SilverBride wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I if i hate doing PVP for transmute stones and daily battlegrounds quests, as well as tales of tribute. Can I get an assistant to do those for me as well? Or chapter dailies?

We aren't asking for an assistant to do our daily writs to earn surveys. We already did the work. We just want an assistant to now gather the items we already earned.

I disagree. You did a crafting writ and was rewarded for that writ with gold and maybe a piece of armor or something. The survey is a new task with it's own reward. If an antiquity lead drops while you are running around killing skeevers you have to go dig up that lead. You don't get to have an assistant do it because you took the trouble to kill a skeever.

SilverBride wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I if i hate doing PVP for transmute stones and daily battlegrounds quests, as well as tales of tribute. Can I get an assistant to do those for me as well? Or chapter dailies?

We aren't asking for an assistant to do our daily writs to earn surveys. We already did the work. We just want an assistant to now gather the items we already earned.

I disagree. You did a crafting writ and was rewarded for that writ with gold and maybe a piece of armor or something. The survey is a new task with it's own reward. If an antiquity lead drops while you are running around killing skeevers you have to go dig up that lead. You don't get to have an assistant do it because you took the trouble to kill a skeever.

Surveys are rewards from doing writs, not a separate new task. The only way to get surveys is from writ turn ins.

Leads are not objects we receive that we need to store if we don't get to them right away like surveys are. Surveys either have to be used or take up space in our inventory.

We already have hirelings that bring us crafting materials every day if we put the skill points into that feature. Why is it ok for them to gather for us, but not an assistent for surveys?

If surveys were simply rewards, the writs would instead just drop a set random range of mats directly into your inventory. That it requires the player to actively go out and have to harvest and collect the spoils is intentional by design.

Just like only a couple/few weeks ago when this subject was brought up for the umpteenth time.. the whole notion of an assistant to do surveys on behalf of the playter is nothing more than yet another call for getting more for less effort.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This is a video game, not a job. Surveys offer no gameplay or thought. They are cookie clicker stuff designed to waste time and be a chore that feels too rewarding too pass up so that players spend time in the game. They expect it to clog up people's inventories because they know that a lot of people aren't going to enjoy doing it and won't want to do it everyday. This type of design is not something players should feel obligated to do to keep up with the player market.

I don't think the argument of "do your chores" is a particularly good argument for something that is supposed to be fun.

High yield nodes offer 3-4 times the yield of normal resource nodes. Surveys provide 6 high yield nodes per survey.

Going out and harvesting normal resource nodes would constitute "doing your chores". Going out and completing 1 survey instead of tracking down and harvesting 18 -24 individual resource nodes is already one heck of a time saver. Players saving them up and clogging their inventories is a player generated issue (I'm one of said players that does this), which I seriously doubt was intentional in its design.

What is intentional by design is generating the time sink required to travel to a survey location and click a button six times. Despite a players general distaste for time sinks, it's an important aspect of game design that can't be ignored. Every successful game utilizes time sinks, and survey reports act to counterbalance a portion of the time sinks that are lost once crafting skills are mastered. And in this particular case, it's actually merely an optional time sink. Is it boring work? Sure. Is it a necessary evil? Many times, it really is.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This is a video game, not a job. Surveys offer no gameplay or thought.

Like treasure maps,. they require a bit of figuring out, though they are usually easier because they provide a general location. To me they are like "hidden picture" puzzles, which I love, and they do require some thought.

SilverBride wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I if i hate doing PVP for transmute stones and daily battlegrounds quests, as well as tales of tribute. Can I get an assistant to do those for me as well? Or chapter dailies?

We aren't asking for an assistant to do our daily writs to earn surveys. We already did the work. We just want an assistant to now gather the items we already earned.

I disagree. You did a crafting writ and was rewarded for that writ with gold and maybe a piece of armor or something. The survey is a new task with it's own reward. If an antiquity lead drops while you are running around killing skeevers you have to go dig up that lead. You don't get to have an assistant do it because you took the trouble to kill a skeever.

Surveys are rewards from doing writs, not a separate new task. The only way to get surveys is from writ turn ins.

Leads are not objects we receive that we need to store if we don't get to them right away like surveys are. Surveys either have to be used or take up space in our inventory.

We already have hirelings that bring us crafting materials every day if we put the skill points into that feature. Why is it ok for them to gather for us, but not an assistent for surveys?

To get the assistant you have to have the skill points. That means venturing out into the world and collecting sky shards. Your reward for putting points in is a few (very few) materials when you log in. Those assistants create a very small incentive for you to log in each day. There are some other things in the game that give us incentive to log in each day.
When you log in maybe you decide to do the daily writs. That is interacting with the game and you are rewarded. One of those rewards is a survey that can give even more rewards if you farther participate in the game. Those surveys get players to go to zones they might otherwise not visit near as often.
The assistants reward you for logging in and the surveys reward you for going out into zones and harvesting. Both provide crafting materials but that is where the similarities end. You are rewarded for different activities.

Why do people care where other players spend their time? Does it matter to you that you see a player standing over a spot idle for a few seconds before porting/riding away?

Also, yes — this Assistant should also handle Treasure Maps located in Cyrodiil; just use the Assistant outside of Cyrodiil. Weird that Cyrodiil has no Surveys but has Treasure Maps. Regardless, having to detour from the current objective to go collect loot (or worse, be a PvE player entering Cyrodiil without the intention to PvP) only serves to distract from what should be the primary focus of Cyrodiil.

Thanks to everyone fighting the good fight against free loot.

It's sad some players think harvesting is obsolete gameplay, don't care about the value of the activity to those who do enjoy harvesting, and don't care at all about the player economy or meaningful upgrades. Because a "survey assistant" would ruin all of those things.

They seem to think it's just find to incentivize grinding writs for free upgrade mats, despite it being terrible gameplay. But I don't think these players care about gameplay if they think it's just fine to go in a circle pressing E on crafting stations to get free loot. I think they just care about getting endless loot.

Here's a game they might enjoy: http://progressquest.com/

What's actually broken here is addons trivializing crafting writs which has created the perceived issue of players having too many surveys. I think ZOS needs to scrap the entire writ system and redesign it from scratch because it's just flat out broken.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Why do people care where other players spend their time? Does it matter to you that you see a player standing over a spot idle for a few seconds before porting/riding away?

Because our activities don't exist in a vacuum in this shared game world. The influx of mats from what is proposed here would affect harvesting, the player economy and the upgrade system. Those might represent tedium to you, but those are actual FEATURES that were included in the game because many players into RPGs enjoy them.

Mats are already dirt cheap on my server. And the people who do surveys are already the ones not buying mats because they have plenty. So, I doubt there'd be some great harm to the economy. Like a stack of refined metal is like 2k coins.

I hate surveys because I actually care about gameplay. Surveys are just cookie clicker mindless busywork.

People on console have had no add-ons for most of this game's lifespan and yet they clog up our inventory just the same. So the idea that it's add-on fault that tons of people find them boring and not that they simply don't offer anything in the way of engaging gameplay is demonstrably untrue. Perceptions that are the same on both console and PC didn't come from add-ons because console has barely had any time with add-ons.

Like the developers literally had to spend time developing new tech because surveys are so awful to do that they are clogging tons and tons of players inventory space. Literally just wasting valuable server resource because people don't want to do them but they're too valuable to trash since people want to be able to upgrade their gear, craft sets or just do more writs for coin.

I don't see why this game needs to be held back by outdated design from 15 years ago.

Desiato wrote: »

I'm talking about legendary upgrade mats.

Legendary mats are also on the floor on console.

The devs themselves have had to engineer solutions to nobody doing surveys so it is not just my opinion that they are a boring chore to collect. It is a massive amount of people's opinions.

Events already crashed the mat market. Mats as a whole are dirt cheap. The only mats that aren't are furniture mats and those don't come from surveys.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Legendary mats are also on the floor on console.

Not compared to what they would be if this was implemented. They still have decent enough value on PC, and our prices are traditionally lower than on console. Especially dreugh wax.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The devs themselves have had to engineer solutions to nobody doing surveys so it is not just my opinion that they are a boring chore to collect. It is a massive amount of people's opinions.

The problem isn't surveys themselves. it is the automation of addons that has resulted in an inventory problem that they have to address for back end server health.

Crafting writs are so profitable, especially during the jubilee when players get gift boxes from them, that it has caused an incredible accumulation of surveys that isn't practical for many players to collect.

That doesn't mean we should completely trash the harvesting economy and nullify the value of the upgrade system.

Sorry, but pressing E on a crafting station a few times and turning in quests, a process that can take less than a minute for all writs per character shouldn't be as rewarding as it is without even considering surveys. It's absurd that anyone would defend it. It is hideous gameplay. It is literally Progress Quest.

Outside of all other considerations, it would be a mistake for ZOS to further incentivize the activity. In MMOs, players are known for engaging in inherently dreadful activities when the reward is too good to ignore. We see this during every gift box event. ZOS should not incentivize automated crafting writs even more for this reason alone. It will result in players becoming burnt out from and resentful of the activity.

The only reason surveys are seen in such a negative light is because it has become too easy to get them. If not for addons, they'd still be a pleasant surprise for many players.

Desiato wrote: »

Surveys were intended to be a nice reward for players levelling crafting. Crafting writs are intended to help players level crafting. They were never intended to be a daily activity for the average enthusiast like they've become thanks to automation addons. Players aren't overwhelmed with surveys by the design of the game, but rather it is a byproduct of automation.

I've never seen anything that indicates that daily writs and surveys are just for leveling crafting. They are a good source of income at max crafting level, and even with add-ons to make the process quicker they still take a lot of time.

Gathering surveys is tedious and time consuming. Not everyone has hours to play every day and would prefer to spend what time they do have on enjoyable activities rather than chores.

SilverBride wrote: »

Gathering surveys is tedious and time consuming. Not everyone has hours to play every day and would prefer to spend what time they do have on enjoyable activities rather than chores.

Even less so these days when there are so many other incredibly time-consuming activities which aren't all that enjoyable either. Sometimes I wonder if we're not supposed to actually do any playing because we spend so much time in "side activities".

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Surveys cut down on "the chores", they don't add to them. Without the surveys the player would instead have to go out and search on foot, and compete with other players, for 18 - 24 individual resource nodes to get the same amount of resources as guaranteed by one survey report.

And here's the beauty of survey reports.. there's no time limit. You can save them to do later at your own leisure. Likening the task of collecting surveys as "chores" would imply it's a routine task that needs to be completed on a regular basis. That's not at all true with surveys. They're optional, and you can do them as needed when the mood suits.

I do every survey the same day I get them and do not let them stack up to do later. I can't think of much worse than having to spend hours catching up on a stack of these.

I also really hate farming and do not do it ever. I actively trade so I can afford to purchase the things I need, rather than spending time doing something I dislike. And gathering surveys feels very much like farming.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I could also make a joke here about how the “main activities” like questing have gotten so formulaic and poorly written that the “side activities” like farming mats are actually more entertaining…

This is a fact. Quests are objectively more tedious.

There is so much irony in this thread. Questers who grind automated crafting writs complaining surveys are tedious.....

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Gathering surveys is tedious and time consuming. Not everyone has hours to play every day and would prefer to spend what time they do have on enjoyable activities rather than chores.

If it's not worth it to you, then don't do them. The economy will thank you.

They are necessary because they bring in income so I can afford the things I enjoy.

So what you're saying is they're currently worth the effort to you.......... That doesn't sound like something that requires a solution.

SilverBride wrote: »

As far as the economy, holding on to surveys just keeps the supply down, thus raising the prices. If we had an assistant then more players would do their surveys which would increase the supply and lower the prices.

Correct. And the irony here is that as a player that earns an income from surveys, your income would drop to the floor if they ever implemented a survey assistant.

We've heard from players who have hundreds or even thousands of surveys saved in previous threads. It's very common on PC as a result of writ automation. So imagine what that would do to the supply of the things you earn an income from.

Furthermore, because it would make crafting writs MUCH more profitable for players unwilling to spend the time collecting surveys, there would be more people doing crafting writs and more often. Also increasing supply, and also affecting your income.

I also want you to consider the other players it would impact. Players who enjoy non-survey harvesting and earn an income from it who would also be affected. You are so concerned about your income, should you not also show them some concern as well? It would also affect the trading community because a huge part of it is legendary commodity trading.