I shall drink glasses full of werewolf tears this day!

Roboboy2710 · May 2014

I never actually knew this bug existed until I saw it in the patch notes. Oh well XD

Roboboy2710 · May 2014

In all seriousness, werewolf does need to be fixed, though. Some of these community suggestions are actually pretty good (others... meh.) if Zenimax read through some of the suggestions and take up on some ideas, it might actually be worth it. Still not curing myself, though. I'd like to have it whenever they do rebalance it, because after that happens, former werewolves will be swarming to get it back or something, and prices for it will probably soar to unreasonable hights.

Ravinsild · May 2014

Essentially the issue is this:

With the bug, despite all of the bugs, all of the issues, all of the problems and horribleness....you could find one spot in a zone that you could wolf out and go on a rampage and keep going on that rampage until you got bored.

You would press X and move slightly then smash X again and repeat this process to fill up your werewolf bar then go find another pack of humanoids/beasts.

Literally it was only useful for grinding easy mobs and to enjoy the feral feel of being a wolf. In certain situations you could do things like pounce from the bottom of a cliff to the top and feel like a total badass that just jumped a tall building in a single bound, or pounce from really high up down below for the same effect.

That was it: It made grinding mobs pretty fun.

Now: You run out of werewolf time no matter what. Kill a group of 8 people? Can only devour one corpse before it puts devour on a cooldown which also barely fills up the meter giving you at max an extended 3 seconds in the form before it goes away.

There is literally no enjoyment because your form runs out almost immediately after using it.

There is no rampage, there is no "well at least I can grind here for awhile until i get bored". There's nothing except "Guess I'll transform for now for such a short period of time I can't even get engaged or have fun before it's over. WOO!"

Contrabardus · May 2014

Tie WW transformation to the Moon Cycle. On full moons make WW players stay WW all night with all the bonuses and drawbacks that come with it. Make it mandatory, not a power that is activated. On full moons WW players wolf out until the next morning and it keeps happening every night until the full moon wains.

Keep the short term transformation the rest of the time but tweak it a little to give a bit more time, but still nerfed so it can't be maintained long.

Or better yet, apply a tier system to the Ultimate. Say 200 UP grants a 30 sec transformation with a 50 sec cooldown, 400 a one minute transformation with a 90 sec cooldown, 800 a 90 sec transformation with a 5 min cooldown, and 1000 a 3 min transformation with a 10 min cooldown. Maybe also bump up the poison weakness to 60%-70% while in beast form to balance things for PvP.

I'm sure there will be some complaints about it, but it's a curse, it's supposed to have drawbacks.

Could do something similar to vampires. Buff them a bit more on New Moon nights, but debuff them during the day. Say make the fire weakness drop to 60% from 75% at night and apply the old casting cost levels for vamp skills. Keep enough of a bump to Mist so it can't be constantly spammed and reapply the speed buff on New Moon nights. During the day, everything returns to the current nerfed levels.

Keep the current feeding system as well, if a vamp wants to get the full benefits of a New Moon night, they would need to be stage 3 or 4.

Another nice addition would be to make it so that Vamps can't get above stage 2 during the day unless they are indoors, or in a cave or dungeon. Being outside during the day automatically drops a vamp to stage 2.

If you're going to nerf the skills, make it make sense, and having extra buffs during certain periods where they are more powerful would make the nerfs a lot easier to take.

RPers would love this, and it makes sense for everyone else too. There are enough benefits that the trade off would be worth it even for normal players with the skill lines.

Still fix the bugs of course, but vamp and WW should be OP at certain times of the month. Well, vamp should be just at night, but that would break balance, having it tied to a moon cycle would keep things interesting.

Milf_Hero · May 2014

I have to agree with you, I believe Werewolf form was meant for single target DPS and meant to be used in packs both for PvP and PvE. That is made clear for such abilities as Leader of the Pack and Call of the Pack.

I have a werewolf guild. We have time and time again come out to hunt as a pack. I don't think any of you have even tried to do such a thing in cryodiil. Here is what the problem is when you try to hunt in cryodiil.

You all see a fight happening on the map. My first idea is to run a gank squad as werewolves and jump of a few hopeless people trying to travel back to the fight. First thing is first, we need our ultimate's. You can get it in the fight because you probably will need to use a different ultimate during the actual pvp battle, or you will lose it waiting to try to get an attack on some one with out being singled out and destroyed because you stepped out of your front line to shoot some one. SOOO the pack moves on to kill some npcs. Alright. Lets say we have four people in the pack tonight. We have to grind them all 925 ult points. Ill tell you what, those packs of wolves out there or the imperial camps only have two of four nps at them with quite a respawn time. That's not gonna work. The fight will prolly be moved by that time. Ah lets ride all the way over to this dungeon or above ground ruin, grind for 10-15 minutes then move back to gank stragglers. On the way back two people have already had their 925 ult reset. two people have their ults. Three people come and you attack them. Hopefully that the healer that you brought with you isn't in werewolf form because a werewolf's survivability is *** with out a human form/ or regular non werewolf person healing you in combat. If you ganking more than two people the fight will last longer than the time buffs given by all the werewolf passives. To feed you need to kill some one. You kill some one and then you need to stop to feed. You might as well put up a tree covered in xmas lights, rap yourself up and throw your self under it. Even if everything works out, only two people turned and the whole point of the hunt was to feel like a pack. Which really seemed like two people ganking and two wolves who needed to be constantly healed and were liabilities rather than productive. If anything they were good meat shields.

Milf_Hero · May 2014

My point being, you don't see werewolf packs running in pvp. Because they don't even work well in packs either. The one thing they were suppose to be good at.

Brittany_Joy · May 2014

***_Hero wrote: »

My point being, you don't see werewolf packs running in pvp. Because they don't even work well in packs either. The one thing they were suppose to be good at.

I agree, a werewolf doesn't work well in a pack or solo because of the many drawbacks of transforming into a werewolf. The high ultimate cost for the werewolf transformation makes it too difficult for players to perform a synergy of multiple werewolf transformations. The costly ultimate usually is unused because the ultimate gained resets before any action can be found. The lack of damage mitigation during the werewolf transformation and losing the transformation causes the werewolf to be vulnerable and a possible fatality.

Werewolves are useless because; their damage output can be negated by being afflicted with sparks or any type of CC that nullifies their basic melee attacks. Werewolves are susceptible to CC because they are unable to break out of CC or dodge. Their devour animation is easily interrupted by a simple attack when it should require a bash to stop it. Overall, the werewolf is vulnerable to any type of counter.

Locksoli · May 2014

I'm not mad at zenimax for taking away the exploit. Its just a little disappointing for me that I only get half a minute as a wolf, and feeding barely gives me half that amount back. I just wish there was a way to have an unlimited transformation, where I could shift back at will instead of some stupid time limit. I don't see the werewolf skill as useful, I think its awesome. I just want it to last though...

Roboboy2710 · May 2014

Reduced transformation costs during the night depending on the moon phase would be a good idea, because you would see werewolves more often at night, which makes sense.

Sylinias · May 2014

Morbus2 wrote: »

WW will now know how vamps felt the last "patch". Instead of fixing the many problems with ww, they get nerfed.

Nerfing a class that comes to the table broken is a coup de grace, not a fix.

Sylinias · May 2014

SaibotLiu wrote: »

I wont sugar coat it like the OP did. To me its not about them fixing an exploit. I genuinely just hate vampires and werewolves and think its awesome when you guys throw your little hissy fits.

Yes I am the guy who comes out in his underwear and tells you to GTFO my lawn. I dont really care about my lawn, its just you, all you.

Romboldt · May 2014

Grao wrote: »

ZOS_RobinsonE wrote: »

Hello everyone,

We moved this thread to the World Skill section of the forum as it is about the werewolf skill-line.

Also, it is fine to discuss the incoming patches and fixes, but keep the thread in line with the Forum Code of Conduct.

Are you serious??? We have at least 4 posts going about the Werewolf Situation and instead of a descent reply, that is the best ZOS can do? Relocate our posts so it gets less attention? You can't give us a paragraph about being aware how much you screwed up with the Werewolf skill line, apologize and promise it will be fixed soon? >.> Really??

Welcome to the joys of paid beta and lackluster customer service. I for one wouldn't have signed up if I knew it was still in beta. -.- Furthermore if my PC could handle it I'd be with the countless others jumping ship to Wildstars open beta.

Sylinias · May 2014

Contrabardus wrote: »

You might not like the fact that WW form isn't useful in PvP, but that's not the issue here. The simple fact is that being a normal human player in PvP with a poison weakness is less of a handicap than Vampire is in PvP in it's current state.

Not sure how having the ability to wipe out entire raid parties is a handicap for Vamps...

Sylinias · May 2014

Contrabardus wrote: »

Saying vamp is OP at this point is simply an indication that you are terrible at PvP in ESO. It's not only bugged badly, but also nerfed to the point that if you can't handle them in PvP at this point, it's all on you and not because the skills are OP anymore.

Vampires Skill + Usable Class Skills> Humans w/o Vamp or WW in *any form*. The power of the vamp far outweighs any perceived negatives or people wouldn't be lining up to the get the skill line!

Romboldt · May 2014

Sylinias wrote: »

Contrabardus wrote: »

Saying vamp is OP at this point is simply an indication that you are terrible at PvP in ESO. It's not only bugged badly, but also nerfed to the point that if you can't handle them in PvP at this point, it's all on you and not because the skills are OP anymore.

Vampires Skill + Usable Class Skills> Humans w/o Vamp or WW in *any form*. The power of the vamp far outweighs any perceived negatives or people wouldn't be lining up to the get the skill line!

After the vampire balancing they're much more reasonable now. I don't play one so I don't have that firsthand experience to say what it is compared to being human, but I do know that a vulnerability to fire isn't to be taken lightly in a game where fire is -everywhere-.

Hail_Sithis · May 2014

While the OP is an absolute [Redacted], I agree that people shouldn't be crying about the exploit...It was clearly unintentional, It was destined to get fixed, don't kid yourselves.

However, It'd be nice if we could eat separate bodies without a cooldown, or the ultimate cost was vastly reduced. They'll get to it eventually.

Valthorian1914 · May 2014

concobar wrote: »

finding joy in the misery and sadness of other says something about you and who you are. Your post does not reflect poorly on the WW it reflects poorly on you and is absolutely uncalled for.

It makes me appreciate that there are more players like him out there. Perhaps you need to reread his statement from an unbiased opinion and you'll see he is 100% correct. Exploits. Need. Fixing. And (this is me so you can trash me talking here) if your whole build and playstyle is around an exploit, then you my friend have need of getting more skill. That goes to all of you out there with this mindset.
That being said, I'll gladly cure each and everyone of you. Abominations need not exist in my alliance!

MasterLanz · May 2014

Valthorian1914 wrote: »

concobar wrote: »

finding joy in the misery and sadness of other says something about you and who you are. Your post does not reflect poorly on the WW it reflects poorly on you and is absolutely uncalled for.

It makes me appreciate that there are more players like him out there. Perhaps you need to reread his statement from an unbiased opinion and you'll see he is 100% correct. Exploits. Need. Fixing. And (this is me so you can trash me talking here) if your whole build and playstyle is around an exploit, then you my friend have need of getting more skill. That goes to all of you out there with this mindset.
That being said, I'll gladly cure each and everyone of you. Abominations need not exist in my alliance!

I'm not sure if you just don't understand the dilemma from a werewolf perspective or you're just being naive.

Of course exploits need to be fixed. This isn't a question of fixing or not fixing exploits. It's a question of tact and timing. Yes, exploits should be fixed, but bugs should also be fixed, and imbalances should be fixed.

With werewolf we have a skill line that is bugged, and poorly-made straight from design to implementation. It is so underpowered and so poorly-envisioned that even if they fixed every single bug that was affecting it, it would still be a very poor choice to invest skill points into.

Up until now, players had been using this 'exploit' to make werewolf playable. Honestly, it's not even really an exploit. It's just 'not how it was designed'. In Skyrim you had no limit to how much you could feed and as long as you had something to munch on, you could sustain your wolf form. That was what this exploit ultimately allowed players to do: sustain their form so long as they had food. It wasn't mechanically-imbalanced. It didn't make werewolves OP. It didn't have any negative impact on the game at all. It made a badly-designed game feature actually usable (and even then, only in a handful of environments).

Zenimax has taken that away. They didn't fix ANY of the bugs that make werewolf worse, and they didn't address any of the glaring flaws in the skill line. I would be fine with them taking away the exploit if it had come with improvements that fix werewolf so people didn't need to exploit it to make it worthwhile in the first place. But they didn't. They could have held back on this change and let people at least enjoy werewolf a bit in the meantime while they revamped it, but instead they decided that it was necessary to ruin the one thing keeping this class line floating and just sink the whole concept.

People aren't building around an exploit, and it has nothing to do with skill. It was just a matter of making a horrendously-bugged and badly-designed skill line occasionally fun to use. Nothing has been made balanced because of this fix (if anything, people will be curing their lycanthropy en masse now, and their characters will be stronger for it), no one was overpowered before it was fixed.

In short; this change didn't need to happen right now. It shouldn't have been a priority at this time. It was a completely tactless and irresponsible move by Zenimax that will only make all the players who wanted to play werewolves hate them. The only people made happy by this change are petty and bitter players who either hate werewolves or have been nerfed in other ways and somehow feel werewolves 'deserved' to be made completely useless. Werewolves weren't running around doing anything amazing. You don't see any werewolf emperors, or epic werewolf pvp/pve videos. They didn't need to be taken down a few pegs or anything.

All this fix has proven is that Zenimax doesn't hold werewolf performance to be a high priority, or they're so moronic and so detached from their own playerbase that they don't realize this does more harm than good.

Ravinsild · May 2014

MasterLanz wrote: »

Valthorian1914 wrote: »

concobar wrote: »

finding joy in the misery and sadness of other says something about you and who you are. Your post does not reflect poorly on the WW it reflects poorly on you and is absolutely uncalled for.

It makes me appreciate that there are more players like him out there. Perhaps you need to reread his statement from an unbiased opinion and you'll see he is 100% correct. Exploits. Need. Fixing. And (this is me so you can trash me talking here) if your whole build and playstyle is around an exploit, then you my friend have need of getting more skill. That goes to all of you out there with this mindset.
That being said, I'll gladly cure each and everyone of you. Abominations need not exist in my alliance!

I'm not sure if you just don't understand the dilemma from a werewolf perspective or you're just being naive.

Of course exploits need to be fixed. This isn't a question of fixing or not fixing exploits. It's a question of tact and timing. Yes, exploits should be fixed, but bugs should also be fixed, and imbalances should be fixed.

With werewolf we have a skill line that is bugged, and poorly-made straight from design to implementation. It is so underpowered and so poorly-envisioned that even if they fixed every single bug that was affecting it, it would still be a very poor choice to invest skill points into.

Up until now, players had been using this 'exploit' to make werewolf playable. Honestly, it's not even really an exploit. It's just 'not how it was designed'. In Skyrim you had no limit to how much you could feed and as long as you had something to munch on, you could sustain your wolf form. That was what this exploit ultimately allowed players to do: sustain their form so long as they had food. It wasn't mechanically-imbalanced. It didn't make werewolves OP. It didn't have any negative impact on the game at all. It made a badly-designed game feature actually usable (and even then, only in a handful of environments).

Zenimax has taken that away. They didn't fix ANY of the bugs that make werewolf worse, and they didn't address any of the glaring flaws in the skill line. I would be fine with them taking away the exploit if it had come with improvements that fix werewolf so people didn't need to exploit it to make it worthwhile in the first place. But they didn't. They could have held back on this change and let people at least enjoy werewolf a bit in the meantime while they revamped it, but instead they decided that it was necessary to ruin the one thing keeping this class line floating and just sink the whole concept.

People aren't building around an exploit, and it has nothing to do with skill. It was just a matter of making a horrendously-bugged and badly-designed skill line occasionally fun to use. Nothing has been made balanced because of this fix (if anything, people will be curing their lycanthropy en masse now, and their characters will be stronger for it), no one was overpowered before it was fixed.

In short; this change didn't need to happen right now. It shouldn't have been a priority at this time. It was a completely tactless and irresponsible move by Zenimax that will only make all the players who wanted to play werewolves hate them. The only people made happy by this change are petty and bitter players who either hate werewolves or have been nerfed in other ways and somehow feel werewolves 'deserved' to be made completely useless. Werewolves weren't running around doing anything amazing. You don't see any werewolf emperors, or epic werewolf pvp/pve videos. They didn't need to be taken down a few pegs or anything.

All this fix has proven is that Zenimax doesn't hold werewolf performance to be a high priority, or they're so moronic and so detached from their own playerbase that they don't realize this does more harm than good.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say, but for some reason nobody was listening to me. They just want to argue about "Vampires have it bad too..."

ChampionSheWolf · May 2014

Romboldt wrote: »

Welcome to the joys of paid beta and lackluster customer service. I for one wouldn't have signed up if I knew it was still in beta. -.- Furthermore if my PC could handle it I'd be with the countless others jumping ship to Wildstars open beta.

The plethora of people that will be jumping ship to give up on that game a month later?

Sylinias · May 2014

The short answer to this is to do like I got my Feral Bear brothers to do in WoW - start opening tickets on the issue, start making calls to the help desk, start emailing and raise heck on this so that it gets escalated!

fiachsidhe · May 2014

ZOS_RobinsonE wrote: »

Hello everyone,
We moved this thread to the World Skill section of the forum as it is about the werewolf skill-line.

Also, it is fine to discuss the incoming patches and fixes, but keep the thread in line with the Forum Code of Conduct.

You shouldn't have moved it at all and CLOSED IT. Considering its nothing more than flamebait. Jesus H...

fiachsidhe · May 2014

Fixing that exploit before fixing anything else about WW shows that Zenimax is out of touch. That whoever is in charge has terrible priorities, and lacks common sense or logic. Or maybe they're just lazy and this was an easier fix.

Lord knows a better company would have been hotfixing and patching nonstop since launch with the number of problems this game has. Then again a better company would have properly tested their game and held off on launch. But Zenimax is content to sit back and let the game stink for long periods of time.

Can't say I blame them. These guys are used to leaving wide holes in their code/scripts to be fixed by modders. Its no shock to me that when they have to do it themselves, they are slow and barely responsive.

Still makes me angry as Hell as we have to suffer as a consequence.