have enough HPS to outheal anything. So it's kinda useless.

Above and Beyond - even more HPS, but now it's random. And if you actually have some HPS check, you would rather not rely on critical healing. Also, can we make Hemorrhage and other crit passive give both Crit Damage AND Crit Healing, like this mastery and Fated Fortune, at least for consistency? It won't even be a big HPS boost.

Cutthroat's Focus - you should not be the one who's getting attacked by the boss. Useless.

Share the Spoils - transfer has a 4-second CD. Do you have a Siphoning skill you wanna cast every 4th GCD? No. The best option is Healthy Offering, since it procs Pearls of Elnofey. But it's a ST-heal, so it's useless in most cases. Can you do that? Yes. But it feels really miserable. And reward is a little bit more ulti for you, 4 allies and useless sustain for them.

Overall, NB class masteries need a major overhaul to become useful; without it, pure NB DDs and healers will be completely useless.

Gabriel_H · April 16

whteva4eva wrote: »

Class Mastery Feedback – Healers & Tanks

1. Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?

For support roles (healers and tanks), the system does not currently provide a meaningful increase in power.

Support effectiveness is measured through group impact, not personal output. Most Class Mastery passives are too passive, conditional, or low-impact to significantly affect real gameplay, and therefore do not feel like a meaningful power increase when playing without subclassing.

2. Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?

Not for support roles. Subclassing currently provides:

Reliable group buffs
Resource sustain
Strong, identity-defining utility

Class Mastery does not offer an equivalent level of impact, which results in a lack of real choice. Healers and tanks are effectively forced into subclassing because the opportunity cost of losing that group utility is too high.

3. What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

It brings a strong concept with potential for build diversity, an opportunity to reinforce class identity, and opens space for alternative playstyles.

4. What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?

1. Utility is too weak compared to subclassing

Effects do not meaningfully impact group performance
Not strong enough to justify replacing subclass utility

2. Effects are too conditional or inconsistent

Health thresholds and niche triggers reduce reliability
Support roles need consistent uptime, not situational value

3. Lack of group-oriented design

Many passives feel like they were designed for DPS (self-focused bonuses)
Healers and tanks need group-wide impact, not personal gain

4. Passives are not role-defining and can be taken by DPS

Some utility passives are generic enough that DPS can take them with little tradeoff. Because of this, they are tuned conservatively, which further weakens their value for supports. This results in passives that are not strong for supports, but still accessible to DPS, creating poor role identity

5. Opportunity cost is too high

Losing subclassing means losing proven, high-impact utility. Class Mastery does not currently compensate for that loss

5. Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

For support roles, Class Mastery needs to meet a higher standard:

It should provide group utility powerful enough that a healer or tank could reasonably choose it over subclassing.

This can be achieved by:

Increasing group-wide utility, not just personal stats
Ensuring high uptime and reliability
Designing effects that are role-defining, not generic

Additionally, if certain passives are intended to serve support roles, they should be designed in a way that:

Either scales with healing/tanking behavior, or
Provides value that DPS cannot easily utilize

At its current state, the system feels overly cautious and sits in a middle ground where:

It is not strong enough for supports
But not specialized enough to justify being weak

As a result, Class Mastery does not currently function as a true alternative to subclassing for healers and tanks, and player choice in these roles remains limited.

^^ That

Tannus15 · April 16

Oshea_OK wrote: »

Tested the Master Class on PTS for the Scor.
Used a solo Oakensoul lighting HA type build (the only type of builds I play).
Got 42k on non trial and 75 on trail.

Used the two options for more DPS. First impression for this type of build is that its ok.
Not bad, but not great either.

Without more DPS or unity like Breach being part of the pure class, its not enough to make me want to give up sub-classing. For example for my solo oakensoul HA builds, the Warden line with animal for Breach (deep fisher) is just too hard not to take. This is extra important for Oakensoul solo HA builds I play.

The scor pure class option with the adding lightning dps attack (Static Reverberation) would be an honest temptation for me to give up subcalssing, if it was AOE an did minor breach for a few seconds.
Also there could be optoins in the Master class for 10 or 15% increase to HA attacks to make it more attractive to Oakensoul players.

Also the my Oakensoul HA lighting builds seem weaker on the PTS?

Empower got hit with the "damage done to monsters" nerf super hard, so yes, all HA builds are currently noticabily weaker on PTS

Faltasë · April 17

I also would like to chime in to agree that class masteries are currently not good enough to stack up to subclassing and need more group utility to support more than just damage dealing roles, as well as give the option for Tanks and Support to not pick subclassing.

ZoS, y'all do seem to have a problem with putting most of the group utility stuff behind sets, then to top it off only letting supports really flourish with subclassing is a grave error.

Like the others said, all classes need more group utility, don't just lock pure classes behind the DPS role. People are not going to pick pure classes if they can have better group utility with subclassing, and in their current state, they don't bring that value to the table.

Not to mention, a DPS role should also bring group utility to the table, not just selfish damage ceilings. Why do you think banner was/is so popular?

Echsenbruder · April 17

so here I want to talk about Necromancer's Class Masteries, and tbh, all could be better....

Pound of Flesh

while it sounds good on paper, I feel like an additional damage reduction would be nice. for example:

This passive grants you a 1% chance when taking damage to restore 10% Health and 5% of your missing Stamina, up to once every second. This chance increases by 1% for every 1% missing Health you have. For each missing percentage of Health, increase your damage reduction by 0.25%

would make you a little bit tankier, the less health you have

At the Precipice

this passive is extremely situational especially since many classes have an inbuilt selfheal so a change of the trigger is necessary or rework that passive into something like:

if you direct heal a group member under 75% health, grant them Minor Intellect and Endurance for x seconds
if you direct heal a group member under 50% health, grant them Minor Fortitude and Vitality for x seconds and also allows you to use a corpse consuming ability on them
if you direct heal a group member under 25% health, grant them Major Protection and Heroism for x seconds

would work especially well with necro, bc they're the master of undying and also give them the ability to give some groupbuffs

Nothing Wasted

I wish it has a bigger duration, the time between cutscenes and invuln of bosses is high enough to significantly reduce your stacks

Cycle Unending

I don't know why Necro is the only class in which one passive is tied to ones health. Said passive would be acceptable if this game has a combat mechanic like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter. With the adding of difficulty makes this passive nearly useless as once hit, your health will be lower than that of the enemy. Get rid of the health comparison (especially since other classes have better passives that grant them more dmg like sorc, while weaker is permanent or arc, while tied to conditions is easily achievable) and make this passive apply a debuff, which increases the dmg you deal to the enemy by 25% or smth like that

Malevolent Promise

Give this passive an additional effect to Death Gleaning 2, Minor Hindrance would work especially well.
why make this passive completely useless against players? (as far as I know also the only passive completely useless in battleground). Make it work against players but remove the Minor Hindrance debuff, for example

that's just my opinion on how Necro's Class Masteries could be made better
any suggestions are wished

GloatingSwine · April 17

whteva4eva wrote: »

Class Mastery Feedback – Healers & Tanks

1. Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?

For support roles (healers and tanks), the system does not currently provide a meaningful increase in power.

Support effectiveness is measured through group impact, not personal output. Most Class Mastery passives are too passive, conditional, or low-impact to significantly affect real gameplay, and therefore do not feel like a meaningful power increase when playing without subclassing.

2. Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?

Not for support roles. Subclassing currently provides:

Reliable group buffs
Resource sustain
Strong, identity-defining utility

Class Mastery does not offer an equivalent level of impact, which results in a lack of real choice. Healers and tanks are effectively forced into subclassing because the opportunity cost of losing that group utility is too high.

3. What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

It brings a strong concept with potential for build diversity, an opportunity to reinforce class identity, and opens space for alternative playstyles.

4. What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?

1. Utility is too weak compared to subclassing

Effects do not meaningfully impact group performance
Not strong enough to justify replacing subclass utility

2. Effects are too conditional or inconsistent

Health thresholds and niche triggers reduce reliability
Support roles need consistent uptime, not situational value

3. Lack of group-oriented design

Many passives feel like they were designed for DPS (self-focused bonuses)
Healers and tanks need group-wide impact, not personal gain

4. Passives are not role-defining and can be taken by DPS

Some utility passives are generic enough that DPS can take them with little tradeoff. Because of this, they are tuned conservatively, which further weakens their value for supports. This results in passives that are not strong for supports, but still accessible to DPS, creating poor role identity

5. Opportunity cost is too high

Losing subclassing means losing proven, high-impact utility. Class Mastery does not currently compensate for that loss

5. Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

For support roles, Class Mastery needs to meet a higher standard:

It should provide group utility powerful enough that a healer or tank could reasonably choose it over subclassing.

This can be achieved by:

Increasing group-wide utility, not just personal stats
Ensuring high uptime and reliability
Designing effects that are role-defining, not generic

Additionally, if certain passives are intended to serve support roles, they should be designed in a way that:

Either scales with healing/tanking behavior, or
Provides value that DPS cannot easily utilize

At its current state, the system feels overly cautious and sits in a middle ground where:

It is not strong enough for supports
But not specialized enough to justify being weak

As a result, Class Mastery does not currently function as a true alternative to subclassing for healers and tanks, and player choice in these roles remains limited.

I agree with most of this but I do think that DK's "Lead from the Front" mastery combined with RoJo healer specifically will be fun.

That's the only real use case I can see for supports where masteries have enough specific utility to replace subclassing though.

xylena · April 17

Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.

Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.

Freelancer_ESO · April 17

Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?

The ones I've tried so far seemed helpful.

Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?

I would say that it will likely depend on how the balance ends up shaking out in the long run.

If it makes Pure Classes competitive but not so powerful that it feels like you are shooting yourself in the foot not to play one it will expand player agency as sometimes the Pure Classes might not feel like a good option.

If it makes the Pure Classes so powerful that it feels like subclassing is shooting your character in the foot the system will be reducing agency.

What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

I like that the system will help a bit when it comes to making Pure Classes more competitive.

Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

It might be cleaner to try to even out the power a bit more on the abilities/passives rather than leaning as heavily on putting power into Class Mastery to fill the gaps.

For example, part of the reason people are running Assassination subclassed is because of the Increases your Critical Damage by 10% on Hemorrhage. You could move that over to Shadow to reduce the pressure on players to subclass into assassination without hurting Pure Class NB. Hideous Clarity and Fated Fortune could trade places on the Arcanist to drop a bit of the offensive potential away from subclassing into Herald of the Tome.

It might also be worth looking at shifting some of the value or certain powerful class abilities across lines a bit more and maybe adjusting the power of some non-class abilities. For example, it might be worth considering reducing the amount of Ultimate provided by Necrotic Potency by one of two and providing one or two ultimate on each usage of the Corpse Consumption passive. It might also be worth looking at if the Necrotic Orb and morphs should maybe be doing less resource restoration so that other abilities/items would be more competitive.

React · April 17

xylena wrote: »

Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.

Pyreband & wildfire embers on the PTS are doing absurd DPS numbers. Between those two things + burning, which are essentially all "free" sources of damage which require no thoughtful input from you, they're sometimes netting a combined 4-5k DPS.

It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset. It feels cheap and lazy compared to having passives boost the actual dot abilities of DK themselves. It's problematic in the same way that sets like relequen are problematic. Not to mention completely oppressive to fight against.

Would rather see the passive reworked to boost your dot abilities in some way. Flat % modifiers to dot damage, or perhaps scaling interactions when using multiple DK dots (shatterspike, embers/claw, burning talons, breath). Like perhaps having one of these DK dots active on your opponent will cause the next applied dot to deal x% more damage for it's duration. Just something that requires more thought than the fire and forget damage that is pyre/wildfire.

xylena wrote: »

Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.

I feel like if we're embracing the "classes can have access to infinite sustain" idea that DK now has, the mag/stam sustain isn't the main issue with conservation (even though it is nearly all the sustain you need as far as duels on the PTS go). The bigger issue I'm seeing is how much this heals now. It is #1 healing on CMX every single fight, and rewards you for stacking health which is a huge problem in PVP. For example, here is the healing on a 40k HP sorc build (which is very easy to achieve these days without giving up much).

Seems some sort of cooldown or reduction in effectiveness to the healing portion of conservation of energy is needed. I am all for buffing the pure classes to DK level, but this is like effortlessly-unkillable levels of healing (assuming you're not fighting an 8k dps pyre DK or a 10k dps WW).

Dracane · April 17

React wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.

Pyreband & wildfire embers on the PTS are doing absurd DPS numbers. Between those two things + burning, which are essentially all "free" sources of damage which require no thoughtful input from you, they're sometimes netting a combined 4-5k DPS.

It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset. It feels cheap and lazy compared to having passives boost the actual dot abilities of DK themselves. It's problematic in the same way that sets like relequen are problematic. Not to mention completely oppressive to fight against.

Would rather see the passive reworked to boost your dot abilities in some way. Flat % modifiers to dot damage, or perhaps scaling interactions when using multiple DK dots (shatterspike, embers/claw, burning talons, breath). Like perhaps having one of these DK dots active on your opponent will cause the next applied dot to deal x% more damage for it's duration. Just something that requires more thought than the fire and forget damage that is pyre/wildfire.

xylena wrote: »

Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.

I feel like if we're embracing the "classes can have access to infinite sustain" idea that DK now has, the mag/stam sustain isn't the main issue with conservation (even though it is nearly all the sustain you need as far as duels on the PTS go). The bigger issue I'm seeing is how much this heals now. It is #1 healing on CMX every single fight, and rewards you for stacking health which is a huge problem in PVP. For example, here is the healing in a duel on a 40k HP sorc build (which is very easy to achieve these days without giving up much).

Seems some sort of cooldown or reduction in effectiveness to the healing portion of conservation of energy is needed. I am all for buffing the pure classes to DK level, but this is like effortlessly-unkillable levels of healing (assuming you're not fighting an 8k dps pyre DK or a 10k dps WW).

4.7k heals from Blood Magic? Mine heal me for 1.6k in pvp at over 35k HP. The heal barely feels servicable to me. But as always, seems some builds can break anything that exists.

RedKynAbyss · April 17

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

Dracane · April 17

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

So everyone should run Mara's Balm to have a chance against DK dots? Cleanses are rare, weak and otherwise expensive. And Mara has a long cooldown.

There is no cleansing DK dots for any length of time for any normal player.

Elendildur · April 17

Dracane wrote: »

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

So everyone should run Mara's Balm to have a chance against DK dots? Cleanses are rare, weak and otherwise expensive. And Mara has a long cooldown.

There is no cleansing DK dots for any length of time for any normal player.

Cleanses are mostly expensive, but the Netch is free, and Animal Companions is already one of the top PvP skill lines

Major_Mangle · April 17

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

Go read the patch notes again, cleansing is considered "ending" which buffs the potency off upcoming wildfire stacks.

Wildfire Embers: This passive upgrades your Dragonknight damage over time effects that apply to enemies (Searing Strike, Dragonfire Breath, Burning Talons, Shatterspike Mantle) to apply a unique 12 second damage over time effect on enemies whenever the triggering abilities end. This damage effect stacks up to 12 times, increasing by 25% damage per stack past 1 (up to 275%)
“End” in this case means naturally expiring, being recast early, or being cleansed.

Edit: What´s up with people being so "anti" players who calls out actual outliers and extremes that will 100% be a problem if they go live? Same in the WW thread where people justify clearly unbalanced/broken things just because something else has been broken for a patch.

VinnyGambini · April 17

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

So I need to cleanse every 5s to survive? How I'm supposed to sustain this, and in the meantime kill my opponent? My chances are 0% here.

And I'm positive that you build wildfire stacks by JUST light attacking. Light attacks refresh pyrebrand, and refreshing pyrebrang gererates stacks. TESTED.

Dracane · April 17

Elendildur wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

So everyone should run Mara's Balm to have a chance against DK dots? Cleanses are rare, weak and otherwise expensive. And Mara has a long cooldown.

There is no cleansing DK dots for any length of time for any normal player.

Cleanses are mostly expensive, but the Netch is free, and Animal Companions is already one of the top PvP skill lines

Oh how bitterly I know... I have taken Daedric Curse off my bars. It is not going through.

BattleAxe · April 17

Major_Mangle wrote: »

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

Go read the patch notes again, cleansing is considered "ending" which buffs the potency off upcoming wildfire stacks.
Wildfire Embers: This passive upgrades your Dragonknight damage over time effects that apply to enemies (Searing Strike, Dragonfire Breath, Burning Talons, Shatterspike Mantle) to apply a unique 12 second damage over time effect on enemies whenever the triggering abilities end. This damage effect stacks up to 12 times, increasing by 25% damage per stack past 1 (up to 275%)
“End” in this case means naturally expiring, being recast early, or being cleansed.

Edit: What´s up with people being so "anti" players who calls out actual outliers and extremes that will 100% be a problem if they go live? Same in the WW thread where people justify clearly unbalanced/broken things just because something else has been broken for a patch.

I would say it’s not being anti player it’s anti nerf. The alternative and universally better request would be making cleanse abilities cheaper. Keep in mind this is an mmo with both pve and pvp. So nerfing something for PvP effects pve. It’s due to these 2 halves of the game we have seen heavy handed changes in the past. Another option is for the devs to actually split pve and PvP which they have shown they can due tweak things like make Pyrebrand half as strong in PvP for example.

YandereGirlfriend · April 17

RedKynAbyss wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Just tested out pyrebrand DK, and it's absolutely terryfying.

Pyrebrand was nerfed 30%, but new passive increases its dmg by 300%, while also adding additional dot. From my calculations (confirmed by testing) 100% - 30% = 70%. 70% * 300% = 210%. So basically pyrebrand damage is DOUBLED and additional dot is ticking. ALSO new passive stacks are generated by PYREBRAND. So by just LA (not casting any skills!!!) you can get AMAZING dps.

Meanwhile reffering to my previous templar post, aetheric lancer got 4 second longer duration, for better uptime. Comparing to pyrebrand and new passive synergy, I cannot really find words how unfair it looks.

From my todays PVP testing - DK, serpent disdain warden and sorcerer are very strong, while arcanist, nb and templar are absolute garbage. I haven't tested PvE, but I'm quite sure situation is quite similar.

You don’t get all of that power by *just* light attacking. You need to BUILD wildfire stacks FIRST, then you get the powerful DoT. Pyrebrand will be even weaker in PvP now because it is INCREDIBLY easy to stop it from getting stronger by just cleansing any wildfire stacks that are on you. If you don’t have wildfire on you, then Pyrebrand is functionally useless. You’re overreacting to this, quite severely. If you’re fighting a DK, even before their rework or Pyrebrand, or Wildfire, you NEEDED a cleanse or you would get melted. That has always been the answer to fighting a DK in PvP, cleansing their DoTs. Pyrebrand changes with Wildfire have not changed that mentality at all.

Are Wildfire stacks considered to cumulatively be one negative effect (as they should...) or is it the broken implementation where each stack is considered its own negative effect and must be cleansed individually?

Prophet_of_Malacath · April 17

I'll state the obvious - in that it'll be difficult to give useful feedback on non-refreshed classes. It's like being asked to judge add-on features of a car we've yet to test-drive.

I jumped into sub-classing, enthusiastically, because some groups would just auto-reject certain classes - and I get it. Tanking? I sub-class Arcanist w/ some DK. DPS? I sub-class Arcanist w/ some Templar. Healing? I sub-class Warden w/ some Templar. These were all way more straight-forward, especially the non-DPS. I'm enthusiastically awaiting Necro & Sorc (Dark Magic) refreshes as I'd like to do a sub-class for aesthetic/RP reasons.

But I don't recognize pure NB enough (despite being my Main), let alone what it will become in the future, to figure out what to think of the Class Masteries.

So I hope these remain flexible until the remaining classes get updates!

xylena · April 17

React wrote: »

It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset.

As a dot enjoyer 100% agree, pressure builds should need to land a solid rotation and dynamically refresh dots to be effective, not just close your eyes and spam 1-2 buttons. I'd like to see more 5sec dot SKILLS like Talons or Acid Spray that encourage dynamic rotations and use of burst combos on pressure playstyles, not brainless set-and-forget proc spam.

If I have any problem with WW it's not the 10k ceiling under controlled conditions, it's the 1-2 button spam having such high impact, as opposed to needing to perfectly land a rotation with 5 different skills on StamSorc to kill at 8k. At least WW needs to be in melee range which is an actual drawback in open world. Pyrebrand/Wildfire procs off ranged LA spam.

guarstompemoji · April 17

Warden getting both Major Brittle and Major Heroism stacks them for support use. MB alone encourages a full warden on any roster.

Major Heroism should proc on overheal to be useful, and it would be nice to shift it to a different class's support mastery.

The ideal is all of these are so good that players debate over which one they WANT to run and are excited about.

Alchimiste1 · April 17

Nb ones suck. Sub classing provides much more