nightbringer1993 wrote: »

I am currently waiting to see the patch notes on PTS tomorrow but if once again Necro skills are not reworked then I guess ZOS just doesn’t care about the class. The class is currently a complete scam and we have been telling the devs to bring us to the same level as other classes but they never did and they just nerfed us again and again.

Once again I am waiting for the PTS tomorrow and if Necro are still being treated like trash I might have to work on a big message to ZOS because the Necro scam needs to end.

I agree, which is why I made the video over the weekend.

AvidNecro wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-BAgo_L_x1Q?si=DUHsoVYtHNsGCEiC

I thought that the Necromancer was so nerfed because he might be decent on console servers. But after watching your video, I now don't understand at all why the developers made him so unplayable. Here is my post about my Necromancer:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/690768/i-need-the-help-of-the-most-powerful-necromancers#latest

I may not play Necromancer much, but everything you said in your video exactly matches what I previously wrote about the feelings when playing as a Necromancer. This only confirms that we are right about the current state of the Necromancer class.

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Once again I am considering making a large thread tomorrow depending on the necromancer changes tonight. The class masteries are clearly not enough to make the Necro able to be playable pure class. So I am waiting to see if the skills will be changed. And I will act depending on it.

I very much doubt necro will get any mentions in the patchnotes outside from class masteries (which seem to be garbage for necro). And its stupid that it wasn't in the first reworks, because necro has no sustain, no dmg (even if you build into it) and a god awful class healing skill kit.

Wup_sa wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Once again I am considering making a large thread tomorrow depending on the necromancer changes tonight. The class masteries are clearly not enough to make the Necro able to be playable pure class. So I am waiting to see if the skills will be changed. And I will act depending on it.

and a god awful class healing skill kit.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and disagree hard with this. Living Death is one of the strongest healing lines out there. It gives tons of raw healing and crit healing, one of the most cost-efficient healing skills in the game (Renewing Undeath), the best self purge in the game (Hexproof), one of the strongest HoTs in the game (Intensive Mender is ridiculously strong and people don't realize it because it doesn't show up on scoreboards), and Resistant Flesh is so misunderstood and touted as a terrible burst heal when it's incredibly strong.

The only thing holding Living Death back at the moment is the fact that the subclassing meta makes it less desirable because the line itself doesn't provide an Armor Buff or any damage outside the Blastbones Ultimate.

That doesn't mean the other things you said aren't accurate; Necro suffers a lot from a holistic point of view because the entire class hinges around a buggy, unfun corpse system.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Once again I am considering making a large thread tomorrow depending on the necromancer changes tonight. The class masteries are clearly not enough to make the Necro able to be playable pure class. So I am waiting to see if the skills will be changed. And I will act depending on it.

and a god awful class healing skill kit.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and disagree hard with this. Living Death is one of the strongest healing lines out there. It gives tons of raw healing and crit healing, one of the most cost-efficient healing skills in the game (Renewing Undeath), the best self purge in the game (Hexproof), one of the strongest HoTs in the game (Intensive Mender is ridiculously strong and people don't realize it because it doesn't show up on scoreboards), and Resistant Flesh is so misunderstood and touted as a terrible burst heal when it's incredibly strong.

The only thing holding Living Death back at the moment is the fact that the subclassing meta makes it less desirable because the line itself doesn't provide an Armor Buff or any damage outside the Blastbones Ultimate.

That doesn't mean the other things you said aren't accurate; Necro suffers a lot from a holistic point of view because the entire class hinges around a buggy, unfun corpse system.

And the one promising step that they teased in the Masteries Reveal, appending corpses to players, got randomly stripped away at the last moment.

It is very odd. On one hand, the new devs have been making some very nice choices for other classes but they seem to have a gaping blind spot for Necromancer issues in particular. Such as corpses being a dead mechanic in PvP (and still extremely clunky in PvE).

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Once again I am considering making a large thread tomorrow depending on the necromancer changes tonight. The class masteries are clearly not enough to make the Necro able to be playable pure class. So I am waiting to see if the skills will be changed. And I will act depending on it.

and a god awful class healing skill kit.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and disagree hard with this. Living Death is one of the strongest healing lines out there. It gives tons of raw healing and crit healing, one of the most cost-efficient healing skills in the game (Renewing Undeath), the best self purge in the game (Hexproof), one of the strongest HoTs in the game (Intensive Mender is ridiculously strong and people don't realize it because it doesn't show up on scoreboards), and Resistant Flesh is so misunderstood and touted as a terrible burst heal when it's incredibly strong.

The only thing holding Living Death back at the moment is the fact that the subclassing meta makes it less desirable because the line itself doesn't provide an Armor Buff or any damage outside the Blastbones Ultimate.

That doesn't mean the other things you said aren't accurate; Necro suffers a lot from a holistic point of view because the entire class hinges around a buggy, unfun corpse system.

And the one promising step that they teased in the Masteries Reveal, appending corpses to players, got randomly stripped away at the last moment.

It is very odd. On one hand, the new devs have been making some very nice choices for other classes but they seem to have a gaping blind spot for Necromancer issues in particular. Such as corpses being a dead mechanic in PvP (and still extremely clunky in PvE).

Yah it bugs me to no end. They made such a huge stink last year about corpses being horrible for the server to the point where they changed the timer on corpses and tried (and failed) to implement a lower limit on corpses.

If corpses are such a big issue, just get rid of the system and replace it with something else.

Definitely.

I used to be a corpse mechanic defender but I agree that scrapping it and doing something else makes the most sense these days.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Wup_sa wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Once again I am considering making a large thread tomorrow depending on the necromancer changes tonight. The class masteries are clearly not enough to make the Necro able to be playable pure class. So I am waiting to see if the skills will be changed. And I will act depending on it.

and a god awful class healing skill kit.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and disagree hard with this. Living Death is one of the strongest healing lines out there. It gives tons of raw healing and crit healing, one of the most cost-efficient healing skills in the game (Renewing Undeath), the best self purge in the game (Hexproof), one of the strongest HoTs in the game (Intensive Mender is ridiculously strong and people don't realize it because it doesn't show up on scoreboards), and Resistant Flesh is so misunderstood and touted as a terrible burst heal when it's incredibly strong.

The only thing holding Living Death back at the moment is the fact that the subclassing meta makes it less desirable because the line itself doesn't provide an Armor Buff or any damage outside the Blastbones Ultimate.

That doesn't mean the other things you said aren't accurate; Necro suffers a lot from a holistic point of view because the entire class hinges around a buggy, unfun corpse system.

And the one promising step that they teased in the Masteries Reveal, appending corpses to players, got randomly stripped away at the last moment.

It is very odd. On one hand, the new devs have been making some very nice choices for other classes but they seem to have a gaping blind spot for Necromancer issues in particular. Such as corpses being a dead mechanic in PvP (and still extremely clunky in PvE).

Yah it bugs me to no end. They made such a huge stink last year about corpses being horrible for the server to the point where they changed the timer on corpses and tried (and failed) to implement a lower limit on corpses.

If corpses are such a big issue, just get rid of the system and replace it with something else.

Not to mention they bugged all our summons/class kit for over a year and left us on read/stopped communicating after they said they would keep us updated (see surprise surprise blastbones and animate blastbones ulti are unusable in pvp now)? Summons seem to work now in PvP, though I don't know at what point it ever was fixed. If anything, I feel like they just reverted the pet limit rules for Necromancer, but I haven't had the time to do extensive testing.

I just want to have fun with the Necromancer class again, but can't when every single other class gets major buffs from their class masteries, while we get to pick from a set of quality of life improvements that should already be in our kit, and even those are apparently being walked back after being advertised in previews, like being able to attach corpses to other players.

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

I am currently waiting to see the patch notes on PTS tomorrow but if once again Necro skills are not reworked then I guess ZOS just doesn’t care about the class. The class is currently a complete scam and we have been telling the devs to bring us to the same level as other classes but they never did and they just nerfed us again and again.

Once again I am waiting for the PTS tomorrow and if Necro are still being treated like trash I might have to work on a big message to ZOS because the Necro scam needs to end.

You’ve said that Necromancer is a scam multiple times, and that’s flat-out wrong. “Scam” implies you’re not getting something you paid for. If you pay for Necromancer, you get Necromancer. It being at the bottom of pile isn’t relevant to the purchase; hence why the phrase “caveat emptor (buyer beware)” exists.

Also, at this point, every class has players somewhere begging the devs to shuffle their schedule around so they can get their refresh next. I’ve worked for enough large companies to know that once a workflow schedule is set and communicated, changing it throws a lot of stuff off and can even cause delays.

While I want you to be able to enjoy Necromancer now, the fact remains that it is indeed the last class to be refreshed, so you’ve got to wait. And threats of unsubscribing and uninstalling aren’t going to move anything along. If the people who uninstalled after subclassing went live wasn’t enough to bring ESO to a grinding halt, you taking away your $15 a month isn’t going to be the proverbial nail in the coffin, either.

I say this because I don’t want you expending a bunch of energy on something that isn’t going to happen. If you sent that big message to ZOS, I promise you it’s in someone’s recycle bin right now, being merrily ignored while they work on the Warden refresh.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

You’ve said that Necromancer is a scam multiple times, and that’s flat-out wrong. “Scam” implies you’re not getting something you paid for. If you pay for Necromancer, you get Necromancer. It being at the bottom of pile isn’t relevant to the purchase; hence why the phrase “caveat emptor (buyer beware)” exists.

Also, at this point, every class has players somewhere begging the devs to shuffle their schedule around so they can get their refresh next. I’ve worked for enough large companies to know that once a workflow schedule is set and communicated, changing it throws a lot of stuff off and can even cause delays.

While I want you to be able to enjoy Necromancer now, the fact remains that it is indeed the last class to be refreshed, so you’ve got to wait. And threats of unsubscribing and uninstalling aren’t going to move anything along. If the people who uninstalled after subclassing went live wasn’t enough to bring ESO to a grinding halt, you taking away your $15 a month isn’t going to be the proverbial nail in the coffin, either.

I say this because I don’t want you expending a bunch of energy on something that isn’t going to happen. If you sent that big message to ZOS, I promise you it’s in someone’s recycle bin right now, being merrily ignored while they work on the Warden refresh.

I partly agree that by buying a Necromancer you get a Necromancer who is currently at the bottom of the list. And I am quite sure that the Necromancer will be last in line for updates. But I assume that TESO has already lost more than 15 dollars a month. I am sure that some players have stopped playing actively not only because of the subclass system but also, for example, due to the unplayability of their favourite class, the Necromancer. Over the past three months, in 4v4 BGs, I have encountered only one pure Necromancer and about 5-10 players with Necromancer subclasses (and perhaps they just joined the BG to complete their dailies). Meanwhile, I frequently encounter other pure classes relative to the current meta, except for the Templar (they have completely disappeared from BGs over the past three months).
Perhaps the master class passives will temporarily bring back some players who enjoy playing pure classes. But I highly doubt that this will solve the Necromancer problem. All classes will get these passives. And in a month, there will hardly be any pure Necromancers left. The main problem with the Necromancer is not only the complexity of this class (though I really like its mechanics), but the lack of any benefit from the difficulty of executing these mechanics.
Perhaps the developers could temporarily (until the class is reworked) slightly buff his abilities. This does not necessarily have to be an increase in damage. For example, they could slightly increase the duration of buffs (due to the necromancer's additional corpses mechanic, the window between re-buffs is too short for dealing damage). Or if the developers believe that the Necromancer has sufficient damage potential (and the main damage-dealing skill Sacrificial Bones can be nerfed), then perhaps secondary abilities could be improved (I mean the abilities that are ignored due to the presence of better skills in the weapon and guild skill lines). If I understood the developers' idea correctly, they tried to compensate for the corpses mechanic by providing additional bonuses in skills related to this mechanic (extra damage or HP, MP and Stamina regeneration), but unfortunately, because the remains mechanic is like a lottery, these skills are easier to replace with skills from other skill lines. It would be very good if these Necromancer skills were strengthened to a level competitive with other similar skills (considering the complexity of the mechanic).
Perhaps fixing the Corpseburster class set would help. This set can compensate for the Necromancer's lack and complexity of damage implementation. For example, combined with the Necrotic Potency skill, it now almost always explodes the corpse behind the Necromancer. It would be enough to fix it so that the corpse that the player is looking at explodes, rather than a random corpse lying somewhere behind the Necromancer (as is the case with the Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether skills).
I understand that this will not completely solve all the problems of this class, but at least it will allow the necromancer to be a bit more enjoyable in the game. Although the dependence on randomness will remain, it will be at least somewhat compensated. There are just too many variables for this class (where the enemy is, where the enemy will move, where the corpse will appear, whether it's possible to use a particular corpse, considering the distance from the used corpse, where to use area abilities, correctly timing between re-buffs). Even Molag Bal won't help here.