Testing required: Subclassing limited to 1 skill line

Firstmep · April 8

As the title said, I'd love to see a test where subclassing was limited to only 1 skill line at a time. Why?
1. One of the most common complaints I've seen about subclassing is the complete erosion of class identity, and ZOS clearly seems to take this feedback seriously aka reworks and class masteries.
Now imagine for a second, that you can only swap out a single skill line, while having to keep the 2 remaining ones.
Suddenly you are not a random amalgamation of skill lines, but a Templar that dabbled in Draconic power over the power of the sun.

2. Balance. Suddenly some of the stupidest combos become unavailable, and I think it would be infinitely easier to distinguish class balance over having to examine each skill line or even individual skills against one another. And I know Zos already doesn't do this, but it would at least put some restraints on overall power creep.
3. Weapon skill lines. In the era of subclassing people look to that system to plug in holes in their respective classes, over weapon skill lines or even scribing, altho the latter still presents a level of flexibility to remain somewhat relevant.

And that's it really. I have spoken to quite a few people who are not happy with subclassing, and frankly apart from wanting the system completely removed, this 1 skill limit seems to be the most common answer.
Again, I'd love to see this in a PTS cycle tested.

Kalthea · April 8

They are already implementing new changes to the classes to make pure classing more enticing, including exclusive passive for remaining pure. Give them time to finish what they're working on and then form your opinions afterwards.

Firstmep · April 8

Kalthea wrote: »

They are already implementing new changes to the classes to make pure classing more enticing, including exclusive passive for remaining pure. Give them time to finish what they're working on and then form your opinions afterwards.

The class reworks will take at least a year. What I proposed would take 2 minutes to enable on the PTS.

Jestir · April 8

Unfortunately I don't think that would "fix" anything when hyper focused lines like assassination, herald of the tome, soldier of apocrypha, green balance and others haven't been rebalanced/shifted around

YffresTrill · April 8

I sure hope not. I often see these discussions of subclassing that totally disregard the roleplay element of it, which is the primary appeal of it for many people who engage with it. They have given us the tools to create characters much closer to our vision of them. How would it feel for those of us who care about that to take this away now that we have it?

I will not weigh in on how to fix the issues subclassing has caused for the high-level players, as I have no eggs in this basket, but the roleplay community is something to at least keep in mind when advocating for changes that eliminate choice in character design. That said, I would be perfectly fine with subclassed builds being marginally weaker than pure class ones once this rebalancing is done -- but limited to one subclassed skill line? No, please.

SolarRune · April 8

Sub-classing is being actively "fixed" with the combination of class masteries and class refresh.

This is eating away at both ends, the class refresh is moving things around that make them less useful when subclassing, and the masteries feed into those that want that pureclass identity buffed - dont see the point in limiting to one line when the future is that both pureclass and subclass will be broadly similar in terms of DPS - my concern is that pureclass may become overpowered for support roles and move tanks and healers back into a trapped meta of people only wanting a couple of classes with a couple of sets - at least with the current setup you have many tank and healer setups that are viable

Erickson9610 · April 8

I'd prefer to keep the flexibility of Subclassing, while making Pureclassing more appealing via Class Mastery passives.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 8

Firstmep wrote: »

Kalthea wrote: »

They are already implementing new changes to the classes to make pure classing more enticing, including exclusive passive for remaining pure. Give them time to finish what they're working on and then form your opinions afterwards.

The class reworks will take at least a year. What I proposed would take 2 minutes to enable on the PTS.

The pure class passives are literally out next patch and will be on PTS next week. Those will discourage subclassing quite a bit.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 9

This would be we welcome change. They seriously need to take this into consideration.

Aces-High-82 · April 9

I'd pick Ardent still on every toon for the infinite sustain via SoF/HoF.

NxJoeyD · April 12

ESO runs two scenarios for gameplay, PvE & PvP.

For PvE, I see no problem with allowing players to subclass two skill lines. It opens up a lot of variety and flexibility with skill, mechanical, and gear set combinations which can be good to explore or in some cases even enhance lore.

PvP, though, this is where subclassing goes off the rails and has really been the key pain point with it.

IMO I’m ok with having two potential subclassed skill lines but I do believe that some class skills should offer a limited version for subclassing and leave the full potential only for the pure class.

If the whole point of class refreshes are to reaffirm class identity as well as elevate pure classes to be competitive with subclasses builds then there needs to be a line between what is and what is not able to be subclassed.

Keep in mind that “elevating a class” is not the same thing as “elevating skills within a class”. .. Those are two very different things. If we look at the recent DK refresh, based on what was done I’m not convinced the Devs are going to make pure classes competitive if all players can subclass every aspect of that classes new skills.

And for the upcoming Passives, those are a thing but I believe a statement from the Devs said something to the point of they’re supposed to help support the classes whilst the class refresh project is in progress; not that those passive will be a cure all or major fix for subclassing.

QB1 · April 13

no thanks, subclassing is awesome I wish they would open it up even more

Necrotech_Master · April 13

i have a few characters that already subclass only 1 skill line, your not forced to subclass 2 skill lines

and yes in most meta setups i know most subclass 2 lines, but nobody is required to do so