shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Arrodisia wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
From the website:
We’ll also share more details in the following months on the topics we’re only able to cover briefly in the show, such as the introduction of optional Overland Difficulty modes that offer greater challenges and rewards.
. . . keep bringing us your questions, thoughts, and ideas. We’re looking forward to hearing from you.
My Thoughts:
This is very sad information for me and my gaming friends. Continuous catering to end-game players while ignoring the needs and desires for the new players and repeating players*, will end badly for everyone save those that speed-run to end game then stand about complaining that nothing is challenging enough.

ESO is becoming top-heavy. You gave them group-only dungeons, increased-difficulty group-only dungeons, trials, Special overland content in Craglorn, Infinite Archive, alliance PvP, and battlegrounds PvP. They want more. They, the cappers, want the entire game handed over to them and you are playing to do just that even if it sacrifices the new and repeat players. So sad to see this happen to another MMO.

Maybe you should add another level of payment to the subs to cover the extra benefits and game content that those capped-out group players are demanding. It feels like my monthly fee is subsidizing advancement for content that I do not want or will not use. Why should I have to pay monthly for content that is directed at a game demography that I am not a part of? Seriously, if this increased difficulty happens in the game, I will likely drop my sub and just play free until the game crashes.

You give them better gear, better pots, and better enchantments, but they want more. They will always want more because every time you give them more difficult content, you also give them better gear and resources that will make that difficult content easier. Why you cannot see how your solution perpetuates the problem, I do not know. (It is like the 'guy' that keeps increasing his credit card limit to pay off his debts.)

* Repeating players are those that like to mix up their playing with new combinations of skills, classes, and character types. They are advanced players but do not have high level characters because they keep starting fresh ones which allows them to repeat content with renewed circumstances.

Yes. Difficulty options need to be added for all that content in order to allow more players to engage with it.

The players demanding the toggle will not play overland any more than they do now. They will play until the newness wears off, then they will be back to demanding better gear and harder content elsewhere. They've been doing it since before One Tamriel. All players can already engage with overland content.

The type of player that demands overland difficulty is the same type that runs from entrance to final boss in dungeons without taking in the story or exploring the environment. If TOS forced players to pick up a token by defeating minor bosses and targets in the dungeon before they can activate the final boss, there might be less complaining about simple overland because they would have their questing challenge right there.

In my opinion, they don't want a challenge at all. They want control. If the players wanted a challenge, they could have it easy enough. They could trade in their v-dungeon gear and pots and use simple overland gear. They won't because they don't want a challenge, they want control.

Absolutely this. I see this constantly in this MMO and others. That small less than 5% clique crowd attempting to control the entire content release for the majority. They suggest bunches of bad balancing changes, awful mechanics for bosses, behave in self entitled, arrogant, rude, impatient and even toxic manner on the servers. Besides creating fake drama around every corner, that type of crowd turns good games into something that's no longer fun, because these games have become their entire life.

They jump from guild to guild and game to game wherever they can convince devs to ramp up difficulty and troll other players. So they can sell runs for what ends up being real money in the end. They aren't interested in the health and fun of the game. They aren't interested in the losses a company takes as a long as they make money. Then the expac flops and droves of players leave the servers barren. We've already seen this bit of history repeat itself.

Last time players cried for nerfs to "wink wink" feel a challenge. Those same "high end" players who wanted this left the game. They didn't even wait. They straight up left on the 1st few days of release. The content became harder for everyone because of that pack of complainers and oh. What a surprise! They didn't want to embarrass themselves having to prog it again with a chance of failure looming nearby. That amount of "big talk"ego says it all. I'll stop here.

Any difficulty changes should be optional. Everyone pays to play this game. So everyone should be able to enjoy it. Have a good day playing.

It's completely untrue, and the only reason I believe you feel this way is because it's not something you want. The assessment that the type of person who wants this is the same as the person who would speedrun the content is totally fallacious because obviously, if someone wants a challenge then they're not going to be speedrunning the content. I have waited years to play much of the overland content in this game because the bits that I have played are completely underwhelming, precisely because they are too easy. I wish more people would think a little more deeply about this. Just because you like things the way they are, it's doesn't mean they're a waste of time to develop.

A significant portion of players I have personally interacted with have left the game because of this issue, and there is a reason that this very thread is the largest on the forum. I urge you to gain perspective beyond the bounds of your own interests.

The reason this thread is very large is because it is a consolidation of numerous threads regarding the broad topic of Overland Content Feedback. It is not indicative of everyone wanting the same thing.

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Arrodisia wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
From the website:
We’ll also share more details in the following months on the topics we’re only able to cover briefly in the show, such as the introduction of optional Overland Difficulty modes that offer greater challenges and rewards.
. . . keep bringing us your questions, thoughts, and ideas. We’re looking forward to hearing from you.
My Thoughts:
This is very sad information for me and my gaming friends. Continuous catering to end-game players while ignoring the needs and desires for the new players and repeating players*, will end badly for everyone save those that speed-run to end game then stand about complaining that nothing is challenging enough.

ESO is becoming top-heavy. You gave them group-only dungeons, increased-difficulty group-only dungeons, trials, Special overland content in Craglorn, Infinite Archive, alliance PvP, and battlegrounds PvP. They want more. They, the cappers, want the entire game handed over to them and you are playing to do just that even if it sacrifices the new and repeat players. So sad to see this happen to another MMO.

Maybe you should add another level of payment to the subs to cover the extra benefits and game content that those capped-out group players are demanding. It feels like my monthly fee is subsidizing advancement for content that I do not want or will not use. Why should I have to pay monthly for content that is directed at a game demography that I am not a part of? Seriously, if this increased difficulty happens in the game, I will likely drop my sub and just play free until the game crashes.

You give them better gear, better pots, and better enchantments, but they want more. They will always want more because every time you give them more difficult content, you also give them better gear and resources that will make that difficult content easier. Why you cannot see how your solution perpetuates the problem, I do not know. (It is like the 'guy' that keeps increasing his credit card limit to pay off his debts.)

* Repeating players are those that like to mix up their playing with new combinations of skills, classes, and character types. They are advanced players but do not have high level characters because they keep starting fresh ones which allows them to repeat content with renewed circumstances.

Yes. Difficulty options need to be added for all that content in order to allow more players to engage with it.

The players demanding the toggle will not play overland any more than they do now. They will play until the newness wears off, then they will be back to demanding better gear and harder content elsewhere. They've been doing it since before One Tamriel. All players can already engage with overland content.

The type of player that demands overland difficulty is the same type that runs from entrance to final boss in dungeons without taking in the story or exploring the environment. If TOS forced players to pick up a token by defeating minor bosses and targets in the dungeon before they can activate the final boss, there might be less complaining about simple overland because they would have their questing challenge right there.

In my opinion, they don't want a challenge at all. They want control. If the players wanted a challenge, they could have it easy enough. They could trade in their v-dungeon gear and pots and use simple overland gear. They won't because they don't want a challenge, they want control.

Absolutely this. I see this constantly in this MMO and others. That small less than 5% clique crowd attempting to control the entire content release for the majority. They suggest bunches of bad balancing changes, awful mechanics for bosses, behave in self entitled, arrogant, rude, impatient and even toxic manner on the servers. Besides creating fake drama around every corner, that type of crowd turns good games into something that's no longer fun, because these games have become their entire life.

They jump from guild to guild and game to game wherever they can convince devs to ramp up difficulty and troll other players. So they can sell runs for what ends up being real money in the end. They aren't interested in the health and fun of the game. They aren't interested in the losses a company takes as a long as they make money. Then the expac flops and droves of players leave the servers barren. We've already seen this bit of history repeat itself.

Last time players cried for nerfs to "wink wink" feel a challenge. Those same "high end" players who wanted this left the game. They didn't even wait. They straight up left on the 1st few days of release. The content became harder for everyone because of that pack of complainers and oh. What a surprise! They didn't want to embarrass themselves having to prog it again with a chance of failure looming nearby. That amount of "big talk"ego says it all. I'll stop here.

Any difficulty changes should be optional. Everyone pays to play this game. So everyone should be able to enjoy it. Have a good day playing.

It's completely untrue, and the only reason I believe you feel this way is because it's not something you want. The assessment that the type of person who wants this is the same as the person who would speedrun the content is totally fallacious because obviously, if someone wants a challenge then they're not going to be speedrunning the content. I have waited years to play much of the overland content in this game because the bits that I have played are completely underwhelming, precisely because they are too easy. I wish more people would think a little more deeply about this. Just because you like things the way they are, it's doesn't mean they're a waste of time to develop.

A significant portion of players I have personally interacted with have left the game because of this issue, and there is a reason that this very thread is the largest on the forum. I urge you to gain perspective beyond the bounds of your own interests.

The reason this thread is very large is because it is a consolidation of numerous threads regarding the broad topic of Overland Content Feedback. It is not indicative of everyone wanting the same thing.

While you aren't wrong about other topics being brought up, I think it's safe to say that the primary discussion in this thread from top to bottom has been with regard to overland challenge. I know that you know this because I have seen you propose alternative topics with zero interaction as the overland challenge discussion continues on. If you skim through the hundreds of pages of this thread, I'm sure you will come to the same conclusion.

Arrodisia wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Arrodisia wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
From the website:
We’ll also share more details in the following months on the topics we’re only able to cover briefly in the show, such as the introduction of optional Overland Difficulty modes that offer greater challenges and rewards.
. . . keep bringing us your questions, thoughts, and ideas. We’re looking forward to hearing from you.
My Thoughts:
This is very sad information for me and my gaming friends. Continuous catering to end-game players while ignoring the needs and desires for the new players and repeating players*, will end badly for everyone save those that speed-run to end game then stand about complaining that nothing is challenging enough.

ESO is becoming top-heavy. You gave them group-only dungeons, increased-difficulty group-only dungeons, trials, Special overland content in Craglorn, Infinite Archive, alliance PvP, and battlegrounds PvP. They want more. They, the cappers, want the entire game handed over to them and you are playing to do just that even if it sacrifices the new and repeat players. So sad to see this happen to another MMO.

Maybe you should add another level of payment to the subs to cover the extra benefits and game content that those capped-out group players are demanding. It feels like my monthly fee is subsidizing advancement for content that I do not want or will not use. Why should I have to pay monthly for content that is directed at a game demography that I am not a part of? Seriously, if this increased difficulty happens in the game, I will likely drop my sub and just play free until the game crashes.

You give them better gear, better pots, and better enchantments, but they want more. They will always want more because every time you give them more difficult content, you also give them better gear and resources that will make that difficult content easier. Why you cannot see how your solution perpetuates the problem, I do not know. (It is like the 'guy' that keeps increasing his credit card limit to pay off his debts.)

* Repeating players are those that like to mix up their playing with new combinations of skills, classes, and character types. They are advanced players but do not have high level characters because they keep starting fresh ones which allows them to repeat content with renewed circumstances.

Yes. Difficulty options need to be added for all that content in order to allow more players to engage with it.

The players demanding the toggle will not play overland any more than they do now. They will play until the newness wears off, then they will be back to demanding better gear and harder content elsewhere. They've been doing it since before One Tamriel. All players can already engage with overland content.

The type of player that demands overland difficulty is the same type that runs from entrance to final boss in dungeons without taking in the story or exploring the environment. If TOS forced players to pick up a token by defeating minor bosses and targets in the dungeon before they can activate the final boss, there might be less complaining about simple overland because they would have their questing challenge right there.

In my opinion, they don't want a challenge at all. They want control. If the players wanted a challenge, they could have it easy enough. They could trade in their v-dungeon gear and pots and use simple overland gear. They won't because they don't want a challenge, they want control.

Absolutely this. I see this constantly in this MMO and others. That small less than 5% clique crowd attempting to control the entire content release for the majority. They suggest bunches of bad balancing changes, awful mechanics for bosses, behave in self entitled, arrogant, rude, impatient and even toxic manner on the servers. Besides creating fake drama around every corner, that type of crowd turns good games into something that's no longer fun, because these games have become their entire life.

They jump from guild to guild and game to game wherever they can convince devs to ramp up difficulty and troll other players. So they can sell runs for what ends up being real money in the end. They aren't interested in the health and fun of the game. They aren't interested in the losses a company takes as a long as they make money. Then the expac flops and droves of players leave the servers barren. We've already seen this bit of history repeat itself.

Last time players cried for nerfs to "wink wink" feel a challenge. Those same "high end" players who wanted this left the game. They didn't even wait. They straight up left on the 1st few days of release. The content became harder for everyone because of that pack of complainers and oh. What a surprise! They didn't want to embarrass themselves having to prog it again with a chance of failure looming nearby. That amount of "big talk"ego says it all. I'll stop here.

Any difficulty changes should be optional. Everyone pays to play this game. So everyone should be able to enjoy it. Have a good day playing.

It's completely untrue, and the only reason I believe you feel this way is because it's not something you want. The assessment that the type of person who wants this is the same as the person who would speedrun the content is totally fallacious because obviously, if someone wants a challenge then they're not going to be speedrunning the content. I have waited years to play much of the overland content in this game because the bits that I have played are completely underwhelming, precisely because they are too easy. I wish more people would think a little more deeply about this. Just because you like things the way they are, it's doesn't mean they're a waste of time to develop.

A significant portion of players I have personally interacted with have left the game because of this issue, and there is a reason that this very thread is the largest on the forum. I urge you to gain perspective beyond the bounds of your own interests.

This thread being long is a bad crutch to stand on. It's only long because it's been open a long time and the same peeps bump each other and attack anyone who doesn't 100% agree with everything they want. Even to the point that they ignore facts which were laid before them by the players and devs themselves.

They originally got tired of moving multiple threads about the same exact subject and created by the same group of people on repeat. As soon as someone disagreed which would be almost immediately they'd go ape and open another new thread about it, instead of properly debating the pros and cons. So the devs fused it together, minus some of the dumpster fires and left it open.

I'm a vet player too. I have experienced pretty much every nook and cranny of this game with tons of friendly players regularly over the years and in every part of this content. My previous statements are as true as the sun rises and sets and others have mentioned the same things multiple times. Your response seems emotional, and rationalised rather than being based on facts and logical. It's a game. Life is the real challenge. Why even presume to know what I want, think or feel ? You don't know me. I'm talking facts and you're talking feelings. Maybe some fresh air should be on that priority list you want this suggestion to be fast tracked on.

You literally wrote my statement isn't true. Yet other players and even the devs commented on this topic over the last few years. I do see this almost daily while playing. You're assuming way too much, mixing things together and coming up empty here when you go this route. BTW, I wasn't the person who even discussed speed runs. Your statement seems more like some kind of passive aggressive toxicity rather than writing what could've been an insightful post about the topic you are into. You're coming at the wrong one, because I won't participate in a dumpster fire.

It is what it is and you choose not to accept the truth. That's on you. I specifically said I'm not for or against as long as it's an optional toggle, way earlier in the thread. Plus, I said a toggle is ok as long as it doesn't impact expansion and balancing deliveries and isn't riddled with tech problems.

Ngl, I wouldn't like to see dev resources wasted on anything, which won't be used more than 1-4 weeks by the players asking for it. That doesn't mean I'm specifically against it. You clearly haven't read through this thread you claim to be so interested about. Currently players, at least in my guilds, and in my friends guilds and in my pve and pvp raid channels, want to see a new and "proper" expansion more than this. So this definitely isn't the top topic. It's a small handful group wanting this, who are bumping each other here and that's it.

Keep it real though, this kind of change is chopped liver compared to what larger amounts of new fully detailed and polished content can do for this game. Most vet players run past the trash in every zone to get to their objectives anyway. That's a fact. Beefcaking the trash isn't going to make the game more interesting and it isn't new content. It may likely make daily tasks annoying and tedious and probably even cause technical problems until it gets ironed out.

If this isn't done right, you can, basically, set your clock to the mass mob of players, who will crowd into the forums. They'll be beefing on day one when it's live, all salty about how they didn't want this and how it messed up their game while rage quitting. Within days that forum post will be just about as long as this one. So to avoid all the drama, another revert, more lost resources for nothing l said it should be optional from the start if it's done at all. I stand by that. So everyone can enjoy the game, play in peace and oh look. It seems the devs agreed with those who wanted a choice to opt in or out. It's supposedly going to be optional.

History repeats itself way more often than we like. Why would anyone want something negative to repeat again anyway? It's common sense. We'd voice our opinion on it. Plus, with the population generally dropping, it maybe should be done after a good expansion is released and balanced. So players can focus more on the positive part while they work out the kinks in the modes.

I'm interested to see how this turns out on the last PTS cycle. I hope. They can nail it without causing new performance issues. Fingers crossed.
.
It's time to run a trial with my peeps and guild members. Have fun everyone.

twisttop138 wrote: »

I'm on the belief that they will be more gold and xp, with perhaps the zone gear garbage you would've gotten but in purple quality. We're close to the reveal of this optional system. Let's see what they have cooking before we flip the table.

Sarannah wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I'm on the belief that they will be more gold and xp, with perhaps the zone gear garbage you would've gotten but in purple quality. We're close to the reveal of this optional system. Let's see what they have cooking before we flip the table.

Any better reward(s) than the normal (now) overland difficulty setting should not exist. As this will make overland feel punishing/bad to everyone who does not increase the difficulty. Even if it is only 10 gold/10 exp, players will feel like they are missing out. Which is really demotivating. Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty. Not sure if that demotivation may have a negative effect on the playerbase though, but I personally would not play a game where it feels bad to play 24/7 due to knowing I am missing out on rewards. And I am someone who loves doing overland content at a relaxing pace.

The difficulty is/was supposed to be the reward. Atleast, that is how this thread started.

PS: Purple quality gear, and the purple deconstruction materials from deconstructing those, are a veteran dungeon level reward! Handing those out in overland would be a terrible decision.

shadoza wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I'm on the belief that they will be more gold and xp, with perhaps the zone gear garbage you would've gotten but in purple quality. We're close to the reveal of this optional system. Let's see what they have cooking before we flip the table.

Any better reward(s) than the normal (now) overland difficulty setting should not exist. As this will make overland feel punishing/bad to everyone who does not increase the difficulty. Even if it is only 10 gold/10 exp, players will feel like they are missing out. Which is really demotivating. Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty. Not sure if that demotivation may have a negative effect on the playerbase though, but I personally would not play a game where it feels bad to play 24/7 due to knowing I am missing out on rewards. And I am someone who loves doing overland content at a relaxing pace.

The difficulty is/was supposed to be the reward. Atleast, that is how this thread started.

PS: Purple quality gear, and the purple deconstruction materials from deconstructing those, are a veteran dungeon level reward! Handing those out in overland would be a terrible decision.

Handing out tougher / stronger gear would perpetuate their 'not challenging enough' problem. Once they get the better gear, the overland won't fee so challenging anymore.

My question to devs: If the folks demanding the difficulty level are not disciplined enough to change their gear from dungeon to overland to create a challenge, what makes you believe they have the discipline to use a challenge toggle? If you MUST give them the toggle, then perhaps toss in a crumb for the rest of the world and toggle group dungeons and trails so they can be done with two people and a couple companions . . . or solo.

Sarannah wrote: »

Let's just agree to disagree, but I think any reward is too much. And that handing out dungeon level rewards, especially veteran dungeon level rewards, could crash both the in-game economy for those upgrade materials as well as massively lower the incentives to do grouping content(dungeons). ZOS needs to be very careful with how this feature is implemented, as it could alter the game in many unexpected negative ways. Even just feeling missing out on (small) rewards will do so.

Question: Will showing/hiding questmarkers also be part of the difficulty? Making the game more difficult than only following a questmarker.
Question: Will disabling add-ons also be part of the increased difficulty? Making the game more difficult and more about player skill than just following on-screen add-on commands on when to block/dodge/use food/where to find everything/etc. Players often forget that add-ons massively lower the game's difficulty in many ways.

PS: The above posts pushing for extra rewards are very telling on how important increased difficulty in overland really is. As it seems the rewards for increased difficulty in overland are more important than what may happen to the difficulty itself or to the state of the game when this is implemented.

Sarannah wrote: »

Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty.

shadoza wrote: »

If the folks demanding the difficulty level are not disciplined enough to change their gear from dungeon to overland to create a challenge, what makes you believe they have the discipline to use a challenge toggle?

BananaBender wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Let's just agree to disagree, but I think any reward is too much. And that handing out dungeon level rewards, especially veteran dungeon level rewards, could crash both the in-game economy for those upgrade materials as well as massively lower the incentives to do grouping content(dungeons). ZOS needs to be very careful with how this feature is implemented, as it could alter the game in many unexpected negative ways. Even just feeling missing out on (small) rewards will do so.

Question: Will showing/hiding questmarkers also be part of the difficulty? Making the game more difficult than only following a questmarker.
Question: Will disabling add-ons also be part of the increased difficulty? Making the game more difficult and more about player skill than just following on-screen add-on commands on when to block/dodge/use food/where to find everything/etc. Players often forget that add-ons massively lower the game's difficulty in many ways.

PS: The above posts pushing for extra rewards are very telling on how important increased difficulty in overland really is. As it seems the rewards for increased difficulty in overland are more important than what may happen to the difficulty itself or to the state of the game when this is implemented.

The reward in dungeons are the sets and not the purple upgrade materials. So yes, I agree that a random story boss shouldn't drop you a Turning Tide chest piece or Aegis Caller daggers, but giving purple pieces is to be expect as that is the case for all veteran content in the game so far. The price of purple materials is already extremely low and they are very accessible to all levels of players. Personally, I don't really care since I'm at a point where gold is absolutely meaningless in the game, but it would just make no sense for overland to be the only content in the game where optional difficulty increase wouldn't give you increased rewards.

Sarannah wrote: »

Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty.

Implying that only a tiny minority of players want a harder overland experience is just wild, especially when it's backed up by 0 proof or explanation.

Here is a video of a boss fight in the newest zone story. No spoilers, it's the most reused enemy in the entire game...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VVb7eHCE7kA

This is what passes as a boss fight! Addons are not what made that fight easy, experience didn't help either, my gear was all purple, 6pc light armour, stage 4 vampire so no health regen. The enemies simply just don't fight back. I played through the entire quest line without a single button press (apart from the ones forced by mechanics) and it's an absolute joke when it comes to actual gameplay. The tutorial required more button presses than most of the boss fights and that's not even an exaggeration!

shadoza wrote: »

If the folks demanding the difficulty level are not disciplined enough to change their gear from dungeon to overland to create a challenge, what makes you believe they have the discipline to use a challenge toggle?

To make the current questing/overland content a challenge, you have to ignore every combat feature the game has to offer. If you have any sets, the content is trivial, if you have any healing you wont die, don't even think about using CPs, ults are out of the question as they will melt the boss, you can go grab a coffee mid fight if you engage with subclassing or scribing etc etc. I'm 100% sure that you could beat every story quest with nothing but fists and Resolving Vigor and it will not be difficult only tedious.

shadoza wrote: »

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that.

shadoza wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Let's just agree to disagree, but I think any reward is too much. And that handing out dungeon level rewards, especially veteran dungeon level rewards, could crash both the in-game economy for those upgrade materials as well as massively lower the incentives to do grouping content(dungeons). ZOS needs to be very careful with how this feature is implemented, as it could alter the game in many unexpected negative ways. Even just feeling missing out on (small) rewards will do so.

Question: Will showing/hiding questmarkers also be part of the difficulty? Making the game more difficult than only following a questmarker.
Question: Will disabling add-ons also be part of the increased difficulty? Making the game more difficult and more about player skill than just following on-screen add-on commands on when to block/dodge/use food/where to find everything/etc. Players often forget that add-ons massively lower the game's difficulty in many ways.

PS: The above posts pushing for extra rewards are very telling on how important increased difficulty in overland really is. As it seems the rewards for increased difficulty in overland are more important than what may happen to the difficulty itself or to the state of the game when this is implemented.

The reward in dungeons are the sets and not the purple upgrade materials. So yes, I agree that a random story boss shouldn't drop you a Turning Tide chest piece or Aegis Caller daggers, but giving purple pieces is to be expect as that is the case for all veteran content in the game so far. The price of purple materials is already extremely low and they are very accessible to all levels of players. Personally, I don't really care since I'm at a point where gold is absolutely meaningless in the game, but it would just make no sense for overland to be the only content in the game where optional difficulty increase wouldn't give you increased rewards.

Sarannah wrote: »

Catering to the tiny few who want tougher overland and granting them better rewards(no matter how tiny), will make overland content feel demotivating to play for other players who do not or can't turn up the difficulty.

Implying that only a tiny minority of players want a harder overland experience is just wild, especially when it's backed up by 0 proof or explanation.

Here is a video of a boss fight in the newest zone story. No spoilers, it's the most reused enemy in the entire game...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VVb7eHCE7kA

This is what passes as a boss fight! Addons are not what made that fight easy, experience didn't help either, my gear was all purple, 6pc light armour, stage 4 vampire so no health regen. The enemies simply just don't fight back. I played through the entire quest line without a single button press (apart from the ones forced by mechanics) and it's an absolute joke when it comes to actual gameplay. The tutorial required more button presses than most of the boss fights and that's not even an exaggeration!

shadoza wrote: »

If the folks demanding the difficulty level are not disciplined enough to change their gear from dungeon to overland to create a challenge, what makes you believe they have the discipline to use a challenge toggle?

To make the current questing/overland content a challenge, you have to ignore every combat feature the game has to offer. If you have any sets, the content is trivial, if you have any healing you wont die, don't even think about using CPs, ults are out of the question as they will melt the boss, you can go grab a coffee mid fight if you engage with subclassing or scribing etc etc. I'm 100% sure that you could beat every story quest with nothing but fists and Resolving Vigor and it will not be difficult only tedious.

I am 100% sure one could not and that statement is stale.
If add-ons did not make the content easier, players wouldn't use them.
I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.
When one works in an echo-chamber, one voice sounds like a thousand. I believe it is a small percentage of players that are demanding more difficulty in overland. I stand on my statement: The folks that are demanding overland difficult have not shown the disciple to increase difficult where they can do it easier. If they did, they would use overland gear and empty their CP tray of combat assistance. They won't do it. They make excuses instead. This habit is not going to change with a new difficulty option. That feature is a waste of development time.

Logs for those who are interested
https://esologs.com/reports/a:Jj6r7BmapVgDQMcL

And a video for people who want to watch a khajiit punch for 10 minutes
https://youtube.com/watch?v=b729O3-FuM0

shadoza wrote: »

I just played a level 10 character and got rolled by the final attack of a soul reaper. The attacks were just higher than my health and recovery rates.

Sarannah wrote: »

Let's just agree to disagree, but I think any reward is too much. And that handing out dungeon level rewards, especially veteran dungeon level rewards, could crash both the in-game economy for those upgrade materials as well as massively lower the incentives to do grouping content(dungeons). ZOS needs to be very careful with how this feature is implemented, as it could alter the game in many unexpected negative ways. Even just feeling missing out on (small) rewards will do so.

Question: Will showing/hiding questmarkers also be part of the difficulty? Making the game more difficult than only following a questmarker.
Question: Will disabling add-ons also be part of the increased difficulty? Making the game more difficult and more about player skill than just following on-screen add-on commands on when to block/dodge/use food/where to find everything/etc. Players often forget that add-ons massively lower the game's difficulty in many ways.

PS: The above posts pushing for extra rewards are very telling on how important increased difficulty in overland really is. As it seems the rewards for increased difficulty in overland are more important than what may happen to the difficulty itself or to the state of the game when this is implemented.

Cooperharley wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

People wanting questing to be both immersive and to maintain their functionality does not undermine the idea that they want them to be immersive. I also don't think most people will quit the game because of hard modes work the same as every other vet difficulty in the game as well how hard modes generally work across the entire industry. Some people might get upset but that's their own emotions and has nothing to do with something that is bog standard game design.

This is the one and only game I have ever played where the idea that people should be worse off for wanting to play a higher difficulty has been suggested unironically. In every other game I have played getting more stuff for doing more stuff is a given.

I'm glad the devs decided not to punish us for wanting a more immersive story experience.

So instead, the devs decided to punish those that don't do group /guild play. They said they did not want to divide the player base, but this difficulty toggle is doing just that. Players won't quit the game because of a hard mode. Players will migrate away from the game (quit casually) because that is one more tool for the elite and nothing for the new and repeat players. Players do get tired of being second class consumers. They will move on to a title where they feel heard and related to. Those that take the stance of too bad for the little guys will need to dig a little deeper into their own pockets because the 'little guys' will be taking their money with them.
I have been there; done that so many times that I can see what is coming. I can almost gauge how hard the fall will be.

We have already decided what we are going to do if the changes do not benefit the new and repeat players. What you do is on you.

This argument doesn't sit well with me as I have many, many friends who are new to MMOs that found ESO's overland way too easy. Your opinion isn't that of the masses just like mine probably isn't. This doesn't punish anybody. This is an optional difficulty increase for those that want it.

The game is horizontal progression and has an unbelieveable amount of content for new and repeat players. I just don't see logically where you're drawing these conclusions. "Oh gosh, they're adding a hard mode for those that want it. They hate new players." That doesn't make sense at all? If they were increasing difficulty across the board on a mandatory level, I'd agree 100%.