I would assume that eventually ZOS would have to make that decision.

Nick’s first statement as Director was that it is intended that ESO be a 30-year game. So… do we honestly expect that ESO in 2045 will still be shackled by 2014-era hardware?

Making the game actively worse to cater to obsolete hardware does not seem to be a strategy for longevity. Eventually, they will need to drop things holding the game back… and hopefully before the players who are frustrated from this backsliding and lack of progress go find games that don’t try to kneecap themselves.

lostineternity wrote: »

This is from "Studio Director's Letter: 2025"



What can I say... The overall feel from combat with animation improved so much that I can say Oblivion original combat animations from 2006 are not so dated anymore...

p.s. amazing read overall, I have never had so much spaghetti on my ears

Maybe @ZOS_Kevin can enlighten us more on how we went from improving the combat feel to downgrading for the old tech in just under a year? I suspected the whole letter was a way with words to mask what actually happens with the game, painting downgrades as features and cut corners as new and bold strategies but definitely would want to hear from someone from zos on it.

colossalvoids wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We went through with the animation reduction efforts in order to save memory for future development efforts within the game. We have heavy constraints with older platforms that require us to save as much memory as we can to ensure that future features will run on every supported platform.

We updated over 900 animation files in order to support this effort, including animations that are used outside of player combat. We have gotten many fantastic reports of animation issues from players on PTS, but tracking down reproductions of these issues and the appropriate fixes on our internal realms takes time.

Similarly, bugs that turned out not to be a direct result of this effort also affected combat animations and needed investigation - for example, certain abilities not doing damage and an issue with controller UI causing performance issues on PC were both issues that impacted the visual look of animations in combat but were not caused by this effort.

As you continue to come across issues, please let us know. Videos of the issues are extremely helpful in tracking down potential bugs and the team will continue to do all we can to ensure that any confirmed issues are addressed in an upcoming package.

I'll be just dead honest here but when you're cutting on a very core parts of the game to fit something new it's a symptom of a bigger disease. Not that it's just bad inherently by itself as it's a direct downgrade with combat feel and smoothness which are a core part why ESO is still played by many despite many issues it has, but it can't be done indefinitely cutting every smooth corner into a strictly optimised asset lacking their basic properties.

It also should be evaluated if those new things even worth it with those downgrades. Like we got a new card game and I'm betting it's not as well received as company hoped and still here we are, stuck with it and might probably be the one thing also holding a precious memory slot that can be used elsewhere for a better overall experience with the game. Not even mentioning that maybe, a better solution would be dropping the objectively weaker consoles and optimising the other things properly to for them to still have an ability to load a 10yo game despite new requirements.

From a player’s perspective, it seems like there could be some additional optimizations made that would be the more preferable low-hanging fruit.

1. Remove bodies of dead npcs and bosses when the respawn occurs, or earlier if the player seeing them is not able to loot the body.
2. Remove the repeating play of animation for mount summoning that other players see when the that player is already on the mount and riding.
3. Allow turning off other player ability animations on consoles.
4. Allow turning off other player combat pets and companions.
5. Create more instances to lower the amount of players in each instance and reduce strain.

I don’t know exactly what the savings might be for these, or if it is even possible in the last one, but it would be worth investigating. Each one might be small but the aggregate could be significant.

Like you, I am concerned that even upgrading machines only seems to work for a while before some kind of code bloat catches up. PS5 came along in time to save performance issues on PS4, but now even PS5 is seeing those same issues again. The game frequently struggles and fails to show the glow of wayshrines, the Volundrung portal in Cyrodiil, and similar items. I suspect it is due to the rapidly increasing number of glowing mounts, costumes, emotes, etc. from the Crown store. These things are great if they are making money for ZOS, but if they are causing harm to the gameplay then they need to be addressed in some way, like allowing players turn other player’s high performance visuals on older machines with performance issues, if they are going to be supported. I know this would not be their first choice but it seems easier to do than redo the complete list of combat animations.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We went through with the animation reduction efforts in order to save memory for future development efforts within the game. We have heavy constraints with older platforms that require us to save as much memory as we can to ensure that future features will run on every supported platform.

We updated over 900 animation files in order to support this effort, including animations that are used outside of player combat. We have gotten many fantastic reports of animation issues from players on PTS, but tracking down reproductions of these issues and the appropriate fixes on our internal realms takes time.

Similarly, bugs that turned out not to be a direct result of this effort also affected combat animations and needed investigation - for example, certain abilities not doing damage and an issue with controller UI causing performance issues on PC were both issues that impacted the visual look of animations in combat but were not caused by this effort.

As you continue to come across issues, please let us know. Videos of the issues are extremely helpful in tracking down potential bugs and the team will continue to do all we can to ensure that any confirmed issues are addressed in an upcoming package.

Im just so confused as to why ZOS feels it needs to maintain these older platforms ability to access the game. This is like a city deciding it needs to turn roads into slip and slides because individual drivers drove their cars til the tires fell off. Now those tireless cars can get around with a push but all of those who maintained their cars have to deal with the consequences of the roads having no traction.

PS5/NA, Mages wrath doesn't seem to be working consistently in Battlegrounds. It doesn't connect unless you're standing still and staring another player in the face. Its like the skill isn't firing at all or if it does fire it either does not connect or does zero damage. I'm assuming this is a result of the new animation parameters? I'm also assuming it will be fixed at some point, until then any suggestions on what to replace that execute skill with on a non-subclassed magsorc?

Side note, I doubt this game will stop supporting the older platforms until the company stops supporting them. Until Microsoft and Sony discontinue support I don't think ZOS can or will stop supporting them.

StihlReign wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

A rough estimate of players by platform:
PC: ~40-45%
PlayStation: ~35-40%
Xbox: ~15-20%
(Google AI used 18 sources to estimate these.)

In 2024 Playstation 4 vs Playstation 5 users were 50/50.
In 2025 it's 30/70.

We can assume Xbox One and Xbox Series have similar distribution.

Consoles are therefore more than half of the player count.

And half of them played on old hardware last year, still 30% of players this year.

That's a lot of money. Would you be willing to drop 30% of your income?

Yes. Since the old income (30%) is preventing new income, I'd devise a strategy and campaign to replace them with higher income and let them know - technology is doing what it's ALWAYS done, moving forward and providing the same awesome experience it provided when you first purchased your current outdated equipment. Instead of diminishing the experience of everyone, I'd reduce the features available to the old systems to give them some time to sunset their systems, and I'd give them a timetable and the reason.

To entice them, I'd continue doing what brought them in the first place: Announce amazing updates and features available to the cutting edge and middle systems. I may lose some, but society and most folks employment has drilled the silent mantra of tech update into almost everyone at every age and level of society.

Can cellphones use the 3g network?

It took Playstation 5 four years to have as many users as Playstation 4. It took five years to go past Playstation 4 player count. Technology does go forward, but a large portion of the customer base is lagging a few years behind. They also have money they are willing to give to ZOS.

Even 10% is a huge number and to think that adding a few furniture slots and smoother animations would suddenly bring in 10% more customers on new hardware is not going to happen, little alone 30% more.

However, the trend looks good. PS4 players dropped from 50% to 30% of Playstation users from last year, so I would assume next year there'll be ~20%. So maybe in 2027 there's so few it doesn't make financial sense to keep legacy device support.

ADarklore wrote: »

EDIT: Now that I think about it. Considering ZOS is now owned by a 'console manufacturer' in Microsoft, THEY probably insist that their outdated XBOX consoles continue to be support, it's probably not a decision that ZOS can make independently.

Good point. I had assumed XB One vs XB Series follow similar trend to PS4 vs PS5. But assuming might lead you astray. So I checked.

XBox Live has 130 million monthly users.
XBox Series has sold 33 million units.

...so 100 million users are not using the current gen XBox. Ok, so while on PS the current gen has surpassed the previous gen console just this year, it may take a few years before XBox Series surpasses XBox One.

So yeah, maybe my estimation that perhaps in 2027 the older console support can be dropped was too optimistic.

frogthroat wrote: »

It took Playstation 5 four years to have as many users as Playstation 4. It took five years to go past Playstation 4 player count. Technology does go forward, but a large portion of the customer base is lagging a few years behind. They also have money they are willing to give to ZOS.

Even 10% is a huge number and to think that adding a few furniture slots and smoother animations would suddenly bring in 10% more customers on new hardware is not going to happen, little alone 30% more.

However, the trend looks good. PS4 players dropped from 50% to 30% of Playstation users from last year, so I would assume next year there'll be ~20%. So maybe in 2027 there's so few it doesn't make financial sense to keep legacy device support.

Furniture slots and the default animations are minor considerations in the grand scheme of what new tech ESO could offer the player base were it not degrading current systems to accommodate aged hardware and no longer supported operating systems. Tons of folks have money and have demonstrated they're willing to give it ZOS.

We have to remember, they're degrading current systems as accommodation...they can sell the old animations and new stuff, a bit tougher to sell broke animations, poor combat, and reskins. I'm not their actuary so we'll see how it plays out.

frogthroat wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We went through with the animation reduction efforts in order to save memory for future development efforts within the game. We have heavy constraints with older platforms that require us to save as much memory as we can to ensure that future features will run on every supported platform.

We updated over 900 animation files in order to support this effort, including animations that are used outside of player combat. We have gotten many fantastic reports of animation issues from players on PTS, but tracking down reproductions of these issues and the appropriate fixes on our internal realms takes time.

Similarly, bugs that turned out not to be a direct result of this effort also affected combat animations and needed investigation - for example, certain abilities not doing damage and an issue with controller UI causing performance issues on PC were both issues that impacted the visual look of animations in combat but were not caused by this effort.

As you continue to come across issues, please let us know. Videos of the issues are extremely helpful in tracking down potential bugs and the team will continue to do all we can to ensure that any confirmed issues are addressed in an upcoming package.

Im just so confused as to why ZOS feels it needs to maintain these older platforms ability to access the game. This is like a city deciding it needs to turn roads into slip and slides because individual drivers drove their cars til the tires fell off. Now those tireless cars can get around with a push but all of those who maintained their cars have to deal with the consequences of the roads having no traction.

A rough estimate of players by platform:
PC: ~40-45%
PlayStation: ~35-40%
Xbox: ~15-20%
(Google AI used 18 sources to estimate these.)

In 2024 Playstation 4 vs Playstation 5 users were 50/50.
In 2025 it's 30/70.

We can assume Xbox One and Xbox Series have similar distribution.

Consoles are therefore more than half of the player count.

And half of them played on old hardware last year, still 30% of players this year.

That's a lot of money. Would you be willing to drop 30% of your income?

People are not mad that they haven't randomly dropped support for older platforms, people are mad because the game has been held back and made worse to help performance on the weakest system. I'd be willing to bet that not even all players on the older consoles are unanimously happy with that direction. Many want a functioning, populated and continuously improving game. If it costs a couple FPS, a longer load screen or a graphic setting change that may be well worth it - even before a hardware upgrade is being considered.

frogthroat wrote: »

And half of them played on old hardware last year, still 30% of players this year.

That's a lot of money. Would you be willing to drop 30% of your income?

Percentage of players on x platforms doesn't necessary equal percentage of income. It wouldn't be too unrealistic to reason that those not willing to invest so much into gaming (by upgrading what they play on) are... not willing to invest so much in gaming (by spending on an individual game).

What I do know is that many players in my own groups are dropping any financial support for the game because we're just so tired of low quality content, what feels like very disconnected development, and now what feels like a direct downgrade to the flow of combat.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

they really have to abandon the xbox series s at this point im sorry - its just holding the game back so much that it will just hurt the playerbase...besides the next msoft console is apparently high end premium high performance so it makes even less sense

The series S is fourth generation, that is 5 years old, that ain't the generation people are pointing fingers at.

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Imagine how much space could've been saved if we never got tales of tribute or companions; neither was really asked for. But I digress...

And had companions not been released, we'd probably have even less players as well. It was companions that kept me playing, but then due to poor decisions by ZOS, I left... will probably return at some point, but currently ESO isn't where it needs to be for me to return. But the fact that I'm here in the forums on occasion, shows that it still holds my interest.