Werewolves having the ability to detect or sniff out hidden players in stealth!

Lycanthrope1997 · March 19

I been playing werewolf for years since the game started. I noticed one of the biggest annoyances is that werewolf has no way to detect hidden players in stealth without using a detect pot. I remember the dev on the livestream on March 10th wants werewolf to feel more like a predator or hunter type vipe. Now to me werewolves having heightened senses makes sense from a lore perspective and just werewolves in general. I understand that lycanthropes probably won't have sneak however we should at least have an ability to detect stealth or cloaked players similar to the fighter's guild skill or mage light etc. I think if they implemented a detect ability on one of the werewolf skills or just passively having it at all times could work. I know many other werewolf players have asked for this. It would definitely make werewolf more immersive and better quality of life change.

Panderbander · March 19

I'm with you on this one. Heightened senses play into the roleplay of being a werewolf hard, and to have no passive bonus beyond maybe the Wood Elf passive just doesn't feel right. What kind of "hunter of Hircine" can't find hidden prey?

Emeratis · March 19

There are already 10,000 counterplays to stealth to the point that the average player doesn't use it and it's largely used for cheesy bomb builds these days. I would prefer if the skill that is already kinda hurting was not continually devalued. While it's not nightblade entire identity, a lot of nb mains, myself included, are tired of everything and their mother ruining stealth in pvp. I'd also rather see the werewolf rework give them general bonuses and perks and not a niche counterplay that isn't needed. This is healthier for both nightblade and werewolf longterm.

Orbital78 · March 19

This would be great for pvp and really makes sense. It could be tagged on to existing abilities to give stealth detection like the potions. It would make werewolves a bit more appealing to have around too.

Major_Mangle · March 19

If you tie it to some kind of mechanic like:
"When a target has a bleed applied by the ww and drop below X% HP they're revealed if they're within Y distance of the werewolf"

Doesn't have to be exactly that, but thematically it would make more sense to have some kind of interaction like this.

Erickson9610 · March 19

I could see Stealth Detection radius being added to the "Pursuit" passive, as that matches the theme of chasing your prey. It could also be tied to Roar since that's a utility ability. I'd also accept a Werewolf Scribing Grimoire skill that could reveal enemies, whether by script selection or as the base functionality.

I want the ability to sneak as well as the ability to detect stealthed enemies. While we know Werewolf sneaking is out of scope for Update 50, we may get something that allows us to detect enemies — after all, we don't have access to the tools everyone else has for dealing with stealth, and we're supposed to have augmented senses.

Alphawolf01A · March 19

Werewolves kind of already do, but it's not very useful.

I was in a the bank in Deshaan and someone wanted to duel me. I accepted and he immediately stealthed and tried to gank me. He didn't do much damage. I went werewolf and he stealthed again, but my 2 combat pet wolves from the pack leader morph, ran over to him and stared at him because they couldn't attack him in stealth. Every time he moved, they followed him. He waited in a corner for my transformation to time out, then he tried to gank again, still next to no damage. My toon was very tanky. This repeated three times. Eventually, I got bored and just walked out of the duel area.

So you can "see" stealthed players, sort of. But I don't think there is any way for a werewolf to knock someone out of stealth.

o_Primate_o · March 19

Major_Mangle wrote: »

If you tie it to some kind of mechanic like:
"When a target has a bleed applied by the ww and drop below X% HP they're revealed if they're within Y distance of the werewolf"

Doesn't have to be exactly that, but thematically it would make more sense to have some kind of interaction like this.

maybe - if enemy combatant suffers from a bleed status effect/dot, player, while in werewolf form, can sense combatant when in stealth or behind objects
- or -
player can see their blood trail left behind (after 1s delay giving it a "hunter" gameplay)

NeoXanthus · March 19

I never thought of a werewolf for detection, but it makes tons of sense.

Lycanthrope1997 · March 20

Honestly werewolves detecting hidden players add to that hunter mentality. Imagine trying to hide from a supernatural wolf man creature? It can literally sniff you, hear your heart beat, smell your breath or any body odor/scent you let off. Even smelling sweat. Imagine going into an area to hunt and the first thing you do is try to track anything near by. It just feels immersive for a werebeast. Especially tracking the blood trail of your victim

Rohamad_Ali · March 20

This feels like a nerf NB thread in disguise. This one's cloak cancels heartbeat sounds and all odors. You should get a bonus vs crouched stealth characters but not NB clocked.

Lycanthrope1997 · March 20

Just players crouching in general not necessarily a nightblade nerf

Erickson9610 · March 20

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This feels like a nerf NB thread in disguise. This one's cloak cancels heartbeat sounds and all odors. You should get a bonus vs crouched stealth characters but not NB clocked.

I am okay with that. Invisibility is magical in nature, so anything that causes it (Nightblade, Vampire, potions, etc) wouldn't normally be detected by senses alone; you would need some sort of magical effect (Expert Hunter, Magelight, Revealing Flare, potions, etc) to counter it.

It goes without saying that this thread comes from a place of wanting Werewolf to live up to the roleplay fantasy that's expected of it, rather than a place that wants to kill the stealth playstyle. Again, I want Werewolf to be able to engage in the stealth playstyle — you would totally expect werewolves to prowl around stealthily, sniffing out prey. Maybe they should get additional stealth detection radius when they're crouched themselves?

Lycanthrope1997 · March 20

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This feels like a nerf NB thread in disguise. This one's cloak cancels heartbeat sounds and all odors. You should get a bonus vs crouched stealth characters but not NB clocked.

I am okay with that. Invisibility is magical in nature, so anything that causes it (Nightblade, Vampire, potions, etc) wouldn't normally be detected by senses alone; you would need some sort of magical effect (Expert Hunter, Magelight, Revealing Flare, potions, etc) to counter it.

It goes without saying that this thread comes from a place of wanting Werewolf to live up to the roleplay fantasy that's expected of it, rather than a place that wants to kill the stealth playstyle. Again, I want Werewolf to be able to engage in the stealth playstyle — you would totally expect werewolves to prowl around stealthily, sniffing out prey. Maybe they should get additional stealth detection radius when they're crouched themselves?

I feel a way to detect players for a werewolf should have been there. It's something that needs to be added. We literally have heighten senses. Also werewolves are magical so it could counter other magic like cloak

YandereGirlfriend · March 20

I think that this makes sense, though it needs to be tied to the use of an active ability and not something that just happens "for free" in the background.

Erickson9610 · March 20

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I think that this makes sense, though it needs to be tied to the use of an active ability and not something that just happens "for free" in the background.

I'd argue that increased stealth radius while sneaking yourself would be a good tradeoff. Plus, that sneaking animation has you sort of sniffing the ground as you prowl around, which looks like a tracking from stealth animation. It doesn't really make sense to have the stealth detection at all times, but rather only when the werewolf is actively using their sense of smell.

Maybe it could be an active ability (Werewolf Grimoire, anyone?) that is toggle that drastically reduces your movement speed but raises your detection radius as you prowl around. But, I think this would be a good reason to give werewolves the ability to sneak as well.

YandereGirlfriend · March 20

Erickson9610 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I think that this makes sense, though it needs to be tied to the use of an active ability and not something that just happens "for free" in the background.

I'd argue that increased stealth radius while sneaking yourself would be a good tradeoff. Plus, that sneaking animation has you sort of sniffing the ground as you prowl around, which looks like a tracking from stealth animation. It doesn't really make sense to have the stealth detection at all times, but rather only when the werewolf is actively using their sense of smell.

Maybe it could be an active ability (Werewolf Grimoire, anyone?) that is toggle that drastically reduces your movement speed but raises your detection radius as you prowl around. But, I think this would be a good reason to give werewolves the ability to sneak as well.

Definitely agree that WWs should be able to sneak. And I think that is a clever idea for crouching (which also limits your movement speed) to provide the effect. That isn't mechanically free and could be both balanced and interesting to use.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · March 20

Better idea, give Werewolves the same detection thing Blood Scions have, it can let you see enemies through walls just not stealthed enemies.

Erickson9610 · March 20

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Better idea, give Werewolves the same detection thing Blood Scions have, it can let you see enemies through walls just not stealthed enemies.

It makes more sense for werewolves to sense stealthed enemies, rather than let them see things through walls. X-ray vision doesn't make sense for werewolves, but maybe vampires would have access to that sort of magic.