I have been slightly away from PvP ever since that DK patch came out for that reason. And next patch the pure class bonuses will only buff refreshed classes. And as a trying to remain Necro main I will consider that another nerfs on me. Am tired of seeing zos forcing people into other classes.
When they say “play the way you want” that is a lie.

"What happens every time something is buffed is happening"

And soon there will be some werewolf packs then it will be Warden then it will be sorc

Expect lots of people dominating with the shiniest new toy/class for the next 2 ish years. Nothing about it is any different then how things normally cycle through though, the only difference is they said to expect the new thing to be broken until all the classes are done

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

And next patch the pure class bonuses will only buff refreshed classes.

Every Class is getting Class Mastery bonuses to make them more powerful when not Subclassing, regardless of whether they've been refreshed yet.

Yes but when DK is already super strong giving it 2 extra 'pure class' buffs will not hurt it

DK pure class buffs are obviously way worse than most other class buffs. And i think they even officially said they will use these buffs to balance reworked classes with those that arent reworked yet.

DK's do not hunt in packs, I believe they are lone predators. In any case one should always be prepared in PVP, have enough armor/defenses/mitigation, have CC, be mindful of the surroundings and use the terrain... Usually when you are alone against a group, you are in trouble. This is why I love bomber builds because they are there to balance it up. Never ever in the history of ever was it a good plan to have your army or your attack consist of a single tight-knit group. Too bad they are allowed to roam the streets like that unchallenged. More bombers! More counter-groups. PVP is war.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

And next patch the pure class bonuses will only buff refreshed classes.

Every Class is getting Class Mastery bonuses to make them more powerful when not Subclassing, regardless of whether they've been refreshed yet.

Yes but when DK is already super strong giving it 2 extra 'pure class' buffs will not hurt it

DK pure class buffs are obviously way worse than most other class buffs. And i think they even officially said they will use these buffs to balance reworked classes with those that arent reworked yet.

Yes Major Berserk/Heroism/Protection every time a DK uses its ulti and even more increased dmg from landslide is obviously way way "worse" than other pure class buffs when DK is already very strong.

Landslide buff is good yeah but thats the only thing. Dk already has easy access to major berserk and major protection.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

And next patch the pure class bonuses will only buff refreshed classes.

Every Class is getting Class Mastery bonuses to make them more powerful when not Subclassing, regardless of whether they've been refreshed yet.

Yes but when DK is already super strong giving it 2 extra 'pure class' buffs will not hurt it

DK pure class buffs are obviously way worse than most other class buffs. And i think they even officially said they will use these buffs to balance reworked classes with those that arent reworked yet.

Yes Major Berserk/Heroism/Protection every time a DK uses its ulti and even more increased dmg from landslide is obviously way way "worse" than other pure class buffs when DK is already very strong.

Not to mention that the only reason people currently bring anything sorcerer related into PvE end-game content at all is exclusively for Atronarch's group wide major berserk buff that DK is now getting (as a group wide buff) on top of major heroism (that has been definitively proven in the past to be a problematic buff to be giving out so freely) from that class mastery passive...

"Way worse" my [snip]... that 1 mastery passive alone deletes 2-3 classes from ever being brought into PvE end-game again until their refreshes (possibly even post refresh if the refreshes fail), let alone all the different skill lines that could have seen niche use-cases, that will become completely useless just from that 1 passive existing...

The topic was about pvp and so was my comment. I have no idea about pve.

Dimorphos wrote: »

DK's do not hunt in packs, I believe they are lone predators. In any case one should always be prepared in PVP, have enough armor/defenses/mitigation, have CC, be mindful of the surroundings and use the terrain... Usually when you are alone against a group, you are in trouble. This is why I love bomber builds because they are there to balance it up. Never ever in the history of ever was it a good plan to have your army or your attack consist of a single tight-knit group. Too bad they are allowed to roam the streets like that unchallenged. More bombers! More counter-groups. PVP is war.

No they definitely hunt in packs. I was on my tank last night and I tanked a whole 6 man group of nothing but DK's (and 1 healer). My own group had 3 DK's. And almost every 1vX group out there had at least a couple of DK's, if not more.

Oh no!

DKs bombing!!!!!

That needs to stay specific to NB or Necro subclassing what is ZOS thinking!!!!!!!

Theignson wrote: »

The only other question is how this player got all crits (aside from luck). If they are running mech Acuity, it has a 4 second duration, but this countdown is 8 seconds. Maybe @React can explain that

That's because Acuity does not have a 4 second duration. It's a 4 sec duration per stack. You can proc it up with a dot on someone to get it rolling while you set up your delayed damage, then by the time your damage starts landing you've just started to peak at your 100% crit rate. Theoretically, Acuity can last for 20 seconds (though this is highly unlikely) in a scenario where you're proccing the next stack at the last possible second and you start at a value lower than 20% crit chance.

19%> 1 stack at 39% > 2 stacks at 59% > 3 stacks at 79% > 4 stacks at 99% > 5 stacks at 100%.

Also, none of this really matters for the example above anyways, because while the countdown for proxy is 8 seconds, damage takes your crit chance at the moment the instance of damage is dealt and not the moment the ability is cast. They could have had zero Acuity stacks when starting to cast all of this delayed damage, and ended up at 85 - 100% by the time the damage landed. This specific combo has a couple of globals in the middle to throw in some dots to proc Acuity, and the Anchorite's Cruelty script will proc a stack of Acuity every tick since Oblivion damage can never crit.

They also may not be using Acuity at all. It's not impossible to get 4 or 5 crits in a row at anything above a 60% crit chance. Rare sure, but not impossible.

Jestir wrote: »

"What happens every time something is buffed is happening"

And soon there will be some werewolf packs then it will be Warden then it will be sorc

Expect lots of people dominating with the shiniest new toy/class for the next 2 ish years. Nothing about it is any different then how things normally cycle through though, the only difference is they said to expect the new thing to be broken until all the classes are done

Yeah I'm ready for the werewolf apocalypse, hopefully it rivals the dk meta.

You can add one guaranteed spammable hit after the leap to that list, since both Petrify and Leap dont let you breakfree before the next GCD hit registers, which is currently a 15k Lash. So any player that can press buttons can just press couple buttons and jump on you from outside your screen hitting you with 5 - 6 spammable worth of abilities at once without you seeing player once.

React wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

One of the problems is every single spell is area effect, they are all hit 22msafely away from the fight, then a 22m leap:

T-8 seconds Proxi det
T-6 seconds Shalks
T-5 Incinerate
T-4 Soul of flame

T-1 Leap (22 m range)
All 5 hit at once

You don't have to target anything but the leap at the end. I mean the original Incap/SA/bow, at least you have to be within melee range and actually target the player. That took a certain amount of skill.
The skill here would be trying to get everything to hit at once (assuming that countdown is not automated for precision).

( I mean you can cast Proxi and hit the buttons when it is 6,5,4 but human reaction times mean you could not hit all of them precisely within .1 seconds. There is lag, then the brain sees the signal and responds by pushing the next button, the standard variance is probably 300 milliseconds)

The only other question is how this player got all crits (aside from luck). If they are running mech Acuity, it has a 4 second duration, but this countdown is 8 seconds. Maybe @React can explain that

Like Camera said, acuity is 4s per stack. So you'll typically get between 8-10 seconds of uptime off of each proc, since the duration refreshes as you build stacks. Even if you end up in excess of 100% crit chance before reaching 5 stacks, you can continue building stacks by dealing damage that can't crit (oblivion damage, damage on block).

It isn't actually that hard at all to get these things to land at the same time. Sure there will be variances of +/- <1s depending on their timing and server performance, but if you understand the timing of the abilities you simply press them in the correct order to get them to land at the same time. Many people including myself also track abilities like incinerate, heart of flame, deep fissure, etc to make this easier to execute.

High level group play in ESO is almost entirely based on this exact practice, and the best groups are the ones who's members are able to consistently execute these precise "order of operations" to stack as much burst into one GCD as possible, as it's often the only way they're able to kill other good players through the absurd hot/shield stacking that exists today.

@React "Many people including myself also track abilities like incinerate, heart of flame, deep fissure, etc to make this easier to execute. " how do you do this? Is it an addon? Or just watch the countdown timer on each ability?

Variances of 1 second-- yes easy. But to get all 6 abilities to hit at once with variances of .1 second-- not so easy. Human reaction time is.22 seconds on average. I am not sure what your profession is outside of gaming, but your name "React faster" "react slower" implies you know about human reaction times!

Theignson wrote: »

React wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

One of the problems is every single spell is area effect, they are all hit 22msafely away from the fight, then a 22m leap:

T-8 seconds Proxi det
T-6 seconds Shalks
T-5 Incinerate
T-4 Soul of flame

T-1 Leap (22 m range)
All 5 hit at once

You don't have to target anything but the leap at the end. I mean the original Incap/SA/bow, at least you have to be within melee range and actually target the player. That took a certain amount of skill.
The skill here would be trying to get everything to hit at once (assuming that countdown is not automated for precision).

( I mean you can cast Proxi and hit the buttons when it is 6,5,4 but human reaction times mean you could not hit all of them precisely within .1 seconds. There is lag, then the brain sees the signal and responds by pushing the next button, the standard variance is probably 300 milliseconds)

The only other question is how this player got all crits (aside from luck). If they are running mech Acuity, it has a 4 second duration, but this countdown is 8 seconds. Maybe @React can explain that

Like Camera said, acuity is 4s per stack. So you'll typically get between 8-10 seconds of uptime off of each proc, since the duration refreshes as you build stacks. Even if you end up in excess of 100% crit chance before reaching 5 stacks, you can continue building stacks by dealing damage that can't crit (oblivion damage, damage on block).

It isn't actually that hard at all to get these things to land at the same time. Sure there will be variances of +/- <1s depending on their timing and server performance, but if you understand the timing of the abilities you simply press them in the correct order to get them to land at the same time. Many people including myself also track abilities like incinerate, heart of flame, deep fissure, etc to make this easier to execute.

High level group play in ESO is almost entirely based on this exact practice, and the best groups are the ones who's members are able to consistently execute these precise "order of operations" to stack as much burst into one GCD as possible, as it's often the only way they're able to kill other good players through the absurd hot/shield stacking that exists today.

@React "Many people including myself also track abilities like incinerate, heart of flame, deep fissure, etc to make this easier to execute. " how do you do this? Is it an addon? Or just watch the countdown timer on each ability?

Variances of 1 second-- yes easy. But to get all 6 abilities to hit at once with variances of .1 second-- not so easy. Human reaction time is.22 seconds on average. I am not sure what your profession is outside of gaming, but your name "React faster" "react slower" implies you know about human reaction times!

Variances of ~.1 second are absolutely easy to replicate.

This game has a global cooldown. When you cast an ability, for 1 second, any additional ability cast will enter a queue (technically slightly less, probably the latter 0.6 seconds or so of the GCD). Any ability queued will then automatically cast as soon as it is able to. This is a base game feature.

For example, if you cast Incinerate and immediately start pressing Heart of Flame, Heart of Flame will queue up and immediately cast when it is able to. Because Incinerate has a timer of 5 seconds, and HoF has a timer of 4 seconds, if you queue Heart of Flame, the game will do the work for you and cast it precisely when it needs to be cast in order for the damage to land at exactly the same time.

Another example is Proxy Det into Shalks; they land at exactly the same time if queued in this manner. Thus, if you have all four of these abilities, I believe the order is Proxy -> Shalks -> any 2 abilities (maybe 3? I haven't run this exact combo) -> Incinerate -> Heart of Flame. Since incinerate lasts for 15 seconds, you could also technically cast it first and add another global in between your Shalks and HoF. As long as you're queueing each ability, the abilities will be cast precisely when the GCD ends.

There's no dubious macros or anything occurring - just base game ability queueing. Queue up the abilities in the right order and they will all land at precisely the same time. Abilities queue if cast during the latter half of the global cooldown. The GCD is 1 second long - more than enough for human reaction time.

You can try this yourself. Press Incinerate, then spam Heart of Flame until it casts. The game will queue HoF and the damage from the two abilities will land simultaneously.

The problem I see with DK atm, is that the class is now way more put together than the rest of the classes, and that makes it insanely OP. Nearly every skill synergises perfectly with each other, and its now incredibly easy to use. Compare that to say MagCro, and the difference is blinding.

Jestir wrote: »

"What happens every time something is buffed is happening"

And soon there will be some werewolf packs then it will be Warden then it will be sorc

Expect lots of people dominating with the shiniest new toy/class for the next 2 ish years. Nothing about it is any different then how things normally cycle through though, the only difference is they said to expect the new thing to be broken until all the classes are done

People are so immensely impatient with this. Especially when I'd rather have this DK domination than the unintended confusion that was their previous combat philosophy, or warden charm subclass and gankers keeping PVP stale.

At least in this case we know exactly what we are getting and when, and there is no confusion about the combat changes. Beforehand, you never knew what was about to get buffed or nerfed tbh.

Having packs of DK vs packs of WW in June will be a real fun