U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf

Yarcanine · April 16

Feedback on the Werewolf Rework (PTS)
Overall, I think the refreshed Werewolf abilities feel really solid and the rework is a big step in the right direction. The new mechanics feel fun to play and the kit finally has some nice flow to it.

Do the refreshed abilities correctly portray the mechanics of the ability?
Yes, for the most part they do. The abilities feel like they match their intended purpose and the animations are mostly clear and satisfying.
Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?
The single-target damage feels strong, and the self-healing is in a good spot as well. The new animations are mostly great too — they feel weighty and feral, which is exactly what I want from a werewolf.
Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?
There are a few things that feel off:
Blood Rage stacking – I wish Pounce and Carnage also generated stacks of Blood Rage. Right now it feels a bit clunky having to rely only on Roar and Claws to build stacks before using Gnash. Adding stacks to Pounce and Carnage would make the rotation feel much more natural and intuitive.

Carnage animation – The animation for Carnage is hard to tell when it actually goes off in combat. It would be really helpful to add a clear red visual effect (or something similar) so players can easily see when the ability has been used and landed.

Feral Cruelty passive (formerly Savage Strength) – This passive appears to be bugged and is not working for Werewolf at all on PTS. It would be great if this could be fixed.

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?
One small but important quality-of-life request: please consider adding Minor Resolve to the Feral Cruelty passive (once it’s fixed). Almost every other class has easy access to Minor Resolve through skills like Vigor, and it would bring Werewolf in line. Additionally, the 33% increased Weapon Damage in the Feral Cruelty passive is a strong lever — if the damage output needs adjusting after the bug is fixed, this percentage could be easily tweaked as needed. So far, Werewolf looks really strong in 1v1 scenarios, but we have still yet to test it properly in Battlegrounds and open world areas to see how it performs when outnumbered and in grouped scenarios. Thanks for the rework! Werewolf is feeling a lot better than it has in a long time. Looking forward to seeing how these changes develop.

Faltasë · April 16

Please reduce the glow of the morph tattoos on the werewolf by like 75%. I know you can reduce glow, the light intensity and the glow bleed on the character models is ugly and tacky and takes away from the actual werewolf experience. We want to play a werewolf, not a cyberpunk dog.

Darkness734 · April 16

I really hope the DEVs dont listen to the vocal minority calling for nerfs. The werewolf rework is nearly perfect it just needs access to weapon passives and better werewolf sustain for solo berserker play.

To the people calling for nerfs, literally just wait. THE PURPOSE OF EACH REWORK IS TO MAKE IT VIABLE. that means they'll get to your class. The DK already had its stats skyrocketed, eventually they'll do every class, so literally just be patient.
Something you guys calling for nerfs need to just accept is that right now with reworks going on THE GAME WILL BE UNBALANCED. Yes there will be an annoying amount of werewolves, accept it and move on. Just like how there was a surge of Pure DK's and just like there will be a surge of each class that receives a rework going forward. in the end each class will be somewhat on par with each other so stop complaining about something you dont even play, and adapt. Overcoming difficulty is the fun of the game.

The werewolves NEED THIS BUFF . Werewolves are a pseudo class. It requires abandoning skills and passives of your class/multiclass to even use and even then you have to focus on it. It is a ONE BAR class so yes each skill is going to look and feel OP to make up for defenses / offenses and lack of versatility. They absolutely should be on par with the top sweaty builds because Its for people to enjoy and have fun without worrying about memorizing 20 different button combos and trying to keep up 30 buffs at a time, while also light attack weaving (which should not even be a thing).

Please Devs keep it the way it is. Werewolves being crappy prior to this is why I quit playing, and it will be the only reason I come back. Don't listen to them, They simply shouldnt be charging head first into a raging werewolf without a plan. Being a werewolf is a ultimate and a class and it should be treated as such and shouldnt be changed for those who dont engage with it at all.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · April 16

Please reconsider the punishing ultimate drain in combat. Having to drop wolf form when you need it most is very frustrating.

Radiate77 · April 16

Ataskir wrote: »

How about y’all just duel this out or something? That’ll probably give you all the info you need on this!

I’d put my money on @Wuuffyy any day of the week.
Especially Wolf v Wolf.

Dracane · April 16

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Erickson9610 · April 16

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

Dracane · April 16

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

That's why.

Erickson9610 · April 16

Dracane wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

That's why.

60 ticks of Relequen's, for a total of 32,312 damage... that's 538 damage per tick on average. Likewise, 33 ticks of Static Reverbation, for a total of 19,005 damage, which is 575 damage per tick on average.

The other abilities in the death recap look normal. If the issue is with Sorcerer's Class Mastery "Static Reverbation" or the Relequen's set, then the issue isn't a Werewolf issue.

The death recap shows that this fight went on for a full minute, given that Relequen's had 60 ticks and they happen at a rate of 1 tick per second. Static Reverbation has a chance to proc once every 200 ms when dealing damage, increasing per % of missing Health the target has, so really, I don't get how this is relevant to Werewolf at all. It sounds like the passive is overtuned, which is by design, so a Pureclass Sorcerer who is also a Werewolf would want to use it.

Once again, you are still your Class even when you transform into a Werewolf. Instead of asking for Werewolf to be exempt from using Class Masteries (which makes no sense, as you might as well ask Vampire's Blood Scion ability to be exempt too) the focus should be on adjusting the Class Mastery passives themselves.

A Sorcerer can use any skill they have available to them, so long as they do not Subclass, to gain access to Static Reverbation. Anyone can use Relequen's. Relequen's procs Static Reverbation. You give up Subclassing skills in order to have this setup, and you even further give up all non-Werewolf abilities to use this setup in Werewolf form.

Dracane · April 16

Some of these talents need Battle Spirit

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

That's why.

60 ticks of Relequen's, for a total of 32,312 damage... that's 538 damage per tick on average. Likewise, 33 ticks of Static Reverbation, for a total of 19,005 damage, which is 575 damage per tick on average.

The other abilities in the death recap look normal. If the issue is with Sorcerer's Class Mastery "Static Reverbation" or the Relequen's set, then the issue isn't a Werewolf issue.

The death recap shows that this fight went on for a full minute, given that Relequen's had 60 ticks and they happen at a rate of 1 tick per second. Static Reverbation has a chance to proc once every 200 ms when dealing damage, increasing per % of missing Health the target has, so really, I don't get how this is relevant to Werewolf at all. It sounds like the passive is overtuned, which is by design, so a Pureclass Sorcerer who is also a Werewolf would want to use it.

Once again, you are still your Class even when you transform into a Werewolf. Instead of asking for Werewolf to be exempt from using Class Masteries (which makes no sense, as you might as well ask Vampire's Blood Scion ability to be exempt too) the focus should be on adjusting the Class Mastery passives themselves.

A Sorcerer can use any skill they have available to them, so long as they do not Subclass, to gain access to Static Reverbation. Anyone can use Relequen's. Relequen's procs Static Reverbation. You give up Subclassing skills in order to have this setup, and you even further give up all non-Werewolf abilities to use this setup in Werewolf form.

It's more an issue with Static Reverberation being quite broken with builds that can stack a lot of dots and damage instances.
I think it should get further Battle Spirit adjustments, and Font of Power, like the Wrathful Strikes CP, should only boost damage abilities and exclude heals.

huskandhunger · April 16

Dracane wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

That's why.

Then the issue is actually with Static Reverberation from Sorcerer and Relequen the set. Which if these can be abused by high damage over time rotations, 2 bar setups pose an even greater opportunity for player abuse with access to more dots.

@ZOS_GinaBruno perhaps consider increasing the cool down of damage of Arms of Relequen and Static Reverberation to 2 seconds per stack and 1.3 seconds respectively to allow set and class mastery / build diversity.

Dracane · April 16

huskandhunger wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Pure class passives should not work while in Werewolf form. That is really all.

Why is that? Class Mastery passives are the reward we get for not cherry picking our Class passives via Subclassing. We can't even use most of our Class Mastery or Class passives!

That's why.

Then the issue is actually with Static Reverberation from Sorcerer and Relequen the set. Which if these can be abused by high damage over time rotations, 2 bar setups pose an even greater opportunity for player abuse with access to more dots.

@ZOS_GinaBruno perhaps consider increasing the cool down of damage of Arms of Relequen and Static Reverberation to 2 seconds per stack and 1.3 seconds respectively to allow set and class mastery / build diversity.

It's only specific builds like Werewolf and dual wield Stamsorc that break this so much. The passive itself would be totally fine, if not underpowered if it wasn't for that.

So I think you have the right of it. Increase the damage by a lot but give it a much longer cooldown. This way it shows a predictable performance on any build without being abused by Werewolves and certain setups.

xylena · April 16

huskandhunger wrote: »

Then the issue is actually with Static Reverberation from Sorcerer and Relequen the set.

The 6-8% or whatever from Static Reverb is not why WW does 10k dps. Relequen is consistently 20% of that and definitely doesn't belong in PvP, yet they're getting similar results without it. So what is pushing the damage of WW LA-Rip spam to such insane levels?

Major_Mangle · April 16

xylena wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

Then the issue is actually with Static Reverberation from Sorcerer and Relequen the set.

The 6-8% or whatever from Static Reverb is not why WW does 10k dps. Relequen is consistently 20% of that and definitely doesn't belong in PvP, yet they're getting similar results without it. So what is pushing the damage of WW LA-Rip spam to such insane levels?

The sorc class masteries are a big reason that you can achieve these values. One of the main issues with ww on live is how hard it is to sustain. With Conservation of energy (combined with the reduced cost of new the ww abilities), sustain becomes a non issue to the point where you can run way more damage than before (or survivability if you wish).

Some of the reworked ww abilities also offers significantly more damage than on live. Conclusion is that it's the synergy between a lot of things.

Values should definitely be looked at (give me a generic stat squish across all content in pvp and pve please), because any patch where ww is ridiculously overtuned (Elsweyr, Murkmire enchant meta, markarth hp recovery ww etc) only ever leads to balance swings to the opposite end of being viable. Ww should be viable, but not to the potential we see on PTS currently. Can't say what would be the best way for adjustment, but some of these offensive values are a bit over the top.

xylena · April 16

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Conservation of energy

You're the first person to specifically mention Conservation. Yeah it's a pretty insane passive and I would wager that's a big factor in enabling insane dueling performance, but the most insane damage is just straight LA spam. That's why we need WW duels from other classes.

Maybe WW should have its own unique Class Mastery.

Waillyam23 · April 16

Did some more testing with sets that seems to be really good on the new WW.

Savage Werewolf - 130k spam bloody gnash

Blood Drinker - 129k spam bloody gnash

Aegis Caller - 130k spam bloody gnash

Those three sets give the same single target damage, but Blood Drinker is the clear winner here: it doesn't have the draw back of aegis caller on fights with a lot of movement and does more aoe damage than the Savage Werewolf.

/!\ those sets do not work well with Claw Fury spam, as you cannot light attack for 4.7sec and the damage type is Physical and not bleed.

If you have other sets in mind, let me know

hoangdz · April 16

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would love a video showing prior to setup on both sides plus duel itself!

It wasn't a duel. We both stood still parsing each other like parsing a dummy, each rotating through offensive and defensive rotations. The goal was to test maximum DPS on WW and maximum HPS on my Sorc. As seen from the screenshots, WW sustained a 10.2k DPS in nearly 2 minutes of dueling, and I sustained 10k+ HPS.

In an actual duel that DPS would most likely be around 8.5k-9k (accounting for blocking and roll dodges), which is still an absurd amount. Keep in mind, WW is still missing the 33% WD modifier due to a bug.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Please also include the 'generic meta DK build' for comparison if you do this (Pyrebrand DK as you mentioned it is darn-close to the wolf spec you're getting hit by) so that we have something for reference as a base to compare to (I still hate that player skill and latency can cause discrepancy but it should be sufficient for highlighting these potential issues never the less.).

The generic meta build is just Zaan + Pyrebrand + Vate ice staff and the new DK class masteries. That one does around 8k DPS, but has more burst.

Both specs are currently overtuned on PTS. Interestingly enough, that DK spec cannot kill WW because they're stacking 40k+ HP.

xylena · April 16

hoangdz wrote: »

In an actual duel

Can we see some real results of actual duels? On Sorc and non-Sorc WW?

Even if lopsided my 8k dps on StamSorc was actually a duel, not a parse.

Panderbander · April 16

I'm just gonna say, if the concern is "I took high damage while I let someone parse on me" from a class that has no burst combo capability, that's not really a problem. If a class is capable of dealing a sustained pressure of 6-8k during a duel but is then capable of hitting a burst of 20k plus in a short window, 90% of the time that class will win a fight. If anything, it's an argument that when a class has no proper burst combo, they should have higher pressure than normal.

hoangdz · April 16

xylena wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

In an actual duel

Can we see some real results of actual duels? On Sorc and non-Sorc WW?

Even if lopsided my 8k dps on StamSorc was actually a duel, not a parse.

Sure i’ll record some when I log on. I haven’t seen any Sorcs doing sustained 8k DPS yet, but I’m curious to see that in a real fight.

dark_hunterxmg · April 16

So far is looks like all of the extra high damage examples are very specific setups with a class mastery interaction. These do not indicate a problem with Werewolf overall. These are also examples of dueling and not open world, which will be significantly different.

The healing is only okay if you are in someone's face spamming rip and tear. By spamming, I mean mashing buttons like you're playing a stage fighter. It's not fun. Try fighting without spamming that one skill and see how long the weak burst heal keeps you alive. In open world situations, you won't be able to stay in someone's face while multiple people are attacking and definitely not from ranged players.

The spammable doesn't hit hard. All of the werewolf damage is made up from dots and status effects. There is no immediate feedback that something has even happened. Again, not fun for me.

Let's stop with the 1bar/2bar elitism. You don't play Werewolf. Some of us do play it and it should be able to compete. 1bar has far less utility than 2bar, and that matters. We've had to build dig deep to survive meta 2 bar builds.

Werewolf has had to deal with being F-tier for a long time. Mag Sorcerer meta, Warden acuity meta, and now Dragonknight corrosive/onslaught whip meta have all been significantly more difficult to play against as a Werewolf. Let's maybe get this thing working well before saying it's OP because of some interaction.

Overamera · April 16

Wuffy here clearly just dont want his fav playstyle nerfed. The damage WW is putting in PvP is ridiculous and clearly needs a change. @Wuffy stop demanding proof from others. Unless you go and duel React while he plays WW and you try to survive it and also try and kill him on a normal PvP build and show us video PROOF that WW isnt as strong as he says then clearly WW needs a nerf as everything posted points that WW is absolutely broken in PvP.

xylena · April 16

hoangdz wrote: »

Sure i’ll record some when I log on. I haven’t seen any Sorcs doing sustained 8k DPS yet, but I’m curious to see that in a real fight.

In "real fights" vs other Sorcs we're both doing 4-6k. Not doing 8k unless it's lopsided, but I've already fought Sorc players that are putting out more damage than I am.

Arunei · April 16

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would love a video showing prior to setup on both sides plus duel itself!

It wasn't a duel. We both stood still parsing each other like parsing a dummy, each rotating through offensive and defensive rotations. The goal was to test maximum DPS on WW and maximum HPS on my Sorc. As seen from the screenshots, WW sustained a 10.2k DPS in nearly 2 minutes of dueling, and I sustained 10k+ HPS.

In an actual duel that DPS would most likely be around 8.5k-9k (accounting for blocking and roll dodges), which is still an absurd amount. Keep in mind, WW is still missing the 33% WD modifier due to a bug.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Please also include the 'generic meta DK build' for comparison if you do this (Pyrebrand DK as you mentioned it is darn-close to the wolf spec you're getting hit by) so that we have something for reference as a base to compare to (I still hate that player skill and latency can cause discrepancy but it should be sufficient for highlighting these potential issues never the less.).

The generic meta build is just Zaan + Pyrebrand + Vate ice staff and the new DK class masteries. That one does around 8k DPS, but has more burst.

Both specs are currently overtuned on PTS. Interestingly enough, that DK spec cannot kill WW because they're stacking 40k+ HP.

Overamera wrote: »

Wuffy here clearly just dont want his fav playstyle nerfed. The damage WW is putting in PvP is ridiculous and clearly needs a change. @Wuffy stop demanding proof from others. Unless you go and duel React while he plays WW and you try to survive it and also try and kill him on a normal PvP build and show us video PROOF that WW isnt as strong as he says then clearly WW needs a nerf as everything posted points that WW is absolutely broken in PvP.

I'm sorry but no, just standing around hitting each other in a specific rotation without ACTUALLY dueling is NOT proof that WW is overperforming. You can't claim that treating each other like a dummy is any sort of actual testing like a real duel would be. Just like an actual dummy it doesn't take into effect actually moving around, blocking, CC, terrain, or anything else that would matter in a real fight.

And yes, we ARE allowed to demand proof that something is overperforming when that thing has been ass for so long and has only been in testing for a few days but people are already shouting for nerfs. Don't tell us not to ask for it, that only makes it seem like you're afraid of being proven wrong. Also dude has said several times iirc that they'd be happy to duel so I don't get the point in bringing that up. There has been no viable proof otherwise because again, a single duel isn't anywhere near enough of a sample size to base claims off of, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't even a real duel.

coop500 · April 16

Panderbander wrote: »

I'm just gonna say, if the concern is "I took high damage while I let someone parse on me" from a class that has no burst combo capability, that's not really a problem. If a class is capable of dealing a sustained pressure of 6-8k during a duel but is then capable of hitting a burst of 20k plus in a short window, 90% of the time that class will win a fight. If anything, it's an argument that when a class has no proper burst combo, they should have higher pressure than normal.

This is also ignoring the slew of drawbacks werewolf has (no cleanse, melee range only, no shields, no nuke ult, I could go on.)
Dueling also doesn't include battlespirit, which nerfs healing, which is the only way werewolf can survive as they have no shields and no cleanse.
Apparently that part is wrong, even though I was told otherwise. But the rest still applies, werewolf still has many weaknesses that are being almost intentionally ignored.

Major_Mangle · April 16

So far is looks like all of the extra high damage examples are very specific setups with a class mastery interaction. These do not indicate a problem with Werewolf overall. These are also examples of dueling and not open world, which will be significantly different.

With that logic nothing has ever overperformed because it´s just "a synergy between things". If something synergies too well with another thing, it becomes part of the problem. Every single patch where WW has been overtuned (Wolfhunter, Elsweyr, Murkmire and Greymoor/Markath), it´s been because WW had such insanely good synergy with certain tools that patch. It´s the synergy that make certain things overtuned, ESO PvP doesn´t work in a convenient vacuum like that. You know very well that anyone that wants to be competitive in ESO tends to lean towards whatever synergy/combination works the best.

Werewolf has had to deal with being F-tier for a long time. Mag Sorcerer meta, Warden acuity meta, and now Dragonknight corrosive/onslaught whip meta have all been significantly more difficult to play against as a Werewolf. Let's maybe get this thing working well before saying it's OP because of some interaction.

Sure WW hasn´t been good in a while, but people are arguing that doing 40-50% more sustained DPS in PvP (with or without relequen), compared to the highest damage outputs on live, while requiring way less output/effort, is balanced. And this is with WW missing out on 33% more weapon damage because of a bugged passive.

I´m no "anti WW" player, I used to play a lot of WW with some of the most competent WW theorycrafters in the game on PCEU, but as "interesting" as it would be to see it go live, it would just be another overtuned playstyle that gets neutered 1-2 updates later. Better to reduce the extremes to enable a healthier PvP environment than opening pandoras box.

coop500 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

I'm just gonna say, if the concern is "I took high damage while I let someone parse on me" from a class that has no burst combo capability, that's not really a problem. If a class is capable of dealing a sustained pressure of 6-8k during a duel but is then capable of hitting a burst of 20k plus in a short window, 90% of the time that class will win a fight. If anything, it's an argument that when a class has no proper burst combo, they should have higher pressure than normal.

This is also ignoring the slew of drawbacks werewolf has (no cleanse, melee range only, no shields, no nuke ult, I could go on.)
Dueling also doesn't include battlespirit, which nerfs healing, which is the only way werewolf can survive as they have no shields and no cleanse.

Battlespirit is 100% active while dueling.

Arunei · April 16

Major_Mangle wrote: »

So far is looks like all of the extra high damage examples are very specific setups with a class mastery interaction. These do not indicate a problem with Werewolf overall. These are also examples of dueling and not open world, which will be significantly different.

With that logic nothing has ever overperformed because it´s just "a synergy between things". If something synergies too well with another thing, it becomes part of the problem. Every single patch where WW has been overtuned (Wolfhunter, Elsweyr, Murkmire and Greymoor/Markath), it´s been because WW had such insanely good synergy with certain tools that patch. It´s the synergy that make certain things overtuned, ESO PvP doesn´t work in a convenient vacuum like that. You know very well that anyone that wants to be competitive in ESO tends to lean towards whatever synergy/combination works the best.

Werewolf has had to deal with being F-tier for a long time. Mag Sorcerer meta, Warden acuity meta, and now Dragonknight corrosive/onslaught whip meta have all been significantly more difficult to play against as a Werewolf. Let's maybe get this thing working well before saying it's OP because of some interaction.

Sure WW hasn´t been good in a while, but people are arguing that doing 40-50% more sustained DPS in PvP (with or without relequen), compared to the highest damage outputs on live, while requiring way less output/effort, is balanced. And this is with WW missing out on 33% more weapon damage because of a bugged passive.

I´m no "anti WW" player, I used to play a lot of WW with some of the most competent WW theorycrafters in the game on PCEU, but as "interesting" as it would be to see it go live, it would just be another overtuned playstyle that gets neutered 1-2 updates later. Better to reduce the extremes to enable a healthier PvP environment than opening pandoras box.

Just because WW might have a good synergy with something doesn't mean THEY should be what's getting nerfed. Perhaps, just maybe, whatever is providing that synergy should be looked at instead because IT might be the overtuned thing. This is why we don't call for nerfs within days of something being tested, instead we provide numbers and different interactions so what actually needs tweaking can be tweaked.

Dueling also isn't all of PvP. It's 1 on 1. In Cyro, IC, or BG, will the sustain work as well? When you can be piled on by other people and your main heal makes you take more damage? And again, if we're talking about the screens taken from ONE DUEL that wasn't even an ACTUAL duel, there is no way people can make any claims of WW being OP from that.

What people need to be doing is actually dueling using a variety of builds and then posting their results, preferably with video if possible. Because people can say whatever suits their argument if there is little to no actual stuff for others to look at. But even doing that stuff won't give the full picture of WW in PvP because dueling is only one part of PvP.

coop500 · April 16

I was told battle spirit doesn't work in duels, not my place to decide if that's true but the rest of my comment remains. The slew of weaknesses that werewolf has is almost being deceptively ignored or dodged around in favor of this dueling dummy in a specific 1v1.

I agree with what's being said about this sorc class mastery. THAT feels like the problem, do something about that, not werewolf.

Alchimiste1 · April 16

I think it's pretty obvious that some people are very unfamiliar with cmx. Whether that because they are from console and its unavailable to them or for another reason. To put things into perspective.

5k dps on another player is already very good dps. Someone that's very competent but not necessarily dot specd on their class will do this.
6k dps is a full dot build parsing people and is likely to win the duel unless the other player has cleanses.
7k dps is absurd, it's not a matter of if you will win but when UNLESS they build fully into tanking or countering this heavy pressure.
(on live)

The fact that a 1 bar WW build with BROKEN weapon damage passives is getting 8K+ dps on players cannot go live.
WW should not be nerfed to the ground, but we should not be afraid to call out overperforming stuff before it even goes live.
I don't particularly care for pve, but if they have to separate the skills or if they have to apply a unique damage debuff in pvp that's fine.

Panderbander · April 16

Just looked at the recaps again. The numbers are disingenuous.

There are, in the last post with recap numbers, 61 instances of Rip and Tear being hitting. There are also 60 instances of Rip and Tear EXECUTE damage. This, according to the patch notes, only happens under 25% HP. This also means the target was getting hit by the sorc class mastery at a minimum rate of 75% chance per damage instance, every 200ms.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how the ability functions, the target was getting parsed on IN EXECUTE. Or is the data somehow faulty?