U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭guarstompemoji wrote: »Warden getting both Major Brittle and Major Heroism stacks them for support use. MB alone encourages a full warden on any roster.
Major Heroism should proc on overheal to be useful, and it would be nice to shift it to a different class's support mastery.
The ideal is all of these are so good that players debate over which one they WANT to run and are excited about.
Definitely.
The Brittle passive is the model that other support passives should follow. It takes something that a class is already doing and makes it stronger.
AFAIK, though, the Heroism passive is still time-gated at one potential proc per second (so one target per second) which renders it completely irrelevant in a trial scenario. In addition to having to heal actual damage, which is a condition that holds back many sets and abilities that otherwise would/could be good (cough Gossamer set cough).
Moving the Heroism passive over to Necro (which so far has literally zero group support Masteries... yikes!) and making it easier to proc would be terrific.1 -
dhoward5b14_ESO✭✭✭I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Edited by dhoward5b14_ESO on 17 April 2026 23:362 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.2 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.0 -
Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?
It's a perfect first step to balance subclassing.
But there is one more thing you can do: a simple class passive rework.
Do a full pass on all Class skill lines and tweak them following a pattern where each Class skill line has:- 2 unconditional passives
- 1 passive that requires slotting a skill from that line on the current bar
- 1 passive that stacks based on the number of skills slotted on both bars from the base class of the skill line
Creating this consistent pattern would automatically shift the playing field toward balance, and offer a simple universal control hook to fine-tune the gap.
You could also make things that enhance "Class Skills" (such as the Class Embodiment bonus in IA or the unique 5% Solar Barrage buff) only apply to the base class (wherever that's not already the case).2 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.
Considering dks lost 10% dmg done from molten whip or 7k from flame lash asking for our dmg done passive being easier to keep up and get to max stacks is not much of an ask honestly. Dks are only just keeping up dmg with class masteries to what they are doing on live servers.1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.
Considering dks lost 10% dmg done from molten whip or 7k from flame lash asking for our dmg done passive being easier to keep up and get to max stacks is not much of an ask honestly. Dks are only just keeping up dmg with class masteries to what they are doing on live servers.
At the same time they remain the only reworked class, while still gaining access to comparatively good masteries.1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.
Considering dks lost 10% dmg done from molten whip or 7k from flame lash asking for our dmg done passive being easier to keep up and get to max stacks is not much of an ask honestly. Dks are only just keeping up dmg with class masteries to what they are doing on live servers.
At the same time they remain the only reworked class, while still gaining access to comparatively good masteries.
Warden will be reworked update 51 and become the second reworked class so then what? Also again class masteries have only allowed dk to stay roughly were they are on live. The only thing dk mains seem to be asking for is landslide to bea bit more consistent by either increased time before stacks fall off and or the time it takes to reach max stacks fall to be brought down from 50s (30s with one skill being active). Most other classes with dmg done modifiers start with them and don’t have to build them up for max value.1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.
Considering dks lost 10% dmg done from molten whip or 7k from flame lash asking for our dmg done passive being easier to keep up and get to max stacks is not much of an ask honestly. Dks are only just keeping up dmg with class masteries to what they are doing on live servers.
At the same time they remain the only reworked class, while still gaining access to comparatively good masteries.
Warden will be reworked update 51 and become the second reworked class so then what? Also again class masteries have only allowed dk to stay roughly were they are on live. The only thing dk mains seem to be asking for is landslide to bea bit more consistent by either increased time before stacks fall off and or the time it takes to reach max stacks fall to be brought down from 50s (30s with one skill being active). Most other classes with dmg done modifiers start with them and don’t have to build them up for max value.
They said that the warden masteries are basically generic placeholders, but apart from that the current purpose of the masteries is to bridge the gap between pure classes and subclassed builds, and between reworked classes and pre-rework classes. I get that people would like a buff to this passive, but personally I don't feel that this is either needed or justified at this point. Even within just one buff cycle of Shatterspike Mantle you can reach more than half of the modifiers maximum power. A generic 5+ % on everything is already fairly good by class passive standards. The maximum cap shouldn't necessarily suggest that the classes performance would direly hinge on full uptime of the 10-stack. It is just week 1, but it is still looking like this update will be another net buff anyway. Considering the 10% whip buff was declared to be a band aid fix to begin with.Edited by Vaqual on 18 April 2026 07:340 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.
Pyreband & wildfire embers on the PTS are doing absurd DPS numbers. Between those two things + burning, which are essentially all "free" sources of damage which require no thoughtful input from you, they're sometimes netting a combined 4-5k DPS.
It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset. It feels cheap and lazy compared to having passives boost the actual dot abilities of DK themselves. It's problematic in the same way that sets like relequen are problematic. Not to mention completely oppressive to fight against.
Would rather see the passive reworked to boost your dot abilities in some way. Flat % modifiers to dot damage, or perhaps scaling interactions when using multiple DK dots (shatterspike, embers/claw, burning talons, breath). Like perhaps having one of these DK dots active on your opponent will cause the next applied dot to deal x% more damage for it's duration. Just something that requires more thought than the fire and forget damage that is pyre/wildfire.Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.
I feel like if we're embracing the "classes can have access to infinite sustain" idea that DK now has, the mag/stam sustain isn't the main issue with conservation (even though it is nearly all the sustain you need as far as duels on the PTS go). The bigger issue I'm seeing is how much this heals now. It is #1 healing on CMX every single fight, and rewards you for stacking health which is a huge problem in PVP. For example, here is the healing in a duel on a 40k HP sorc build (which is very easy to achieve these days without giving up much).
Seems some sort of cooldown or reduction in effectiveness to the healing portion of conservation of energy is needed. I am all for buffing the pure classes to DK level, but this is like effortlessly-unkillable levels of healing (assuming you're not fighting an 8k dps pyre DK or a 10k dps WW).
4.7k heals from Blood Magic? Mine heal me for 1.6k in pvp at over 35k HP. The heal barely feels servicable to me. But as always, seems some builds can break anything that exists.
That Blood Magic screenshot was mine, taken in a duel. Trust me, it could get worse with the healing lol.
My suggestion for Conservation is to proc Blood Magic off Sorc abilities only, similar to Font of Power. This would greatly reduce Blood Magic's potency as it can no longer proc off Vigor, Healing Soul, etc.Edited by hoangdz on 18 April 2026 07:420 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »I really dislike Inexorable Descent being a double-down of Landslide because it can drop off fast and take too long to rebuild stacks. I currently use DK and like it (Zen and Heat Shock buff), but if this and Landslide stack time remains unchanged, I will just quit doing DK. With the damage done buff being removed from whip, my current subcass build is nerfed too much to keep.
In trash especially the double down of Landslide is bad. Other class masteries can get roughly 10% damage done within a few seconds of starting the fight.
Agreed stacks fall off to quickly if the would just make the stacks 5 seconds before falling off I think would solve most issues. I’m not as concerned personally with how long it takes to build up but it could be slightly faster 50 seconds (30s with shatter spike mantle). Perhaps 30 seconds standard then 15 seconds while using mantle.
The thing with landslide is, that it provides partial value along the way. It's not like it does nothing below 10 stacks. They gave DK this modifier with the expectation that it might not be possible to always maintain full stacks, for balance and counterplay. It doesn't really need to ramp faster, DKs damage is already excellent in the current state.
Providing partial value is all well and good but when stacks fall off after 2-3 seconds and then you gotta rebuild stacks makes the buff the passive gives negligible. When you compare other classes essentially starting a fight whether PvP or PvE at full strength
That was what I meant. DK has already the means to compete with other classes, despite their maxed out built-in modifiers. The landslide mechanic is as it stands currently more like the cherry on top, rewarding consistent engagements.
It is an annoying mechanic with unavoidable downtime. IMO, that feels quite bad and is anti-player.
Bumping it up to five-second decay is superior quality of life.
Honestly, that could even be part of that Mastery to further reward pureclassing DK.
It is easy to lose sight of balance if changes are always demanded for things to feel stronger or more convenient. That wouldn't just be a quality of life improvement, it would be a plain buff. I imagine this passive was specifically designed to help DKs in PvE meatgrinders, without giving easily accesible power to PvP setups.
Replacing the mastery that increases the scaling with the longer time could however be a reasonable consideration. Just adding it on top makes no sense currently.
Considering dks lost 10% dmg done from molten whip or 7k from flame lash asking for our dmg done passive being easier to keep up and get to max stacks is not much of an ask honestly. Dks are only just keeping up dmg with class masteries to what they are doing on live servers.
At the same time they remain the only reworked class, while still gaining access to comparatively good masteries.
Warden will be reworked update 51 and become the second reworked class so then what? Also again class masteries have only allowed dk to stay roughly were they are on live. The only thing dk mains seem to be asking for is landslide to bea bit more consistent by either increased time before stacks fall off and or the time it takes to reach max stacks fall to be brought down from 50s (30s with one skill being active). Most other classes with dmg done modifiers start with them and don’t have to build them up for max value.
They said that the warden masteries are basically generic placeholders, but apart from that the current purpose of the masteries is to bridge the gap between pure classes and subclassed builds, and between reworked classes and pre-rework classes. I get that people would like a buff to this passive, but personally I don't feel that this is either needed or justified at this point. Even within just one buff cycle of Shatterspike Mantle you can reach more than half of the modifiers maximum power. A generic 5+ % on everything is already fairly good by class passive standards. The maximum cap shouldn't necessarily suggest that the classes performance would direly hinge on full uptime of the 10-stack. It is just week 1, but it is still looking like this update will be another net buff anyway. Considering the 10% whip buff was declared to be a band aid fix to begin with.
The 10%whip buff came from removing the weapon/spell damage each stack gave which got changed to damage done and is now gone completely. Landslide gives 1 stack every 10 seconds plus mantle helps alittle but if u don’t deal dmg every 2 seconds stacks fall off thus resetting to 0%. A lot of dk mains myself included would disagree about wanting landslide to at very least not fall off after 2 seconds the added request of lowering time taken to reach max stacks goes into helping support dk roles with the one new class mastery adding 1% bonus to healing and dmg shield strength as it will be much more difficult for support dks particularly healer dks to maintain good uptime on landslide to utilize the class mastery at even as you say 5% increase.1 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.
Pyreband & wildfire embers on the PTS are doing absurd DPS numbers. Between those two things + burning, which are essentially all "free" sources of damage which require no thoughtful input from you, they're sometimes netting a combined 4-5k DPS.
It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset. It feels cheap and lazy compared to having passives boost the actual dot abilities of DK themselves. It's problematic in the same way that sets like relequen are problematic. Not to mention completely oppressive to fight against.
Would rather see the passive reworked to boost your dot abilities in some way. Flat % modifiers to dot damage, or perhaps scaling interactions when using multiple DK dots (shatterspike, embers/claw, burning talons, breath). Like perhaps having one of these DK dots active on your opponent will cause the next applied dot to deal x% more damage for it's duration. Just something that requires more thought than the fire and forget damage that is pyre/wildfire.Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.
I feel like if we're embracing the "classes can have access to infinite sustain" idea that DK now has, the mag/stam sustain isn't the main issue with conservation (even though it is nearly all the sustain you need as far as duels on the PTS go). The bigger issue I'm seeing is how much this heals now. It is #1 healing on CMX every single fight, and rewards you for stacking health which is a huge problem in PVP. For example, here is the healing in a duel on a 40k HP sorc build (which is very easy to achieve these days without giving up much).
Seems some sort of cooldown or reduction in effectiveness to the healing portion of conservation of energy is needed. I am all for buffing the pure classes to DK level, but this is like effortlessly-unkillable levels of healing (assuming you're not fighting an 8k dps pyre DK or a 10k dps WW).
4.7k heals from Blood Magic? Mine heal me for 1.6k in pvp at over 35k HP. The heal barely feels servicable to me. But as always, seems some builds can break anything that exists.
That Blood Magic screenshot was mine, taken in a duel. Trust me, it could get worse with the healing lol.
My suggestion for Conservation is to proc Blood Magic off Sorc abilities only, similar to Font of Power. This would greatly reduce Blood Magic's potency as it can no longer proc off Vigor, Healing Soul, etc.
I def see that when Sorc gets its rework. Rn Heart of Flame provides better sustain and healing.3 -
randconfig✭✭✭✭✭
So more stat stacking over time like the class script and like death dealer's fete mythic... I guess that's good for numbers...Nothing Wasted: This passive upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to also grant a stack of Nothing Wasted for 12 seconds every time you consume a corpse, up to 10 stacks max. Nothing Wasted increases your Max Health and Weapon and Spell Damage by 2% per stack. If the stacks reach their full duration, they instead lose 3 stacks and refresh, rather than losing all stacks.Cycle Unending: This passive upgrades rank 2 of Reusable Parts to also grant Lord of the Cycle for 25 seconds, increasing your damage done by 1% for every 1% more current Health percent you have compared to your enemy. This bonus caps at 25% (12% against players).
This one sounds not that great in PvP, but good for numbers in PvE...Pound of Flesh: This passive grants you a 1% chance when taking damage to restore 10% Health and 5% of your missing Stamina, up to once every second. This chance increases by 1% for every 1% missing Health you have.
This one is good for more survivability, but still essentially resource numbers...At the Precipice: This passive activates when directly healing a target below 50% Health, which allows you to use a corpse consuming ability against them within 10 seconds. Consuming or replacing this effect grants the target 2 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every second.
I'm not even a healer, and I know this is a weak passive....Malevolent Promise: This passive upgrades rank 2 of Corpse Consumption to mark the closest non-player enemy to you with death’s touch for 6 seconds whenever you consume a corpse, which allows you to use a corpse consuming ability against them. This can occur once every 2 seconds. Consuming or replacing this effect triggers rank 2 of Death Gleaning.
Finally a class mastery that sounds interesting/fun to use, except we can't use it in PvP "closest non-player enemy". That is actually so disappointing, just when I think Necromancer cannot get shafted any harder, then all classes get interesting unique masteries, and we get numbers and a quality of life update in the form of a class mastery that we cannot even use in PvP.
Also if you can make allies corpses for At the Precipice, there's seemingly no technical limitation as to why this shouldn't be allowed to work on enemy players. It implies you think Necromancer is somehow strong or overperforming in PVP in it's current tragic state, that's insane to me.
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randconfig✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?
Why is the Necromancer passive Malevolent Promise restricted to non-player enemies?
It feels counterintuitive when Corpse Consumers struggle to be effective specifically in PvP due to their stationary nature. I was so excited to potentially gain an interesting DoT ability to use in PvP, only to realize that it would not work on Player Enemies.
Exactly. Holy cow, I'm beyond disappointed, again. Necromancers just never get anything fun, just micromanaging stacks, short duration buffs, broken tethers, broken summons, nerfed/removed stalking blastbones, overly expensive Animated Blastbones ultimate that fails half the time with the summons immediately despawning if you aren't already in combat and close to an enemy. I don't want more numbers and stacking mechanics, I want the class I love and play to not feel like work to play, which is why this ONE mastery had me excited when it was described as working on ANY enemy
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aces-High-82 wrote: »Pyrebrand shouldn't interact with Wildfire Embers. Procs aren't supposed to proc procs.
Pyreband & wildfire embers on the PTS are doing absurd DPS numbers. Between those two things + burning, which are essentially all "free" sources of damage which require no thoughtful input from you, they're sometimes netting a combined 4-5k DPS.
It's cool to see a playstyle avenue for dot DK via that mastery passive, but I really hate that we're embracing the "my light attacks cause you to take 5k DPS" mindset. It feels cheap and lazy compared to having passives boost the actual dot abilities of DK themselves. It's problematic in the same way that sets like relequen are problematic. Not to mention completely oppressive to fight against.
Would rather see the passive reworked to boost your dot abilities in some way. Flat % modifiers to dot damage, or perhaps scaling interactions when using multiple DK dots (shatterspike, embers/claw, burning talons, breath). Like perhaps having one of these DK dots active on your opponent will cause the next applied dot to deal x% more damage for it's duration. Just something that requires more thought than the fire and forget damage that is pyre/wildfire.Conservation of Energy makes Blood for Blood full resource positive on all 3 pools. You spam it and all 3 resource pools go up. This maybe shouldn't proc on skills that cost health.
I feel like if we're embracing the "classes can have access to infinite sustain" idea that DK now has, the mag/stam sustain isn't the main issue with conservation (even though it is nearly all the sustain you need as far as duels on the PTS go). The bigger issue I'm seeing is how much this heals now. It is #1 healing on CMX every single fight, and rewards you for stacking health which is a huge problem in PVP. For example, here is the healing in a duel on a 40k HP sorc build (which is very easy to achieve these days without giving up much).
Seems some sort of cooldown or reduction in effectiveness to the healing portion of conservation of energy is needed. I am all for buffing the pure classes to DK level, but this is like effortlessly-unkillable levels of healing (assuming you're not fighting an 8k dps pyre DK or a 10k dps WW).
4.7k heals from Blood Magic? Mine heal me for 1.6k in pvp at over 35k HP. The heal barely feels servicable to me. But as always, seems some builds can break anything that exists.
That Blood Magic screenshot was mine, taken in a duel. Trust me, it could get worse with the healing lol.
My suggestion for Conservation is to proc Blood Magic off Sorc abilities only, similar to Font of Power. This would greatly reduce Blood Magic's potency as it can no longer proc off Vigor, Healing Soul, etc.
I def see that when Sorc gets its rework. Rn Heart of Flame provides better sustain and healing.
Indeed. For now I think the passive is just fine outside of some abuse cases. (StamSorc and Werewolf namely) MagSorc needed this desperately. Now at least I can spam shields, even if they melt before I even finished the animation.Edited by Dracane on 18 April 2026 12:39Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc Conservation of Energy should only proc on Sorc class skills, or otherwise have its proc conditions restricted (can buff the numbers a little if the frequency would be less). For example this really doesn't need to proc off roll dodge or WW skills.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorc Conservation of Energy should only proc on Sorc class skills, or otherwise have its proc conditions restricted (can buff the numbers a little if the frequency would be less). For example this really doesn't need to proc off roll dodge or WW skills.
Absolutely not. You only think of it from the perspective of your small duelling bubble where Werewolfs and StamSorcs run rampant.
PvE tanks, healers (maybe DDs) absolutely depend on it activating on every skill, just like normal MagSorcs will for PvP. Because Sorc barely even uses class skills, since most of them are bad.
I hope this suggestion of yours will get utterly ignored, because this would be devastating for most others. The idea behind this is to bring pure classes up to par with Subclassing. It's instantly dead on arrival for most people in most situations if this gets nerfed even more.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.12 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Sorc Conservation of Energy should only proc on Sorc class skills, or otherwise have its proc conditions restricted (can buff the numbers a little if the frequency would be less). For example this really doesn't need to proc off roll dodge or WW skills.
Absolutely not. You only think of it from the perspective of your small duelling bubble where Werewolfs and StamSorcs run rampant.
PvE tanks, healers (maybe DDs) absolutely depend on it activating on every skill, just like normal MagSorcs will for PvP. Because Sorc barely even uses class skills, since most of them are bad.
I hope this suggestion of yours will get utterly ignored, because this would be devastating for most others. The idea behind this is to bring pure classes up to par with Subclassing. It's instantly dead on arrival for most people in most situations if this gets nerfed even more.
Wholeheartedly agree here too many nerfs come from one small aspect of the game. Changes coming from a vocal minority is never gonna be good long term for the health of the game.7 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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Haven't cared about dueling since 2018, if I could test open world PvP on the PTS then I would but dueling is all we have unless 300 people are gonna show up to test Cyro.Absolutely not. You only think of it from the perspective of your small duelling bubble
If you nerf WW then WW goes back to the unplayable trash heap, meanwhile open world is all Sorcs all the time because you don't even need to look at your hp or resource bars. Meanwhile you're gonna be crying to nerf vampires because you keep dying to Sorcs abusing the interaction between Conservation and Blood for Blood.
If they rework Conservation properly, it'll be a buff to pure Sorc playstyles, and a nerf to non Sorc cheese that seeks to abuse Sorc passives without having to actually play Sorc.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP5 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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Haven't cared about dueling since 2018, if I could test open world PvP on the PTS then I would but dueling is all we have unless 300 people are gonna show up to test Cyro.Absolutely not. You only think of it from the perspective of your small duelling bubble
If you nerf WW then WW goes back to the unplayable trash heap, meanwhile open world is all Sorcs all the time because you don't even need to look at your hp or resource bars. Meanwhile you're gonna be crying to nerf vampires because you keep dying to Sorcs abusing the interaction between Conservation and Blood for Blood.
If they rework Conservation properly, it'll be a buff to pure Sorc playstyles, and a nerf to non Sorc cheese that seeks to abuse Sorc passives without having to actually play Sorc.
After the Sorc rework then, when Sorc skills are actually worth using. All we use are buffs that have to be activated every 30 seconds. Most other stuff is non-Sorc. So the passive would be useless for most. It achieves precisely what it wants to: ensure pure Sorc is competitive until its own remaster. Especially MagSorc needs it, who heavily relies on non-class and scribed skills to get by.Edited by Dracane on 18 April 2026 19:41Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.4 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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This is how you play Sorc in PvP? I don't think we are speaking the same language.All we use are buffs that have to be activated every 30 seconds
I don't care how exactly they address it, I'm pretty sure Conservation wasn't intended as an absurdly powerful buff to non Sorc playstyles. You wouldn't be complaining if they slightly reworked it to be useless for vamp/WW, but now even better for MagSorc.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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This is how you play Sorc in PvP? I don't think we are speaking the same language.All we use are buffs that have to be activated every 30 seconds
I don't care how exactly they address it, I'm pretty sure Conservation wasn't intended as an absurdly powerful buff to non Sorc playstyles. You wouldn't be complaining if they slightly reworked it to be useless for vamp/WW, but now even better for MagSorc.
We do not speak the same language, because we essentially play completely different classes. Our struggles are not the same.
I am curious how you would ensure the passives remains good (Somehow even better?) for MagSorc whilst not affecting Werewolf. I doubt you are satisfied with making it exclude Werewolf somehow. You want it to only work on class skills.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I'm not invested in that, devs arne't gonna care about random player suggestions, developing solutions is their job not mine. My point was that it should belong to Sorc. I don't put much time into MagSorc but yes I know how to play it and how it works. StamSorc I've spent years on.I am curious how you would ensure the passives remains good (Somehow even better?) for MagSorc whilst not affecting Werewolf. I doubt you are satisfied with making it exclude Werewolf somehow. You want it to only work on class skills.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I'm not invested in that, devs arne't gonna care about random player suggestions, developing solutions is their job not mine. My point was that it should belong to Sorc. I don't put much time into MagSorc but yes I know how to play it and how it works. StamSorc I've spent years on.I am curious how you would ensure the passives remains good (Somehow even better?) for MagSorc whilst not affecting Werewolf. I doubt you are satisfied with making it exclude Werewolf somehow. You want it to only work on class skills.
I would like it to be Sorc's as well. And I think you hold more sway than you think. All things considered, not too many people speak here frequently and passionately. I recall your Hardened Ward threads from 2024. They succeeded.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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If that were true, Rushing Agony would've been swallowed by the sun by now. But thanks.I would like it to be Sorc's as well. And I think you hold more sway than you think. All things considered, not too many people speak here frequently and passionately. I recall your Hardened Ward threads from 2024. They succeeded.
Conservation of Energy needs to remain strong because it's important for Sorc to be able to compete with DK and WW. It can and should remain that strong while removing any degenerate interactions with non Sorc playstyles or generics.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
Gh0stDaddySoul ShrivenThese are such a great idea and much needed. However there I believe that there is still work to be done.
First, I'm not sure that 2 lines are strong enough to compete with subclassing. I think 3 would be more fair and realistic.
Second, I think that only having 5 choices is way too limiting for both pve and pvp. In theory, I think that there should be something like 2 tank choices, 2 healer choices, several dps choices and some that might be useful for pvp. 5 is just to restrictive, 7 I think is the bare minimum, but 10 would be better. For example, the Sorcerer's Conservation of Energy only provides self recovery and the Nightblade's Share the Spoils only does others. These are just too restrictive because they are trying to do too much. If I'm a Sorcerer and I want group recovery I have no choices. If I'm a Nightblade and I want self recovery I have no choices.
Also, some of the support choices need to be reconsidered as they have redundant buffs or insubstantial support choices. For example, Dragonknight's Lead From the Front includes Major Protection as a buff. This is now an easily accessible group buff as it's on Hearth and Home and should already be present. It would be nice to get a group buff that is not in the kit.
Nightblade:
Above and Beyond:
This line needs to include a size amount of ignoring enemies critical resistance. As any crit increase will be countered by impen and overpowered Rallying Cry (please see my forum post).
Dragonknight:
Booming Voice:
This isn't a great choice as after using your ultimate is the time that you need recovery least. Please rework this to provide something more useful.1