The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I wasn't interested in the style pages for the anniversary event, so I didn't partake of that particular grind.
I mostly wanted Sunna'rah, Sil's staff, for my main who prefers to carry Dwemer or CWC style when ever he doesn't want to be recognizable as a Telvanni at first glance. Not that it was any less extravagant.
I understand the appeal of having our characters carry iconic weapons or be dressed in impressive gear; it just so happened that none of those offered during the anniversary appealed to me. On another note, I wonder what the average Tamriel citizen thinks when they see our characters carrying around, say, the Staff of Worms. Or Sunna'rah. It's possible most of them don't know the legacy of the staff, but for those who do know it, I can imagine them thinking, "Hey, isn't that Sotha Sil's staff? How did that person get it?" Depending on the person, they might even be bold enough to inquire of us directly.
I do like the CWC style armor, except I wish there was an option to not have the robot joints in the arms. Sorry: automaton. Not every Clockwork disciple replaces their limbs, after all.agree it wasn't well done of ZOS, and it's at times like that I'm glad I'm not a collector or someone who gets caught up in the fear of missing out. It's not good game design, really. It's easy game design and a quick thing to toss in for people to do. When endeavors first arrived in the game, they were interesting enough in a "this is something different" way, but that soon faded. Same with Golden Pursuits. I get why they have these systems, but neither one of them does very much for me.
I think these tasks were introduced as a reply to players asking for "more things to do in game" - but while I see how these task lists might increase overall playtime, I don't think this is was people wished for. I'd surely be happy about "more things to do", but I'd think of new, fun and meaningful things, not more grind or just new task lists of the same old things. But I'm generally not a fan of repetativeness. I also only rarely play Archive - it was fun while it was new, but at some point, it's just always the same. I'd rather explore new things - new lore, new places, new stories.
Sometimes I think of all the hours that go into creating the content I like: stories and quests and exploration. Then I think of how quickly players get through it--even those like me who dawdle. So I do understand why Infinite Archive exists, and why they put in systems like pursuits and endeavors--it's easy content that people can do while ZOS works on the time-intensive content that gets gobbled up.I think the only time we've seen them in game was Summerset, and they didn't make a very good impression there.
There was also one in TES: Redguard, which was released in the late 90's and isn't part of the TES main series. It was an attempt at a different genre, you had to play in 3rd person view and you had a set character. I prefer the rpgs, but it actually wasn't that bad.
And I think there was also some Sload statue(?) somewhere in Skyrim. And I think Master Aryon in TES3 was studying the Sload language. Or at least he had such a book and some written notes on his desk. Not sure if that was better or worse than the romance novels he kept hidden on a tall wardrobe in his bedroom.
It's such a classic trope of rpgs that romance novels are something to be ashamed of. I'd definitely say it's worse that he kept the novels hidden--he should fully own his interests!I do think they could do a lot more to indicate the passage of time in general, and with quests like these specifically. The switch from despair to confidence (in Skordo's case) is bizarre. The switch from grief to business as usual (in Prince Azah's case) is unbelievable. I know our characters are supposed to be inspiring, but that stretches it a bit too much.
Makes me wonder whether the intention was to make us feel awesome for being able to accomplish that. But for that, the situation would have needed to be at least somewhat believable.
Maybe that was the intention, but I'd rather be able to choose what my character feels. I'm also not one of those people who get annoyed when npcs aren't friendly to me. I think a range of reactions is more realistic. I would like more realistic reactions, taking into account more aspects of our character than just, "Hey, you're the one who did all those things!" It really bummed me out when my Altmer went to Summerset for the first time and was treated basically as one of the outsiders. Sure, there were some conversations where the fact that he's Altmer was recognized, but he was very clearly meant to be an outsider all the same. Same with my Dunmer in Morrowind.The more I think of it, the more it seems that the Great Mage was just a casualty of the new player response system. They wanted to showcase it, and so were looking for places to put it, and thought it would fit there. For some people, it likely does fit. If they don't like the Great Mage and have never liked him and don't want to work with him, they might get a real kick out of insulting him. I think their intention was to give the players a variety of response options and allow for those who want to play people who aren't nice or agreeable a way to do so.
But you have to be more or less nice towards everyone else, you can't generally play a rude character either. If for every friendly dialogue option towards one character there would be also an unfriendly one in the same situation (or vice versa) it would feel differently to me. But since it's so selective, it feels like they're predefining for us what our character might feel towards a specific npc. Yes, I know, we already discussed that; and I still hope there will be more depth and variety to the dialogue choice system in the future. I'd also like to see more realistic reactions by the npc we're talking with. Right now, it doesn't really make a difference most of the time and after the current conversation, everything is back to normal again anyway.
I agree the system in general needs some work. If I recall correctly, one of the reasons they implemented it was to give players the choice to not always be "the nice guy." Obviously that's only going to apply going forward, because to go back and implement it in all previous content would be a massive undertaking. I think once the system has been around for longer, the instance of being rude to the Great Mage won't stand out quite so much. Yes, the lack of lasting npc reaction to our choice was something I noticed early on, too: I hope they refine that aspect of it. I don't mean the npc needs to be forever annoyed with us if we choose a rude option, for example, but it should at least last for the duration of the current conversation.and I don't know how he greets people with whom he hasn't conquered the trials of Coldharbour. Maybe in that situation it doesn't feel as out of place.
I never tested it. But then I'd also prefer getting different dialogue options depending on that.
The more I think of it, there often seem to be incongruencies in different dialogues based on exactly such things. If some specifics of our character get recognized at all (things like whether we've met someone before, but also aspects like character race or vampirism or whether we joined a faction or not), it's always just the beginning of a conversation, or maybe some extra dialogue branch that becomes available, but the rest of the dialogue is always the same for everyone. Which then leads to things like that weird beginning of the prologue with Azah, that starts with "Hi guild comrade" (that's the beginning acknowledging our guild membership), but from the next dialogue part on, it's the same for everyone again, so we're treated like a random stranger once more (who then gets asked whether we're willing to let him hire us for a task).
Yeah, that is a bit of a problem, isn't it? It's surface-level recognition of our characters, and that isn't satisfying. It's been like that for a long time, too, which makes me think that adding in really robust variations to the dialogue just isn't feasible.For the specific flirting option you reference, it feels like because there was a flirting option with that character earlier, and since he was the one chosen to have the flirt options, they figured it was time to put another one in. I'm not saying it works, or it fits the situation; more that it has a kind of formula feel to it. As in: there had to be X amount of flirting options, and since it had been Y amount of time since one had been presented, another one needed to show up. (I don't really think they write to formula like that, but that is how that particular chain of responses feels to me.)
The main problem I have with that is really (well, apart from the innuendo I'm not a fan of) the circumstances. We're told we need to hurry, lives are endangered, it's urgent - so why would we choose to flirt in that situation? Why not after that task is completed? Or why not at the end of the whole story? Would make more sense to me to flirt during a break or after the threat is over (for the time being), and not while we're just pursuing some baddie who might destroy the whole place and kill everyone in a few seconds.
I'm with you in that it's a very odd place to put it. That's why I said it seemed more formulaic to me than anything else. It's like the context wasn't taken into consideration; they just said: well, we need another flirting option, so put it here. It's possible they were going for that "the world may end, so what do I have to lose" kind of approach; the idea that someone would flirt in such a situation because if they didn't do it then, they might never have another chance. I will say, though, that since even Raz, who flirts all the time, thinks it's not the appropriate place, it also seems like they were setting the player up for a fall. (I didn't choose the flirting option, but I read here on the forums that's how Raz reacts.)I have seen a certain type of modernization of speech and habits when it comes to fantasy writing. I think it's part stylistic choice and part appeal to modern audiences.
If it's a new work, I don't think it's that bad - every author can choose for themselves how to define their fictional society including its language, and I can choose not to read it if I don't like that style. What I dislike if it's a longer running series which already has a distinctive style, and then suddenly there are big, maybe even contradictive, changes to that. Both when it comes to language as well as when it comes to the long established lore.
I wonder whether a lot of people enjoy those modernisms in fantasy stories that are supposed to take place in a pre-modern time? Because if I choose to immerse in a story that takes place in a time and location that's different than the modern real world, I really don't want to be reminded on this modern real world, but I want something different. That's the main reason why I enjoy fantasy fiction, after all: Exploring a different world and different cultures. It doesn't even matter whether I like those cultures or what I might think of their morals if they were real, it's about exploring something new. I personally don't enjoy fantasy works that are basically just like the current real world, just with elves or orcs and exotic place names (I do think it could be interesting to mix medieval fantasy with a different historical era, or even fantasy and sci-fi, but I'd want it to show me something different than what I experience in real life every day anyway). That doesn't mean that topics some people might label as "modern" can't come up (most of them aren't even modern from my point of view) - I'm fine with that, but I'd want to these topics presented in a way that fits the fictional world and the habits of the fictional cultures present in game. Otherwise it just feels out of place and immersion-breaking somehow. Also, a new, creative, lore-appropriate take on a topic might be much more interesting anyway.
Many people like the familiar, so the modernisms in otherwise new/different settings are an anchor for them, especially if so much else about the story and setting is so different from what they know. I've also seen author dedication to a created world backfire when it comes to language--in a sci-fi setting at least--a future post-apocalypse world where the setting was still Earth (specifically the U.S.) but language had changed and they used wildly different words for common things. In that case it didn't make sense, because it hadn't been that much time since the apocalypse incident; in fact, there was still someone alive who had lived pre-apocalypse. I just couldn't believe that in such a short space of time, all knowledge of the word "pants" would have disappeared.So let's say he's been kept prisoner for three months, in varying places and conditions.
Maybe three between his capture in the prologue and the ending of Part 1. Now another few months while we wait for the troops to arrive. Which sounds like a more tedious endeavour than locating some island on a map. So that's probably already over half a year in total.
All right. We'll say that by the time the Writhing Wall event starts, he has been a prisoner for between five and six months.At some point he goes from being the prisoner of Wormblood to being the prisoner of Mannimarco. When we free him, if he shows no change at all...I will be disappointed. I guess I should have said "if" we free him, since I really don't know that we will.
Whether we free him or not at the end of the current story, we'll surely see him again at some point, alive and conscious (I mean, they can't just tell us "Yeah, he died in captivity" and never let us see him again, can they?). I'm already curious about how he'll behave.
You know, I hadn't considered the idea that we might not even see him again. That would be too cruel!Now if Wormblood might have been Soulshriven Mannimarco, I'm wondering how long he kept his true identity a secret in front of Vanny. And how much interaction was there?
I'd also wonder if the Great Mage suspected Wormblood was Soul Shriven Mannimarco, no matter how well Mannimarco tried to hide it.I truly hope there will be something meaningful and interesting that we learn of and that becomes official part of lore. The situation we have right now is much too interesting to brush it off with "Well, they never met". I also wouldn't find it believable if they didn't meet now - I'm sure talking to Vanny is one of the first things Mannimarco wants to do, and how probable is it that he might have been able to escape just now right before Mannimarco's arrival? That would feel very artificial and constructed.
It would be quite annoying if they choose to keep with the whole, "Oh, they didn't meet," theme. The Great Mage has to be the most valuable prisoner the Worm Cult has, so even if there was no personal history between Mannimarco and Vanny, you'd think the leader of the cult would interact with such a prisoner on some level. When you add in that personal history, and whatever feelings Mannimarco has for Vanny (and at this point I couldn't say what they might be, though I could speculate a lot about it; too much, probably) a meeting is inevitable.Well, the bones that were once buried in my backyard certainly do move about a fair bit! (My house is old enough that, at one time, the residents would just bury their garbage--back before city garbage pick-up was a thing and back when household garbage consisted mostly of broken crockery and animal bones from all the meat they ate.)
But they've probably not been very careful when burying those bones that remained from their food, but just dug a hole and threw them in.
Reminds me of a house in my neighbourhood (well, a bit further away) that had been abandoned, and at some point, after a heavy rainfall, bones surfaced in the garden, since over the years the rain washed the soil away. I've been there and it was a really bizarre sight: The garden was a huge swampy puddle of mud, and then there were those big bones sticking out from the ground. It then turned out the inhabitants (what ever might have happened to them) were equestrians and had buried their horses in their garden when one died.
That would have been something to see! And no, I doubt the garbage burying was done with any particular care. Particularly in winter, with all the rain.You should! Probably be better received than Mannimarco's treatise that basically goes: corpses are everywhere, idiot!
While they might not actually be found everywhere, II still think it's a rather strange question, since almost every village will (or should, whether we see it in game or not) have a cemetery (or something similar) at least. And indeed people die all the time, and they especially did in a medieval society with wars and diseases and all kinds of life-threatening things going on. So while corpses aren't just lying around everywhere, you'd at least know where to search for one.
It's funny, by the way, how for a long time in the real world, natural mummification was seen as a kind of "miracle" or at least a a kind of supernatural sign.
Reminds me of a local knight now; who was accused of a crime and swore that he was innocent and if he was lying, his corpse should never rot. And it didn't. So that poor guy ended up with a glass lid for his coffin and lots of townsfolk gawking at him because everyone wanted to see that evil knight who was cursed for his false oath. They still gawk at him today, centuries later.
Ah, poor possibly criminal knight! I find it rather amusing that the idea that if he was lying his corpse should never rot was supposed to be some kind of, I don't know, guarantee? Or, not that, but effective defense. Just the different mindset of the times, I know, and clearly it meant quite a lot to the people of the time, hence the display.I'd actually like to see more like that in game. No, not cursed knights in glass coffins - but all kinds of local legends and unique places that people might visit. We already have that in some regions, but I think more could be done. In reality, sometimes every small village (or just locations like forests - everything, really) might have at least some kind of myth or folk tale related to it. And there might be special places to visit; Tamrielic temples could have some specific reliquiary or some kind of artifact that people would want to visit. We also know from the other TES games that pilgrimage as a concept exists in Tamriel. I'd just like to see more unique things in towns that might make the visit interesting and that could give a bit more background lore.
That would be cool! They do represent pilgrimages a little bit in ESO. In the Rift, there's a sick guy in Ivarstead you help cure--he was on a pilgrimage to the Throat of the World and got caught in the avalanche that keeps the players from getting all the way up those thousand steps. I think there's other similar pilgrimage quests scattered throughout the game, too. But I don't think we ever actually get to visit the sites of the various pilgrimages, which is a shame.It's an interesting question: how easily manipulated are the Daedric Princes? I'm sure it would vary from one to the next, but since Molag Bal seems very sure of himself and his place in the cosmos, not to mention has very little imagination, I can't see him being swayed by a mere mortal's attempts. That isn't to say that mere mortal wouldn't try. And since Mannimarco did promise revenge for all slights, great and small, you can be sure Molag Bal is on that list.
It would be a very interesting thing to see (although I somehow don't think we ever will), and I'd also find it believable for Mannimarco to design some plan like that. Not just rhetorical manipulation, but some kind of trickery. Wouldn't be the first time, after all.
I really do wonder if there will be any mention or inclusion of Molag Bal in this, the sequel to the base game main story. I could definitely see Mannimarco trying something to get at his (probably) least favored Daedric Prince.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I understand the appeal of having our characters carry iconic weapons or be dressed in impressive gear; it just so happened that none of those offered during the anniversary appealed to me. On another note, I wonder what the average Tamriel citizen thinks when they see our characters carrying around, say, the Staff of Worms. Or Sunna'rah. It's possible most of them don't know the legacy of the staff, but for those who do know it, I can imagine them thinking, "Hey, isn't that Sotha Sil's staff? How did that person get it?" Depending on the person, they might even be bold enough to inquire of us directly.
Actually I'm not a big fan of offering unique items from very central npcs to everyone; it's the same situation as with teleportation dolmens and Molag Bal costumes: If you see them everywhere, in the most mundane places and situations, they lose their uniqueness (And sometimes even their meaning - originally, hearing the dolmen sound was a signal; now you can't be sure anymore whether there's actually a dolmen somewhere or just some guy porting to their home or to who knows where). That's also the reason I'd never let my character wear Sil's robe and/or helmet that were in the crown store some months ago. It's just too clearly something that belongs to Sil, and I also don't think it would be plausible that some randos just run around dressed up like that (and in Dunmer regions, that would probably earn them a hefty fine from the guards, too).
Generally, I'm somehow more open to player characters carrying some special artifact if it fits their roleplay, and not because it's the new fancy fashionable thing to have right now. Indicators for me would be that the character has an actual name and looks like a person instead of just a cluster of the most recent most flashy crownstore items. Not saying people can't play this game in any way they want - it's none of my business after all - just being honest that it leaves a different impression to me whether I see someone with an appropriate name and clothing/armor that looks like it belongs to Tamriel, vs. some character with a name that clearly sounds like a gamer tag and who is dressed in random neon colors. If people think I'm a snob for that: Fine with me.
In my case, it's also roleplay-related that I can justify my main character carrying a staff that looks like Sunna'rah at times. It fits his background lore. Also, I think that Sunna'rah isn't too flashy. According to lore, CWC is a mystery also in the current era. The entrance is supposed to be unknown, people can't just enter and leave how they like - at least that's the official lore, even if we don't really get that feeling since player characters can just use a wayshrine to travel there at any time. But according to lore, most people will never see that place. They'll probably not see Sil in person either, because he doesn't leave his city often. Unless they're scholars, they most probably haven't heard of that staff either, let alone seen it. So if they see Sunna'rah, they'd probably assume it's just some Dwemer staff, and the person carrying it is either a scholar studying the Dwemer, of maybe just some adventurer showing off fancy clutter he collected in some Dwemer ruin. Maybe occasionally, once a year or so (if at all), some specialised scholar would see it and remember having seen a drawing of it in some book, and then proceed to ask my character whether that's supposed to be a replica of Sunna'rah. And that's a conversation he'd be fine with, I think.
With the Staff of Worms, I guess it would be a little different. There are more text sources that describe it, and generally, it doesn't exactly look friendly (no matter whether one knows what it is or not). Unless maybe it's currently Witches Fest, the average Tamrielian would probably not appreciate seeing that thing and any individual carrying something like that (Or maybe they don't care, the Companions didn't care for it either back then
).I do like the CWC style armor, except I wish there was an option to not have the robot joints in the arms. Sorry: automaton. Not every Clockwork disciple replaces their limbs, after all.
I wish the prostheses were seperate. Not only to be able to use the outfit without them, but also to combine them with other outfits. One doesn't necessarily want to wear the same robe all the time just because one lost one's arms or legs, after all. Especially while travelling Tamriel, it might be more practical in some situations to cover them up a bit more, too.Sometimes I think of all the hours that go into creating the content I like: stories and quests and exploration. Then I think of how quickly players get through it--even those like me who dawdle. So I do understand why Infinite Archive exists, and why they put in systems like pursuits and endeavors--it's easy content that people can do while ZOS works on the time-intensive content that gets gobbled up.
I understand that story content is more difficult, costly and time-consuming to produce than some other types of content, since you also need writers, voice actors, etc. Unfortunately I just don't think that most other things can really be a satisfying replacement for quest content for players who focus on questing. Other things just don't appeal the same way. If there's new lore to it, it might keep me busy - that's why I liked the introduction of the antiquity system. If there's no new lore or almost none, I might look at it once, but it can't really keep my interest for long.It's such a classic trope of rpgs that romance novels are something to be ashamed of. I'd definitely say it's worse that he kept the novels hidden--he should fully own his interests!
Is it usually this kind of romance novel?
It's funny, by the way, that the author's name is given as "Vojne". No matter whether in Slovenian or in Swedish, it doesn't carry positive associations
But maybe that was the intention, considering the story.Yeah, that is a bit of a problem, isn't it? It's surface-level recognition of our characters, and that isn't satisfying. It's been like that for a long time, too, which makes me think that adding in really robust variations to the dialogue just isn't feasible.
Technically, it must be possible, but of course it's probably a lot of work to write at least two different versions of a whole dialogue. But the way it's now, where you clearly notice which parts are supposed to be the "original dialogue" and which bits are clearly inserted (in case some predefined condition is met) - I'm not sure whether that's really better than if they kept the whole thing more vague so it does fit everyone, to be honest. I do appreciate the attempt to recognize our character's race, factions or vampirism, for example, and it's something I usually like in games, but the execution right now just feels too incongruent, and in some dialogues, it even leads to logic mistakes ("Hi guild mate! ... May I hire you, stranger?") that really don't help with immersion.It's possible they were going for that "the world may end, so what do I have to lose" kind of approach; the idea that someone would flirt in such a situation because if they didn't do it then, they might never have another chance.
It's because of such individuals that the world will end - "heroes" ignoring urgency and danger to have weird flirty conversations insteadI will say, though, that since even Raz, who flirts all the time, thinks it's not the appropriate place, it also seems like they were setting the player up for a fall. (I didn't choose the flirting option, but I read here on the forums that's how Raz reacts.)
But still, they could have chosen a different situation and reasoning for his rejection.I've also seen author dedication to a created world backfire when it comes to language--in a sci-fi setting at least--a future post-apocalypse world where the setting was still Earth (specifically the U.S.) but language had changed and they used wildly different words for common things. In that case it didn't make sense, because it hadn't been that much time since the apocalypse incident; in fact, there was still someone alive who had lived pre-apocalypse. I just couldn't believe that in such a short space of time, all knowledge of the word "pants" would have disappeared.
Now, that sounds funny, but maybe a bit too unrealistic, especially since "pants" is a very common word. It's a bit different when it comes to regional terms, loanwords or slang. In my region there were many French loan words because there was a lot of immigration from France from the 17th century on, and these words were still used here in the first half of the 20th century. Some are still understood, but most aren't anymore. While they were still normal in the 1920's, someone born in the 1950's would probably still have known all their meanings, but not used them normally in conversation anymore. And most people about my age (born in the 1980's) don't even know them anymore at all (except for very few that became normal words in standard German).
And then, there's another case - where words became obsolete because the thing they describe doesn't exist anymore. There are gravestones in this region, not even that old but just from the 1930's, where the profession of the deceased person is inscribed, and I know they often confuse people now, because they don't know the term or the profession anymore ("What was that person? Is that a job? What kind of job was that?" - Although I do appreciate of course if people show curiosity; that's better than people who just shrug and ignore it). And I want to be honest, out of personal interest I know a lot of those terms, but I also don't know all of them. I'm not sure which terms might still be common in English, but in German, most people would not know what a milliner does, or what the special terms were for people who made ropes, or bed linens, or all those different professions somehow related to whaling in the early Industrial Age. If there's no reason to use a word, people will forget it. Makes me wonder what else might be forgotten over the decades, including concepts, but that's a different topic.
But of course I agree that fantasy or sci-fi can't be that alien when it comes to concepts and terms that the average reader/player isn't able to understand the story anymore. There has to be at least some reference to reality so the audience can make sense of what's going on. I just think that there's a tendency lately to be too safe when it comes to that, and to avoid bigger differences to the real world or more daring, unusual concepts much too often.I'd also wonder if the Great Mage suspected Wormblood was Soul Shriven Mannimarco, no matter how well Mannimarco tried to hide it.
Maybe he has some weird mannerisms.It would be quite annoying if they choose to keep with the whole, "Oh, they didn't meet," theme. The Great Mage has to be the most valuable prisoner the Worm Cult has, so even if there was no personal history between Mannimarco and Vanny, you'd think the leader of the cult would interact with such a prisoner on some level. When you add in that personal history, and whatever feelings Mannimarco has for Vanny (and at this point I couldn't say what they might be, though I could speculate a lot about it; too much, probably) a meeting is inevitable.
We know Mannimarco is obsessive when it comes to Vanny. No matter what exactly he might feel, the obsession is a part of his lore (leading to remarkable behavior like raising a 100 ft statue of him or stealing his corpse and keeping it for centuries). So having him as a prisoner but not wanting to see him would make no sense at all.That would be cool! They do represent pilgrimages a little bit in ESO. In the Rift, there's a sick guy in Ivarstead you help cure--he was on a pilgrimage to the Throat of the World and got caught in the avalanche that keeps the players from getting all the way up those thousand steps. I think there's other similar pilgrimage quests scattered throughout the game, too. But I don't think we ever actually get to visit the sites of the various pilgrimages, which is a shame.
The topic itself was actually present in most TES games. In Skyrim, we could come across pilgrim npcs who were on their way to that grove where we would fetch a sapling to replace the dying Gildergreen tree in Whiterun in some quest. Oblivion had a pilgrimage as part of the Knights Of The Nine DLC. In Morrowind we had the Pilgrimages of the Seven Graces where we had to visit different Tribunal shrines on Vvardenfell (And also came across one relic of importance for the Tribunal Temple: th Ash Mask of Vivec in the temple of Gnisis). That one is actually also present in ESO, but not as a quest, only as an achievement where you have to visit those shrines and pray at them.I really do wonder if there will be any mention or inclusion of Molag Bal in this, the sequel to the base game main story. I could definitely see Mannimarco trying something to get at his (probably) least favored Daedric Prince.
I'd be surprised if there was nothing about Molag Bal, especially since the Worm Cult still claims to worship him, at least before Mannimarco's return. I'm just not sure what exactly will happen - it's clear that there's a certain conflict now.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I understand the appeal of having our characters carry iconic weapons or be dressed in impressive gear; it just so happened that none of those offered during the anniversary appealed to me. On another note, I wonder what the average Tamriel citizen thinks when they see our characters carrying around, say, the Staff of Worms. Or Sunna'rah. It's possible most of them don't know the legacy of the staff, but for those who do know it, I can imagine them thinking, "Hey, isn't that Sotha Sil's staff? How did that person get it?" Depending on the person, they might even be bold enough to inquire of us directly.
Actually I'm not a big fan of offering unique items from very central npcs to everyone; it's the same situation as with teleportation dolmens and Molag Bal costumes: If you see them everywhere, in the most mundane places and situations, they lose their uniqueness (And sometimes even their meaning - originally, hearing the dolmen sound was a signal; now you can't be sure anymore whether there's actually a dolmen somewhere or just some guy porting to their home or to who knows where). That's also the reason I'd never let my character wear Sil's robe and/or helmet that were in the crown store some months ago. It's just too clearly something that belongs to Sil, and I also don't think it would be plausible that some randos just run around dressed up like that (and in Dunmer regions, that would probably earn them a hefty fine from the guards, too).
Generally, I'm somehow more open to player characters carrying some special artifact if it fits their roleplay, and not because it's the new fancy fashionable thing to have right now. Indicators for me would be that the character has an actual name and looks like a person instead of just a cluster of the most recent most flashy crownstore items. Not saying people can't play this game in any way they want - it's none of my business after all - just being honest that it leaves a different impression to me whether I see someone with an appropriate name and clothing/armor that looks like it belongs to Tamriel, vs. some character with a name that clearly sounds like a gamer tag and who is dressed in random neon colors. If people think I'm a snob for that: Fine with me.
I don't think you're a snob for wanting the Elder Scrolls world to look like the Elder Scrolls world. There was a thread recently about how so many crown store cosmetics are just too flashy and immersion breaking: that it's getting to be too much. ZOS Kevin posted in it, saying that feedback would be passed along, but also saying that when designing cosmetics, the team has to keep in mind all the different tastes of the players. So while it seems to me that there's too much flash and bang going on, for others it's probably a good amount, and for others not even enough. There was some pretty good discussion in the thread overall (along with the usual complement of nonsense posts), but it can't be denied that the game launched with a certain visual style that is getting harder to find.In my case, it's also roleplay-related that I can justify my main character carrying a staff that looks like Sunna'rah at times. It fits his background lore. Also, I think that Sunna'rah isn't too flashy. According to lore, CWC is a mystery also in the current era. The entrance is supposed to be unknown, people can't just enter and leave how they like - at least that's the official lore, even if we don't really get that feeling since player characters can just use a wayshrine to travel there at any time. But according to lore, most people will never see that place. They'll probably not see Sil in person either, because he doesn't leave his city often. Unless they're scholars, they most probably haven't heard of that staff either, let alone seen it. So if they see Sunna'rah, they'd probably assume it's just some Dwemer staff, and the person carrying it is either a scholar studying the Dwemer, of maybe just some adventurer showing off fancy clutter he collected in some Dwemer ruin. Maybe occasionally, once a year or so (if at all), some specialised scholar would see it and remember having seen a drawing of it in some book, and then proceed to ask my character whether that's supposed to be a replica of Sunna'rah. And that's a conversation he'd be fine with, I think.
With the Staff of Worms, I guess it would be a little different. There are more text sources that describe it, and generally, it doesn't exactly look friendly (no matter whether one knows what it is or not). Unless maybe it's currently Witches Fest, the average Tamrielian would probably not appreciate seeing that thing and any individual carrying something like that (Or maybe they don't care, the Companions didn't care for it either back then ).
Do the companions comment on the Staff of Worms replica? I know some of them will sometimes comment on various pets people might have, either positively or negatively, and I think that's a nice touch.
I'm not saying there's no way a person could reasonably have some of these artifacts; I was just thinking if they are very famous they might cause a few eyebrows to raise here and there.I do like the CWC style armor, except I wish there was an option to not have the robot joints in the arms. Sorry: automaton. Not every Clockwork disciple replaces their limbs, after all.
I wish the prostheses were seperate. Not only to be able to use the outfit without them, but also to combine them with other outfits. One doesn't necessarily want to wear the same robe all the time just because one lost one's arms or legs, after all. Especially while travelling Tamriel, it might be more practical in some situations to cover them up a bit more, too.
I wonder what the reaction in, say, Davon's Watch would be if a Clockwork Apostle, with many replaced limbs, showed up. (I know it's highly unlikely lore-wise). It would probably be somewhat different than if that Apostle showed up in Daggerfall or Vulkhel Guard. Or even taking the apostle out of the equation: what would be the average reaction to automaton limbs? I would assume most people aren't even aware it's possible to replace limbs like that.Sometimes I think of all the hours that go into creating the content I like: stories and quests and exploration. Then I think of how quickly players get through it--even those like me who dawdle. So I do understand why Infinite Archive exists, and why they put in systems like pursuits and endeavors--it's easy content that people can do while ZOS works on the time-intensive content that gets gobbled up.
I understand that story content is more difficult, costly and time-consuming to produce than some other types of content, since you also need writers, voice actors, etc. Unfortunately I just don't think that most other things can really be a satisfying replacement for quest content for players who focus on questing. Other things just don't appeal the same way. If there's new lore to it, it might keep me busy - that's why I liked the introduction of the antiquity system. If there's no new lore or almost none, I might look at it once, but it can't really keep my interest for long.
The antiquity system is one of my favorites because of the lore. I think they did a really good job with the Antiquarian Circle personalities and the way they discuss the artifacts we send them. They make new entries for all new content, too, which must be a fairly big undertaking. That's a chunk of work they didn't have to do when creating the first few chapters.
Anyway, I agree there's no adequate substitute for quest content. I wasn't classing any of the things I mentioned as meant to replace quest content; they're literally just something to do while I wait for the good content. Or don't do, as the case more often is.It's such a classic trope of rpgs that romance novels are something to be ashamed of. I'd definitely say it's worse that he kept the novels hidden--he should fully own his interests!
Is it usually this kind of romance novel?
It's funny, by the way, that the author's name is given as "Vojne". No matter whether in Slovenian or in Swedish, it doesn't carry positive associations But maybe that was the intention, considering the story.
So, based on just that information, I would not call that a romance novel. But still, if that's the kind of reading he's into, he shouldn't hide it away.Yeah, that is a bit of a problem, isn't it? It's surface-level recognition of our characters, and that isn't satisfying. It's been like that for a long time, too, which makes me think that adding in really robust variations to the dialogue just isn't feasible.
Technically, it must be possible, but of course it's probably a lot of work to write at least two different versions of a whole dialogue. But the way it's now, where you clearly notice which parts are supposed to be the "original dialogue" and which bits are clearly inserted (in case some predefined condition is met) - I'm not sure whether that's really better than if they kept the whole thing more vague so it does fit everyone, to be honest. I do appreciate the attempt to recognize our character's race, factions or vampirism, for example, and it's something I usually like in games, but the execution right now just feels too incongruent, and in some dialogues, it even leads to logic mistakes ("Hi guild mate! ... May I hire you, stranger?") that really don't help with immersion.
I wasn't thinking of the technical aspects so much as the budgetary ones. I wonder how difficult it would be to clean up that particular example. I would think one added voice line would do it. If you're known to the Fighters Guild, they could have a line that says something like, "Can we count on you to help the guild?" Because I would think they wouldn't necessarily hire a guild mate. They might give whatever stipend a guild member usually receives for services rendered, but it wouldn't be the same as hiring someone from outside the guild. There's also the same disconnect on Solstice, with everyone reminding us how well the Stirk Fellowship pays. Um, we're a member of the Fellowship. We shouldn't be getting the sales pitch over and over again. Also, petty side note: they don't pay that well.It's possible they were going for that "the world may end, so what do I have to lose" kind of approach; the idea that someone would flirt in such a situation because if they didn't do it then, they might never have another chance.
It's because of such individuals that the world will end - "heroes" ignoring urgency and danger to have weird flirty conversations instead
Lol! Well, swashbucklers are going to swashbuckle!I will say, though, that since even Raz, who flirts all the time, thinks it's not the appropriate place, it also seems like they were setting the player up for a fall. (I didn't choose the flirting option, but I read here on the forums that's how Raz reacts.)
But still, they could have chosen a different situation and reasoning for his rejection.
Not if they wanted to leave the idea open that he might like to flirt under different circumstances. The fall I meant was merely the time and place for flirting, not the utter rejection from Raz.I've also seen author dedication to a created world backfire when it comes to language--in a sci-fi setting at least--a future post-apocalypse world where the setting was still Earth (specifically the U.S.) but language had changed and they used wildly different words for common things. In that case it didn't make sense, because it hadn't been that much time since the apocalypse incident; in fact, there was still someone alive who had lived pre-apocalypse. I just couldn't believe that in such a short space of time, all knowledge of the word "pants" would have disappeared.
Now, that sounds funny, but maybe a bit too unrealistic, especially since "pants" is a very common word. It's a bit different when it comes to regional terms, loanwords or slang. In my region there were many French loan words because there was a lot of immigration from France from the 17th century on, and these words were still used here in the first half of the 20th century. Some are still understood, but most aren't anymore. While they were still normal in the 1920's, someone born in the 1950's would probably still have known all their meanings, but not used them normally in conversation anymore. And most people about my age (born in the 1980's) don't even know them anymore at all (except for very few that became normal words in standard German).
And then, there's another case - where words became obsolete because the thing they describe doesn't exist anymore. There are gravestones in this region, not even that old but just from the 1930's, where the profession of the deceased person is inscribed, and I know they often confuse people now, because they don't know the term or the profession anymore ("What was that person? Is that a job? What kind of job was that?" - Although I do appreciate of course if people show curiosity; that's better than people who just shrug and ignore it). And I want to be honest, out of personal interest I know a lot of those terms, but I also don't know all of them. I'm not sure which terms might still be common in English, but in German, most people would not know what a milliner does, or what the special terms were for people who made ropes, or bed linens, or all those different professions somehow related to whaling in the early Industrial Age. If there's no reason to use a word, people will forget it. Makes me wonder what else might be forgotten over the decades, including concepts, but that's a different topic.
Is milliner really that antiquated? I suppose it is. I routinely read books that have milliners in them, so I come across that word more often than most.
I've studied language and how it changes over time, so a book set in the future where they still speak English but the language has shifted would make sense to me. But losing common words over the course of one generation? No, that doesn't fit. Especially since, in this particular world, they were clearly still teaching the written form of the language, because characters could read and write, so it wasn't as if society was passing on knowledge only orally. You want to know what they called their pants? "Gaps." Want to know why? Because, in this post-apocalyptic world, they had to scavenge for clothes in the broken down remains of malls, and they got a bunch of clothes from a place called "The Gap." They could read the sign, but they couldn't connect it to the name of the store. Instead, it must refer to the name of one type of clothing contained in the store. The overall story wasn't horrible, by the way, but some of the details were just nonsense.
I think it's a pretty safe guess that Mannimarco has a few distinct mannerisms that he's unable to hide.I really do wonder if there will be any mention or inclusion of Molag Bal in this, the sequel to the base game main story. I could definitely see Mannimarco trying something to get at his (probably) least favored Daedric Prince.
I'd be surprised if there was nothing about Molag Bal, especially since the Worm Cult still claims to worship him, at least before Mannimarco's return. I'm just not sure what exactly will happen - it's clear that there's a certain conflict now.
I'm still not sure why the Worm Cult worships him, considering what he did to their leader. Eh, maybe it's just self-preservation on their part, and now that Mannimarco's back, they don't have to pretend anymore. It would be nice to see that conflict play out in game, but not if they have Molag Bal show up just to yoink Mannimarco back to Coldharbour, so he can go back on his slab and then the world state is preserved. I would dislike that very much.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think you're a snob for wanting the Elder Scrolls world to look like the Elder Scrolls world. There was a thread recently about how so many crown store cosmetics are just too flashy and immersion breaking: that it's getting to be too much. ZOS Kevin posted in it, saying that feedback would be passed along, but also saying that when designing cosmetics, the team has to keep in mind all the different tastes of the players. So while it seems to me that there's too much flash and bang going on, for others it's probably a good amount, and for others not even enough. There was some pretty good discussion in the thread overall (along with the usual complement of nonsense posts), but it can't be denied that the game launched with a certain visual style that is getting harder to find.
The problem I see is that if you try to cater to everyone, you might end up with a mishmash that in the end pleases no one. Of course opinions on this may differ, but I personally think that for immersion, a consistent art style is important. And TES has always been on the more realistic side and attracted people who don't like the flashy, colorful comic-like art style of some other fantasy games. In my case, I would even say that I care more for a consistent style and atmosphere than about the actual style itself. Unless it's something I really can't stand (or that strains my eyes too much or gives me migraines), I'd also play something that's not completely in my favorite style, if the thing does the style it's supposed to have really well. What doesn't work for me is some jarring mix without any clear artistic direction being recognizable. I also hate flashy effects, but that's more due to the migraine risk. I'd be fine with a toggle for such effects, so people who enjoy it can see it, and people who suffer from migraines (or just don't like it) don't have to.Do the companions comment on the Staff of Worms replica? I know some of them will sometimes comment on various pets people might have, either positively or negatively, and I think that's a nice touch.
I haven't tried it yet, but since it's no object or collection item, but an outfit style you can use through the outfit workbench thing (whatever it's called in English), I'm not sure whether companions are even able to recognize what exactly you're wearing. I do like that they comment on things from the collection menu like pets or polymorphs and would find it fun if there was more like that.I'm not saying there's no way a person could reasonably have some of these artifacts; I was just thinking if they are very famous they might cause a few eyebrows to raise here and there.
While these items were central in ESO's stories, I'm not sure whether the average commoner would really know much about them (or know at all that they exist). The Staff of Worms? Sure, since it comes up in books quite often, including detailed descriptions of how it looks like. Nerevar's sword? Dunmer will know about it, but who else? Sunna'rah is even more obscure. Maybe it would come up in a longer religious biography of Sil published by the Tribunal Temple, but it's no official attribute for him (different to Vivec's spear Muatra that comes up quite often in Temple teachings); it's just a staff he once created for experimental reasons. And what average person does even know what the Ul'vor Staff is? They'd probably stare at it because the style looks so peculiar, but would they know what it is? I don't think so. How familiar would the average person be with Sload artifacts?I wonder what the reaction in, say, Davon's Watch would be if a Clockwork Apostle, with many replaced limbs, showed up. (I know it's highly unlikely lore-wise). It would probably be somewhat different than if that Apostle showed up in Daggerfall or Vulkhel Guard.
I can only guess, of course, but since the average Dunmer knows that Sil has artificial limbs from both Temple writings as well as religious art, they'd probably assume a connection between the Apostle (especially if it's a fellow Dunmer) and Sil rather fastly. I think their reaction might be mostly interested and friendly, even if they might find it a little strange at first glance. In other parts of the world, I wouldn't be so sure about that (I mean, of course they could just be curious and fascinated - but then again, people often tend to be weird if they see something they don't understand or find too unusual...) and would rather try to hide the prostheses with some wide-sleeved robe and gloves (or armor) if I don't want too much attention.Or even taking the apostle out of the equation: what would be the average reaction to automaton limbs? I would assume most people aren't even aware it's possible to replace limbs like that.
Even then, I'd think Dunmer might be alienated less by it since it's not a completely foreign concept to them due to their religion (and society - I guess they're used to a lot of strange things/projects from the Telvanni).The antiquity system is one of my favorites because of the lore. I think they did a really good job with the Antiquarian Circle personalities and the way they discuss the artifacts we send them.
Yes, I find those really well-written.So, based on just that information, I would not call that a romance novel.
Oh, I find that very romantic (more romantic than the nonsense people read nowadays anyway)! Name one thing that's more romantic than longing for someone so much that you try to raise them from the deadI wasn't thinking of the technical aspects so much as the budgetary ones. I wonder how difficult it would be to clean up that particular example. I would think one added voice line would do it. If you're known to the Fighters Guild, they could have a line that says something like, "Can we count on you to help the guild?" Because I would think they wouldn't necessarily hire a guild mate. They might give whatever stipend a guild member usually receives for services rendered, but it wouldn't be the same as hiring someone from outside the guild.
I think I'd just reword the whole thing in a more neutral way that leaves open whether the player character is a guild member or not. I think something as simple as "We need your help - can we count on you?" would be absolutely fine.There's also the same disconnect on Solstice, with everyone reminding us how well the Stirk Fellowship pays. Um, we're a member of the Fellowship. We shouldn't be getting the sales pitch over and over again. Also, petty side note: they don't pay that well.
Yes, that seems to be exactly the same issue.Not if they wanted to leave the idea open that he might like to flirt under different circumstances. The fall I meant was merely the time and place for flirting, not the utter rejection from Raz.
Isn't "maybe later" the overly polite form for "no, thank you"?Is milliner really that antiquated? I suppose it is. I routinely read books that have milliners in them, so I come across that word more often than most.
Well, I don't know. How many people still wear hats nowadays, and how many buy them from a milliner instead of some department/clothing store (or online shop)? And how many call the milliner "milliner" and not just "hat-maker"?I've studied language and how it changes over time, so a book set in the future where they still speak English but the language has shifted would make sense to me. But losing common words over the course of one generation? No, that doesn't fit. Especially since, in this particular world, they were clearly still teaching the written form of the language, because characters could read and write, so it wasn't as if society was passing on knowledge only orally. You want to know what they called their pants? "Gaps." Want to know why? Because, in this post-apocalyptic world, they had to scavenge for clothes in the broken down remains of malls
Maybe they should have searched for sewing machines and fabric instead, then they could have called their pants what ever they wished, for example... leg tubes.and they got a bunch of clothes from a place called "The Gap." They could read the sign, but they couldn't connect it to the name of the store. Instead, it must refer to the name of one type of clothing contained in the store.
What was the cause of the great catastrophe? Brain-eating amoebae? Or maybe memory-erasing cosmic radiation?The overall story wasn't horrible, by the way, but some of the details were just nonsense.
So far it sounds rather strange.I think it's a pretty safe guess that Mannimarco has a few distinct mannerisms that he's unable to hide.
Most of all he'd probably also have some unique magical signature/aura that's unhideable (and that Vanny might still remember, even if it's been a long time since they last met); unless Vanny can only sense that when it's needed for a story, like in the latest prologue, of course. Which actually also was inconsistent - he was able to recognize Skordo's sword because of whatever magical emission of Skordo was still lingering on it, but he wasn't able to recognize fake Skordo as fake just some moments later.I'm still not sure why the Worm Cult worships him, considering what he did to their leader. Eh, maybe it's just self-preservation on their part, and now that Mannimarco's back, they don't have to pretend anymore.
That's probably the only reasonable explanation, but would it even be probable that they continued the cult under such circumstances? Would Molag Bal have punished them if they had just disbanded after Mannimarco was defeated? I'd think Molag Bal has better things to do than hunting down hundreds of idiot cultists.
And where was that daedric harvester even coming from? Why would a daedra join a cult of mortals? How would it ever get into some leading role there? Was the cult taken over by daedra after Mannimarco died? So what would he be doing with that now that he's back? I hope it will be clarified, since right now, it all seems a little unclear.It would be nice to see that conflict play out in game, but not if they have Molag Bal show up just to yoink Mannimarco back to Coldharbour, so he can go back on his slab and then the world state is preserved. I would dislike that very much.
Since they finally confirmed that time in Tamriel was progressing with this story, I hope we'll get more than the usual "At the end of the story, everything is back to how things were before" ending this time.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I don't think you're a snob for wanting the Elder Scrolls world to look like the Elder Scrolls world. There was a thread recently about how so many crown store cosmetics are just too flashy and immersion breaking: that it's getting to be too much. ZOS Kevin posted in it, saying that feedback would be passed along, but also saying that when designing cosmetics, the team has to keep in mind all the different tastes of the players. So while it seems to me that there's too much flash and bang going on, for others it's probably a good amount, and for others not even enough. There was some pretty good discussion in the thread overall (along with the usual complement of nonsense posts), but it can't be denied that the game launched with a certain visual style that is getting harder to find.
The problem I see is that if you try to cater to everyone, you might end up with a mishmash that in the end pleases no one. Of course opinions on this may differ, but I personally think that for immersion, a consistent art style is important. And TES has always been on the more realistic side and attracted people who don't like the flashy, colorful comic-like art style of some other fantasy games. In my case, I would even say that I care more for a consistent style and atmosphere than about the actual style itself. Unless it's something I really can't stand (or that strains my eyes too much or gives me migraines), I'd also play something that's not completely in my favorite style, if the thing does the style it's supposed to have really well. What doesn't work for me is some jarring mix without any clear artistic direction being recognizable. I also hate flashy effects, but that's more due to the migraine risk. I'd be fine with a toggle for such effects, so people who enjoy it can see it, and people who suffer from migraines (or just don't like it) don't have to.
I've gotten pretty good at ignoring the flashier things in game. Every now and then something will catch my eye and make me think, "Wow, that's too much," but mostly I can tune it out. You know what bothers me the most for immersion? The insane speeds at which player characters run. For some reason that hyper motion (and it's everywhere, all the time) bothers me. I'm not talking about a quick sprint to reach an objective. I'm talking about non-stop always speed running everywhere. I think it looks ridiculous. But that's base game. I know it's silly to be that bothered by it, and yet I still am. *shrug*I'm not saying there's no way a person could reasonably have some of these artifacts; I was just thinking if they are very famous they might cause a few eyebrows to raise here and there.
While these items were central in ESO's stories, I'm not sure whether the average commoner would really know much about them (or know at all that they exist). The Staff of Worms? Sure, since it comes up in books quite often, including detailed descriptions of how it looks like. Nerevar's sword? Dunmer will know about it, but who else? Sunna'rah is even more obscure. Maybe it would come up in a longer religious biography of Sil published by the Tribunal Temple, but it's no official attribute for him (different to Vivec's spear Muatra that comes up quite often in Temple teachings); it's just a staff he once created for experimental reasons. And what average person does even know what the Ul'vor Staff is? They'd probably stare at it because the style looks so peculiar, but would they know what it is? I don't think so. How familiar would the average person be with Sload artifacts?
Well, I did say if they are very famous and might cause a few eyebrows to raise. I never thought the average yokel would be able to identify them.Or even taking the apostle out of the equation: what would be the average reaction to automaton limbs? I would assume most people aren't even aware it's possible to replace limbs like that.
Even then, I'd think Dunmer might be alienated less by it since it's not a completely foreign concept to them due to their religion (and society - I guess they're used to a lot of strange things/projects from the Telvanni).
I agree the Dunmer wouldn't be too bothered by it. But they're only one part of the population. Probably the most likely reaction would be people wondering how anyone in Tamriel ever lost a limb to begin with, much less needed a working replacement, considering these things just don't happen to npcs.
Is that what happens in that book? Well, I wouldn't call that romantic. I'd call it obsessive. Since all I knew of the book was that one line description: a conjurer's tragic infatuation with a dead woman it came across as a bit psychotic to me. I also don't think it's romance if it's one-sided. But to each their own. People like what they like.
I take it more as ZOS wanting to keep the option for future flirting open without having to write any kind of actual relationship between the player character and Raz. I would be really surprised if it ever went beyond rather tame flirting with npcs. Companions might be a different story, but I really can't see them writing a romantic relationship between the player character and a quest npc.
But in real life, between real people, yes, I would take "maybe later" as "no, thank you."Is milliner really that antiquated? I suppose it is. I routinely read books that have milliners in them, so I come across that word more often than most.
Well, I don't know. How many people still wear hats nowadays, and how many buy them from a milliner instead of some department/clothing store (or online shop)? And how many call the milliner "milliner" and not just "hat-maker"?
Well, these books aren't set in modern times, and there is no department store or online shop, and they definitely refer to the artisans as milliner. As for how many people still wear hats nowadays, lots of people do.and they got a bunch of clothes from a place called "The Gap." They could read the sign, but they couldn't connect it to the name of the store. Instead, it must refer to the name of one type of clothing contained in the store.
What was the cause of the great catastrophe? Brain-eating amoebae? Or maybe memory-erasing cosmic radiation?
I think it was a virus that bore a close resemblance to a sort of vampirism. But it was some time ago that I read it, so I can't be positive that was it (though certain details clearly stuck in my mind). It was back when self-publishing was first becoming a big thing, and I was interested in what might be available. Most of the ones I read were ok, but all of them could have done with an editorial pass by someone other than the author.I think it's a pretty safe guess that Mannimarco has a few distinct mannerisms that he's unable to hide.
Most of all he'd probably also have some unique magical signature/aura that's unhideable (and that Vanny might still remember, even if it's been a long time since they last met); unless Vanny can only sense that when it's needed for a story, like in the latest prologue, of course. Which actually also was inconsistent - he was able to recognize Skordo's sword because of whatever magical emission of Skordo was still lingering on it, but he wasn't able to recognize fake Skordo as fake just some moments later.
Wait, Vanny recognized Skordo's sword by magical residue or whatever? I thought he just recognized it by style. Or maybe he noticed something unique to it earlier. Like it had a particularly decorative hilt or whatever. I mean, I didn't pay much attention to it, so I wouldn't have recognized it, but I'm not the Great Mage with keen senses and acute observation.
Ahem, but to the point: I bet Mannimarco does have some sort of magical signature that clings to him even through and beyond death.I'm still not sure why the Worm Cult worships him, considering what he did to their leader. Eh, maybe it's just self-preservation on their part, and now that Mannimarco's back, they don't have to pretend anymore.
That's probably the only reasonable explanation, but would it even be probable that they continued the cult under such circumstances? Would Molag Bal have punished them if they had just disbanded after Mannimarco was defeated? I'd think Molag Bal has better things to do than hunting down hundreds of idiot cultists.
And where was that daedric harvester even coming from? Why would a daedra join a cult of mortals? How would it ever get into some leading role there? Was the cult taken over by daedra after Mannimarco died? So what would he be doing with that now that he's back? I hope it will be clarified, since right now, it all seems a little unclear.
I was hoping it would be clarified in the prologue, because all along my big question to "the Worm Cult is back!" has always been, "How?" So, yes, some explanation is warranted, I think.It would be nice to see that conflict play out in game, but not if they have Molag Bal show up just to yoink Mannimarco back to Coldharbour, so he can go back on his slab and then the world state is preserved. I would dislike that very much.
Since they finally confirmed that time in Tamriel was progressing with this story, I hope we'll get more than the usual "At the end of the story, everything is back to how things were before" ending this time.
I hope so, too.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've gotten pretty good at ignoring the flashier things in game. Every now and then something will catch my eye and make me think, "Wow, that's too much," but mostly I can tune it out.
There were some mounts now that appeared in an explosion that obscured your whole screen - as a bystander, not as the actual user of those things. I think that's too much, it's actually disruptive for other players. Could be used for trolling, too.You know what bothers me the most for immersion? The insane speeds at which player characters run. For some reason that hyper motion (and it's everywhere, all the time) bothers me. I'm not talking about a quick sprint to reach an objective. I'm talking about non-stop always speed running everywhere. I think it looks ridiculous. But that's base game. I know it's silly to be that bothered by it, and yet I still am. *shrug*
I'm already glad if they're not jumping all the time.I agree the Dunmer wouldn't be too bothered by it. But they're only one part of the population. Probably the most likely reaction would be people wondering how anyone in Tamriel ever lost a limb to begin with, much less needed a working replacement, considering these things just don't happen to npcs.
Maybe that's some "great hero" thing; only the great hero is worthy enough of losing some limbs.
Although actually, as a soul shriven, it makes even less sense, since our body should just re-emerge in its original form, including all limbs, at latest after another death.Is that what happens in that book? Well, I wouldn't call that romantic. I'd call it obsessive. Since all I knew of the book was that one line description: a conjurer's tragic infatuation with a dead woman it came across as a bit psychotic to me.
What's love if not madness?I also don't think it's romance if it's one-sided.
Oh, it's not one-sided. It's also another proof that no one actually seems to stay dead here.I take it more as ZOS wanting to keep the option for future flirting open without having to write any kind of actual relationship between the player character and Raz. I would be really surprised if it ever went beyond rather tame flirting with npcs. Companions might be a different story, but I really can't see them writing a romantic relationship between the player character and a quest npc.
I agree, although I'm not sure whether the romantic relationship to companions might be just as tame or superficial then. Maybe like in Skyrim where they cooked you a meal once a day, and that's it.Well, these books aren't set in modern times, and there is no department store or online shop, and they definitely refer to the artisans as milliner.
The question was how many people still know the term. Not everyone reads novels set in historical times.As for how many people still wear hats nowadays, lots of people do.
But less than, let's say about 70 years ago, let alone 100 years, where everyone, without exception, owned at least one.Wait, Vanny recognized Skordo's sword by magical residue or whatever? I thought he just recognized it by style. Or maybe he noticed something unique to it earlier. Like it had a particularly decorative hilt or whatever. I mean, I didn't pay much attention to it, so I wouldn't have recognized it, but I'm not the Great Mage with keen senses and acute observation.
Yes, he said something about some lingering aura he could sense. I don't think something like that ever came up before - or ever again after that situation. And with fake Skordo, the topic seemed to have been forgotten again.Ahem, but to the point: I bet Mannimarco does have some sort of magical signature that clings to him even through and beyond death.
I guess everyone would have one. And I can't think of anything that could remove it from an individual (Unless maybe the person has been dead for a while, if it's related to life force - but then it would probably form again in case of resurrection). So that would be a method to clearly identify any person.I was hoping it would be clarified in the prologue, because all along my big question to "the Worm Cult is back!" has always been, "How?" So, yes, some explanation is warranted, I think.
There are so many open questions this time, somehow I'm not optimistic there will even be enough time in Part 2 to answer even just half of them. To answer all, a much longer story would be needed.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I've gotten pretty good at ignoring the flashier things in game. Every now and then something will catch my eye and make me think, "Wow, that's too much," but mostly I can tune it out.
There were some mounts now that appeared in an explosion that obscured your whole screen - as a bystander, not as the actual user of those things. I think that's too much, it's actually disruptive for other players. Could be used for trolling, too.
Thankfully I haven't seen anything that obtrusive. Does sound a bit much, really.You know what bothers me the most for immersion? The insane speeds at which player characters run. For some reason that hyper motion (and it's everywhere, all the time) bothers me. I'm not talking about a quick sprint to reach an objective. I'm talking about non-stop always speed running everywhere. I think it looks ridiculous. But that's base game. I know it's silly to be that bothered by it, and yet I still am. *shrug*
I'm already glad if they're not jumping all the time.
Haha, yeah, that too.I agree the Dunmer wouldn't be too bothered by it. But they're only one part of the population. Probably the most likely reaction would be people wondering how anyone in Tamriel ever lost a limb to begin with, much less needed a working replacement, considering these things just don't happen to npcs.
Maybe that's some "great hero" thing; only the great hero is worthy enough of losing some limbs.
Such an honor!Although actually, as a soul shriven, it makes even less sense, since our body should just re-emerge in its original form, including all limbs, at latest after another death.
I know for game mechanics, we can still rez/reform after death, but lore wise, would any of that change after we got our soul back?
Um...happiness and devotion? That's my experience, anyway.
Zombie love, eh? Guess that isn't too different from vampire love.I take it more as ZOS wanting to keep the option for future flirting open without having to write any kind of actual relationship between the player character and Raz. I would be really surprised if it ever went beyond rather tame flirting with npcs. Companions might be a different story, but I really can't see them writing a romantic relationship between the player character and a quest npc.
I agree, although I'm not sure whether the romantic relationship to companions might be just as tame or superficial then. Maybe like in Skyrim where they cooked you a meal once a day, and that's it.
But what a meal it was! To be fair, they also looked after any children you adopted.
I was only speaking for myself and finding it amusing that such an antiquated term isn't that uncommon in my experience.
I think you might be thinking of a different style of hat than I am. I'm thinking of hats in general, all types. I think most people own at least one hat.Wait, Vanny recognized Skordo's sword by magical residue or whatever? I thought he just recognized it by style. Or maybe he noticed something unique to it earlier. Like it had a particularly decorative hilt or whatever. I mean, I didn't pay much attention to it, so I wouldn't have recognized it, but I'm not the Great Mage with keen senses and acute observation.
Yes, he said something about some lingering aura he could sense. I don't think something like that ever came up before - or ever again after that situation. And with fake Skordo, the topic seemed to have been forgotten again.
Well, ok. Another trick for the Great Mage to use now and then, in certain situations but not others.Ahem, but to the point: I bet Mannimarco does have some sort of magical signature that clings to him even through and beyond death.
I guess everyone would have one. And I can't think of anything that could remove it from an individual (Unless maybe the person has been dead for a while, if it's related to life force - but then it would probably form again in case of resurrection). So that would be a method to clearly identify any person.
Even those who don't use magic? I know every player character can, but with npcs it seems there are definitely non-magical folk in Tamriel. As in they couldn't cast magic even if someone taught them a spell. However, I suppose it might not be related to magic at all, and just be an essential part of everyone.I was hoping it would be clarified in the prologue, because all along my big question to "the Worm Cult is back!" has always been, "How?" So, yes, some explanation is warranted, I think.
There are so many open questions this time, somehow I'm not optimistic there will even be enough time in Part 2 to answer even just half of them. To answer all, a much longer story would be needed.
That's true. So what's the biggest question you want to see answered in part 2? There's a lot I want to know, but I think my biggest one would be: how did they get Mannimarco's soul out of Coldharbour? Coupled with: how did they get his body? So that's a cheatery way of getting more then one question in, I know.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thankfully I haven't seen anything that obtrusive. Does sound a bit much, really.
It's honestly a bit difficult for me personally to understand why things like that are designed. The reasoning behind the idea. Since the problem of people potentially trolling other players is not a new one in online gaming, after all; so if I designed new graphical effects, I'd try to keep that in mind and to avoid everything that could be used disruptively to annoy other players. There are so many interesting and appealing designs that could be made without having huge explosions that blind every other player in the surroundings.Haha, yeah, that too.
I don't even get why many players are jumping so much in ESO, especially randomly in towns? It doesn't really make any difference, does it? It's not like in Morrowind or Oblivion where every jump would level your athletics/acrobatics skill.I know for game mechanics, we can still rez/reform after death, but lore wise, would any of that change after we got our soul back?
I guess it depends on whether our soul would replace the daedric replacement soul we got after our death, or merge with it? Ending up with only our mortal soul could indeed influence our ability to resurrect negatively.Um...happiness and devotion? That's my experience, anyway.
But what's with the irrational aspects, the inspiration, drive and strength to do wonderful, but unreasonable things? There's a reason the Ancient Greek philosopher Plato believed in the concept of divine madness ("life's greatest blessings come to us through madness, sent as a gift from the gods") - one of them being love (others were the gifts of prophecy, mysticism, and artistic inspiration - and for him, they were all rooted in one concept: beauty, or nature's striving for perfection).Zombie love, eh? Guess that isn't too different from vampire love.
For me, it would make a huge difference. You know, the hygienic aspect. But maybe I'm just a little squeamish there. But no, that's not it, or... let's say there's more to the story than just that. It's generally not a bad lorebook and was definitely an entertaining read.But what a meal it was! To be fair, they also looked after any children you adopted.
Didn't make any difference for me since I don't think any of my characters ever adopted someone. And the meal differed depending on whom you chose as a spouse.I think you might be thinking of a different style of hat than I am. I'm thinking of hats in general, all types. I think most people own at least one hat.
I was thinking of the type a milliner would produce.Even those who don't use magic? I know every player character can, but with npcs it seems there are definitely non-magical folk in Tamriel. As in they couldn't cast magic even if someone taught them a spell. However, I suppose it might not be related to magic at all, and just be an essential part of everyone.
Even if it's an individual's magicka signature (you know, one of these 3 different spiritual parts a person in Tamriel seems to consist of), I'd think everyone has something like that, even if it's underdeveloped in some individuals.That's true. So what's the biggest question you want to see answered in part 2? There's a lot I want to know, but I think my biggest one would be: how did they get Mannimarco's soul out of Coldharbour? Coupled with: how did they get his body? So that's a cheatery way of getting more then one question in, I know.
It's honestly hard to choose just one. There are so many questions, like: How did the Worm Cult resurface? Why do they have daedra in their ranks now? How will the conflict between Mannimarco and Molag Bal end? Who is/was Wormblood? How did Mannimarco flee from Coldharbor (generally, more Mannimarco background lore would be really appreciated)? Is there any personal relation between Mannimarco and Solstice (or the Corelanya)? If Vanny and Mannimarco met (which I really, really hope did happen), what did they talk about? How exactly does the Wall work? Is it somehow related to the Dunmer ghostfences (that already exist - as smaller versions than what we saw in TES3, protecting clan houses or small settlements - according to lore at this point)? What year is it?
If I'd had to choose just some questions to be answered, I'd prefer they elaborated on those which right now feel rather implausible, strange or rather artificial according to the lore we had so far. Since I don't want to assume lore mistakes or writing errors so far - I'm open for explanations and can accept them if they make sense (and I'd really prefer more than some vague "a wizard did it").@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Thankfully I haven't seen anything that obtrusive. Does sound a bit much, really.
It's honestly a bit difficult for me personally to understand why things like that are designed. The reasoning behind the idea. Since the problem of people potentially trolling other players is not a new one in online gaming, after all; so if I designed new graphical effects, I'd try to keep that in mind and to avoid everything that could be used disruptively to annoy other players. There are so many interesting and appealing designs that could be made without having huge explosions that blind every other player in the surroundings.
They aren't something I would design, either, if I had my way. But since there is a long-standing tradition of players in MMOs using any and everything to disrupt/grief/get the attention of other players, I think it's really hard to create something that couldn't then be used in that way. Plus, this is the same game that encourages players to throw mudballs at one another.
I think it's just a thing players do, often without even really thinking about it.Um...happiness and devotion? That's my experience, anyway.
But what's with the irrational aspects, the inspiration, drive and strength to do wonderful, but unreasonable things? There's a reason the Ancient Greek philosopher Plato believed in the concept of divine madness ("life's greatest blessings come to us through madness, sent as a gift from the gods") - one of them being love (others were the gifts of prophecy, mysticism, and artistic inspiration - and for him, they were all rooted in one concept: beauty, or nature's striving for perfection).
I think Plato is full of it in this case. First, there are no gods. Second, they don't give us gifts. Third, the idea that you can only be passionate or brilliant or inspired if you're mad is ridiculous. I'm not saying no one was ever driven to madness because of love, or that love never inspired anyone to great heights. Love isn't a one size fits all proposition. It's true you don't fall in love by logical deduction, but you also don't have to step into madness to fall in love.Zombie love, eh? Guess that isn't too different from vampire love.
For me, it would make a huge difference. You know, the hygienic aspect. But maybe I'm just a little squeamish there. But no, that's not it, or... let's say there's more to the story than just that. It's generally not a bad lorebook and was definitely an entertaining read.
Vampires and zombies are both gross dead things, so they're pretty much equal in my view. Anyway, I'll take your word for it on the lore book. Generally the lore books in the Elder Scrolls series are quite good.
I liked that we had the option to adopt a couple of the numerous orphans running around Skyrim. My character was very much an absentee father, though. Too much to do outside the home!That's true. So what's the biggest question you want to see answered in part 2? There's a lot I want to know, but I think my biggest one would be: how did they get Mannimarco's soul out of Coldharbour? Coupled with: how did they get his body? So that's a cheatery way of getting more then one question in, I know.
It's honestly hard to choose just one. There are so many questions, like: How did the Worm Cult resurface? Why do they have daedra in their ranks now? How will the conflict between Mannimarco and Molag Bal end? Who is/was Wormblood? How did Mannimarco flee from Coldharbor (generally, more Mannimarco background lore would be really appreciated)? Is there any personal relation between Mannimarco and Solstice (or the Corelanya)? If Vanny and Mannimarco met (which I really, really hope did happen), what did they talk about? How exactly does the Wall work? Is it somehow related to the Dunmer ghostfences (that already exist - as smaller versions than what we saw in TES3, protecting clan houses or small settlements - according to lore at this point)? What year is it?
If I'd had to choose just some questions to be answered, I'd prefer they elaborated on those which right now feel rather implausible, strange or rather artificial according to the lore we had so far. Since I don't want to assume lore mistakes or writing errors so far - I'm open for explanations and can accept them if they make sense (and I'd really prefer more than some vague "a wizard did it").
And I thought I was cheating by getting two questions in!
It is hard to choose just one. All of the ones you listed are ones I also want the answer to. I mean, we speculated a lot about Wormblood in the other thread, and the connection to Solstice/Corelanya. Would be nice to have any of that officially known.
As to what year it is, maybe we need to be like young children and keep asking the developers over and over. What year is it? What year is it? What year is it? Maybe then they'll answer us just to shut us up!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They aren't something I would design, either, if I had my way. But since there is a long-standing tradition of players in MMOs using any and everything to disrupt/grief/get the attention of other players, I think it's really hard to create something that couldn't then be used in that way.
I mean, I already fail to understand why huge flashes and loud explosion sounds are even necessary. It's possible to make a mount look rare and valuable just with special color schemes or adornments. Personally, that would probably even appeal to me more than the flashy mounts we get now. Actually it reminds me now that I already saw some mount on a screenshot twice that I thought looked good on the picture - but when I saw the flashy effects in the store preview, my interest was immediately gone (one had a huge summoning explosion I found awful, the other thing had some weird floating objects around it - for me, that made it look rather bizarre, while the creature itself didn't look bad).Plus, this is the same game that encourages players to throw mudballs at one another.
While I remember getting into mudball battles with random people on Summerset while waiting for geysers to start (which sometimes takes half an eternity), and finding that a good way to make the wait less boring, I still think it should be opt-in/out in the menu for people who don't want it. People often say that it doesn't really make any difference whether one gets hit or not, unless maybe at the outfit station, but I can think of more situations where it could be used to annoy other players. Like people taking screenshots or making some recordings, or roleplayers who just want to have a conversation in peace with their friends somewhere.I think Plato is full of it in this case. First, there are no gods. Second, they don't give us gifts. Third, the idea that you can only be passionate or brilliant or inspired if you're mad is ridiculous. I'm not saying no one was ever driven to madness because of love, or that love never inspired anyone to great heights. Love isn't a one size fits all proposition. It's true you don't fall in love by logical deduction, but you also don't have to step into madness to fall in love.
Whether he's correct or not really is the least interesting question to me personally. If he made such statements today, one might argue about it; but he lived over 2300 years before the concept of psychology was established or before hormones were discovered (I mean, Hippocrates had just made his theories about human fluids, but it was about blood and bile, and much less complex), and on top of that he was a philosopher, not a doctor. The concept of madness was a different one as well (in case of Plato, he clearly differenciated between positive, "divine" madness and negative, pathological madness, and "madness" is generally used as a term for ideas or sentiments not based on reason/logic - so of course that includes things like imagination, inspiration and love). What I find more interesting is what the quote tells us about the metaphysical theories back then, the world view of the people, their reasoning. Seeing prophetic visions, falling in love, and poetic inspiration as related phenomena of the same mystic cause is also a rather charming idea.
Which leads to the question: How are the theories about such things in Tamriel's different cultures? We know that nightmares are sent by Vaermina, but there surely must also be theories about all other kinds of things in a pre-modern society such as the one we see in the TES games. I'd like to see more on that, too.Vampires and zombies are both gross dead things, so they're pretty much equal in my view.
I bet the average Altmer vampire still smells better in death than the average living Breton At least the ones from Wayrest must smell horrible.I liked that we had the option to adopt a couple of the numerous orphans running around Skyrim. My character was very much an absentee father, though. Too much to do outside the home!
Not much to do inside the house either, or at least more would have been even better. I'd also like to see more things to do in houses in ESO.As to what year it is, maybe we need to be like young children and keep asking the developers over and over. What year is it? What year is it? What year is it? Maybe then they'll answer us just to shut us up!
Maybe, if someone asks that question in any Loremaster's Archive from now on...@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭They aren't something I would design, either, if I had my way. But since there is a long-standing tradition of players in MMOs using any and everything to disrupt/grief/get the attention of other players, I think it's really hard to create something that couldn't then be used in that way.
I mean, I already fail to understand why huge flashes and loud explosion sounds are even necessary. It's possible to make a mount look rare and valuable just with special color schemes or adornments. Personally, that would probably even appeal to me more than the flashy mounts we get now. Actually it reminds me now that I already saw some mount on a screenshot twice that I thought looked good on the picture - but when I saw the flashy effects in the store preview, my interest was immediately gone (one had a huge summoning explosion I found awful, the other thing had some weird floating objects around it - for me, that made it look rather bizarre, while the creature itself didn't look bad).
These mounts aren't something I'm interested in, either. I don't understand the appeal. Based on what I see in game and read on the forums, however, plenty of people enjoy them. They probably make good money for ZOS.Plus, this is the same game that encourages players to throw mudballs at one another.
While I remember getting into mudball battles with random people on Summerset while waiting for geysers to start (which sometimes takes half an eternity), and finding that a good way to make the wait less boring, I still think it should be opt-in/out in the menu for people who don't want it. People often say that it doesn't really make any difference whether one gets hit or not, unless maybe at the outfit station, but I can think of more situations where it could be used to annoy other players. Like people taking screenshots or making some recordings, or roleplayers who just want to have a conversation in peace with their friends somewhere.
If people want to get into mudball battles, that's their thing and nothing to do with me. But when I'm minding my own business and I get hit with a mudball, I don't care for it. It doesn't impact gameplay, no, but it does impact my enjoyment.I think Plato is full of it in this case. First, there are no gods. Second, they don't give us gifts. Third, the idea that you can only be passionate or brilliant or inspired if you're mad is ridiculous. I'm not saying no one was ever driven to madness because of love, or that love never inspired anyone to great heights. Love isn't a one size fits all proposition. It's true you don't fall in love by logical deduction, but you also don't have to step into madness to fall in love.
Whether he's correct or not really is the least interesting question to me personally.
Oh, ok. Well, it sounded like you agreed with his thoughts. I didn't, so was explaining why.If he made such statements today, one might argue about it; but he lived over 2300 years before the concept of psychology was established or before hormones were discovered (I mean, Hippocrates had just made his theories about human fluids, but it was about blood and bile, and much less complex), and on top of that he was a philosopher, not a doctor. The concept of madness was a different one as well (in case of Plato, he clearly differenciated between positive, "divine" madness and negative, pathological madness, and "madness" is generally used as a term for ideas or sentiments not based on reason/logic - so of course that includes things like imagination, inspiration and love).
I don't think we need to venerate statements just because they were made a long time ago, before people knew what they know today about the human mind and body. I know he was one of the great old philosophers and contributed a lot to the study of philosophy, but that doesn't mean all his ideas are valid.What I find more interesting is what the quote tells us about the metaphysical theories back then, the world view of the people, their reasoning. Seeing prophetic visions, falling in love, and poetic inspiration as related phenomena of the same mystic cause is also a rather charming idea.
Sure, it's interesting enough from that perspective. I don't find it charming, though.Which leads to the question: How are the theories about such things in Tamriel's different cultures? We know that nightmares are sent by Vaermina, but there surely must also be theories about all other kinds of things in a pre-modern society such as the one we see in the TES games. I'd like to see more on that, too.
Regarding Vaermina and nightmares: is the only reason anyone has a nightmare because of her? That is to say, without Vaermina's influence, they might dream, but it wouldn't be unpleasant?
Madness in Elder Scrolls, or at least in ESO, is presented in a couple of ways. There's the driven mad through knowledge version, usually associated with spending too much time in Apocrypha. Then there's Sheogorath, where madness is treated mostly like a series of quirks or just wacky behavior. (You know: cheese!) I should say his madness is treated that way. When he infects mortals with madness, it tends to be a bit more grim. (Recently replayed that Two Moons Temple quest in Elsweyr, and he had people jumping to their deaths). Is there non-Sheogorath or Apocrypha induced madness? I think there is, but I'm blanking on an example of it.
But I think the thing about any of this is: they actually know who is causing these things. The gods/princes aren't hypothetical in their world and people have interacted with them and sometimes even gone to their realms. They can even pin illness on a Daedric prince. I'm trying to think of a thing or state of being that could happen that couldn't be traced back to one of the gods or the Daedric princes.
All living people smell to some degree, particularly in a world where indoor plumbing isn't a thing. But a stinky living person is still less repulsive to me than an undead thing.I liked that we had the option to adopt a couple of the numerous orphans running around Skyrim. My character was very much an absentee father, though. Too much to do outside the home!
Not much to do inside the house either, or at least more would have been even better. I'd also like to see more things to do in houses in ESO.
Such as? Since we can set up our bankers and merchants in our houses, and crafting stations, and we can interact with quite a lot of furniture and mementos, set up houseguests and training dummies, and our armory, what else would you add? Aside from the ability to have our characters actually sleep in the beds, that is. Crafting dailies? Travel hubs? A party with all the npcs we know? (Ok, that last one was just a joke, but now that I think about it....) I am curious to know what you'd like to see.
Oh, one thing we could do in our Skyrim homes was craft and grow a little garden. That I do remember. I wouldn't mind growing a little herb garden in one of my ESO homes.As to what year it is, maybe we need to be like young children and keep asking the developers over and over. What year is it? What year is it? What year is it? Maybe then they'll answer us just to shut us up!
Maybe, if someone asks that question in any Loremaster's Archive from now on...
Someone definitely should!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think we need to venerate statements just because they were made a long time ago, before people knew what they know today about the human mind and body. I know he was one of the great old philosophers and contributed a lot to the study of philosophy, but that doesn't mean all his ideas are valid.
How is that veneration? It's observation out of interest in the thought concepts and philosophies of people from different cultures and eras. In the end it's interest in history, because philosophy (especially in pre-modern times) shaped whole societies and their habits immensely, and in all kinds of fields, from social structures or foci in terms of science and exploration, to mundane things like architecture or even clothing or dietary habits (To know what people did in the past is one thing, but to understand why they did it might be even more interesting). It also helps to compare these concepts to see differences and similarities that might lead to understanding social tendencies that are universal. Whether I agree or don't agree with some ancient concept really doesn't matter. I don't even have to like it, it can still tell me interesting things about a society. And of course I can feel appreciation for the human creativity that led to the rich mythologies and pantheons of different cultures worldwide, no matter if it's the Ancient Greek, the Norse, the Old Lithuanians, the Babylonians, or the Celts, without believing in them as factual truth myself. I generally appreciate imagination. I appreciate interesting concepts and theories. And as a historian I can feel a certain respect if I learn of a theory that was especially remarkable for the time it was written, because it went much beyond the limited world knowledge or normative traditions of the era, which means the writer had both the ability as well as the courage to think outside the established norms of the time. Which is a thing that's, according to the impression I have, sadly rather rare for mankind.
And since I find these things interesting when it comes to real world history, I'd also like to see them in a well-written fictional world, of course. We see what Tamriel's different cultures believe in, we know they have temples and shrines, we know there are some pilgrimages, we know the names of their deities, we even know some symbolism, religious writings and lithurgic rituals of the Dunmer religion, but I think there could be more about how their beliefs (or generally: world view) shape their habits and culture beyond obviously religious aspects like prayers or temple architecture. It's a medieval-ish society, and while they have good scholars that might have scientifically understood some aspects of the world, and while some occurrences might indeed be the works of the Aedra and Daedra in this fictional world, there must still be many aspects that are unknown or inexplainable to them, and that they must try to make sense of somehow - and these theories would most probably not be made randomly, but would be based on what they already know as well as their different cultural beliefs. So in the end it would help us learn more about these cultures.But I think the thing about any of this is: they actually know who is causing these things. The gods/princes aren't hypothetical in their world and people have interacted with them and sometimes even gone to their realms. They can even pin illness on a Daedric prince. I'm trying to think of a thing or state of being that could happen that couldn't be traced back to one of the gods or the Daedric princes.
They are attributing things happening to them to specific Daedric Princes (Vaermina is said to collect people's memories from their dreams and that process then leaves nightmares; and Sheogorath, well... We have heard of him and seen him often enough). We also see in game, at least with Sheogorath, how he's turning people insane. But can we say for sure whether the Daedric Princes are the only causes for these things? We don't know.Such as? Since we can set up our bankers and merchants in our houses, and crafting stations, and we can interact with quite a lot of furniture and mementos, set up houseguests and training dummies, and our armory, what else would you add? Aside from the ability to have our characters actually sleep in the beds, that is. Crafting dailies? Travel hubs? A party with all the npcs we know? (Ok, that last one was just a joke, but now that I think about it....) I am curious to know what you'd like to see.
Oh, one thing we could do in our Skyrim homes was craft and grow a little garden. That I do remember. I wouldn't mind growing a little herb garden in one of my ESO homes.
Gardening (and possibly fishing if there's water), crafting writ boards and turn-in points, wayshrines or portals, a possibility to display chosen weapons or armor, usable gaming tables of the game furnishings we already have (could also be added to taverns then, of course), maybe traps and mechanisms for people who want to build their own dungeon, more playable musical instruments, useable bookshelves that we can just fill with books of our choice like a container (and then read those books, of course). That's the things I can think of right now. It's late.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I don't think we need to venerate statements just because they were made a long time ago, before people knew what they know today about the human mind and body. I know he was one of the great old philosophers and contributed a lot to the study of philosophy, but that doesn't mean all his ideas are valid.
How is that veneration?
On your part, it's not. My view is colored by the time and place in which I currently live, and there is a lot of veneration for "how things used to be" to the point that certain people are actively trying to drag us in the past, when things sucked for the majority of the population.It's observation out of interest in the thought concepts and philosophies of people from different cultures and eras. In the end it's interest in history, because philosophy (especially in pre-modern times) shaped whole societies and their habits immensely, and in all kinds of fields, from social structures or foci in terms of science and exploration, to mundane things like architecture or even clothing or dietary habits (To know what people did in the past is one thing, but to understand why they did it might be even more interesting).
Yes, they did shape whole societies and their habits, and sometimes that led to suffering for a great many people. I can't help but think of that when I think of these old greats and how long some of their incorrect thoughts adversely affected people.It also helps to compare these concepts to see differences and similarities that might lead to understanding social tendencies that are universal. Whether I agree or don't agree with some ancient concept really doesn't matter. I don't even have to like it, it can still tell me interesting things about a society. And of course I can feel appreciation for the human creativity that led to the rich mythologies and pantheons of different cultures worldwide, no matter if it's the Ancient Greek, the Norse, the Old Lithuanians, the Babylonians, or the Celts, without believing in them as factual truth myself. I generally appreciate imagination. I appreciate interesting concepts and theories. And as a historian I can feel a certain respect if I learn of a theory that was especially remarkable for the time it was written, because it went much beyond the limited world knowledge or normative traditions of the era, which means the writer had both the ability as well as the courage to think outside the established norms of the time. Which is a thing that's, according to the impression I have, sadly rather rare for mankind.
I can appreciate the creativity of thought that existed, particularly when scientific understanding was minimal, and especially when that creativity rubbed up against the established order of the day (usually religious). I find it interesting that the old pantheons of gods of widely different cultures were largely similar in the basic concepts. To me that speaks of a similarity in the human experience across time and geographical separation, while the details of the various pantheons show how that basic concept was interpreted in their worldview.
It also seems that thinking outside the established norms of the time was a far more dangerous prospect in the past than it is today (in some places, at least). That kind of thought might seem more rare than it actually was owing to the various consequences of expressing such thought.And since I find these things interesting when it comes to real world history, I'd also like to see them in a well-written fictional world, of course. We see what Tamriel's different cultures believe in, we know they have temples and shrines, we know there are some pilgrimages, we know the names of their deities, we even know some symbolism, religious writings and lithurgic rituals of the Dunmer religion, but I think there could be more about how their beliefs (or generally: world view) shape their habits and culture beyond obviously religious aspects like prayers or temple architecture. It's a medieval-ish society, and while they have good scholars that might have scientifically understood some aspects of the world, and while some occurrences might indeed be the works of the Aedra and Daedra in this fictional world, there must still be many aspects that are unknown or inexplainable to them, and that they must try to make sense of somehow - and these theories would most probably not be made randomly, but would be based on what they already know as well as their different cultural beliefs. So in the end it would help us learn more about these cultures.
It's also a world with actual magic in it. I think when you introduce actual magic to a world, people trying to make sense of unknown or inexplicable parts of the world is a different process. In our world, people used to attribute to magic or gods things which are now explained by science and a better understanding of the natural world. In Tamriel, there really is magic. How does that affect their striving to make sense of things? We joke about "a wizard did it" but I think that some form of that kind of thinking--not such an obvious flat-out statement like that, but an acknowledgement that magic could be behind some of the inexplicable aspects of life--would be present. Like in Khenarthi's Roost, the storm that causes such havoc is due to the Maormer and their magic. If that can happen, it creates a chaotic setting where it doesn't matter what you do, or what habits you develop, everything can be changed regardless. Developing architecture that can withstand the normal elements kind of falls by the wayside when magic can undo all that. So how does that inform the development of their society?But I think the thing about any of this is: they actually know who is causing these things. The gods/princes aren't hypothetical in their world and people have interacted with them and sometimes even gone to their realms. They can even pin illness on a Daedric prince. I'm trying to think of a thing or state of being that could happen that couldn't be traced back to one of the gods or the Daedric princes.
They are attributing things happening to them to specific Daedric Princes (Vaermina is said to collect people's memories from their dreams and that process then leaves nightmares; and Sheogorath, well... We have heard of him and seen him often enough). We also see in game, at least with Sheogorath, how he's turning people insane. But can we say for sure whether the Daedric Princes are the only causes for these things? We don't know.
No, we don't know. The people who live in Tamriel seem to think that's the case. Aside from rare folk like Sotha Sil and his followers, there doesn't seem to be much effort to look beyond what the Daedric Princes in order to make sense of the world. That's why I was trying to think of an instance of something happening that they don't attribute to a Daedric Prince. Widespread events such as the Knahaten Flu or Thrassian Plague don't get such attribution, but I'm wondering about smaller incidents. If a farmer's crops fail inexplicably, does the farmer try to find the explanation by studying variables of soil, weather, and so forth, or just chalk it up to a bad year perhaps, or does the farmer think one of the Daedric princes is behind it? When the people of Tamriel look for explanations, where do their thoughts go?
That's an interesting construct about Vaermina: that she collects your memories and so you're left with nightmare. I've had dreams not based on any explicit memory that weren't nightmares. My nightmares (or, to put it more mildly, unpleasant dreams) often do have memories at their core.Such as? Since we can set up our bankers and merchants in our houses, and crafting stations, and we can interact with quite a lot of furniture and mementos, set up houseguests and training dummies, and our armory, what else would you add? Aside from the ability to have our characters actually sleep in the beds, that is. Crafting dailies? Travel hubs? A party with all the npcs we know? (Ok, that last one was just a joke, but now that I think about it....) I am curious to know what you'd like to see.
Oh, one thing we could do in our Skyrim homes was craft and grow a little garden. That I do remember. I wouldn't mind growing a little herb garden in one of my ESO homes.
Gardening (and possibly fishing if there's water), crafting writ boards and turn-in points, wayshrines or portals, a possibility to display chosen weapons or armor, usable gaming tables of the game furnishings we already have (could also be added to taverns then, of course), maybe traps and mechanisms for people who want to build their own dungeon, more playable musical instruments, useable bookshelves that we can just fill with books of our choice like a container (and then read those books, of course). That's the things I can think of right now. It's late.
Oh, fishing would be a nice addition! Also being able to play some of the games we can craft. I've always wanted to give Punctilious Conflict a try. I would love it if it was easier to fill the empty bookshelves. It's possible, of course, to slot the books in one by one, but it's rather a tedious process. In my Lake Amaya lodge, I have a bedroom set up with a bookshelf that holds all the thirty-six sermons (you know, for some light bedtime reading!) and that took a long time. I also wish it was more like the bookshelves in Skyrim, where you could drop the books in and they'd show up and be accessible.
In general, I'd like more interactable objects. I know there's little point to being able to lie down in the beds, or get in the bathtub, or actually eat a meal at a table, but I would still find it enjoyable to be able to actually do those things in my house. I can make a dining table with chairs, and put food on the table, and make it look like a nice feast, but in the end all I can do is sit in the chair and stare off into the middle distance.
For the weapons and armor, are you thinking of the lore-famous ones, or more like ones our characters have used and valued? It would be kind of neat to, instead of tossing alternate armor sets into a storage chest, arrange them on mannequins. Or weapon racks for the weapons. So you could create an armory in one of your homes if you wanted, or go the route of having a few choice displays, like people used to do with suits of armor in the house and weapons on the walls.
I wonder if they ever would add crafting write boards and turn-in points to housing. I know there's a common sentiment in MMOs against taking people out of the world, which home crafting would do. In general, they like the cities to look populated by players and "busy." It really wouldn't matter to me; I'm just curious what the ZOS developer philosophy is on the matter.
Edit to add: I just saw the post that the Writhing Wall event starts October 13. So now we know how long the wait is.Edited by metheglyn on 27 August 2025 14:520 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On your part, it's not. My view is colored by the time and place in which I currently live, and there is a lot of veneration for "how things used to be" to the point that certain people are actively trying to drag us in the past, when things sucked for the majority of the population.
Things are a little busy today (and might be the following days), but I'd like to reply to at least this part for now.
It seems to be indeed a completely different concept of history and historical science. The general understanding here is that historical beliefs and theories are ideas that were made up by humans of a different era based on their limited scientific understanding, moral ideas, world view and existing theories of that time. The study of history is not about celebrating past things or about using them as a justification for anything (and we don't do "hero"/"great person" stuff either) - it's about analysing them as an object of study.
I've mentioned before that, while in elementary school here the main goal is learning facts, from middle school on, it's about understanding connections and reasoning. No matter whether it's about historical events or a mathematical formula - it's not only about learning that is exists or happened, the main questions are: "Why?" (As in: "Why did this event happen?" or "How was this formula developed?" - basically "What led to this?") and "What did it mean for the world?" ("What did this historical event lead to? What other events or ideas were based on that?" or "How did this formula influence scientific development back then: What other theories could be built on that? What was the practical use, what inventions did it enable?").
Especially the study of history is not about memorizing singular facts. It's about understanding causes: How did some events develop? How did a theory emerge? - What effects did that event or theory have on society? - Do parallels exist in other eras or regions of the world, and if so, can we see some universal cause of events there? Because that's how we can learn from history. Singular knowledge like the coronation date of an 14th century Swedish king, the main material of 9th century Indian pottery or the styles of 17th century French hat fashion might be interesting to know, but if we don't go beyond "That's how it was", what would we learn? But if we go deeper, we could use these things to learn about different aspects of that time: What handicrafts did exist? Or, if a material is not naturally found at that location (or if we see fashion similarities in different cultures in a certain period of time), we can learn about trade routes. And when we look at trade routes, we can analyse the evolution of language or also of beliefs, philosophical theories and even technology along those trade routes, because travelling individuals were what led to the spreading not only of raw materials or wares, but also of ideas.
Or take Plato's idea about artistic inspiration as an example. If the premise is that artistic inspiration meets two criteria - #1 "It's sent to the humans by the gods.", #2 "It's a type of madness." - it tells us so many things: It tells us about the idea people had back then about the human mind, about emotions (Which ones are normal and which ones are unordinary?), about the idea of "madness", about health and medicine. It also tells us about their view of their deities and what they usually were thought to do, if and how they were supposed to interact with mortals. It also tells us about the view people had about art and artists, and therefore which social status artists might have had, and based on that also how their living conditions might have looked like.
Generally, it leads to hugely different world views if a historical society thinks of inspiration as coming from within a creative human (based on their own imagination, experiences and skills), or if they believed the ideas were sent directly from a deity and the poet is basically just the possessed vessel a deity speaks through (And the only individual achievement might be rearranging the received divine message into a nice form or reciting it to the public, which then doesn't sound much like an individual success - but then again, being seen as favored by the gods might also give an invididual a certain societal status, but in a different way of thinking; that's then more related to morals and piety that might have led to someone becoming a deity's chosen favorite, than creativity and intellect).
Anyway, when it comes to the biggest historical developments of Nirn, I always found the TES games to do that really well. There are greater developments over the course of the different eras that fully make sense and are well-designed by the writers. I especially like if new lore comes up that fills gaps between already established lore in a sensible way. I'd like to see more of that, more connections, connections between different cultures and locations on the continent, also for some smaller events.
I see that ESO's "Play in any order" concept during the last decade has led to several bigger events we saw in the different chapters, that feel completely unconnected - they're very much restricted to a small zone and they don't affect anything else; they are just singular things that happen and then end again without any lasting influence on the region's culture - or even the continent as a whole. Time not progressing also doesn't help, since of course we can't see any lasting effect or developments if the event is basically frozen in time. Maybe more could be done about that if we now get an official order for the stories and a progression of time.
I'd also enjoy if we saw more connections between the cultures. Not just some "In city x there's a mixed population between fictional race 1 and 2", but actually how the cultures influence each other, for example how certain habits, styles or philosophical ideas might have been spread through travellers in certain regions. It might be just a rather small thing to (let's make up an example...) notice architectural details in, let's say, some region in Skyrim, that seem to show some Dunmer influence. And then we might learn through lore that there was indeed a Dunmer influence by some group of settlers, refugees, a trade route or what ever, that existed in the past. I don't know if it means a lot to most people, but for me, even such smaller things make the world feel more realistic. And for me it gets even more interesting if it's not only about some architectural fashion or culinary habit, but for example philosophical concepts.
To see developments and influences across the continent, over some period of time, would probably also make Tamriel's cultures feel less stereotyped. Because right now it's sometimes very clearly "The Nords are like that and like these things, while the Dunmer like those other things and believe something completely different" - like clear-cut factions in some fable. But a more realistic world isn't like that. There's always some kind of exchange, always, not even just in peace, but also in war, for example. There are lots of historical real world examples for that.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭On your part, it's not. My view is colored by the time and place in which I currently live, and there is a lot of veneration for "how things used to be" to the point that certain people are actively trying to drag us in the past, when things sucked for the majority of the population.
Things are a little busy today (and might be the following days), but I'd like to reply to at least this part for now.
It seems to be indeed a completely different concept of history and historical science. The general understanding here is that historical beliefs and theories are ideas that were made up by humans of a different era based on their limited scientific understanding, moral ideas, world view and existing theories of that time. The study of history is not about celebrating past things or about using them as a justification for anything (and we don't do "hero"/"great person" stuff either) - it's about analysing them as an object of study.
That is an important distinction, and I do understand where you're coming from.Especially the study of history is not about memorizing singular facts. It's about understanding causes: How did some events develop? How did a theory emerge? - What effects did that event or theory have on society? - Do parallels exist in other eras or regions of the world, and if so, can we see some universal cause of events there? Because that's how we can learn from history. Singular knowledge like the coronation date of an 14th century Swedish king, the main material of 9th century Indian pottery or the styles of 17th century French hat fashion might be interesting to know, but if we don't go beyond "That's how it was", what would we learn? But if we go deeper, we could use these things to learn about different aspects of that time: What handicrafts did exist? Or, if a material is not naturally found at that location (or if we see fashion similarities in different cultures in a certain period of time), we can learn about trade routes. And when we look at trade routes, we can analyse the evolution of language or also of beliefs, philosophical theories and even technology along those trade routes, because travelling individuals were what led to the spreading not only of raw materials or wares, but also of ideas.
Or take Plato's idea about artistic inspiration as an example. If the premise is that artistic inspiration meets two criteria - #1 "It's sent to the humans by the gods.", #2 "It's a type of madness." - it tells us so many things: It tells us about the idea people had back then about the human mind, about emotions (Which ones are normal and which ones are unordinary?), about the idea of "madness", about health and medicine. It also tells us about their view of their deities and what they usually were thought to do, if and how they were supposed to interact with mortals. It also tells us about the view people had about art and artists, and therefore which social status artists might have had, and based on that also how their living conditions might have looked like.
Generally, it leads to hugely different world views if a historical society thinks of inspiration as coming from within a creative human (based on their own imagination, experiences and skills), or if they believed the ideas were sent directly from a deity and the poet is basically just the possessed vessel a deity speaks through (And the only individual achievement might be rearranging the received divine message into a nice form or reciting it to the public, which then doesn't sound much like an individual success - but then again, being seen as favored by the gods might also give an invididual a certain societal status, but in a different way of thinking; that's then more related to morals and piety that might have led to someone becoming a deity's chosen favorite, than creativity and intellect).
Anyway, when it comes to the biggest historical developments of Nirn, I always found the TES games to do that really well. There are greater developments over the course of the different eras that fully make sense and are well-designed by the writers. I especially like if new lore comes up that fills gaps between already established lore in a sensible way. I'd like to see more of that, more connections, connections between different cultures and locations on the continent, also for some smaller events.
The series does have a rich established historical lore and I know they do their best to remain consistent within that lore. Something I wonder about is the actual size of Tamriel; what does it equate to in our world. I think about how geographical distance impacted various cultures and the way the societies developed. The pantheon, for example, is the same for all cultures in Tamriel. They all know of the same divines and daedric princes, and though they interpret them slightly differently, or hold them in different estimation, the entities are the same for all, with perhaps slight changes in the spelling of names. I would think, with a larger landmass and more geographical isolation, there would be larger differences in such beliefs, perhaps even different entities entirely. Then again, this is also a world where people can portal across great distances, so the intermingling of cultural norms and ideas is made easier.I see that ESO's "Play in any order" concept during the last decade has led to several bigger events we saw in the different chapters, that feel completely unconnected - they're very much restricted to a small zone and they don't affect anything else; they are just singular things that happen and then end again without any lasting influence on the region's culture - or even the continent as a whole. Time not progressing also doesn't help, since of course we can't see any lasting effect or developments if the event is basically frozen in time. Maybe more could be done about that if we now get an official order for the stories and a progression of time.
There is a strange feeling of isolation to some of the areas; as if all they know is what is happening in their zone. You know the two npcs who basically announce Elsweyr? "Dragons, in your own homeland, what are you going to do?" "This one does not know, but he hopes his family is safe in Riverhold." So they're there, in whatever city for each faction, and they're a tiny bit of world building and lore, and their presence does make the dragon attacks feel like they are impacting the world, not just the few specific spots in Elsweyr. However, once you complete both sections of Elsweyr, those npcs are gone. We never find out if his family was safe, or what he's going to do now, or anything. Granted, we don't need to know any of that, but that small kind of detail being missing does contribute to that isolation as well as that feeling of nothing changing. So I really do hope they continue with moving the timeline forward and will represent somehow changes to the world.I'd also enjoy if we saw more connections between the cultures. Not just some "In city x there's a mixed population between fictional race 1 and 2", but actually how the cultures influence each other, for example how certain habits, styles or philosophical ideas might have been spread through travellers in certain regions. It might be just a rather small thing to (let's make up an example...) notice architectural details in, let's say, some region in Skyrim, that seem to show some Dunmer influence. And then we might learn through lore that there was indeed a Dunmer influence by some group of settlers, refugees, a trade route or what ever, that existed in the past. I don't know if it means a lot to most people, but for me, even such smaller things make the world feel more realistic. And for me it gets even more interesting if it's not only about some architectural fashion or culinary habit, but for example philosophical concepts.
Ideally, how would you have these details represented? Lore books are a good way to do it, but in what other ways would you like to have these kinds of details show up? I could see a conversation between two npcs about cultural differences being one way. Maybe there could be a group of philosopher-type npcs in, say, the Mages Guild you could interact with, talk to about their beliefs, and they could perhaps mention something about how since they came to Mournhold to study, they understand some aspects of the Tribunal better. I mean, ok, both of those are sorta dorky examples, but I do think it would be nice if non-quest npcs had more to say for themselves than they normally do, and some of that could be related to those cross-cultural details you mentioned. You know, a place where some of this could have played out was in High Isle, in the place set up to treat wounded soldiers from all factions. Steadfast Manor, wasn't it? Been awhile since I was there, so I don't recall how chatty the recuperating npcs were and if you could learn anything from them. Anyway, that would have been a natural place to have people from different parts of the continent share stories and beliefs, and we could have extrapolated that such stories and beliefs would spread from there, when the soldiers went back to their homes.To see developments and influences across the continent, over some period of time, would probably also make Tamriel's cultures feel less stereotyped. Because right now it's sometimes very clearly "The Nords are like that and like these things, while the Dunmer like those other things and believe something completely different" - like clear-cut factions in some fable. But a more realistic world isn't like that. There's always some kind of exchange, always, not even just in peace, but also in war, for example. There are lots of historical real world examples for that.
Yes, I'd be all for richer development of cultures.
Anyway, I know you're busy (and I hope not getting overwhelmed with bureaucracy), so I'll leave this alone for now.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's also a world with actual magic in it. I think when you introduce actual magic to a world, people trying to make sense of unknown or inexplicable parts of the world is a different process. In our world, people used to attribute to magic or gods things which are now explained by science and a better understanding of the natural world. In Tamriel, there really is magic. How does that affect their striving to make sense of things? We joke about "a wizard did it" but I think that some form of that kind of thinking--not such an obvious flat-out statement like that, but an acknowledgement that magic could be behind some of the inexplicable aspects of life--would be present.
That's an interesting question. I'd expect if most things can indeed be attributed to magic or the (D)Aedra, people would probably assume that there's not much more to it - so scientific efforts would be rather rare. Then again, we know that there are scholars; there are alchemists (although we can argue now of course whether the properties of the plants in this world are magical or natural), I think there was also a doctor somewhere who didn't use magic, and then, although that's a very different field of research, we seem to have a whole bunch of archeologists and historians in Tamriel. Then again, astronomers also seem to be a thing, although that also includes topics of magic and mysticism in this world - but it shows that there's an interest in understanding the world and nature, no matter whether phenomena can be explained by the gods or by other means in the end. Of course it's a rather rare thing - but then again, let's be honest: How many people in the real world think in-depth about the science behind the things in their daily life? How many people care about what exactly happens technically if they get a phone call or send an email or turn on their microwave or tv? How many wonder why the sunrise has a different tint on different days? I'm sure some people don't even notice, let alone think about such things.Like in Khenarthi's Roost, the storm that causes such havoc is due to the Maormer and their magic. If that can happen, it creates a chaotic setting where it doesn't matter what you do, or what habits you develop, everything can be changed regardless. Developing architecture that can withstand the normal elements kind of falls by the wayside when magic can undo all that. So how does that inform the development of their society?
For sure they don't seem to be that protected against all kinds of magic threats, otherwise we wouldn't see all those horrible events that take place in ESOIf a farmer's crops fail inexplicably, does the farmer try to find the explanation by studying variables of soil, weather, and so forth, or just chalk it up to a bad year perhaps, or does the farmer think one of the Daedric princes is behind it? When the people of Tamriel look for explanations, where do their thoughts go?
I'd really like to learn more about such more mundane things in ESO. More about the life of the average person and the different world views people have in different Tamrielic cultures. We get a bit of these small lore things through the antiquity system (when it comes to historical items and habits) and a bit through thievery/contraband items for the current habits, but it could be elaborated on.That's an interesting construct about Vaermina: that she collects your memories and so you're left with nightmare. I've had dreams not based on any explicit memory that weren't nightmares. My nightmares (or, to put it more mildly, unpleasant dreams) often do have memories at their core.
I dream quite often. Positive dreams are mostly about travelling and exploring places that I've never seen before. The negative ones, if I have them at all, are more... phantastical. At least I hope I'll never be confronted with an invisible being hiding in my wardrobe and biting off my right hand (so I had to hunt it down and slay it with my other arm that wasn't just some bloodied stump) in real lifeI've always wanted to give Punctilious Conflict a try.
It somehow looks like Solitaire to me, just with a slightly different shape. Which would be fun. I'd also be curious about this one, can't remember right now how it's called in ESO (those games all seem to be based on some real-world game):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounds_and_jackalsI would love it if it was easier to fill the empty bookshelves. It's possible, of course, to slot the books in one by one, but it's rather a tedious process. In my Lake Amaya lodge, I have a bedroom set up with a bookshelf that holds all the thirty-six sermons (you know, for some light bedtime reading!) and that took a long time. I also wish it was more like the bookshelves in Skyrim, where you could drop the books in and they'd show up and be accessible.
It would also be nice to somehow be able to reduce the used up furnishing slots by this. It's hard to build a big home library right now if you only have a few slots left for books after you've decently furnished the rest of the home, and then every single book takes another complete slot.In general, I'd like more interactable objects. I know there's little point to being able to lie down in the beds, or get in the bathtub, or actually eat a meal at a table, but I would still find it enjoyable to be able to actually do those things in my house. I can make a dining table with chairs, and put food on the table, and make it look like a nice feast, but in the end all I can do is sit in the chair and stare off into the middle distance.
That would certainly be nice for roleplay and immersion.For the weapons and armor, are you thinking of the lore-famous ones, or more like ones our characters have used and valued? It would be kind of neat to, instead of tossing alternate armor sets into a storage chest, arrange them on mannequins. Or weapon racks for the weapons. So you could create an armory in one of your homes if you wanted, or go the route of having a few choice displays, like people used to do with suits of armor in the house and weapons on the walls.
They could give us a few replica furnishings of some famous items (maybe another 40 hour grind for the 15th anniversary ), but I was thinking more of empty racks where we could put what ever weapons and armor we personally would like to display.I wonder if they ever would add crafting write boards and turn-in points to housing. I know there's a common sentiment in MMOs against taking people out of the world, which home crafting would do. In general, they like the cities to look populated by players and "busy." It really wouldn't matter to me; I'm just curious what the ZOS developer philosophy is on the matter.
I would really appreciate that. I don't even think I'd use it, but it would be a solution for people who want to have it done as fastly as possible, so the town design wouldn't have to be adjusted accordingly, for player convenience, - and they could focus more on immersion and atmosphere in towns.I just saw the post that the Writhing Wall event starts October 13. So now we know how long the wait is.
What's even stranger: The main camp on Solstice is already there. There are already quests that can be accepted but that end nowhere, because the needed npcs don't exist yet or don't have the needed dialogue, but it's... basically half-ready. The camp also has a physically invisible "wayshrine" (can be discovered - leading to xp gain and then shows as "completed" on the map). Meanwhile, the "world event" labels near the small camps have disappeared from the map again, but still trigger as "discovered" when you somehow pass by those locations. Let's say: There's quite a lot to discover already, but it's, well, obviously bugged and probably not intended to be there yet.
The achievement furnisher also already has the reward item for the Wall event ready. In the UI, there are already lots of achievements listed for it, too. I'm astonished since it's still over a month until it's scheduled to go live; it's not even on PTS yet - there, it's planned to start in about 9 days, I think (Not sure yet whether I'll install PTS this time or not).Something I wonder about is the actual size of Tamriel; what does it equate to in our world.
It's really hard to say. What we see in game doesn't really make sense. Riding across a whole zone rarely takes longer than 5 minutes and the next village is usually only about a minute away. And then we have tiny islands that take the same time to traverse like a landmass that's huge on the map, like Telvanni Peninsula, for example. Add to that the different climate zones - it's not plausible. Maybe we could regard it as something like a model and imagine the distances between locations are actually much further apart - but we don't know how far, then.I think about how geographical distance impacted various cultures and the way the societies developed. The pantheon, for example, is the same for all cultures in Tamriel. They all know of the same divines and daedric princes, and though they interpret them slightly differently, or hold them in different estimation, the entities are the same for all, with perhaps slight changes in the spelling of names. I would think, with a larger landmass and more geographical isolation, there would be larger differences in such beliefs, perhaps even different entities entirely. Then again, this is also a world where people can portal across great distances, so the intermingling of cultural norms and ideas is made easier.
I'd actually like to see a really remote location in game, with its specific cultural ideas that are different to the main land because there was no big cultural exchange at all - that would be interesting. Solstice should be such a place according to background lore - but then in game, for some reason, it comes across as culturally diverse as most other zones. A missed opportunity, from my point of view.
I hope we might still get a bit of that with the Stone Nest Argonians that must be on the East of Solstice - although I expect the story to probably fully focus on the Worm Cult instead. Right now I somehow imagine it basically like the usual Q4 story dlcs that took place in Daedric realms - lots of Coldharbour. The mortals mixed in might give it a bit of the atmosphere we had in the Deadlands, with the mortal settlements that ended up there (especially Wretched Spire; it was a nice lore moment, by the way, to see that place and realize that it's indeed Old Mournhold) - basically mortals surviving in a threatening daedric environment. And Worm Cultists pacting with the daedra, for what ever reason.There is a strange feeling of isolation to some of the areas; as if all they know is what is happening in their zone. You know the two npcs who basically announce Elsweyr? "Dragons, in your own homeland, what are you going to do?" "This one does not know, but he hopes his family is safe in Riverhold." So they're there, in whatever city for each faction, and they're a tiny bit of world building and lore, and their presence does make the dragon attacks feel like they are impacting the world, not just the few specific spots in Elsweyr. However, once you complete both sections of Elsweyr, those npcs are gone. We never find out if his family was safe, or what he's going to do now, or anything. Granted, we don't need to know any of that, but that small kind of detail being missing does contribute to that isolation as well as that feeling of nothing changing. So I really do hope they continue with moving the timeline forward and will represent somehow changes to the world.
It's interesting actually that while no one usually seems to know what's going on in other zones, the people of Solstice all know about the Worm Cult and what notIdeally, how would you have these details represented? Lore books are a good way to do it, but in what other ways would you like to have these kinds of details show up?
Just small details in worldbuilding, really. Lorebooks and dialogues, but also architectural details or some common traditions in bordering regions. Althought I'm not too optimistic about small local differences in architecture, considering that even Solstice has just the usual Alinor style, sometimes propped up on an Argonian socle.I could see a conversation between two npcs about cultural differences being one way. Maybe there could be a group of philosopher-type npcs in, say, the Mages Guild you could interact with, talk to about their beliefs, and they could perhaps mention something about how since they came to Mournhold to study, they understand some aspects of the Tribunal better. I mean, ok, both of those are sorta dorky examples, but I do think it would be nice if non-quest npcs had more to say for themselves than they normally do, and some of that could be related to those cross-cultural details you mentioned. You know, a place where some of this could have played out was in High Isle, in the place set up to treat wounded soldiers from all factions. Steadfast Manor, wasn't it? Been awhile since I was there, so I don't recall how chatty the recuperating npcs were and if you could learn anything from them. Anyway, that would have been a natural place to have people from different parts of the continent share stories and beliefs, and we could have extrapolated that such stories and beliefs would spread from there, when the soldiers went back to their homes.
I think they didn't talk much. But yes, that would have been such a place for conversations of that type. Also the Stirk Fellowship camps we have right now - that would be exactly such a situation where people from completely different factions and cultures might talk about their home, which leads to cultural exchange - from mundane things like some armorers exchanging cooking recipes from their homelands, to battle mages from different factions discussing philosophical ideas.Anyway, I know you're busy (and I hope not getting overwhelmed with bureaucracy), so I'll leave this alone for now.
I'm not overwhelmed that easily It's more pesky than anything, as I'd rather busy myself with other topics.
At least I finished Solstice Part 1 on my other Dunmer yesterday (which sadly didn't take long - I'm not even sure if it's 3 hours if you don't do all extra dialogues because you already know that many of them are rather repetative). But I'll write more on that in my next reply - including many rather strange screenshots. This time I didn't mainly play focused on immersion, but on exploration - I even managed to fall into my death while climbing around in theColored Roomsonce
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭It's also a world with actual magic in it. I think when you introduce actual magic to a world, people trying to make sense of unknown or inexplicable parts of the world is a different process. In our world, people used to attribute to magic or gods things which are now explained by science and a better understanding of the natural world. In Tamriel, there really is magic. How does that affect their striving to make sense of things? We joke about "a wizard did it" but I think that some form of that kind of thinking--not such an obvious flat-out statement like that, but an acknowledgement that magic could be behind some of the inexplicable aspects of life--would be present.
That's an interesting question. I'd expect if most things can indeed be attributed to magic or the (D)Aedra, people would probably assume that there's not much more to it - so scientific efforts would be rather rare. Then again, we know that there are scholars; there are alchemists (although we can argue now of course whether the properties of the plants in this world are magical or natural), I think there was also a doctor somewhere who didn't use magic, and then, although that's a very different field of research, we seem to have a whole bunch of archeologists and historians in Tamriel. Then again, astronomers also seem to be a thing, although that also includes topics of magic and mysticism in this world - but it shows that there's an interest in understanding the world and nature, no matter whether phenomena can be explained by the gods or by other means in the end. Of course it's a rather rare thing - but then again, let's be honest: How many people in the real world think in-depth about the science behind the things in their daily life? How many people care about what exactly happens technically if they get a phone call or send an email or turn on their microwave or tv? How many wonder why the sunrise has a different tint on different days? I'm sure some people don't even notice, let alone think about such things.
There's that quote by Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I think about that sometimes when I consider the technological aspects of our world. Especially considering how much has changed since I was a child. Obviously, we had phones, but you had to be in a specific place to use it, and it had a rotary dial. Push-button phones emerging onto the scene became the new hotness back then, ha. Anyway, the point being, to someone from the (not even distant) past, our current world would seem to be rather magical, and most people do just accept it without question. So it's not that hard to see why the people of Tamriel accept the strangeness or oddities of their world without trying to get to the bottom of the "how" and the "why." That's one thing that sets Sotha Sil and his followers apart, too.
Also, that doctor that didn't use magic: are you thinking of the one in Phaer? Well, his practice didn't end up all that well in the end! (I know, I know, for different reasons, but still.)Like in Khenarthi's Roost, the storm that causes such havoc is due to the Maormer and their magic. If that can happen, it creates a chaotic setting where it doesn't matter what you do, or what habits you develop, everything can be changed regardless. Developing architecture that can withstand the normal elements kind of falls by the wayside when magic can undo all that. So how does that inform the development of their society?
For sure they don't seem to be that protected against all kinds of magic threats, otherwise we wouldn't see all those horrible events that take place in ESO
It's true. We need weird magical events for plot. Or else we'd all just be traveling merchants or farmers or such. Maybe a blacksmith.If a farmer's crops fail inexplicably, does the farmer try to find the explanation by studying variables of soil, weather, and so forth, or just chalk it up to a bad year perhaps, or does the farmer think one of the Daedric princes is behind it? When the people of Tamriel look for explanations, where do their thoughts go?
I'd really like to learn more about such more mundane things in ESO. More about the life of the average person and the different world views people have in different Tamrielic cultures. We get a bit of these small lore things through the antiquity system (when it comes to historical items and habits) and a bit through thievery/contraband items for the current habits, but it could be elaborated on.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons I like the antiquity system so much (despite the exhausting rng of finding certain leads).That's an interesting construct about Vaermina: that she collects your memories and so you're left with nightmare. I've had dreams not based on any explicit memory that weren't nightmares. My nightmares (or, to put it more mildly, unpleasant dreams) often do have memories at their core.
I dream quite often. Positive dreams are mostly about travelling and exploring places that I've never seen before. The negative ones, if I have them at all, are more... phantastical. At least I hope I'll never be confronted with an invisible being hiding in my wardrobe and biting off my right hand (so I had to hunt it down and slay it with my other arm that wasn't just some bloodied stump) in real life
Lol, yes, let's hope your life doesn't turn into a horror movie!I've always wanted to give Punctilious Conflict a try.
It somehow looks like Solitaire to me, just with a slightly different shape. Which would be fun. I'd also be curious about this one, can't remember right now how it's called in ESO (those games all seem to be based on some real-world game):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounds_and_jackals
I wonder if we're thinking of different games when it comes to Punctilious Conflict. Solitaire (or at least the version I'm familiar with) is a card game whereas Punctilious Conflict has a game board with marbles on it that reminds me of the game Go.
Hounds and Jackals reminds me a bit of cribbage (though I'm sure it's not like it) but a wooden board with holes and pegs brings cribbage to mind. Of course, you need cards for cribbage (at least in our times). I don't think I've ever seen that one in ESO, so I don't know what it's called.I would love it if it was easier to fill the empty bookshelves. It's possible, of course, to slot the books in one by one, but it's rather a tedious process. In my Lake Amaya lodge, I have a bedroom set up with a bookshelf that holds all the thirty-six sermons (you know, for some light bedtime reading!) and that took a long time. I also wish it was more like the bookshelves in Skyrim, where you could drop the books in and they'd show up and be accessible.
It would also be nice to somehow be able to reduce the used up furnishing slots by this. It's hard to build a big home library right now if you only have a few slots left for books after you've decently furnished the rest of the home, and then every single book takes another complete slot.
Indeed! It's difficult to create a library with readable books unless you have one of the larger homes. I used the home tour feature to visit someone's home where they had set up a great library, with all the usable lore books. It was quite something!For the weapons and armor, are you thinking of the lore-famous ones, or more like ones our characters have used and valued? It would be kind of neat to, instead of tossing alternate armor sets into a storage chest, arrange them on mannequins. Or weapon racks for the weapons. So you could create an armory in one of your homes if you wanted, or go the route of having a few choice displays, like people used to do with suits of armor in the house and weapons on the walls.
They could give us a few replica furnishings of some famous items (maybe another 40 hour grind for the 15th anniversary ), but I was thinking more of empty racks where we could put what ever weapons and armor we personally would like to display.
That would be nice. I remember doing that in Skyrim in one of my homes. The smithing area you could set up included some armor display mannequins. I think you could also get them in other rooms, too, and of course there were the display cases where, if you positioned yourself just right, you could drop an item into them as if you were displaying it. Something a little less haphazard would be a nice addition to ESO.I wonder if they ever would add crafting write boards and turn-in points to housing. I know there's a common sentiment in MMOs against taking people out of the world, which home crafting would do. In general, they like the cities to look populated by players and "busy." It really wouldn't matter to me; I'm just curious what the ZOS developer philosophy is on the matter.
I would really appreciate that. I don't even think I'd use it, but it would be a solution for people who want to have it done as fastly as possible, so the town design wouldn't have to be adjusted accordingly, for player convenience, - and they could focus more on immersion and atmosphere in towns.
While I would hope more immersion and atmosphere in towns would be the outcome of such a decision, I have my doubts.I just saw the post that the Writhing Wall event starts October 13. So now we know how long the wait is.
What's even stranger: The main camp on Solstice is already there. There are already quests that can be accepted but that end nowhere, because the needed npcs don't exist yet or don't have the needed dialogue, but it's... basically half-ready. The camp also has a physically invisible "wayshrine" (can be discovered - leading to xp gain and then shows as "completed" on the map). Meanwhile, the "world event" labels near the small camps have disappeared from the map again, but still trigger as "discovered" when you somehow pass by those locations. Let's say: There's quite a lot to discover already, but it's, well, obviously bugged and probably not intended to be there yet.
The achievement furnisher also already has the reward item for the Wall event ready. In the UI, there are already lots of achievements listed for it, too. I'm astonished since it's still over a month until it's scheduled to go live; it's not even on PTS yet - there, it's planned to start in about 9 days, I think (Not sure yet whether I'll install PTS this time or not).
Yeah, I'd seen that was happening, but I haven't been in game to check. I'm taking a bit of a break from ESO; not for any particular reason, just have other things grabbing at my attention. I may or may not be interested in doing things for the Undaunted celebration and/or Golden Pursuit coming up.
These kind of bugs are always interesting to me, because I wonder what causes them to happen. I know they have the files/data for upcoming content in game some time before it's officially "live," but most of the time it doesn't show up until it's meant to. Then a case like this comes up, where parts show up, like the first stage of a quest that you can take and work on, but the rest isn't there and I think: how does that happen? I would think it would all be more connected or something, so that if one part showed up, the part it was linked to also would, but like I've said before, I know basically nothing about that kind of programming, so it falls into the "mysterious" and "magical" categories for me.Something I wonder about is the actual size of Tamriel; what does it equate to in our world.
It's really hard to say. What we see in game doesn't really make sense. Riding across a whole zone rarely takes longer than 5 minutes and the next village is usually only about a minute away. And then we have tiny islands that take the same time to traverse like a landmass that's huge on the map, like Telvanni Peninsula, for example. Add to that the different climate zones - it's not plausible. Maybe we could regard it as something like a model and imagine the distances between locations are actually much further apart - but we don't know how far, then.
It'd be nice if there was in-game consistency about travel, though. In the prologue for the worm cult story, Prince Azah has a horse who can take you to whichever of the three destinations you choose to investigate, all in the same day; probably even the same hour! That's some horse! I know that, for the player, travel has to be swift and efficient, but for the story the amount of time any travel takes is not even hinted at except when they want to explain something like why we're waiting months to attack the worm cult--then suddenly ships need time to sail. It's another one of those "game mechanics" versus "story and lore and world building" issues.I think about how geographical distance impacted various cultures and the way the societies developed. The pantheon, for example, is the same for all cultures in Tamriel. They all know of the same divines and daedric princes, and though they interpret them slightly differently, or hold them in different estimation, the entities are the same for all, with perhaps slight changes in the spelling of names. I would think, with a larger landmass and more geographical isolation, there would be larger differences in such beliefs, perhaps even different entities entirely. Then again, this is also a world where people can portal across great distances, so the intermingling of cultural norms and ideas is made easier.
I'd actually like to see a really remote location in game, with its specific cultural ideas that are different to the main land because there was no big cultural exchange at all - that would be interesting. Solstice should be such a place according to background lore - but then in game, for some reason, it comes across as culturally diverse as most other zones. A missed opportunity, from my point of view.
I hope we might still get a bit of that with the Stone Nest Argonians that must be on the East of Solstice - although I expect the story to probably fully focus on the Worm Cult instead. Right now I somehow imagine it basically like the usual Q4 story dlcs that took place in Daedric realms - lots of Coldharbour. The mortals mixed in might give it a bit of the atmosphere we had in the Deadlands, with the mortal settlements that ended up there (especially Wretched Spire; it was a nice lore moment, by the way, to see that place and realize that it's indeed Old Mournhold) - basically mortals surviving in a threatening daedric environment. And Worm Cultists pacting with the daedra, for what ever reason.
I'm hoping for quite a lot with the Stone Nest tribe. It's so different for them to have not given up Xanmeer living that I want to know why, and what beliefs/traditions/ideas informed that for them. I hope there really is a good foundation for why they still use Xanmeers, and not simply a "different just because" scenario. I'll probably be disappointed in what we get, though that's what happens when I build up something in my mind that the developers never had the intention of portraying.There is a strange feeling of isolation to some of the areas; as if all they know is what is happening in their zone. You know the two npcs who basically announce Elsweyr? "Dragons, in your own homeland, what are you going to do?" "This one does not know, but he hopes his family is safe in Riverhold." So they're there, in whatever city for each faction, and they're a tiny bit of world building and lore, and their presence does make the dragon attacks feel like they are impacting the world, not just the few specific spots in Elsweyr. However, once you complete both sections of Elsweyr, those npcs are gone. We never find out if his family was safe, or what he's going to do now, or anything. Granted, we don't need to know any of that, but that small kind of detail being missing does contribute to that isolation as well as that feeling of nothing changing. So I really do hope they continue with moving the timeline forward and will represent somehow changes to the world.
It's interesting actually that while no one usually seems to know what's going on in other zones, the people of Solstice all know about the Worm Cult and what not
Ha, very true! I actually hadn't considered that. Maybe their Three Queens keep them in the loop. Oh, wait, no. I remember a couple of npcs talking about their casual travels through the mainland. They probably brought back all the hot gossip and news items to their remote and hard to reach island surrounded by stormy seas.I could see a conversation between two npcs about cultural differences being one way. Maybe there could be a group of philosopher-type npcs in, say, the Mages Guild you could interact with, talk to about their beliefs, and they could perhaps mention something about how since they came to Mournhold to study, they understand some aspects of the Tribunal better. I mean, ok, both of those are sorta dorky examples, but I do think it would be nice if non-quest npcs had more to say for themselves than they normally do, and some of that could be related to those cross-cultural details you mentioned. You know, a place where some of this could have played out was in High Isle, in the place set up to treat wounded soldiers from all factions. Steadfast Manor, wasn't it? Been awhile since I was there, so I don't recall how chatty the recuperating npcs were and if you could learn anything from them. Anyway, that would have been a natural place to have people from different parts of the continent share stories and beliefs, and we could have extrapolated that such stories and beliefs would spread from there, when the soldiers went back to their homes.
I think they didn't talk much. But yes, that would have been such a place for conversations of that type. Also the Stirk Fellowship camps we have right now - that would be exactly such a situation where people from completely different factions and cultures might talk about their home, which leads to cultural exchange - from mundane things like some armorers exchanging cooking recipes from their homelands, to battle mages from different factions discussing philosophical ideas.
Right, and since we know from the Loremaster's Archive that these people are talking to each other (though it was framed only as disagreements/tense situations between factions), it is a really good chance for some of that cultural exchange that doesn't involve a dimwit representative fumbling their way through various tasks.Anyway, I know you're busy (and I hope not getting overwhelmed with bureaucracy), so I'll leave this alone for now.
I'm not overwhelmed that easily It's more pesky than anything, as I'd rather busy myself with other topics.
At least I finished Solstice Part 1 on my other Dunmer yesterday (which sadly didn't take long - I'm not even sure if it's 3 hours if you don't do all extra dialogues because you already know that many of them are rather repetative). But I'll write more on that in my next reply - including many rather strange screenshots. This time I didn't mainly play focused on immersion, but on exploration - I even managed to fall into my death while climbing around in theColored Roomsonce
I look forward to the screenshots! I admit I'm not entirely adventurous as an explorer these days. Part of that is the wonky way jumping works (or more often doesn't) in this game, and part of that is my fear of falling off a ledge that translates to in-game. Even though I know it's no big deal if my characters fall to their deaths, I still get apprehensive of it. Besides, what if the next time they re-form from the oblivion goo, their nose isn't quite right or something? I can't take that chance! 0 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭I like having a bad guy or group. But then again, I'm not one of those players who skip listening or reading about the quest I'm doing. Or one of those players who complain because it didn't go the way they thought it should go. TES games have always been this way, and that's why I like them. It's a story that you get to be in.0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I like having a bad guy or group. But then again, I'm not one of those players who skip listening or reading about the quest I'm doing. Or one of those players who complain because it didn't go the way they thought it should go. TES games have always been this way, and that's why I like them. It's a story that you get to be in.
For me it's not so much about whether the story goes the way I thought it should as whether or not it makes sense for the world and the characters. Having the Worm Cult back in power suddenly just because the plot needs them isn't as compelling to me as if they show how they rose back to power.
I do like being immersed in the world of The Elder Scrolls, that's for sure. It's a great world to play around in.1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's that quote by Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I think about that sometimes when I consider the technological aspects of our world. Especially considering how much has changed since I was a child. Obviously, we had phones, but you had to be in a specific place to use it, and it had a rotary dial. Push-button phones emerging onto the scene became the new hotness back then, ha.
We still had a rotary dial phone until the early 1990's Not that button phones weren't available earlier, there was just no use to buy a new one if the old one was still functioning, I guess. I think the only reason my parents got a new one was that it had an answering machine which the old one obviously had not. I also can remember carrying a phone card with me as a kid when I was outside, so I could call home if there was any trouble (never needed it). I still remember all locations where a phone booth had been in this neighborhood. The more I think about it, the first few years, even phone cards didn't exist yet - the phones were coin-operated. Communication was different compared to today. Actually I liked that better, not being able to be contacted at all times Now people expect you to be available all the time and act weirdly if you're not answering for a few minutes.Anyway, the point being, to someone from the (not even distant) past, our current world would seem to be rather magical, and most people do just accept it without question. So it's not that hard to see why the people of Tamriel accept the strangeness or oddities of their world without trying to get to the bottom of the "how" and the "why." That's one thing that sets Sotha Sil and his followers apart, too.
Another aspect is probably that people in Tamriel just can't access information that easily. We know nothing about how common schools are in Tamriel and how they look like - just that for some reason almost everyone seems to be able to read - , but I somehow don't think the average farmer in some remote village will have received higher education. So they'd probably not have learned about many things in school, just the basics, and if they'd want to learn more about a topic, they'd have to search for either a scholar who knows about it, or they'd have to buy or lend a book about it somewhere. Now where's the next book store or publicly accessible library? And then it's not even sure that a book on that topic is available there. Maybe the different halls of the Mages Guild could be seen as something like a library consortium and they could also transport books from one hall to another on demand, but it would probably be quite a wait until you get what you're searching for (even worse than the waiting times interlibrary loan services took in the real world 1990's ). Compared to that, the situation we have in reality today, where you can access documents on every topic you can think of immediatey through the internet, indeed feels like magic. But then, sadly, many people don't seem to use this opportunity at all but only use the internet for Tiktok videos Also, that doctor that didn't use magic: are you thinking of the one in Phaer? Well, his practice didn't end up all that well in the end! (I know, I know, for different reasons, but still.)
Wasn't there another one on Vvardenfell?It's true. We need weird magical events for plot. Or else we'd all just be traveling merchants or farmers or such. Maybe a blacksmith.
I'd probably spend my time exploring Dwemer ruins.Agreed. This is one of the reasons I like the antiquity system so much (despite the exhausting rng of finding certain leads).
For the lore, this was indeed a wonderful addition to the game. Can't emphasize it enough - sadly, I rarely see people mentioning that aspect. It's always about how the grind is annoying or how some new mythic is useful or not, but I rarely see anyone mentioning the lore aspect of the antiquity system. Sad. It's really well done!Lol, yes, let's hope your life doesn't turn into a horror movie!
At least when it comes to invisible beings living in wardrobes, I think that's rather unlikely.I wonder if we're thinking of different games when it comes to Punctilious Conflict. Solitaire (or at least the version I'm familiar with) is a card game whereas Punctilious Conflict has a game board with marbles on it that reminds me of the game Go.
I know there's also a card game of the same name, but I meant this game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peg_solitaireHounds and Jackals reminds me a bit of cribbage (though I'm sure it's not like it) but a wooden board with holes and pegs brings cribbage to mind. Of course, you need cards for cribbage (at least in our times). I don't think I've ever seen that one in ESO, so I don't know what it's called.
I checked it, it's this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hlaalu_Gaming_Table,_Foxes_&_FelinesIndeed! It's difficult to create a library with readable books unless you have one of the larger homes. I used the home tour feature to visit someone's home where they had set up a great library, with all the usable lore books. It was quite something!
I have collected all readable book furnishings I can collect (some, maybe 5 or 6 or so, I couldn't buy from Ool because I haven't found the original - because it's placed in some group dungeon thing, Bastion Nymic or who knows where), but I didn't have the time to actually place all of them yet.That would be nice. I remember doing that in Skyrim in one of my homes. The smithing area you could set up included some armor display mannequins. I think you could also get them in other rooms, too, and of course there were the display cases where, if you positioned yourself just right, you could drop an item into them as if you were displaying it. Something a little less haphazard would be a nice addition to ESO.
It's strange there isn't even some random, average looking dagger furnishing yet. When it comes to blades, all I can think of right now is the Blade of Woe (expensive, from an achievement or zone furnisher, I think) and I think there was also some Redguard sword furnishing dropping from antiquities, but that one was really huge and fancy.I may or may not be interested in doing things for the Undaunted celebration and/or Golden Pursuit coming up.
I think I'll be speedrunning through Fungal Grotto quite often because I need event writs since I want another Dwemer car.These kind of bugs are always interesting to me, because I wonder what causes them to happen. I know they have the files/data for upcoming content in game some time before it's officially "live," but most of the time it doesn't show up until it's meant to. Then a case like this comes up, where parts show up, like the first stage of a quest that you can take and work on, but the rest isn't there and I think: how does that happen? I would think it would all be more connected or something, so that if one part showed up, the part it was linked to also would, but like I've said before, I know basically nothing about that kind of programming, so it falls into the "mysterious" and "magical" categories for me.
I imagine everything basically has an on/off trigger somehow and they just forgot that it should still be set to "off" in the current update. I found the camp interesting to explore so far, but it was probably very confusing for new player who just started questing there.It'd be nice if there was in-game consistency about travel, though. In the prologue for the worm cult story, Prince Azah has a horse who can take you to whichever of the three destinations you choose to investigate, all in the same day; probably even the same hour! That's some horse! I know that, for the player, travel has to be swift and efficient, but for the story the amount of time any travel takes is not even hinted at except when they want to explain something like why we're waiting months to attack the worm cult--then suddenly ships need time to sail. It's another one of those "game mechanics" versus "story and lore and world building" issues.
It also bothers me. The singleplayer games are stricter in that regard: Fast travel always costs you a certain amount of time, depending on the travel distance and method. Especially in Morrowind it really made a big difference whether you were using silt striders, ships or, if you needed to be somewhere really fast, the teleportation service of the Mages Guild (with that you'd really arrive at a different location immediately, while boating could cost you 8 hours and more to get from one place to another). Now, ESO being an MMO leads to difficulties in that regard, of course. The time has to be the same for everyone. I was actually astonished that they included a screen telling you about "one day passing" in the excavation minigame.I'm hoping for quite a lot with the Stone Nest tribe. It's so different for them to have not given up Xanmeer living that I want to know why, and what beliefs/traditions/ideas informed that for them. I hope there really is a good foundation for why they still use Xanmeers, and not simply a "different just because" scenario. I'll probably be disappointed in what we get, though that's what happens when I build up something in my mind that the developers never had the intention of portraying.
Who knows. I'm personally not too optimistic since I think we can be sure that any Stone Nest settlement is besieged or occupied by the Worm Cult right now. I can't really imagine there being any free and unbothered settlement not affected by what's going on. So the focus of the stories will probably rather be "free the settlement from the Worm Cult" than any deep dive into their traditions.Ha, very true! I actually hadn't considered that. Maybe their Three Queens keep them in the loop. Oh, wait, no. I remember a couple of npcs talking about their casual travels through the mainland. They probably brought back all the hot gossip and news items to their remote and hard to reach island surrounded by stormy seas.
At the end of the prologue, Azah told us that it's such a mysterious and unknown location that it can't even be found on maps and that it would take months to research where it is and how to get there (that was the explanation for why there's a longer gap between the prologue and Part 1 of the chapter story). Let's say that led to expectations that weren't quite met when I finally arrived on Solstice and saw all those settlers, traders and who knows whom from all kinds of different cultures there.Right, and since we know from the Loremaster's Archive that these people are talking to each other (though it was framed only as disagreements/tense situations between factions), it is a really good chance for some of that cultural exchange that doesn't involve a dimwit representative fumbling their way through various tasks.
Cultural exchange happens everywhere. Even through horrible events like war. And actually not even through allies alone - in real world history we can see that even war captivity led to exchange. Because people are talking. And people will always get new impressions and learn things by being around individuals of other cultures. They'll see and hear things and talk about them when they arrive back home, and if it's something they found interesting or useful, the idea will spread.I look forward to the screenshots! I admit I'm not entirely adventurous as an explorer these days. Part of that is the wonky way jumping works (or more often doesn't) in this game
Yeah, the jumping really feels a little strange in ESO. Especially the way you bounce off if you hit some obstacle. Also, there are often steps or rocks that don't even look that huge, but you still can't climb them - feels a little arbitrary at times. And invisible walls make it even more difficult. It's actually a clear sign one's supposed to not bother with these areas, but I'm just too curious sometimesand part of that is my fear of falling off a ledge that translates to in-game. Even though I know it's no big deal if my characters fall to their deaths, I still get apprehensive of it. Besides, what if the next time they re-form from the oblivion goo, their nose isn't quite right or something? I can't take that chance!
We're really lucky our character doesn't spawn with a new random face after each death.
Anyway, let's start with the first and second part (I'll split it a little):
Part 1, At The Harbour, Entering Sunport.
(Don't worry, I have no intention of repeating everything I want to mostly focus on new aspects that caught my attention. Some remarks, some new ideas. Lots of silly screenshots this time, which is the main reason I'll put these in spoiler boxes - not that I think that much could be spoiled at this point, but with all those pictures, my post could get a little long. Feel free to reply/comment without spoiler boxes.)I have the impression that the starting dialogue was corrected - at least in German - the part about the "dwindling wall" is gone, for example. Those corrections are very much appreciated. Unfortunately, the problem with the overall repetativeness hasn't improved - we're still treated as if we're fruit flies (which have an attention span of 4 seconds - that's scientifically proven ) and get the same term explained like three times within a minute. That's just not necessary. The same goes for describing to us once more what we just saw on screen (like what happened to Farinor).
Then I noticed that there are several NPCs around the harbour that all basically say the displacement of the Corelanya by the Ra Gada was justified because they were evil necromancers. Even Altmer tell us this. They all have this very same opinion - "they're evil, so it was fine". It's very strange if everyone has the same opinion on this, because from my point of view, it's easy to see the situation very differently - even as a non-Altmer and non-necromancer. So if every NPC tells us the same moral reasoning, it sounds like this is supposed to be the "truth" for the world, or the way the author sees the situation, but I don't really find that plausible in terms of lore and immersion. In a realistic world, people have very different opinions, after all. This is basically another situation like everyone telling us about how tolerant everyone here is and how awesome it is to protect the environment, etc - no realistic world with diverse views, but everyone makes exactly the same moral judgement, which makes it feel like a moral lecture. I'm not saying it's intended as such (I'm wondering whether they just didn't want to get deeper into the topic or they just basically recycled the dialogue for different characters? I have seen something like that several times in this zone, that a dialogue was repeated by different characters almost identically, sometimes just worded slightly differently), but how it feels to me, and that, especially in a game where you're supposed to also be able to play an immoral character, I don't find that fitting. To add to that: I liked the Corelanya Manor quest for different reasons, but one of them was indeed that no judgement was made for us when it came to the necromancer there - we could fully decide for ourselves what to think about him and about what had happened at that place in the past.
But back to Sunport: Friends here, friends there. Many people whom you just met calling you a "friend". Strangers talking about "our friends from the mainland" (or from the Fellowship or how ever they worded it) and finding it awesome that help has arrived - to me personally, it felt like too much, and specially unjustified, praise at that point. Because we've basically done nothing yet. I mean, yes, I know, some players enjoy being the big, celebrated hero. But maybe (I don't know, I'm not one of them) they'd also prefer it to feel justified - because if praise is used excessively, it doesn't feel meaningful anymore.
Part 2, A Message From The Worm Cult Parcel Service Oh No, An Attack!Searching the manor for traces - another situation where I got the impression that players aren't really supposed (or expected) to explore anymore (just like the thing with the sarcophagus that we can find without even having started the main quest). There's a person upstairs from the very beginning, but we can't talk to that NPC if we haven't found the clues downstairs first - until the quest progresses, the person upstairs is there, but just isn't interactable. And then when we've found the traces downstairs, it's suddenly "Wait! There's someone upstairs!"... They could at least have her just appear later from the (locked) door at the side or so. Or make it possible to skip the other clues if finding her and talking to her first.
NPC extra dialogue also doesn't so much in this quest, by the way, as they only repeat exactly that we had found out just before (e.g. we see a door is magically blocked - "The door is magically blocked!"). I truly like the voice actors, I really do, but in such situations, I'd rather like them to tell me new info instead of what I've just read or seen anyway.
And then there's the dialogue where the queen in her pink plastic gown tells me "The necromancers promised to steal my soul!"... (We reply by telling her we're from the Stirk Fellowship, by the way, although I'm not sure whether we're actually telling her the truth ).
"Be silent, the Worm Cult is right behind this door!" - except for it isn't; it's another half a dozen of rooms or so until we're at the exit of the building and finally see the first cultist. Seems to be a case of an npc placed at the wrong spot (or moved during quest design without changing the dialogue accordingly - we had several such situations in the current story).
But then, it gets interesting. Or maybe not. Depending on what we see is actually supposed to be this way or it might just be bugged. Since the moment we leave the building, we see an unmasked projection of Wormblood on the left side. Weird hair.
Since I wasn't quite satisfied with this screenshot, I went inside again - and triggered the scene another time upon leaving the building once more
Because this still wasn't perfect, I returned into the building and had dinner. Left it again an hour later:
What to make of this now?I like having a bad guy or group. But then again, I'm not one of those players who skip listening or reading about the quest I'm doing. Or one of those players who complain because it didn't go the way they thought it should go. TES games have always been this way, and that's why I like them. It's a story that you get to be in.
It's all about the how: How is it written? Is it plausible for the world and lore? Does it feel immersive and "realistic"?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭There's that quote by Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I think about that sometimes when I consider the technological aspects of our world. Especially considering how much has changed since I was a child. Obviously, we had phones, but you had to be in a specific place to use it, and it had a rotary dial. Push-button phones emerging onto the scene became the new hotness back then, ha.
We still had a rotary dial phone until the early 1990's Not that button phones weren't available earlier, there was just no use to buy a new one if the old one was still functioning, I guess. I think the only reason my parents got a new one was that it had an answering machine which the old one obviously had not. I also can remember carrying a phone card with me as a kid when I was outside, so I could call home if there was any trouble (never needed it). I still remember all locations where a phone booth had been in this neighborhood. The more I think about it, the first few years, even phone cards didn't exist yet - the phones were coin-operated. Communication was different compared to today. Actually I liked that better, not being able to be contacted at all times Now people expect you to be available all the time and act weirdly if you're not answering for a few minutes.
Thankfully, no one who knows me ever expects me to be on top of my phone texts and this is largely due to the fact that I did not have a cell phone for a very long time. So by the time I finally got one, everyone was already in the habit of not trying to reach me. Yes! Perfect rollout of my plan!Anyway, the point being, to someone from the (not even distant) past, our current world would seem to be rather magical, and most people do just accept it without question. So it's not that hard to see why the people of Tamriel accept the strangeness or oddities of their world without trying to get to the bottom of the "how" and the "why." That's one thing that sets Sotha Sil and his followers apart, too.
Another aspect is probably that people in Tamriel just can't access information that easily. We know nothing about how common schools are in Tamriel and how they look like - just that for some reason almost everyone seems to be able to read - , but I somehow don't think the average farmer in some remote village will have received higher education. So they'd probably not have learned about many things in school, just the basics, and if they'd want to learn more about a topic, they'd have to search for either a scholar who knows about it, or they'd have to buy or lend a book about it somewhere. Now where's the next book store or publicly accessible library?
Seems to me it's the nearest Aylied ruin! But I know, I know, the common people tend to not go adventuring in those.And then it's not even sure that a book on that topic is available there. Maybe the different halls of the Mages Guild could be seen as something like a library consortium and they could also transport books from one hall to another on demand, but it would probably be quite a wait until you get what you're searching for (even worse than the waiting times interlibrary loan services took in the real world 1990's ). Compared to that, the situation we have in reality today, where you can access documents on every topic you can think of immediatey through the internet, indeed feels like magic. But then, sadly, many people don't seem to use this opportunity at all but only use the internet for Tiktok videos
Does the Mages Guild even lend out their books? I mean, among mages and guild chapters I assume they do, but can a regular Tamriel person just walk in and ask to see a book about herbology?
Hmm...was there? Was it someone who was treating that old Telvanni up north in Tel Mora? I can't recall right now.
You'd be in direct competition with the Vanos twins. Of course, you'd likely be fine, since Kireth always gets lost or cornered, and Raynor stays outside inventing things that may or may not prove useful.Agreed. This is one of the reasons I like the antiquity system so much (despite the exhausting rng of finding certain leads).
For the lore, this was indeed a wonderful addition to the game. Can't emphasize it enough - sadly, I rarely see people mentioning that aspect. It's always about how the grind is annoying or how some new mythic is useful or not, but I rarely see anyone mentioning the lore aspect of the antiquity system. Sad. It's really well done!
It's kind of why I wish they hadn't added gear to the antiquity system. I much prefer it as a lore-delivery system that also gives us some interesting things to display in our homes. Then maybe that way all the leads could be a little less irritating to find. I don't mind having to go about in the world to find leads, but I do think ZOS makes them artificially harder to obtain in order to stretch out the antiquity content. That's MMO life, though, I suppose. Gotta have those grinds...I guess.I wonder if we're thinking of different games when it comes to Punctilious Conflict. Solitaire (or at least the version I'm familiar with) is a card game whereas Punctilious Conflict has a game board with marbles on it that reminds me of the game Go.
I know there's also a card game of the same name, but I meant this game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peg_solitaire
Oh yeah, I have played the peg solitaire version before, though I don't think I was aware it was called that. The name of Punctilious Conflict makes me think it's not a solitary game, however.
Is that what's available this quarter for the morphing collectible? I know the next quarter is a house.It'd be nice if there was in-game consistency about travel, though. In the prologue for the worm cult story, Prince Azah has a horse who can take you to whichever of the three destinations you choose to investigate, all in the same day; probably even the same hour! That's some horse! I know that, for the player, travel has to be swift and efficient, but for the story the amount of time any travel takes is not even hinted at except when they want to explain something like why we're waiting months to attack the worm cult--then suddenly ships need time to sail. It's another one of those "game mechanics" versus "story and lore and world building" issues.
It also bothers me. The singleplayer games are stricter in that regard: Fast travel always costs you a certain amount of time, depending on the travel distance and method. Especially in Morrowind it really made a big difference whether you were using silt striders, ships or, if you needed to be somewhere really fast, the teleportation service of the Mages Guild (with that you'd really arrive at a different location immediately, while boating could cost you 8 hours and more to get from one place to another). Now, ESO being an MMO leads to difficulties in that regard, of course. The time has to be the same for everyone. I was actually astonished that they included a screen telling you about "one day passing" in the excavation minigame.
Right, but even then, one day is really fast to send an artifact and receive information back about it. Speedy overnight delivery! I saw a screenshot recently in a post here on the forums, and the person must be using a real time add-on, because the Tamrielic day, month, and year appeared on the screenshot. I think the year was 629 (but I could be misremembering). I thought it was interesting because it showed that players have decided to track time their own way.I'm hoping for quite a lot with the Stone Nest tribe. It's so different for them to have not given up Xanmeer living that I want to know why, and what beliefs/traditions/ideas informed that for them. I hope there really is a good foundation for why they still use Xanmeers, and not simply a "different just because" scenario. I'll probably be disappointed in what we get, though that's what happens when I build up something in my mind that the developers never had the intention of portraying.
Who knows. I'm personally not too optimistic since I think we can be sure that any Stone Nest settlement is besieged or occupied by the Worm Cult right now. I can't really imagine there being any free and unbothered settlement not affected by what's going on. So the focus of the stories will probably rather be "free the settlement from the Worm Cult" than any deep dive into their traditions.
Oh, I know that's most likely the case, but I still hope for more! Remember: foolish optimist here.Ha, very true! I actually hadn't considered that. Maybe their Three Queens keep them in the loop. Oh, wait, no. I remember a couple of npcs talking about their casual travels through the mainland. They probably brought back all the hot gossip and news items to their remote and hard to reach island surrounded by stormy seas.
At the end of the prologue, Azah told us that it's such a mysterious and unknown location that it can't even be found on maps and that it would take months to research where it is and how to get there (that was the explanation for why there's a longer gap between the prologue and Part 1 of the chapter story). Let's say that led to expectations that weren't quite met when I finally arrived on Solstice and saw all those settlers, traders and who knows whom from all kinds of different cultures there.
It is indeed very inconsistent. I remember being surprised when talking to NPCs who told me they spent time on the mainland and learned about our customs and whatnot. They acted like it was no big deal, the equivalent of a gap year between high school and college, and it made me think, "Then why was it supposedly so hard to find this island?"Right, and since we know from the Loremaster's Archive that these people are talking to each other (though it was framed only as disagreements/tense situations between factions), it is a really good chance for some of that cultural exchange that doesn't involve a dimwit representative fumbling their way through various tasks.
Cultural exchange happens everywhere. Even through horrible events like war. And actually not even through allies alone - in real world history we can see that even war captivity led to exchange. Because people are talking. And people will always get new impressions and learn things by being around individuals of other cultures. They'll see and hear things and talk about them when they arrive back home, and if it's something they found interesting or useful, the idea will spread.
I agree, and that's why I wish they would show that kind of cultural exchange rather than the Rigurt type.I look forward to the screenshots! I admit I'm not entirely adventurous as an explorer these days. Part of that is the wonky way jumping works (or more often doesn't) in this game
Yeah, the jumping really feels a little strange in ESO. Especially the way you bounce off if you hit some obstacle. Also, there are often steps or rocks that don't even look that huge, but you still can't climb them - feels a little arbitrary at times. And invisible walls make it even more difficult. It's actually a clear sign one's supposed to not bother with these areas, but I'm just too curious sometimes
Well, you know how the old saying goes: curiosity killed the Telvanni!Anyway, let's start with the first and second part (I'll split it a little):
Part 1, At The Harbour, Entering Sunport.
(Don't worry, I have no intention of repeating everything I want to mostly focus on new aspects that caught my attention. Some remarks, some new ideas. Lots of silly screenshots this time, which is the main reason I'll put these in spoiler boxes - not that I think that much could be spoiled at this point, but with all those pictures, my post could get a little long. Feel free to reply/comment without spoiler boxes.)I have the impression that the starting dialogue was corrected - at least in German - the part about the "dwindling wall" is gone, for example. Those corrections are very much appreciated. Unfortunately, the problem with the overall repetativeness hasn't improved - we're still treated as if we're fruit flies (which have an attention span of 4 seconds - that's scientifically proven ) and get the same term explained like three times within a minute. That's just not necessary. The same goes for describing to us once more what we just saw on screen (like what happened to Farinor).
Then I noticed that there are several NPCs around the harbour that all basically say the displacement of the Corelanya by the Ra Gada was justified because they were evil necromancers. Even Altmer tell us this. They all have this very same opinion - "they're evil, so it was fine". It's very strange if everyone has the same opinion on this, because from my point of view, it's easy to see the situation very differently - even as a non-Altmer and non-necromancer. So if every NPC tells us the same moral reasoning, it sounds like this is supposed to be the "truth" for the world, or the way the author sees the situation, but I don't really find that plausible in terms of lore and immersion. In a realistic world, people have very different opinions, after all. This is basically another situation like everyone telling us about how tolerant everyone here is and how awesome it is to protect the environment, etc - no realistic world with diverse views, but everyone makes exactly the same moral judgement, which makes it feel like a moral lecture. I'm not saying it's intended as such (I'm wondering whether they just didn't want to get deeper into the topic or they just basically recycled the dialogue for different characters? I have seen something like that several times in this zone, that a dialogue was repeated by different characters almost identically, sometimes just worded slightly differently), but how it feels to me, and that, especially in a game where you're supposed to also be able to play an immoral character, I don't find that fitting. To add to that: I liked the Corelanya Manor quest for different reasons, but one of them was indeed that no judgement was made for us when it came to the necromancer there - we could fully decide for ourselves what to think about him and about what had happened at that place in the past.
But back to Sunport: Friends here, friends there. Many people whom you just met calling you a "friend". Strangers talking about "our friends from the mainland" (or from the Fellowship or how ever they worded it) and finding it awesome that help has arrived - to me personally, it felt like too much, and specially unjustified, praise at that point. Because we've basically done nothing yet. I mean, yes, I know, some players enjoy being the big, celebrated hero. But maybe (I don't know, I'm not one of them) they'd also prefer it to feel justified - because if praise is used excessively, it doesn't feel meaningful anymore.
Was there no screenshot for that first section? (Just curious!)
I really would prefer differing viewpoints expressed about the past of the Corelanya clan. I understand there would be the official stance by various heads of state or leaders, but what about individuals forming their own opinions?
There's one place I can think of right off where npcs don't treat us with praise and welcoming, and it's a little conversation outside the crafting area in Sunport. Someone from the Stirk Fellowship is complaining about not being made welcome (maybe she should have been outside with us!) and an Argonian says, "Well, how would you feel if an army just showed up?"
Like you, I don't want to be treated as the big, grand hero. My characters are just going through the world, acting as they see fit and as fits with their character.Part 2, A Message From The Worm Cult Parcel Service Oh No, An Attack!Searching the manor for traces - another situation where I got the impression that players aren't really supposed (or expected) to explore anymore (just like the thing with the sarcophagus that we can find without even having started the main quest). There's a person upstairs from the very beginning, but we can't talk to that NPC if we haven't found the clues downstairs first - until the quest progresses, the person upstairs is there, but just isn't interactable. And then when we've found the traces downstairs, it's suddenly "Wait! There's someone upstairs!"... They could at least have her just appear later from the (locked) door at the side or so. Or make it possible to skip the other clues if finding her and talking to her first.
NPC extra dialogue also doesn't so much in this quest, by the way, as they only repeat exactly that we had found out just before (e.g. we see a door is magically blocked - "The door is magically blocked!"). I truly like the voice actors, I really do, but in such situations, I'd rather like them to tell me new info instead of what I've just read or seen anyway.
And then there's the dialogue where the queen in her pink plastic gown tells me "The necromancers promised to steal my soul!"... (We reply by telling her we're from the Stirk Fellowship, by the way, although I'm not sure whether we're actually telling her the truth ).
"Be silent, the Worm Cult is right behind this door!" - except for it isn't; it's another half a dozen of rooms or so until we're at the exit of the building and finally see the first cultist. Seems to be a case of an npc placed at the wrong spot (or moved during quest design without changing the dialogue accordingly - we had several such situations in the current story).
But then, it gets interesting. Or maybe not. Depending on what we see is actually supposed to be this way or it might just be bugged. Since the moment we leave the building, we see an unmasked projection of Wormblood on the left side. Weird hair.
Since I wasn't quite satisfied with this screenshot, I went inside again - and triggered the scene another time upon leaving the building once more
Because this still wasn't perfect, I returned into the building and had dinner. Left it again an hour later:
What to make of this now?
Ah, see, that's the part I mentioned for my second playthrough, where I thought he wasn't wearing a mask, but I wasn't able to get a good enough view (jumping fail on my part yet again!). I did try to go back in through the door to reset it, but it didn't reset for me, so I wasn't able to try a better position.
So what does it mean that he's not wearing a mask there? Anything? Nothing? A simple oversight? Maybe they never expected anyone to investigate that closely? I do think it's interesting, but whether or not it actually matters is a different matter.
I agree that the lead up investigation to it all is a bit too scripted. If you deviate from the path they've set out, or explore more than where the arrows point, it's all for nothing. Just follow the marks on the set and say your lines like a good little hero. I get there's only so much they can do to make it seem organic, but the way we aren't given the slightest leeway in how we approach it can feel a bit dull.
What's funny to me about the Regent's dress is that it's not an original style--we've seen it before in Alinor. So whatever else the Corelanya Elves do, they seem to keep up with the current fashions on the mainland. I do think hers looks extra shiny, though; maybe it's the dye. Some dyes are more shimmering than others.
Those are some excellent screenshots, by the way! All up close and personal with Wormblood.
0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thankfully, no one who knows me ever expects me to be on top of my phone texts and this is largely due to the fact that I did not have a cell phone for a very long time. So by the time I finally got one, everyone was already in the habit of not trying to reach me. Yes! Perfect rollout of my plan!
I didn't have one for a long time either, and right now I only have an old one with very basic functions, but still, everyone expects me to react immediately if there's a call. It's strange. They could understand that, if I don't accept a call, it might mean that I'm, well, busy? I really miss the times when being outside meant that you weren't availableDoes the Mages Guild even lend out their books? I mean, among mages and guild chapters I assume they do, but can a regular Tamriel person just walk in and ask to see a book about herbology?
There's no lore on that, but I actually think it would fit the proclaimed aim to spread knowledge and make it available for the common people. I don't think they'd lend out rare or dangerous books to random individuals, but books about more common topics - why not?Hmm...was there? Was it someone who was treating that old Telvanni up north in Tel Mora? I can't recall right now.
Nah, I think Balmora or Suran, but I can't really remember either right now.You'd be in direct competition with the Vanos twins. Of course, you'd likely be fine, since Kireth always gets lost or cornered, and Raynor stays outside inventing things that may or may not prove useful.
I'd be more concerned about Neramo.It's kind of why I wish they hadn't added gear to the antiquity system. I much prefer it as a lore-delivery system that also gives us some interesting things to display in our homes. Then maybe that way all the leads could be a little less irritating to find. I don't mind having to go about in the world to find leads, but I do think ZOS makes them artificially harder to obtain in order to stretch out the antiquity content. That's MMO life, though, I suppose. Gotta have those grinds...I guess.
I agree. I also see posts of group dungeon and trial people conplaining about having to grind for mythics despite having no interest in overland content or the antiquity system at all. I don't like that kind of design - pushing people into completely different activities that are not related to the reward and might not be fun/interesting for them. Same thing about putting basic housing structures (like a Dunmer arch or Dwemer windows) behind achievements for group dungeons. I have nothing against having furniture as achievements for dungeons, but why not some special artifact related to the dungeon, basically like a trophy to showcase? Basic structures, on the other hand, should be easily available for everyone who has an interest in housing, in my opinion.Oh yeah, I have played the peg solitaire version before, though I don't think I was aware it was called that. The name of Punctilious Conflict makes me think it's not a solitary game, however.
The name sounds more like it's supposed to be played against another person (or several), yes. But it does look like Solitaire somehow, nonetheless.Is that what's available this quarter for the morphing collectible? I know the next quarter is a house.
Yes, a Dwemer car for Q3 and a house for Q4. I already skipped the last event which was PvP, so I have to catch up a little, I guess.Right, but even then, one day is really fast to send an artifact and receive information back about it. Speedy overnight delivery!
Mages Guild portal service. Well, no, for that it would be too slow.I saw a screenshot recently in a post here on the forums, and the person must be using a real time add-on, because the Tamrielic day, month, and year appeared on the screenshot. I think the year was 629 (but I could be misremembering). I thought it was interesting because it showed that players have decided to track time their own way.
629? Then it was probably an add on using this thing:
https://esoclock.uesp.net/
It counts the day/night cycles since the game started.It is indeed very inconsistent. I remember being surprised when talking to NPCs who told me they spent time on the mainland and learned about our customs and whatnot. They acted like it was no big deal, the equivalent of a gap year between high school and college, and it made me think, "Then why was it supposedly so hard to find this island?"
To me it felt like they made up the whole "hard to find island" thing only to explain the time gap between the prologue and the release of Part 1 - and then possibly forgot about that lore bit while writing the rest...
While we're talking about inconsistencies: I had just noticed another funny thing with the new UI thing giving the distance of locations. It also shows a distance for the individual map marker. In this case I had marked some place on Solstice before, then travelled to the South of Auridon - and from there it showed 12 km to the marker on Solstice - that's about 7.5 miles.I agree, and that's why I wish they would show that kind of cultural exchange rather than the Rigurt type.
I mean, by itself, the idea of having some kind of official envoy visiting the new pact allies isn't such a bad story - including the representative behaving clumsily due to personal flaws or also cultural misunderstandings. But the whole thing got overused, from my point of view. And most of all, it's not the only way how cultural ideas are exchanged, of course, so I'd also like to see more variety there, if they want to include that topic (which would be realistic, considering how much travel there is right now on Tamriel).Well, you know how the old saying goes: curiosity killed the Telvanni!
Either curiosity, or a rival, or an angry lover - it's a dangerous life!Was there no screenshot for that first section? (Just curious!)
Nah, but the last few parts will have more. First part wasn't really that exciting.I really would prefer differing viewpoints expressed about the past of the Corelanya clan. I understand there would be the official stance by various heads of state or leaders, but what about individuals forming their own opinions?
That's the strangest thing: Most people who tell us that are random commoners - and that's exactly the people where I'd expect some dissident opinion opposing the official stance which, understandably, for diplomatic reasons, seems to be "Necromancy is bad, so they deserved it - look, we're so much better now! Everything's fine, we're not resentful and we're morally flawless today!" I can fully see how the leaders would say that, especially when looking out for allies, but among the common people, I'd expect varying opinions, including more negative ones. There might be descendants whose ancestors lost power and wealth through the cultural and religious changes, or the violent displacement, let alone there must be people whose ancestors were killed during the Ra Gada invasion, so it would only be realistic that some of them aren't so positive about all this. And even without being personally involved, I think it's not an incomprehensible point of view to say that storming, plundering and razing random cities might generally not be justifiable no matter how moral or immoral the inhabitants were (especially since the Ra Gada didn't storm them to fight against necromancy or rescue anyone, but because they were plundering pirates - they would have done that regardless of the morality of the people living there). The way it is, with all npcs being completely fine with it... it just feels really strange.There's one place I can think of right off where npcs don't treat us with praise and welcoming, and it's a little conversation outside the crafting area in Sunport. Someone from the Stirk Fellowship is complaining about not being made welcome (maybe she should have been outside with us!) and an Argonian says, "Well, how would you feel if an army just showed up?"
Yeah, I'd like to see more of that, too. Right now it feels there's one critical person for every five who praise us just because we exist.Ah, see, that's the part I mentioned for my second playthrough, where I thought he wasn't wearing a mask, but I wasn't able to get a good enough view (jumping fail on my part yet again!). I did try to go back in through the door to reset it, but it didn't reset for me, so I wasn't able to try a better position.
So what does it mean that he's not wearing a mask there? Anything? Nothing? A simple oversight? Maybe they never expected anyone to investigate that closely? I do think it's interesting, but whether or not it actually matters is a different matter.
The strangest thing to me is how he seems to look slightly different every time - but they surely can't have randomized his looks? Who knows... Maybe it's indeed just bugged and it's just random Altmer guy (with a weirdly long chin on some pictures and an even stranger hairline on others) instead of actually Wormblood. What also caught my attention is that he's not carrying the Staff of Worms (he does in all other scenes), but some random staff of - whatever style that is.
It would be a strange oversight, considering you're supposed to look at him when entering that part of the map (there's even someone telling you "Look, there's Wormblood!"). So it's, in a way, a meaningful scene, so I'd expect a lot of care when it comes to the presentation. But who knows. In any way, I'm still curious what will actually be revealed to us. He surely must take off his mask at some point in Part 2. I have another theory, but more about that later.I agree that the lead up investigation to it all is a bit too scripted. If you deviate from the path they've set out, or explore more than where the arrows point, it's all for nothing. Just follow the marks on the set and say your lines like a good little hero. I get there's only so much they can do to make it seem organic, but the way we aren't given the slightest leeway in how we approach it can feel a bit dull.
Things somehow felt less scripted in earlier chapters. Also the overall writing of scenes - it often feels so clearly constructed now? Like those different "dramatic" battle scenes where you run past all of your comrades, and everyone clearly does something important and has something to say when you run by - I mean, it's nice they all get their little part, but that's not exactly what I'd expect in a chaotic battle situation.
If we're supposed to interact, I'd rather see that in situations that can be more organized and orderly. In the base game Fighters Guild questline there was a short scene where we had to arrange some crystals, and we did that together with our two npc comrades, everyone went on their position and then we did that thing together. That was clearly scripted, but it made sense for the situation and it was nice somehow. It also felt "meaningful" in emphasizing the comradeship that's supposed to be there between guild mates.What's funny to me about the Regent's dress is that it's not an original style--we've seen it before in Alinor. So whatever else the Corelanya Elves do, they seem to keep up with the current fashions on the mainland. I do think hers looks extra shiny, though; maybe it's the dye. Some dyes are more shimmering than others.
It's the dye. There are some that are shinier than others and are probably supposed to look like silk - but the sheen is too extreme and reminds me more of pvc or some other kind of plastic. A friend/acquaintance of mine, years ago, didn't really like using his guild's tabard - he always said it looked too much like a plastic garbage bag to him.
Apart from that, yes, it also caught my attention immediately upon arrival how much the Altmer of Solstice follow the current fashion of Alinor. There's really no difference. So much for "remote island not found on any common map".Those are some excellent screenshots, by the way! All up close and personal with Wormblood.
Then you'll love the next ones.
Part 3, The Telltale Loading Screen.Seriously, having this as the loading screen when entering the mine isn't... I mean...
https://images.uesp.net/6/65/ON-load-Tarnur_Mine.png
It does spoil the surprise a little, no? Sure, the depiction looks rather vague on this picture, but by the context ("There's this important thing that arrived there, what might it be?") it's too clear, still.
Did we ever find out why they're mining bismuth, by the way?
What I found interesting was that these daedra are present there, by the enemy type names:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Darkbinders
Especially the ambient dialogue about "Molag Bal favoring Wormblood". That still leads to questions. I'm wondering whether Wormblood might be a daedra then? That would also be an explanation for why he runs around masked all the time. And it would mean that the unmasked Wormblood we saw in Quest 2 was a bug. It would not explain though how he can immediately respawn, though. At some point of the main quest the prince mentions that this is an ability "only necromancers and fate-favored heroes" have... He can't know a thing, of course, but what if he's right with that "heroes" thing? What might that lead to? Or will we get a story about, indeed, Soul Shriven Mannimarco, who has, by what ever means, regained Molag Bals favor, and maybe was just sent back from Coldharbor to do whatever for him?
Part 4, Funny Games To Play.I was told to hurry. I decided not to.
Vanny still has his eyeball problem, by the way. At least his teeth look flawless.
And he told me that he had indeed been in Coldharbor before and had only arrived on Solstice through the reverse Planemeld? Sounds a little implausible considering that in the prologue, just after he had been captured, he had already told us that the location where he ended up looked "like Coldharbor, but not quite" which already sounded that this might have been, well, not Coldharbor, but coldharborized Solstice.
And after that, I went climbing.
Ah, right, what's this, by the way?
Yes, I know, it's supposed to be the spots where the Wall is thin at Li-Xal - but why would it look like this?
Part 5, Shooting Corpses Through Dimensions.Skordo's dialogue in front of the mausoleum was fixed. It's great the mistake has been corrected.
Apart from that - I made a new friend. I liked his offer to take us through the Wall, by the way, but stupid Gabrielle had different plans for us
I'm a bit shy.
Not sure what we're waiting for...
How do they even see anything?
Horrible clipping error.
Ah right...
There was this thing I wanted to get, but, alas, no matter from which side I tried to climb, there seemed to be an invisible wall
It's funny they didn't only teleport that thing but also another Alinor sarcophagus to dramatically prop it up.
Why's there a sun, by the way?
How did we leave Stirk at the end of the last prologue, by the way? Is that portal still open or is there any other way back? I'd like to check something.
Another thing I'm wondering about is whether we'll generally get more lore on souls somehow. We have that question what might have happened to Wormblood's soul. Then we have the whole topic of the soul reapers which are basically just reusable sets of soul gems that send souls to a targeted location instead of the normal procedure (soul ends up in soul gem, automatically gets transfered to the Soul Cairn after use - like we saw in Skyrim Dawnguard).
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
But why? He can't do anything for himself and the people he hires don't seem any too proficient either. Except for the one whose job it is to keep him alive; she's doing great.It's kind of why I wish they hadn't added gear to the antiquity system. I much prefer it as a lore-delivery system that also gives us some interesting things to display in our homes. Then maybe that way all the leads could be a little less irritating to find. I don't mind having to go about in the world to find leads, but I do think ZOS makes them artificially harder to obtain in order to stretch out the antiquity content. That's MMO life, though, I suppose. Gotta have those grinds...I guess.
I agree. I also see posts of group dungeon and trial people conplaining about having to grind for mythics despite having no interest in overland content or the antiquity system at all. I don't like that kind of design - pushing people into completely different activities that are not related to the reward and might not be fun/interesting for them. Same thing about putting basic housing structures (like a Dunmer arch or Dwemer windows) behind achievements for group dungeons. I have nothing against having furniture as achievements for dungeons, but why not some special artifact related to the dungeon, basically like a trophy to showcase? Basic structures, on the other hand, should be easily available for everyone who has an interest in housing, in my opinion.
It seems there's this general idea among game developers to "incentivize" players to try all aspects of the game, which is fine in and of itself, but when a person knows they don't like a specific activity, all that "incentivization" can come across kind of pushing. For myself, I've had my fill of large group activities like trials when I played WoW. I've done the scheduled playtime and mandatory character builds and stress of progression enough to know I don't want or need to ever do it again. So any antiquity leads found in trials are leads I will never get. Ok, that's my choice, but I do still think it's crummy of them to put furniture and decoration leads in trials. Keep the mythic leads there, sure; I don't care about mythic gear. (Of course, I do realize there are others who really want mythic gear and wouldn't want all those leads to be found in trials.) Well, ok, that was my little rant for the night!
Hmm, I'll have to check that out. I skipped the last event, too. I've done enough in the PvP zones of ESO to know it's really not for me. I don't care about being an easy target for other players (because I know I stand no chance against skilled PvPers) but I just don't find it interesting enough to engage in even when I don't get killed.I saw a screenshot recently in a post here on the forums, and the person must be using a real time add-on, because the Tamrielic day, month, and year appeared on the screenshot. I think the year was 629 (but I could be misremembering). I thought it was interesting because it showed that players have decided to track time their own way.
629? Then it was probably an add on using this thing:
https://esoclock.uesp.net/
It counts the day/night cycles since the game started.
Interesting! I did not know that existed. Of course, that's much more time passed than I would have considered, but if it's tracking the day/night cycles in game, it's interesting to know that's how long it's been.It is indeed very inconsistent. I remember being surprised when talking to NPCs who told me they spent time on the mainland and learned about our customs and whatnot. They acted like it was no big deal, the equivalent of a gap year between high school and college, and it made me think, "Then why was it supposedly so hard to find this island?"
To me it felt like they made up the whole "hard to find island" thing only to explain the time gap between the prologue and the release of Part 1 - and then possibly forgot about that lore bit while writing the rest...
While we're talking about inconsistencies: I had just noticed another funny thing with the new UI thing giving the distance of locations. It also shows a distance for the individual map marker. In this case I had marked some place on Solstice before, then travelled to the South of Auridon - and from there it showed 12 km to the marker on Solstice - that's about 7.5 miles.
That's a tiny ocean, then! Or is it a sea? Ah, that's funny, really. Well, the couple times I've been in game since they implemented that distance marker stuff on the compass, I haven't really paid attention to it. I wonder if all the distances are wacky like that.I agree, and that's why I wish they would show that kind of cultural exchange rather than the Rigurt type.
I mean, by itself, the idea of having some kind of official envoy visiting the new pact allies isn't such a bad story - including the representative behaving clumsily due to personal flaws or also cultural misunderstandings. But the whole thing got overused, from my point of view. And most of all, it's not the only way how cultural ideas are exchanged, of course, so I'd also like to see more variety there, if they want to include that topic (which would be realistic, considering how much travel there is right now on Tamriel).
Considering I got the very strong impression that King Jorunn sent Rigurt on these missions just to rid the court of his presence, that's not a strong case for that kind of formal cultural exchange. It's like Jorunn is making Rigurt everyone else's problem--thanks a lot! If Rigurt had been portrayed as socially clumsy, that would be one thing, but he's so very stupid and inept...oh, but I've grumbled about him before, so I'll leave it alone. I'd really prefer more subtle interactions when it comes to this kind of thing.
Quite so! I'm surprised any of you make it to decrepitude, but I know you do, because I've seen it!I really would prefer differing viewpoints expressed about the past of the Corelanya clan. I understand there would be the official stance by various heads of state or leaders, but what about individuals forming their own opinions?
That's the strangest thing: Most people who tell us that are random commoners - and that's exactly the people where I'd expect some dissident opinion opposing the official stance which, understandably, for diplomatic reasons, seems to be "Necromancy is bad, so they deserved it - look, we're so much better now! Everything's fine, we're not resentful and we're morally flawless today!" I can fully see how the leaders would say that, especially when looking out for allies, but among the common people, I'd expect varying opinions, including more negative ones. There might be descendants whose ancestors lost power and wealth through the cultural and religious changes, or the violent displacement, let alone there must be people whose ancestors were killed during the Ra Gada invasion, so it would only be realistic that some of them aren't so positive about all this. And even without being personally involved, I think it's not an incomprehensible point of view to say that storming, plundering and razing random cities might generally not be justifiable no matter how moral or immoral the inhabitants were (especially since the Ra Gada didn't storm them to fight against necromancy or rescue anyone, but because they were plundering pirates - they would have done that regardless of the morality of the people living there). The way it is, with all npcs being completely fine with it... it just feels really strange.
The whole "the Ra Gada were right all along!" theme really doesn't fit if you're from the Aldmeri Dominion and have fought off attacking and plundering Ra Gada in Velyn Harbor in Malabal Tor. But yes, this whole idea of everyone being just fine with how the history went down between the Ra Gada and clan Corelanya is odd, to say the least.I agree that the lead up investigation to it all is a bit too scripted. If you deviate from the path they've set out, or explore more than where the arrows point, it's all for nothing. Just follow the marks on the set and say your lines like a good little hero. I get there's only so much they can do to make it seem organic, but the way we aren't given the slightest leeway in how we approach it can feel a bit dull.
Things somehow felt less scripted in earlier chapters. Also the overall writing of scenes - it often feels so clearly constructed now? Like those different "dramatic" battle scenes where you run past all of your comrades, and everyone clearly does something important and has something to say when you run by - I mean, it's nice they all get their little part, but that's not exactly what I'd expect in a chaotic battle situation.
If we're supposed to interact, I'd rather see that in situations that can be more organized and orderly. In the base game Fighters Guild questline there was a short scene where we had to arrange some crystals, and we did that together with our two npc comrades, everyone went on their position and then we did that thing together. That was clearly scripted, but it made sense for the situation and it was nice somehow. It also felt "meaningful" in emphasizing the comradeship that's supposed to be there between guild mates.
I think it has been getting more scripted/guided over time. I wish it wasn't, though. People who don't pay attention to the dialogue and story are just going to follow the quest arrows anyway; people who do pay attention don't need that kind of guidance and hand-holding. I don't mean that scripted events can't ever be meaningful, but when I'm told to "investigate" and "look for clues" I'd like it to feel like I'm actually doing that and not being guided every step of the way.Those are some excellent screenshots, by the way! All up close and personal with Wormblood.
Then you'll love the next ones.
Part 3, The Telltale Loading Screen.Seriously, having this as the loading screen when entering the mine isn't... I mean...
https://images.uesp.net/6/65/ON-load-Tarnur_Mine.png
It does spoil the surprise a little, no? Sure, the depiction looks rather vague on this picture, but by the context ("There's this important thing that arrived there, what might it be?") it's too clear, still.
Did we ever find out why they're mining bismuth, by the way?
What I found interesting was that these daedra are present there, by the enemy type names:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Darkbinders
Especially the ambient dialogue about "Molag Bal favoring Wormblood". That still leads to questions. I'm wondering whether Wormblood might be a daedra then? That would also be an explanation for why he runs around masked all the time. And it would mean that the unmasked Wormblood we saw in Quest 2 was a bug. It would not explain though how he can immediately respawn, though. At some point of the main quest the prince mentions that this is an ability "only necromancers and fate-favored heroes" have... He can't know a thing, of course, but what if he's right with that "heroes" thing? What might that lead to? Or will we get a story about, indeed, Soul Shriven Mannimarco, who has, by what ever means, regained Molag Bals favor, and maybe was just sent back from Coldharbor to do whatever for him?
No, not much was ever mentioned about bismuth that I recall. Perhaps it comes into play in the next half. Maybe it has some kind of magic conductivity they need for their...rituals. Or opening Mor Naril. Or just sprucing up their Coldharbourized half of the island.
I don't think I heard that ambient dialogue when I went through. Of course, that could have been because not too many npcs were left alive to talk (I wasn't the only one in there both times I've done the quest). So...so perhaps Wormblood did a deal with Molag Bal? Like after everything went down with Mannimarco, Wormblood contacts him and says, "Look, I can make this cult thing work for you." Only...why would Molag Bal care? Or want that?
Your hypothesis is interesting, but I wonder what would make Wormblood a "fate-favored hero"? What does it mean to be "fate-favored" anyway? Could a Daedric Prince bestowing their "favor" on one count? Anyway, your idea has more background to it than "sudden nephew" and would explain why Molag Bal is paying the Worm Cult any attention at this time. I still just wonder if we'll ever find out anything more about Wormblood, whoever or whatever he turns out to be.Part 4, Funny Games To Play.I was told to hurry. I decided not to.
Vanny still has his eyeball problem, by the way. At least his teeth look flawless.
And he told me that he had indeed been in Coldharbor before and had only arrived on Solstice through the reverse Planemeld? Sounds a little implausible considering that in the prologue, just after he had been captured, he had already told us that the location where he ended up looked "like Coldharbor, but not quite" which already sounded that this might have been, well, not Coldharbor, but coldharborized Solstice.
Right, but we don't know how quickly they might have moved the Great Mage. If the initial floor portal sucked him into Coldharbour, they did have time to move him from there to Solstice by the time we saw him on Stirk. After he was captured, we still had a little meeting, then went to the Earth Forge to fight Mezzama, then had to get the alliances to agree to send representatives to Stirk...that would have been plenty of time to move him from Coldharbour to Eastern Solstice so he could give us his "like Coldharbour but not" line.
But, as for the screenshots: I like 'em! The second time I went through there, I did manage the jump up there, and mentioned that Raz was pinning Wormblood with a dagger. So, really, thanks to Raz's dagger skills, you had all that time to hang around and take tourist photos! See? The cat's good for something after all!And after that, I went climbing.
Ah, right, what's this, by the way?
Yes, I know, it's supposed to be the spots where the Wall is thin at Li-Xal - but why would it look like this?
Are those dolmen-like chains? Why would they be using those? They're not trying to pull the island into Coldharbour, right? They're bringing Coldharbour to the island by mysterious methods. So what's up with the chains? And why are they horizontal? What is even going on?Part 5, Shooting Corpses Through Dimensions.Skordo's dialogue in front of the mausoleum was fixed. It's great the mistake has been corrected.
Apart from that - I made a new friend. I liked his offer to take us through the Wall, by the way, but stupid Gabrielle had different plans for us
I'm a bit shy.
Not sure what we're waiting for...
How do they even see anything?
Horrible clipping error.
Ah right...
You see, this is why the Great Mage needs to maintain his new hairstyle! Also, we should have known it was an imposter from the hair alone.
You know, I did enjoy that conversation with Wormblood. Too bad it was the only one we got.There was this thing I wanted to get, but, alas, no matter from which side I tried to climb, there seemed to be an invisible wall
It's funny they didn't only teleport that thing but also another Alinor sarcophagus to dramatically prop it up.
Why's there a sun, by the way?
Lol! I like how you stayed behind. Everyone else says, "Ok, we're done here, let's go!" And you reply, "Yeah, meet you there in a minute. There's something I need to check on."
Is that a sun or just Meridia's weird light? Maybe it's Meridia herself.How did we leave Stirk at the end of the last prologue, by the way? Is that portal still open or is there any other way back? I'd like to check something.
It's always portals when it comes to Stirk. I honestly don't know if it's open or not. I think it might still be accessible, though, because I believe there will be tasks and such during the wall event that are on Stirk. Maybe? I seem to recall them saying something about people who don't have Solstice can still contribute to the effort on Stirk.
Do I want to know what you'd like to check on? The sarcophagus was never on that island, you know. You won't find it there.Another thing I'm wondering about is whether we'll generally get more lore on souls somehow. We have that question what might have happened to Wormblood's soul. Then we have the whole topic of the soul reapers which are basically just reusable sets of soul gems that send souls to a targeted location instead of the normal procedure (soul ends up in soul gem, automatically gets transfered to the Soul Cairn after use - like we saw in Skyrim Dawnguard).
I would like more lore on that, particularly the whole "two souls in one body" deal.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But why? He can't do anything for himself and the people he hires don't seem any too proficient either. Except for the one whose job it is to keep him alive; she's doing great.
But what if he hires anyone useful for once?It seems there's this general idea among game developers to "incentivize" players to try all aspects of the game, which is fine in and of itself, but when a person knows they don't like a specific activity, all that "incentivization" can come across kind of pushing. For myself, I've had my fill of large group activities like trials when I played WoW. I've done the scheduled playtime and mandatory character builds and stress of progression enough to know I don't want or need to ever do it again. So any antiquity leads found in trials are leads I will never get. Ok, that's my choice, but I do still think it's crummy of them to put furniture and decoration leads in trials. Keep the mythic leads there, sure; I don't care about mythic gear. (Of course, I do realize there are others who really want mythic gear and wouldn't want all those leads to be found in trials.) Well, ok, that was my little rant for the night!
It's totally understandable. My way of thinking is this: My free time is limited, and in that limited time I want to focus on things I enjoy (and I'm old enough to know what I enjoy and what not). I see that the grind is a part of the game genre, but I truly don't want to lots of things I dislike to get a thing I need to finally do what I enjoy. It still must feel reasonable to me in the end - and that includes not spending hours on things I don't care much for. Now, I personally can live with missing out on some items or furnishings, since if they're locked behind activities I can't stand, I will never get them, plain and simple. But I can see how frustrating it is for people who play some hard content and, in a way, need some specific mystic to succeed and then have to grind for days and weeks, just running around harvesting wood or killing beetles or whatever, until they got all leads for it. I also don't understand how "incentivizing them to try different content" helps in this situation, if it leads to nothing but frustration.Hmm, I'll have to check that out.
With the new feature, it's not just a Dwemer car, but also a Dwemer boatI skipped the last event, too. I've done enough in the PvP zones of ESO to know it's really not for me. I don't care about being an easy target for other players (because I know I stand no chance against skilled PvPers) but I just don't find it interesting enough to engage in even when I don't get killed.
I always skip all PvP events, and sometimes some of the dungeon events because they're rather time-consuming (or boring, if you just run through Fungal Grotto every day). At least you usually get so much event currency during the December event, it's usually enough to get everything I want.Interesting! I did not know that existed. Of course, that's much more time passed than I would have considered, but if it's tracking the day/night cycles in game, it's interesting to know that's how long it's been.
We can't really consider that the "actual" passing of time in ESO, since it's just too much - many characters would have already died of old age in the meantime, probably. I still hope for an official timeline for the chapter events we saw in the last 11 years.That's a tiny ocean, then! Or is it a sea? Ah, that's funny, really. Well, the couple times I've been in game since they implemented that distance marker stuff on the compass, I haven't really paid attention to it. I wonder if all the distances are wacky like that.
Honestly? They're horrible. If you stand right in front of a wayshrine, or maybe what would be 2 meters / 6.5 ft in real life, it still shows "12 meters" distance. If we go by that, the average person in Tamriel must be about 6 meters / 20 ft tall. Which makes it even funnier then if the distance between Auridon and Solstice is just 12 km / 7.5 miles.
I took a few more measurements:
Auridon, Northernmost point to Vulkhel Guard: 3,3 km / 2 miles
Stonefalls East - West: 2,7 km / 1.7 miles
Which explains how you can easily ride that distance in 5 minutes...
Telvanni Peninsula: 1,7 km / 1 mile
...and exactly the same for Galen; Now, that tiny island seems to have the same size as that huge landmass!
Western Solstice: 3,2 km = 2 miles
Only that half of the island is almost double the size of Telvanni Peninsula.
Tamriel as a whole:
North - South: 15 km / 9.3 miles
East - West (from Necrom to Daggerfall): 22 km / 13.7 miles
...but still, there are different climate zones.
We already knew that there's something off since the zones are roughly the same size even if there are huge size differences on the world map, but having distances on the compass makes it even much more jarring.
On top of that, I'd rather have seen some unique Tamrielic measuring units instead of meters, especially since it's so clear that the meters in game are nothing like real life meters.I think it has been getting more scripted/guided over time. I wish it wasn't, though. People who don't pay attention to the dialogue and story are just going to follow the quest arrows anyway; people who do pay attention don't need that kind of guidance and hand-holding. I don't mean that scripted events can't ever be meaningful, but when I'm told to "investigate" and "look for clues" I'd like it to feel like I'm actually doing that and not being guided every step of the way.
It's strange that you've got objects in the wilderness that drop antiquity leads that just have some slightly golden sheen or particle effect and are easily missed, but in actual quests where the main task is to search for something, in a single room even, so in a limited space, they mark the items you're supposed to "search" for with huge quest markers.No, not much was ever mentioned about bismuth that I recall. Perhaps it comes into play in the next half. Maybe it has some kind of magic conductivity they need for their...rituals. Or opening Mor Naril. Or just sprucing up their Coldharbourized half of the island.
I mean, there's certainly a connection between Solstice being the only place where we saw bismuth so far and the Worm Cult choosing this location for their ritual shenanigans. Maybe the intake of 3 to 5 pieces of bismuth a day enhances an individual's necromantic abilities.
It's interesting that we learned on Galen that... what was is there? Ammonites, I think? Anyway, it caught my attention that it's always supposed to be minerals and fossils that naturally contain some special stored magical energy.I don't think I heard that ambient dialogue when I went through. Of course, that could have been because not too many npcs were left alive to talk (I wasn't the only one in there both times I've done the quest). So...so perhaps Wormblood did a deal with Molag Bal? Like after everything went down with Mannimarco, Wormblood contacts him and says, "Look, I can make this cult thing work for you." Only...why would Molag Bal care? Or want that?
Your hypothesis is interesting, but I wonder what would make Wormblood a "fate-favored hero"? What does it mean to be "fate-favored" anyway? Could a Daedric Prince bestowing their "favor" on one count? Anyway, your idea has more background to it than "sudden nephew" and would explain why Molag Bal is paying the Worm Cult any attention at this time. I still just wonder if we'll ever find out anything more about Wormblood, whoever or whatever he turns out to be.
I often wonder how much ambient dialogue I might miss - but luckily, we have UESP
But why exactly would Wormblood make a deal with Molag Bal and then bring back Mannimarco? What does he get from that? And why would Molag Bal even care about all this nonsense? The Worm Cult already failed once and Mannimarco's betrayal certainly didn't strengthen the trust. Molag Bal also isn't exactly known to be forgiving, so normally, I'd assume his patience with the Worm Cult should be over.
The thing I find most remarkable about the current situation is that we now seem to have daedra amongst the Worm Cultists. But I still don't get why daedra should be invested in a cult of mortals. Well, even if Wormblood was a daedra, why would they all invest so much in a Tamrielic cult? Plus the "bringing back Mannimarco" thing - why would random daedra care for him? I really hope we'll see some plausible explanation for that.Right, but we don't know how quickly they might have moved the Great Mage. If the initial floor portal sucked him into Coldharbour, they did have time to move him from there to Solstice by the time we saw him on Stirk. After he was captured, we still had a little meeting, then went to the Earth Forge to fight Mezzama, then had to get the alliances to agree to send representatives to Stirk...that would have been plenty of time to move him from Coldharbour to Eastern Solstice so he could give us his "like Coldharbour but not" line.
They could have moved him to all kinds of different locations: from Coldharbor to Summerset, from Summerset to Blackmarch, from Blackmarch to the Ascendant Lord's dining room,... The biggest question to me is: Why would they? Especially since we're told that the Worm Cult had probably been on Solstice for a longer time already.But, as for the screenshots: I like 'em! The second time I went through there, I did manage the jump up there, and mentioned that Raz was pinning Wormblood with a dagger. So, really, thanks to Raz's dagger skills, you had all that time to hang around and take tourist photos! See? The cat's good for something after all!
It's not really plausible how that would stop Wormblood, though. He could just let Razum-dar stab him and then resurrect in his usual floating manner above or next to him? Realistically, we probably would have seen Wormblood running or floating through the room and Razum-dar trying to catch him. Since that would look rather silly, they showed us something elseAre those dolmen-like chains? Why would they be using those? They're not trying to pull the island into Coldharbour, right? They're bringing Coldharbour to the island by mysterious methods. So what's up with the chains? And why are they horizontal? What is even going on?
Yes, those are dolmen chains. I can't make sense of why they would randomly show up in some mountain cavern in that manner either.You see, this is why the Great Mage needs to maintain his new hairstyle! Also, we should have known it was an imposter from the hair alone.
Nah, in his "true"(?) projections he also has longer hair again. I agree though that it's a horrible match for that robe.
It's funny, by the way, how his wrists really seemed to be tied with some piece of rope - which is not causing any visible clipping errors with his hands or sleeves.
Not that you'd normally see it anyway, since you're supposed to stand next to that bell and wait for a signal or something.You know, I did enjoy that conversation with Wormblood. Too bad it was the only one we got.
How big are the chances that we'll meet Wormblood's disembodied soul in Part 2, he turns out to be "a good guy" (because remorse) and helps us stop Mannimarco? Well, I hope not, since I'd rather see a more nuanced portrayal of Mannimarco as something more than just "the evil baddie", but still...Lol! I like how you stayed behind. Everyone else says, "Ok, we're done here, let's go!" And you reply, "Yeah, meet you there in a minute. There's something I need to check on."
It was very important! If anyone had thought about Mannimarco's corpse the first time we defeated him, we wouldn't have ended up with this necromantic mess on Solstice now. Well, as we see, everyone else - except for me - forgot about the risk once more... At least I can't be blamed if they try to raise Mannimarco's body for the second, third, forth or fifth time! I told you we need to collect it! But no one listened.Is that a sun or just Meridia's weird light? Maybe it's Meridia herself.
Meridia hurts my eyes and gets on my nerves every morning thenIt's always portals when it comes to Stirk. I honestly don't know if it's open or not. I think it might still be accessible, though, because I believe there will be tasks and such during the wall event that are on Stirk. Maybe? I seem to recall them saying something about people who don't have Solstice can still contribute to the effort on Stirk.
Do I want to know what you'd like to check on? The sarcophagus was never on that island, you know. You won't find it there.
Maybe, maybe not
Also: Who knows where the sarcophagus will appear next! Maybe it's a mythical artifact now that randomly appears at different locations.
No, seriously: It's related to the Wall event. I've been wondering whether those quests are also already there - released earlier by mistake, just like the camp on Solstice. Since there's another strange thing about the Solstice camp I noticed: It looked differently yesterday and today. Made me wonder whether there are already active quests somewhere that can be completed, so the whole thing might already be progressing. That would be funny; the Wall falling before the event even started And then we could explore the other side of the island that might not even be finished yet I would like more lore on that, particularly the whole "two souls in one body" deal.
I really hope we'll see more about that, since there are already some cases in lore where several souls are stuck in a single body, and even one case of a merged soul. Well, I already mentioned this lich:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Erandur-Vangaril
Not sure though whether this will actually be the situation we get presented when it comes to Wormblood/Mannimarco, or whether they'd just tell us Wormblood was "gone", or maybe his soul is floating around somewhere, expulsed from his body. We'll see. One week left until PTS, maybe 6 until official release.
Edited by Syldras on 7 September 2025 06:04@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems there's this general idea among game developers to "incentivize" players to try all aspects of the game, which is fine in and of itself, but when a person knows they don't like a specific activity, all that "incentivization" can come across kind of pushing. For myself, I've had my fill of large group activities like trials when I played WoW. I've done the scheduled playtime and mandatory character builds and stress of progression enough to know I don't want or need to ever do it again. So any antiquity leads found in trials are leads I will never get. Ok, that's my choice, but I do still think it's crummy of them to put furniture and decoration leads in trials. Keep the mythic leads there, sure; I don't care about mythic gear. (Of course, I do realize there are others who really want mythic gear and wouldn't want all those leads to be found in trials.) Well, ok, that was my little rant for the night!
Leads are found in both normal and vet. Normal trials don't require a build. In fact, some guilds do them naked (no gear, only your weapon) for fun. You can join a pick-up group and knock them out in like 30 minutes with absolutely no meta builds required. Normal crag trials really aren't harder than most of the base dungeons. The dlc ones are a harder but none require the type of progression gaming you're describing at all.
They put these incentives in so people actually try content because a lot of times people have preconceived notions that aren't true about content they'd enjoy if they gave it a chance. Some people won't like it and will be annoyed by it and won't do it again. But others will have a great time and become a new player for that content.
Edited by spartaxoxo on 7 September 2025 06:510 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »It seems there's this general idea among game developers to "incentivize" players to try all aspects of the game, which is fine in and of itself, but when a person knows they don't like a specific activity, all that "incentivization" can come across kind of pushing. For myself, I've had my fill of large group activities like trials when I played WoW. I've done the scheduled playtime and mandatory character builds and stress of progression enough to know I don't want or need to ever do it again. So any antiquity leads found in trials are leads I will never get. Ok, that's my choice, but I do still think it's crummy of them to put furniture and decoration leads in trials. Keep the mythic leads there, sure; I don't care about mythic gear. (Of course, I do realize there are others who really want mythic gear and wouldn't want all those leads to be found in trials.) Well, ok, that was my little rant for the night!
Leads are found in both normal and vet. Normal trials don't require a build. In fact, some guilds do them naked (no gear, only your weapon) for fun. You can join a pick-up group and knock them out in like 30 minutes with absolutely no meta builds required. Normal crag trials really aren't harder than most of the base dungeons. The dlc ones are a harder but none require the type of progression gaming you're describing at all.
They put these incentives in so people actually try content because a lot of times people have preconceived notions that aren't true about content they'd enjoy if they gave it a chance. Some people won't like it and will be annoyed by it and won't do it again. But others will have a great time and become a new player for that content.
Well, that's good to know. If I ever feel particularly brave one day, it's possible I could try it out. Unless the lead has a 100% drop rate, however, I'd still have to rate it not worth my time. Large group activity just isn't for me.
I do understand why developers put these incentives in, and generally I'm fine with rewards being out of my reach because of my choice to not participate in the content. Only sometime I get a little cranky, is all.
I mean, I suppose there's the outside chance that could happen. But have you seen what passes for "assistants" in Tamriel? Buffoons and bumblers, everywhere you look!It seems there's this general idea among game developers to "incentivize" players to try all aspects of the game, which is fine in and of itself, but when a person knows they don't like a specific activity, all that "incentivization" can come across kind of pushing. For myself, I've had my fill of large group activities like trials when I played WoW. I've done the scheduled playtime and mandatory character builds and stress of progression enough to know I don't want or need to ever do it again. So any antiquity leads found in trials are leads I will never get. Ok, that's my choice, but I do still think it's crummy of them to put furniture and decoration leads in trials. Keep the mythic leads there, sure; I don't care about mythic gear. (Of course, I do realize there are others who really want mythic gear and wouldn't want all those leads to be found in trials.) Well, ok, that was my little rant for the night!
It's totally understandable. My way of thinking is this: My free time is limited, and in that limited time I want to focus on things I enjoy (and I'm old enough to know what I enjoy and what not). I see that the grind is a part of the game genre, but I truly don't want to lots of things I dislike to get a thing I need to finally do what I enjoy. It still must feel reasonable to me in the end - and that includes not spending hours on things I don't care much for. Now, I personally can live with missing out on some items or furnishings, since if they're locked behind activities I can't stand, I will never get them, plain and simple. But I can see how frustrating it is for people who play some hard content and, in a way, need some specific mystic to succeed and then have to grind for days and weeks, just running around harvesting wood or killing beetles or whatever, until they got all leads for it. I also don't understand how "incentivizing them to try different content" helps in this situation, if it leads to nothing but frustration.
There's definitely a balance to be struck between "incentivize" and "frustrate", and from my experience MMOs generally don't achieve that balance.
I keep forgetting mounts can swim. Well! I could use a boat!I skipped the last event, too. I've done enough in the PvP zones of ESO to know it's really not for me. I don't care about being an easy target for other players (because I know I stand no chance against skilled PvPers) but I just don't find it interesting enough to engage in even when I don't get killed.
I always skip all PvP events, and sometimes some of the dungeon events because they're rather time-consuming (or boring, if you just run through Fungal Grotto every day). At least you usually get so much event currency during the December event, it's usually enough to get everything I want.
That's what I thought, too, until one December when I came up short on event tickets, and so used crowns to buy the last few I needed. Live and learn. I'll play it safe this time around and do some Undaunted work.Interesting! I did not know that existed. Of course, that's much more time passed than I would have considered, but if it's tracking the day/night cycles in game, it's interesting to know that's how long it's been.
We can't really consider that the "actual" passing of time in ESO, since it's just too much - many characters would have already died of old age in the meantime, probably. I still hope for an official timeline for the chapter events we saw in the last 11 years.
I'm with you on that: I love a good timeline.That's a tiny ocean, then! Or is it a sea? Ah, that's funny, really. Well, the couple times I've been in game since they implemented that distance marker stuff on the compass, I haven't really paid attention to it. I wonder if all the distances are wacky like that.
Honestly? They're horrible. If you stand right in front of a wayshrine, or maybe what would be 2 meters / 6.5 ft in real life, it still shows "12 meters" distance. If we go by that, the average person in Tamriel must be about 6 meters / 20 ft tall. Which makes it even funnier then if the distance between Auridon and Solstice is just 12 km / 7.5 miles.
I took a few more measurements:
Auridon, Northernmost point to Vulkhel Guard: 3,3 km / 2 miles
Stonefalls East - West: 2,7 km / 1.7 miles
Which explains how you can easily ride that distance in 5 minutes...
Telvanni Peninsula: 1,7 km / 1 mile
...and exactly the same for Galen; Now, that tiny island seems to have the same size as that huge landmass!
Western Solstice: 3,2 km = 2 miles
Only that half of the island is almost double the size of Telvanni Peninsula.
Tamriel as a whole:
North - South: 15 km / 9.3 miles
East - West (from Necrom to Daggerfall): 22 km / 13.7 miles
...but still, there are different climate zones.
We already knew that there's something off since the zones are roughly the same size even if there are huge size differences on the world map, but having distances on the compass makes it even much more jarring.
On top of that, I'd rather have seen some unique Tamrielic measuring units instead of meters, especially since it's so clear that the meters in game are nothing like real life meters.
I have a pretty hard time gauging distance in games, and when there's no standard reference point to tether the measurement to, it's even harder. About the only use I get out of such distance markers in games is that a bigger number generally means further away. In the three-dimensional world, I do not have this problem: I'm pretty good with measurements.No, not much was ever mentioned about bismuth that I recall. Perhaps it comes into play in the next half. Maybe it has some kind of magic conductivity they need for their...rituals. Or opening Mor Naril. Or just sprucing up their Coldharbourized half of the island.
I mean, there's certainly a connection between Solstice being the only place where we saw bismuth so far and the Worm Cult choosing this location for their ritual shenanigans. Maybe the intake of 3 to 5 pieces of bismuth a day enhances an individual's necromantic abilities.
It's interesting that we learned on Galen that... what was is there? Ammonites, I think? Anyway, it caught my attention that it's always supposed to be minerals and fossils that naturally contain some special stored magical energy.
Perhaps there's a latent magical energy in Nirn itself that seeps into natural objects over time, so the longer something has been in contact with Nirn, the more magical energy it gets.I don't think I heard that ambient dialogue when I went through. Of course, that could have been because not too many npcs were left alive to talk (I wasn't the only one in there both times I've done the quest). So...so perhaps Wormblood did a deal with Molag Bal? Like after everything went down with Mannimarco, Wormblood contacts him and says, "Look, I can make this cult thing work for you." Only...why would Molag Bal care? Or want that?
Your hypothesis is interesting, but I wonder what would make Wormblood a "fate-favored hero"? What does it mean to be "fate-favored" anyway? Could a Daedric Prince bestowing their "favor" on one count? Anyway, your idea has more background to it than "sudden nephew" and would explain why Molag Bal is paying the Worm Cult any attention at this time. I still just wonder if we'll ever find out anything more about Wormblood, whoever or whatever he turns out to be.
I often wonder how much ambient dialogue I might miss - but luckily, we have UESP
But why exactly would Wormblood make a deal with Molag Bal and then bring back Mannimarco? What does he get from that? And why would Molag Bal even care about all this nonsense? The Worm Cult already failed once and Mannimarco's betrayal certainly didn't strengthen the trust. Molag Bal also isn't exactly known to be forgiving, so normally, I'd assume his patience with the Worm Cult should be over.
The thing I find most remarkable about the current situation is that we now seem to have daedra amongst the Worm Cultists. But I still don't get why daedra should be invested in a cult of mortals. Well, even if Wormblood was a daedra, why would they all invest so much in a Tamrielic cult? Plus the "bringing back Mannimarco" thing - why would random daedra care for him? I really hope we'll see some plausible explanation for that.
At this point, I'm not sure I know why anyone is doing anything (other than the Stirk Fellowship). I'm fine with hidden motivations, or obscure ones, or even slightly nutty ones, but to have no hint at all? Well, ok, "because evil" I suppose is the motivation for the Worm Cult, so there's that. But the daedra? Molag Bal? What are any of them getting out of this? I guess Meridia's motivation is: whatever Molag Bal does, she wants to thwart. Of course, she's not really involved herself; we just used her realm for our shenanigans and then pulled her knight back from wherever he was.Right, but we don't know how quickly they might have moved the Great Mage. If the initial floor portal sucked him into Coldharbour, they did have time to move him from there to Solstice by the time we saw him on Stirk. After he was captured, we still had a little meeting, then went to the Earth Forge to fight Mezzama, then had to get the alliances to agree to send representatives to Stirk...that would have been plenty of time to move him from Coldharbour to Eastern Solstice so he could give us his "like Coldharbour but not" line.
They could have moved him to all kinds of different locations: from Coldharbor to Summerset, from Summerset to Blackmarch, from Blackmarch to the Ascendant Lord's dining room,... The biggest question to me is: Why would they? Especially since we're told that the Worm Cult had probably been on Solstice for a longer time already.
To me it went down like this: Mezzama opened a portal to Coldharbour because she/it couldn't open one to Solstice (remember, portals are supposed to be tricky there). Ok, so Great Mage kidnapped and in Coldharbour, but that isn't where they really want him; they want him on Solstice, so at the first convenient moment, they move him there, when they have the time and peace (no pesky heroes distracting them) to accomplish such a difficult portal maneuver. So if Mezzama had been better at portals, they could have sent him directly to Solstice. As to why he needs to be on Solstice: that's where all the action is! They have Big Plans! The Great Mage has Big Magic! They probably want to siphon his Big Magic for their Big Plans.But, as for the screenshots: I like 'em! The second time I went through there, I did manage the jump up there, and mentioned that Raz was pinning Wormblood with a dagger. So, really, thanks to Raz's dagger skills, you had all that time to hang around and take tourist photos! See? The cat's good for something after all!
It's not really plausible how that would stop Wormblood, though. He could just let Razum-dar stab him and then resurrect in his usual floating manner above or next to him? Realistically, we probably would have seen Wormblood running or floating through the room and Razum-dar trying to catch him. Since that would look rather silly, they showed us something else
I dunno, I would think a dagger in the shoulder pinning one to the ground would be a pretty effective deterrent. Raz didn't kill him, so no resurrecting. The pain was probably making him unable to think clearly. It also was all supposed to take place fairly quickly. We weren't meant to linger and sip wine while watching them. The building was falling down!Are those dolmen-like chains? Why would they be using those? They're not trying to pull the island into Coldharbour, right? They're bringing Coldharbour to the island by mysterious methods. So what's up with the chains? And why are they horizontal? What is even going on?
Yes, those are dolmen chains. I can't make sense of why they would randomly show up in some mountain cavern in that manner either.
Another Solstice mystery!You know, I did enjoy that conversation with Wormblood. Too bad it was the only one we got.
How big are the chances that we'll meet Wormblood's disembodied soul in Part 2, he turns out to be "a good guy" (because remorse) and helps us stop Mannimarco? Well, I hope not, since I'd rather see a more nuanced portrayal of Mannimarco as something more than just "the evil baddie", but still...
I really don't know. When I first saw how it all went down, with Mannimarco taking over Wormblood's body and Wormblood protesting, I thought: well, now there's an evicted soul somewhere we might interact with at some point. Then in the end scene in the Regent's palace, Raz says pretty confidently that Wormblood is gone for good. Now, I don't think Raz is any kind of expert on the nuances of souls, so I can take that as him just expressing what he thinks probably happened, and the possibility is still out there we might come across Wormblood's soul. What I'm not sure of is the writer's intent. Was Raz saying that their way of telling us: Wormblood's done and gone? Or are they laying the groundwork for a surprise/twist, where they lead us to believe Wormblood's gone but that's not actually the case? Basically: was Raz's comment simple exposition or careful plotting?
If we do come across whatever remains of Wormblood, I would rather he doesn't have remorse for what he did, but anger at what Mannimarco did, and he wants revenge, and so helps us to further his goal. Then we could decide whether or not his help is worth it, because it might lead to him being back in the world, and would that really be a good outcome?Lol! I like how you stayed behind. Everyone else says, "Ok, we're done here, let's go!" And you reply, "Yeah, meet you there in a minute. There's something I need to check on."
It was very important! If anyone had thought about Mannimarco's corpse the first time we defeated him, we wouldn't have ended up with this necromantic mess on Solstice now. Well, as we see, everyone else - except for me - forgot about the risk once more... At least I can't be blamed if they try to raise Mannimarco's body for the second, third, forth or fifth time! I told you we need to collect it! But no one listened.
You're right. But it's the way of the continuing saga to leave critical items/people/etc. out of all our heroic calculations.
Sounds like Meridia's playbook to me!It's always portals when it comes to Stirk. I honestly don't know if it's open or not. I think it might still be accessible, though, because I believe there will be tasks and such during the wall event that are on Stirk. Maybe? I seem to recall them saying something about people who don't have Solstice can still contribute to the effort on Stirk.
Do I want to know what you'd like to check on? The sarcophagus was never on that island, you know. You won't find it there.
Maybe, maybe not
Also: Who knows where the sarcophagus will appear next! Maybe it's a mythical artifact now that randomly appears at different locations.
No, seriously: It's related to the Wall event. I've been wondering whether those quests are also already there - released earlier by mistake, just like the camp on Solstice. Since there's another strange thing about the Solstice camp I noticed: It looked differently yesterday and today. Made me wonder whether there are already active quests somewhere that can be completed, so the whole thing might already be progressing. That would be funny; the Wall falling before the event even started And then we could explore the other side of the island that might not even be finished yet
Hah, well, good luck on your search! I'd think if anything like that happened, they'd just reset the event. (Assuming they can do that). From where did we take the portal to Stirk? Was it the Wayrest Mages Guild? Maybe check there to see if they left it open. They leave the one to Eyevea open all the time, so it's possible!I would like more lore on that, particularly the whole "two souls in one body" deal.
I really hope we'll see more about that, since there are already some cases in lore where several souls are stuck in a single body, and even one case of a merged soul. Well, I already mentioned this lich:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Erandur-Vangaril
Not sure though whether this will actually be the situation we get presented when it comes to Wormblood/Mannimarco, or whether they'd just tell us Wormblood was "gone", or maybe his soul is floating around somewhere, expulsed from his body. We'll see. One week left until PTS, maybe 6 until official release.
I won't be finding out anything from PTS, so my wait is longer. No idea how long the Wall event will last, either. But that's ok, I have patience. For some things. 0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, I suppose there's the outside chance that could happen. But have you seen what passes for "assistants" in Tamriel? Buffoons and bumblers, everywhere you look!
A good assistant is a precious thing. One that doesn't run away if things get dangerous, most of all. With all those world-ending threats, Tamriel is unreliable enough. No need for an "assistant" who suddenly bolts half-way on your pilgrimage to Red MountainThere's definitely a balance to be struck between "incentivize" and "frustrate", and from my experience MMOs generally don't achieve that balance.
Sometimes it makes me wonder whether I'm just not the intended target group for this genre and the average player enjoys it the way it is, or whether actually most people are frustrated, but it's still like that, for unknown reasons (maybe because people still accept it, even if frustrated, and that's the main thing most companies who maintain these games usually are interested in, I guess). Well, I really don't know. I'm not an MMO person and the only reason I'm playing ESO is that it's a TES game and I enjoy the lore.I keep forgetting mounts can swim. Well! I could use a boat!
I also still tend to forget it during normal gameplay (so most of the time, when I'm not planning to do a boating trip somewhere for screenshots). It's actually so easy now to avoid enemies in many places if you just want to pass through - just ride through the river instead of using the roads, and that's it.That's what I thought, too, until one December when I came up short on event tickets, and so used crowns to buy the last few I needed. Live and learn. I'll play it safe this time around and do some Undaunted work.
Last year, I had the "problem" of having so many spare tickets I wasn't even sure what to do with them (It's not a real problem, of course - I could have just not done the event quests, but it were events where it's very fastly done, so not doing it would somehow be unreasonable, right? ). It's nice they also offer a few things at the Impresaria now for this occasion, although at some point, you've got enough of these guild things for companions, and repair kits aren't really interesting for me anyway, since I usually already have so many of them. I'd hope they could include more basic furniture for spare tickets. Nothing fancy, so people wouldn't complain they miss it because they don't have enough tickets - just something small and useful, at best somehow related to the event, could even be something that's craftable, I wouldn't mind that. I know there are already some furnishings available for sale for some events (like all those cakes during the anniversary), but not for all of them yet. Well, or they could increase the limit of tickets we can hold (12 is rather low), but I somehow don't see that happen.I have a pretty hard time gauging distance in games, and when there's no standard reference point to tether the measurement to, it's even harder. About the only use I get out of such distance markers in games is that a bigger number generally means further away. In the three-dimensional world, I do not have this problem: I'm pretty good with measurements.
I don't really need those numbers at all, but since they're there now (and there's no way, except for mods, to deactivate them yet), it is rather jarring to me that the numbers given don't make any sense at all. I wouldn't mind if it would be more or less realistic (I played some strategical military shooter game decades ago with a huge map you needed to navigate and distances between settlements given in kilometers; I think it was an island, anyway, one big zone, I think the size was about 150 square kilometers in total - in a realistic scale), but the problem is that I know what a meter is, and if it tells me the thing right in front of me is 12 meters away instead of the 2 it should realistically be - it's just jarring.
Same for Tamriel's size: A whole continent with different climate zones having the size of 15 x 22 kilometers? Where I live, 20 km is about the usual distance between two bigger towns, with maybe some small settlements with a few houses each inbetween. That would be realistic for Stonefalls, maybe, with Davon's Watch on the one end and Kragenmoor on the other, and a few places like Senie and Othrenis inbetween, but not for the whole continent.Perhaps there's a latent magical energy in Nirn itself that seeps into natural objects over time, so the longer something has been in contact with Nirn, the more magical energy it gets.
They didn't really give us any background lore to the ammonites, did they? Just that they contain energy, and that's it.At this point, I'm not sure I know why anyone is doing anything (other than the Stirk Fellowship). I'm fine with hidden motivations, or obscure ones, or even slightly nutty ones, but to have no hint at all? Well, ok, "because evil" I suppose is the motivation for the Worm Cult, so there's that. But the daedra? Molag Bal? What are any of them getting out of this? I guess Meridia's motivation is: whatever Molag Bal does, she wants to thwart. Of course, she's not really involved herself; we just used her realm for our shenanigans and then pulled her knight back from wherever he was.
I want to be honest: If there's no reasonable explanation for all this until the end of Part 2, I'll be disappointed. Which would again show what this "they're evil people doing evil things just because" thing doesn't work for me. I won't really be invested and immersed in a story if people seem to be doing things completely randomly or "because the writer made said so", but there's no plausible motivations we learn of. Right now, there are just a lot of open questions, and if the intention is to make us wonder, well, that might have worked - but that calls for a big resolution at the end of the story, otherwise it's just... weird.To me it went down like this: Mezzama opened a portal to Coldharbour because she/it couldn't open one to Solstice (remember, portals are supposed to be tricky there). Ok, so Great Mage kidnapped and in Coldharbour, but that isn't where they really want him; they want him on Solstice, so at the first convenient moment, they move him there, when they have the time and peace (no pesky heroes distracting them) to accomplish such a difficult portal maneuver. So if Mezzama had been better at portals, they could have sent him directly to Solstice. As to why he needs to be on Solstice: that's where all the action is! They have Big Plans! The Great Mage has Big Magic! They probably want to siphon his Big Magic for their Big Plans.
I honestly expect something like that. Some kind of "sacrifice" situation (even if it's not entirely plausible considering that Mannimarco certainly wouldn't want to kill Vanny) - if there was a volcano on the island, he'd probably end up as the damsel in distress about to be thrown into the crater Luckily, there isn't, but unfortunately, there's Mor Naril. Anyway, I somehow expect them trying to harvest his power somehow, for... whatever it is. Transfering it to Mannimarco, maybe. Probably not a story taking into consideration their shared past. Sigh.I dunno, I would think a dagger in the shoulder pinning one to the ground would be a pretty effective deterrent. Raz didn't kill him, so no resurrecting. The pain was probably making him unable to think clearly. It also was all supposed to take place fairly quickly. We weren't meant to linger and sip wine while watching them. The building was falling down!
It's not his shoulder, it's directly aimed at his heart. He could have impaled himself on it to insta-rez and flee. I mean, not that he fled anyway, later.Another Solstice mystery!
The biggest Solstice mystery for me is why they transported the sarcophagus from the East of Solstice to the West (that's stated in dialogue - it has arrived from the Eastern side) only for us to discover it there, while for the resurrection ritual just keeping it on the East - where all those special necromantic locations are - would have made much more sense.
I mean, yes, I know, the ritual seemed to have been planned with the Mine as the location at some point (at least we see that in that one trailer), but the way it's right now doesn't really make sense.I really don't know. When I first saw how it all went down, with Mannimarco taking over Wormblood's body and Wormblood protesting, I thought: well, now there's an evicted soul somewhere we might interact with at some point. Then in the end scene in the Regent's palace, Raz says pretty confidently that Wormblood is gone for good. Now, I don't think Raz is any kind of expert on the nuances of souls, so I can take that as him just expressing what he thinks probably happened, and the possibility is still out there we might come across Wormblood's soul. What I'm not sure of is the writer's intent. Was Raz saying that their way of telling us: Wormblood's done and gone? Or are they laying the groundwork for a surprise/twist, where they lead us to believe Wormblood's gone but that's not actually the case? Basically: was Raz's comment simple exposition or careful plotting?
By what we've seen in TES lore before I'd expect both souls to be present in Wormblood's body, seperate or merged. It would be strange if one of them was just "gone". Where would it even go to? Why would it be able to float around formlessly somewhere? But honestly, we don't even know how and why Mannimarco's soul could just return now, since we've been told before that the Gift of Death was necessary for that, and they didn't get that thing. It still returned, anyway. In that moment - not later, and not a week earlier either. Without knowing what kind of ritual that was (yes, yes, I know, "some sinister necromantic ritual"), anything is possible. Maybe they'll say it was a soul swapping ritual and Wormblood's soul ended up where Mannimarco's was? Maybe Coldharbor? And now it gets transported to Solstice again by the reverse Planemeld? Well, that would be... not well-planned from Mannimarco's side, I guess.
I also wonder whether Wormblood's end (so far) was supposed to be a bit of a moral story. Like: Look what happens if you do evil necromantic things! - Then we surely won't ever hear of Wormblood again.If we do come across whatever remains of Wormblood, I would rather he doesn't have remorse for what he did, but anger at what Mannimarco did, and he wants revenge, and so helps us to further his goal. Then we could decide whether or not his help is worth it, because it might lead to him being back in the world, and would that really be a good outcome?
Anger? I don't know. In a way he did impose this on himself. So in a way what happened was justified. He didn't seem much like an emotional person either.
While I'd like to be able to talk to him again - and most of all get at least a bit of background lore on who his is - I'd still hope for a more interesting characterization of Mannimarco. It's really hard to say what will happen, since the whole situation with Molag Bal and the cult is rather unclear.
With all the info we have right now, things just don't add up. The Worm Cult worships Molag Bal and there are suddenly even daedra among them. But still, their new leader wants to resurrect Mannimarco, who is seen as a traitor and imprisoned by Molag Bal. How can that be explained: A worshipper of a deity openly trying to free a prisoner of said deity?
And now Mannimarco's back and leads the Worm Cult that worships Molag Bal once more...? Even if Mannimarco promised Molag Bal whatever now to regain his favor - who would believe that? Everyone knows he has his apotheosis plans and will certainly not be okay with just being a cult leader and Molag Bal worshipper for the rest of his life. Not even if, let's say, Molag Bal daedrafied him (I'd hate that - it would probably shove him into the "baddie" role forever, without the chance of us ever getting nuanced lore about his private side beyond being "the evil cult leader") and made him one of his generals of what ever. Mannimarco doesn't want to serve anyone, that's clear. So what else but a traitor and an enemy would Molag Bal ever see in him? I just can't see how they'd ever side together again. Realistically, there should be a huge internal conflict in the Worm Cult now.
The only explanation that might make sense is if Mannimarco might not actually be Mannimarco but some daedric being Molag Bal sent to Nirn in his place - maybe hoping that with Mannimarco's reputation it would be easier to control the Worm Cult? Which would then lead to the question where the real Mannimarco is. Maybe still bathing in azure plasm in Coldharbor.Hah, well, good luck on your search! I'd think if anything like that happened, they'd just reset the event. (Assuming they can do that).
I'm sure about that. Still, it would be interesting to see it.From where did we take the portal to Stirk? Was it the Wayrest Mages Guild? Maybe check there to see if they left it open. They leave the one to Eyevea open all the time, so it's possible!
I think the last time, the portal to Stirk opened directly from the Earth Forge. But how did we leave Stirk again? It was a portal, wasn't it? I hope that one might still be open, but I really can't remember where it led to...
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, that's good to know. If I ever feel particularly brave one day, it's possible I could try it out. Unless the lead has a 100% drop rate, however, I'd still have to rate it not worth my time. Large group activity just isn't for me.
I do understand why developers put these incentives in, and generally I'm fine with rewards being out of my reach because of my choice to not participate in the content. Only sometime I get a little cranky, is all.
It depends on the lead/skill style but some of them do have a very high drop rate. I think one of the skill styles is actually guaranteed, although I can't remember which. Also communication in trials tends to be mostly just the tanks discussing which tank will pull what and getting a couple of volunteers for the weirder/harder tasks. So, you don't even have to socialize in the pickup groups if you don't want to.
I think you'd be surprised at how very casual normal trials are. It's not like typical large group content at all due to their ease. I can understand if you don't like that type of thing. Just tossing it out there that leads are pretty easy to drop from there mostly. Most of them wouldn't be a grind.Edited by spartaxoxo on 7 September 2025 18:360 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I mean, I suppose there's the outside chance that could happen. But have you seen what passes for "assistants" in Tamriel? Buffoons and bumblers, everywhere you look!
A good assistant is a precious thing. One that doesn't run away if things get dangerous, most of all. With all those world-ending threats, Tamriel is unreliable enough. No need for an "assistant" who suddenly bolts half-way on your pilgrimage to Red Mountain
So where does one find one of these fabled good assistants? Because they seem very uncommon; one might even say rare!There's definitely a balance to be struck between "incentivize" and "frustrate", and from my experience MMOs generally don't achieve that balance.
Sometimes it makes me wonder whether I'm just not the intended target group for this genre and the average player enjoys it the way it is, or whether actually most people are frustrated, but it's still like that, for unknown reasons (maybe because people still accept it, even if frustrated, and that's the main thing most companies who maintain these games usually are interested in, I guess). Well, I really don't know. I'm not an MMO person and the only reason I'm playing ESO is that it's a TES game and I enjoy the lore.
While there might be some people who do enjoy the various grinds and gates built into MMOs, I would guess that most people just do the associated grinds because it's worth their time for the reward at the end. But that's just a guess.That's what I thought, too, until one December when I came up short on event tickets, and so used crowns to buy the last few I needed. Live and learn. I'll play it safe this time around and do some Undaunted work.
Last year, I had the "problem" of having so many spare tickets I wasn't even sure what to do with them (It's not a real problem, of course - I could have just not done the event quests, but it were events where it's very fastly done, so not doing it would somehow be unreasonable, right? ). It's nice they also offer a few things at the Impresaria now for this occasion, although at some point, you've got enough of these guild things for companions, and repair kits aren't really interesting for me anyway, since I usually already have so many of them. I'd hope they could include more basic furniture for spare tickets. Nothing fancy, so people wouldn't complain they miss it because they don't have enough tickets - just something small and useful, at best somehow related to the event, could even be something that's craftable, I wouldn't mind that. I know there are already some furnishings available for sale for some events (like all those cakes during the anniversary), but not for all of them yet. Well, or they could increase the limit of tickets we can hold (12 is rather low), but I somehow don't see that happen.
I really do think the ticket cap could do with being raised. I understand why there is a cap, sort of (one of those MMO gates) but twelve is just so low. Well, at least they have added things for people to spend their tickets on, for those who do all the events and never have a ticket deficit.Perhaps there's a latent magical energy in Nirn itself that seeps into natural objects over time, so the longer something has been in contact with Nirn, the more magical energy it gets.
They didn't really give us any background lore to the ammonites, did they? Just that they contain energy, and that's it.
There's always the chance it comes up later in some way.At this point, I'm not sure I know why anyone is doing anything (other than the Stirk Fellowship). I'm fine with hidden motivations, or obscure ones, or even slightly nutty ones, but to have no hint at all? Well, ok, "because evil" I suppose is the motivation for the Worm Cult, so there's that. But the daedra? Molag Bal? What are any of them getting out of this? I guess Meridia's motivation is: whatever Molag Bal does, she wants to thwart. Of course, she's not really involved herself; we just used her realm for our shenanigans and then pulled her knight back from wherever he was.
I want to be honest: If there's no reasonable explanation for all this until the end of Part 2, I'll be disappointed. Which would again show what this "they're evil people doing evil things just because" thing doesn't work for me. I won't really be invested and immersed in a story if people seem to be doing things completely randomly or "because the writer made said so", but there's no plausible motivations we learn of. Right now, there are just a lot of open questions, and if the intention is to make us wonder, well, that might have worked - but that calls for a big resolution at the end of the story, otherwise it's just... weird.
Well, it's definitely made me wonder and speculate a lot about part two. I'm hoping for at least a moderately satisfying conclusion. I know all my questions won't be answered, and I know I may not like some of the answers I get. But if the motivations make sense for the characters involved, that would be the best.To me it went down like this: Mezzama opened a portal to Coldharbour because she/it couldn't open one to Solstice (remember, portals are supposed to be tricky there). Ok, so Great Mage kidnapped and in Coldharbour, but that isn't where they really want him; they want him on Solstice, so at the first convenient moment, they move him there, when they have the time and peace (no pesky heroes distracting them) to accomplish such a difficult portal maneuver. So if Mezzama had been better at portals, they could have sent him directly to Solstice. As to why he needs to be on Solstice: that's where all the action is! They have Big Plans! The Great Mage has Big Magic! They probably want to siphon his Big Magic for their Big Plans.
I honestly expect something like that. Some kind of "sacrifice" situation (even if it's not entirely plausible considering that Mannimarco certainly wouldn't want to kill Vanny) - if there was a volcano on the island, he'd probably end up as the damsel in distress about to be thrown into the crater Luckily, there isn't, but unfortunately, there's Mor Naril. Anyway, I somehow expect them trying to harvest his power somehow, for... whatever it is. Transfering it to Mannimarco, maybe. Probably not a story taking into consideration their shared past. Sigh.
I really am worried for the Great Mage. They kidnapped him for a reason, and clearly didn't intend to hand him over for the Gift of Death (even if we had been sincere on our end of that bargain). They want him for something, and I don't like where this is heading.I dunno, I would think a dagger in the shoulder pinning one to the ground would be a pretty effective deterrent. Raz didn't kill him, so no resurrecting. The pain was probably making him unable to think clearly. It also was all supposed to take place fairly quickly. We weren't meant to linger and sip wine while watching them. The building was falling down!
It's not his shoulder, it's directly aimed at his heart. He could have impaled himself on it to insta-rez and flee. I mean, not that he fled anyway, later.
Hmm, well, maybe it's just the angle of the screenshot, but the dagger looks to be more over his shoulder than his heart. If he even has a heart.Another Solstice mystery!
The biggest Solstice mystery for me is why they transported the sarcophagus from the East of Solstice to the West (that's stated in dialogue - it has arrived from the Eastern side) only for us to discover it there, while for the resurrection ritual just keeping it on the East - where all those special necromantic locations are - would have made much more sense.
I mean, yes, I know, the ritual seemed to have been planned with the Mine as the location at some point (at least we see that in that one trailer), but the way it's right now doesn't really make sense.
It really doesn't make sense, and I do wonder why they did that. That could simply be necessary for the plot. We needed to see the sarcophagus; we couldn't get to the east side of the island; therefore sarcophagus gets brought to the west.I really don't know. When I first saw how it all went down, with Mannimarco taking over Wormblood's body and Wormblood protesting, I thought: well, now there's an evicted soul somewhere we might interact with at some point. Then in the end scene in the Regent's palace, Raz says pretty confidently that Wormblood is gone for good. Now, I don't think Raz is any kind of expert on the nuances of souls, so I can take that as him just expressing what he thinks probably happened, and the possibility is still out there we might come across Wormblood's soul. What I'm not sure of is the writer's intent. Was Raz saying that their way of telling us: Wormblood's done and gone? Or are they laying the groundwork for a surprise/twist, where they lead us to believe Wormblood's gone but that's not actually the case? Basically: was Raz's comment simple exposition or careful plotting?
By what we've seen in TES lore before I'd expect both souls to be present in Wormblood's body, seperate or merged. It would be strange if one of them was just "gone". Where would it even go to? Why would it be able to float around formlessly somewhere? But honestly, we don't even know how and why Mannimarco's soul could just return now, since we've been told before that the Gift of Death was necessary for that, and they didn't get that thing. It still returned, anyway. In that moment - not later, and not a week earlier either. Without knowing what kind of ritual that was (yes, yes, I know, "some sinister necromantic ritual"), anything is possible. Maybe they'll say it was a soul swapping ritual and Wormblood's soul ended up where Mannimarco's was? Maybe Coldharbor? And now it gets transported to Solstice again by the reverse Planemeld? Well, that would be... not well-planned from Mannimarco's side, I guess.
I also wonder whether Wormblood's end (so far) was supposed to be a bit of a moral story. Like: Look what happens if you do evil necromantic things! - Then we surely won't ever hear of Wormblood again.
I don't think there was a moral to the story with Wormblood. I'm sure we're not meant to feel any pity for or sympathy with him or really care about his end, but I don't get the feeling it was all in service to a particular lesson.
As for his soul and the likelihood of it existing or not: technically, the lore around souls is whatever they say it is, so his soul not behaving like other souls in the past wouldn't necessarily be "lore-breaking." If Mannimarco's soul going into Wormblood's body just snuffed out Wormblood's soul, that will be disappointing to me. When they said "gone", I took it to mean no longer exists, not that it went anyplace. Just pure obliteration. Which, if possible, would be really frightening to the people of Tamriel, I would think. Similar to how they view what the Blade of Woe does. Whether or not we'll ever get any kind of explanation for the metaphysics of what happened in that ritual, I don't know. We've talked before about them still being able to summon Mannimarco's soul without the Gift of Death seems like a plot hole, so I can't really say what's up with that. Maybe we'll find out it was all made possible because they did the ritual in the Colored Rooms, which is just Coldharbour Lite, and so the soul was easier to find and grasp.If we do come across whatever remains of Wormblood, I would rather he doesn't have remorse for what he did, but anger at what Mannimarco did, and he wants revenge, and so helps us to further his goal. Then we could decide whether or not his help is worth it, because it might lead to him being back in the world, and would that really be a good outcome?
Anger? I don't know. In a way he did impose this on himself. So in a way what happened was justified. He didn't seem much like an emotional person either.
Well, there's keeping oneself in hand in the normal day to day of necromancer life, and then there's having all one's plans scuttled and one's entire self usurped. I would think the latter would be cause for anger, no matter how self-controlled one is. And while we might think what happened was justified and that he brought it on himself, would he? He didn't seem any too pleased or calm about it when he realized what was about to happen.While I'd like to be able to talk to him again - and most of all get at least a bit of background lore on who his is - I'd still hope for a more interesting characterization of Mannimarco. It's really hard to say what will happen, since the whole situation with Molag Bal and the cult is rather unclear.
They can do both, though. Why can't we learn more about Wormblood and get more interesting characterization of Mannimarco? I'm not saying I want Wormblood to be the main character or anything, but I don't see why he was so quickly tossed aside.With all the info we have right now, things just don't add up. The Worm Cult worships Molag Bal and there are suddenly even daedra among them. But still, their new leader wants to resurrect Mannimarco, who is seen as a traitor and imprisoned by Molag Bal. How can that be explained: A worshipper of a deity openly trying to free a prisoner of said deity?
And now Mannimarco's back and leads the Worm Cult that worships Molag Bal once more...? Even if Mannimarco promised Molag Bal whatever now to regain his favor - who would believe that? Everyone knows he has his apotheosis plans and will certainly not be okay with just being a cult leader and Molag Bal worshipper for the rest of his life. Not even if, let's say, Molag Bal daedrafied him (I'd hate that - it would probably shove him into the "baddie" role forever, without the chance of us ever getting nuanced lore about his private side beyond being "the evil cult leader") and made him one of his generals of what ever. Mannimarco doesn't want to serve anyone, that's clear. So what else but a traitor and an enemy would Molag Bal ever see in him? I just can't see how they'd ever side together again. Realistically, there should be a huge internal conflict in the Worm Cult now.
Well, I agree. It has never made sense to me that the Worm Cult is back. Finding out they're working for Molag Bal again is just as unbelievable.The only explanation that might make sense is if Mannimarco might not actually be Mannimarco but some daedric being Molag Bal sent to Nirn in his place - maybe hoping that with Mannimarco's reputation it would be easier to control the Worm Cult? Which would then lead to the question where the real Mannimarco is. Maybe still bathing in azure plasm in Coldharbor.
It's possible...maybe just slightly possible...that Mannimarco did somehow talk Molag Bal around on the subject of the Worm Cult and having him as leader of it again. I don't think that would be a good story, or even a likely one, but Mannimarco is supposed to be that accomplished smooth talker, so...maybe?From where did we take the portal to Stirk? Was it the Wayrest Mages Guild? Maybe check there to see if they left it open. They leave the one to Eyevea open all the time, so it's possible!
I think the last time, the portal to Stirk opened directly from the Earth Forge. But how did we leave Stirk again? It was a portal, wasn't it? I hope that one might still be open, but I really can't remember where it led to...
It's always portals. Or magical horses. Maybe now and then an enchanted boat.spartaxoxo wrote: »Well, that's good to know. If I ever feel particularly brave one day, it's possible I could try it out. Unless the lead has a 100% drop rate, however, I'd still have to rate it not worth my time. Large group activity just isn't for me.
I do understand why developers put these incentives in, and generally I'm fine with rewards being out of my reach because of my choice to not participate in the content. Only sometime I get a little cranky, is all.
It depends on the lead/skill style but some of them do have a very high drop rate. I think one of the skill styles is actually guaranteed, although I can't remember which. Also communication in trials tends to be mostly just the tanks discussing which tank will pull what and getting a couple of volunteers for the weirder/harder tasks. So, you don't even have to socialize in the pickup groups if you don't want to.
I think you'd be surprised at how very casual normal trials are. It's not like typical large group content at all due to their ease. I can understand if you don't like that type of thing. Just tossing it out there that leads are pretty easy to drop from there mostly. Most of them wouldn't be a grind.
I honestly would be surprised to find that normal trials are casual. Perhaps I will give one a go; it would be something different. Thank you for the information; I do appreciate it.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So where does one find one of these fabled good assistants?
Not among mercenaries, that's for sure.I really do think the ticket cap could do with being raised. I understand why there is a cap, sort of (one of those MMO gates) but twelve is just so low.
I think 20 would be fine, so you could actually skip an event sometimes (because realistically, not everyone has time to play every day throughout the year) and still buy the new collectible parts introduced during it. Often it's just 1, and then the 12 tickets might be sufficient, but some events introduce 2 new parts, then it gets a bit annoying to catch up, especially if it's near the end of a quarter and the parts disappear again until the December event. I know of course that things will never get too convenient, since they want event participation, and tickets are also sold through the store.There's always the chance it comes up later in some way.
There's also a chance a lore bit might just be forgotten and will never come up again. I really hope we'll learn more about this at some point, though. It's always a pity if a new concept or world lore gets introduced, but then never picked up again.Well, it's definitely made me wonder and speculate a lot about part two. I'm hoping for at least a moderately satisfying conclusion. I know all my questions won't be answered, and I know I may not like some of the answers I get. But if the motivations make sense for the characters involved, that would be the best.
The worst outcome for me personally would be if the end of the story would be more or less void of actual background lore. Basically just an "action" focused story: Huge sinister ritual, Vanny is intended to be sacrificed because "Worm Cult = evil", we of course stop the ritual in the last second, Mannimarco dies once more, story's over; and we learned nothing about Wormblood, nothing new about Mannimarco, nothing about why there were daedra in the Worm Cult, not much about the new locations, no background info on the Wall despite the striking similitary to Dunmeri ghost fences,... Yeah, that would be boring for me personally, because the lore is the reason I'm here. Of course I enjoy a good, entertaining story, but I really like TES lore, so I want to explore it and learn about this world.I really am worried for the Great Mage. They kidnapped him for a reason, and clearly didn't intend to hand him over for the Gift of Death (even if we had been sincere on our end of that bargain). They want him for something, and I don't like where this is heading.
It's clear that, if they just wanted to remove him, they would have already killed him. The big question is: For what exactly do they keep him? I mean, if it had been Mannimarco who had kidnapped him, and we'd be lore accurate, I'd be less worried for his life, to be honest (he would keep him prisoner, but I don't think he'd want to kill him). But if we assume Wormblood is not Soul Shriven Mannimarco: Did he know that Mannimarco has a personal interest in Vanny? If not, the reason for the kidnapping can only be some kind of ritual, probably.Hmm, well, maybe it's just the angle of the screenshot, but the dagger looks to be more over his shoulder than his heart. If he even has a heart.
I'd assumed the rhombus shaped thing on his armor is on the middle of his chest, basically above the sternum. The dagger seems to point directly next to it, on the left side. No matter if he's a mortal or a daedra, his heart should be there (unless he's suffering from situs inversus, but Razum-dar can't know that ).It really doesn't make sense, and I do wonder why they did that. That could simply be necessary for the plot. We needed to see the sarcophagus; we couldn't get to the east side of the island; therefore sarcophagus gets brought to the west.
It would be interesting to learn how the first outline of the story looked like, since we have all those hints that the resurrection might have been supposed to take place there, originally.
Right now it looks to me like they might have just decided at some point that it would be awesome to put the Colored Rooms into the story and bring Darien back, to they moved the resurrection scene there and gave us that dramatic ending - but it made all those transports of the sarcophagus really implausible.
Now, since we couldn't go to East Solstice but had to see the sarcophagus somewhere, I'd have rather prefered some scene where we find it on a ship somewhere at the coast (Maybe at the shore outside the mine - isn't there even a Worm Cult camp anyway?) - basically witnessing the transport to Solstice, from where ever it had been before. That would have made more sense than it being in East Solstice before and then being brought to West Solstice for absolutely no reason.Well, there's keeping oneself in hand in the normal day to day of necromancer life, and then there's having all one's plans scuttled and one's entire self usurped. I would think the latter would be cause for anger, no matter how self-controlled one is. And while we might think what happened was justified and that he brought it on himself, would he? He didn't seem any too pleased or calm about it when he realized what was about to happen.
He wanted to bring Mannimarco back. He brought him back. From my point of view, that was a successThey can do both, though. Why can't we learn more about Wormblood and get more interesting characterization of Mannimarco? I'm not saying I want Wormblood to be the main character or anything, but I don't see why he was so quickly tossed aside.
Of course I'd prefer to see more lore on both. But if they focus on Wormblood as a more morally grey character, there's the risk it will get a really black/white story and Mannimarco would probably end up being just "that evil guy", and that's it. I somehow just can't see them giving us a lot of lore on both of them. Think of the scope of the story - it probably won't be longer than Part 1, and there's so much that would need explanation and characterization. They'll have to limit themselves. So, if I had to choose, I'd rather see more nuance about Mannimarco, since he's a character important for TES lore overall.Well, I agree. It has never made sense to me that the Worm Cult is back. Finding out they're working for Molag Bal again is just as unbelievable.
I don't mind the return of the Worm Cult that much. Mannimarco having a plan B doesn't seem that unreasonable. I'd also have liked some more personal "Mannimarco's corpse was brought to his Corelanya family after his death and some relative gets stupid ideas" story. But still being allied with Molag Bal? After the ending of the base game main quest, it doesn't make sense.It's possible...maybe just slightly possible...that Mannimarco did somehow talk Molag Bal around on the subject of the Worm Cult and having him as leader of it again. I don't think that would be a good story, or even a likely one, but Mannimarco is supposed to be that accomplished smooth talker, so...maybe?
It feels unrealistic to me. Mannimarco might have rhetorical talent, but fooling Molag Bal once more after what happened?! He can't be that dumb. It would even be more believable if he just found it funny to see Mannimarco failing.It's always portals. Or magical horses. Maybe now and then an enchanted boat.
Unless the story wants us to walk, or be stopped by some kind of barrier or puzzle, then for some reason portals aren't possible.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0
