Hello, lightning form? U47 Sorc discussion

FoJul · July 25

hoangdz wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I mean, you can literally do that build/playstyle with gravelord (that grants pen, crit rate, double vuln and diseased) instead of storm calling. In fact you could also swap out Herald of the tome for either assassination for more passive damage/healing, or restoring light for more defense + sustain because gravelord does the DPS work of both storm calling and herald, all in 1 line.

Edit:
Winter's embrace is another option to pair with this build if the base class is warden, since the piercing cold passive buffs boneyard (both DoT and synergy) by 15%, grants a burst heal in polar (or AoE in arctic), block mitigation, bonus chilled chance/damage, bonus armor, major maim and major resolve. It also brings Northern for some insane AoE pressure + major protection + snare to pair with the convergence burst if you don't like Colo potentially messing with convergence timings and slab/shim shield for protection against spec bows.

Boneyard becomes an 18k DoT with 12k synergy if using winters embrace + gravelord over herald + storm calling.
Back bar has 30k+ resistances + major maim and northern provides major protection while ticking for nearly 7k per second with a 40% snare to help keep enemies within the convergence AoE
The higher chilled proc also means minor maim uptime and potential minor brittle uptime as well for 5% more mitigation and 10% additional crit damage.
End Edit.

Note: Taking Restoring Light also gives infinite stamina sustain + healing for perma-blocking thanks to the necro corpses working with plars repentance ability.

The only thing GL doesn't give is Major resolve, which you can easily slot into heal soul, or as outlined above, replace herald with restoring light.

Boneyard gives self synergy (same as flood) + guaranteed minor vuln (buffs all damage)
Colossus is bigger boneyard that inflicts major vuln
+20% crit chance in execute (easier to crit to finish and proc Occult Overload)
+3k pen naturally (better into tankier foes)
Blast Bones inflicts guaranteed diseased status (AoE proc that also reduces enemies healing)

It's the exact same combo, just slightly different cast order (BB replaces tentacles and is cast before boneyard instead of after):

Fissure -> BB -> Boneyard (or Colo or both) to proc dark con + Occult

In fact, here's a quick build

Note: these stats are without balorgh proc, solo play (no outside buffs/debuffs) and sustain values don't take into account rune or netch values, putting both mag/stam sustain values closer to 2k than the shown ~1500
Wings can be back bar with netch front bar, this layout is just to show 2 AC abilities front bar for +10% crit damage front bar + 1 back bar to keep the +20% recoveries on both bars.

Front bar empty slot is complete flex slot, spin to win is an option for finishing tankier enemies, or deadly cloak for a nice DoT + Major evasion + good chance to proc sundered status or a scribed ability for warden charm.
Back bar empty slot is heal soul (heal + warden script or resource return or HoT + Vitality or Prophecy/savagery)
Some tooltips:
Convergence is 11k base pre-balorgh
DF is 11k/15k with double breach
boneyard is 9.5k synergy + 15k DoT
BB is 15k (+ guaranteed diseased status proc)
Colo is 13k per smash (~40k total)

it's a near 40% crit rate on foes below 33% health (50% crit rate if running prophecy/savagery on heal soul)
5.2k weapon/spell damage before balorgh
11k pen before balorgh
resistances are a little low, but 3k crit resist + minor evasion (and potentially major evasion if running deadly cloak), 2 cleanses, snare immunity + lots of speed and lots of healing over time more than makes up for this.

That posted build is really nothing unique to storm calling, especially since they're not using streak and can be made even stronger by dropping storm calling for gravelord and potentially dropping Herald as well since GL more than fills the burst that storm calling + herald is giving.

Grave Lord does not offer the same healing utility as Crit Surge, nor mobility as Hurricane unfortunately. Storm Calling fits in that build so well because Hurricane + Surge give you all the survivability you need while going on offense. Grave Lord or Herald cannot do that.

This build looks hella familiar

ZhuJiuyin · July 25

hoangdz wrote: »

I saw someone say buff the Energized passive to 15% damage... That is an insane buff if you consider the fact that Storm Calling already has 3 damage lines.

I only showed this video because I wanted to show that Storm Calling is a very good line and has a place in many builds, meta or off meta. It does not need to be buffed at all.

I agree that 15% is a bit too much, but 10% is reasonable. Especially since Shock Damage is one of the weakest elements.
This was mainly to prevent sorc-pets from being too powerful in the past, but now with subclassing, everyone's dps has been improved, so it's time to adjust the power of Shock Damage.

Additional: 10% includes Physical Damage, not just Shock Damage, because Physical Damage is also part of Sorc damage, such as Hurricane and Bound Armaments. And Sundered is really good. Therefore, raising Energized to 15% will make Physical Damage too strong, but if Physical Damage is only maintained at 5%, and Shock Damage is increased by 15%, it seems a bit discriminatory, so I think it is reasonable to compromise and raise Energized to 10%.

madmufffin · July 25

hoangdz wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

I'm pretty confident 10% more shock damage isn't going to add anything crazy to sorc's pvp kit given how weak the shock spells are and how out of meta magsorc is

So we’re just gonna ignore that Shocking Soul exists? Lol? In my PvP builds I can get Shocking Soul tooltips to be as high as Dizzying Swing, and that’s just with the 5% shock and physical bonus. Let’s not downplay it now. This is exactly why we got U41 Sorc in the first place.

And it doing 10% more damage isn't going to fundamentally break the game or even put it on parity with acuity builds. It will however at least make it so other skills could maybe be usable in PVE, but even then may not because shock damage skills all suck. If shocking soul was actually a good skill, magsorc wouldn't be god awful right now.

Why are you comparing shock damage with acuity builds? 1 is a damage type, while the other is a specific setup. If you want to compare that, at least compare it with other damage types.

Corrosive DK with Deep Breath + Flame Contingency + Fossilize + Whip can 1 shot people in an acuity setup. Does that mean Flame damage is broken? Did you know you can also achieve almost the same thing with Conduit synergy + Shock Contingency + Curse/Cwep + Spin2win in PvP?

Shocking Soul IS a good skill. It has the same base tooltip as Elemental Weapon, and can be improved with class mastery or a DoT, and can also apply Major Defile/Maim/Cowardice/Vitality/etc. In PvP it is one of the best ranged spammables for magsorc. If I give it another 10% extra damage, then it’s literally going to have a higher tooltip than Dizzying Swing, which is already one of the hardest hitting spammables in the game, while being instant cast and having a 22m range. I would slot that instantly on my melee Sorc if that was the case.

Acuity is the gold standard of PVP right now. Competing with it is the measuring stick pretty much all play is up against. If shocking soul was effective and hitting like dizzying without building heavily into it, mag sorc wouldn't be doggers right now.

madmufffin · July 25

hoangdz wrote: »

Look up Pelican’s latest video for example:

https://youtu.be/N5X3NX-YGuQ?si=RpiqhgPBgY2cCeNg

Man is using Storm/Animal/Herald on a Dark Convergence/Rallying Cry bomb build and 1vXing with it. His combo is literally just this:

Fissure > DW ult > Lightning Flood to proc Convergence > Lighting Flood synergy > Tentacles > Occult Overload CP

Literally just an AoE nuker combo, but the core idea behind it is Dark Convergence pulls everyone in, then burst them down with Fissure + LF synergy + Tentacle execute + Occult Overload CP. Storm Calling is doing half of the work here (procs Dark Convergence and adds 9-11k AoE burst on top of 2 decent AoE DoTs, while also providing 3 strong damage passives). In fact, I would argue that Storm Calling is the main reason this build even functions at all.

This is an off meta build, but it works and from the looks of it, I could argue that it’s even better than meta builds for Cyrodiil lol. I have yet to see a bomb build survive like a 1vX build while retaining its bomb potential. It simply didn’t exist until this patch (mostly due to subclassing)

So if you’re gonna ask for damage buffs to Sorc, do be aware of hidden metas like this.

I can't say for certain without a cmx or recap on it, but I'd guess shock damage is doing at most 25% damage on this combo. If you add 10% shock damage to the Energized passive that's a monstrous 2.5% increase in damage done to this combo, which isn't even the equivalent of a pen line on a set.

madmufffin · July 25

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

I saw someone say buff the Energized passive to 15% damage... That is an insane buff if you consider the fact that Storm Calling already has 3 damage lines.

I only showed this video because I wanted to show that Storm Calling is a very good line and has a place in many builds, meta or off meta. It does not need to be buffed at all.

I agree that 15% is a bit too much, but 10% is reasonable. Especially since Shock Damage is one of the weakest elements.
This was mainly to prevent sorc-pets from being too powerful in the past, but now with subclassing, everyone's dps has been improved, so it's time to adjust the power of Shock Damage.

Additional: 10% includes Physical Damage, not just Shock Damage, because Physical Damage is also part of Sorc damage, such as Hurricane and Bound Armaments. And Sundered is really good. Therefore, raising Energized to 15% will make Physical Damage too strong, but if Physical Damage is only maintained at 5%, and Shock Damage is increased by 15%, it seems a bit discriminatory, so I think it is reasonable to compromise and raise Energized to 10%.

The proposal was to leave physical at 5% since it's such a common and strong damage type and up the shock component to 15% to have parity with the frost and flame buffs in Winter's and Ardent.

universal_wrath · July 25

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Sorc's getting % more damage for class skills would also be wonderfully broken

The buff was %weapon or spell damage before. Aedric spear already has one passive grant 6% weapon/spell damage and 6% resists. So something like 3% weapon damage per skill assuming 3 skills slotted at most on one bar isn't too crazy

I want all class skills, which would be like 15% lol

The bonus is great but the skills are bad, so in reality you are just buffing subpar skills to make them usable.

In an ideal world, lightning flood gets made usable and one of the mage's morphs isn't a delayed burst skill so they aren't worthless in 99% of scenarios. Personally I'd also advocate for crystal shards being swapped with surge for a spammable option, but I don't see that happening, especially given the approach they've taken with blood magic.

No I think Crystal being on dark magic makes far more sense otherwise there is no main draw to that skill line. Frags pairs so well with the shield and timed burst magsorc playstyle.

Crit surge plays into the stormcalling playstyle of being aggressive with an In and Out mobility playstyle. I am still not sure about lightning flood because a ground placed just doesn't seem to fit with the whole mobility concept. I'm still thinking of other skill ideas.

Looking at your changes of making one of the mage's morphs act like crystal weapon does now would be sufficient. Storm calling just needs something that can be usable as a spammable in some capacity. Sorc not having a real class spammable is pretty dumb.

Well stormcalling doesn't need a spammable. That was the point of the %phys and shock damage passive. That passive is supposed to enable and work with weapon skills. For example the longstanding Dizzy swing stamsorc playstyle that has been a thing since IC released. Or playing into overload shockstaff for example which has come and gone with patches.

Other classes have better passives that directly buff their class spammables. Having sorc being the only class that needs to rely on non-class spammable leaves it behind other classes. I'm still confused as to why crystal fragment is still an interuptable channel skill, while it is roughly 5% damage difference from other spammables with some instances range spammable having higher tooltips. You can have other classes use other generic spammables and still most of them will perform better than sorc.

If not skills, sorcerer needs atleast better skills to support existing play styles or over all class skills.

MincMincMinc · July 28

universal_wrath wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Sorc's getting % more damage for class skills would also be wonderfully broken

The buff was %weapon or spell damage before. Aedric spear already has one passive grant 6% weapon/spell damage and 6% resists. So something like 3% weapon damage per skill assuming 3 skills slotted at most on one bar isn't too crazy

I want all class skills, which would be like 15% lol

The bonus is great but the skills are bad, so in reality you are just buffing subpar skills to make them usable.

In an ideal world, lightning flood gets made usable and one of the mage's morphs isn't a delayed burst skill so they aren't worthless in 99% of scenarios. Personally I'd also advocate for crystal shards being swapped with surge for a spammable option, but I don't see that happening, especially given the approach they've taken with blood magic.

No I think Crystal being on dark magic makes far more sense otherwise there is no main draw to that skill line. Frags pairs so well with the shield and timed burst magsorc playstyle.

Crit surge plays into the stormcalling playstyle of being aggressive with an In and Out mobility playstyle. I am still not sure about lightning flood because a ground placed just doesn't seem to fit with the whole mobility concept. I'm still thinking of other skill ideas.

Looking at your changes of making one of the mage's morphs act like crystal weapon does now would be sufficient. Storm calling just needs something that can be usable as a spammable in some capacity. Sorc not having a real class spammable is pretty dumb.

Well stormcalling doesn't need a spammable. That was the point of the %phys and shock damage passive. That passive is supposed to enable and work with weapon skills. For example the longstanding Dizzy swing stamsorc playstyle that has been a thing since IC released. Or playing into overload shockstaff for example which has come and gone with patches.

If not skills, sorcerer needs atleast better skills to support existing play styles or over all class skills.

Right this was the main discussion before. How to consolidate a class like sorc to work with subclassing. Where currently it was never designed to be pie cut up into subclasses. Dark magic and Daedric host skills that the other needs or should have. Again refer to the first post of the thread for how I reorganized sorc skill lines. Numbers really don't matter as much as people want to get upset over simple values. Discussion wise it is better to focus on the broader reorganization of the skill lines to be functional.

Turtle_Bot · July 29

hoangdz wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The main issue with running Shocking Soul is losing access to the best burst heal in the game, Heal Soul, which on its own is a massive detriment to build crafting because now you are forced to find a replacement burst heal somewhere else and there just isn't one available on a DPS skill line (for good reason)

You get that with Dark Magic. I run Vibrant Shroud on my pure stamsorc and I will run that over Healing Soul any day. Dark Magic is the sole reason why I can play my pure Sorc with 1k regen of each and using Sugar Skull as food. This is strictly a Sorc advantage and ZOS should have gone further into that route.

What ZOS should have done instead with this class is:

- Remove the crit damage condition on Crit Surge and allow it to scale with max offensive stats (coefficient should not make the tooltip value higher than its live version), or keep the fixed value but slightly reduce it to around 2.5k. This turns the heal into a guaranteed 100% proc chance like Leeching Strikes, but more potent.
- Give us back the 10% max stam/magicka buff when not having a pet active.
- Remove the proc condition for the 10% max stam/mag passive on Blood Magic altogether.

Dark Magic is not a "DPS" line though, it's a sustain/tank line that happens to have the class spammable + passive for the class's unique minor named buff jammed into it.

This also goes back to what I said on the other thread about top tier players being the only ones who get to see this upside to lines like Dark Magic or pre-U46 NB (in PvE). Less than 1% of players can truly actualize the power of the line (or class) because the effort to reward ratio is too high for the average player.

For what ZOS should have done, I agree that all 3 of these would be fine (well fine in terms of Sorcerer as a class, still doesn't solve the issues shock damage has in general in this game).

hoangdz wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I mean, you can literally do that build/playstyle with gravelord (that grants pen, crit rate, double vuln and diseased) instead of storm calling. In fact you could also swap out Herald of the tome for either assassination for more passive damage/healing, or restoring light for more defense + sustain because gravelord does the DPS work of both storm calling and herald, all in 1 line.

Edit:
Winter's embrace is another option to pair with this build if the base class is warden, since the piercing cold passive buffs boneyard (both DoT and synergy) by 15%, grants a burst heal in polar (or AoE in arctic), block mitigation, bonus chilled chance/damage, bonus armor, major maim and major resolve. It also brings Northern for some insane AoE pressure + major protection + snare to pair with the convergence burst if you don't like Colo potentially messing with convergence timings and slab/shim shield for protection against spec bows.

Boneyard becomes an 18k DoT with 12k synergy if using winters embrace + gravelord over herald + storm calling.
Back bar has 30k+ resistances + major maim and northern provides major protection while ticking for nearly 7k per second with a 40% snare to help keep enemies within the convergence AoE
The higher chilled proc also means minor maim uptime and potential minor brittle uptime as well for 5% more mitigation and 10% additional crit damage.
End Edit.

Note: Taking Restoring Light also gives infinite stamina sustain + healing for perma-blocking thanks to the necro corpses working with plars repentance ability.

The only thing GL doesn't give is Major resolve, which you can easily slot into heal soul, or as outlined above, replace herald with restoring light.

Boneyard gives self synergy (same as flood) + guaranteed minor vuln (buffs all damage)
Colossus is bigger boneyard that inflicts major vuln
+20% crit chance in execute (easier to crit to finish and proc Occult Overload)
+3k pen naturally (better into tankier foes)
Blast Bones inflicts guaranteed diseased status (AoE proc that also reduces enemies healing)

It's the exact same combo, just slightly different cast order (BB replaces tentacles and is cast before boneyard instead of after):

Fissure -> BB -> Boneyard (or Colo or both) to proc dark con + Occult

In fact, here's a quick build

Note: these stats are without balorgh proc, solo play (no outside buffs/debuffs) and sustain values don't take into account rune or netch values, putting both mag/stam sustain values closer to 2k than the shown ~1500
Wings can be back bar with netch front bar, this layout is just to show 2 AC abilities front bar for +10% crit damage front bar + 1 back bar to keep the +20% recoveries on both bars.

Front bar empty slot is complete flex slot, spin to win is an option for finishing tankier enemies, or deadly cloak for a nice DoT + Major evasion + good chance to proc sundered status or a scribed ability for warden charm.
Back bar empty slot is heal soul (heal + warden script or resource return or HoT + Vitality or Prophecy/savagery)
Some tooltips:
Convergence is 11k base pre-balorgh
DF is 11k/15k with double breach
boneyard is 9.5k synergy + 15k DoT
BB is 15k (+ guaranteed diseased status proc)
Colo is 13k per smash (~40k total)

it's a near 40% crit rate on foes below 33% health (50% crit rate if running prophecy/savagery on heal soul)
5.2k weapon/spell damage before balorgh
11k pen before balorgh
resistances are a little low, but 3k crit resist + minor evasion (and potentially major evasion if running deadly cloak), 2 cleanses, snare immunity + lots of speed and lots of healing over time more than makes up for this.

That posted build is really nothing unique to storm calling, especially since they're not using streak and can be made even stronger by dropping storm calling for gravelord and potentially dropping Herald as well since GL more than fills the burst that storm calling + herald is giving.

Grave Lord does not offer the same healing utility as Crit Surge, nor mobility as Hurricane unfortunately. Storm Calling fits in that build so well because Hurricane + Surge give you all the survivability you need while going on offense. Grave Lord or Herald cannot do that.

But this goes back to my point, Gravelord offers all of the offense tools that Herald + Storm Calling is giving that build, freeing up an entire skill line to either lean more into the damage (aedric/assassination), or add a dedicated defensive line (restoring light) for even better survivability or even a line that's a mix of both (winters embrace).

Comparatively: slotting GL, you lose the weapon/spell damage, small sustain, and % damage from storm calling passives, but you gain 3k pen and +20% crit chance on targets under 33% health and unique % bonus to DoTs. The weapon/spell damage can be easily replaced by slotting nirn front bar over sharpened and the percent damage falls off from being meaningful on targets below 60% anyway, while the massive crit chance gives the ability to more reliably finish off targets that are low from the initial burst.

Blast bones (aside from pathing issues) more than fills the role of tentacular and boneyard fills the role of flood, right down to the self-synergy for the additional off-GCD burst.

Netch is already providing major brut/sorc, but also grants lots of sustain and a free cleanse + unique % damage done modifier and wings already covers major expedition + snare removal + minor evasion.

This leaves Major resolve + healing over time to fill. Restoring Light fills those gaps and more, Winters Embrace does too, but as a mix of offense + defense (boneyard is frost damage), then there's the option of an external source of Major resolve and running something like aedric spear for an extremely strong mix of offense + defense from the passives and proc effects like berserk, force, (both) protections, unique armor + damage buffs, burning light etc. This final option lacks healing over time, but provides an insane amount of additional burst, mitigation and pressure.

The only thing that none of these lines grant is Streak, but this build isn't even using Streak, so that's a non-factor.

Also, something that I didn't mention before was Restoring Light's Synergy with Gravelord, where GL creates enough corpses that running repentance is actually reliable as a heal/sustain skill and it's free to cast with zero cast time.

Turtle_Bot · July 29

madmufffin wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

I saw someone say buff the Energized passive to 15% damage... That is an insane buff if you consider the fact that Storm Calling already has 3 damage lines.

I only showed this video because I wanted to show that Storm Calling is a very good line and has a place in many builds, meta or off meta. It does not need to be buffed at all.

I agree that 15% is a bit too much, but 10% is reasonable. Especially since Shock Damage is one of the weakest elements.
This was mainly to prevent sorc-pets from being too powerful in the past, but now with subclassing, everyone's dps has been improved, so it's time to adjust the power of Shock Damage.

Additional: 10% includes Physical Damage, not just Shock Damage, because Physical Damage is also part of Sorc damage, such as Hurricane and Bound Armaments. And Sundered is really good. Therefore, raising Energized to 15% will make Physical Damage too strong, but if Physical Damage is only maintained at 5%, and Shock Damage is increased by 15%, it seems a bit discriminatory, so I think it is reasonable to compromise and raise Energized to 10%.

The proposal was to leave physical at 5% since it's such a common and strong damage type and up the shock component to 15% to have parity with the frost and flame buffs in Winter's and Ardent.

The addition to this proposal would be to also only have it temporary (like ZOS stated for the increase to frost damage in winters embrace) while ZOS works on creating actual good shock skills to fill out a functional shock damage build alongside shocking soul.

MincMincMinc · July 29

Honestly my next big fear is that subclassing pushes zos to do a massive pass on all of the skill lines before addressing the core parts of the game first. I'd imagine they would wait to mess with LIVE skills until the have more definitive answers from vengeance.

Mundus need to be reworked
Food
Enchants
CP is relatively fine
Traits
Racials
Status Effects
Stuns and cc
ETC.

Not only do these have to be reworked, but in totality balanced. Should a mundus be worth a 5 piece bonus? Should food be worth 2x 5 piece bonus.....maybe 1.5x 5 piece bonuses? How do all of these compare to active skill output from the player? Should status effect procs be more effective than actual active player input? Should they account for 10% or 30% of a builds output?

This is why I was saying that the actual numbers don't matter. Simply focusing on the reorganizing aspect to maintain longstanding playstyles is more important. We lost half the playstyles with subclassing simply because they relied on more than 1 skill line from a class.

madmufffin · July 29

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Honestly my next big fear is that subclassing pushes zos to do a massive pass on all of the skill lines before addressing the core parts of the game first. I'd imagine they would wait to mess with LIVE skills until the have more definitive answers from vengeance.
Mundus need to be reworked

Food

Enchants

CP is relatively fine

Traits

Racials

Status Effects

Stuns and cc

ETC.

Not only do these have to be reworked, but in totality balanced. Should a mundus be worth a 5 piece bonus? Should food be worth 2x 5 piece bonus.....maybe 1.5x 5 piece bonuses? How do all of these compare to active skill output from the player? Should status effect procs be more effective than actual active player input? Should they account for 10% or 30% of a builds output?

This is why I was saying that the actual numbers don't matter. Simply focusing on the reorganizing aspect to maintain longstanding playstyles is more important. We lost half the playstyles with subclassing simply because they relied on more than 1 skill line from a class.

Whoa whoa whoa don't be taking my food and mundus buffs from me. You can tune them down in Cyro, but we suffered enough trying to get max stats up before the base value change. I don't want to go back to having 25k stats.

gc0018 · July 31

Remove the physical damage buff from passive and increase the passive lighting damage to 15% and change all the mage physical damage into lighting.

MashmalloMan · July 31

gc0018 wrote: »

Remove the physical damage buff from passive and increase the passive lighting damage to 15% and change all the mage physical damage into lighting.

Hard disagree. Maybe think about other playstyles other than your own.

Plus. DK manages to have a strong poison/flame/dot identity, why would Sorc need to give up an element they had since day one? It comes down to interesting passives that may be strong, but niche, coupled with good skills.

Lightning Splash and Mage's Fury suck.

Amplitude, while strong, is boring and a 1 size fits all. It doesn't hold a candle to how fun Implosion was.

Energized at 5% feels negligible at best, all dual element passives should be at least 8%, with single elements like Warden's at 15%.

My biggest gripe is no bonus to sundered/concussed which DK and Warden have, add something like that, maybe rework Amplitude to something more interesting and element specific, maybe even concuss/sunder status on Splash, Fury, or Surge, and the Storm playstyle fantasy would feel more enjoyable at base..

Still need more shock skills, but that requires more classes, weapons, or scribing options. Right now it's extremely limiting with only Storm Calling, Daedric Summoning, and Grave Lord. Over half of those non Storm Calling skills are pets too.

daemondamian · August 1

Reading through this thread it's glaringly obvious that separating PVE from PVP could allow for decent PVE sorc skills and passives without it affecting & 'breaking' PVP.

Either specific skills could say "against monsters" or "reduced by 50% when battle spirit is active" & or each skill could have a PVE morph & a PVP morph.

Why can't, or won't, they do this?

MincMincMinc · August 1

daemondamian wrote: »

Reading through this thread it's glaringly obvious that separating PVE from PVP could allow for decent PVE sorc skills and passives without it affecting & 'breaking' PVP.

Either specific skills could say "against monsters" or "reduced by 50% when battle spirit is active" & or each skill could have a PVE morph & a PVP morph.

Why can't, or won't, they do this?

They had explained before that they want to get rid of battlespirit with the vengeance test to eliminate a blanket layer of calculations, which would only help performance. Too many people focus on the little picture when it comes to vengeance though and keep calling for it to be stopped because of silly reasons like "they haven't recoded every skill and system in the game within a month so we should stop."

I can only dream that a vengeance split would get them to finally implement system changes to help the largescale fights perform better. Like going back to effects not stacking. Or less smart healing aoes instead of just single targets. Or hots self purging if they tick at max hp.

Not that I want to splinter off to rehash those points, but the implementation of pvp specific rules may make it easier for skill design involving pve and pvp.

daemondamian · August 2

MincMincMinc wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

Reading through this thread it's glaringly obvious that separating PVE from PVP could allow for decent PVE sorc skills and passives without it affecting & 'breaking' PVP.

Either specific skills could say "against monsters" or "reduced by 50% when battle spirit is active" & or each skill could have a PVE morph & a PVP morph.

Why can't, or won't, they do this?

They had explained before that they want to get rid of battlespirit with the vengeance test to eliminate a blanket layer of calculations, which would only help performance. Too many people focus on the little picture when it comes to vengeance though and keep calling for it to be stopped because of silly reasons like "they haven't recoded every skill and system in the game within a month so we should stop."

I can only dream that a vengeance split would get them to finally implement system changes to help the largescale fights perform better. Like going back to effects not stacking. Or less smart healing aoes instead of just single targets. Or hots self purging if they tick at max hp.

Not that I want to splinter off to rehash those points, but the implementation of pvp specific rules may make it easier for skill design involving pve and pvp.

Thankyou for clarification on why battle spirit isn't an option that should or would be focused on to separate skills use, effectiveness etc between PVE and PVP.