Overland Content Feedback Thread

Cooperharley · January 4

shadoza wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

This argument doesn't sit well with me as I have many, many friends who are new to MMOs that found ESO's overland way too easy. Your opinion isn't that of the masses just like mine probably isn't. This doesn't punish anybody. This is an optional difficulty increase for those that want it.

The game is horizontal progression and has an unbelieveable amount of content for new and repeat players. I just don't see logically where you're drawing these conclusions. "Oh gosh, they're adding a hard mode for those that want it. They hate new players." That doesn't make sense at all? If they were increasing difficulty across the board on a mandatory level, I'd agree 100%.

Your friends are like you so what you are reporting is from an echo-chamber environment.
The reason you cannot understand my PoV is because it is not your own.

I think most players do not want to spend time on the internet trying to figure out how to use their skills / build so they don't die. Any game that even suggests that is a necessity, is doomed. I think the average player (the majority of players) gets on the game to have fun. The fun is defined by their own PoV and their own experiences. It might be RPG, it might be casual story mode, it might be playing at being a mega hero. What ever their idea of fun is, should be addressed not just a Reddit echo-chamber voice. There are many players that do not go to social media or threads who also want to enjoy the game.

Perhaps you cannot see the logic in my conclusions is because you are being dismissive regarding the opinions of others.

Well, the reason I bring up learning about your class, which more people like to do than you think, is because there are many that find the veteran difficult in say, dungeons, to be very difficult and the reason is because there's no onboarding to learn about the game and combat up to that point. Only when you get 1 shot in these dungeons or perform poorly and have a bad time do you question, "why?" It'd be better if this happened naturally through solo gameplay in overland while questing than rudely with some toxic players in a dungeon is what I'm getting at.

I also feel as if you're being incredibly hostile over me not understanding you. Your idea of everyone with an opinion different than you coming from an echo chamber is equally dismissive. I welcome your opinion and am just trying to understand it. Do you find when you boot up any story-driven game that has several difficulty mode selections to be against new players? Or do you find that to be welcoming to many kinds of players (i.e. those who want to chill and relax, those who want to be challenged, those who want something in the middle)?

Cooperharley · January 4

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I don't see how adding an optional difficulty mode for Overland is a bad change, considering that it is more than half of the entire game. ZOS even said that it won't be some sort of separate ''Vet Overland Instance'', so the playerbase won't be fragmented into different layers.

Is wanting an optional mode that is not balanced around lvl3 white gear, no food, no set, no cp characters seriously considered a toxic and elitist request?

I think there are some that are just making a lot of negative assumptions before anything has even been showcased.

Many also seem to not understand the way sharding works. The server may only be able to handle lets say 100 people in Auridon, so if there are 200, it creates 2 versions of Auridon. They think well, let's say half of the people in the game want to go to this new difficulty and so my world will be half as full rather than understanding their shard would be filled until maximal capacity.

We also don't even know if it's going to create separate instances or what to be fair. The big thing is some people just hate change and if an option of gameplay is added that isn't the option that they want, regardless of the fact that it doesn't change their gameplay, they'll be upset. It's impossible to please everyone and if you look throughout much of this thread, there's about 8-10 people that have been extremely negative about this (and often are about most threads if you tend to browse through the forums

). It's just the way it is.

Sarannah · January 4

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I don't see how adding an optional difficulty mode for Overland is a bad change, considering that it is more than half of the entire game. ZOS even said that it won't be some sort of separate ''Vet Overland Instance'', so the playerbase won't be fragmented into different layers.

Is wanting an optional mode that is not balanced around lvl3 white gear, no food, no set, no cp characters seriously considered a toxic and elitist request?

Absolutely noone thinks asking for more difficult overland is toxic or elitist, atleast I do not. Honestly, I think it is a fair request from players and I may even use it if it feels good. Depending on how ZOS implements this feature.

With my posts I just want to make sure all angles are considered and that the feature implementation will be fair to all players, even to those not using the feature.

Question: Are other roles than DD taken into account with increased overland difficulty? Missing out on being able to use increased difficulty overland(and any possible rewards it may grant) due to being specced a tank or healer should not happen, even if they are only specced healer/tank while queueing for groupcontent.

PS: I am glad ZOS has already stated separate veteran instances will not happen.

disky · January 4

BananaBender wrote: »

I refuse to believe the vast majority of players who have downloaded addons have done so to make overland content easier for them. They are really helpful and useful for dungeons and trials, but not needed for overland content.

I know I'm an outlier but I actually use addons to make the game more challenging. I use TrueExploration and PinKiller which obfuscate the map and hide quest pins in order to make exploration more involved, because I don't want to play a game in which I'm just running from marker to marker because to me, that's not a game. I honestly wish these were built into the game, and ideally, the default settings. If quests were written with this in mind, it wouldn't be a problem.

disky · January 4

Sarannah wrote: »

Question: Are other roles than DD taken into account with increased overland difficulty? Missing out on being able to use increased difficulty overland(and any possible rewards it may grant) due to being specced a tank or healer should not happen, even if they are only specced healer/tank while queueing for groupcontent.

Yes, because this is an optional feature. If you want to use it, use it. If you don't, don't. The rewards are not going to blow anyone's mind or give anyone a significant advantage because the devs know that the exact thing you're doing right now will happen. It's only going to be enough to justify increasing difficulty for those who wanted it but wouldn't otherwise consider it if they weren't compensated in-kind.

And to be clear: I have a tank, I have a healer. I also have many, many ways to change their build for a more challenging setting. I personally welcome this new environment because it will allow me to test these characters in new ways.

Alaztor91 · January 4

Sarannah wrote: »

Question: Are other roles than DD taken into account with increased overland difficulty? Missing out on being able to use increased difficulty overland(and any possible rewards it may grant) due to being specced a tank or healer should not happen, even if they are only specced healer/tank while queueing for groupcontent.

Hopefully they take this into consideration, afaik only ''Incursion'' type encounters like Dragons/Harrowstoms/Geysers/etc give loot to everyone and not just the top 12 damage dealers. If the varied levels of difficulty that ZOS mentioned make it so that something like a WB is challenging enough to the point where you actually need Tanks or Healers it would be unfair for them not to receive rewards.

shadoza · January 4

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

This argument doesn't sit well with me as I have many, many friends who are new to MMOs that found ESO's overland way too easy. Your opinion isn't that of the masses just like mine probably isn't. This doesn't punish anybody. This is an optional difficulty increase for those that want it.

The game is horizontal progression and has an unbelieveable amount of content for new and repeat players. I just don't see logically where you're drawing these conclusions. "Oh gosh, they're adding a hard mode for those that want it. They hate new players." That doesn't make sense at all? If they were increasing difficulty across the board on a mandatory level, I'd agree 100%.

Your friends are like you so what you are reporting is from an echo-chamber environment.
The reason you cannot understand my PoV is because it is not your own.

I think most players do not want to spend time on the internet trying to figure out how to use their skills / build so they don't die. Any game that even suggests that is a necessity, is doomed. I think the average player (the majority of players) gets on the game to have fun. The fun is defined by their own PoV and their own experiences. It might be RPG, it might be casual story mode, it might be playing at being a mega hero. What ever their idea of fun is, should be addressed not just a Reddit echo-chamber voice. There are many players that do not go to social media or threads who also want to enjoy the game.

Perhaps you cannot see the logic in my conclusions is because you are being dismissive regarding the opinions of others.

Well, the reason I bring up learning about your class, which more people like to do than you think, is because there are many that find the veteran difficult in say, dungeons, to be very difficult and the reason is because there's no onboarding to learn about the game and combat up to that point. Only when you get 1 shot in these dungeons or perform poorly and have a bad time do you question, "why?" It'd be better if this happened naturally through solo gameplay in overland while questing than rudely with some toxic players in a dungeon is what I'm getting at.

I also feel as if you're being incredibly hostile over me not understanding you. Your idea of everyone with an opinion different than you coming from an echo chamber is equally dismissive. I welcome your opinion and am just trying to understand it. Do you find when you boot up any story-driven game that has several difficulty mode selections to be against new players? Or do you find that to be welcoming to many kinds of players (i.e. those who want to chill and relax, those who want to be challenged, those who want something in the middle)?

Where is the hostility? Because my opinion is not yours?
When people group, they do so because they have like minds (beliefs.) When the only people you listen to are those in your own circle or group, you are indeed in an echo chamber.
Everyone in my group agree (echo chamber style) that we are tired of financially supporting advancements in the game that do not interests us. We decided we do not control the game, therefore, we will simply pull our financial support and put our money where it will work for us.

What MMO allows a new player to decided a difficulty level?
I have only noticed single player games offering difficulty settings.

Arrodisia · January 5

shadoza wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

This argument doesn't sit well with me as I have many, many friends who are new to MMOs that found ESO's overland way too easy. Your opinion isn't that of the masses just like mine probably isn't. This doesn't punish anybody. This is an optional difficulty increase for those that want it.

The game is horizontal progression and has an unbelieveable amount of content for new and repeat players. I just don't see logically where you're drawing these conclusions. "Oh gosh, they're adding a hard mode for those that want it. They hate new players." That doesn't make sense at all? If they were increasing difficulty across the board on a mandatory level, I'd agree 100%.

Your friends are like you so what you are reporting is from an echo-chamber environment.
The reason you cannot understand my PoV is because it is not your own.

I think most players do not want to spend time on the internet trying to figure out how to use their skills / build so they don't die. Any game that even suggests that is a necessity, is doomed. I think the average player (the majority of players) gets on the game to have fun. The fun is defined by their own PoV and their own experiences. It might be RPG, it might be casual story mode, it might be playing at being a mega hero. What ever their idea of fun is, should be addressed not just a Reddit echo-chamber voice. There are many players that do not go to social media or threads who also want to enjoy the game.

Perhaps you cannot see the logic in my conclusions is because you are being dismissive regarding the opinions of others.

Well, the reason I bring up learning about your class, which more people like to do than you think, is because there are many that find the veteran difficult in say, dungeons, to be very difficult and the reason is because there's no onboarding to learn about the game and combat up to that point. Only when you get 1 shot in these dungeons or perform poorly and have a bad time do you question, "why?" It'd be better if this happened naturally through solo gameplay in overland while questing than rudely with some toxic players in a dungeon is what I'm getting at.

I also feel as if you're being incredibly hostile over me not understanding you. Your idea of everyone with an opinion different than you coming from an echo chamber is equally dismissive. I welcome your opinion and am just trying to understand it. Do you find when you boot up any story-driven game that has several difficulty mode selections to be against new players? Or do you find that to be welcoming to many kinds of players (i.e. those who want to chill and relax, those who want to be challenged, those who want something in the middle)?

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

This argument doesn't sit well with me as I have many, many friends who are new to MMOs that found ESO's overland way too easy. Your opinion isn't that of the masses just like mine probably isn't. This doesn't punish anybody. This is an optional difficulty increase for those that want it.

The game is horizontal progression and has an unbelieveable amount of content for new and repeat players. I just don't see logically where you're drawing these conclusions. "Oh gosh, they're adding a hard mode for those that want it. They hate new players." That doesn't make sense at all? If they were increasing difficulty across the board on a mandatory level, I'd agree 100%.

Your friends are like you so what you are reporting is from an echo-chamber environment.
The reason you cannot understand my PoV is because it is not your own.

I think most players do not want to spend time on the internet trying to figure out how to use their skills / build so they don't die. Any game that even suggests that is a necessity, is doomed. I think the average player (the majority of players) gets on the game to have fun. The fun is defined by their own PoV and their own experiences. It might be RPG, it might be casual story mode, it might be playing at being a mega hero. What ever their idea of fun is, should be addressed not just a Reddit echo-chamber voice. There are many players that do not go to social media or threads who also want to enjoy the game.

Perhaps you cannot see the logic in my conclusions is because you are being dismissive regarding the opinions of others.

Well, the reason I bring up learning about your class, which more people like to do than you think, is because there are many that find the veteran difficult in say, dungeons, to be very difficult and the reason is because there's no onboarding to learn about the game and combat up to that point. Only when you get 1 shot in these dungeons or perform poorly and have a bad time do you question, "why?" It'd be better if this happened naturally through solo gameplay in overland while questing than rudely with some toxic players in a dungeon is what I'm getting at.

I also feel as if you're being incredibly hostile over me not understanding you. Your idea of everyone with an opinion different than you coming from an echo chamber is equally dismissive. I welcome your opinion and am just trying to understand it. Do you find when you boot up any story-driven game that has several difficulty mode selections to be against new players? Or do you find that to be welcoming to many kinds of players (i.e. those who want to chill and relax, those who want to be challenged, those who want something in the middle)?

Where is the hostility? Because my opinion is not yours?
When people group, they do so because they have like minds (beliefs.) When the only people you listen to are those in your own circle or group, you are indeed in an echo chamber.
Everyone in my group agree (echo chamber style) that we are tired of financially supporting advancements in the game that do not interests us. We decided we do not control the game, therefore, we will simply pull our financial support and put our money where it will work for us.

What MMO allows a new player to decided a difficulty level?
I have only noticed single player games offering difficulty settings.

I read through your reply twice. I didn't find any hostility within the text which was quoted. All I saw was an anstutely observative reply, genuine questioning of what is and isn't and your take on how players will respond when the game is no longer fun for them. I think. It's a pretty fair wrap up. You have a right to your opinion, as much as anyone else.

ESO_player123 · January 5

shadoza wrote: »

I am 100% sure one could not and that statement is stale.
If add-ons did not make the content easier, players wouldn't use them.
I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.
When one works in an echo-chamber, one voice sounds like a thousand. I believe it is a small percentage of players that are demanding more difficulty in overland. I stand on my statement: The folks that are demanding overland difficult have not shown the disciple to increase difficult where they can do it easier. If they did, they would use overland gear and empty their CP tray of combat assistance. They won't do it. They make excuses instead. This habit is not going to change with a new difficulty option. That feature is a waste of development time.

If a level 10 player encounters something that they cannot beat just yet (I'm not talking about DLC world bosses here), all they need to do is level up and pick up several better pieces of gear in the process. Even a new player stays at level 10 for such a short period of time, that retreating and coming back later should not be too time consuming. If I remember correctly even one of the game screens says something along these lines (I do not remember exact text unfortunately).

The whole overland should not be designed around level 10s because leveling a toon to level 50 (and even to 160) takes such a short time that crafting any decent permanent gear is generally a waste of resources until 160.

Edit: messed up quotes

shadoza · January 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I am 100% sure one could not and that statement is stale.
If add-ons did not make the content easier, players wouldn't use them.
I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.
When one works in an echo-chamber, one voice sounds like a thousand. I believe it is a small percentage of players that are demanding more difficulty in overland. I stand on my statement: The folks that are demanding overland difficult have not shown the disciple to increase difficult where they can do it easier. If they did, they would use overland gear and empty their CP tray of combat assistance. They won't do it. They make excuses instead. This habit is not going to change with a new difficulty option. That feature is a waste of development time.

If a level 10 player encounters something that they cannot beat just yet (I'm not talking about DLC world bosses here), all they need to do is level up and pick up several better pieces of gear in the process. Even a new player stays at level 10 for such a short period of time, that retreating and coming back later should not be too time consuming. If I remember correctly even one of the game screens says something along these lines (I do not remember exact text unfortunately).

The whole overland should not be designed around level 10s because leveling a toon to level 50 (and even to 160) takes such a short time that crafting any decent permanent gear is generally a waste of resources until 160.

Edit: messed up quotes

You missed the point of my statement.

ESO_player123 · January 5

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I am 100% sure one could not and that statement is stale.
If add-ons did not make the content easier, players wouldn't use them.
I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.
When one works in an echo-chamber, one voice sounds like a thousand. I believe it is a small percentage of players that are demanding more difficulty in overland. I stand on my statement: The folks that are demanding overland difficult have not shown the disciple to increase difficult where they can do it easier. If they did, they would use overland gear and empty their CP tray of combat assistance. They won't do it. They make excuses instead. This habit is not going to change with a new difficulty option. That feature is a waste of development time.

If a level 10 player encounters something that they cannot beat just yet (I'm not talking about DLC world bosses here), all they need to do is level up and pick up several better pieces of gear in the process. Even a new player stays at level 10 for such a short period of time, that retreating and coming back later should not be too time consuming. If I remember correctly even one of the game screens says something along these lines (I do not remember exact text unfortunately).

The whole overland should not be designed around level 10s because leveling a toon to level 50 (and even to 160) takes such a short time that crafting any decent permanent gear is generally a waste of resources until 160.

Edit: messed up quotes

You missed the point of my statement.

I do not think so. You keep bringing examples of what low level players cannot do as a proof of that they somehow are going to be penalized by the optional feature of harder overland.

Please note that I'm not one of the players that have been requesting this feature (even though I've been lately eyerolling at the ease of the quest line bosses). I just think that as long as it's a) not mandatory and b) not going to replace new areas to explore, it could be good for the game.

shadoza · January 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I am 100% sure one could not and that statement is stale.
If add-ons did not make the content easier, players wouldn't use them.
I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.
When one works in an echo-chamber, one voice sounds like a thousand. I believe it is a small percentage of players that are demanding more difficulty in overland. I stand on my statement: The folks that are demanding overland difficult have not shown the disciple to increase difficult where they can do it easier. If they did, they would use overland gear and empty their CP tray of combat assistance. They won't do it. They make excuses instead. This habit is not going to change with a new difficulty option. That feature is a waste of development time.

If a level 10 player encounters something that they cannot beat just yet (I'm not talking about DLC world bosses here), all they need to do is level up and pick up several better pieces of gear in the process. Even a new player stays at level 10 for such a short period of time, that retreating and coming back later should not be too time consuming. If I remember correctly even one of the game screens says something along these lines (I do not remember exact text unfortunately).

The whole overland should not be designed around level 10s because leveling a toon to level 50 (and even to 160) takes such a short time that crafting any decent permanent gear is generally a waste of resources until 160.

Edit: messed up quotes

You missed the point of my statement.

I do not think so. You keep bringing examples of what low level players cannot do as a proof of that they somehow are going to be penalized by the optional feature of harder overland.

Please note that I'm not one of the players that have been requesting this feature (even though I've been lately eyerolling at the ease of the quest line bosses). I just think that as long as it's a) not mandatory and b) not going to replace new areas to explore, it could be good for the game.

No. The statement regarding my level 10 character was addressing the claim that the overland could be played without gear. It can't. The folks claiming this either never tried it or leave their CPs and bots active when streaming themselves 'naked.' Can you stand in on spot and live through a passive attack, yes. You can do this because your recover rate is increased through your passive skills. If you attack back once, then go back to static, the foe will change from a passive attack to a more aggressive attack.

(When looking for an argument, you will find one where there is none.)

Attorneyatlawl · January 6

Still standing by for the system details and introduction

. I browse a lot of computer and game forums, and every time someone asks about playing eso, someone brings up how the overworld is easier than WOW, which is already considered so easy it's a complete bore and turnoff.

People don't wait until vet trials to care about the difficulty, they just quit because they don't want to play 100000 hours of boredom to get to interesting gameplay.

I've never seen anyone, in literally over a decade of talking about eso, say the questing is anything but trivial. Some found the vet overland hard for some quest bosses and world bosses, and would ask for help during beta and launch, but most even there found it straightforward enough to only be slightly challenging.

Adding no xp bonus and rewards would be contradictory to basic game design in every video game ever. Harder content must reward more or you're punishing yourself for playing it by getting less for doing more.

P. S. I have never seen such toxicity and hostility on an mmorpg forum against game options as I have on the eso boards over time, and I've played them since eq1 launch.

Sarannah · January 6

Question: What happens to companions with the overland increased difficulty setting? Will they stay as they are, will they become stronger to match the chosen difficulty, will they be disabled to increase the difficulty? How are companions handled with this feature?

twisttop138 · January 6

Sarannah wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I'm on the belief that they will be more gold and xp, with perhaps the zone gear garbage you would've gotten but in purple quality. We're close to the reveal of this optional system. Let's see what they have cooking before we flip the table.

Any better reward(s) than the normal (now) overland difficulty setting should not exist. As this will make overland feel punishing/bad to everyone who does not increase the difficulty. Even if it is only 10 gold/10 exp, players will feel like they are missing out. Which is really demotivating. Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty. Not sure if that demotivation may have a negative effect on the playerbase though, but I personally would not play a game where it feels bad to play 24/7 due to knowing I am missing out on rewards. And I am someone who loves doing overland content at a relaxing pace.

The difficulty is/was supposed to be the reward. Atleast, that is how this thread started.

PS: Purple quality gear, and the purple deconstruction materials from deconstructing those, are a veteran dungeon level reward! Handing those out in overland would be a terrible decision.

Hey totally respect your opinion on that. I'm just saying we do not know the details, so let's see what they are before we get upset. Maybe not you personally, but the royal we.
You make a good point about purple gear but that's just a guess. They've already said there will be added rewards, so that train left the station. We'll just have to see what those are.

twisttop138 · January 6

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

Are we really turning this into an epic struggle against the toxic chad elites by the poor oppressed silent majority of casual players? This is the, bar none hands down, most casual friendly mmo out there. The other one being swtor. A great game by the by. There is no cabal of elitist players conspiring with the dev team to hurt players who don't want to group. There is no punishment. We don't even know the details. I wish we could dispense with stuff like this.

Tariq9898 · January 6

The livestream is tomorrow. But does anyone know the time it’ll start and where to watch it??

Edit: found the details! 3 pm EST at twitch.tv/bethesda

shadoza · January 6

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Still standing by for the system details and introduction . I browse a lot of computer and game forums, and every time someone asks about playing eso, someone brings up how the overworld is easier than WOW, which is already considered so easy it's a complete bore and turnoff.

People don't wait until vet trials to care about the difficulty, they just quit because they don't want to play 100000 hours of boredom to get to interesting gameplay.

I've never seen anyone, in literally over a decade of talking about eso, say the questing is anything but trivial. Some found the vet overland hard for some quest bosses and world bosses, and would ask for help during beta and launch, but most even there found it straightforward enough to only be slightly challenging.

Adding no xp bonus and rewards would be contradictory to basic game design in every video game ever. Harder content must reward more or you're punishing yourself for playing it by getting less for doing more.

P. S. I have never seen such toxicity and hostility on an mmorpg forum against game options as I have on the eso boards over time, and I've played them since eq1 launch.

Perhaps you have never heard anyone say those things because your circle believes as you do. I have never in my more than a decade of play heard anyone say they wanted the game to be more difficult. Only here; never in game. j/s

P.S. I have. Most MMOs have toxic fora because the players are always divided and passionate about their side of any issue.

shadoza · January 6

twisttop138 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

Are we really turning this into an epic struggle against the toxic chad elites by the poor oppressed silent majority of casual players? This is the, bar none hands down, most casual friendly mmo out there. The other one being swtor. A great game by the by. There is no cabal of elitist players conspiring with the dev team to hurt players who don't want to group. There is no punishment. We don't even know the details. I wish we could dispense with stuff like this.

I have no idea what you are turning into. I am just expressing my opinion and placing my interests. To show how different we are in experience: I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is junk. I do not know any players who still plays it. TESO is not casual friendly.

twisttop138 · January 6

shadoza wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

Are we really turning this into an epic struggle against the toxic chad elites by the poor oppressed silent majority of casual players? This is the, bar none hands down, most casual friendly mmo out there. The other one being swtor. A great game by the by. There is no cabal of elitist players conspiring with the dev team to hurt players who don't want to group. There is no punishment. We don't even know the details. I wish we could dispense with stuff like this.

I have no idea what you are turning into. I am just expressing my opinion and placing my interests. To show how different we are in experience: I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is junk. I do not know any players who still plays it. TESO is not casual friendly.

Oh, I wouldn't know I haven't played since 2015 but it has amazing fully voices stories. As for casual friendly, it doesn't get more casual, solo oriented then ESO. Our definitions must differ.

Lysorris · January 6

shadoza wrote: »

I have no idea what you are turning into. I am just expressing my opinion and placing my interests. To show how different we are in experience: I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is junk. I do not know any players who still plays it. TESO is not casual friendly.

ESO is the most casual friendly MMO out there, claiming it's not it's is beyond. But maybe it's truly isn't - like you said, giving players overland scaling is exactly what this game needs and it's player base wants - I mean it is not causal game then it has nothing to do with casual players. They don't know what kind of game they play? Are you claiming that you are causal player, playing non causal MMO demanding causal things? Or maybe ESO is already casual and that's why you enjoy playing it?

Make it make sense.

shadoza wrote: »

Perhaps you have never heard anyone say those things because your circle believes as you do. I have never in my more than a decade of play heard anyone say they wanted the game to be more difficult. Only here; never in game. j/s

P.S. I have. Most MMOs have toxic fora because the players are always divided and passionate about their side of any issue.

Forums are for sharing your thoughts about the game, game chat is not. When I play - I play, I don't discuss things over on the game chat to respect players that RP or simply to not stir drama. If someone comes to forums it is to share their thoughts. Are you saying these voices don't matter because it's on forums and not in game? Have you thought that maybe in game you are in your bubble of friends and guild that may think the same? It's very toxic behavior to disregard someone experience like that.

I mean I don't see anyone in game in game saying they want things easier... I mean.... recently I don't see much of life in game these days.... I wonder... What is the issue? Maybe it was discussed? Somewhere, I don't know? Maybe on forums? Bah! Forums don't matter - that's why this thread has only 323 pages!

On the topic of announced changes - I could not be happier. I am waiting for 2026 stream. I totally understand that changes like these are not easy, and they need to take their time. I will be happily waiting. Resilience of many players hoping for the best, still being here proves that ESO may have some great things ahead if done right.

shadoza · January 6

Lysorris wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I have no idea what you are turning into. I am just expressing my opinion and placing my interests. To show how different we are in experience: I think Star Wars: The Old Republic is junk. I do not know any players who still plays it. TESO is not casual friendly.

ESO is the most casual friendly MMO out there, claiming it's not it's is beyond. But maybe it's truly isn't - like you said, giving players overland scaling is exactly what this game needs and it's player base wants - I mean it is not causal game then it has nothing to do with casual players. They don't know what kind of game they play? Are you claiming that you are causal player, playing non causal MMO demanding causal things? Or maybe ESO is already casual and that's why you enjoy playing it?

Make it make sense.

shadoza wrote: »

Perhaps you have never heard anyone say those things because your circle believes as you do. I have never in my more than a decade of play heard anyone say they wanted the game to be more difficult. Only here; never in game. j/s

P.S. I have. Most MMOs have toxic fora because the players are always divided and passionate about their side of any issue.

Forums are for sharing your thoughts about the game, game chat is not. When I play - I play, I don't discuss things over on the game chat to respect players that RP or simply to not stir drama. If someone comes to forums it is to share their thoughts. Are you saying these voices don't matter because it's on forums and not in game? Have you thought that maybe in game you are in your bubble of friends and guild that may think the same? It's very toxic behavior to disregard someone experience like that.

I mean I don't see anyone in game in game saying they want things easier... I mean.... recently I don't see much of life in game these days.... I wonder... What is the issue? Maybe it was discussed? Somewhere, I don't know? Maybe on forums? Bah! Forums don't matter - that's why this thread has only 323 pages!

On the topic of announced changes - I could not be happier. I am waiting for 2026 stream. I totally understand that changes like these are not easy, and they need to take their time. I will be happily waiting. Resilience of many players hoping for the best, still being here proves that ESO may have some great things ahead if done right.

I have no idea what you are carrying on about.

(When looking for an argument, you will find one where there is none.)

allmyxlvntx · 12:26PM

While Overland content has been relatively easy with a few instances of challenge here and there... It is the storyline that brings me back to it on different characters, usually in the hunt for more skill points for a toon that I am using in trial or dungeon groups where having multiple weapon and guild skill lines is not necessarily a must but very nice to have.

Siege camps in general have been "harder" to do. However there are a multiple of "dolmen" type world events in the game that can stay easy BUT why not occasionally drop a "super-dragon" that requires a lot more effort to kill with a much better than normal reward for doing so. I can see the chat in game with "super-dragon in S Elswyr" and people will get there to kill a monster that has the opportunity to drop 50 dragon rheum as an example or even a nice mount. Same with Harrowstorms, volcanic vents, portals etc.. once an hour, or two... why not? It will bring players back to zones that are quiet and help those casual players who are working through the zone who enjoy story and exploring.

As to end game community, it exists in many aspects, usually quiet and in guilds. Yes HM trials and especially DLC dungeons are fun, challenging and need a team effort with full voice communication. Yes I work on my damage, healing, occasionally tanking (not over last two years though)... and learn mechanics. This to me is rewarding and being somewhat of a completionist (there is even a few discords that are achievement point oriented) I have liked this aspect... and my stickerbook is full except for vBRP just a few runs to go. Games like this require a full spectrum of players from casual to hardcore (I know a few who drop such high damage per second it is unbelievable LOL) and have rewards for effort is key to me at all levels.

Respect for a player's time and effort... keep the focus on that. And they will keep playing and return.

twisttop138 · 2:03PM

Fallout 76 is introducing a new feature. At the end of an event (you could almost say an event there is like a dolmen, a short activity for multiple people) there will now be a chance for a super enemy to spawn. They're putting bigfoot into the game and he along with others will have a chance to spawn at the end. Not affecting the outcome of the activity but post activity. I think something like that, to @allmyxlvntx point. With the chance to drop rare furnishings or something. I think on top of being easy, we have a reward issue in game. I love harrowstorms. But many people don't like doing them because the rewards are crap and the daily has a tiny chance to drop a cool structural plan. It's my opinion we need to think of new types of rewards or more types of rewards and disperse them out into the game.

Edited to fix the end that got cut off somehow.