This is how ESO recovers: a tale of two MMOs

moderatelyfatman · September 22

This is just one fat man's two cent rant during his lunch break.
So, Steam player numbers are the lowest in seven years and many guilds discords are so quiet now that a sparrow's fart would set their ears ringing. And this year's Season of the Worm Cult dlc is currently holding the beer for the Big Mac in the shrinkflation stakes.

So where does ESO go from here?
I think the possible directions can be found in two MMOs: Aion and Guild Wars 2.

Down, down and even further down: AION

Admittedly I've never played this MMO and, given the current numbers, you've probably never played it either. But when the current population is less than 1% of the peak, you know that the next big dlc is not around the corner.
From what I've heard from the impeccable source known as youtubers, Aion is definitely in maintenance mode: they occasionally release some new content but it's mostly recycled assets. The only really new items are from the in-game cash shop.
Rumour has it that the game is making enough money from a few hundred whales, buying everything the moment it appears in the shop, to keep the servers running.

OR

... From the ashes, like a phoenix: Guild Wars 2

So, a base game MMO comes out and the next year it is followed by nothing. The following year and the year after are the same. Player numbers peak but over the next four years start to go into long term decline as rumour takes over about the game being in maintenance mode.
But behind the scenes the devs worked their lower posteriors off, rewrote parts of the code and numerous zones to allow characters to glide. They then released a new expansion where the maps were fully 3D and required to explore the full verticality. It completely changed the game exploration dynamic as high above you entirely different adventures were occuring amongst the tree tops while you fought on the forest floor.
After that they released an expansion every year or two with some really massive innovations. They brought in mounts that could jump, swim or fly.
They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.
And the players came back, brought friends with them and the game was better than ever.

So where do I think ESO is headed? I believe ESO's current direction is trending towards the Aion model with declining player numbers and an ever-increasing reliance of a small number of whales to keep things afloat.

But can ESO reverse this and come back bigger and better than ever like Guild Wars 2? Absolutely, but it won't be easy.
The biggest elephant in the room is Microsoft. If Microsoft only wanted ZOS for their IP (namely Elderscrolls 6, Fallout etc) and see WoW as their premiere fantasy MMO, then we're up the Ganges without a paddle.
But if Microsoft see ESO not as a rival to WoW but an alternative, then things will be much brighter. It still won't be easy because when Guild Wars 2 went quiet, the game was left in a pretty decent place regarding class balance and general performance, two issues which are plagueing ESO.

So, what do people think?

wolfie1.0. · September 22

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

This is just one fat man's two cent rant during his lunch break.
So, Steam player numbers are the lowest in seven years and many guilds discords are so quiet now that a sparrow's fart would set their ears ringing. And this year's Season of the Worm Cult dlc is currently holding the beer for the Big Mac in the shrinkflation stakes.

So where does ESO go from here?
I think the possible directions can be found in two MMOs: Aion and Guild Wars 2.

Down, down and even further down: AION

Admittedly I've never played this MMO and, given the current numbers, you've probably never played it either. But when the current population is less than 1% of the peak, you know that the next big dlc is not around the corner.
From what I've heard from the impeccable source known as youtubers, Aion is definitely in maintenance mode: they occasionally release some new content but it's mostly recycled assets. The only really new items are from the in-game cash shop.
Rumour has it that the game is making enough money from a few hundred whales, buying everything the moment it appears in the shop, to keep the servers running.

OR

... From the ashes, like a phoenix: Guild Wars 2

So, a base game MMO comes out and the next year it is followed by nothing. The following year and the year after are the same. Player numbers peak but over the next four years start to go into long term decline as rumour takes over about the game being in maintenance mode.
But behind the scenes the devs worked their lower posteriors off, rewrote parts of the code and numerous zones to allow characters to glide. They then released a new expansion where the maps were fully 3D and required to explore the full verticality. It completely changed the game exploration dynamic as high above you entirely different adventures were occuring amongst the tree tops while you fought on the forest floor.
After that they released an expansion every year or two with some really massive innovations. They brought in mounts that could jump, swim or fly.
They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.
And the players came back, brought friends with them and the game was better than ever.

So where do I think ESO is headed? I believe ESO's current direction is trending towards the Aion model with declining player numbers and an ever-increasing reliance of a small number of whales to keep things afloat.

But can ESO reverse this and come back bigger and better than ever like Guild Wars 2? Absolutely, but it won't be easy.
The biggest elephant in the room is Microsoft. If Microsoft only wanted ZOS for their IP (namely Elderscrolls 6, Fallout etc) and see WoW as their premiere fantasy MMO, then we're up the Ganges without a paddle.
But if Microsoft see ESO not as a rival to WoW but an alternative, then things will be much brighter. It still won't be easy because when Guild Wars 2 went quiet, the game was left in a pretty decent place regarding class balance and general performance, two issues which are plagueing ESO.

So, what do people think?

If its just up to Microsoft then we had better hope the AI bubble bursts and they are forced to give up on AI and big data mining. Because they could care less about gaming as a whole. Its in the $$$ reports.

OldStygian · September 22

Ya I recently dropped my ESO sub and have been playing GW2 for a few months now. Things in ESO were stale for me but I'd been playing for about 5 years so that's not really surprising.

Seeing the corporates starting to get their hooks into the franchise was the last last straw for me. I expect the enfecalization of the product will begin soon and it'll just get more annoying. I don't see ESO going under anytime soon, it'll take a long while, but I'm not holding out much hope for it getting significantly better. Time will tell.

SolarRune · September 22

It's an interesting take on things, and I agree that things could be learned from other games on how development of the game moves forward from this point.

I will point out that we don't know if this represents just a decrease on steam or if this can be used as a general proxy for decrease in the game. It will probably be a bit of both, with there being more launchers available to run the game since 2018 part of the downturn will likely be that some who previously used steam are now using epic. And (to my understanding) the loss of steam specific special offers also has had an impact.

However, I am one of those that agrees that the game feels less full, as someone that started around the covid bubble it feels much more empty to me. I beleive a bit part of this is readjustment after covid, I know it was years ago, but people will drop off a game they have put many hours into much more slowly than they took it up.

Faulgor · September 22

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.

ESO already did that, and apparently people hate it.

I have no clue what players are looking for anymore. But a consistent top complaint for 10 years that drove players away from ESO has been that "the combat sucks". Anything that aims to substantially turn things around would probably have to address that, but I just can't imagine them making fundamental changes to the game on this scale.

licenturion · September 22

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

MISTFORMBZZZ · September 22

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

Im glad the game is well populated for you on PC EU. Speaking for PS EU and XBOX EU, i can only tell you its already on ALBION level.

licenturion · September 22

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Im glad the game is well populated for you on PC EU. Speaking for PS EU and XBOX EU, i can only tell you its already on ALBION level.

That is why I mentioned the platform I am playing. Since OP used Steam numbers, I assume he is on PC as well.

I know console population is not the greatest right now. I am all for cross play and cross save between platforms and it is strange that hasn't been a thing by now. They had years...

colossalvoids · September 22

Faulgor wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.

ESO already did that, and apparently people hate it.

I have no clue what players are looking for anymore. But a consistent top complaint for 10 years that drove players away from ESO has been that "the combat sucks". Anything that aims to substantially turn things around would probably have to address that, but I just can't imagine them making fundamental changes to the game on this scale.

This consistent complaint is the same thing that is most consistent praise out there also, just another polarising thing that is "making or breaking" the game.

But talking about "specialisation" that's pretty much the opposite to what was done for many of us. We're not further specialised in anything, not deepening our class fantasy or connection with a character but making all the characters the same character at best, or alienating completely at worst. Surely some might see it as opening the system a bit, even read that people comparing it to something closer to main line TES spell system but personally I see it the exact opposite way. It might not be as bad in a long run and becoming just another polarising feature in the future is balanced properly, but currently it's not the case as far as I see feedback going.

Duskbinder · September 22

There’s not a lot of evidence here to suggest ESO is doing any worse overall, other than an anecdotal note about discord and guilds, as well as Steam figures — which for both ESO and GW2 don’t show the whole picture.

What does, at least when considering GW2, is that NCsoft publish quarterly figures for their games and the fact is, despite an increase in players (at least on Steam) this has not resulted in an increase in quarterly revenue. Quite the opposite in fact. On top of which, it is a tiny fraction of what NCsoft makes as a whole.

GW2 is free to start, which suggests that the increase may be down to players dipping their toes into it, but failing to commit long term (due to no quarterly revenue increase).

GW2 updates outside of expansion releases have been small. The game severely lacks quality of life features — as well as many accessibility features. The community appears to only have a single manager who is rarely visible outside of the occasional forum post.

ESO meanwhile has continued healthy sized updates with quality of life features added consistently and multiple wonderful community managers who frequently display their passion for the game, both here as well as on live streams.

In short, my point is that the figures we have as players are fractional at best. We as consumers have no idea about to true state of this game, but from what I see — especially when compared to GW2 — ESO is in much better shape.

Danikat · September 22

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

So, a base game MMO comes out and the next year it is followed by nothing. The following year and the year after are the same. Player numbers peak but over the next four years start to go into long term decline as rumour takes over about the game being in maintenance mode.
But behind the scenes the devs worked their lower posteriors off, rewrote parts of the code and numerous zones to allow characters to glide. They then released a new expansion where the maps were fully 3D and required to explore the full verticality. It completely changed the game exploration dynamic as high above you entirely different adventures were occuring amongst the tree tops while you fought on the forest floor.
After that they released an expansion every year or two with some really massive innovations. They brought in mounts that could jump, swim or fly.
They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.
And the players came back, brought friends with them and the game was better than ever.

It's a nice story, but not what happened.

The good news is the real version is close to what happened with ESO so if there are lessons to be learned for this game they probably wouldn't take a lot of changes to implement.

It's true GW2 released in 2012 and didn't get a paid expansion until 2015, but that doesn't mean there was nothing in between. Until January 2015 there were free updates at least once a month adding new story, sometimes new dungeons, festivals (real festivals with their own instances, lore and mini games, not just bonus drops from dailies) and other stuff, as well as new mechanics. You can see the full list here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release

At the time they planned to fund the game entirely through base game sales (the free version didn't exist until the first expansion) and cash shop cosmetics, so not making an expansion was a deliberate choice.

There was a gap from January 2015 until October when the first expansion came out, because they had to stop work on free updates to work on the expansion, which caused a huge backlash from fans at the time because it felt like we were effectively required to pay full price (the expansion cost the same as the base game) for what we could otherwise have gotten free, just because external media didn't cover free updates the same way they would a paid one. It was similar to the reaction when Morrowind was announced for ESO and subscribers found out they were required to pay seperately for what should have been included in their subscription price. (Like ESOs expansions people got used to it eventually, or quit the game, but it took a long time.)

Also they didn't make any changes to base game maps, which were already fully 3D. That was one of the big changes between GW1 and GW2, not GW2 and it's first expansion. GW1 famously doesn't have a Z axis, which firstly means no jumping, but also means there's some weirdness where for example if there's poison on the ground under a bridge and you're 2 stories up above it you'll still take damage from it. Putting a Z axis and full 3D movement into GW2 was one of the big changes they played up, but it was there from the start, not added with the first expansion. That's why so many base game maps have jumping puzzles in them, which often go over/under the normally explorable areas. Heart of Thorns did make more use of it, but it's definitely not the first time maps with different things happening on different levels had been seen.

(Also GW2 wasn't on Steam until it's 10th anniversay, in 2022, and the studio have never released player numbers so no one had data on activity during this time.)

IMO if ESO can learn anything from GW2 it's that their expansions have always had a few features and combat mechanics which can be used anywhere so there's an incentive for people to buy them even if they don't want the new maps and story. ESO used to do that, but it seems to have dropped off in recent years. Also they're about 1/2 the price of ESO expansions (£21.99 compared to £42.99 for the 2025 content pass).

Faulgor · September 22

colossalvoids wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.

ESO already did that, and apparently people hate it.

I have no clue what players are looking for anymore. But a consistent top complaint for 10 years that drove players away from ESO has been that "the combat sucks". Anything that aims to substantially turn things around would probably have to address that, but I just can't imagine them making fundamental changes to the game on this scale.

This consistent complaint is the same thing that is most consistent praise out there also, just another polarising thing that is "making or breaking" the game.

But talking about "specialisation" that's pretty much the opposite to what was done for many of us. We're not further specialised in anything, not deepening our class fantasy or connection with a character but making all the characters the same character at best, or alienating completely at worst. Surely some might see it as opening the system a bit, even read that people comparing it to something closer to main line TES spell system but personally I see it the exact opposite way. It might not be as bad in a long run and becoming just another polarising feature in the future is balanced properly, but currently it's not the case as far as I see feedback going.

I can't comprehend how we could live in such different universes. I have 20 max level characters, and they each have 2 completely different builds, according to their power fantasy and gameplay niche. Not only have there never been as many options, there have never been as many viable options.

I wish I could make even more, but they refuse to add more character slots.

colossalvoids · September 22

Faulgor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

They also introduce new class specialisations that changed the way you could play your class.

ESO already did that, and apparently people hate it.

I have no clue what players are looking for anymore. But a consistent top complaint for 10 years that drove players away from ESO has been that "the combat sucks". Anything that aims to substantially turn things around would probably have to address that, but I just can't imagine them making fundamental changes to the game on this scale.

This consistent complaint is the same thing that is most consistent praise out there also, just another polarising thing that is "making or breaking" the game.

But talking about "specialisation" that's pretty much the opposite to what was done for many of us. We're not further specialised in anything, not deepening our class fantasy or connection with a character but making all the characters the same character at best, or alienating completely at worst. Surely some might see it as opening the system a bit, even read that people comparing it to something closer to main line TES spell system but personally I see it the exact opposite way. It might not be as bad in a long run and becoming just another polarising feature in the future is balanced properly, but currently it's not the case as far as I see feedback going.

I can't comprehend how we could live in such different universes. I have 20 max level characters, and they each have 2 completely different builds, according to their power fantasy and gameplay niche. Not only have there never been as many options, there have never been as many viable options.

I wish I could make even more, but they refuse to add more character slots.

I can see that, have full max slots myself but for me it made all of them the same character with same access to every kit. Can go get a cloak on my warden and incapacitate my target before using the executioner's blade on them. Can do the same on a sorc, plar etc. but those are highly thematically specific abilities that are tied to classes in player minds.

My idea of specialisation would be more in line with having, as an example, 3 new sub lines for a nightblade, such as: spectral assassin (rogue), spellblade (arcane warrior) and a shadow mage. More deeply exploring the archetype and adding new, thematically driven abilities or exploring new or different morphs for ones already existing in their kit. Going back to having unique abilities without adding virtually the same ones to other classes, having specific sets that work best with specific classes and situations (like War Machine/Master Architect were) without making them severely underpowered or made for situations that almost non existent in actual content.

Or just go full sandbox and introduce traditional lines of illusion, destruction, etc. and neutralise current flavours of abilities and their dependency on existing classes all together. Both extremes honestly sound better and more fun than what we have currently with Mora's Nightblades of Meridia everywhere, though the current one was an extremely easy feature to implement on a go comparatively, I'd assume, as it adds nothing new but using everything already existing without any variation or consideration for the "base class" you're slapping it to.

Destai · September 22

So I'm playing Guild Wars 2 over ESO right now. I don't think ESO can have GW2's trajectory.

Nothing ZOS has done in the last 10 years makes me feel like they can get on GW2's level. I'm sure ESO has some technological limitations. But I'm sure some of it is also a matter of skill and vision.

All of GW2's systems are more meaningful, more complex, and frankly, more rewarding.

The open world is more engaging. There are multiple events in each zone running all the time. Meanwhile in ESO, this Writhing Wall event seems like a huge technological achievement for ZOS.
Each expansion is 4+ zones, each of the zones feature incredible verticality and layering. Each zone has its own cosmetics to unlock. Meanwhile in ESO, we get at most 2 zones per release with several supplemental crown store rotations.
The game is incredibly alt friendly. Account wide masteries make subsequent playthroughs easier. Meanwhile in ESO, we must wait 6 months for a mount to be fully upgraded per character.
Bug resolution is easier. They can push fixes without taking down the system. Meanwhile in ESO, we're still asking for "stuck in combat" to be fixed.
Cosmetics are much cheaper. Things like appearance tokens are a fraction of the cost of ESO's. Meanwhile in ESO, we got some new ~$50 houses coming out.
Legacy monetized offerings are earnable (imagine!) through the Wizard's Vault. They stay there indefinitely, so you can earn at your leisure. Meanwhile in ESO, we have Seals of Endeavors, where you have to weigh if you really want one thing and hope you have enough during that FOMO cycle.
Gear lasts a long time. Have a DPS set from launch - still relevant. Meanwhile in ESO, we have hundreds of sets that aren't relevant or useful outside of overland combat.

ESO has its merits, but I think it'll continue to be a seasonal game with less people returning each time. Unless they can loosen their focus on the crown store, put more rewards in the game, and pump out meatier content - I just don't see this game enjoying that kind of recovery.

StihlReign · September 22

ESO is more FOMO focused. Rather than leaning into giving the player characters depth, they've opted to destabilize the combat system while still neglecting the things players have asked for. RPs wanted thematic and combat based ice builds, fire mages etc.

ZOS heard this: problem with NB...ZOS - here's every NB ability. Warden AOE outrageous, Sorc heals and shields? Now you can have it too.
Revert Jabs? Suffer and like it.
Wanna win - BeeeEAM
Fix Necro? What's Necro?

Kappachi · September 22

since ZOS other mmo project was cancelled & this is their sole focus, don't think we're entering maintenance mode any time soon. Sounds like 2026 could be a big year and that's why the last couple of patches were a bit lighter (48/47). Possibly the huge overland difficulty change next year?

alpha_synuclein · September 22

I think I want to give GW2 a go

Mik195 · September 22

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

Im glad the game is well populated for you on PC EU. Speaking for PS EU and XBOX EU, i can only tell you its already on ALBION level.

Xbox NA is too populated for me or undersharded. I am picking up skyshards on a relatively new character and running into multiple other people while doing a delve makes the delve even more boring.

I do fully accept that the parts of the game I don't play may be underpopulated, but I agree with Sharp that there are too many people.

Kappachi · September 22

Mik195 wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

Im glad the game is well populated for you on PC EU. Speaking for PS EU and XBOX EU, i can only tell you its already on ALBION level.

Xbox NA is too populated for me or undersharded. I am picking up skyshards on a relatively new character and running into multiple other people while doing a delve makes the delve even more boring.

I do fully accept that the parts of the game I don't play may be underpopulated, but I agree with Sharp that there are too many people.

Come to PC NA and it is amazingly populated. Every zone/delve/etc has people running through it, there is no "underpopulated" zones. Any that are like a certain trial will fill when you throw it in GF.

Anyways any underpopulation stuff should be fixed soon too because they are adding cross-play in the future (finally).

The idea of it becoming "more boring" because you see people is strange considering this is an mmo, lol.

noblecron · September 22

Idk. The dungeon queue certainly feels less populated than normal. I also know a lot of streamers, including the stream team jumped to Gw2. I really hope Gw2 turns around and improves. Maybe with the new management we'll get that improvement.

tomofhyrule · September 22

Kappachi wrote: »

since ZOS other mmo project was cancelled & this is their sole focus, don't think we're entering maintenance mode any time soon. Sounds like 2026 could be a big year and that's why the last couple of patches were a bit lighter (48/47). Possibly the huge overland difficulty change next year?

I know a lot of people are really excited about vet overland, but I’ll caveat a few things here

Are they going to clear your characters’ quest content? If not, then it can only be done on a new character. Are ESO’s stories interesting enough to get people to want to redo them, even if the difficulty is more to their abilities?
Are players going to be satisfied with “difficulty” mainly in the form of self-nerfs and damage sponges as opposed to brand new mechanics, since that’s more likely the path they’ll go considering even during the AMA they said they didn’t want to split vet/standard playerbases
ESO needs a tentpole feature that will sell, and the current Season with Subclassing being basegame left a lot of people frustrated. Can they monetize overland difficulty? Will people buy it? Or would they need to make a different feature to monetize so overland difficulty could be free?

Kappachi · September 22

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

since ZOS other mmo project was cancelled & this is their sole focus, don't think we're entering maintenance mode any time soon. Sounds like 2026 could be a big year and that's why the last couple of patches were a bit lighter (48/47). Possibly the huge overland difficulty change next year?

I know a lot of people are really excited about vet overland, but I’ll caveat a few things here
Are they going to clear your characters’ quest content? If not, then it can only be done on a new character. Are ESO’s stories interesting enough to get people to want to redo them, even if the difficulty is more to their abilities?

Are players going to be satisfied with “difficulty” mainly in the form of self-nerfs and damage sponges as opposed to brand new mechanics, since that’s more likely the path they’ll go considering even during the AMA they said they didn’t want to split vet/standard playerbases

ESO needs a tentpole feature that will sell, and the current Season with Subclassing being basegame left a lot of people frustrated. Can they monetize overland difficulty? Will people buy it? Or would they need to make a different feature to monetize so overland difficulty could be free?

1. eso's stories absolutely are interesting enough and often have branching paths just like you'd expect from an ES game, I constantly roll new characters to try new options or just to do a "live another life" run, max char slots owned and still delete/remake very often.
2. even that is fine. that's all classic wow is and it's fun to go back to just for that slower paced gameplay, sounds like they'd make rewards better for overland vet content even if it's just a bit
3. they can use content pass for this. people who don't want to deal with inventory management by using addons still pick up eso+. you still need content passes for the zones even if the dungeons still seem to be buyable.

moderatelyfatman · 3:56AM

Kappachi wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

Im glad the game is well populated for you on PC EU. Speaking for PS EU and XBOX EU, i can only tell you its already on ALBION level.

Xbox NA is too populated for me or undersharded. I am picking up skyshards on a relatively new character and running into multiple other people while doing a delve makes the delve even more boring.

I do fully accept that the parts of the game I don't play may be underpopulated, but I agree with Sharp that there are too many people.

Come to PC NA and it is amazingly populated. Every zone/delve/etc has people running through it, there is no "underpopulated" zones. Any that are like a certain trial will fill when you throw it in GF.

Anyways any underpopulation stuff should be fixed soon too because they are adding cross-play in the future (finally).

The idea of it becoming "more boring" because you see people is strange considering this is an mmo, lol.

I've generally found the PCNA is usually well populated close to US prime time. Dungeon queues pop in a reasonable time and Cyrodiil is relatively full.

What's changed for me over the last 3 years is the population outside of US primetime: in Australian primetime there is a golden hour after reset (6pm my local time) where it is possible to queue up as on an undaunted pledge as a dps and get the on in a reasonable time (disregarding the current event). Otherwise, it can take 20+ minutes for that specific dungeon to pop.

I came back for Subclassing in June and for about 2-3 weeks and things were good but then we were back to the old wasteland.

Dock01 · 12:31PM

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

3–5 minute queues in an MMO aren’t healthy, man. There’s plenty of data showing the population is dropping. Don’t turn this into politics, it’s a game, not a campaign.Yeah, you do need more people for it to be fun. Waiting 10 minutes for a 4v4 BG is ridiculous. I’ve got a life, do they really think people actually love BG that much?

Veinblood1965 · 12:38PM

I usually just base my guess on the amount of vendor sales I get. Prior to about a year ago I'd log in and have sales all over the place. Then they dropped sharply and never recovered. Then after subclassing they are almost non-existent, maybe one or two sales a day and mostly junk sales. PS4 Na server.

I understand why also, subclassing is just too much. Not saying it's not a good idea on paper to have all sort of options but the GRIND just turns me off. Really two skill points per? While there are a lot of people that like it, there are a lot more where it was just the last straw. Sadly I signed up for the "season" and after the next release I am out.

Kappachi · 7:06PM

Dock01 wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.

I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD

And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.

I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.

That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.

3–5 minute queues in an MMO aren’t healthy, man. There’s plenty of data showing the population is dropping. Don’t turn this into politics, it’s a game, not a campaign.Yeah, you do need more people for it to be fun. Waiting 10 minutes for a 4v4 BG is ridiculous. I’ve got a life, do they really think people actually love BG that much?

if 3-5/10+ min queues aren't healthy then I guess WoW and FFXIV are dead too. GW2 might get a pass since it only uses a group finder? Long queue times are very normal actually and ESO is on the lower end of queue times of all the MMOs I've played for all of its content, meanwhile i've been in 30-60+ min queues in WoW/FFXIV regularly my queues never quite go past 5 mins if not instant in ESO, even for content like battlegrounds.

katanagirl1 · 7:14PM

I occasionally find something to hold onto that makes me feel like they might be listening to feedback and that the game will improve for me. The last comment about subclassing has pretty much made me give up hope now. The time for listening has passed, by the time they ever do, if they even do, it will be too late to turn the ship around.

I just try to get as much enjoyment out of the game as I can. All elements that I play in have been degraded though, PvE, PvP, housing. Every time I log in I remember how much better those things used to be.

Kappachi · 7:22PM

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I occasionally find something to hold onto that makes me feel like they might be listening to feedback and that the game will improve for me. The last comment about subclassing has pretty much made me give up hope now. The time for listening has passed, by the time they ever do, if they even do, it will be too late to turn the ship around.

I just try to get as much enjoyment out of the game as I can. All elements that I play in have been degraded though, PvE, PvP, housing. Every time I log in I remember how much better those things used to be.

Subclassing makes it so this is the only game where you can live that like anime fantasy isekai-style life with any kind of build you can imagine. The item sets+ mythic bonus and now subclassing/scribing allow you more build freedom than any mmo even though you're limited to 12 abilities. I see no issue with subclassing and hope they add even more ways to make bizarre builds.