Maintenance for the week of January 5:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
-
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭When it comes to the German translation of the letter, I found it a little weird. Generally, there's some strange inaccuracies with the translations which made me wonder. Did they change the localisation studio? Their personnel? Did they use some automatic translation software this time? It just felt like something was a bit different than usually and sometimes the meaning of words was a bit off, by a nuance. This is even stranger considering that the translation of the New Life festival quests is awesome and on par with the base game dialogues, so I'm wondering why East Solstice doesn't have the same quality.
Well, that's unfortunate, particularly if it changes the intended meaning of the dialogue. Obviously the translations aren't something I ever come across; I just get annoyed by typos and misspellings.Onto the mine! I came across a soul shriven chef--I couldn't talk to them, but was able to, I don't know, season a meal on the table? The object said "pour" but the animation looked like I was sprinkling seasoning over something. Whatever I did, it made the chef pretty happy.
Oh, that's from a zone achievement. And I missed this character - already found all others. Generally it's a nice achievement, a very interesting idea, good interactions, and the locations all looked very interesting (well, all that I've seen so far). Nice design, really.
There's another zone achievement with soulbound weapons, although I've only found one of them so far. Makes me wonder if there'll be a bit lore on that, since for now, there wasn't much, just those items you need to find, but with no details on them.
I did eventually find all of the soul shriven--that was some cool zone ambiance. Also made me wonder what/who else might have inadvertently ended up on Nirn due to this reverse planemeld.
For the soulbound weapons, I don't think it's a spoiler to say there will be a book to read at the end. I thought that one was really well done, too.Anyway, in the mine I found the note written by someone from "the court of Mannimarco." Well! Someone has lofty ideas of his station! The court of Mannimarco indeed.
That caught my attention too.It was interesting to see how much they go for the Worm King / nobility aspect this time. And of course they need their own furnishings then. I just wonder where it's suddenly coming from? The title "Worm King" isn't new after all, but it was nothing they ever made of much, not in the base game, not in later TES games. Now, I do like the idea of a necromantic court, and it would fit a Corelanya revivalist in a way (if they had made such a story out of it), but it's really strange it just comes up now while it was never a topic before, no? Honestly made me wonder whether it's a continuity error about the Worm Cult, just like, well, newer Jakarn isn't the same thing as older Jakarn.
Considering the lead up,the actual 'court of Mannimarco' wasn't anything that interesting. But maybe it was a court of the mind rather than a physical place with all the trappings.They clearly have creepy plans for Vanus--magic battery once again (sequel as repeat).
But this time......in direct interaction with Mannimarco. And to raise the dead. Oh, what a psychologically interesting situation this could have been, to have Vanny being forced to partake in a necromantic ritual against his will!
Very true, andall told, I was disappointed in the scene where we rescue Vanny from Mannimarco. I had hoped for more back and forth between them, or something. And, yes, they could have made much more of the intent behind using the Great Mage for such a purpose, given how firmly against necromancy he is.
Well, he does, technically.
We see Jeetra telling Darien he's worthless and then we talk to Darien. As someone who likes Darien, I have been enjoying his character moments in this story. I think it's pretty well done and I have found the player response options to be pretty well balanced if you like Darien. Once again, though, if you don't like him, or just don't care that he's having doubts about himself, there's no good response for you. I really think they could have added one more response option each time that was truly neutral/disinterested or even a bit brusque.
Exactly. That was my issue with that final dialogue of that quest, too. My character wasn't concerned, he didn't even care much, but there was just no fitting dialogue option for him. Why have a "neutral", a "friendly" and a "flirty" option if they basically all just mean the same, and nothing beyond that?
Definitely a limitation of the system so far. Hopefully they keep refining it/adding to it so that it gets closer to the single rpg aspect of giving us more control of what our character says/thinks/feels. I don't know what kind of limitations they are up against when it comes to this system, or how much more complex adding one more character response option would make the branching dialogue system. Our character's lines aren't voiced, but if the npc is going to react to each type of response, that could potentially lead to a lot more lines of dialogue that need to be recorded.Now, when it comes to the zone, random encounters, etc...I've come across the khajiit dealing with the elusive illusionist three times now (and solved her little illusion riddles each time).
I come across the three stages of this encounter all the time, and not always in the correct order. Actually I got the last one first which didn't make much sense. It's also strange this one appears ad nauseam and others that I find more interesting don't. I got the last encounter right, but when it comes to the first two riddles, I really found no way to solve them. Made me wonder whether it's a translation issue (they also got the gender of one of the daedra wrong, but that was not a hint, it turned out, but just a translation mistake), as there's really no hint that makes any sense.
I don't think I got them in order (I don't really know what the order is meant to be) but I haven't seen them repeat at all. If I remember correctly for the multiple choice options, there's always one of the npcs that says something a little off, and that's the clue. It's possible the hint just doesn't translate very well. All in all, I found them a fun little diversion and I'm glad I haven't run into them again, because that kind of repetition weakens the impact for me. I see the mage caught in a bubble in the water quite frequently, to the point where I now think, "Dude, this is all on you," and I don't even bother trying to help him.I inserted myself into an argument between a bard and a band of pirates--I told him I'd never heard of him and he replied that he'd never heard of me, which made me laugh.
There's no choice to be made there in dialogue, is there? To solve the situation somehow? It did feel a bit random to me.
No, and at first that took me off guard--I'm so used to walking up to strangers and solving their disputes. But I actually like this one better because there's nothing to solve--it's just me being super nosy and butting in where I have no place. Plus, I really like the Two-Shields npc's reaction when I ask him where his other shield is.I crossed a bridge and suddenly the entire skybox and landscape changed and I actually said to myself, "What's going on? Am I dead?" When I got to the other side of the bridge, a ghost boat appeared and sailed under the bridge. That was pretty neat.
That was a nice one. When I saw it the first time on PTS, I actually thought the skybox was bugged. It also seems to be easy to miss as it takes a whole while for it to appear, and some people have already left the location again before that happens. So it's a pity it only occurs once, so people who miss it the first time will not have the chance to see it again. I also wished it had a bit of background lore somehow, but I think there's nothing on it.
I think the background lore is in the achievement description. It's unfortunate if people don't realize there's something there to see and miss out on it, but I do like the utter surprise and uniqueness of it.When it comes to random encounters, there's another few I've come across:
- A lootable chest with a Maormer ghost attacking (basically like the group of bandits random encounter from the base game).
- An alchemist testing a potion on a group of stranglers.
- Two argonians of different tribes discussing their cultural differences. That's a nice one.
Generally, I usually come across the same few, though.
I've seen the first two of those once each, and the argonians in several places. I enjoyed chatting with the argonians. But I did run across Vyktor Varien quite often, and I enjoyed my conversations with him--though he doesn't seem to remember me in between them. Perhaps he's just that self-absorbed.I've done a couple more side quests, too, but only one I'll mention right now. It was the one called "Dubious Intentions."
While I like that we get different choices there, the whole thing felt too obvious somehow. I mean, even the quest name is obvious. The behavior within the dialogues also felt unnatural, clichéd - to make absolutely clear "This person is hiding something!!!" - I'd have prefered something more subtle. The end was also a bit strange - even if you get him to confess, you just let him stand there in the end, relying on his promise he'll go to town to confess to the guards alone, later... Why would one trust him after the things that happened?
Well, in my playthrough of it, there was no notion of him turning himself in. Basically, he didn't care that I found out the truth, he wasn't remorseful, and he was annoyed with me for not bringing him back any lizard-bear scales. He mostly just griped about how much harder his life was going to be, and he wasn't at all concerned that I might report him to the authorities.
I agree it was all quite obvious from the get-go, and I also would prefer a little more subtlety, but what I chiefly liked about it was the options we had on how to play out the quest. I want more of that type of mechanic in quests.Part 2! Now, the side quests...
"To Know the Void":While I personally have no problem with it, I think helping a Dark Brotherhood member might be a problem for some player characters? I also think it's too obvious who he is, even if he doesn't state it directly in dialogue (unless you're also a Dark Brotherhood member and have that extra dialogue option) - his diary directly next to him doesn't make a big secret out of it and everybody can just read it.
The dialogue also had a few weird questions we could not avoid asking; and while of course I appreciate that we could discuss the stone tablets at the end of the quest, I would have hoped for something deeper than what we got. A culture having a more positive interpretation of death isn't such a unique or alien thing, so it felt a bit weird to me that it was portrayed as such an astonishing lesson there.
The quest itself was a simple fetch quest, but I don't mind also having such quests in the mix, as long as there are also a few more complex ones. The delve was a little bland, no lorebooks, not many interesting things to see. It was also a bit bugged; the lorebook at the quest npc wasn't glowing, and all enemy names in the delve were untranslated in the German version.
Generally I think it was an okay quest, though.
You make some good points. I'll have to see how it playswith my non DB characters. I hope the dialogue doesn't give away any hint of it, so as to make it more plausible that they'd help. As for the lorebook--well, that's his personal journal, so if our characters read it, and are horrified to find out they helped a member of the Dark Brotherhood, maybe they shouldn't have been so nosy! As to the delve itself, I think I mentioned that I found all three delves had a similar empty feeling--so much space, so well-designed, and yet essentially hollow. And if I didn't mention it before, I meant to!College of Sea and Sword:
Location-wise, I loved this one! So much to explore, many different assets/furnishings to look at, lots of containers to loot, too. The quest itself was okay. What I disliked was the lore contradiction - the college just shouldn't be there. Other lore sources told us that no one from the West had set a foot on East Solstice in the past 40 years, after all!
Yeah, it is odd that it's there, and was never mentioned before by anyone on Western Solstice."Dismantling the Worm":I, personally, didn't really find the cultist's reasoning believable. I mean, fine, her village didn't approve of her interest in magic, but why join the Worm Cult of all things? Why not the Mages Guild, for example? Guild mages should also be easier to find than Worm Cultists... Also she claimed some weird thing like the Cult convinced her by telling her necromancy was "an art of make something greater of souls" of something like that... Why would a commoner believe that? If you told that some random person, wouldn't they be rather disconcerted instead of finding it plausible and agreeing to join? I also didn't like that "necromancy is always harmful" dialogue part in the end. Or that we needed to ask what the Order of the Black Worm is to be able to progress the dialogue. Or that asking us to decide over her fate, or all her worries about what her family might think - she's an adult, after all?! Didn't come across as mature to me at all. Anyway, I told her to just leave.
The location itself - visually beautiful, though sadly every single door of the whole village was locked. No lore either. This is really my main point of criticism for the whole chapter - there's a lack of lore. Quest design itself was okay.
Sometimes I wonder if the average Tamriel/Nirn denizen is rather clueless about the big events going on that we get involved in. I mean, in the base game, with dark anchors dropping in all the zones, and the Worm Cult everywhere, I'd think just about everyone would know who the cult is, what they're up to, and so forth. Yet this magewas really shocked by finding out they were evil. Of course, if that's the caliber of mind they typically recruit, no wonder they're so easy to defeat.Calindvale Gardens:
Not much to say here, indeed. The location was beautiful - as always - , it was also an interesting idea. Lots of space though, with not much to see. I found the boss designs visually interesting, too (I also managed to solo the group boss, it took quite a while, though). The quest itself was okay, but not too creative. Ending was good, I guess, for people who cared about these characters - now they're finally free. I could comment on having met them before, by the way.
I wonder why I wasn't able to. I mean, even if one chooses to side with the lamias in that Coldharbour quest, one still has to first deal with the Shadow Walkers and what's her name. It would have been cool if they were kind of hostile to people who had chosen to side with the lamias, actually. Honestly, I can't recall which side my main character chose--it was so long ago, and I've done that quest on multiple characters, and sometimes I choose one side, and sometimes the other.The dead mage:Yes, that one dialogue option to flirt with the widow was rather silly. Do you remember that news article where they stated they offer dialogue options about things people would not dare to say in real life? Again, I can only say I'd rather see them focus on serious roleplay options instead of options that only seem to serve some shock value. The whole quest seemed to have some weird "funny" undertone that I personally didn't find funny at all. It also had some text or translation mistake/contradiction: First that mage told us he wanted to take a restore health potion, and about 2 lines later he told you he didn't have magicka left, which sounds more like it was a restore magicka potion. Which made me wonder whether he's supposed to be lying, but context-wise, this doesn't make much sense, so I think it's rather a continuity mistake.The potion confusion is present in the English version, too, so I wonder if it's just a case of him being that absent-minded. As for the shock value component of the flirt response--I wonder if they wanted to give an option to players who want to role-play someone who has no social filters (for lack of a better term). Someone who would say something just to get a reaction, or maybe someone who can't help but flirt in all situations. I can appreciate them trying out all kinds of different responses to suit all kind of different players--and since it was just one option out of three (I think it was three) it's easy enough for me to not use it and role-play my character true to himself. But if it really is just 'hey, this would be shocking, let's put this in!' I'd also rather they put more thought into the responses."Roots in Stone":
This one was horribly bugged on PTS (so much that I could never finish it, after several attempts) and I was actually astonished it worked without any errors on Live - for me, at least. On PTS I got stuck at 3 different dialogue parts - the npc just became uninteractable. And the probably worst (and strangest) bug I came across was......when the Voskrona guardians at the end suddenly attacked me instead of the enemy, for unknown reasons. Which ruined the whole quest right at the end. And made me not try it again. I actually had feared that we'd see the same disaster on Live now, especially since several other bugs from PTS just carried over. But anyway...
It's, again, a very nice location, both inside the ruin as well as outside, but, yes, everything's locked and you can barely talk to anyone. That was disappointing. Locations really just feel like movie backdrops now. Well, actually, I think I found exactly one npc who was not directly quest-related who had some dialogue, and that was dialogue she should rather not have (yet), as she congratulated me on the victory before I had even started the quest...
Generally, it was a good story at an interesting location (of course you had to ignore the bookshelves inside the ruin - I really wish they'd seperate ancient shelves from the normal ones, so the Ayleid, Dwemer and whatnot ones in ruins wouldn't display books by Telenger! Or maybe they could just deactivate the ancient ones, as that would probably be the easiest solution technically).
Some comments were wrong again when you didn't do that pendulum task in the intended order.
The flirting between the two Argonians - they are amusing characters, but I'm not sure I found that realistic. It happened way too fast - they didn't know each other first, and after just a few minutes they're much too close already.
When it comes to the elder: Yes, Argonian player characters do understand what he says in the end. According to UESP, the translation is: "The great change draws closer". Might that be a hint on next year (they often hid some hint on the upcoming story, after all)? If so, is it fair to only provide it to players who play a specific race? I mean, not that it tells us much this time.
I'm glad those PTS bugs got worked out. As it was, this was the quest that had the most bugs for me (two, I think it was).A movie set/back drop is an excellent description for how some of the places feel. I really wish they would go back to making villages/towns more explorable. I can understand from a story perspective--the villagers have fled/gone into hiding to avoid the cult, and so locked up their homes--but even the regular towns are so limited these days.
The conversations between the two Argonians didn't seem outright flirtatious to me--I mean, yes, there were some teasing remarks that bordered on flirting, but overall I think it was just them realizing they aren't so different and actually do have something to learn from one another. I didn't find it too out of place, but it's possible I just didn't notice the flirtatious tones.
I think it's an interesting choice to have a line of dialogue that a character cannot understand if they aren't Argonian. Whether it's a hint of something more or not, I think it adds to the atmosphere of the world and makes the npcs seem more like their own persons with their own histories. As far as it being fair to only provide hints on future content to players who play a specific race: I don't have a problem with that. The way information gets shared these days, everyone who really wanted to know what was said can find it out. I didn't look it up on UESP--that is, I hadn't looked it up yet; I probably would have eventually, but for now I didn't mind not knowing. (I don't mind either that you told me, since I don't have any Argonian characters to take through the quest, so I would have had to look it up at some point.) I mean, I was never in that special club that got mailed hints or whatever for upcoming content, yet eventually I got to see what the special people got once they deigned to share it with us. At least this type of hint (if it is a hint) is in-game, and not reliant on social media. But basically I'm used to not seeing the future content hints, so this wouldn't have been any different for me.
I do have a few more thoughts to share about my overall impression of the story--things that have occurred to me since I first posted about it--but I'll wait until you've had a chance to share your impressions.
0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, to continue (and finish) my notes on the East Solstice side quests...
"Blood on the Water":That was one I enjoyed. Although the start was a little irksome - realizing that the map of the cave system went missing again! It had been reported on PTS and got fixed there, but for unknown reasons, it was bugged again on Live. And that's not the only situation where a bug that was already fixed on PTS showed up again on Live, but I think I already mentioned that yesterday. Makes me wonder what happened there, probably some kind of mix-up?!
When it comes to the quest itself, I liked that it was a longer quest and most of all the variety of tasks. The running back and forth through the same location was a bit annoying (especially without a map...), I think I would have liked it better if the quest would have somehow progressed over several different locations. Also, I had expected something more akin to that base game naval battle from the Dominion main questline and not just fighting aboard a halted ship. Still, in total, the different tasks were fun.
When it comes to dialogues: Why were we called "pirate" all the time? At least in the German translation, there was never any line about joining their crew (not even temporarily).
I liked that you could talk to everyone at the end and that they all refer to events from earlier stories. On the other hand, it does feel a little artificial, no? Especially with that one Alfiq who was involved in events of 3 or 4 different chapters. It's nostalgia bonus, sure, but doesn't it make the world feel small (apart from it not being very realistic) if a single person is somehow involved in all these stories taking place across the whole continent?
"Lost Among the Ashes":Bluntly said, I totally hated this one on PTS. The more astonished was I when I noticed that some details had changed on Live, although I'm really not sure if it's an actual change based on criticism posted during the PTS phase, or a matter of dialogue options (I couldn't completely remember whether I choose the same ones this time - especially since "neutral" and "friendly" are often so similar!), or whether it's somehow a matter of translation (on PTS, everything is in English, so now on Live was the first time I've seen all German dialogues, lorebooks and such). I almost think some details were changed later, since during the quest there are still lots of hints that fit the earlier concept I've seen on PTS.
What was this earlier concept and what did I hate about it? There's still this build-up now about Sirilonwe getting angrier and angrier because she feels wronged by her partner (I personally found those dialogues super annoying! Her problems aren't mine, and also, she could just behave like a normal mature adult and talk with her partner, or just end the cooperation like a normal person if she's not content with it? They're both supposed to be scholars, but the way they acted was... well, it didn't really reflect that but felt more like a silly cliché. And it even felt like Sirilonwe was just power-hungry and therefore eager to get rid of her partner, instead of being an actual victim - what she said about him and what we actually got to see within those short conversations with him just didn't match up; something really felt off for me - this made the end even worse because it felt like he was the victim of the situation, and he becomes the victim a final time at the end, and we can't say anything about that). Mihinassi (Yes, I also wondered where those grapes and cheese were coming from!) also mentions at the beginning that there's some kind of conflict going on.
Anyway, on PTS this situation would basically lead Sirilonwe killing all vampires in a fit of rage - even if you've chosen to spare them in dialogue - , usually coming up with some excuse why she had to kill them (despite of being an expert on different strains of vampirism and their cure, as she states at the start of the quest). The random murder of vampires you just treated in a friendly, lenient way felt like it was supposed to be a running gag, and I really disliked that. Murder as a joke is a concept I find of really bad taste, but not only that, I also had the feeling it completely took away the player's agency. The way it played on PTS for me was really that I always chose to spare the vampires, just to see that a second later Sirilonwe incinerates them with a spell, followed by some excuse or "funny" comment. It was frustrating! Even the ending of the whole story was like that (and made me never want to play this quest again, actually).
Now, she still kills her partner and some of the vampires during the quest in the current version. But at least it's hinted on them attacking or posing a real threat now, instead of the PTS version where it looked more like she was just angry and her arguing was always something like "They could have become a threat one day!" I'm still not content with the end, because I think the player should have gotten a real choice to decide over that infected partner's fate. Doesn't matter that letting that vampire go might cause trouble for the common people of Tamriel - the player character should still have this choice. And it wouldn't be the first time we could make a harmful choice; there were several situations in the base game where we could choose to make the "bad" decision. I just really dislike having agency taken away from me where it's not absolutely necessary for the plot, and especially frustrating to me are fake choices where we can make some decision in dialogue but then the opposite happens anyway.
Location design was impressive, as usual. The puzzles were made easier on Live. Originally, there were no yelled comments about which seals to use (you just had to go by the lorebook), and if you made a mistake, it did reset. Now it doesn't reset anymore but you can just try the next thing, one by one, until everything is correct. Also, Sirilonwe yells at you what to do, in such detail that it's barely a puzzle anymore. As someone who enjoys doing them on my own, I do find that annoying. Help should remain optional, by choosing to ask a character through dialogue.
"Choice and Consequence":Maybe you already guessed, but this was my favorite of all East Solstice side quests. The different options and different endings - if more quests were like this, there was nothing to complain about! I tested this several times on PTS just to see the outcome of different decisions. It was really fun. I also appreciate that you can actually make an evil decision here, and also that you can spare that one cultist despite having been given different orders (only if you have the right dialogue option, though - if you have not finished base game content before, it's missing and the cultist can't be saved; actually I'm not entirely content with this, as I think such a big moral decision should not depend on having or not having finished other content before, but this roleplay option should always be available for every character) - finally it feels like our character can make actual decisions instead of just following whatever orders we got. I'd actually loved if the ability to choose a side would have been even more fleshed out. Honestly - why couldn't we just decide to turn Cariel in? Could have ended with her being able to flee, fine with me, but the option itself would have been appreciated.
And yes, the base premise of the quest seemed a little random. Well, it still feels a little random somehow (and I guess the only reason for Naemon's return was nostalgia, as there's no real background lore on it and it also doesn't really lead to anything else in the story, as a whole - I'm also not sure whether it can lead to anything as people will have made different decisions about his fate at the end of the quest; I let him live, of course). But I can accept it, I guess, as the quest itself was fun to play at least. Though it does lead to a lot of questions, sure. It just seems strange how someone could, by whatever means, just bring Naemon back while resurrecting Mannimarco was presented to us as a super complicated almost impossible thing?! I don't know how this makes any sense. Then again, do we even know if this is the real Naemon? Though I believe his slight character change (He was never that evil/cruel in base game or do I remember him wrong?) is more a continuity problem than a real hint on some obscure background story we've not seen or heard of yet. What's a Shackle, by the way?
Sneaking was fun, but there was so much space around the camp which made it easy. That beginning where we're supposed to throw a stone for distraction or something like that didn't make much sense in my case as there were no people around anywhere (probably another player had just killed them and they hadn't respawned yet). There was no real greeting either, or at least the dialogue felt like the beginning was missing somehow. Ah, who knows.
The disguise - yes, that was fun. I tried to remain consistent, though I don't get why they just don't deactivate the other one as soon as you've put on one of them? Would easily solve the continuity problem. And while we're at it: I dislike that you can't get the disguises anymore after the quest! You don't get access to the boxes anymore (Really makes me wonder why?!). This really annoyed me as I wanted to collect both disguises just for costume use. Yes, I know old disguises were officially made costumes with some update, but it doesn't happen automatically for the new ones. Well, looks like I have to collect them on a different character later (collect them and move them into the bank immediately). Couldn't do it yet as I don't have another character in East Solstice right now, and to get one to the other side, I either need to do Solstice main quest part 6 or teleport to someone else, but it was in the middle of the night, so there was no one else around, of course.
Oh, and I finally found the First Dialogue between Mannimarco and Vanny in that fortress! Interesting the Worm Cult keeps it there
That soup quest:
I think I didn't comment on that the last time. It's a nice little quest. Rather short. The atmosphere is fine, though. I think they could have added some animation that makes us actually share the soup with Hecicla, since it's only refered to in dialogue, but it doesn't "actually" happen. I mean, eating animations (also one sitting down and eating soup...) do already exist in the game anyway.
And... I think you actually missed two side quests. Or you forgot to list them. The titles are, according to UESP:
- An Ambition Fulfilled (that one is really fun!)
- Death Hound's Devotion (this one felt rather... well, not very meaningful)
You probably want to play them first before I write about them? The Death Hound quest can be picked up near Ashbound Hall and the other quest starts near that small pond South of the first wayshrine we get on East Solstice, in front of Gristmung Hold (or wait, I guess it's easier just to cross the Wall from Warm-Stone Village, it's immediately East of that location).
And that's it. It's only 13 side quests (at least that's all I found, and UESP also doesn't list more), and 4 of them are extremely short, another 4 are fetch quests,... Compared to what we got in Morrowind or Summerset, it's sadly really not much.
Of course, there are also a few dailies - I haven't done most of them yet. Somehow I usually get the old ones from the quest givers, which I find annoying. Boss quests also don't work well as there are rarely any people around and soloing takes too long. Now, an event would help to get the zone more populated, but I don't think we'll see any Solstice event again soon...
More later, or tomorrow. And yes, I still remember which of your posts I've not replied to yet
Ah, yes, this is one aspect that does annoy me somehow in East Solstice:
So many books one can't interact with everywhere!
When it comes to the main quest - not finished yet, but we're close!
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭And... I think you actually missed two side quests. Or you forgot to list them. The titles are, according to UESP:
- An Ambition Fulfilled (that one is really fun!)
- Death Hound's Devotion (this one felt rather... well, not very meaningful)
You probably want to play them first before I write about them? The Death Hound quest can be picked up near Ashbound Hall and the other quest starts near that small pond South of the first wayshrine we get on East Solstice, in front of Gristmung Hold (or wait, I guess it's easier just to cross the Wall from Warm-Stone Village, it's immediately East of that location).
And that's it. It's only 13 side quests (at least that's all I found, and UESP also doesn't list more), and 4 of them are extremely short, another 4 are fetch quests,... Compared to what we got in Morrowind or Summerset, it's sadly really not much.
I totally missed those! And the funny thing (well, I find it amusing anyway) is that you had told me some of the quests were hard to come across, so I was doing my best to crawl all over the map and look out for them. Well! Looks like I wasn't as thorough as I thought I was. Guess I have a project for the next couple days (not sure when I'll have time to do them).Of course, there are also a few dailies - I haven't done most of them yet. Somehow I usually get the old ones from the quest givers, which I find annoying. Boss quests also don't work well as there are rarely any people around and soloing takes too long. Now, an event would help to get the zone more populated, but I don't think we'll see any Solstice event again soon...
I haven't bothered with the dailies since eastern opened up. I barely bothered with them in western--took them all once each just to find out if there was more lore--but I haven't gotten around to doing that for the eastern ones.Ah, yes, this is one aspect that does annoy me somehow in East Solstice:
So many books one can't interact with everywhere!
I was also noticing all the book-like objects that aren't books. I don't remember there being so many in previous areas, but memory being what it is, I can't say if that's actually the case. At any rate, I kept walking up to tables with books on them, expecting something to read, and nothing.When it comes to the main quest - not finished yet, but we're close!
Taking your usual casual strolling tour with wine, I see! 1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not finished the main quest yet, but I thought I'd reply to the other parts of your messages first.Well, that's unfortunate, particularly if it changes the intended meaning of the dialogue. Obviously the translations aren't something I ever come across; I just get annoyed by typos and misspellings.
There's masses of typos this time, also in the German translation. It's really strange, isn't it? Never saw that in earlier chapters, well, not even last year. Many mistakes also seem to be cases where they made a mistake while copying text, so the first letter of a sentence is missing or some name is accidentally inserted into the text twice in a row.
But strangest are probably mistakes in meaning that actually should not have happened to a native German speaker (or at least not one you'd expect to work in a field where language matters a lot). There's this letter that starts with "Hail Mannimarco who's residing within his unworthy servant Wormblood!" or whatever it is in the English version (I can't remember exactly from PTS). The German word they used in the translation might at first glance look like it means "being inside a thing". But actually it only has one specific meaning: "being innate", as being a natural born part of something. And clearly not physical, but immaterial, as an idea, concept or aspect. So this usage in that context is incorrect. Mannimarco is not a naturally inborn part of Wormblood, after all. And there's several mistakes like that.I did eventually find all of the soul shriven--that was some cool zone ambiance. Also made me wonder what/who else might have inadvertently ended up on Nirn due to this reverse planemeld.
Who knows who will show up in upcoming stories. I'm also curious whether the character I let go at the end of the Aldwilne Citadel quest will show up again. I'd hope so but I'm sadly not sure about that as players could make different choices there. I'm also wondering whether the choice made there will ever be mentioned in another story, as at least the one I made could be considered rather scandalous And there's one witness who knows about that, after all.For the soulbound weapons, I don't think it's a spoiler to say there will be a book to read at the end. I thought that one was really well done, too.
How does the book show up? Is there a quest related to that? Or does it just spawn at the last location (not sure if that's technically possible)?the actual 'court of Mannimarco' wasn't anything that interesting.
Yes, sadly! I wish they had made more of that since they brought that topic up at all. I'd also enjoyed......actually taking a look inside all those buildings at Mor Naril instead of mostly just running through those courtyards. I mean, it did look like a palace in a way, one one could conveniently live in, with all those windows. Looked quite nice, actually.I was disappointed in the scene where we rescue Vanny from Mannimarco. I had hoped for more back and forth between them, or something. And, yes, they could have made much more of the intent behind using the Great Mage for such a purpose, given how firmly against necromancy he is.
I'll write more about that later, in detail, but yes, it's such a pity. They could have made such a dramatic and psychologically interesting situation of that. I'd actually hoped to see......Mannimarco forcing Vanny to actively and directly partake in necromancy. Not entirely sure how he could force him, but surely that would have been intense. Even worse if Mannimarco had commented on it afterwards, something along the lines of "See, it's not that difficult". Not that I want to hurt Vanny emotionally, but it would have been much more interesting than what we actually got - which felt strangely meaningless and not that emotional at all. Well, as I said - more later.Well, he does, technically.
But not in a meaningful wayDefinitely a limitation of the system so far. Hopefully they keep refining it/adding to it so that it gets closer to the single rpg aspect of giving us more control of what our character says/thinks/feels. I don't know what kind of limitations they are up against when it comes to this system, or how much more complex adding one more character response option would make the branching dialogue system. Our character's lines aren't voiced, but if the npc is going to react to each type of response, that could potentially lead to a lot more lines of dialogue that need to be recorded.
I understand that the number of options they can give might be limited because the more options, the more different outcomes need to be written and the more voice lines need to be recorded. But if the number of options is limited, I'd rather see them write them in a meaningful, interesting way, than "wasting" the few options they can include for silly jokes, completely contextless random flirting, or crass lines that only serve some shock value.I don't think I got them in order (I don't really know what the order is meant to be) but I haven't seen them repeat at all.
I think the one where the Khajiit gets "zombified" by an illusion spell is supposed to be the last one.I'm glad I haven't run into them again, because that kind of repetition weakens the impact for me. I see the mage caught in a bubble in the water quite frequently, to the point where I now think, "Dude, this is all on you," and I don't even bother trying to help him.
Yes, at some point I don't bother anymore. Unfortunately, that applies to many of the Solstice random encounters now - some seem to show up all the time. Bubble guy, Millie Reynaud, even the pirates. I'd rather see a bit more of the Argonians or perhaps the Maormer ghost as that encounter includes a chest at least I think there were more different random encounters some years ago? Back in Blackwood?I think the background lore is in the achievement description.
But it's only one short line. I would have hoped to learn more, maybe through some lore book appearing at random bookshelves in that zone. As the event itself is remarkable and well-made.Well, in my playthrough of it, there was no notion of him turning himself in. Basically, he didn't care that I found out the truth, he wasn't remorseful, and he was annoyed with me for not bringing him back any lizard-bear scales. He mostly just griped about how much harder his life was going to be, and he wasn't at all concerned that I might report him to the authorities.
Interesting. In mine, it ended with him saying, okay fine, he'll turn himself in, and it really bothered me a bit that we could only accept that and leave. While it really didn't seem like there was actual remorse, and we actually had no reason to believe him he would not just run off as soon as we turn our back on him.I hope the dialogue doesn't give away any hint of it, so as to make it more plausible that they'd help. As for the lorebook--well, that's his personal journal, so if our characters read it, and are horrified to find out they helped a member of the Dark Brotherhood, maybe they shouldn't have been so nosy!
His diary is already there from the very beginning, even before you accept the quest, though. So as soon as you read it, you know about his background. This does cause a bit of a problem, I find, since learning this would surely be off-putting for many player characters, so why would they still choose to help him? It shouldn't be so obvious from the start.Sometimes I wonder if the average Tamriel/Nirn denizen is rather clueless about the big events going on that we get involved in. I mean, in the base game, with dark anchors dropping in all the zones, and the Worm Cult everywhere, I'd think just about everyone would know who the cult is, what they're up to, and so forth.
They should not be clueless. I mean, the whole world also seems to know about every tiny thing you did in a side quest who knows where, after all.I wonder why I wasn't able to. I mean, even if one chooses to side with the lamias in that Coldharbour quest, one still has to first deal with the Shadow Walkers and what's her name. It would have been cool if they were kind of hostile to people who had chosen to side with the lamias, actually. Honestly, I can't recall which side my main character chose--it was so long ago, and I've done that quest on multiple characters, and sometimes I choose one side, and sometimes the other.
I guess that could be the issue there - that you sided with the lamias. My main character who got that dialogue option sided with the Bosmer tribe.I'm glad those PTS bugs got worked out. As it was, this was the quest that had the most bugs for me (two, I think it was).
I'm really not sure why but that quest seems to be a nightmare bug-wise. I've never seen a quest where you could get stuck at so many different stages. But at least it seems to be possible to complete it now. Or maybe I was just lucky this time.A movie set/back drop is an excellent description for how some of the places feel. I really wish they would go back to making villages/towns more explorable. I can understand from a story perspective--the villagers have fled/gone into hiding to avoid the cult, and so locked up their homes--but even the regular towns are so limited these days.
The whole chapter feels unfinished to me. Empty locations, most npcs have no dialogue, story ideas that start promising but don't really get any depth, lack of lore, reduced number of quests, ultra-short side quests that only seem to exist to increase the quest count, faulty or missing translations, typos everywhere, lots of bugs.I think it's an interesting choice to have a line of dialogue that a character cannot understand if they aren't Argonian. Whether it's a hint of something more or not, I think it adds to the atmosphere of the world and makes the npcs seem more like their own persons with their own histories.
Then again, why would or characters not be able to understand foreign languages (except for Cyrodiilic, which everyone seems to speak anyway)?I totally missed those! And the funny thing (well, I find it amusing anyway) is that you had told me some of the quests were hard to come across, so I was doing my best to crawl all over the map and look out for them. Well! Looks like I wasn't as thorough as I thought I was. Guess I have a project for the next couple days (not sure when I'll have time to do them).
Some are really a bit tricky to find this time. Not sure whether it helps if it's generally such a low quest number. Makes it feel even less for people who don't find them.I haven't bothered with the dailies since eastern opened up. I barely bothered with them in western--took them all once each just to find out if there was more lore--but I haven't gotten around to doing that for the eastern ones.
I also only have interest in doing them once. Unfortunately, I rarely get the new ones now, but the old ones pop up all the time. Which make me dislike this whole concept of the split zone even more. It caused nothing but chaos, also with all those map and achievement bugs we had. Didn't improve the narration either.I was also noticing all the book-like objects that aren't books. I don't remember there being so many in previous areas, but memory being what it is, I can't say if that's actually the case. At any rate, I kept walking up to tables with books on them, expecting something to read, and nothing.
I mean, those clearly are supposed to be books. Worm Cult books with forbidden knowledge, probably. Now, even if we assume these were written in some obscure code, it doesn't really make any sense. Why should these be coded but all other Worm Cult books documents we need to read within quests are not? It's just disappointing. And no, in all other chapters so far, every book was interactable. There were some random small stacks of books on desks at times, and even those basically functioned like bookshelves and displayed some random lorebook.Taking your usual casual strolling tour with wine, I see!
There's no reason not to make a pleasant little stroll out of all this!One might think you would know! Then again, I must remember how careless you are about the welfare of your assistants in general.
I'm actually a very caring person, but I only care for things that seem worth the careThere might be some journal entries from his earlier years the Great Mage wouldn't want anyone else reading. Might ruin the mystique.
Might be embarrassing, most of all.Shorter attention spans, maybe? I couldn't say.
I'd not be surprised if people's attention span has worsened. But should this be catered to? Wouldn't that just detoriate it further and worsen the whole situation even more? Who to write stories for, and what kind of stories, if people can't even follow a story for half a minute anymore?Ok, so being unfamiliar with the use of resin in that way, I want to know: after you collected it, what did you do with it? Was it ready to use in its raw form? Or did you have to process it somehow?
It needs to be dry, of course, but it doesn't need processing. You can just harvest tree resin right from the bark (or bark itself, or herbs, or dried flowers or dried fruit - all works very well as incense) and then put it on some coal or some type of heater. Or, of course, one could create an extract, but that's more complicated and not neccessary for this purpose (I've done extracts of all kinds of things for other purposes, though). I really enjoyed going on walks and just looking around whether there's something useful to harvest.I'm guessing flowers die real quick-like in the presence of so much necrotic energy.
Doesn't matter, they still emit their smell which might be helpful to mask the stench of decay (or perhaps not - too many roses at one place also smell horrible! Now imagine the whole Order of the Black Worm would smell like that). Actually that was one reason historically to cover coffins with strong-smelling flowers such as lilies (really, it wasn't just about the flowers' symbolism alone). Though the most funny thing probably is that lilies (and also other sweet-smelling flowers such as jasmine) naturally contain indole which is also present in corpses (its the chemical component that produces that strange sweetly smell).Bugs like that one always make me wonder: how did that happen? I mean, I wonder that with all bugs to some degree, but when it's a specific character giving the name of a different character as their own--a character that isn't even the same race, in this instance--it just seems even more strange. Still funny, though!
I guess in this case they just accidentally copied the wrong dialogue from some list. I do think it's some copy and paste task, as also some of the text bugs (as mentioned above) look like that.
I'll write about the main quest later. I mean, after I finish it - still two quests to go (including the epilogue).
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭For the soulbound weapons, I don't think it's a spoiler to say there will be a book to read at the end. I thought that one was really well done, too.
How does the book show up? Is there a quest related to that? Or does it just spawn at the last location (not sure if that's technically possible)?
Just wanted to answer this bit really quickly: after you've found all the soulbound items, you'll find the book at another location. I'm being purposely vague to avoid saying too much. There's no quest related to it, but the achievement pane does tell you the general area you need to go for it.
1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Not finished the main quest yet, but I thought I'd reply to the other parts of your messages first.Well, that's unfortunate, particularly if it changes the intended meaning of the dialogue. Obviously the translations aren't something I ever come across; I just get annoyed by typos and misspellings.
There's masses of typos this time, also in the German translation. It's really strange, isn't it? Never saw that in earlier chapters, well, not even last year. Many mistakes also seem to be cases where they made a mistake while copying text, so the first letter of a sentence is missing or some name is accidentally inserted into the text twice in a row.
But strangest are probably mistakes in meaning that actually should not have happened to a native German speaker (or at least not one you'd expect to work in a field where language matters a lot). There's this letter that starts with "Hail Mannimarco who's residing within his unworthy servant Wormblood!" or whatever it is in the English version (I can't remember exactly from PTS). The German word they used in the translation might at first glance look like it means "being inside a thing". But actually it only has one specific meaning: "being innate", as being a natural born part of something. And clearly not physical, but immaterial, as an idea, concept or aspect. So this usage in that context is incorrect. Mannimarco is not a naturally inborn part of Wormblood, after all. And there's several mistakes like that.
I've been thinking about this--the small things like typos and strange translations alongside larger issues like quest-stopping bugs and areas feeling somewhat hollow (like back-drops). Setting aside personal taste about the story-line (a worm cult sequel had a very low chance of me liking it from the get-go) I was thinking about this year being a year of transition. (A rocky transition, one could say). If I recall correctly, one of their stated reasons for moving to seasons was the ability to be more flexible and release content when it was ready, not just because it was time for the quarterly release. I wonder if the content suffered from being caught in between the chapter and season transition. Bascially, serving up a chapter while internally transitioning to the seasonal model caused a lot more problems than they foresaw. I don't know. I think I'm not explaining my thoughts very well, and of course I don't know any details about their internal structure. I guess I'm just looking for a reason why so many things fell flat, or were buggy, or were just wrong (like the translation issues you mentioned).I did eventually find all of the soul shriven--that was some cool zone ambiance. Also made me wonder what/who else might have inadvertently ended up on Nirn due to this reverse planemeld.
Who knows who will show up in upcoming stories. I'm also curious whether the character I let go at the end of the Aldwilne Citadel quest will show up again. I'd hope so but I'm sadly not sure about that as players could make different choices there. I'm also wondering whether the choice made there will ever be mentioned in another story, as at least the one I made could be considered rather scandalous And there's one witness who knows about that, after all.
One rather angry/annoyed witness! It would be interesting, especially considering the post-quest conversation with a certain npc, whether that character does show up again anywhere. As for player choice...well, remember in the base game players had to choose whether to save or sacrifice Raz, and that choice ended up meaning nothing in the end. So if ZOS stays true to form, they'll bring back any character they choose, whenever they choose. I don't know how the other options in the Aldwilne CItadel quest play out, so I can't say if it's reasonable for the character to return from them.Definitely a limitation of the system so far. Hopefully they keep refining it/adding to it so that it gets closer to the single rpg aspect of giving us more control of what our character says/thinks/feels. I don't know what kind of limitations they are up against when it comes to this system, or how much more complex adding one more character response option would make the branching dialogue system. Our character's lines aren't voiced, but if the npc is going to react to each type of response, that could potentially lead to a lot more lines of dialogue that need to be recorded.
I understand that the number of options they can give might be limited because the more options, the more different outcomes need to be written and the more voice lines need to be recorded. But if the number of options is limited, I'd rather see them write them in a meaningful, interesting way, than "wasting" the few options they can include for silly jokes, completely contextless random flirting, or crass lines that only serve some shock value.
Well, I would, too. It's just, I have to remind myself they're writing for a wide audience and not just me. I do think they tend to stray towards the jokey more often these days, and while I do like fun/funny/amusing moments in my rpgs, I prefer the balance of them to be more serious.
That is the one I saw first. Only I thought his face had been soul-shrivened. I actually thought he was soul-shriven at first.I'm glad I haven't run into them again, because that kind of repetition weakens the impact for me. I see the mage caught in a bubble in the water quite frequently, to the point where I now think, "Dude, this is all on you," and I don't even bother trying to help him.
Yes, at some point I don't bother anymore. Unfortunately, that applies to many of the Solstice random encounters now - some seem to show up all the time. Bubble guy, Millie Reynaud, even the pirates. I'd rather see a bit more of the Argonians or perhaps the Maormer ghost as that encounter includes a chest at least I think there were more different random encounters some years ago? Back in Blackwood?
I ran into the adoring fan waaaay too much. I know there was a whole sequence with him, and he stopped showing up after I completed it, but then they fixed it so the achievement was character specific instead of account bound, and he was all over the place again. But overall, yeah, Blackwood had some good random encounters.
I didn't mean to imply the background lore in the achievement was sufficient. I, too, wanted to know more about it. But that's me with every lore topic in this game. Even when they give me, say, dialogues between Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. Wonderful! But what else did they talk about? (More, more, more!)Well, in my playthrough of it, there was no notion of him turning himself in. Basically, he didn't care that I found out the truth, he wasn't remorseful, and he was annoyed with me for not bringing him back any lizard-bear scales. He mostly just griped about how much harder his life was going to be, and he wasn't at all concerned that I might report him to the authorities.
Interesting. In mine, it ended with him saying, okay fine, he'll turn himself in, and it really bothered me a bit that we could only accept that and leave. While it really didn't seem like there was actual remorse, and we actually had no reason to believe him he would not just run off as soon as we turn our back on him.
Yeah, I wouldn't have trusted him to turn himself in, either.I hope the dialogue doesn't give away any hint of it, so as to make it more plausible that they'd help. As for the lorebook--well, that's his personal journal, so if our characters read it, and are horrified to find out they helped a member of the Dark Brotherhood, maybe they shouldn't have been so nosy!
His diary is already there from the very beginning, even before you accept the quest, though. So as soon as you read it, you know about his background. This does cause a bit of a problem, I find, since learning this would surely be off-putting for many player characters, so why would they still choose to help him? It shouldn't be so obvious from the start.
Perhaps the diary should only have been available after the quest, then. Or...maybe the quest could have had a choice involved if the player character found out he was in the DB and didn't want to help him after all. They could have taken the tablets to the nearest interested Argonian (or kept them for themselves, or sold them on the Argonian relic black market).Sometimes I wonder if the average Tamriel/Nirn denizen is rather clueless about the big events going on that we get involved in. I mean, in the base game, with dark anchors dropping in all the zones, and the Worm Cult everywhere, I'd think just about everyone would know who the cult is, what they're up to, and so forth.
They should not be clueless. I mean, the whole world also seems to know about every tiny thing you did in a side quest who knows where, after all.
Seems to be: if it's gossip, they know all about it. If it's verifiable fact, they never heard of it.I wonder why I wasn't able to. I mean, even if one chooses to side with the lamias in that Coldharbour quest, one still has to first deal with the Shadow Walkers and what's her name. It would have been cool if they were kind of hostile to people who had chosen to side with the lamias, actually. Honestly, I can't recall which side my main character chose--it was so long ago, and I've done that quest on multiple characters, and sometimes I choose one side, and sometimes the other.
I guess that could be the issue there - that you sided with the lamias. My main character who got that dialogue option sided with the Bosmer tribe.
Maybe, but it doesn't make sense that I would have to ask "what's a shadow walker?" I guess I can pretend my character was feigning ignorance so they wouldn't realize he was the one responsible for the slaughter of their elders. "Shadow walker, you say? Never heard of them! Never snuck into their council of elders. Didn't even know they had a council!"I think it's an interesting choice to have a line of dialogue that a character cannot understand if they aren't Argonian. Whether it's a hint of something more or not, I think it adds to the atmosphere of the world and makes the npcs seem more like their own persons with their own histories.
Then again, why would or characters not be able to understand foreign languages (except for Cyrodiilic, which everyone seems to speak anyway)?
It would be cool if there was more to do with languages in the game. WoW had different languages, sort of. If your character was a night elf, for example, you chould choose to type in the night elf language--so when you chatted in zone or group or /say, other night elves would be able to understand you, but humans or dwarves or gnomes would only see the night elf language written out. But for the player using the language, you were still typing in English (in my case) and the other night elves would see it as English--it was simply a different text display for other players on non night elf characters. Every non-human race had their own language. It was a cool little rp element to the game.Shorter attention spans, maybe? I couldn't say.
I'd not be surprised if people's attention span has worsened. But should this be catered to? Wouldn't that just detoriate it further and worsen the whole situation even more? Who to write stories for, and what kind of stories, if people can't even follow a story for half a minute anymore?
No, I don't think it should be catered to. Unfortunately, I'm not the one making the decisions.
Anyway, I meant to comment on your observations of some of the other quests, so here we go!So, to continue (and finish) my notes on the East Solstice side quests...
"Blood on the Water":That was one I enjoyed. Although the start was a little irksome - realizing that the map of the cave system went missing again! It had been reported on PTS and got fixed there, but for unknown reasons, it was bugged again on Live. And that's not the only situation where a bug that was already fixed on PTS showed up again on Live, but I think I already mentioned that yesterday. Makes me wonder what happened there, probably some kind of mix-up?!
When it comes to the quest itself, I liked that it was a longer quest and most of all the variety of tasks. The running back and forth through the same location was a bit annoying (especially without a map...), I think I would have liked it better if the quest would have somehow progressed over several different locations. Also, I had expected something more akin to that base game naval battle from the Dominion main questline and not just fighting aboard a halted ship. Still, in total, the different tasks were fun.
When it comes to dialogues: Why were we called "pirate" all the time? At least in the German translation, there was never any line about joining their crew (not even temporarily).
I liked that you could talk to everyone at the end and that they all refer to events from earlier stories. On the other hand, it does feel a little artificial, no? Especially with that one Alfiq who was involved in events of 3 or 4 different chapters. It's nostalgia bonus, sure, but doesn't it make the world feel small (apart from it not being very realistic) if a single person is somehow involved in all these stories taking place across the whole continent?
Hmm, I didn't noticethe missing map of the cave system. I mean, I didn't realize it was supposed to have a map. I don't remember being called pirate by them. I thought it was clear we were just helping them out temporarily. In fact, at the end, the alfiq says something about the dilemma of staying with the crew or joining us (or something along those lines). When I play it again, I'll see how much I'm called pirate.
I understand when people say recurring characters or us being known everywhere makes the world feel small, but to me it comes across a little differently. To me it's a mark of how much my character has done, all the places he's been and people he's met. I like the little call-backs, especially in this case, when we were just talking to people about what we knew of places they were from. We hadn't actually met most of them before, and since they'd been in Coldharbour, we were able to catch them up on what had been going on in Nirn. I also really liked that I could induct someone into the Undaunted--no longer 'fresh meat', after all!"Lost Among the Ashes":Bluntly said, I totally hated this one on PTS. The more astonished was I when I noticed that some details had changed on Live, although I'm really not sure if it's an actual change based on criticism posted during the PTS phase, or a matter of dialogue options (I couldn't completely remember whether I choose the same ones this time - especially since "neutral" and "friendly" are often so similar!), or whether it's somehow a matter of translation (on PTS, everything is in English, so now on Live was the first time I've seen all German dialogues, lorebooks and such). I almost think some details were changed later, since during the quest there are still lots of hints that fit the earlier concept I've seen on PTS.
What was this earlier concept and what did I hate about it? There's still this build-up now about Sirilonwe getting angrier and angrier because she feels wronged by her partner (I personally found those dialogues super annoying! Her problems aren't mine, and also, she could just behave like a normal mature adult and talk with her partner, or just end the cooperation like a normal person if she's not content with it? They're both supposed to be scholars, but the way they acted was... well, it didn't really reflect that but felt more like a silly cliché. And it even felt like Sirilonwe was just power-hungry and therefore eager to get rid of her partner, instead of being an actual victim - what she said about him and what we actually got to see within those short conversations with him just didn't match up; something really felt off for me - this made the end even worse because it felt like he was the victim of the situation, and he becomes the victim a final time at the end, and we can't say anything about that). Mihinassi (Yes, I also wondered where those grapes and cheese were coming from!) also mentions at the beginning that there's some kind of conflict going on.
Anyway, on PTS this situation would basically lead Sirilonwe killing all vampires in a fit of rage - even if you've chosen to spare them in dialogue - , usually coming up with some excuse why she had to kill them (despite of being an expert on different strains of vampirism and their cure, as she states at the start of the quest). The random murder of vampires you just treated in a friendly, lenient way felt like it was supposed to be a running gag, and I really disliked that. Murder as a joke is a concept I find of really bad taste, but not only that, I also had the feeling it completely took away the player's agency. The way it played on PTS for me was really that I always chose to spare the vampires, just to see that a second later Sirilonwe incinerates them with a spell, followed by some excuse or "funny" comment. It was frustrating! Even the ending of the whole story was like that (and made me never want to play this quest again, actually).
Now, she still kills her partner and some of the vampires during the quest in the current version. But at least it's hinted on them attacking or posing a real threat now, instead of the PTS version where it looked more like she was just angry and her arguing was always something like "They could have become a threat one day!" I'm still not content with the end, because I think the player should have gotten a real choice to decide over that infected partner's fate. Doesn't matter that letting that vampire go might cause trouble for the common people of Tamriel - the player character should still have this choice. And it wouldn't be the first time we could make a harmful choice; there were several situations in the base game where we could choose to make the "bad" decision. I just really dislike having agency taken away from me where it's not absolutely necessary for the plot, and especially frustrating to me are fake choices where we can make some decision in dialogue but then the opposite happens anyway.
Location design was impressive, as usual. The puzzles were made easier on Live. Originally, there were no yelled comments about which seals to use (you just had to go by the lorebook), and if you made a mistake, it did reset. Now it doesn't reset anymore but you can just try the next thing, one by one, until everything is correct. Also, Sirilonwe yells at you what to do, in such detail that it's barely a puzzle anymore. As someone who enjoys doing them on my own, I do find that annoying. Help should remain optional, by choosing to ask a character through dialogue.
Seems like this quest was going to be annoying in whatever version.In the end, if you tell her to spare him/give him a second chance, does she still kill him anyway? Because...whatever, if so. Why even have a choice then?
I was disappointed that the puzzles were fail-safe. I took care to read the lorebook and take notes on the correct order, and then she just yelled it out anyway. And then one time I misclicked in the middle of the order, and no big deal I could just keep going. Then it's not really a puzzle--it's just a thing you have to click on a few times. So, yeah, I think this quest was a big miss in terms of story-telling, though the place itself was visually impressive and I did like the shaking effects they used, so points to them for making it more immersive that way."Choice and Consequence":Maybe you already guessed, but this was my favorite of all East Solstice side quests. The different options and different endings - if more quests were like this, there was nothing to complain about! I tested this several times on PTS just to see the outcome of different decisions. It was really fun. I also appreciate that you can actually make an evil decision here, and also that you can spare that one cultist despite having been given different orders (only if you have the right dialogue option, though - if you have not finished base game content before, it's missing and the cultist can't be saved; actually I'm not entirely content with this, as I think such a big moral decision should not depend on having or not having finished other content before, but this roleplay option should always be available for every character) - finally it feels like our character can make actual decisions instead of just following whatever orders we got. I'd actually loved if the ability to choose a side would have been even more fleshed out. Honestly - why couldn't we just decide to turn Cariel in? Could have ended with her being able to flee, fine with me, but the option itself would have been appreciated.
And yes, the base premise of the quest seemed a little random. Well, it still feels a little random somehow (and I guess the only reason for Naemon's return was nostalgia, as there's no real background lore on it and it also doesn't really lead to anything else in the story, as a whole - I'm also not sure whether it can lead to anything as people will have made different decisions about his fate at the end of the quest; I let him live, of course). But I can accept it, I guess, as the quest itself was fun to play at least. Though it does lead to a lot of questions, sure. It just seems strange how someone could, by whatever means, just bring Naemon back while resurrecting Mannimarco was presented to us as a super complicated almost impossible thing?! I don't know how this makes any sense. Then again, do we even know if this is the real Naemon? Though I believe his slight character change (He was never that evil/cruel in base game or do I remember him wrong?) is more a continuity problem than a real hint on some obscure background story we've not seen or heard of yet. What's a Shackle, by the way?
Sneaking was fun, but there was so much space around the camp which made it easy. That beginning where we're supposed to throw a stone for distraction or something like that didn't make much sense in my case as there were no people around anywhere (probably another player had just killed them and they hadn't respawned yet). There was no real greeting either, or at least the dialogue felt like the beginning was missing somehow. Ah, who knows.
The disguise - yes, that was fun. I tried to remain consistent, though I don't get why they just don't deactivate the other one as soon as you've put on one of them? Would easily solve the continuity problem. And while we're at it: I dislike that you can't get the disguises anymore after the quest! You don't get access to the boxes anymore (Really makes me wonder why?!). This really annoyed me as I wanted to collect both disguises just for costume use. Yes, I know old disguises were officially made costumes with some update, but it doesn't happen automatically for the new ones. Well, looks like I have to collect them on a different character later (collect them and move them into the bank immediately). Couldn't do it yet as I don't have another character in East Solstice right now, and to get one to the other side, I either need to do Solstice main quest part 6 or teleport to someone else, but it was in the middle of the night, so there was no one else around, of course.
Oh, and I finally found the First Dialogue between Mannimarco and Vanny in that fortress! Interesting the Worm Cult keeps it there
Yeah, despite my initial reaction when I first came across this quest (which I already wrote about), it was one of my favorites of the island.I actually liked Naemon's character in base game. He wasn't that cruel then, but I can believe his time dead/in Coldharbor (I think he ends up there, but maybe not) would have wrought some change on him. But the reason I chose to side with him/let him live is that I always felt he got a raw deal in base game. Now, if this choice does come back to haunt my character later, so be it--he can live with the consequences of his choices! There's actually a lot I could say about Naemon in general, but that would get me off-track, I think.That soup quest:
I think I didn't comment on that the last time. It's a nice little quest. Rather short. The atmosphere is fine, though. I think they could have added some animation that makes us actually share the soup with Hecicla, since it's only refered to in dialogue, but it doesn't "actually" happen. I mean, eating animations (also one sitting down and eating soup...) do already exist in the game anyway.
Yeah, it was a little disappointing that we didn't actually sit down and share soup with her. But overall it was great for a quick and easy side-quest--it packed more lore than some of the longer quests! I would have liked to find out why becoming a courier is seen as somehow disgraceful in Stone Nest culture, but we never do get to follow-up Wuleen-Kur
I started on one of those two quests I missed. Thanks for pointing them out to me! I'll report back on them soon enough.
0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just wanted to answer this bit really quickly: after you've found all the soulbound items, you'll find the book at another location. I'm being purposely vague to avoid saying too much. There's no quest related to it, but the achievement pane does tell you the general area you need to go for it.
That's interesting. Well, I'll see how fast I'll find all those weapons. I find it remarkable, by the way, that I've only come across one of them yet while stumbling across the soulshriven was so much easier.One rather angry/annoyed witness! It would be interesting, especially considering the post-quest conversation with a certain npc, whether that character does show up again anywhere. As for player choice...well, remember in the base game players had to choose whether to save or sacrifice Raz, and that choice ended up meaning nothing in the end. So if ZOS stays true to form, they'll bring back any character they choose, whenever they choose. I don't know how the other options in the Aldwilne CItadel quest play out, so I can't say if it's reasonable for the character to return from them.
From what I read...the other choice will lead to Naemon being turned to stone. Not sure about details, but I imagine you probably use the Staff of Magnus against him? Anyway, that ending would make it a little more complicated for him to show up somewhere else again.
The more I think about it, it would actually be disappointing if he doesn't show up again now, after we could choose to let him go! He can't just wander about who knows where with the Staff and no one ever hears about it, right?!Well, I would, too. It's just, I have to remind myself they're writing for a wide audience and not just me. I do think they tend to stray towards the jokey more often these days, and while I do like fun/funny/amusing moments in my rpgs, I prefer the balance of them to be more serious.
If I look at the polls about favorite chapters and such, I'm not sure whether the wide audience enjoys the new "funny" writing style much, either.That is the one I saw first. Only I thought his face had been soul-shrivened. I actually thought he was soul-shriven at first.
I think he's supposed to look like a zombie. Also, it's really supposed to be the third encounter. There are more where small hints in dialogue hint at having met the characters before, but the order in which they do show up really seems to be arbitrary in this zone. Perhaps another bug.I ran into the adoring fan waaaay too much. I know there was a whole sequence with him, and he stopped showing up after I completed it, but then they fixed it so the achievement was character specific instead of account bound, and he was all over the place again. But overall, yeah, Blackwood had some good random encounters.
I think I never found the hidden treasure of the squirrel lady.I didn't mean to imply the background lore in the achievement was sufficient. I, too, wanted to know more about it. But that's me with every lore topic in this game. Even when they give me, say, dialogues between Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. Wonderful! But what else did they talk about? (More, more, more!)
But in this case it's a bit strange they bring up some regional legend, have an achievement about it, and you learn absolutely nothing about it except for one line in the achievement description. If I see such a thing introduced, I'd expect at least a bit more info.Perhaps the diary should only have been available after the quest, then. Or...maybe the quest could have had a choice involved if the player character found out he was in the DB and didn't want to help him after all. They could have taken the tablets to the nearest interested Argonian (or kept them for themselves, or sold them on the Argonian relic black market).
Yes, that would have been a solution, and not too difficult to implement from the technical perspective either.Maybe, but it doesn't make sense that I would have to ask "what's a shadow walker?" I guess I can pretend my character was feigning ignorance so they wouldn't realize he was the one responsible for the slaughter of their elders. "Shadow walker, you say? Never heard of them! Never snuck into their council of elders. Didn't even know they had a council!"
It doesn't make sense. I was just wondering what might be the trigger for that dialogue option, the technical background. I think that's probably the only explanation as this tribe never shows up anywhere else and that's the only choice to make in that story. I'll see, I guess, if/when I repeat East Solstice on my Sixth House Dunmer. He helped the lamias back then.It would be cool if there was more to do with languages in the game. WoW had different languages, sort of. If your character was a night elf, for example, you chould choose to type in the night elf language--so when you chatted in zone or group or /say, other night elves would be able to understand you, but humans or dwarves or gnomes would only see the night elf language written out. But for the player using the language, you were still typing in English (in my case) and the other night elves would see it as English--it was simply a different text display for other players on non night elf characters. Every non-human race had their own language. It was a cool little rp element to the game.
That sounds nice. Additions to the topic of languages are always appreciated; it's something that interests me. Though sometimes I wonder whether that's not a bit too much to hope for, and we should be happy enough if we get decent storytelling at least.I understand when people say recurring characters or us being known everywhere makes the world feel small, but to me it comes across a little differently. To me it's a mark of how much my character has done, all the places he's been and people he's met. I like the little call-backs, especially in this case, when we were just talking to people about what we knew of places they were from. We hadn't actually met most of them before, and since they'd been in Coldharbour, we were able to catch them up on what had been going on in Nirn. I also really liked that I could induct someone into the Undaunted--no longer 'fresh meat', after all!
If it's one location per npc and we can mention to them we've already been there, I'm fine with that. But in case of that Alfiq, it turns out we've both been involved in 4 different stories in 4 different zones, from how the dialogue goes. Now I know we travel a lot, and as the "great hero" get involved in huge catastrophes all the time, but that Alfiq? I find that a little unrealistic.Seems like this quest was going to be annoying in whatever version.In the end, if you tell her to spare him/give him a second chance, does she still kill him anyway? Because...whatever, if so. Why even have a choice then?
Yes, and I find it horribly annoying! The fact that...they at least changed it to make him look like an actual threat and stopped making a silly running gag out of those kills was a small improvement, at least, but generally I still dislike a lot how we get our agency taken away there. Makes me wonder how they got that idea to design it like that... It's just so obviously annoying for the player, right?I was disappointed that the puzzles were fail-safe. I took care to read the lorebook and take notes on the correct order, and then she just yelled it out anyway. And then one time I misclicked in the middle of the order, and no big deal I could just keep going. Then it's not really a puzzle--it's just a thing you have to click on a few times. So, yeah, I think this quest was a big miss in terms of story-telling, though the place itself was visually impressive and I did like the shaking effects they used, so points to them for making it more immersive that way.
Sad, isn't it? I, too, found the location really impressive, and the topic itself could have been really interesting, too. But what they made of it... I also don't get why they even include those "puzzles" if the npcs just yell the solution at you without any way to mute them?! Getting hints should be optional.I actually liked Naemon's character in base game. He wasn't that cruel then, but I can believe his time dead/in Coldharbor (I think he ends up there, but maybe not) would have wrought some change on him. But the reason I chose to side with him/let him live is that I always felt he got a raw deal in base game. Now, if this choice does come back to haunt my character later, so be it--he can live with the consequences of his choices! There's actually a lot I could say about Naemon in general, but that would get me off-track, I think.
I, too, liked him. And I understand that......the time in Coldharbor might have changed him (I'd also have enjoyed seeing a change with Mannimarco, but we already had that topic). It just seems a little extreme, I find. He's so sadistic?! Turning all those people to stone with his staff and even putting them on pedestrals in that one room, like a little collection. He never seemed cruel to me in the base game and I'm not sure how his imprisonment in Coldharbor could have led to this. Except for magical corruption somehow, perhaps. Who knows, I mean, we don't even know how exactly he was brought back. And in those dialogues after you chose to side with him, he also seems much calmer, more contemplative and actually almost friendly. Anyway, I wondered whether they made him more cruel now to emphasize that he's "a bad guy". We know they love their clichés now.I started on one of those two quests I missed. Thanks for pointing them out to me! I'll report back on them soon enough.
In case the one you started was the death hound one, you must have already finished it, most probably, as it took less than a minute... But the other one with Ezhkel is really interesting!
I've progressed another bit through the main quest now. The only thing still missing is the epilogue (I'll write about everything after I've finished it). Oh, which reminds me... Look at the nice Christmas gift I got myself!
Not entirely sure yet where to put him... And I wish there was a way to clean it, look at this!
Though normally you only see it from this perspective anyway:
There's another thing I've been wondering about - how much does this visualization make any sense? It's supposed to be the chains drawing Coldharbor to Nirn or the other way round:
It's interesting to look at, of course, but - how and why? Why would some chains randomly break through walls, horizontally?
At least it's not as horrible as this visual bug:
This looks much better...
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭One rather angry/annoyed witness! It would be interesting, especially considering the post-quest conversation with a certain npc, whether that character does show up again anywhere. As for player choice...well, remember in the base game players had to choose whether to save or sacrifice Raz, and that choice ended up meaning nothing in the end. So if ZOS stays true to form, they'll bring back any character they choose, whenever they choose. I don't know how the other options in the Aldwilne CItadel quest play out, so I can't say if it's reasonable for the character to return from them.
From what I read...the other choice will lead to Naemon being turned to stone. Not sure about details, but I imagine you probably use the Staff of Magnus against him? Anyway, that ending would make it a little more complicated for him to show up somewhere else again.
The more I think about it, it would actually be disappointing if he doesn't show up again now, after we could choose to let him go! He can't just wander about who knows where with the Staff and no one ever hears about it, right?!
Right? I meanit's not like he's a non-descript person roaming around with a hum-drum staff. It seems like he should come back into play again.Well, I would, too. It's just, I have to remind myself they're writing for a wide audience and not just me. I do think they tend to stray towards the jokey more often these days, and while I do like fun/funny/amusing moments in my rpgs, I prefer the balance of them to be more serious.
If I look at the polls about favorite chapters and such, I'm not sure whether the wide audience enjoys the new "funny" writing style much, either.
The forum audience certainly doesn't seem to enjoy the "funny" writing, but I honestly couldn't say how wide the forum audience might be. I honestly don't know how ZOS can tell if the writing is enjoyed overall. Quest completion doesn't necessarily equate to enjoyment, after all.That is the one I saw first. Only I thought his face had been soul-shrivened. I actually thought he was soul-shriven at first.
I think he's supposed to look like a zombie. Also, it's really supposed to be the third encounter. There are more where small hints in dialogue hint at having met the characters before, but the order in which they do show up really seems to be arbitrary in this zone. Perhaps another bug.
I guess I've never gotten up close and personal with any zombies, so I didn't notice the resemblance.I ran into the adoring fan waaaay too much. I know there was a whole sequence with him, and he stopped showing up after I completed it, but then they fixed it so the achievement was character specific instead of account bound, and he was all over the place again. But overall, yeah, Blackwood had some good random encounters.
I think I never found the hidden treasure of the squirrel lady.
I did...but I cheated.I didn't mean to imply the background lore in the achievement was sufficient. I, too, wanted to know more about it. But that's me with every lore topic in this game. Even when they give me, say, dialogues between Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. Wonderful! But what else did they talk about? (More, more, more!)
But in this case it's a bit strange they bring up some regional legend, have an achievement about it, and you learn absolutely nothing about it except for one line in the achievement description. If I see such a thing introduced, I'd expect at least a bit more info.
More info would be nice, definitely!Maybe, but it doesn't make sense that I would have to ask "what's a shadow walker?" I guess I can pretend my character was feigning ignorance so they wouldn't realize he was the one responsible for the slaughter of their elders. "Shadow walker, you say? Never heard of them! Never snuck into their council of elders. Didn't even know they had a council!"
It doesn't make sense. I was just wondering what might be the trigger for that dialogue option, the technical background. I think that's probably the only explanation as this tribe never shows up anywhere else and that's the only choice to make in that story. I'll see, I guess, if/when I repeat East Solstice on my Sixth House Dunmer. He helped the lamias back then.
I'll have another character who helped the Bosmer run through it. I know at least one of them did!It would be cool if there was more to do with languages in the game. WoW had different languages, sort of. If your character was a night elf, for example, you chould choose to type in the night elf language--so when you chatted in zone or group or /say, other night elves would be able to understand you, but humans or dwarves or gnomes would only see the night elf language written out. But for the player using the language, you were still typing in English (in my case) and the other night elves would see it as English--it was simply a different text display for other players on non night elf characters. Every non-human race had their own language. It was a cool little rp element to the game.
That sounds nice. Additions to the topic of languages are always appreciated; it's something that interests me. Though sometimes I wonder whether that's not a bit too much to hope for, and we should be happy enough if we get decent storytelling at least.
I always hope for more than we can realistically get. I do like coming across the language tidbits we do get--like with the Argonians in eastern Solstice. Or words/phrases that crop up in the companions' dialogues--Zerith-var in particular.I understand when people say recurring characters or us being known everywhere makes the world feel small, but to me it comes across a little differently. To me it's a mark of how much my character has done, all the places he's been and people he's met. I like the little call-backs, especially in this case, when we were just talking to people about what we knew of places they were from. We hadn't actually met most of them before, and since they'd been in Coldharbour, we were able to catch them up on what had been going on in Nirn. I also really liked that I could induct someone into the Undaunted--no longer 'fresh meat', after all!
If it's one location per npc and we can mention to them we've already been there, I'm fine with that. But in case of that Alfiq, it turns out we've both been involved in 4 different stories in 4 different zones, from how the dialogue goes. Now I know we travel a lot, and as the "great hero" get involved in huge catastrophes all the time, but that Alfiq? I find that a little unrealistic.
I find it easier to take, considering it's an Alfiq, and the Khajiit do have a history of traveling. But mostly it just falls in line with my view of cats--they roam. (I once had an enterprising cat who would take off for weekends. We literally wouldn't see her for a few days, and then she'd come back. We figured she had another family she cozied up to on holiday weekends.) Now, whether that makes sense for Elder Scrolls lore, I don't know exactly, but I didn't mind it.I actually liked Naemon's character in base game. He wasn't that cruel then, but I can believe his time dead/in Coldharbor (I think he ends up there, but maybe not) would have wrought some change on him. But the reason I chose to side with him/let him live is that I always felt he got a raw deal in base game. Now, if this choice does come back to haunt my character later, so be it--he can live with the consequences of his choices! There's actually a lot I could say about Naemon in general, but that would get me off-track, I think.
I, too, liked him. And I understand that......the time in Coldharbor might have changed him (I'd also have enjoyed seeing a change with Mannimarco, but we already had that topic). It just seems a little extreme, I find. He's so sadistic?! Turning all those people to stone with his staff and even putting them on pedestrals in that one room, like a little collection. He never seemed cruel to me in the base game and I'm not sure how his imprisonment in Coldharbor could have led to this. Except for magical corruption somehow, perhaps. Who knows, I mean, we don't even know how exactly he was brought back. And in those dialogues after you chose to side with him, he also seems much calmer, more contemplative and actually almost friendly. Anyway, I wondered whether they made him more cruel now to emphasize that he's "a bad guy". We know they love their clichés now.
I was thinking that hewasn't exactly pleased to be working with the Worm Cult. This is me reading a lot into it, but I imagine they brought him back for their reasons, and he felt obligated to work with them, but he wasn't really into it, and was getting annoyed/frustrated, and that led to him acting more cruel than usual. Because he is quite calm and, as you say, contemplative in the post-quest talk. All in all, I really would like to see more of him and what he gets up to.I've progressed another bit through the main quest now. The only thing still missing is the epilogue (I'll write about everything after I've finished it). Oh, which reminds me... Look at the nice Christmas gift I got myself!
Not entirely sure yet where to put him... And I wish there was a way to clean it, look at this!
Though normally you only see it from this perspective anyway:
I'm glad you finally got your hands on it! Now the balance of power is yours.There's another thing I've been wondering about - how much does this visualization make any sense? It's supposed to be the chains drawing Coldharbor to Nirn or the other way round:
It's interesting to look at, of course, but - how and why? Why would some chains randomly break through walls, horizontally?
Yeah, I didn't quite understand those chains, either. Visually interesting, but logically...huh? Well, we can just blame the idiot cultists--they're an easy scapegoat!At least it's not as horrible as this visual bug:
Haha, yeah! I had that one happen, too. I even pointed it out to my husband, who said, "Freaky."This looks much better...
Ah, look at you two! Marching in formation to carry out your shenanigans! Nice mounts!
Finally found the other missing quest, so I should soon be able to report back on those.0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Ok, now I have for real finished all the Solstice content.
Death Hound's Devotion:I'm a sucker for reuniting people with their companion animals, so this quest was right up my alley. It's very short, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have a landscape packed full of quests of longer length. However, given that Solstice seems a little light on quests in general, having a shorter one felt a little bit lackluster.
Some points:
1. The Stirk Fellowship sent her to investigate instead of investigating themselves? At this point, I'm wondering: does the Stirk Fellowship actually do anything?
2. Is that a new hairstyle on Carminia? I don't recall seeing it before. I enjoy seeing new npc designs/styles for their outfits and hair--makes them feel less like auto-generated carbon copies of one another.
3. There was a typo in the dialogue: Bloodmire instead of Bloodmite. The voice-over said the correct word at least.
4. I found out that death hounds drink blood, a thing I did not previously know. As in, that's the only thing they drink/eat, apparently.
5. Since I'd already done the Ashbound Hall quest, there was a funny little interaction. I asked her what she knows of the place and, after she tells me, I say, "I've been to Ashbound Hall and took care of the situation there." It came across like I was testing her--seeing if she's on the level or something. It amused me, but it was kind of an awkward conversation.
6. However, it's made up for by her response to me saying I've been there. She said, "That's not mysterious sounding whatsoever," and it made me laugh. I hadn't considered how saying, "I took care of the situation there," might come across as mysterious, but I like the idea of my character inadvertently sounding like a mer of mystery.
7. The conversation got a little weird after I returned Bloodmite to her and engaged her in the post-quest dialogue. I asked why she became a vampire hunter and she said she saw an opportunity for work. I like that she had just a pretty standard reason for doing it, because it makes sense that someone might view it as just a way to make money and not take up the job because they have a personal stake in it (such as: a vampire killed my family and now I want revenge). But then my character's only line is to say, "You became a vampire hunter for profit?" as if it's a weird or immoral thing to do. Then she gets defensive and says, "Nothing wrong with profit! Isn't that why you adventure?" That's where that conversational line ends, so I don't even get to tell her that my character has varied reasons for why he does the things he does and sometimes it is for profit but not always. It felt like another case of the game deciding who/what my character is.
8. I did look her up in Sunport, because she said she was going to go get some wine for her, blood for the dog, and find a nice beach to relax on. I thought I'd have to search outside the city environs, but there she was, hanging out in front of the fighter's guild. Yet when I talked to her, she said, "You found our secret spot." Yeah, real secret, right out here in the open in the middle of the city. Makes me think she was meant to be out on the beach, but ZOS moved her to a more easily found location but didn't change her dialogue. Anyway, I got to pet the blood hound, which was fun.
An Ambition Fulfilled:Now this was a very interesting quest and brought a lot of questions/observations to my mind. Ezhkel's personality wasn't quite to my taste, but I don't expect (or even want) to like every npc, so that's fine. I like that it was a longer, more involved quest and was actually surprised at the amount of travel involved.
1. When I started the dialogue, I did think: oh, a golden daedra; great, another one of Meridia's goons. But Ezhkel actually isn't affiliated with any prince--broke their shackles long ago--and I found that quite interesting. Are there many daedra like this, or is this one unique? But since they did appear as golden, it did make me think their most recent foray had been in the Colored Rooms.
2. Ezhkel was heavy on the flattery, which was kind of funny and kind of annoying. I noticed the character response options for this npc were always either: neutral/bland, funny/teasing in a sort of flirty way, and outright flirting. This bothered me because it was so limited. I ended up taking the neutral/bland reply except for once, when the joke didn't sound flirty. All in all, though, I could have done without so much innuendo and double-entendre in the dialogue.
3. I did wonder who was the old friend who gave Ezhkel the Velothi conjuring rod.
4. If I'm understanding the dialogue correctly, turns out Ezhkel was the coy goat at the Sanguine fair in western Solstice. If so, that makes the fair a little more understandable with regards to Sanguine lore. Since Ezhkel isn't actually a Sanguine affiliated daedra, but was just role-playing the part, it makes sense they might not have gotten the Sanguine vibe down quite right.
5. Finally, a puzzle where the npc doesn't scream the answer at me! I did feel bad for the monkey, though. Poor little guy.
6. I don't appreciate Ezhkel talking to me in that condescending way they sometimes have, where they insinuate that I'm stupid. In fact, the entire conversation with them before we go into the ritual got on my nerves. I fully understood that the only way they were going to get into Coldharbour behind Molag Bal's back was to do something sneaky/desperate/etc. So when they say I'm going to sacrifice them, my actual reply in my head was: "Ok, whatever. I guess that's the fastest route to get there." But my character has to act shocked and dismayed, and then the response options all sucked. I could tell them to explain it to me as though I had no idea what they're talking about (except it already made sense to me); say a jokey thing about ending them right now (which would probably earn me a lecture about needing the ritual, which I already know); or some weird flirty line where I refuse to kill them (as if my character would ever flirt with a daedra!).
7. There was a nice call back where Ezhkel referenced Ithelia without knowing it. They said, "A path chosen is a path succeeded. I forget which prince told me that, which is odd." I wish we could have told them, "Oh, that was Ithelia."
8. The little playlet where we sacrifice Ezhkel was fun, and when they broke character at the end and exposed me as a non-believer (I think that was what the cultists called me) I could only laugh.
9. In the post quest conversation, Ezhkel says: "While the Worm Cult leads the current attack on your realm, it won't be long before Molag Bal notices and decides to take on a more active role." Ok...what? Molag Bal doesn't know yet about the reverse planemeld and Mannimarco's plans? I thought the Worm Cult was working for him. Did I misunderstand what it means when they say "before Molag Bal notices?"
Overall, I really enjoyed this quest. Like I said, Ezhkel's personality wasn't quite to my taste, but that's no big deal. Mostly I find the idea of them very interesting and I wouldn't mind coming across them at other points--see how their attempt at transcendence fares.
So, unless there are yet more quests hidden about in the landscape, I think I can now finally call my Solstice journey done. Well, except for the public dungeon group event, but who knows when I'll ever get around to trying that one again.
0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The forum audience certainly doesn't seem to enjoy the "funny" writing, but I honestly couldn't say how wide the forum audience might be. I honestly don't know how ZOS can tell if the writing is enjoyed overall. Quest completion doesn't necessarily equate to enjoyment, after all.
I'm wondering now whether the criticism about the writing also comes up at other places as regularly as it comes up here right now.I guess I've never gotten up close and personal with any zombies, so I didn't notice the resemblance.
I don't have that much contact to zombies either. The undead? Sure. But rather vampires and a lich or two.I did...but I cheated.
I always thought about looking it up on UESP, but then forgot about it. Actually happens with achievements quite often. I usually think I'll look for details later (in case I've not found everything by myself until having completed all other zone content), but then... well.I always hope for more than we can realistically get.
I'd be content enough if things were back on the same level as they were in the earlier years, really.I do like coming across the language tidbits we do get--like with the Argonians in eastern Solstice. Or words/phrases that crop up in the companions' dialogues--Zerith-var in particular.
Yes, that's always enjoyable and I really appreciate that they focused on this a bit more with Zerith-var. Though it's a bit of a pity that he also has a few lines where we don't know a translation and that aren't clearly interpretable by context. Always makes me curious what he's saying - and sadly, we can't just ask. It would be nice if there was a lorebook that teaches us a few more words and useful phrases. For all kinds of different languages on Nirn and beyond, actually.I was thinking that he wasn't exactly pleased to be working with the Worm Cult. This is me reading a lot into it, but I imagine they brought him back for their reasons, and he felt obligated to work with them, but he wasn't really into it, and was getting annoyed/frustrated, and that led to him acting more cruel than usual. Because he is quite calm and, as you say, contemplative in the post-quest talk. All in all, I really would like to see more of him and what he gets up to.
Yes, that explanation makes sense. I'm really curious about what might happen to him in the future, how his life might continue. At the same time, I'm a little wary that we might never hear of him again, sadly.I'm glad you finally got your hands on it! Now the balance of power is yours.
It's very decorative, too! Just not sure where to put it. It needs an appropriate place, after all.Ah, look at you two! Marching in formation to carry out your shenanigans! Nice mounts!
I think the black vvardvark is really the thing I enjoyed most this year in ESO. Well, the Corelanya Manor, Aldwilne Citadel and Xor-Hist quests were good, too - but nothing can beat a vvardvark!Death Hound's Devotion:
My main issue with the quest is that it's so extremely short and this year has generally been short on content. As a small extra quest among 30+ side quests - fine; nice, even. But as one of only 13 quests in total? Add to that the other extremely short quests like the soup delivery or bringing that death message to the main camp...
Except for that I found it surprising they'd be welcome in Sunport in the middle of the city. I'd guess most people would be rather sceptical when it comes to death hounds, especially considering that they're usually not friendly and not in company of harmless people. Finding her outside somewhere, at a secluded spot along the beach or elsewhere, would have made much more sense.The Stirk Fellowship sent her to investigate instead of investigating themselves? At this point, I'm wondering: does the Stirk Fellowship actually do anything?
What's the Stirk Fellowship?Is that a new hairstyle on Carminia?
I think so.Since I'd already done the Ashbound Hall quest, there was a funny little interaction.
Ah, okay. I did the hound quest first, so I missed that dialogue part.An Ambition Fulfilled:
I found this quest really interesting, too (the whole concept and cause of events as well as the idea for that character). Though......actually the whole base premise already is problematic, since it's based on the assumption that our character would be fine with helping some random daedra. Sometimes it feels like the writers had forgotten that daedra aren't just random people from another plane, but they're "demonic" immortal beings generally feared by the people of Tamriel and most would not think of helping one, no matter how charmingly the daedra might behave (this would probably made many Tamrielians even more sceptical because they'd expect some kind of dangerous trap). It doesn't really fit the "good hero" archetype either, does it? I mean, my character had no problem with it and found the whole situation very amusing (He didn't flirt, he's not the type for that, but he found the situation quite funny; Ezhkhel also didn't come across as condescending to me, perhaps I chose different dialogue options?), but he's not exactly the typical "hero" type.
Same goes for the random killing done by the daedra - not only the monkey, but also some random prisoner (to steal their rags as a disguise). And the player character can't say anything about that.
I found the puzzle at the beginning easy, but fun.
The whole "let's play Worm Cultist and prisoner" thing was also interesting to play. I only found it strange that our character only had the option to react surprised and reluctant when it comes to the sacrifice - I mean, the plan was rather clear from the beginning, wasn't it?! Also, I'm not exactly sure what's there to be mourned if we know - that's the whole plan, after all - that the daedra won't die during the sacrifice, but will immediately return, healthy and well, just in a different body (the discussion ensueing about that also felt a little repetative to me). Then again, our character also had to ask a few other rather dense questions and some "funny" dialogue options also seemed rather strange, but, okay, we could ignore them at least and I've already seen worse.
But I agree that generally, there wasn't a wide variety of dialogue options - all were assuming we were fine with the situation, and the daedra, and the flirting, and there were no more negative options whatsoever, which is rather strange, considering the stance on daedric beings in Tamriel in lore.
The Velothi conjuring rod - Divayth Fyr, perhaps? We don't know for sure, of course, but he clearly doesn't fear daedra and he collects all kinds of artefacts, surely also Velothi ones.
And no, it's not the goat from the Carnival on Solstice, it's another goat from the Sanguine shrine in the West Weald:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ezhkel
Which means the one at the Carnival remains a rather questionable depiction (in terms of lore) of Sanguine himself.
I found it strange to be called an "unbeliever" by the Worm Cultists, by the way. What do they believe in which my character doesn't believe in? With deities being real in this fictional world, it's not a question whether one believes in Molag Bal, after all - he really exists, and there's no reason for a Tamrielian to question that as everyone knows about things he's done on or with Nirn.In the post quest conversation, Ezhkel says: "While the Worm Cult leads the current attack on your realm, it won't be long before Molag Bal notices and decides to take on a more active role." Ok...what? Molag Bal doesn't know yet about the reverse planemeld and Mannimarco's plans? I thought the Worm Cult was working for him. Did I misunderstand what it means when they say "before Molag Bal notices?"
Now this......also left me a little puzzled. I guess it's another lore inconsistecy, as other things we see - in particular the whole involvement of the Darkbinder Clan and all lorebooks and dialogue related to that - clearly hint at Molag Bal being actively involved in the whole thing. Now, if he wasn't and Wormblood was basically plotting against him, first freeing Mannimarco's soul from Coldharbor against Bal's will and then Mannimarco stealing Bal's Wraithforge - that would have been a much more interesting story, to be honest. Makes me wonder whether that was the initial plan somehow, but then they funnelled Darien and Meridia into the story or didn't get everything finished in time and we got the inconsistent chaos that we got, including the merrily teleporting sarcophagus. Again, what a pity for what could have been.
Did you find Ezhkel's letter, by the way? I remember I found a letter after the end of that quest on PTS, but somehow I didn't find it now on Live and wondered whether it's bugged or something.
I've also finished the main quest now, by the way. Will write about it later or perhaps tomorrow.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I did...but I cheated.
I always thought about looking it up on UESP, but then forgot about it. Actually happens with achievements quite often. I usually think I'll look for details later (in case I've not found everything by myself until having completed all other zone content), but then... well.
That happens to me, too, but this time I remembered to look it up.I do like coming across the language tidbits we do get--like with the Argonians in eastern Solstice. Or words/phrases that crop up in the companions' dialogues--Zerith-var in particular.
Yes, that's always enjoyable and I really appreciate that they focused on this a bit more with Zerith-var. Though it's a bit of a pity that he also has a few lines where we don't know a translation and that aren't clearly interpretable by context. Always makes me curious what he's saying - and sadly, we can't just ask. It would be nice if there was a lorebook that teaches us a few more words and useful phrases. For all kinds of different languages on Nirn and beyond, actually.
I wonder how difficult it is to include expansive lorebooks in general. I know they take time to write, and they'll have to be fact/lore-checked/edited, but I wonder if there's some limit on how many they can include per chapter/dlc. I don't mean the little notes npcs are always leaving lying around; I mean the full-on lorebooks that tell us about the world, its history, and lore. A dialogue of Mannimarco and Galerion, for example; or a history of the Stone Nest. Because, honestly, I would like a lot more of them in general, and that would be a good place for ZOS to get into the details of the world in a way that doesn't really work in quest dialogue. That includes an in-depth book on languages. And since it's up to the player whether or not they stand around in game at a bookshelf and read the book in full, people who don't care about such things wouldn't be bothered. I know everything that gets put into the game has a cost, and I really do wonder if lorebooks are "expensive" (not just money, but time and production and workload) and that's why we've been seeing fewer of them these past years.I was thinking that he wasn't exactly pleased to be working with the Worm Cult. This is me reading a lot into it, but I imagine they brought him back for their reasons, and he felt obligated to work with them, but he wasn't really into it, and was getting annoyed/frustrated, and that led to him acting more cruel than usual. Because he is quite calm and, as you say, contemplative in the post-quest talk. All in all, I really would like to see more of him and what he gets up to.
Yes, that explanation makes sense. I'm really curious about what might happen to him in the future, how his life might continue. At the same time, I'm a little wary that we might never hear of him again, sadly.
Yeah, there's always the chance this was his last appearance and his ultimate fate won't ever be shown/known by us. It's too bad, really. He's a very interesting character.
I thought you had a spot all ready and waiting for it! I suggest a vault-like room, the more obstacles and traps the bettter. Not necessarily to keep others out (though that is a bonus), but mostly to keep him safely in.An Ambition Fulfilled:
I found this quest really interesting, too (the whole concept and cause of events as well as the idea for that character). Though......actually the whole base premise already is problematic, since it's based on the assumption that our character would be fine with helping some random daedra. Sometimes it feels like the writers had forgotten that daedra aren't just random people from another plane, but they're "demonic" immortal beings generally feared by the people of Tamriel and most would not think of helping one, no matter how charmingly the daedra might behave (this would probably made many Tamrielians even more sceptical because they'd expect some kind of dangerous trap). It doesn't really fit the "good hero" archetype either, does it? I mean, my character had no problem with it and found the whole situation very amusing (He didn't flirt, he's not the type for that, but he found the situation quite funny; Ezhkhel also didn't come across as condescending to me, perhaps I chose different dialogue options?), but he's not exactly the typical "hero" type.
Same goes for the random killing done by the daedra - not only the monkey, but also some random prisoner (to steal their rags as a disguise). And the player character can't say anything about that.
I found the puzzle at the beginning easy, but fun.
The whole "let's play Worm Cultist and prisoner" thing was also interesting to play. I only found it strange that our character only had the option to react surprised and reluctant when it comes to the sacrifice - I mean, the plan was rather clear from the beginning, wasn't it?! Also, I'm not exactly sure what's there to be mourned if we know - that's the whole plan, after all - that the daedra won't die during the sacrifice, but will immediately return, healthy and well, just in a different body (the discussion ensueing about that also felt a little repetative to me). Then again, our character also had to ask a few other rather dense questions and some "funny" dialogue options also seemed rather strange, but, okay, we could ignore them at least and I've already seen worse.
But I agree that generally, there wasn't a wide variety of dialogue options - all were assuming we were fine with the situation, and the daedra, and the flirting, and there were no more negative options whatsoever, which is rather strange, considering the stance on daedric beings in Tamriel in lore.
The Velothi conjuring rod - Divayth Fyr, perhaps? We don't know for sure, of course, but he clearly doesn't fear daedra and he collects all kinds of artefacts, surely also Velothi ones.
And no, it's not the goat from the Carnival on Solstice, it's another goat from the Sanguine shrine in the West Weald:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ezhkel
Which means the one at the Carnival remains a rather questionable depiction (in terms of lore) of Sanguine himself.
I found it strange to be called an "unbeliever" by the Worm Cultists, by the way. What do they believe in which my character doesn't believe in? With deities being real in this fictional world, it's not a question whether one believes in Molag Bal, after all - he really exists, and there's no reason for a Tamrielian to question that as everyone knows about things he's done on or with Nirn.
I did wonderif Ezhkel was one of Ithelia's daedra initially and 'broke their shackles' when Mora erased her from everyone's memory. But then I thought no, because it seems they've been cosplaying in all daedric realms for a long time, and they did interact with Ithelia at one point.
I wasn't under the impression that they killed the monkey. When we walked into the now-opened vault, they started a speech about how it was time to reclaim their property, but cut off when they saw the monkey and said, "Oh, it's dead." (Which was weird, because I could have sworn I heard it in there while I was getting the vault open). But maybe Ezhkel did kill it and I just missed that part. Also, I did find it harsh that they killed a prisoner to get the garb.
Well, so much for my theory that Ezhkel was the carnival goat, and thus solving the conundrum of the non-Sanguine-like carnival! I don't remember seeing Ezhkel in goat form, even though I did find all the shrines. Guess I wasn't paying enough attention!
I took the 'unbeliever' remark to mean we weren't part of their cultish club devoted to Molag Bal, not that we didn't actually believe he existed. Since we weren't really into the whole 'sacrifice a mortal to prove ourselves and earn favor' routine and all.In the post quest conversation, Ezhkel says: "While the Worm Cult leads the current attack on your realm, it won't be long before Molag Bal notices and decides to take on a more active role." Ok...what? Molag Bal doesn't know yet about the reverse planemeld and Mannimarco's plans? I thought the Worm Cult was working for him. Did I misunderstand what it means when they say "before Molag Bal notices?"
Now this......also left me a little puzzled. I guess it's another lore inconsistecy, as other things we see - in particular the whole involvement of the Darkbinder Clan and all lorebooks and dialogue related to that - clearly hint at Molag Bal being actively involved in the whole thing. Now, if he wasn't and Wormblood was basically plotting against him, first freeing Mannimarco's soul from Coldharbor against Bal's will and then Mannimarco stealing Bal's Wraithforge - that would have been a much more interesting story, to be honest. Makes me wonder whether that was the initial plan somehow, but then they funnelled Darien and Meridia into the story or didn't get everything finished in time and we got the inconsistent chaos that we got, including the merrily teleporting sarcophagus. Again, what a pity for what could have been.
I really would have preferredthe version of the story where the Worm Cult is working against Molag Bal. Or if not against him, exactly, then at least without him. Wouldn't have even had to be a 'betrayal' of Bal, since Mannimarco already did that once. It would also have made Wormblood and Mannimarco seem like more powerful and fearful characters to think they were able to pull off such feats. Ah well.Did you find Ezhkel's letter, by the way? I remember I found a letter after the end of that quest on PTS, but somehow I didn't find it now on Live and wondered whether it's bugged or something.
I've also finished the main quest now, by the way. Will write about it later or perhaps tomorrow.
I did not find a letter. Now that I know there was once one, I'm bummed about that.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how difficult it is to include expansive lorebooks in general. I know they take time to write, and they'll have to be fact/lore-checked/edited, but I wonder if there's some limit on how many they can include per chapter/dlc. I don't mean the little notes npcs are always leaving lying around; I mean the full-on lorebooks that tell us about the world, its history, and lore. A dialogue of Mannimarco and Galerion, for example; or a history of the Stone Nest. Because, honestly, I would like a lot more of them in general, and that would be a good place for ZOS to get into the details of the world in a way that doesn't really work in quest dialogue. That includes an in-depth book on languages. And since it's up to the player whether or not they stand around in game at a bookshelf and read the book in full, people who don't care about such things wouldn't be bothered. I know everything that gets put into the game has a cost, and I really do wonder if lorebooks are "expensive" (not just money, but time and production and workload) and that's why we've been seeing fewer of them these past years.
They'll surely take longer to write (and fact-check) than more or less random unspecific dialogue with little to none relation to lore at all.
One thing I do think is strange though is, that, according to the game credits, there's a much bigger number of writers now than in earlier years (It were 11 people for Solstice and 9 for High Isle - while the very extensive Morrowind year had only 6 people in total related to writing; Summerset had 6, base game had 5). I really wonder how it's possible that the workforce gets bigger each year yet the writing still becomes quantitatively less, and less complex, from release to release? Since you'd normally expect: "more people = more work hours = more time to write more text".Yeah, there's always the chance this was his last appearance and his ultimate fate won't ever be shown/known by us. It's too bad, really. He's a very interesting character.
I was astonished they actually let us side with him in this content. I really expected they'd give him the "villain" treatment, and that usually doesn't mean anything complex or interesting right now.I thought you had a spot all ready and waiting for it! I suggest a vault-like room, the more obstacles and traps the bettter. Not necessarily to keep others out (though that is a bonus), but mostly to keep him safely in.
Well, I actually had a room in mind, but that turned out to be a little too cluttered. The King of Worms needs something grand! You can't just stash him into some storage room like a dented rusty can of tomatoes that gets forgotten under dust and clutter after a few years.I wasn't under the impression that they killed the monkey. When we walked into the now-opened vault, they started a speech about how it was time to reclaim their property, but cut off when they saw the monkey and said, "Oh, it's dead." (Which was weird, because I could have sworn I heard it in there while I was getting the vault open). But maybe Ezhkel did kill it and I just missed that part.
Ah, right. Well, not in the vault, but later then... There's another one next to the letter you didn't find (and me neither yet, on Live), and it's implied it was killed to be placed there:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Letter_from_EzhkelI really would have preferred the version of the story where the Worm Cult is working against Molag Bal. Or if not against him, exactly, then at least without him. Wouldn't have even had to be a 'betrayal' of Bal, since Mannimarco already did that once. It would also have made Wormblood and Mannimarco seem like more powerful and fearful characters to think they were able to pull off such feats. Ah well.
We really got the most bland version of the story.
And yes, I'm aware I still need to write about the main quest.
By the way, was this thing always in the Temple of Broken Light? I strangely can't remember having come across it during the side quest back in summer, but now, during the epilogue, it was there, right in the first room when you enter the temple:
What function does it even have? It also looks strangely out of place.
Also, I somehow bookmarked this but can't remember anymore what I wanted to discuss about it...
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Triumph_of_the_Darkbinders
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how difficult it is to include expansive lorebooks in general. I know they take time to write, and they'll have to be fact/lore-checked/edited, but I wonder if there's some limit on how many they can include per chapter/dlc. I don't mean the little notes npcs are always leaving lying around; I mean the full-on lorebooks that tell us about the world, its history, and lore. A dialogue of Mannimarco and Galerion, for example; or a history of the Stone Nest. Because, honestly, I would like a lot more of them in general, and that would be a good place for ZOS to get into the details of the world in a way that doesn't really work in quest dialogue. That includes an in-depth book on languages. And since it's up to the player whether or not they stand around in game at a bookshelf and read the book in full, people who don't care about such things wouldn't be bothered. I know everything that gets put into the game has a cost, and I really do wonder if lorebooks are "expensive" (not just money, but time and production and workload) and that's why we've been seeing fewer of them these past years.
They'll surely take longer to write (and fact-check) than more or less random unspecific dialogue with little to none relation to lore at all.
One thing I do think is strange though is, that, according to the game credits, there's a much bigger number of writers now than in earlier years (It were 11 people for Solstice and 9 for High Isle - while the very extensive Morrowind year had only 6 people in total related to writing; Summerset had 6, base game had 5). I really wonder how it's possible that the workforce gets bigger each year yet the writing still becomes quantitatively less, and less complex, from release to release? Since you'd normally expect: "more people = more work hours = more time to write more text".
There is that saying/idea that too many people working on a project doesn't improve it; rather the reverse. ("Too many cooks spoil the broth" is the idiom). But I think it could be something more akin to they may have more writers, but they also have more work-load. Base game was in development for a lot longer than subsequent chapters, and I think some parts of the earlier chapters had a longer lead-time than chapters did recently. So five people could produce better output over ten years than eleven could in a year (those are just examples; obviously I don't know how long their development cycle is or how they allocate their production tasks). Also, some of the lore books in base game were literally the same as the lore books in the single player games, so in that case there would have been very little work required to put those in.Yeah, there's always the chance this was his last appearance and his ultimate fate won't ever be shown/known by us. It's too bad, really. He's a very interesting character.
I was astonished they actually let us side with him in this content. I really expected they'd give him the "villain" treatment, and that usually doesn't mean anything complex or interesting right now.
I'm really glad they did let us side with him. As much as I like Cariel, I just wasn't down with her end plan in this case.I thought you had a spot all ready and waiting for it! I suggest a vault-like room, the more obstacles and traps the bettter. Not necessarily to keep others out (though that is a bonus), but mostly to keep him safely in.
Well, I actually had a room in mind, but that turned out to be a little too cluttered. The King of Worms needs something grand! You can't just stash him into some storage room like a dented rusty can of tomatoes that gets forgotten under dust and clutter after a few years.
I probably could, so it's just as well you got your hands on him instead.I wasn't under the impression that they killed the monkey. When we walked into the now-opened vault, they started a speech about how it was time to reclaim their property, but cut off when they saw the monkey and said, "Oh, it's dead." (Which was weird, because I could have sworn I heard it in there while I was getting the vault open). But maybe Ezhkel did kill it and I just missed that part.
Ah, right. Well, not in the vault, but later then... There's another one next to the letter you didn't find (and me neither yet, on Live), and it's implied it was killed to be placed there:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Letter_from_Ezhkel
Well...reading that letter makes me not so bummed it wasn't in game. Far too familiar and assuming, and killing a monkey as some kind of memento is repulsive to me.By the way, was this thing always in the Temple of Broken Light? I strangely can't remember having come across it during the side quest back in summer, but now, during the epilogue, it was there, right in the first room when you enter the temple:
What function does it even have? It also looks strangely out of place.
Honestly, I can't say I noticed it. I made myself go straight to the objective without looking around much because I didn't want to get distracted by all the lootable urns. It sounds silly, I know, but those urns...so many urns...I wasn't going to be able to get anywhere if I acknowledged their existence.
As to what function it has: dunno. It looks like a mystery cube on top of a pedestal. Probably daedric in origin. Probably some horrible tool Meridia keeps around.Also, I somehow bookmarked this but can't remember anymore what I wanted to discuss about it...
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Triumph_of_the_Darkbinders
Did it have something to do with the Darkbinders involvement on Solstice proving that Molag Bal was all-in on the scheme (in contrast to that bit of conversation with Ezhkel)?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm really glad they did let us side with him. As much as I like Cariel, I just wasn't down with her end plan in this case.
I personally don't care much for Cariel so it was nice to meet one returning character I found interesting at least. Even if the base premise of the whole quest still seems a little strange. And normally I prefer dead characters to stay dead. Except for Mannimarco, but he has his lore reasons for that - I'd love to find out why some day, by the way. As far as we know he is no lich yet. Can his repeated return be explained alone by the fact that his soul belongs to Molag Bal and will return to Coldharbor after each death? If so, how does he manage to return to Nirn that often? Surely many souls belong to Daedric Princes due to (failed) pacts, but still, you rarely hear of anyone returning from their eternal damnation. Perhaps there's more to his special state. If so, I'd like to learn about that, hopefully with interesting and plausible background lore.Well...reading that letter makes me not so bummed it wasn't in game. Far too familiar and assuming, and killing a monkey as some kind of memento is repulsive to me.
I personally don't find it unfitting; it could be seen as emphasizing that it's a daedric being - ruthless and immoral. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether that was the intention, as I said there's several situations in this chapter where someone's death is trivialized or even treated as some kind of joke (which is also one aspect that makes it feel like the stories aren't really taken that seriously anymore, sadly). The main problem remains anyway: Why would the average player character want to cooperate with this daedra? It's just assumed we do, but considering most people probably play a more heroic type of character, it doesn't seem fitting.
The letter is still in game, by the way. I found it now. It's in the Sunport outlaws refuge, right when you enter from outside town through the southern tunnel.Honestly, I can't say I noticed it. I made myself go straight to the objective without looking around much because I didn't want to get distracted by all the lootable urns. It sounds silly, I know, but those urns...so many urns...I wasn't going to be able to get anywhere if I acknowledged their existence.
As to what function it has: dunno. It looks like a mystery cube on top of a pedestal. Probably daedric in origin. Probably some horrible tool Meridia keeps around.
I'm quite sure the furnishing/item is called Deadlands Puzzle Cube. But why is it inside a temple of Meridia and what is its purpose there in terms of gameplay? I'm quite sure if it had been there before, it had caught my attention. The color alone just feels... disharmonic at that place. So why did they add it suddenly? Why would they randomly add decoration later, most of all decoration that doesn't really look intended for a place? The more I think about it: Maybe there's some daily quest related to that? I haven't done all of those yet, after all.Did it have something to do with the Darkbinders involvement on Solstice proving that Molag Bal was all-in on the scheme (in contrast to that bit of conversation with Ezhkel)?
Nah, I saved that bookmark much earlier.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
Quick side question for you. It seems Solstice was full of returning characters you don't care for (which would make the quests less fun, I would think). Do you think you might have enjoyed some of the quests better if the npcs were ones (returning or not) that you did like? I'm just curious how much (or if) your opinion of the npcs affects your enjoyment of the quests/zone. Oh, and which npcs would you rather have had return? (Assuming that the quest was going to bring in a returning character and not present us with a new one.) Ok, so that's two questions.Even if the base premise of the whole quest still seems a little strange. And normally I prefer dead characters to stay dead. Except for Mannimarco, but he has his lore reasons for that - I'd love to find out why some day, by the way. As far as we know he is no lich yet. Can his repeated return be explained alone by the fact that his soul belongs to Molag Bal and will return to Coldharbor after each death? If so, how does he manage to return to Nirn that often? Surely many souls belong to Daedric Princes due to (failed) pacts, but still, you rarely hear of anyone returning from their eternal damnation. Perhaps there's more to his special state. If so, I'd like to learn about that, hopefully with interesting and plausible background lore.
I admit, when I first encountered the Aldiwine Citadel quest, I wasn't exactly thrilled (but I already wrote about that). However, it turned out to be one of the quests I liked the best, so kudos to the quest writers! I also prefer the dead to stay dead, but in this case I could allow for it since the Worm Cult bringing people back from the dead was the main theme (and apparently they had a super-charged way of doing it). Perhaps the npc in question was one of their test subjects. Both he and Mannimarco had been dead for about the same amount of time: maybe the cult needed a few trial runs to make sure they could get it right.
It would be nice to find out how Mannimarco accomplishes it in the later eras, though. This time there was a whole big hoopla around it, but since he's not involved with the Worm Cult later, they can't be the reason for his return down the line.Well...reading that letter makes me not so bummed it wasn't in game. Far too familiar and assuming, and killing a monkey as some kind of memento is repulsive to me.
I personally don't find it unfitting; it could be seen as emphasizing that it's a daedric being - ruthless and immoral. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether that was the intention, as I said there's several situations in this chapter where someone's death is trivialized or even treated as some kind of joke (which is also one aspect that makes it feel like the stories aren't really taken that seriously anymore, sadly). The main problem remains anyway: Why would the average player character want to cooperate with this daedra? It's just assumed we do, but considering most people probably play a more heroic type of character, it doesn't seem fitting.
Sure, it fits with Ezhkel's personality/way of doing thing. I don't have a problem with the fact it exists in the game. But I still find it repulsive and I'd rather not have my character come across it.The letter is still in game, by the way. I found it now. It's in the Sunport outlaws refuge, right when you enter from outside town through the southern tunnel.
Ah, that would explain why I never saw it. If I ever have things to fence, I just call my handy khajiit fence who isn't afraid to be seen in daylight.Honestly, I can't say I noticed it. I made myself go straight to the objective without looking around much because I didn't want to get distracted by all the lootable urns. It sounds silly, I know, but those urns...so many urns...I wasn't going to be able to get anywhere if I acknowledged their existence.
As to what function it has: dunno. It looks like a mystery cube on top of a pedestal. Probably daedric in origin. Probably some horrible tool Meridia keeps around.
I'm quite sure the furnishing/item is called Deadlands Puzzle Cube. But why is it inside a temple of Meridia and what is its purpose there in terms of gameplay? I'm quite sure if it had been there before, it had caught my attention. The color alone just feels... disharmonic at that place. So why did they add it suddenly? Why would they randomly add decoration later, most of all decoration that doesn't really look intended for a place? The more I think about it: Maybe there's some daily quest related to that? I haven't done all of those yet, after all.
It could be part of a daily, but aren't those usually delve related? (I know there's one in western that is just out on the landscape, but that's an outlier.) I haven't done all the Sunport dailies either, because I'm kind of over the whole "do thirty of each kind of daily for an achievement!" So many achievements are just filler, honestly. But, back to the puzzle cube: if it is a new asset, it might come into play at some point. Or it could have been part of the quest at one point, except then the part where we interact with it got changed/scrapped but the code for the object appearing remained. My theory is that it's just something Meridia stole from another prince and plans to corrupt/change. The Princes are always taking each others' things and trying to put their own brand on it, so this is probably that.
Well, I don't know: we did talk a little bit about the Darkbinders, I think. Or you mentioned them at some point.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Quick side question for you. It seems Solstice was full of returning characters you don't care for (which would make the quests less fun, I would think).
What I care for, in general, is an interesting narration. I don't care much about which faces (many of them replaceable anyway) I encounter in that story. The main "problem" simply is that I don't find most people interesting, neither in fiction nor in real life - so relying on faces for a story instead of presenting an interesting story itself will never be enough to interest me (that's why I keep saying that relying on "fan favorites" as a main selling point for chapters is a problem for me - and I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this; I've talked to several and they agreed: Without a good story and interesting lore, everything else is irrelevant). Out of 100 people, I might find 2 vaguely interesting, if at all. The rest is doing whatever they're doing, and that's fine, but for me it's just background noise.
What makes people interesting to me? A keen mind that leads to them having interesting things to say, a unique perspective, a remarkable worldview or uncommon insights, or an unusual background that may lead to interesting stories been told. Now most usual "fan favorites" don't meet these criteria. Which isn't surprising as many of them are written exactly the same (which is, to some degree, understandable, since they were designed without One Tamriel in mind, which means you only came across one of them for a long time, so they basically created one of them each per faction - think of all the flirty spy/assassin types, for example): They're usually the physically active type, of course super successful in whatever they're doing, they're "morally good" hero types (though in some aspects I'd personally debate that, but as their function in the narration they're obviously designed to be "the good guys"), they're mostly "flirty", so, put short: They're basically horribly bland Mary Sues. They could be randomly swapped with each other in their stories, it would make no difference. "Flirty spy-ish type" is their only character trait. For me, that's barely anything at all and doesn't make me interested in learning more about them at all (and, on top of that, I really dislike "flirty", or the way this theme seems to be understood in ESO - it's so weirdly sleazy all the time?!). They don't really have anything smart to say either. It's just big-mouthed nonsense.
Compared to that, whom do I like most? Revus - compared to the mass of npcs, he is a unique one in characterization. Sotha Sil - tragic background story, etc, we already discussed him. Divayth Fyr - also, interesting background (though most of it is based on TES3 and some lorebooks, to be honest), morally not so clear, lots of potential to elaborate on him more. That's generally a huge aspect for me that decides whether I care for a character's return or not: the potential to learn more interesting things about them. Mannimarco is such a character (though sadly they didn't make anything of it), Vanus, Naemon, Abnur Tharn. The Vanos siblings and Neramo also have potential, also for character development. I'd also be interested in learning how Valaste is doing now.
Then, there's characters between those two categories, characters whom I might not extremely like according to my personal taste, but they have uniqueness to them at least. Skordo, for example, amused me a few times during Solstice at least. I also liked the base game companions as characters, because we actually learnt about their backgrounds, their flaws, fears and way of thinking, so I could, in a way, respect them as individuals. Still I would not want to see them return too often. But they were more or less interesting, at least. It's a pity the usual "fan favorites" aren't like that (well, Fennorian is the odd one there, luckily, as he'd different in character and also has huge potential for an interesting background story).Do you think you might have enjoyed some of the quests better if the npcs were ones (returning or not) that you did like? I'm just curious how much (or if) your opinion of the npcs affects your enjoyment of the quests/zone.
If they had something interesting to say and we learnt more about them, I would have enjoyed that aspect, but it would have not influenced my opinion on the quest writing itself. For me, those are separate things. A story is either a bad or a good story. If it's a good story, it could presented to us by an old toothless Breton wearing nothing but his underpants, it's still a good story. If the story itself is bland, nothing can rescue it. Likeable characters are just a plus on top of it, if it's a good story.Oh, and which npcs would you rather have had return? (Assuming that the quest was going to bring in a returning character and not present us with a new one.)
It truly depends on the theme and location. What also matters a lot to me is that their reappearance doesn't feel random but has a good reasoning for being in the zone/story.I also prefer the dead to stay dead, but in this case I could allow for it since the Worm Cult bringing people back from the dead was the main theme (and apparently they had a super-charged way of doing it). Perhaps the npc in question was one of their test subjects. Both he and Mannimarco had been dead for about the same amount of time: maybe the cult needed a few trial runs to make sure they could get it right.
How though, without the Gift of Death? Bringing Mannimarco back physically seemed to rely on that artifact alone - or at least the story was written like that, him needing to possess Wormblood instead of being physically resurrected in his old body when that plan failed, and all that.It would be nice to find out how Mannimarco accomplishes it in the later eras, though. This time there was a whole big hoopla around it, but since he's not involved with the Worm Cult later, they can't be the reason for his return down the line.
He is. The Worm Cult just isn't worshipping Molag Bal anymore, but focusses on necromancy without any relation to daedric entities.Sure, it fits with Ezhkel's personality/way of doing thing. I don't have a problem with the fact it exists in the game. But I still find it repulsive and I'd rather not have my character come across it.
And that's the problem I see about how it is written: What would motivate the average player character to partake in that? Players might finish the quest because they want to complete the zone, sure, but what's with in-narration character motivation? I really see a problem there, several times in this zone even, where it's just assumed the player character will be fine with helping a daedra or a Dark Brotherhood cultist. In a way it's immersion-breaking because for many player characters it will probably make no sense.Ah, that would explain why I never saw it. If I ever have things to fence, I just call my handy khajiit fence who isn't afraid to be seen in daylight.
There are often some letters in the outlaws refuges and some characters there might have interesting dialogue, too so I always check them. I just missed that tunnel somehow, when it comes to the current zone.It could be part of a daily, but aren't those usually delve related? (I know there's one in western that is just out on the landscape, but that's an outlier.)
That one quest made me deem it possible - if they do it once now, why not twice?I haven't done all the Sunport dailies either, because I'm kind of over the whole "do thirty of each kind of daily for an achievement!" So many achievements are just filler, honestly.
I try to do all of them once at least, in case there's some interesting dialogue or lore. Unfortunately, it's not easy on Solstice since the old ones and new ones are muddled together. Which is another argument against releasing one zone split into different parts (another one is the chaos with the map, skyshards, achievements - it all just led to problems).But, back to the puzzle cube: if it is a new asset, it might come into play at some point. Or it could have been part of the quest at one point, except then the part where we interact with it got changed/scrapped but the code for the object appearing remained. My theory is that it's just something Meridia stole from another prince and plans to corrupt/change. The Princes are always taking each others' things and trying to put their own brand on it, so this is probably that.
All I know is that the item itself was introduced as a furnishing with the Deadlands Furnishing Folio some years ago. And I think it wasn't there in the temple when West Solstice got released. Who knows.
Not even 3 days left until the announcement stream.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Quick side question for you. It seems Solstice was full of returning characters you don't care for (which would make the quests less fun, I would think).
What I care for, in general, is an interesting narration. I don't care much about which faces (many of them replaceable anyway) I encounter in that story. The main "problem" simply is that I don't find most people interesting, neither in fiction nor in real life - so relying on faces for a story instead of presenting an interesting story itself will never be enough to interest me (that's why I keep saying that relying on "fan favorites" as a main selling point for chapters is a problem for me - and I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this; I've talked to several and they agreed: Without a good story and interesting lore, everything else is irrelevant). Out of 100 people, I might find 2 vaguely interesting, if at all. The rest is doing whatever they're doing, and that's fine, but for me it's just background noise.
I agree that they shouldn't focus so much on "fan favorites," but my perspective is that people have different favorites, and for everyone who loves Raz and wants to see him some more, there's someone who wants someone else to show back up. For me, the character and story go hand-in-hand. Shoe-horning a character into a story where they have no reason to be makes that story lesser to me, no matter how well it might be written. I keep thinking: why is this character here? And a really well-written story with bland characters doesn't work for me, either.What makes people interesting to me? A keen mind that leads to them having interesting things to say, a unique perspective, a remarkable worldview or uncommon insights, or an unusual background that may lead to interesting stories been told. Now most usual "fan favorites" don't meet these criteria. Which isn't surprising as many of them are written exactly the same (which is, to some degree, understandable, since they were designed without One Tamriel in mind, which means you only came across one of them for a long time, so they basically created one of them each per faction - think of all the flirty spy/assassin types, for example): They're usually the physically active type, of course super successful in whatever they're doing, they're "morally good" hero types (though in some aspects I'd personally debate that, but as their function in the narration they're obviously designed to be "the good guys"), they're mostly "flirty", so, put short: They're basically horribly bland Mary Sues. They could be randomly swapped with each other in their stories, it would make no difference. "Flirty spy-ish type" is their only character trait. For me, that's barely anything at all and doesn't make me interested in learning more about them at all (and, on top of that, I really dislike "flirty", or the way this theme seems to be understood in ESO - it's so weirdly sleazy all the time?!). They don't really have anything smart to say either. It's just big-mouthed nonsense.
It's true that ZOS has relied on archetypes (or stereotypes) for some of their more prominent characters, but some of them have changed over the years and, as a result, we have a lot of characters who act similarly to one another. In base game, Raz was not firtatious. He was sly, and sometimes a bit coy, but I never got the hint of anything flirtatious from him. He was devoted to being an Eye of the Queen and he treated the player character with respect and a certain camaraderie. But because people took so well to him, he suddenly became the dashing, flirting, khajiit about town that is less a specific character and more of a stereotype. And of course you know what happened with Jakarn. Interestingly enough, Darien who started out as more flirtatious and carefree developed over the years into a deeper personality. He always had a serious part to him--there were times in base game when you could talk to him about some of his deeper concerns--but he usually covered that up with bravado. So it seems to me that when ZOS tries to take characters down a more flirtatious/playful route, those characters lose what it was that made them interesting/likable. I think in general it's difficult to write romance/flirtation well (since flirting and romance are so deeply personal and people approach them in many different ways) and I think ZOS doesn't do it with much subtlety or nuance. I would be fine if they left out flirting options altogether, but I doubt they'll do that since they do seem quite popular.Compared to that, whom do I like most? Revus - compared to the mass of npcs, he is a unique one in characterization. Sotha Sil - tragic background story, etc, we already discussed him. Divayth Fyr - also, interesting background (though most of it is based on TES3 and some lorebooks, to be honest), morally not so clear, lots of potential to elaborate on him more. That's generally a huge aspect for me that decides whether I care for a character's return or not: the potential to learn more interesting things about them. Mannimarco is such a character (though sadly they didn't make anything of it), Vanus, Naemon, Abnur Tharn. The Vanos siblings and Neramo also have potential, also for character development. I'd also be interested in learning how Valaste is doing now.
Those are all characters I really like and wouldn't mind seeing more of. Well, actually, except for Mannimarco, but only because I think we've seen all he has to offer ESO. That is, all they're going to show us about him. Oh, and I could take or leave Neramo. Sometimes I find him interesting; other times I find him too much of the Altmer stereotype.Then, there's characters between those two categories, characters whom I might not extremely like according to my personal taste, but they have uniqueness to them at least. Skordo, for example, amused me a few times during Solstice at least. I also liked the base game companions as characters, because we actually learnt about their backgrounds, their flaws, fears and way of thinking, so I could, in a way, respect them as individuals. Still I would not want to see them return too often. But they were more or less interesting, at least. It's a pity the usual "fan favorites" aren't like that (well, Fennorian is the odd one there, luckily, as he'd different in character and also has huge potential for an interesting background story).
I think we've done enough in game with Lyris and Sai--let them stay happily together, doing their own thing off screen. I would like some resolution to Abnur Tharn's fate; I really enjoyed his character. Skordo I enjoy because he's only ever Skordo: solid, dependable Skordo. As for Fennorian, I would love to see him (and Revus, too) brought back with really interesting, deep stories that have nothing to do with being quippy or flirty or constantly cracking jokes. A little bit of appropriate humor goes a long way, but it seems lately that there's an over-reliance on humor and jokes and silly situations. This isn't to say I want some grim-dark edge-lord world where no one ever smiles, because I do like some of the light-hearted npcs and situations in Tamriel, but sometimes it feels like the humor is getting forced in where it doesn't belong.Do you think you might have enjoyed some of the quests better if the npcs were ones (returning or not) that you did like? I'm just curious how much (or if) your opinion of the npcs affects your enjoyment of the quests/zone.
If they had something interesting to say and we learnt more about them, I would have enjoyed that aspect, but it would have not influenced my opinion on the quest writing itself. For me, those are separate things. A story is either a bad or a good story. If it's a good story, it could presented to us by an old toothless Breton wearing nothing but his underpants, it's still a good story. If the story itself is bland, nothing can rescue it. Likeable characters are just a plus on top of it, if it's a good story.
I do think a likable character can improve a less well-written story. As I said above, for me character and story go hand-in hand. However, now I want to experience that good story presented by that toothless old underpants-clad Breton. I'd like to know if his appearance would be distracting to me to the point where I couldn't focus entirely on the story.I also prefer the dead to stay dead, but in this case I could allow for it since the Worm Cult bringing people back from the dead was the main theme (and apparently they had a super-charged way of doing it). Perhaps the npc in question was one of their test subjects. Both he and Mannimarco had been dead for about the same amount of time: maybe the cult needed a few trial runs to make sure they could get it right.
How though, without the Gift of Death? Bringing Mannimarco back physically seemed to rely on that artifact alone - or at least the story was written like that, him needing to possess Wormblood instead of being physically resurrected in his old body when that plan failed, and all that.
Right, right. I forgot about the Gift of Death. Probably because it was nothing more than a mcguffin to facilitate Darien's return. Well, I've decided that the Gift of Death was just going to make Wormblood's task of resurrecting Mannimarco easier. A quick switch of one soul for another. Otherwise, why would he have started the ritual? Why would he have even needed the ritual? We saw how easily the thing went down with Gabrielle. So, in my mind, the Cult was capable of bringing back Coldharbor-bound souls; it just took a lot of power and resources and whatever. The Gift of Death was merely a shortcut they weren't able to use in the end. I never understood why Mannimarco had to zip into Wormblood's body when his own body was right there, either.It would be nice to find out how Mannimarco accomplishes it in the later eras, though. This time there was a whole big hoopla around it, but since he's not involved with the Worm Cult later, they can't be the reason for his return down the line.
He is. The Worm Cult just isn't worshipping Molag Bal anymore, but focusses on necromancy without any relation to daedric entities.
Ah, my mistake. I don't remember Mannimarco from playing the games way back when, and I thought you had said he wasn't with the cult anymore. So maybe it's not so interesting to me after all.Sure, it fits with Ezhkel's personality/way of doing thing. I don't have a problem with the fact it exists in the game. But I still find it repulsive and I'd rather not have my character come across it.
And that's the problem I see about how it is written: What would motivate the average player character to partake in that? Players might finish the quest because they want to complete the zone, sure, but what's with in-narration character motivation? I really see a problem there, several times in this zone even, where it's just assumed the player character will be fine with helping a daedra or a Dark Brotherhood cultist. In a way it's immersion-breaking because for many player characters it will probably make no sense.
Because it's an MMO, the player's choice usually only comes down to: do the quest or don't do the quest. I would really like it if they could implement a way for players to do the quest differently--actual choice. That way people don't miss out on a quest (and, in Solstice, there weren't that many of them to begin with) but they don't need to act against their character's principles. But that's a pipe dream of mine. It would require so much more work from the development team, and I don't even know how many people pay that much attention to their character's motivations. I often find myself trying to find a way to justify why my character would do a quest. In the case of Ezhkel, it was actually pretty easy: once my character found out Ezhkel wanted to spite Molag Bal, he was all in, since my character is always up for ways to thwart and spite Daedric Princes.
Why not indeed.I haven't done all the Sunport dailies either, because I'm kind of over the whole "do thirty of each kind of daily for an achievement!" So many achievements are just filler, honestly.
I try to do all of them once at least, in case there's some interesting dialogue or lore. Unfortunately, it's not easy on Solstice since the old ones and new ones are muddled together. Which is another argument against releasing one zone split into different parts (another one is the chaos with the map, skyshards, achievements - it all just led to problems).
I do like to do them once because of the initial quest, but I haven't even tried looking for the new ones because they're mixed up with the old ones, and I just don't feel like checking every day to see if there's one I haven't done yet.But, back to the puzzle cube: if it is a new asset, it might come into play at some point. Or it could have been part of the quest at one point, except then the part where we interact with it got changed/scrapped but the code for the object appearing remained. My theory is that it's just something Meridia stole from another prince and plans to corrupt/change. The Princes are always taking each others' things and trying to put their own brand on it, so this is probably that.
All I know is that the item itself was introduced as a furnishing with the Deadlands Furnishing Folio some years ago. And I think it wasn't there in the temple when West Solstice got released. Who knows.
Well, I don't remember it either time. It'll just have to be a mystery thing, I guess.Not even 3 days left until the announcement stream.
I am very curious to watch it--I think I'll actually try to watch it live this time instead of just waiting for the VOD.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that they shouldn't focus so much on "fan favorites," but my perspective is that people have different favorites, and for everyone who loves Raz and wants to see him some more, there's someone who wants someone else to show back up.
From my point of view that's part of the problem of relying on a few "favorites" so much: Not everyone (I guess probably not even most people) will like all of them, so if they become the main focus of a story (instead of having a good story as the focus, and having them parcipate somehow in it when it fits) is that the fans of that character might enjoy it, but it gets boring for anyone else. Even if they get a bit varied and write "fan favorite focussed" stories about 6 different people in a chapter - same problem: If a single character is the main focus, some will love it, others who don't care for that character will find it boring. So in the end over half of the content might end up boring for every player. The main focus should be a good story, then it truly doesn't matter for me who shows up there (as long as the person isn't too obnoxious; but there are many npcs I don't care for much but who I still find completely okay if they show up in a context where it makes sense). That's why the increasing mentions of "fan-favorite" this and that in their news articles makes me wary about future stories.It's true that ZOS has relied on archetypes (or stereotypes) for some of their more prominent characters, but some of them have changed over the years and, as a result, we have a lot of characters who act similarly to one another. In base game, Raz was not firtatious. He was sly, and sometimes a bit coy, but I never got the hint of anything flirtatious from him. He was devoted to being an Eye of the Queen and he treated the player character with respect and a certain camaraderie. But because people took so well to him, he suddenly became the dashing, flirting, khajiit about town that is less a specific character and more of a stereotype.
In the German translation he always made some weird comments on female npcs (which is a reason I don't like him much; that and the constant boasting), which then made it no surprise at all when we got that story about the two or three sisters he was cheating on the in Elsweyr chapter in that side quest about his hometown. Though I do agree that his behavior felt at least a bit more subtle in the earlier years than it's now.Interestingly enough, Darien who started out as more flirtatious and carefree developed over the years into a deeper personality. He always had a serious part to him--there were times in base game when you could talk to him about some of his deeper concerns--but he usually covered that up with bravado.
Indeed in his case, his characterisation became a bit more interesting in the new chapter than it was before, but his earlier characterisation just completely voided my interest in him, so I don't care anymore for his fate. Or at least it would take a huge lot of interesting turns of events to incite my interest. I sadly don't believe the current writing will be able to do that.So it seems to me that when ZOS tries to take characters down a more flirtatious/playful route, those characters lose what it was that made them interesting/likable.
I don't even think it's necessarily the flirting. Many became less complex and more clichéd over the years, flirty or not. Which is slightly strange, considering each return could actually deepen their characterization and tell us more things about their background and show us more different aspects of them. But instead they become shallower each time. Weird.I think in general it's difficult to write romance/flirtation well (since flirting and romance are so deeply personal and people approach them in many different ways) and I think ZOS doesn't do it with much subtlety or nuance.
The strangest thing about it, to me, is that it's always the same. Of course I know they can't write 5 different flirt options every time to cater to different speech styles, but it could at least vary according to the person adressed - the aim of flirting is to appeal to the person spoken to, after all. And the "one style fits all" approach there seems strange. Then again, the "targets" are all same-y anyway. You can't flirt with Jeetra, or Skordo, or Vanus - who would (ignoring for a moment whether they'd generally appreciate it or not) surely find very different comments or compliments pleasing (and honestly, just for curiosity's sake I'd imagine flirting with them, in a style that fits them, to be much more interesting than that stupid innuendo type flirting we get all the time now).Oh, and I could take or leave Neramo. Sometimes I find him interesting; other times I find him too much of the Altmer stereotype.
I don't mind haughty men. In fact I find them amusing at times.As for Fennorian, I would love to see him (and Revus, too) brought back with really interesting, deep stories that have nothing to do with being quippy or flirty or constantly cracking jokes. A little bit of appropriate humor goes a long way, but it seems lately that there's an over-reliance on humor and jokes and silly situations. This isn't to say I want some grim-dark edge-lord world where no one ever smiles, because I do like some of the light-hearted npcs and situations in Tamriel, but sometimes it feels like the humor is getting forced in where it doesn't belong.
It has become very obvious lately, sadly. Also, while humour was always a part of the stories, it was somehow a different and often more subtle kind of humour. Even Mannimarco had his slightly funny aspects - when getting angry about his idiot cultists or sitting down and writing that awful un-rhyming epic poem (in verse!) about himself.However, now I want to experience that good story presented by that toothless old underpants-clad Breton. I'd like to know if his appearance would be distracting to me to the point where I couldn't focus entirely on the story.
An insane old beggar with interesting information, astonishing insights, or maybe divine visions. Why not? I think a good story could be made of that.I never understood why Mannimarco had to zip into Wormblood's body when his own body was right there, either.
Well, maybe because it was dead. Missing the spark of life. Unanimated. Just putting a soul into it might not help if there's no life force present in the physical body.Ah, my mistake. I don't remember Mannimarco from playing the games way back when, and I thought you had said he wasn't with the cult anymore. So maybe it's not so interesting to me after all.
Nah, he still has his cult. Singing and dancing for him and such.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I agree that they shouldn't focus so much on "fan favorites," but my perspective is that people have different favorites, and for everyone who loves Raz and wants to see him some more, there's someone who wants someone else to show back up.
From my point of view that's part of the problem of relying on a few "favorites" so much: Not everyone (I guess probably not even most people) will like all of them, so if they become the main focus of a story (instead of having a good story as the focus, and having them parcipate somehow in it when it fits) is that the fans of that character might enjoy it, but it gets boring for anyone else. Even if they get a bit varied and write "fan favorite focussed" stories about 6 different people in a chapter - same problem: If a single character is the main focus, some will love it, others who don't care for that character will find it boring. So in the end over half of the content might end up boring for every player. The main focus should be a good story, then it truly doesn't matter for me who shows up there (as long as the person isn't too obnoxious; but there are many npcs I don't care for much but who I still find completely okay if they show up in a context where it makes sense). That's why the increasing mentions of "fan-favorite" this and that in their news articles makes me wary about future stories.
Fan-service does get old, for sure, and has its limitations. I don't mind when they bring back popular characters for a role in the new story, but I don't think that should be the goal of the story. Unfortunately, I think it has been.It's true that ZOS has relied on archetypes (or stereotypes) for some of their more prominent characters, but some of them have changed over the years and, as a result, we have a lot of characters who act similarly to one another. In base game, Raz was not firtatious. He was sly, and sometimes a bit coy, but I never got the hint of anything flirtatious from him. He was devoted to being an Eye of the Queen and he treated the player character with respect and a certain camaraderie. But because people took so well to him, he suddenly became the dashing, flirting, khajiit about town that is less a specific character and more of a stereotype.
In the German translation he always made some weird comments on female npcs (which is a reason I don't like him much; that and the constant boasting), which then made it no surprise at all when we got that story about the two or three sisters he was cheating on the in Elsweyr chapter in that side quest about his hometown. Though I do agree that his behavior felt at least a bit more subtle in the earlier years than it's now.
Interesting how a translation could present a different view of an npc. I don't recall him making weird comments about female npcs, and I was a bit unsettled by his slutty ways when we found out about them in Elsweyr. I thought it was a wasted opportunity to show Raz at home. It kind of hinted at something more interesting, with his family considering him to be somewhat of a disgrace because he didn't help their farm prosper, and him having to keep his real work secret. But that all got overshadowed by the whole, "He had three girlfriends and made them all promises he never intended to keep!" That is reprehensible behavior, but I got the feeling we were just supposed to shake our heads affectionately and say, "Oh, that Raz." I don't mind him having such a characteristic, by the way; but I do mind that our characters were not allowed to find it unpleasant, and that it didn't lead to more interesting dialogue with him or choices within the quest.So it seems to me that when ZOS tries to take characters down a more flirtatious/playful route, those characters lose what it was that made them interesting/likable.
I don't even think it's necessarily the flirting. Many became less complex and more clichéd over the years, flirty or not. Which is slightly strange, considering each return could actually deepen their characterization and tell us more things about their background and show us more different aspects of them. But instead they become shallower each time. Weird.
I think a lot of players want them to come back as the same character they enjoyed the first time around, so that somewhat hampers the ability to write them as having growth or deeper character. Technically, Jakarn's change could be seen as character growth--just not in a way we enjoyed. But the character did change. Anyway, the main reason I singled out the flirting is because that seems to be the character trait ZOS has focused on adding to the characters, and I think it's doing those npcs a disservice.I think in general it's difficult to write romance/flirtation well (since flirting and romance are so deeply personal and people approach them in many different ways) and I think ZOS doesn't do it with much subtlety or nuance.
The strangest thing about it, to me, is that it's always the same. Of course I know they can't write 5 different flirt options every time to cater to different speech styles, but it could at least vary according to the person adressed - the aim of flirting is to appeal to the person spoken to, after all. And the "one style fits all" approach there seems strange. Then again, the "targets" are all same-y anyway. You can't flirt with Jeetra, or Skordo, or Vanus - who would (ignoring for a moment whether they'd generally appreciate it or not) surely find very different comments or compliments pleasing (and honestly, just for curiosity's sake I'd imagine flirting with them, in a style that fits them, to be much more interesting than that stupid innuendo type flirting we get all the time now).
The style of flirting they choose kind of goes along with the "hit the player character over the head with the plot" writing. Basically, make it so obvious they can't fail to notice it.
As a woman who has been talked down to by dismissive, haughty men plenty throughout my life, I find them irritating more often than not.However, now I want to experience that good story presented by that toothless old underpants-clad Breton. I'd like to know if his appearance would be distracting to me to the point where I couldn't focus entirely on the story.
An insane old beggar with interesting information, astonishing insights, or maybe divine visions. Why not? I think a good story could be made of that.
Well, you've already embellished the character. Before he was just "an old toothless Breton wearing nothing but his underpants" and now he's "an insane old beggar with interesting information, astonishing insights, or maybe divine visions." Perhaps a good story could be made of that, but I think insanity and divine visions are used too often, usually together. Plus, I don't like the depiction of insanity as something that is just quirky, or a pathway to the secrets of the universe. I'd rather get my astonishing insights from a learned scholar who has been actively and purposely studying the myteries of the world without going insane.
I guess. It's never been made clear to me exactly how necromancy works in this game. Usually it's just people reanimating the dead to have thralls. But then there are free-roaming zombies all over Glenumbra, so I don't know. Was Angof's power that great that he could just cause zombies to rise wherever there were corpses? The Daggerfall Covenant zones are also rife with spirits/ghosts wanting us to do favors for them. If there's ever a place where the dead don't rest, it's the Breton lands.
0