Time Spent Playing Has Increased Dramatically

TheGamerSeal · April 4

Disclaimer: Before I begin this discussion, I would ask readers interested in commenting to AVOID saying things that don't contribute meaningfully to the conversation; I am very well aware that "this is just a game" and that "if I don't like it, I should just go find another game" - I've heard those more times than I can count. I am creating this discussion because I care about the state of this game and want to play my part in submitting feedback to facilitate positive growth. This does not mean you are not allowed to disagree; just please avoid disagreements that don't contribute to the discussion.

Time Spent Playing Has Increased Dramatically
It has been said enough times by the PR teams over the past few months that ZeniMax wants to respect our time spent playing the game; personally, I interpret this as changing or eliminating problems that could unnecessarily extend the time it takes for a player to play the game, allowing for a smoother gaming experience.

Before Update 49 was released, my time spent in ESO involved a round of daily crafting writs, digging up antiquities about to expire, and completing the three manageable endeavors each day with occasional progress put into the weekly endeavor; this process took anywhere from 15-30 minutes of my time, with events usually extending this time anywhere from five minutes to three hours depending on the event and the requirements to complete the event's objectives.

With the release of Update 49 and the removal of the endeavor system, my time reasonably went down to around 5-10 minutes - no need to chase down five iron atronachs in the middle of nowhere. While it was disappointing to lose the means to purchase items directly from crown crates, the time spent playing did go down, and therefore, my interpretation of ZeniMax's promise did technically come true; time spent hunting down obscure objectives meant more time I could spend chatting with guildmates or trying out new things.

Now, I want to be transparent here: while my overall opinion of Tamriel Tomes is "don't add battle passes to ESO", my feedback here is intended to facilitate positive change as opposed to destructively complaining about their inclusion. That being said, my time spent per day in ESO has increased exponentially, with sessions lasting anywhere from five to seven HOURS. I did a bit of math, and considering that you need to earn 20,000 tome points to unlock access to the full tome, divided by the initial 97-day time limit, that is a minimum of 207 tome points per day. With challenges offering various point values and being different for every player, you can apply 207 to your own tasks and see what you would need to do per day to unlock full access; I should point out that while that may come off as "I only need to capture two districts in the Imperial City" for some people, it can mean chopping 60 wood nodes per day for others depending on the random challenges you get per week - I myself am stuck with the lumberjack job, for instance.

I know I've written an essay here, and if you've read this far, I sincerely thank you for your patience. My hope is that, at the very least, some of the weekly tasks will be reduced in severity to accommodate players with casual playstyles, like myself; at the most, well... refer to my overall opinion - but I'll be happy with any positive change at this point. If respecting players' time spent in-game is truly a goal for ZeniMax, then I would ask the decision makers to kindly consider this request and take action as soon as possible. Thank you again for your time and patience.

lookstwice · April 4

I just don't want to lose 20,000 tome points because I opened all mine as there was an option in the UI to open them all with no warning that I would lose them at the end of the season. Would have been nice to know that or some warning. That's after buying what I want already.

I never imagined a scenario something I paid for via 12 month sub would disappear at the end of the season. I could see that for stuff I slowly accumulated during the season via gameplay. Not via my purchase.

I haven't even had a chance to play the game normally yet due to work but who knows how many more points I will accrue that will utterly be meaningless.

So hard to want to play more at this point.

AScarlato · April 4

I think if this is the case, do you really need and want absolutely everything? I reviewed the items and I'm really only interested in a fraction of what is in there.

5 to 7 hour playtimes is NOT casual, or even possible for many of us on weekdays. So I guess the incentive is to buy the pass and buy everything whenever you want outside the season. Or...just pick and choose what you really want.

I used to go after every cosmetic they put in events and it dawned on me...why? I haven't used 90% of it even once.

I did find it interesting that OP seems to indicate needing to play too much, and with the same system the 2nd poster doesn't want to play at all. It's such a bizarre system impacting people in very different ways.

shadyjane62 · April 4

I'm playing more because of anniversary, not this update.

bmnoble · April 4

Way I see it is they just need to scrap the earn 20000 tome points requirement to unlock all the pages, they already have the divide between the free and premium items and the cost of the items themselves let people spend the points they earn on what they actually want without having to unlock the specific pages to be able to select those items.

LunaFlora · April 4

Tamriel Tomes have Weekly Challenges and they stay the entire Season.
you do not need to play every day or every week to do them.

Lyssia_Blackthorn · April 4

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

Disclaimer: If respecting players' time spent in-game is truly a goal for ZeniMax, then I would ask the decision makers to kindly consider this request and take action as soon as possible. Thank you again for your time and patience.

If respecting players' time spent in-game was truly a goal for ZeniMax, the tome points wouldn't expire. I suspect most people's lives are lived in seasons as well; there might be times when entire days can be spent doing weeklies, and then they're lucky if they can log in for ten minutes to get the daily crafting writs done. I know that's certainly how my life is. As mentioned in another thread, building up points to save for the future doing activities we enjoy is fun for at least some of us. I know I often used to do that with seals, because I enjoy, for instance, simple exploration while looking for crafting materials when I don't have time to do anything more substantial in the game.

As it is, I'm with @lookstwice. I feel no motivation to go back to this game at all, even with the festival I usually enjoy. I already overpaid to have what I want from the current tome, so there's no point in accumulating more points for no reason. There's little incentive to go back next season, because it's incredibly unlikely I'll have the time to gain enough points to even unlock the rest of the tome, and I don't want the points I do accumulate auto spending on inventory clutter I don't want when THAT season ends.

The point of video games is, still, to build something people want to pay for and play, right? 'Cause this is starting to feel like "The Producers" in the modern, video game era...

TheGamerSeal · April 4

LunaFlora wrote: »

Tamriel Tomes have Weekly Challenges and they stay the entire Season.
you do not need to play every day or every week to do them.

To my understanding, there is a limit to how many challenges can appear on the UI at any one time. Simply not doing challenges until you feel like doing them just means the challenge menu fills to maximum capacity and waits for completions or re-rolls.

TheGamerSeal · April 4

Thanks, everyone so far, for keeping my "useless post" request in mind.

I'm glad to know that everyone I've spoken to about Tamriel Tomes has at least one problem with it, as that significantly increases the likelihood of ZeniMax at the absolute least looking into it.

AzuraFan · April 4

My time in-game has also increased, but I figure that'll settle down once tomes aren't so new. Also, I'm so used to endeavors that I think I have to finish everything by the end of the week, even though I know I don't. That'll settle too.

randconfig · April 4

lookstwice wrote: »

I just don't want to lose 20,000 tome points because I opened all mine as there was an option in the UI to open them all with no warning that I would lose them at the end of the season. Would have been nice to know that or some warning. That's after buying what I want already.

I never imagined a scenario something I paid for via 12 month sub would disappear at the end of the season. I could see that for stuff I slowly accumulated during the season via gameplay. Not via my purchase.

I haven't even had a chance to play the game normally yet due to work but who knows how many more points I will accrue that will utterly be meaningless.

So hard to want to play more at this point.

While I'm certain the devs did not intend to add a dark pattern to the game, that's literally what that is and I hope they change it soon.

TheGamerSeal · April 4

AzuraFan wrote: »

My time in-game has also increased, but I figure that'll settle down once tomes aren't so new. Also, I'm so used to endeavors that I think I have to finish everything by the end of the week, even though I know I don't. That'll settle too.

While I agree, it'd be better for the developers to try and fix the things we say are broken instead of us getting used to things as they are; otherwise, we're trading old hindrances (vampire/werewolf bite inconvenience, costly respecs, and outdated systems) for new hindrances.

Elvenheart · April 4

AzuraFan wrote: »

My time in-game has also increased, but I figure that'll settle down once tomes aren't so new. Also, I'm so used to endeavors that I think I have to finish everything by the end of the week, even though I know I don't. That'll settle too.

I’m feeling that way about the challenges/endeavors as well, and now I’m done with everything and just waiting till the new ones start next week. I’m going to try to take it slower then.

LootAllTheStuff · April 5

It's a new system we're all trying to get used to AND there's the anniversary event running, so there's a lot more going on. I think once I have a better sense of how many weeklies I will need to complete to get through all 10 tome pages before the season completes, I'll be better able to pace those activities. To the extent that I can roll ones that overlap with the Anniversary, however, I'll be doing as much as I can while it lasts.

I'd also point out that the first "week" of tome points actually only lasts 4 days, so there's some drive to get things done quickly. We'll see if it changes much when the first full week kicks off.

ETA Memo to self: do NOT leave the 'i' out of 'doing' when posting!

SilverBride · April 5

I am playing more but not because I am pursuing Tomes challenges, because I'm not. I enjoyed Endeavors and Golden Pursuits and always worked to complete them because they felt like they were in addition to new content rather than in place of it.

I have one character that hasn't done any base game zones yet, so I have started her on a long journey of questing through every one of the base game zones and it is refreshing. The whole atmosphere is simpler and full of stories and I feel like I am back home again. That is the ESO that I fell in love with.

I much prefer this over doing tasks for cosmetics.

allochthons · April 5

Just for data's sake, it appears that weekly challenges point totals range from around 1950 - 2200 Tome Points, unless one gets really good re-rolls, and gets up into the 2400 range.

I was able to get most of my challenges done with normal to fairly normal activities: doing surveys, making a thieving run, sitting in the Kvatch arena for 30 min while 30 people slammed the gladiators...

Even though my weekly total was pretty low (1990, I think), I'm glad I didn't get any of the Trial or Capture Forts in Cyrodiil challenges. I'd probably re-roll those anyway.

Assuming we want to complete all our weeklies, and want to unlock all the pages, it does seem that if we end up on the low end of possible Tome Points every week, we'll still easily be able to unlock all of the pages, including the bonus pages where the crown crates are. So I probably will re-roll any of the higher value ones like Sanctum Ophidia (where I just finished my sticker book, I'm fine never doing it again! LOL) to keep my time spent lower (SO doesn't take long. Arranging to do SO takes a long time.)

There's a list of known challenges here.

Syldras · April 5

I approach the new system like the old daily and weekly endeavours: I see what I get done until the time runs up. If there's a task I dislike, I can even reroll now, which is a plus. I needed 3 rerolls until I had 5 tasks I liked doing (which means I have 3 extra rerolls next week), and completed those in perhaps 3-4 hours, divided between 2 days. I might stretch that out even more if there's a full week of time, but this first "week" was shorter and I had a bit time this weekend anyway. 4 hours stretched over a week isn't really more than the endeavours took.

As for points, I think the ones I got were on the lower end. I made a rough calculation and found out that with that amount of weekly points, I'll still be able to unlock all pages in about 8 to 9 weeks. The season runs for 14, so even if I'd score even lower in some week, it seems to be more than enough time. And if a few hundreds of points were missing at the end, for some reason, I could just open one tome pouch (or whatever they're called). Nothing to worry about.

EvilMongoose47 · April 13

For OP
I want to start by getting my nitpicky nature under control, 60 logs a day? Most I've seen is 15 at a time, 6 times, 12-13 a day, very doable. My play time is mostly spent doing writs and event stuff, other than that I mostly wander, do quests on various toons and chitchat with people. With tome challenges I've re-rolled anything to do with trials and PvP and done them with days to spare, the only extra time investment for me was finally trying Maelstrom, Vateshran, and Dragonstar. My question is, what changed so drastically for you that your playtime went from 5-10 minutes to hours?

Also, to those who opened your tome caches like lookstwice, they are converting tome points back to caches for people who opened them all, contact customer service. And in the future, READ THE NEWS AND PATCH NOTES.

Sturmfaenger · April 13

I have used the re-roll option to get rid of pvp or raid stuff in favor of tasks that fit together, or double tasks.
By combining them I save time and can do for example 6 Dolmens, have 20 daedra slain and 8 stronger foes, while getting(dolmen) chests - most of that is done by doing 6 dolmens.
The other tasks... its an exercise in telling myself "I don't need to do those". Don't do those on purpose (tell yourself it's an experiment) and: you will survive to let them be. Just try it. And your mind will learn: its okay to pick some and let the others alone. Don't put pressure on yourself.

Thalmar · April 13

My time to play increased also between Tuesday and Friday but drastically decreased on weekends, because by the weekend I already finished all weekly for new seasonal challanges. And for the current season there is nothing to do. I simply do my writs and log out on weekends...

I do NOT want to do some exploring, Antiquities or anything else as maybe next week"s challange will include any of these activities such as find 3 purple antiques, etc. I do not want to finish everything I found before a challange comes out.

I have no clue whose idea was it to start weeklies on tuesday instead on weekends. Servers can keep the info when they are restarted and release the quests on weekends, so no problem on client and server communication. It is simply so annoying finishing weeklies till weekend and have nothing in hand for the contrubution for the season...

TheGamerSeal · April 13

EvilMongoose47 wrote: »

For OP
I want to start by getting my nitpicky nature under control, 60 logs a day? Most I've seen is 15 at a time, 6 times, 12-13 a day, very doable. My play time is mostly spent doing writs and event stuff, other than that I mostly wander, do quests on various toons and chitchat with people. With tome challenges I've re-rolled anything to do with trials and PvP and done them with days to spare, the only extra time investment for me was finally trying Maelstrom, Vateshran, and Dragonstar. My question is, what changed so drastically for you that your playtime went from 5-10 minutes to hours?

Also, to those who opened your tome caches like lookstwice, they are converting tome points back to caches for people who opened them all, contact customer service. And in the future, READ THE NEWS AND PATCH NOTES.

Concerning chopping 60 wood nodes per day, I will admit to exaggerating; to correct myself, one of the "harvest 15 nodes" challenges awards 60 tome points, I believe, so to meet the minimum tome point requirement of 207 per day, one would only need to chop 40 wood nodes (which would grant 33 more tome points you need, and could then carry over to your next day's efforts). Even so, chopping 40 wood nodes is still a daunting task; a player will have to spend either 7 wood survey reports, 30+ minutes in one of the five starter zones, or around 1-2 hours in other zones just getting everything needed to meet that quota. At that rate, it would be far better to pursue literally any other type of challenge; this lines up with what developers have said in streams before, that if they see the playerbase leaning into a certain type of gameplay more than others, it's a sign that there needs to at least be some sort of investigation as to why.

My 5-10 minute estimate was taken from how much time it took to complete my usual set of tasks with a single character, which is all I use, without the old endeavor system in place - I'm not one of these "create 21 characters" people, and only ever create temporary characters to test one thing or another. The rate at which I normally play the game and progress through various tasks has resulted in much larger play windows in order to reach the bare minimum per day.

BXR_Lonestar · April 13

Playing less these days. I may get online to do some dailies and if there isn't a group activity going on, then I'm gone to another game. Either Oblivion or Resident Evil (have never gone back to enjoy the remakes). And I'll be blunt in stating why:
This game continues to try to add new things to the game or fix things WITHOUT actually addressing the problem.

Case in point is subclassing. Love it or hate it, we ALL know that it is completely and totally broken. And yet, the devs are trying to rebalance the game WITHOUT addressing subclassing. But when you are rebalancing the entire game against something that is completely broken, how can you expect the product to NOT be even more broken than it was before?

Maybe this will FEEL better in two years when all the class reworks are actually out, but until then, this just feels like they want to keep giving us broken toys to keep us playing. Honestly, this feels like the Destiny 1 approach to balancing the game - the devs conceded that they couldn't have 1-1 balancing where everything was equally strong, so they gave us a rotating meta where things would be buffed and nerfed in cycles to allow each weapon/class to have their day. Only with ESO, each and every rework is going to need to be stronger than what we had before to reset the meta. I really don't feel like having to rework my builds every time they release a patch, and I really don't want to play a game that is in a partially rebalanced state.

And until I hear devs acknowledge that subclassing (and to a lesser degree, scribing and hybridization) are issues, I remain pessimistic about the game's future. So I'm investing less in this game, and more into others - primarily single player games.

LalMirchi · April 13

At the moment I'm playing at the bare minimum (for me who has been known to run jaunts of many ESO hours a day).

Sorry to say but I'm confused about the changes and the lack of clear and concise information. As my most beloved trait is adapting to changes I'm going into what I call "Wait and see" mode.

I'm not interested in reading reams of information so I will slowly experience and adapt as I go along. I really appreciate the new drive and especially the improved communication and have continued optimism.

It's just that there's a lot of changes happening so I will take it slow and observe.

sshogrin · April 13

I will agree that I used to easily be able to do the daily endeavors on all my accounts both NA and EU, but the tomes weeklies take an insane amount of time to complete.
When you divide the daily/weekly endeavor times, the tomes times are an insane amount of time in comparison. The challenges aren't an "easy" get them while playing the game thing, you have to focus on what they are, and a single weekly challenge can take more time than what the weekly endeavors used to be.
For ZOS to think that this reduces our time in game or changes the "FOMO" is a joke. This increases our times playing way more than what they were before.

twisttop138 · April 13

AzuraFan wrote: »

My time in-game has also increased, but I figure that'll settle down once tomes aren't so new. Also, I'm so used to endeavors that I think I have to finish everything by the end of the week, even though I know I don't. That'll settle too.

This is absolutely correct. Tomes will settle into the background here soon and be just another thing I can do or not. It's new, and I do understand that many players are new to a battle pass. I've had some fun doing challenges in places I haven't been in forever, and it's been fun seeing tons of people in Wrothgar or gold coast or even green shade. But there are challenges I will just let sit or not do. Maybe I'll reroll them. Maybe I won't. I understand that there is this sense of I need to get it all done now, like there's a ticking clock. There is not.

Companies don't institute a battle pass for no reason. They do it because it works. Players feel the need to spend more time in game, engagement numbers go up and they make money doing it. The trade off is rewards, but you gotta try to take it easy. Doing whatever tasks I want over the next couple months will get me more than enough points to get all the premium rewards. No need to rush or get burnt out. But this is because I have and still do, do this in other games. It will normalize.

That said, it's very important that we give feedback to Zos on what we like and don't like. It's important to keep in mind what a battle pass is and what it's for, but in that there is room to make it really good for players. Imo I think they could make tasks more broad. Public dungeon bosses instead of that one guy in Cold harbor. Do a random dungeon instead of elden hollow 2. I think this would help, though I don't really have an issue with it as it stands now. I kinda wish there were dailies and weeklies tbh. I also think the rewards need to level up. This season came across as crown store reject items, which is fine but will need to vastly improve to get people buying every season. So keep giving feedback. It seems they're hearing and trying to dial it in.

Orionza · April 13

I liked Daily Endeavors and Golden Pursuits better. I could usually get them done quickly, as they were fun and satisfying to complete. You knew when you were totally done. Then I could go do quests, crafting, decorating or playing with friends. There were always good rewards that were rewarding to obtain.

Now, I just came back to the game two days ago after being away for a few weeks due to health time off. Two days and I'm already fed up. There's way too much farming. The choices in the tome rewards are chosen by ESO, and I pick from those. There's actually nothing I want. What the heck am I working for?

I don't have FOMO anymore. I can leave all that stuff. I just want to enjoy my game. If I chase these weeklies and dailies, it feels so unsatisfying and I waste a lot of time, and haven't been able to have time for questing or anything fun. Killing 1k beasts in the Gold Coast is not freaking fun. You can't even take a daily delve for the area and have the creatures in the delves count - that would be more helpful. I like to stack quests and then have them count for something else too. Very fun, but that doesn't work here either.

I never post on this forum. I'm always pretty satisfied with what has been released. I always loved dailies and pursuits. I have to say, I very much dislike how the Tomes system is and how we have to go about obtaining something we might want. If we want something in the higher page levels, all we will be doing is grinding. It's very unfun, and an overwhelming amount of tomes is needed to get to the last pages. I can't see myself doing that.

I'm really sorry to say this. I love this game but overwhelming stuff like this will make me leave. I left before due to grinding. I haven't paid for a couple of months now because I'm displeased. I know I can just go play some other games or do life stuff. But I do like it here and have friends here. I just feel like the grinding, farming and lengthy time requirements needed to achieve a few virtual items is geared to keep us all online as long as possible. We can see it clear as day. I promise you, it backfires and makes people leave. Please don't do that to us. Please make it fun so that we want to stay.

Danz_Macabre · April 13

I was bored before.
I would log in, grab the daily and see if the daily endeavour was easy.
Then I would log out.
The new chapters would keep me interested for about a week.
I have been working on the weekly objectives while doing other stuff. My hubby has started playing again and we are doing things together.

I love the changes.
I can go back and quest through the zones, I can work on seasonal or weekly objectives, and I am really looking forward to the other stuff they are adding.

I know my response didn't agree with you, but not everyone hates the changes.

TheGamerSeal · April 13

Danz_Macabre wrote: »

I was bored before.
I would log in, grab the daily and see if the daily endeavour was easy.
Then I would log out.
The new chapters would keep me interested for about a week.
I have been working on the weekly objectives while doing other stuff. My hubby has started playing again and we are doing things together.

I love the changes.
I can go back and quest through the zones, I can work on seasonal or weekly objectives, and I am really looking forward to the other stuff they are adding.

I know my response didn't agree with you, but not everyone hates the changes.

You're definitely allowed to disagree, not that there was any doubt. The disclaimer I included at the beginning was a request to avoid hard stops like telling people to deal with it or leave.

lillybit · April 13

My play time has increased too but more through choice that feeling obliged to race through everything. I've kept up with all the challenges on 2 accounts but I've stuck with faily easy ones, avoiding dungeons and arenas and stuff.

We've got 3 months to unlock everything so don't feel like every point counts - my time is worth more than a few extra points and I've got a few cache if I need them at the end.

I'm actually enjoying the challenges tho. Running around with a handful of surveys or camping a world boss for 20 minutes seems like a fair trade for not having to finish everything every day.

I'm definitely treating this season as a test run tho, to see how I'll manage tomes in the future, but overall it hasn't felt like I'm spending longer on this sort of thing than I used to.

But I'm mostly playing more because I'm actually enjoying the game more. I'm feeling more motivated by the changes. Maybe that's just because Jubilee is a good time to be playing but I'm looking forward to what's to come!

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO · April 13

I cuncur. ESO has become a massive grindfest. Instead of content (be it paid or free) we get grind on top of more grind. And yes, i know what a battle pass is. But at least in other games that shall remain unnamed, battle passes DO offer some meaningful rewards.

HatchetHaro · April 14

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

That being said, my time spent per day in ESO has increased exponentially, with sessions lasting anywhere from five to seven HOURS.

That's a bit excessive; most of these don't take long to do, and if you don't particularly like it, you can reroll them. Besides, you can save up to 12 weekly challenges, so as long as you get at least 5 done a week, you won't miss out on any.

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

I did a bit of math, and considering that you need to earn 20,000 tome points to unlock access to the full tome, divided by the initial 97-day time limit, that is a minimum of 207 tome points per day. With challenges offering various point values and being different for every player, you can apply 207 to your own tasks and see what you would need to do per day to unlock full access

You don't need all the rewards from a tome. Focus on the exclusive collectibles first; renewable resources like Gold and Transmutation Crystals and progression helpers like Experience and Research Scrolls aren't that important.

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

I should point out that while that may come off as "I only need to capture two districts in the Imperial City" for some people, it can mean chopping 60 wood nodes per day for others depending on the random challenges you get per week - I myself am stuck with the lumberjack job, for instance.

There is an addon called Reset Markers that will significantly help with those types of challenges. All you need is a stack of the same surveys (you should have plenty from writs), and that addon will show you the best place to run to to reset those collection node. You'll be done in a jiffy.

If, for some reason, you're out of surveys and treasure maps, you can use HarvestMap for finding resource nodes and in-world treasure chests. Or you can just buy them.